Building for Health

And we want to make sure that your listeners are getting the most appropriate information, the most actionable information that they can take right now and do something with.

Andy, thank you so much for being here today. Really excited to have you on and talking about creating a healthy home or at least the beginning steps to. So thank you for coming on the show today.

It is absolutely my pleasure, Michael. Great to be here.

Good. And I noticed that you prepared a fantastic presentation for everybody today to kind of dive everybody through it. I'm excited to see that. And if you will share your screen and dive in, that'd be fantastic.

I can do that. And so the interesting thing is that usually I'm speaking off the cuff on these things and I can go on for quite some time. But I'm glad you are holding me to a presentation, a PowerPoint presentation, because there's so much to talk about. As you know, we've had conversations before, Michael, and there's so much to talk about. And we want to make sure that your listeners are getting the most appropriate information, the most actionable information that they can take right now and do something with.

That's perfect. And you did mention that it typically takes about 10 hours to go through all the components of creating a healthy home. But we're going to do this in 30 minutes. So we're going to cover the basics and of course, people can find you to learn more about it as well after.

Fantastic. All right, so folks, thank you so much for, for joining today. I am really excited to talk to you about basically how to get started on building a healthy home. This is not going to be the 10 hour process of every screw and nut and nail that puts your home together. But this is to basically dip your toe in the water. And where to start. This is the process of, of the, the part of the process where people usually get stuck the easiest. They want to build, they want to live in a healthy home. They have the finances for it, they have everything ready to go. Where do you start? And so here's hopefully your, your primer on that. So my name is Andy Pace. I own a company called the Green Design Center. I started it in 1993. We're the oldest healthy home supplier in the country. And about 10 years ago, I decided to take the knowledge that I've learned about the building materials and turn it into a, a consulting business so I can now work with people. And I do work with people all over the world. Whether you're building a home in the UK or trying to find an apartment that's Healthy in Spain. I work with my clients to answer those questions that they just can't get answers to locally. And so today we're going to talk about the primer of how do you start the process of building your healthy or your green home? So step one, you got to create a plan. All right, what are you trying to achieve in this process? Are we trying to achieve a home that is going to be your life long home? This is your home that you want to retire in. This is where the home that you're the grandkids are going to going to be staying with you once in a while. Is this a transitional space? Are you maybe in the process of building a home or even remodeling a home to live in while you look for your next space? And so you have to create that plan. You have to decide what you're trying to achieve. Now a program that I created many years ago is called Degree of Green. It helps people decide how they interact with the, with the industry and what their ideas of what green means. So let me step back a bit. Back in the early 2000s when the United States Green Building Council was created and they created a program called Lead Leadership and Energy and Environmental Design. The LEED program was built as a checklist on how to build a commercial building or a home utilizing all these different attributes. And you get certain point value for what you do. And your home was rated or your building was rated as a silver, gold, platinum home. But it had most to do with, as the title says, energy and environmental design, global environmental concerns, energy efficiency. When that program came around, what they didn't really think about too much was the health of the occupants, whether it's a home or a business. And so I had to create my own program. I called it Degree of Green. And what this means is there are three main categories of green in all of either building or in consumer goods. The first is human healthy. The second one is environmentally healthy and the third being sustainable. Out of those three categories, there's about 27 different descriptors that could be placed into one of those three main categories. Recyclable, locally made, organic, again, toxin free, healthy. Any of these descriptors, you could actually just use a blanket statement and say it's green, it's eco friendly. So when you went to a builder back in the day and you said, I want to build a house, a green home, I want to build an eco friendly home, they all kind of looked at it from an energy efficiency standpoint. And my clients, who are people with Allergies, asthma, chemical sensitivities, and so forth. They weren't really getting that satisfaction of what they're looking for. So I created this program to help them with their language. Speak. Speak this language. So let's take a look at the three categories. Human, healthy. This is going to be for people who have chemical sensitivities, allergies, asthma, somebody who has been poisoned by a mold situation in their home, someone who has Lyme disease, chronic inflammation, mast cell activation syndrome, all these things that can cause the immune system to go haywire in the body. They're looking for a home that is going to be healthy for them, healthier for their family. Sustainability. Sustainability would be longevity of materials. You know, how long is it going to last? A good example, there would be a metal roof versus an asphalt roof. A metal roof can last five to ten times longer than asphalt. She angles. That's good sustainability. The third would be environmental health or eco friendliness. This is probably the one that we would see the most over the years. Energy efficiency. The, the fact that it's a low carbon footprint for the manufacturer, for the build. All right, out of these three categories, none of them are wrong. Of course, they're all correct in their own way. But as a consumer, when you go into a retail store or you go talk to a builder contractor and you say you want to do something green, they'd all kind of paint everybody with that same broad brush of energy efficient eco friendliness. And they forgot about the human health aspect. And that's where we would come in.

