Episode #64: LymeStop with Dr. Tony Smith, DC

Welcome to Better Health Guy Blogcasts Empowering your better health and now here's Scott, your Better Health Guy. The content of this show is for informational purposes only and is not intended to diagnose, treat or cure any illness or medical condition. Nothing in today's discussion is meant to serve as medical advice or or his information to facilitate self treatment. As always, please discuss any potential health related decisions with your own personal medical authority.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode number 64 of the Better Health Guy Blogcast series. Today's guest is Dr. Tony Smith and the topic of the show is limestop. Dr. Tony Smith is a chiropractor and founder of Dynamic Health, a holistic healthcare facility in Coeur d', Alene, Idaho. He became fascinated with alternative medicine while attending the University of Kansas after he was dramatically healed from a chronic disabling condition. He realized then that what he wanted to pursue was a career in natural healing. Immediately after graduating from KU, Dr. Smith enrolled at Cleveland Chiropractic College where He received his Doctor of Chiropractic degree in 1980. During his 38 years of practice, Dr. Smith passionately studied and practiced a wide range of progressive natural healing methods which enabled him to become successful at treating chronic, difficult health problems. His accumulated knowledge and wealth of clinical experience eventually inspired him to develop and teach several profound healing techniques. These include Allertouch craniobiotic technique and and Most importantly, ly stop. Lyme stop is the product of Dr. Smith's research with hundreds of chronic Lyme disease patients. Thus far, this all natural technique has helped more than 4,000 Lyme sufferers worldwide. Due to the tremendous amount of physician interest and patient need, Dr. Smith will be teaching Limestop in the near future. Dr. Smith lives in Post Falls, Idaho with his wife Lisa. He has two adult daughters of whom he is very proud. Dr. Smith is a member of the American Chiropractic association, the Idaho association of Chiropractic Physicians, and the Christian Chiropractors Association. Dr. Smith was one of the top ten doctors in Connie Strasheim's recent book New Paradigms in Lyme Disease Treatment. Ten top doctors reveal Healing Strategies that that Work before we dive in, I wanted to share that I have personally done limestop and had two visits with Dr. Tony. I had met him at two prior conferences and had read many good things about his work and after one of those conferences he was able to detect Bartonella, which had always been one of the more difficult issues for me personally. As a result of that experience and my interest in the technique a couple of years prior, I decided to explore it first further. And while I was not symptomatic from Lyme at the time I went to visit him, Dr. Toney was still able to find numerous microbial stressors in my body. It appears that I was managing them quite well with my prior work, but that several microbes were still detectable with his system of energetic testing. While I've not previously been of the opinion that we can eradicate these organisms fully and thus was not entirely surprised by his findings, it did present an opportunity to reduce my microbial burden even further. I've now seen him twice and while I cannot say any specific symptom improved. As I didn't have many issues when I went, I can say that I had a clear detox reaction that lasted for a few months and led to fatigue and some depression. I didn't expect this, and it was for me, a sign that the work was having an effect. Further, I had not had a single day in 12 years without some type of antimicrobial, and now I've been off all of them since my first limestop treatment in July of 2017. So this was also unexpected and really exciting for me personally. I am a big fan of magnetism, frequency, energy and light and tools in this realm. And I think that lime stop is something that may be helpful for those.

With Lyme to explore further.

And now my interview with Dr. Tony Smith.

I am excited today to have Dr. Tony Smith on the show. Thanks for being with us, Dr. Smith.

My pleasure, Scott. I appreciate the work you do. It's amazing. You help a lot of sick people with a lot of good information.

Thanks very much. So how did you become interested in working with people with Lyme disease? Did you have your own personal health journey?

And how did you get to the.

Point of developing something like Lyme Stop?

Well, Scott, I battled with health issues since about the mid-80s. I developed respiratory issues, all sorts of health issues. The respiratory issues were really debilitating. I finally, with my own techniques, got rid of those. And I still had some lingering issues, like with periodic fevers, joint pain, muscle aches, night sweatshirt, chronic fatigue. And I knew something wasn't right. And when I discovered the Borrelia point, which we'll talk about in a little bit, on the right shoulder, I realized that I had Lyme and I knew very little, if anything, about Lyme. And from there on out, I was able to research Lyme and discover all the different unique Lyme points that we'll talk about that I use now to treat. And so I was able to get rid of those remaining health issues. And it's been wonderful.

Yeah, it's amazing what this system can do. I wish I personally had known about it years before we crossed paths, but I think it's an exciting opportunity for people that are earlier in their Lyme journey. And certainly I've had some benefit from it as well. Why is it important when you're approaching chronic illness to consider and address allergies in someone that might also be dealing with Lyme and co infections?

You know, allergies are just another source of inflammation in the body, Scott. And we want to. Obviously, the healthiest people out there are going to be the ones with the least inflammation in their body. So our goal is to get rid of all as many inflammatory agents in the body as we can. And allergies can play a significant part of that, obviously.

So is it also that the allergies are another burden on the immune system, and if we get those kind of out of the way, that the immune system can then better support dealing with these microbes that may be present in the body as well?

Correct. That's a good statement. I agree with that wholeheartedly.

So before Lyme stop, my understanding is that you created something called craniobiotic technique, or what's known as cbt, which really did focus more in that realm of allergies. So what is CBT used for and how did it emerge?

May I read a few paragraphs from my book that really describe it? Well, not my book, but the book I was. The New Paradigms in Lyme Disease book?

Sure.

Thank you. And CBT is a technique that I developed to treat patients before I created linestop. It was developed as an offshoot of contact reflex analysis, a technique invented more than 30 years ago by the late Dick Versandahl. Dr. Versendahl. It involves using muscle response testing to obtain feedback from the body about the health stressors that are in the body, such as allergies, infectious organisms, toxins, and physiological dysfunctions. Dr. Versandahl found that when he used muscle response testing and applied fingertip pressure to specific tender localized areas or points on the body, these points would indicate what specifically was causing but causing problems in the body. For example, they would reveal whether there was an infection or allergy or a problem with an organ. They would tell him where those problems were located. He then would use primarily nutritional supplements or other remedies to correct those issues. Oh, by the way, Dr. Birsendal had a huge practice in Holland Michigan in the 80s 90s. And he taught seminars all around the country for years. Had a big following. Pretty good technique, pretty cool technique. So I incorporated CRA into my practice. And as good as the technique was, I was thrilled when in 2003 I discovered that these points on the body weren't just diagnostic, but they also could be used therapeutically. This meant that I could use them to not only diagnose infections and allergies, but also to treat them. Basically, I discovered that once a health stressor, let's say like a virus, had been revealed via these points, I could then relay that information about that stressor to the patient's brain by placing the north pole of a ceramic magnet on the brain and making contact with the area where the virus was located. As soon as the brain accurately recognized the stressor, the immune system would immediately begin to correct it. So all you had. So this pretty much eliminated. I no longer had to use any supplements to kill anything. I could use the body's own immune system. This was huge.

That's amazing.

And I could pretty much count on the immune system getting the job done. And there was no guesswork involved, no trying to figure out what remedy to use. So this was revolutionary for me and it led to me developing craniobiotic technique. And after using this for a while, soon my new patient waiting list got to be about six months long. And I began teaching it in 2006 and I taught till about 2008 and I discontinued. Then my, my 11 year old daughter at the time came down with type 1 diabetes. I couldn't fix it. I kind of went into a funk and I just quit teaching. But I started teaching again last year. So it's a great technique. And that's the technique that line stop is based on is cranial biotic technique. Same principle points on the body that relate to different infections. I found a whole bunch more points on the body that were Lyme specific. Only Lyme people had these points. There was probably about 20 of them for all these different infections. And I found a lot of them just by working on myself, trying to get rid of my own Lyme disease.

So let's talk then about Lyme. Stop. So what is Lyme?

Stop. You've talked a little about the technique.

But what is the technique if someone comes to see you and be evaluated by you and treated by you, what is the experience that they go through as part of their work at your office?

Okay, they come in, they have a consultation with me, I check them for hundreds of different food Allergies, I check all the Lyme related and non Lyme related infection points on their body to see if any of them are active. If they are, we treat them along with the allergies, we check them for nutritional deficiencies and we do all muscle testing with this stuff, obviously muscle response testing. And so our basic goal is to find the inflammatory agents, the allergies, the infections, Lyme and non Lyme related infections, and correct those using their own immune system and put them on good nutritional products to help their bodies heal.

So you're essentially using muscle testing, you're contacting various points that essentially are representations of whether or not that person may have a specific stressor in their body. So you touch a certain point, if the muscle testing change, that gives you a clue that that may be an issue for that person. And then using the magnets that you talked about earlier, that's how you're kind of getting the brain to recognize these microbes so that the immune system can then do what it should be doing to help get rid of them. Is that essentially the understanding?

Yeah. Very good analysis there, Scott. That's exactly it.

Okay.

And again, we don't have to use, even with Lyme disease, we don't have to use any remedies. Prescription. Well, I can't prescribe prescriptions, but ozone, nutritional immune boosters, you don't need any of that stuff with lime. Stop. You can pretty much count on the immune system to get it. This technique even works for mrsa. I've had several MRSA patients. Within a couple days it's gone. I mean, once that immune system locks onto these infections, based on the over 4,000 or so livestock people I've treated and the 12,000 or so CBT people I've treated, it's pretty much a done deal in most cases.

And that's one of the things that I mentioned in the intro of this show, was that since I saw you last, was the first time, when I saw you last July, you had said, you really probably don't need to continue taking those antimicrobial herbs. I had not had a day without some type of antimicrobial for Lyme infections, probably for 12 years. And I took a huge leap of faith and I said, okay, I'm just going to go with this. And I have not needed any of those things since last summer. That's something I never actually anticipated ever stopping. In fact, many people have asked me, will you just take herbs for the rest of your life? And I always said, absolutely. Why would I not? And so now we're coming up on probably almost nine months since I saw you and have not needed those things, which to me is pretty significant.

Yeah, that's the typical response, Scott, amazingly enough. And the thing that was in your favor, you know, when you saw me, you had very few symptoms. Right?

Right.

And because you had a super clean diet, you're on all. All these antimicrobials that were keeping everything knocked down. And I found a whole bunch of infections on you, I think typical amount that I usually see. But you were keeping them in check. But it was kind of interesting because. But I. So I knew you had tremendous health potential because you still had all those bugs floating around in your body. So I'm glad it worked out well.

Yeah, absolutely. So how do you determine whether or not someone may use lime stop and find that it is an effective treatment? Is there a particular type of Lyme patient that you kind of prefer to treat or that maybe it isn't ideal.

For, you know, it's really ideal for anybody. I. It works for everybody. It works as far as getting rid of the infections, Lyme or non Lyme. Now, not everybody symptoms go away if they're not Lyme related, if it's a SIRS issue or metal issue or cavitation or. But again, when I treat somebody, I'm confident that the infections I've treated are going to hit the road. So I know it's effective, but it's not always going to be effective for eliminating everybody's symptoms, especially if they're age related or if they're due to some other condition other than related to infections.

So if they're still in a moldy house or something like that, they may also need to give the environment some consideration. That's essentially what you're kind of referring to by mentioning SIRS there as well.

Right, right, right. And we see s in about maybe 1 out of 10 patients. I'm not trained in all that, but all I know is the people who don't respond, which is maybe 1 out of 10 or maybe even less, there's usually something like SIRS involved. That's the number one thing that I refer them out for evaluation.

How many times does the average person see you on their first trip? And then how many trips do they generally need to make to Idaho before their essentially graduated from the Limestop program?

Well, they come in for their initial visit. Their initial visit involves basically three days of treatment. But when I say three days, it's initial visits, like an hour, hour and a half total. And then they have four subsequent visits over the next two days that are 10 to 15 minutes each, and that's it.

And then they come back again, like four months later.

Four months later? Yes. For the recheck to make sure there aren't any stragglers as far as infections or usually. We usually don't see much, but it's kind of a little cleanup visit for anything that we possibly didn't get on the first go round.

And then for many people, is that the last time they need to come see you?

We've got it pretty well dialed in now to where that. That is usually it. Some people say, boy, I really would like to come in another six months just to get checked again. I go, yeah, sure, fine. That's fine.

Okay, very good. So what's the scope of the different types of organisms that limestop can help the immune system start to recognize and address? And is it helpful for things beyond Lyme and CO infection? So we get into the realm of parasites and fungal overgrowths and viruses and other bacteria. How many of those things can Lyme stop help with?

Oh, gosh, there's a big old list here. But. Well, I mean, we can treat Aspergillus, candida, protozoa infections, basic bacterial infections, viruses, Epstein Barr, Sibo C. Diff. There's points for all these different infections on the body that we've discovered over the years. Borrelia, babesia, Bartonella, