Episode #102: Frequency Specific Microcurrent with Dr. Carolyn McMakin, MA, DC

Welcome to Better Health Guy Blogcasts Empowering your better health and now here's Scott, your Better Health Guy. The content of this show is for informational purposes only and is not intended to diagnose, treat or cure any illness or medical condition. Nothing in today's discussion is meant to serve as medical advice or or his information to facilitate self treatment. As always, please discuss any potential health related decisions with your own personal medical authority.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode number.

102 of the Better Health Guy Blogcast series. Today's guest is Dr. Carolyn McMaken and the topic of the show is frequency specific microcurrent. Dr. Carolyn McMaken is the clinical Director of the Fibromyalgia and Myofascial Pain clinic in Portland, Oregon. She developed frequency specific microcurrent in 1995 and began teaching FSM courses in 1997. In addition to maintaining a part time clinical practice, she teaches seminars on the use of FSM in the United States, Australia, Europe and the Middle East. She has lectured at the National Institutes of Health and at medical conferences in the us, England, Ireland and Australia on on the subjects of fibromyalgia and myofascial pain syndrome, fibromyalgia associated with cervical spine trauma and on the differential diagnosis and treatment of pain and pain syndromes and sports injuries. Her peer reviewed publications include papers on the FSM induced changes in inflammatory cytokines and Substance P seen with FSM treatment of fibromyalgia associated with spine trauma treatment of pain in the head, neck and face and low back caused by myofascial trigger points, delayed onset muscle soreness, shingles and neuropathic pain. She consults with various NFL and MLB teams and players on the use of Frequency specific Microcurrent in the treatment of sports injuries. Her textbook Frequency Specific Microcurrent in Pain Management was published in 2010. Her book the Resonance Effect was released in March 2017 and describes how FSM was developed and provides case reports and frequency protocols for the visceral uses of FSM. And now my interview with Dr. Carolyn McMaken.

I have had the opportunity to meet.

Dr. Carolyn McMaken several times at conferences.

Over the past few years. Everyone that stops by and works with her at these events says that she has healing hands and I'm excited today to talk with her about FSM or Frequency Specific Microcurrent. Thanks for being here today, Dr. McMaken.

Thank you so. Thank you so much Scott. It's good to be with you.

Thanks.

Nice to see you again too Nice.

To see you as well. What drew you personally to doing the work that you do today and made you so passionate about helping other people through frequency specific microcurrent?

Well, that's a really good question. I started chiropractic college at the age of 42, did two years of pre med and I'd always wanted to be a doctor. So my call to medicine, I was a pharmaceutical salesman for 16 years. So my call to medicine and education in medicine was very long standing. So when I got to chiropractic college and then I graduated and started a practice, I think I was 47. A friend of mine gave me a two channel microcurrent device as a graduation happy start, your practice present. And that same friend had a list of frequencies that he got from an osteopath who bought a practice in 1946 that came with a machine that was built in 1922. And that machine came with a list of frequencies. So when George Douglas went down to California and worked with Harry van Gelder for three months in 1983, he brought home this list of frequencies and put it in a drawer. Well, when my practice began to focus, like as soon as it started on chronic pain patients, one day when I was working on somebody, George said, here, try this frequency. I was like, what? That's from? It's from Harry's list. Okay. So I tried it. And I had broken a blood vessel in this lady's leg. I was working on her with my thumbs to do a trigger point in the gastrocs. I used the frequency 18 Hz on channel A and 62 Hz on channel B to, I found out later, stop bleeding. And her pain went from a six to a zero. The trigger point was gone. And it's like, wow, that's different. And then we started to use the frequencies on patients with myofascial pain. And I'd been doing myofascial release and myofascial trigger point work for four or five years. And when you use, when you use your hands, you're used to really having to dig on muscles. It's uncomfortable. Ischemic compression, all of that. When I started using the frequencies, the muscles just melted, the trigger points just dissolved into like something like pudding, leaving behind just normal, non tender, non trigger point muscle. So we treated muscle pain first, then nerve pain, then we figured out how to treat the spinal cord. And then the conditions that the frequencies responded to were broadening and deeper and wider and more difficult and more profound. And so that's the way I got to It. But the reason I've stayed with it is how could you not? How could you not? How could you, once you feel tissue, do what is not possible to do, how do you not do that?

Right?

So you just show up at work and you start out and you see one patient. I had to see three patients an hour. I had three rooms. And so it's been 20, 25 years of what has turned out to be clinical research, because within two years, my practice was more or less exclusively the 10% of patients that nobody else could fix. So I trigger points, nerve pain, ligamentous laxity, disc injuries, facet, joint pain. This last weekend, we taught a seminar in Denver, and there was a young man there who was 42. He had cerebral palsy from birth. They had done serial casting in his feet when he was a child at the age of three. And they got the legs to lengthen and the spasticity to be reduced. But then when he's 27, 15 years previously, he got chickenpox, and the inflammation or something made the cerebral palsy come back. So he had spastic diplegia, which means he's toe walking on spastic legs, taking very short steps and with a cane and just difficult to navigate. A little bit of spasticity in his hands. Well, there's a frequency that we stumbled across. I mean, the frequencies are all on the list. There's no new numbers. There's new ways of figuring out how to use them. There is a frequency for increasing descending inhibition of spasticity in the spinal cord and to increase secretions from the cerebellum, we. Which is what's missing in cerebral palsy. So if something happened to your spinal cord to injure or reduce the kind of messages that come down from the brain that say, don't spasm, you'd have cerebral palsy. Okay, this young man, we ran that frequency. Increased secretions in the spinal cord, increased secretions in the cerebellum. And inside of an hour, the spasticity in its legs was gone. And his gait was more normal. He was still a little bit up on his toes, but his legs were more relaxed and there was no more pain. And so Sunday night before he left, we worked on him for another hour. Only this time, he had retained what he started with on Thursday night, and we were able to progress on that. So his hamstrings relaxed and his psoas relaxed, and there are frequencies to treat the tendons that accompanies a very chronically tight muscle. So the psoas lengthened the legs Lengthened. We were able to sort of, with manual therapy, get the gastroc to lengthen and run the frequencies for scarring in the connective tissue to get the gastroc to lengthen. Got his foot 95, 100 degrees. The end of the story is that at the end of an hour and 20 minutes, he is walking normally with heel strike, toe off, heel strike, toe off. Shifting weight normally. We'll see if it lasts.

Wow, that's amazing.

But how could you not do that?

Yeah, absolutely.

So let's start then with the basics.

For those people that are listening. So what is frequency and what is resonance? Or as you say in your book titled the Resonance Effect. So when you deliver a frequency to the body from this list that you mentioned, how do those frequencies resonate with something within us to support improvement of health and balance?

Oh, that's a great question. First, a frequency in music is a sound or a tone. Frequency in electronics is the number of pulses per second. So one hertz is one pulse per second. So in music, the a tone is 440 Hz. 440 pulses per second makes you hear the note. So that's the basic concept. There's a lot of physics involved in that that we'll skip. But resonance, the simplest example that we use on a daily basis, well, there's a couple of them. One is, I have a blue shirt on here. When you're a child, you are taught that this frequency is called blue. It is not a color. It is a frequency that is reflected off the dye in my shirt, hits your eye, is interpreted by your brain. And when you were six months old, your mom or dad taught you that that color is that frequency is called blue. So we interact with frequencies all the time with our ears and our eyes. The most common at this point use of frequencies that everybody does is your car remote. There's a frequency that your car is tuned to and it's very precise, down to thousandths of a hertz. And when you click your key fob, it opens your door lock just on your car, and then you click it again and it opens the back doors. Even if there is an identical vehicle from the identical year, your key fob, your remote will only resonate with your car doors. So that's the equivalent, I think, of how the frequencies affect our body. We've had data over the years and the only thing at this point that explains all the data, the only mechanism that explains all of the data that we have is that somehow the frequencies are interacting with cell membrane receptors in Such a way as to change their configuration or somehow change their interaction with the internal machinery of the cell. And, and it changes what the cell does. So there is a frequency that reduces inflammation in the spinal cord. We have that data from the National Institutes of Health. These peptides, which are very difficult to change in any medical or research setting, called cytokines, they change by factors of 10 and 20 times in 90 minutes. This is literally impossible. And after 10 years of medical physicians and researchers and physicists literally all over the country on email conversations and at meetings trying to figure out how we did this, the consensus is that the only thing that makes sense is that the frequencies change cell signaling in such a way that the cell machinery inside changes and the cell stops putting out these inflammatory cytokines, these inflammatory peptides. Because all of the cytokines stop in the normal range. They come down from 300 to 32 down by a factor of 10 times in 90 minutes. And they stop in the normal range. When you change these cytokines with drugs, the problem with the medications is that they take them below the normal range and then the patient has problems with infection and cancer because you need the cytokines for protection, because we lower them so fast, so dramatically. And then when the cell comes back on, it never goes back as high as it was. And each time you treat, the cell behaves more normally. So we're used to pharmaceuticals and nutritional substances operating on those same receptors like a key in a lock. You can use your key to open your car door and you can use ibuprofen or some non steroidal anti inflammatory to change the cellular machinery and reduce inflammation. Or apparently you can use a signal. So that's resonance is when you match the frequency to the target. So the key fob to the key. When a singer sings a note that shatters a lead crystal grass. The reason that trick works is that the frequency that holds lead atoms together there is a frequency that binds one lead atom to another in a lead crystal matrix. Only works with lead crystal that is at least I think, 70% or 80% lead. I think it's 70%. And when the singer's note is very precise and sustained, the lead atoms start to vibrate. And pretty soon they vibrate enough that the lead atoms stop sticking to each other and the crystal glass comes apart. So those are the easiest examples.

No, those are fantastic. Dr. Klinghardt, who's been one of my mentors over the years, has been a big proponent of physics based tools over biochemistry, or at least using a combination of the two. So we've talked a little about how frequency specific microcurrent, which is based in physics, is shifting the chemistry of the body. So my question to you is in exposure to, let's say, electromagnetic fields from cell phone towers and so on, do those frequencies have the potential then to negatively affect our chemistry?

There's research out there that shows that EMF and certainly like even the magnetic fields that are around wall current 60 cycle or 60 Hz current, there are studies in, I think it was Norway showing that the frequencies that surround us can increase the stress response. In specific, I think Becker found that what's interesting to me is that when we use there's a frequency in the FSM protocols in the advanced courses for neutralizing that EMF influence on cells. I have no idea how that works. But if the EMF that we are surrounded by is very high frequency, Becker's conclusion, or Becker's suggestion was that those high frequencies somehow increase the stress response in the body and change immune system activation. And to the extent that FSM frequencies have been shown to quiet the stress response, so we have the ability to, to change heart rate variability in 60 seconds can with the frequency to quiet the sympathetics change heart rate variability and autonomic tone in 60 seconds. There's a study in 2013, quiet the sympathetics, run that frequency, wait two minutes, do the test and the sympathetics have come down. Parasympathetics have balance and come up. So there's always a teeter totter between sympathetic and parasympathetic balance. So as long as we can do that, then EMF just doesn't worry me. There are particular patients that are sensitive to it, but I think it's because their stress response is preset, either genetically or medically or because of life experience. And the stress centers in the brain which affect the immune system and the endocrine system and all the systems, digestive systems, stress centers in the brain are more sensitive to disruption by those high frequencies and they over respond because you have people that don't have any effect from it at all and you have people that have very strong symptomatic changes in response to cell phones. If you look on your phone and you check, I will guarantee you that I'm in a relatively small town in the state of Washington. I have 1200 cell phone towers within a 1 mile circumference. So there's no place you can go, perhaps short of Antarctica where you're not going to be an mf. And not everybody suffers. So in my world. It's more a matter of making the patient's system less reactive by quieting down the sympathetics, by quieting down the stress centers in the amygdala, the hippocampus, the midbrain, and bringing up the vagal tone so that the vagus is not so fragile and so easily turned off. So there's no way we're going to change modern society. And so we are surrounded by emf. So our response simply is to navigate that and help the patient be healthier.

Yeah, I'm going to have to watch. I've just recently started exploring the Oura ring, which does measure heart rate variability. And so I'm going to be interested to see FSM shifts some of the HRV on that system.

I've got my little electromagnetic thing. I have no idea if it works, but I know that I feel better on days when I wear it. So it's like, okay, that's great.

But one of the nice things with the Oura ring is it actually measures your HRV and your heart rate and whatnot. And you can actually do things then like FSM and see how your body responds to it. So that's very exciting. Tell us a little about some of the medical conditions or challenges that people have that you've seen. FSM really help support. I know fibromyalgia is a primary one. What are some of the others that you commonly see and what are some of the types of issues that frequency may be able to support in the body?

Oh, good question. The most common things that we treat that like 80% of the patients that come in to see a standard therapist, either a pt, an ot, an md, a dc, naturopath, do. I mean, we have the whole gamut of medical profession. We started out with neuropathic pain as being the number one. We actually started with muscle pain. But it turns out that muscle pain is almost literally never due to the muscle. When we treat the nerve and the nerves that innervate the muscles, the pain goes down. When we treat the disc and facet joints and reduce their inflammation, the pain goes down. The muscle pain. So we think it's the muscle, but it's not really. So the musculoskeletal applications are kind of one part of the course we teach then post operative and injury applications. So in both sports and general medicine, if you can get microcurrent onto an injury within four hours of the time that it happens, patient doesn't even bruise. We have frequent that apparently stop bleeding because you break your hip and you get the frequencies on it within four hours, and the patient doesn't bruise. You have a hip replaced, patient doesn't bruise. And Recovery happens in six weeks instead of 12 weeks. Burns, lacerations, wound healing, diabetic wounds, diabetic neuropathies. Neuropathic pain is probably the most important because there's no other treatment for it. There's no thing that works for neuropathic pain or nerve traction injuries in medicine. There is no thing that works easily or well. Then in the more complicated medical conditions, there are protocols that affect asthma beneficially. Liver disease, reducing liver enzymes. We have data on that. Congested gallbladder is simple. Gout is simple. Goiters are simple. Irritable bowel is simple. Crohn's is more difficult because very often in Crohn's, there's an underlying parasite or pathogen involved, and you have to take care of that medically. So that brings me to drive by what we don't treat, which is infection and potentially fatal conditions. We do not treat cancer, Period. End of discussion. It's really clear there's no wiggle room in the course when I teach about that with Crohn's, because if you use the frequencies for infection and the patient's pain goes down significantly, you have a reason to suspect that it is indeed a pathogen or a parasite. So the patient comes in, and their history is, this happened a couple of months ago. Their history is, I have Crohn's. I've had it for 15 years. It flares up about every six weeks. Okay, what is the only thing in the digestive system that flares up every six weeks? More or less, like clockwork? Parasites. They lay eggs. The life cycle of the parasite is about six weeks. And so when the Crohn's patient says it flares up every six weeks, you have the presumption that it is parasite. The next step is to use the frequencies that we have for parasites and confirm that when you use the frequency for parasites on channel A and combine it with the frequencies for the cecum and the appendix, which is where his Crohn's was focused, his pain went away, the swelling went away, the difficulty went away. We moved up a little bit, and you treated the next tight place, which is the gallbladder, and that responded as pain went down. And what we found is if the patient has an infection or parasite, if you run the frequencies to reduce inflammation, it'll make it worse because the immune system is using inflammation to contain the infection. So his physician had brought him to the class and I said he needs to start on an anti parasite medication today. They are staying for the course for four days. And by Sunday his pain was gone, the Crohn's was back into remission, and.

FSM did dissolve the scar tissue in his abdomen. The scarring was gone. But that's how you combine what the frequencies can do. Common sense, medical education, intuition and knowledge and medication.

It's a.

There has to be a stable state that the frequencies can contribute to. Same thing with things like constipation. The one other thing, ovarian cysts. Oh my gosh, those are so cool.

You start out with an ovarian.

It really is fun. It's so neat. You, you start out with an ovarian cyst the size of, I mean you can feel. It feels like a water balloon in.

Somebody'S abdomen and it's the size of an orange. You're palpating it.

You run the frequency for inflammation in.

The ovary and in real time, inside.

Of about 20 minutes, the ovarian cyst goes down to the size of a.

Kumquat and then it's done.

There are things that we do that.

Even I don't believe.

Ehlers Danlos, that was another thing we did this last weekend. There's a frequency for torn and broken.

And I can't even tell you what it does.

All I can tell you is it seems to repair partial thickness tendon tears, Achilles tendinopathies, rotator cuff partial tears. The pain goes down in about five minutes and then takes 30 to 60 minutes to actually repair the tendon. And it might take more than one treatment, but when you apply that principle. So we found out about the Achilles tendonitis, 2009. That's 10 years ago. Two years ago, I applied the same principle to an Ehlers Danlos patient. This last weekend we had two Ehlers Danlos patients. And it is one frequency combination.

Torn and broken on Channel A and 77 Hz, connective tissue on channel B. And you hook the patient up from their neck to their feet, punch a button, let them fall asleep on the table, come back 60 minutes later and they're joint laxity is just gone.

Wow, I almost have to interrupt that one because I know that is such a difficult, challenging condition for people. It's one that more and more commonly is coming into my. The information that I come across, lots of people that are dealing with Lyme and mold and that whole mix that do have hypermobility and Ehlers Danlos and there aren't a lot of great tools out there. So that's phenomenal. So in those people, after they do fsm, do you see then that it sounds like the hypermobility reduces?

Yes, and it stays gone. It's interesting. It will stay gone depending on how many of the EDS genes they have. I think there's four of them.

Depending on what their genetic expression is of that condition, it'll last any place, usually from two to three days up to a week.

And the other thing that's interesting is.

That the Ehlers Danlos patients, because their connective tissue kind of everywhere is lax.

That includes the neck and the gut.

And that apparently creates autonomic disturbance because the places where the vagus nerve attaches are stretchy, they don't sit still. You eat a meal, you stand up.

Your gut moves like gravity pulls on the connective tissue.

Connective tissue stretches. Well, the vagus nerve is stuck to it. And so the vagus nerve gets stuck to it. The vagus nerve gets turned down, not off, but down. Most of the Ehlers Danlos patients have gastroparesis or some form of sibo reflux because the sphincters are lax. Well, the sphincters are lax not only because of the connective tissue in the sphincter. The cases we've done in the last five years, about three years, have suggested.

That the other problem is that the.

Vagus is turned down or off. You check in Ehlers Danlos patients.

All of them have elevated heart rate. Their heart rates are between 80 and 95. You treat the connective tissue and then.

You quiet the stress centers in the brain. You turn back on the vagus and her range of motion and her fingers goes to normal and her heart rate is 67. We did that on three different patients this weekend. It's like. And these days it's like it is now becoming standardized care for these patients.

And then you can go after what.

Else is going on with the vagus is turned down.

One of the vaguses, one of the.

Roles of the vagus is to quiet the immune system, right?

That's its role.

It quiets the immune system by affecting the spleen and the macrophages. And so if the vagus is not doing its job to quiet the immune system, the immune system becomes hyper vigilant, hyperactive. And it's the immune system hyperactivity that creates the inflammation, the chemical sensitivities, the mast cell issues.

The mast cell issues.

It's like people talk about this mast cell activation syndrome because they don't have any way to fix it. So describe in great detail how complicated it is. It's fine that they can't fix it.

And it's like, no, wait, all you.

Have to do is turn it, turn.

On the vagus, quiet down the stress centers, turn on the vagus, control the immune system. Now that's a challenge if they still have active infection. But if you can balance the immune system by quieting down the stress centers, turning on the vagus, get the heart rate back to normal, get rid of the pots, and the vagus controls the sphincters. So that takes care of the sibo. Sibo's like. I hesitate to say it because it sounds, it really sounds stupid, but if you can act, if you can normalize the function of the sphincters between the large and small balls, bowel sibo is a matter of two weeks. Not two years, not 12 months. It's like two weeks. Get the sphincters to close, deal with the dysbiosis, reflux, kind of the same thing. And gastroparesis, they all go into one bucket that is now being treated by quieting the stress centers in the brain, turning back on the vagus. You don't have to do anything to sphincters because the vagus does that. That's its job.

And turning back on the vagus then also helps with the migrating motor complex issues that people have in sibo as well. Correct?

Right.

Yeah.

Because you normalize stomach acid, the pancreatic enzyme function, and gut motility. So gastroparesis goes away and the relative sibo goes away. You still have to do stable state. You still have to kill the pathogens. I am all about chemical warfare when it comes to pathogens. There is a reason God invented metronidazole. There is a reason God invented augmentin. If you've got diverticulitis, you take metronidazole and augmentin and let it us treat you with fsm.

And then.

Yes, but you do both.

So talk to us a little bit about the experience of an FSM session. How is the device applied? How does the power or intensity of the frequency that's delivered compare to, let's say, a TENS unit that people might be familiar with?

Well, the microcurrent devices are categorized officially as if they are TENS devices by the fda. That is for regulatory convenience and to keep it's just regulatory convenience. Microcurrent devices are battery operated. And so for the FDA, that means there are tens. The current is a thousand times less than tens. A thousand times. It is the Same kind of current that your body puts out on its own. So we can use adhesive electrodes. I don't prefer those because they tend to prickle on the skin even when 100 micrograms goes across, as you've seen at the meetings. We use wet towels. It requires a towel warmer and you attach the leads to the wet towel. Like if I'm treating somebody's spinal cord or vagus, wrap the towel around the neck because that way you get at the whole spinal cord and both sides of the vagus. And if you're going to treat, let's.

Say fibromyalgia from spine trauma, the other.

Warm wet towel goes around the feet. Then you cover the patient up with a soft, fuzzy blanket. And then the frequencies are applied. You can't feel the current. So the current is usually between 100, 150 microamps. For somebody, that works out a lot. There's a lot of muscle mass. We use 200 micro amps. For professional and elite athletes, we use three or 400. And that's mostly because it makes the treatment go faster. If on children, if we're treating directly on their bodies, it's 60 microamps. Use less current for smaller patient, you use less current for a more frail patient. So a 78 year old that just.

Got out of the hospital for a.

Hip replacement or pneumonia or whatever, that tends to be between 60 and 80 micrograms. So lower current. Use the adhesive pads and then the practitioner will have a list of frequencies. There are suggested protocols. When they leave the course. They have this book, but it's really interesting. The treatment has to match the individual patient. You could have shoulder pain because you played tennis and you have a partial thickness rotator cuff tear and that is treated or with a different protocol so that you treat the partial thickness tear and then you treat the muscle and you repair the tendon and then that makes the muscle pain go away. But if you have shoulder pain because you are picking pears in your Uncle Ralph's orchard and Uncle Ralph sprays pesticides and you don't metabolize pesticides, well, the way to get rid of the trigger points in your shoulder would be completely different than the tendinopathy patient. You'd have to treat to quiet the nerve and you'd have to treat to remove the toxins from the fascia and then all the shoulder pain goes away and that's better. So the frequency protocols have to match what the patient has. So what's leg pain? You can have leg pain from sciatica, which we think of as being associated with the disc. You can have leg pain from the facet joints, the posterior joints in the spine. You can have leg pain from trigger points in the muscles in your glutes, and you can have leg pain from the individual joints. The practitioner has to use the protocol that is specific for what's causing your difficulty. So that's the part that's variable. Fully 50% of the FSM workshop or training course is differential diagnosis. So the same thing like with the Crohn's patient. If I had not figured out by listening to the history that his problem had to do with parasites, if I had just treated him for inflammation, he would have gotten worse. Right. So the frequencies have to be correct. The setup is going to be so that the current runs through the area of interest. If you're treating the liver, you put one contact on the back, one contact on the abdomen, the current runs through the liver, ovaries, shoulder is neck to hand, low back to leg, the towel will go under the low back and then down on the foot. Diabetic neuropathies, it goes from the knee to the foot.

So talking more about this low level of current and its effect on the body's ability to produce ATP, or cellular energy, energy currency of the body, what the mitochondria of our cells are producing. Is it too much of a leap to say that if ATP increases from fsm, that everything in the body then is upregulated and the body can better do all of the things that it inherently knows how to do?

I love the way you put that. Yes, there's studies going. 1982 was the first one, and it showed that just plain microcurrent, just plain DC current, increased ATP production by five times in rat skin. That study was replicated in 2001 and then done in vivo in human lymphocytes in 2002. And consistently, it increases ATP production by five times 500%. So you would think that if you give the bot and that currents going to flow through the interstitial water, that is you, because you're a conductor, you're a semiconductor, that it will allow the body to do everything it does better. And specifically, when we target the tissue with the frequencies, it's as if the current gives, let's say, the liver five times the energy that it had five minutes ago, and it allows the liver to make the changes that the frequencies tell it to make.

Yeah, I mean, this is really phenomenal. So you see a lot of times, a lot of my listeners, Lyme Disease is a fairly common issue that they're dealing with. And so, you know, we're familiar with the anti this is and the anti that's. And the way that I really see FSM is that it's more about fortifying, uplifting, increasing vitality, raising our vibration so that we can execute on that inherent design. So is that a reasonable way to kind of think of it? That we're really kind of raising our vibration through the use of frequency specific microcurrent?

I'd say it's a good start. I mean it's, yes, that happens, but the effects of the frequencies are so, so really incomprehensible. Scott. It's like in addition to just making you feel better, we really do have solid, reproducible data that shows that we turn off, off inflammation, reduce LOX and cox inflammation by 62% in four minutes in every animal tested. And that lasts for any place, historically, clinically, it lasts any place from two to four hours. During the time that the inflammation is reduced, that's where your model comes in. And that says that while we can turn the inflammation down, your whole body can begin to function better and recover. When we turn off nerve pain, it's off. You go from a 7 to a 1 out of 10 pain in 30 minutes.

Wow.

And that's for 20 years. So when that happens, all of the stress centers in your brain get to recover. Your digestion starts to recover. That part's good. And then lately in the last two years, when you can reboot the vagus, quiet the stress centers and then reboot the vagus, the clinical improvement in the patient's condition is it's breathtaking. I have trouble getting my head around it sometimes because it's been such a. I stayed away from treating the vagus for 20 years. The first patient I treated was working in a cardiologist's office. After I was on functional Medicine Update In 99 or 2000, this cardiologist flew me down to his office in Beverly Hills and I spent the day working on cardiac patients. This patient came in a ventricular tachycardia. His heart rate was 140 and they had his pulse on a microphone, which made me really nervous. I'm a chiropractor. I don't treat patients in ventricular tachycardia. So I thought, well, the vagus lowers heart rate. So I ran the frequency to increase secretions in the vagus. This guy's heart rate went from 140 to about 70 in 20 seconds. It wow, it scared the heck out of me. Now it wouldn't hold because we. I didn't have sense enough at the time to address. To use a second machine to address the irritability in the heart that was causing the problem in the first place. So they went and converted him. But it's kept me away from the vagus for 18 years. And then two years ago, one of our practitioners had been using it. She reported her results and it's like. And now it has become a standard. It changes everything. So yes, we do help the body do what it does normally, better, but very specifically, we have the ability to specifically change things, processes in the body that are problematic.

So just for people listening, you've mentioned channel A, Channel B, that there's two frequencies. And so I think that's one of the unique things about frequencies, specific microcurrent. So is it reasonable to see this as kind of channel A is the what, channel B is the where. So if we're removing information, the what in the small intestine, the where. That's why there's two frequencies. What you're wanting to address and then the thing that you're wanting to address or the target of that specific frequency.

Exactly. And then experience has shown that both of those have to be correct. So somehow it is the combination of the two frequencies that has an effect in physics. It says that you have in any field where there are two frequencies crossing or mixing, you have frequency from A, the frequency from B, the sum and the difference. Historically, and this was just. It's just a matter of experience. So you treat a frequency on channel A's. The first place was I was treating inflammation in the tendon on a football player at the Oakland Raiders. And Keith Pine was treating that patient. We pleaded inflammation, then tendon. He said, I've been doing it for an hour and it's still sore. Well, the tendon was fine. It was the bursa. You go off the tendon and there's this big tender bursa. And it's like, well, the frequency for the bursa is 195 hertz and the tendon is 191.

That's only 4 hertz difference.

Same channel A, reduce inflammation. We change to the Bursa. 195. The Bursa went all smushy in 10 minutes. Then you could feel where the tendon was attached to the bone. That's the periosteum. We changed to that frequency. And after one hour, that didn't relieve the pain. When you got the correct frequency for the where, then the condition corrected.

There's so much talk these days about genetics, and I really like to look at things more as epigenetics and how we can influence our gene expression. So could we say that frequency specific microcurrent is essentially an epigenetic modifier of gene expression in the body?

That is exactly. If I could put that in print and tape, that is exactly what the data suggests that we're doing, because it is the only thing. It's the only model that accounts for all of the data. So what we do in new injuries, historically, clinically, you have to apply the protocols to stop bleeding and repair trauma within four to six hours of the.

Time of the injury.

The only thing that's different. And then if you miss that six hour window, then you can accelerate the healing, reduce the pain. But it's not magical, that first four to six hours. The only thing that's different are the genes. There are genes that turn on immediately at the time of an injury and they are off at six hours. And they are turned on by bleeding and trauma tissue fragments. If we turn off the bleeding, reduce the inflammation, repair the trauma in that first four to six hours, the healing is accelerated by double or triple. It's why we're so effective in sports medicine. But the only thing that explains that is just what you're saying. Epigenetic transformation. We affect cell signaling that changes cellular genetic expression and, and that changes epigenetic function. And one of our practitioners has come up with a model that is now quite testable. And her model is that what we're actually affecting is micro rna. It's not the messenger RNA so much as the microrna which establishes the protein configuration that is created by the messenger rna. But the phrase epigenetic expression is indeed what we're changing. That's what we think.

I know one of the protocols that people talk about a lot with FSM is the concussion protocol. So we know that when people have a traumatic brain injury, that that can play a significant role in chronic illnesses. How might FSM help to mitigate these traumatic brain injuries or concussions as a contributor to a chronic illness?

We started using the concussion protocol 25 years ago. It is treating concussion in the medulla, which are what the frequencies are for, and then addressing the pituitary. We've been doing that for 25 years and it is very effective in people.

With traumatic brain injuries.

But if you think about the relationship between the medulla and the vagus and the immune system, according to this old osteopath that gave us the Concussion protocol, that, that is the loop, that is the connection that actually predisposes somebody with not only a head injury, but even certain types of day to day stress. So if you think of a, if you hit your head, that's clear that you have shearing and injury, the medulla, and that can inflame the tracks that regulate the autonomic nervous system and the vagus and all of that. So head injuries are obvious. What is less obvious is the feedback loop or the way that we experience what this osteopath would call concussion, the way that we experience trauma that is not from direct head injuries. If you would, in your mind, sort of play back the video of when you came into an intersection on a green light and a large truck came speeding in front of you running his red light and missed you by six inches. So that stress response is literally peripheral to central. The sympathetic stress response just is this wave of neurotransmitter input through the vagus up to the medulla that upregulates the.

Stress centers in the brain.

That's what causes the copper pennies taste in your mouth, the hyperventilation, the sweaty palms, all of that fear reaction is central. How did it get there? It's the vagus. So the concussion can come from even day to day stresses. And the concussion protocol, the data that we have on it is limited. Lots of thousands, millions of anecdotes. But the data that we have from NIH and the concussion protocol shows that it raises serotonin levels. So the last 30 minutes of our NIH data was the concussion protocol. Copain came down, cytokines came down. Serotonin actually came down. While we were running the frequency to quiet the brain, serotonin came down. Then when we switched to the concussion protocol, we published six of the cases, but I had data on 13. In all 13 patients, the pain was zero. Serotonin stopped dropping, turned around, went back up. What does serotonin do? Makes you feel better, makes you more flexible. It's like, okay, good, I'm not gonna die. That's a good thing. So that's what the concussion protocol does. And it is, once you run, is subtle but profound. So in traumatic brain injuries, we treat not just the concussion protocol, but the cortex, the sensory and motor cortex, and stroke patients and head injury patients. There's one frequency combination that takes down the body pain from thalamic pain syndrome from strokes in the thalamus. Doesn't work for midbrain strokes or cord upper medulla injuries, but the thalamus itself in 20 years, we haven't found anybody. It doesn't work on. We haven't gotten anybody to publish anything on that yet because it's so hard to believe that it's going to work, that every time you use it, you kind of forget that it would be publishable. But it's so that when we work on the brain, it's very specific.

Our environment over the years has become increasingly toxic, which adds to the complication of many different types of chronic illnesses. Is there a role for FSM in terms of assisting the body in its detoxification capacity? And then potentially, is there a place for it in those that are toxic from exposure to water, damaged buildings?

That is complicated but doable. There are frequencies for toxicity, There are frequencies for mold that appear to help the immune system cope with it better. So there are frequencies for toxicity that you can run on the liver and the brain. So these are environmental toxins, organic chemicals, pesticides, VOCs, those kind of environmental toxins. Those are fairly straightforward. Lots of mileage with those with mold. Those toxins are very specific. We have two frequencies for mold, mold toxins. And the experience we have is probably in double, almost triple digits at this point. You have to correct the environmental exposure. So I have gone through that. I lived in this house that I have now. I bought it because it was completely mold free, no water excursions ever. And in a four or five year period, I had three different water leaks that resulted in stachybotrys primarily. So my own symptoms were gastroparesis, reflux, pancreatitis, pancreatic failure, all from stachybotrys. So I could use frequencies to reduce my stress response. I got my gag reflex back in a matter of two weeks instead of a year. We still had to do the binders, chlorella, clay, charcoal, cholestyramine, and I was on antifungal, xitraconazole and fluconazole and plus nasal spray because my sinuses were colonized. So. So it's an adjunct that helps the patient survive while you do the remediation and while you take care of the infection that's in the body. Mold is complicated and I'm finally after a kitchen remodel. The house is mold free and it's no longer quite the struggle. But the FSM is definitely helpful.

Let's talk a little bit about shingles. That is a condition that people suffer with tremendous pain or even post herpetic neuralgia and can go on for months and months. My understanding is that FSM can really almost make Shingles a non issue. So I'd like to hear a little bit about shingles.

Oh, it's my favorite because the thing with shingles is it shows up just as pain in the prodrome. The shingles prodrome is any place from two or three days up to a month, depending on the patient. And in that prodrome, you just have wicked pain that follows a nerve root. But most people don't think of shingles. They think of, oh, I lifted something and I have a rib out, or my gallbladder is acting up, or I've got an abdominal tumor, whatever. So the frequencies for shingles, we had one that we started out with in 1998, and that frequency you could run in the prodrome, it would take the pain away in about 10 minutes. You had to run it for, we used to say, an hour a day for three days in a row. Each time the pain would come down. And then after the third day, it just never came back. The blisters never break out. If there are blisters that have already occurred, and the blisters are less than two weeks. So if you're in the first acute phase, week one of the lesions, the frequency will take out the pain. The lesions dry up. You do two to three to four hour treatment. The lesions dry up in 24 to 48 hours, they're gone. And you don't ever have post tropic neuralgia. Starting in probably around 2009 and 10. That frequency, which had worked for what, 12 years, then all of a sudden wasn't getting it. We were getting reports that it's not working. So it first took us three months to verify that the machines were good. And it wasn't the devices not running an accurate frequency. It was that the virus had mutated, possibly due to the vaccines.

But.

But that's another conversation. So one of my colleagues has a way of dowsing for frequencies, and so he came up with a modification. So instead of 2:30 and 4:30, it was 2:36 and 4:35. And those two work together for about another three or four years. And then starting two years ago, we ended up with the third frequency. But still the effect is the same. If you can get the frequency on during the prodrome, takes the pain away within 20 to 30 minutes. So the way it works these days is use each of the frequencies for 30 minutes apiece, 20 minutes apiece. So all three frequencies run 20 minutes apiece in an hour, and then you run it for two hours, three days in a row, the pain goes away. Doesn't come back prevents the lesions from breaking out. Or if the lesions have broken out, it dries them up in 24 to 48 hours. Post herpetic neuralgia is a different problem. So acute shingles is like literally easy. Kidney stone pain, different frequency, but literally easy. Post herpetic neuralgia is a problem because the virus has destroyed the nerve, so you have to repair the nerve. And because the nerve has been disconnected from the spinal cord in the brain, because the little virus bites in it, if you want to look at it that way, you have to treat the whole connection. So you have to treat the spinal cord, the brain, pain centers, the spinal cord and the nerve all at one time. It is not a slam dunk. We get about, I'd say 70% recovery, close to 80, maybe. Cranial nerves, not so much.

Kind of continuing on for a second on the viral conversation. Dr. Klinghardt and others in the last couple years talked about this endogenous retroviral activation and how that kind of plays a foundational role in many different types of chronic illnesses. Do we know if there's a place for FSM in terms of silencing those endogenous retroviruses?

Well, no. We have a frequency for malignant virus that we use when we know there has been something like viral pericarditis or viral encephalitis, that kind of thing. But I would suggest that everybody's got retroviruses, and a retrovirus, by its very definition, has inserted itself into the cells. So I have. I don't even know how to put it. But my conception of, well, everything that's really a problem that we can't fix is because of retroviruses that we can't fix. So is it really the retroviruses or is it that the presence of whatever has turned on the stress centers, turned off the vagus, and we are confronted with a patient whose immune system doesn't make sense, whose inflammation doesn't make sense, whose pain response and stress response doesn't make sense. And if you can say, oh, there's retroviruses and we can't fix retroviruses, then okay, then you're kind of off the hook, right? You have an explanation for why the patient's chronically ill and you have no way to fix it. We can strengthen this and that, and yes, it's going to take a long time. My response to that is, if it was a universal problem, we wouldn't have the success we have in treating sibo gastroparesis, chronic fatigue and chronic pain. Right. So if that was a totally limiting factor. One of these chronically ill patients that came in would be impossible to treat because of the retroviral activity. But I've got retroviruses. Everybody does. I've been vaccinated when I was, you know, six or eight in 1950 something. And we already know that those vaccines had retroviruses in them. And so there's. There's just. If the retrovirus has inserted itself into the cellular DNA, and if we appear to be able to affect cellular epigenetic expression the way we seem to, then the retroviruses don't seem to get in our way.

Excellent. One of the things that I like to do in the podcast is kind of connect people with more challenging conditions to things they can explore and go find an FSM practitioner. For example, interstitial cystitis is another issue that is really challenging for people, and oftentimes they do lots of different things and always make a lot of progress. So is there a role for FSM with interstitial cystitis?

Good question. One of our practitioners in 2000, I'd say four or five, was a nurse practitioner who worked with her husband, who was a urologist, Maggie. She developed a protocol because they saw so many interstitial cystitis patients, she developed a protocol for interstitial cystitis. In our world, we think of interstitial cystitis kind of like RSD of the bladder. So it takes two machines. One of them treats the spinal cord to reduce central sensitization and sympathetic flow. The other one treats from the front to the back to treat actually the bladder and the nerves to the bladder. And when you look at the vagus, the vagus has pain fibers, so abdominal pain, bladder pain that's vaguely mediated. So you treat the spinal cord, you treat the nerve to the bladder, you treat the bladder itself for inflammation. And then anytime we use the frequencies for scar tissue, you have to move the tissue through the range. So as you reduce inflammation in the bladder, reduce the pain response, and the nerves, the spinal cord, and the brain and the vagus, reduce that. As the bladder fills, just before you let the patient use the restroom and empty it, you run the frequencies for scarring, scarring and fibrosis and hardening the bladder while it fills, so that stretches it universally. Every time when the patient empties the bladder, they come back and say, I held a lot more than I used to. The pain is down, doesn't hurt as much. So we treat them again. Now, the challenge that I've had is that, at least in My practice because I don't see those patients regularly. And since those patients don't expect to get better, they think it's a fluke. So getting an interstitial cystitis patient to come back in twice a week, four to six weeks, to actually put it into remission, I've never successfully done that. We teach it the interstitial cystitis protocol in every course seminar. It's just part of the standard because it is such a difficult condition. And the treatment so far, knock on wood, we've never found anybody it doesn't work on. I don't know that we have a course completion. I know Maggie had good success with it.

There is a lot of discussion these.

Days on the limbic system as well as kind of the alarm center that maybe is responding in a way that as you termed earlier, hyperactive or overreactive to a stressor, like you had mold in your house. Your limbic system responds a certain way. Your house is now mold free. But your limbic system or alarm center responds to a very small amount of mold in the same way that it respond to a significant amount of mold. And so Dr. Neil Nathan talks about a number of things in his book in terms of rebooting the limbic system. So once you've addressed that initial trigger, how do we then get the body to stop over responding? So can we use frequency specific microcurrent as a rebooting strategy for the limbic system?

That has been like the most, that has been the most significant discovery in the last two years. Because what I've been talking about with the vagus, the first step in that there is no point in turning the vagus on until you reboot the limbic system. So the non FSM ways of rebooting the limbic system take months and months. And with FSM there's one frequency that covers the whole midbrain, the thalamus, the hypothalamus, the amygdala and the hippocampus. So it covers the whole limbic system. There is a frequency to quiet the activity of the midbrain. So you run that and people that are under a lot of stress just zone out. Then you quiet the sympathetics, then you quiet the medulla, which is the reticular activating system, which coordinates with the stress center. So you have to deal with that whole track. And the reason that the limbic system is a problem is that the limbic system, the midbrain and the stress centers turn off the vagus. So after we quiet the midbrain we complete the chain, turn the vagus back on. And that seems to make the limbic system treatment more lasting because there's a feedback loop between the vagus and the limbic system. So when the stress centers go to hyperreact again, the vagus sends a signal up stream that says, I don't know what your problem is, but we're doing fine down here. Chill out, dude. So it makes it last longer and it has to be repeated. I had to use it a lot like when I had the mold exposure. You can't turn the vagus back on in that case because you still have an infection. The vagus is turned down during infection and trauma because the vagus suppresses the immune system. Right. Once the infection is gone, then the problem is getting the stress centers to turn off and the vagus to turn back on. So you have to use it wisely because it is literally quite powerful and very immediate. It's real time right now. And then you do the other strategies that are in Neil's book about how to reboot the limbic system behaviorally to support that. I run quiet the limbic system, the concussion protocol, and restore vagal function three times a week on myself. My life is pretty stressful and it just keeps it all on even keel.

We need that these days.

Yes, I should put it in the water.

So what happens? I'm sure people are wondering, with the complexity of trying to match the frequency to the specific person, to their condition in the right order and so on, what if you get the frequencies wrong with fsm, Is there any downside to that or does it just not work?

Usually if the frequency is not correct, it doesn't do anything. There are specific frequencies under specific circumstances that you do not run, period, ever. And that is covered multiple times all through the core seminar. For example, in the nervous system, if you have somebody that has had a sensory and motor cortex stroke and you run the frequencies to increase secretions in the sensory and motor cortex, you can get rid of spasticity from the stroke. Yay. However, there is a frequency to increase secretions in the midbrain, the limbic system. I meet a guy in a man in a coma, cry when I. The first I first time I'd ever used it. He had a hypoxic brain injury. We were trying to turn back on every part of his brain. I got to the frequency to increase secretions in the midbrain where the limbic system is, and his eyes filled up with tears, his chin quivered and tears rolled down his cheeks. And it's like, okay, we don't ever use that. So there's warnings everywhere that you just don't use that. It's out of all of our programs. So if somebody stumbled across that and tried it, that could be a thing. Increasing secretions, let's say, in the spinal cord, when somebody is experiencing level six or seven pain, well, one of the secretions in the spinal cord that you're going to increase is Substance P. So the pain could go up. Most of those are temporary. I, the man in the coma, I reversed the effect by running a frequency to quiet the limbic system back down. So it was a very temporary response. But those are every. Every difficulty we've ever had running a frequency is covered in the core seminar. It's repeated in everything. They get kidneys, for example. Well, there's a frequency for increasing secretions, and the kidney is an endocrine organ. And the students were warned from day one, you do not increase secretions in the kidney. It's too important. They affect things like blood formation, blood pressure, mineral balance. And there's four different secretions from the kidney, and you don't want to increase all four of them. You don't get to pick which one's going to increase. So we just don't do that. Those kinds of responses are very particular. But the rest of it, if your leg pain is from facets and somebody treats the nerve, it's not going to hurt you. Right. So if they just simply treat the wrong thing, it's not a problem.

So for people listening and potentially excited about what they're hearing in the podcast and wanting to explore fsm, how do they find somebody and then is there an option where they can then work with their practitioner and continue to do the sessions at home while they're in collaboration with their practitioner?

Yes. So we have a website, frequencyspecific.com and the practitioners that are listed on that website have subscribed to the website. We had to make it subscription to make the list more accurate. So we have many more practitioners than are listed. But the ones that are there are actively doing fsm. And so the practitioner works with you. You're having success and you need independence and maintenance. So, like the Ehlers Danlos patients, that's temporary. They have to be treated every four to five days, and there's no reason they have to come see me to do it because it's so easy. There's no technique involved. So the device company, which is separate than the seminar company, has home devices that the practitioner can program for things like Ehlers Danlos or nerve pain or fibromyalgia from spine trauma or concussion or sleep or shingles or new injury. I programmed a unit yesterday for one of my patients who's having knee surgery today. So she will put that unit on right after her surgery and she will not bruise and her recovery time will be cut in half. Those are important. There's money involved and insurance doesn't usually cover them because the devices are around 2,000, $2,500. And as far as the insurance company is concerned, you can get a tens unit for 100 bucks and it's classified as if it's a tens. But most patients see the economic benefit in it. Just what it's going to save you in co pays and office visits and medication and you get your life back. So it's usually but something that patients are willing to do.

And these are the custom care, correct? That's the home unit, right? Yeah. I think this whole conversation on fsm, it's so exciting. So many things that potentially can be done with this kind of technology. I personally have just started exploring it recently with a local practitioner after having talked with you at one of the conferences earlier this year. And I wish it was something I had explored more many, many years ago. The one opportunity I had to do it, the practitioner was several hours and just didn't get a chance to pursue it. But I've heard so many of the people that I really respect, Dr. Neil Nathan, Dr. Dave O, the list goes on and on, that have really found FSM to be a phenomenal tool. And so if people listening are interested, I definitely encourage them to go to the website and look and see who's near you and reach out and try to learn more about how you potentially can incorporate that into your routine.

And we also have there's a YouTube channel for frequency specific things like Complex regional Pain Syndrome, rsd. There are webinars for practitioners, but there are webinars for the public that go into a little more depth into the mechanisms and case reports and things we're good at treating. So that's also available. Then there's the Resonance Effect, the book that has been a great resource to get patients to understand and get a feel for what FSM does.

Yeah, and it's fantastic too, the book. In preparing for this podcast and having already been exposed to fsm, I learned a lot from it. So if people feel drawn to learn more about it, the book is the Resonance Effect. I'll put the link in the show notes as well, so that you can find, There's a website thereesonanceeffect.com and really goes into a lot more detail on the conversation that we're having today. So the last question that I have is the same for every guest and that is what are some of the key things that you do on a daily basis in support of your own health?

Oh, well, I take supplements, gluten free diet. The things that you do in integrative or functional medicine with diet, nutrition to support the stable state, you drink one to two quarts of filtered water a day. But honestly, given my personal health history, the mold exposure and the jaw infection and the whatever, if I had not had FSM to help modulate my immune system, my digestive system, my nervous system, the endocrine system, I don't think I'd be here. Cardiac system. So that's what I do is FSM and sensible supplements. And when I need an expert like Neil Nathan or Roger Bilica or Michael Gray or whoever you seek, David Musnick, you seek that help out. You follow their advice.

Shirley Hartman, you're throwing out some really good names there.

Yeah, I mean they're just like, I've been so lucky to meet these really talented, passionate, educated, intelligent people. And the fact that they see the value with FSM and it's just obvious to them, that's quite an honor. And it's a testimony to what FSM has to offer as an adjunct in anybody's healthcare. It's almost like, I wouldn't say nothing scares you, but it takes some of the uncertainty and fear out of just day to day living. My dear friend had an accident last Friday that totaled his car. He got hit, side impact tipped the car over. They pulled him out through the sunroof, had a head bump, didn't know what year it was. They called our office telling because he's associated with us. And the office staff grabbed a custom care and a magnetic converter and they were out the door before we got off the phone. They got off the phone with the police. They treated him in an emergency room in between x rays. He's 85 years old. He has no pain, no bruising. And the head bump, the concussion, it's already better. It's done. He's back to normal. This is. What day is this? Tuesday, Wednesday, whatever day this is, it's less than a week. He should be a mess, but it takes the fear out of it because you have. I can fix that. I have a way of, I have a way around that.

So, yeah, fantastic. Well, I want to thank you for being generous with your time today, for sharing all that you do with frequency specific microbes current for your training classes, for being at all these events and really sharing. I know you spoke at our Forum for Integrative Medicine just a couple months ago in Seattle and it was fantastic to have you there.

It was great.

This is a great tool and definitely encourage people to explore it and thank you for everything that you've done. You've made such a big difference in so many people's lives and bringing this technology to the world. And so I honor you and thank you for that.

Thank you so much. It's been an honor to be able to participate and to assist in anybody's healing or improvement in their life. That is an honor too, and thanks so much. You've been wonderful.

Thanks Dr. McMaken. Be well.

Have a good day.

To learn more about Today's guest, visit thereesonanceeffect.com that's the resonance effect.com theresonanceeffect.com thanks for your interest in today's show. If you'd like to follow me on Facebook or Twitter, you can find me there as Better HealthGuy to support the show, please visit betterhealthguy.com donate if you'd like to be added to my newsletter, visit betterhealthguy.com newsletters and this and other shows can be found on YouTube, iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher and Spotify.

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