And I think that's so important to dive into, Andy, because you have, you know, we, we've gone so far down the beaten path of energy efficiency and human health has suffered because of that, because we haven't been paying attention to this human healthy component. So the system that you've come up with that focuses on, on that aspect, I think is massively important.

Well, thank you. And I think that over the years, it's proven to be an invaluable asset for us because it's allowed us to speak the language and bridge that gap. And let me give you some examples of all three. You know, there's, I'm sure there's some people listening saying, well, I'm not really sure which one I fall into. Right. I might want all three. So think of it this way. I'll describe it as customers coming into our showroom. The first customer comes in and says, we need to build a home. Our family is expanding. We need more bedroom space, but we have A child with autism and autistic children have a tendency to spend a lot of time on the ground. Okay. And so we've found over years that they need to be surrounded by materials, specifically flooring products that don't have any chemical off gassing. And so that then translates into all aspects of the, of the home, whether it's, it's bedding, whether it's wall finishes, cabinetry and so forth. The home has to be built with the least amount of off gassing to make sure it doesn't exacerbate his, his issues. So that would be, I would consider that human healthy. Everything else that you'd want to decide upon that home, whether it's aesthetic or energy efficiency or what have you, is secondary to the first, which is human healthy. Now the second client walks in. Second client has actually this is a client that came into our showroom many, many years ago, which helped me develop this degree of green system. She walked in and she says, I'm 55 years old. I've been a burden to the earth for 55 years. I want to remodel the home that I'm in using nothing but recycled, repurposed, renewed materials. Can you help me find these products? Do you know of resources? So this means we're going to the Habitat restore to try to find cabinetry or maybe find old doors and woodwork that we can install. Maybe we're going to other resale shops or homes that are maybe being knocked down for a new building and trying to find other materials to use inside of the house. Even using paint materials. There's a, there's several paint brands on the market that are actually a blend of leftover paint that they combine and they filter and they sort of retint to a general off white so that it's basically utilizing paint that would normally be wasted or poured into a landfill. So now the third customer walks in. The third customer says, I want to build a home with the lowest carbon footprint. What does that mean? Well, we're using materials that have been manufactured, locally manufactured, close to where the job site is, because that means the embodied energy involved in getting the product to them is low. Maybe the materials themselves, the embodied energy and the manufacturing of the materials, the ingredients of the materials, is very, very low. We have to look at things such as gypsum based drywall, which has huge environmental carbon concerns versus something but it's made in, you know, L.A. versus a magnesium oxide board, which has very, very low carbon, almost no carbon concerns. But it's made in China. But we look at these things and say at, at the end of the day, what's the best way to go for this particular client? Out of all three of those categories, again, who's right, who's wrong? I think all three of them are right in their own way. However, as the, the, the concierge, the, the consultant for this client, what I have to do is say, all right, you're picking human health. That's going to be the focus. Everything else is now secondary. There will come times throughout the project where you have to make a decision, do I want this or that? You know, let's say the price is the same, but is it going to affect the human health in a positive way? Is it going to affect, or maybe it's going to be a negative for sustainability or environmental, and you have to live with that because ultimately it's going to achieve your healthy home goals better. These are the conversations that traditional builders have never had before, the industry has never had again. They paint everything with that same broad brush of energy efficiency and global environmental. They think nothing of truly the human health aspect of construction. We're saying, if that is your goal, and of course for this presentation, this is our goal, then that is the number one item. We will have to pick materials that might be made in China or might be made in the Netherlands or, or in, in South America because they are the healthiest materials to use in your project, regardless of where they came from, regardless of what they're made from.

Makes sense.

Excellent. Now, one of the first things you want to do when you are getting ready and putting together your plan now, you know, if your degree of green is healthy, you have to start looking at the terminology that the industry uses and recognizing what terminology is useful or helpful. What terminology might be considered greenwashing or fluff. Something they're going to tell you just to basically appease you, to make you think like, oh, they know what they're talking about. All right. So the very first thing that I'm going to talk about is the whole concept of VOCs. Now, in the industry, in the building industry, even in commercial goods, we hear an awful lot about what a VOC is. Actually, we don't hear about what it is. We hear the term voc. A VOC is what's called a volatile organic compound. Sounds nasty. I know it sounds really bad. But if you actually look at it, what it means is any carbon based molecule that's readily vaporized at room temperature, that could rise to the upper atmosphere and create smog if it reacts with UV and nitrogen, that's way up in the upper atmosphere. All right. In our homes, a VOC is not nearly as important to look at as the toxicity of the ingredient itself. Okay, so if you take a look at paint, for instance, as we have a picture here of a paintbrush and a paint can. Paint has been touted now for the last five, 10 years, every brand has come out with their own zero VOC paint. What does that mean? Well, that means that the paint does not contain any chemicals that are regulated by the Environmental Protection Agency to be classified as a VOC because they create low level smog. That does not mean that the paint is toxin free. And let me give you an example. In the paint industry, it's very common for paint brands to use an ingredient called acetone. Acetone, if you're not familiar with it, is nail polish remover. It's a very, very odiferous solvent, very dangerous solvent. It reacts in the body really fast. If you were in a 20,000 square foot building and somebody in the building opened up a can of acetone, within 15 minutes, everybody in the building would have detectable levels in their liver. That's how fast it absorbs through the skin into the blood system. Acetone is very, very dangerous. However, according to the epa, acetone does not actually react to nitrogen to create smog. Therefore, it can be used in a gallon of paint and not be disclosed. It does not have to be called a voc. This is why people still complain about certain zero VOC paint smelling like acetone, smelling like ammonia, which is another non regulated vocal. So what I tell people is they need to stop asking about what the VOC content is because quite frankly, if you're looking for the health of a product, the VOC level is pointless. Okay. The toxicity is the issue. Now you'll say, but what about those things that have really super high VOCs? That's gotta be bad. Well, as an example, if you peel the skin off of an orange at breakfast, you're releasing into the air 850 grams per liter of volatile organic compounds. VOCs, but they're very safe for the, for humans because it's a, it's actually a very natural delimiting solvent in very small or acute situations. If you got into your eyes, would burn, of course, but in the air it's not considered a health hazard whatsoever. So you have to be very careful about those numbers that you are given. So I always point that out about VOCs because that's really a key point in all of this.

And Obviously not all VOCs are created equal. Some VOCs are going to be more harmful than others. And that's why it's really important to look at the toxic effect of these VOCs and not the term VOCs itself. Is that right?

Absolutely, Michael, absolutely. Because if you look at again, a carpeting, for instance, that could be considered zero VOC. Well, it actually will contain chemicals like 111 trichloroethane, which is a highly dangerous chemical. But it's not considered a VOC by the epa, so it doesn't have to be listed. All right. So that's why we just can't use the VOC content as any sort of metric to help us decide whether if something is very safe or not very safe. Energy efficient versus toxin free. This is a good one because in, in the building industry it's been a huge push to go to energy efficient homes. And I get it, we all want to live in an energy efficient home. Nobody goes to a big box store when they need a new washer or dryer and say, says, give me the least efficient one you have. We all want the most efficient. Right. But we also want a toxin free home. So we need to understand that there is a difference from a human health standpoint between energy efficient or eco friendly and toxin free, human friendly. All right, the two big items, and obviously mold is one that. Michael, you're the expert on this, so I'm not really going to touch this too much, but formaldehyde and mold, to me and to many of the people that I talk to, professionals in my industry, we all believe that formaldehyde and mold are really the next lead in asbestos in our industry. You know, asbestos is, is obviously what, what causes mesothelioma or lung cancer from the asbestos fiber. Lead is an obviously known health hazard leading to developmental disorders and children and so forth. But formaldehyde and mold, two things aren't regulated at all or very little and, but are found in everybody's home and causing health concerns to everybody and serious health issues. With so many people, both formaldehyde and mold on a daily basis, they're the two number one reasons why people call me to talk about building healthier because of these two issues. And I think that from a building industry standpoint, from the insurance standpoint, this is going to be the focus now for the next probably 15 to 20 years.

Totally agree.

And then IAQ, this is a term that we throw around in our industry, indoor air quality. This is something that in a healthy home, it's not just a Phrase to pass by and tell your builder, I want good iaq because they don't really understand what that truly means in building a healthy home. It's all about encompassing all aspects of construction. It's not just using healthier materials. It's not just using a good air purifier. It's using all of these methods together holistically so that the entire process is a healthier process and then thus a healthier space to live in. Planning your ventilation. Making sure that you have proper ventilation in the bathrooms, in the kitchen, you have proper air makeup for anything that's ventilated out. And just so that we have fresh air in the home, making sure that you have good air purification on your H vac system, not just a fresh air intake. That doesn't cut it. You have to have good air purification consisting of particulate filters, carbon filters for chemicals, and off gassing, UV lights for mold and viruses and bacteria. You have to incorporate all of these things into it. So again, IAQ is a much larger discussion for a healthy home than just a quick pass by. We want good air quality. All right, step two on starting your healthy home process. Interviewing your builder and your architect. So quite often, people will come to me and ask if there is somebody in the area they're calling from that can build them a healthy home. And my answer inevitably is, yes, of course there is. Do I know them? No, I don't. But it's a process on how we find the right company, the right team to work with. So in a couple parts of our country and in other parts of the world, I can tell you that, yes, there is somebody that I can point you to right in your neck of the woods that can build you a healthy home. It doesn't really help me to get into those names right now because I don't know where you're listening to this, and it just might be more frustrating than anything else. I'm not living in the right area. Honestly, folks, you can find somebody in your area or close enough to you that can build you a healthy home, but you have to interview them. The. The trades. You have to interview the team and ask the right question. So several months ago, I was asked by a client to actually walk through the interviews with their potential builders and potential architects. And this launched a whole new aspect of my consulting where I actually do interview the builders and the architects with the client to make sure it's a good fit. The first thing I will find out is can they actually deliver on what they're promising and Execute the plan. You know, all too often in interviewing a builder, they'll say, oh, of course, yeah, I can do that. I can build you a healthy home. Yeah, we've had other customers that, that have asked for these things before. It's not going to be a problem. But can they really do it? I mean, can they actually point to a project? Do they have somebody that they can reach out to as a past client and say, you know, please give them a call and find out what the process was like? Do they have the processes in place to find the materials that we need to build this home? One of the things that I like to do with my consulting clients is find or I'll recommend materials that they won't have a hard time finding locally. All right, if, if it's something that's really exotic that they need for their particular project, because every project is going to be different, we'll help them source it. But we're hoping that the materials that we recommend and we put onto the drawings and in the notes will be things that they'll be able to find locally. I would say 95% of the time it's not a problem. But what if it's from a supplier that that particular builder doesn't work with? How easy is it for them to start working with this new supplier, working with these new materials? You know, do they have a team in place that can actually educate their trades on how to use these materials? I can point to countless projects in the past where the contractor has said, oh, yeah, not a problem. You know, I've heard of that product. We've never used it, but it's not going to be a problem. And by the time they're ready to use the product on the job site, it's a problem. They have no idea what they're doing. They then say, you know what, this is going to be too difficult. It's going to delay the job. We've got to just use what we normally use. And that's kind of their way of, of getting around these things once in a while. Right. To try to make it seem like it's just not going to work. So we ask these questions early on. What is your process? How do you interview your suppliers? And subs to make sure that they're all on board on this? The same, the same trip here again, what is their process for working with these materials? Do they have a training program? I can think of one brand that we work with quite a bit called Schluter, which is a tile backing system for showers. And tubs and so forth. And we recommend these products all the time on our projects. And we know that if they're in an area of the country that maybe these products aren't used that often. I do know that the representatives from the company will actually work with the local contractors and teach them how to use the products. So we want to make sure that the contractor is okay with that, because as we know, sometimes contractors can be a little stuck in their ways, and they will say, this is the way I've done it forever. I'm going to stick to doing it this way because I know it works. And they're afraid of change. They're afraid of new materials and methods. We want to see how open they are to learning new things.

Andy, can I tell you something real quick? I have a client right now, six bathrooms, she's having to rip out, remediate, and redo. You want to know why they tiled directly to drywall, not even the green board. As if that would save anything but just tile directly on top of drywall. You know, these schluter systems, Laticrete systems, they're so important to waterproofing your shower.

They are, and I'm glad you brought that up, because I can't tell you how much pushback I get from the. From the trades on this. They'll say we always just go directly to the green board, or we use a cement board first and then tile. Cement board is nothing but a wick. You know, eventually that grout is going to crack ever so slightly, and all you need is a drip of water to start hitting that spot on a regular basis. And that drip eventually leads to getting through into the cement board. And that cement board is a wick, and it'll draw it all the way back. The nails or screws holding the cement board in will draw that moisture all the way into the core of the wood. And eventually that wood will start to rot. It may take five years or 10 years, but it will happen. It's just a matter of time. All right, so what makes a healthy home builder versus what is not a healthy home builder? Honestly, a lot of times I'll have clients say to me, well, in my area, there's a company that specializes in building green homes. So I think I'm going to start with them. My advice to you is to not start with them. You can interview them, of course, but I want you to interview other custom home builders. Okay. Other builders who have maybe never even built a healthy home before, but they're eager to green home Builders, high performance builders, those who are building to a specific set of metrics and standards always have to have their homes meet these metrics and standards. Otherwise they're not going to do it right. So they got to meet the exact blower door testing results that they normally see. They got to meet all of the, all of the high performance home build standards, the metrics that are out there for air leakage, for R values and new values and this and that. They don't really care about the occupants. They care about the metrics. They care about meeting those requirements. Doesn't matter how they get there. They'll use spray foam because it's the most energy efficient, even though it's the most toxic, because it helps them meet that requirement. Green home builders are very, very rigid. They are very highly unlikely to move away from those standards that they have created. Custom home builders. You know, if you get a recommendation from a family member, a neighbor, a friend, you go to the local builders association, get a list of custom home builders, and you find a few that you think you like. Custom home builders are used to having clients with specific requests. And imagine now in the last couple of years as we're going through Covid and people are sitting at home on their Pinterest page or their houzz page, and they're posting a thousand pictures of a kitchen that they want to have in their home. Those are those customers going to a custom home builder saying, here's my login to the Pinterest page. I've got a thousand pictures of my kitchen. This is what I want it to look like. Make this for me. All right? They're used to that type of clientele, and they will then achieve what you want. So if you go to them and say, I'm looking for a healthy home, and here's the things that I'm looking for, here's what I really want. Again, be specific about the health of the occupants, not just, you know, trying to go green. And they're gonna. The good ones will look back and say, you know what? I can do this. And here's the process that I'll use in order to do this. The same way that they're building you a custom home. All right, so how do you find a healthy home architect or a high performance builder? Condo combo. Honestly, it's just what I talked about. It's the interviewing process that's going through these steps with people who have you. You found from your family, friends, neighbors, driving through developments and seeing signs out front of houses, and you say, I Like the look of that house. I like how they're putting this together. I'm going to give them a call and maybe set up an interview with, with their team and ask them these questions about their processes, about how open they are to new materials, new methods. One of the most important things you can ask them is, are you okay with working with a consultant? You know, quite honestly, I'm sure, Michael, in your experience, you've seen this too. When you're working with other professionals in the industry, sometimes they can be a little bit skittish working with another consultant because, you know, honestly, they don't want somebody telling them what to do. The good ones, though, will say, oh, my gosh, please. I mean, I love it if a customer comes to me and says, I'm going to hire somebody specifically for this and this, and I'm going to hire you. That's great, because now I'm learning, too, and I'm learning things that I can bring on to the next client. But sometimes builders or architects just have a hard time doing that because, you know, they don't want to share the spotlight.

Well, sometimes people don't enjoy hearing that they. The same thing they've been doing for the past 30 years has been, you know, not the right thing to do.

That is exactly right. And it's a fine line we walk. You know, it's. You know, I don't want to embarrass anybody. I always say, I'm sure there's a reason why you're doing it this way, but here's my approach. And, you know, hopefully they'll get that, as maybe it's something that they need to learn. All right, step three, how to execute your plan. First of all, you have to prioritize your building materials. Okay. Any new home build, and let's just use a new home build as the example here. 90% of the toxicity issues, the emissions coming from the new building materials are going to come from the things you see and touch on a daily basis. Okay. Keep in mind that it's been estimated anywhere between 10 to 15,000 chemicals are floating around in the air at any given time after the construction process is complete. This is the off gassing from all the different materials and systems that were used to build your home. And this is also the combination of new chemical compounds formed when these things off gas and combine. So what is this coming from mainly? Well, in most people's homes, fluorine's going to be your number one emitter of toxins in the home. Now I can break that down even further and say carpeting is the number one emitter of anybody's home when it comes to chemicals. All right? And of course, in the case of mold, Michael, you know that carpet is just a huge problem because it harbors mold and bacteria and moisture and a food source and so on and so on. So we let getting rid of carpet right away.

Yep.

And so I would say that if carpet is something that you do want in your home, then we're going to gravitate towards a natural, chemical free wool product. You know, something from nature's carpet or earth weave or one of those companies that they do make carpets completely out of 100% natural ingredients. Because even though they might have a smell, they kind of smell like wool. They, you know, they had that kind of sheep smell for a few weeks. The ingredients used are completely harmless to humans. And so for those areas where you have to have something soft underfoot, that's what we're going to go. The second thing in your home that's going to be emitting will be the walls and the ceilings, your painted surfaces, your plastered surfaces, typical paints, even zero voc paints that you buy down at the hardware store can off gas anywhere from two and a half to four and a half years after full curing. All right. People confuse curing with off gassing. Curing is the process of the film forming, the moisture and solvent evaporating and creating that hard, durable coating. Once that has been completed, seven to 10 days roughly. This is when off gassing starts. Off gassing is the release of unreacted chemical monomers that come off of the coating after the full cure. These are little bits of chemical that are basically extras in the, in the chemical process. These little monomers that will never become part of the coating, they kind of poke out of this, out of the surface like a dust. And so we have to be careful of that because everything in the home that's off gassing will help contribute to that, that chemical soup that 10 to 15,000 chemicals in your house. So we look at the big surfaces, flooring, your walls and your ceilings. Third is going to be your cabinetry and woodwork. And now, I know cabinetry is not a large portion of your home, but it's very concentrated. And keep in mind, every morning when you go to make, make your cup of tea or a cup of coffee, you're opening up a cabinet door and you get this rush of chemical fume in your face. Anybody who lives in a new home or a newer home, you can relate to this and so we concentrate on cabinetry and then woodwork in general. Your doors, your trim, because they all use the same type of finishes and glues and so forth. So we want to make sure that these are going to be healthier. And then your own personal finishings. Your own personal finishings would be your furniture, your window treatments, your area rugs, your artwork, even your clothing. So these four areas will be what contributes to 90% of the chemical toxicity in any new home build. Now, this is important. Don't Forget the last 10%. Right. The last 10% will be the things behind the walls, the things you'll never see once they're done. This is the part of construction that I get involved in heavily myself as a consultant during the blueprint stage. Now, it's not fun to pick out drywall. It's not fun to pick out insulation. It's fun to pick out, you know, window treatments and faucets and flooring and colors. But this, the structural part of the home, is where that last 10% is. And unfortunately, once it's done, you really can't redo it. It's one and done. So we spend time on insulation and sheathing and your air barriers. And this, of course, you know, right up your alley, Michael. This is where mold is going to occur in those cavity walls of, you know, the exterior cavity walls of your home. And if it's done right from the start, it's not going to happen. So we got to spend a lot of time at the start on that last 10%.

Couldn't agree more.

Excellent. So we do talk about insulation, your mold barriers, different types of coatings and so forth, air barriers and so forth. What I want you to do is prioritize the rooms in your home and prioritize your budget. Okay? I say invest in the most highly trafficked rooms, but also, you know, in that, most importantly, is going to be your bedrooms. The bedrooms of anybody's home, whether it's a new build, a remodel, an apartment, it doesn't matter. The bedroom needs to be the safest room in the house, period. We are locked in that room for six to eight hours a night, and we hope to get restorative sleep. We won't get restorative sleep if you're constantly dealing with chemical off gassing, electromagnetic fields, and other indoor air quality issues that from. From mold or viruses, bacteria that will upset our REM sleep. So we have to focus on those bedrooms first. And then, of course, in step three, in executing this plan, most important, down at the bottom is communication. All too often, the breakdown between building a healthy home and living in just a, you know, what you thought was going to be healthy and wasn't was communication between the builder, the architect, the consultants, the clients, all the subs and suppliers on the project. You've got to communicate. What you don't want to have happen is the window installers put it in windows and they're caulking around the exterior. They run out of the healthy stuff, so they run over to the truck, they grab a tube of whatever they got and use that. And all of a sudden you've got solvent pouring into your house from that one caulk joint of that one window completely. In pushing against that goal of having a healthy home, you know, with. With my luck, that'd be a bedroom window. And now all of a sudden, we have to deal with that. So you want good communication. If somebody's running out of a product, we need to refill. If there's a question on a job site, and this is for anybody involved in a project right now, if there's ever a question about whether to use something or not, stop, make a phone call, ask a question, you know, ask your trusted resources for their opinion and, you know, their expertise before just going and doing something and finding out the hard way that was the wrong decision. All right? And honestly, Michael, that's. That's how you start building a healthy home at this point. You know, anything I can do to help, you know, please feel free to reach out.

Andy, that was so amazing. Thank you for spending your time today and sharing all this. This amazing information. You know, it's. It's three simple steps to get started, and obviously there's a lot more that goes into each step. But I think it's really important that people have this information, take the right steps. You know, for me, I think 245 homes I remediated last year, a lot of homes, right? And after I'm done, they need to then rebuild those homes. And having a resource to do that is really important because it's, It's. I've seen so many horror stories, as I mentioned earlier, clients ripping out six bathrooms, right. Because they weren't specified properly. Left to the contractor to install things the way that they normally do. And unfortunately, there's a lot of variables with building a home, as you know, and it's really important to make sure that you're interviewing people the right way. You know the lingo. You have a good team behind you, because without a good team that knows this stuff, you end up getting stuck in situations where you have to redo.

Stuff that's, you know, I couldn't have said it better myself. Very good, Andy.

Thank you. And for everyone listening, check out his podcast. Great information out there. Visit his website. Andy, thank you so much for being here in support of Change the Air foundation and helping give people what they need, which is the right information and education to create. Create a healthy environment.

Absolutely. My pleasure, Michael. Thank you.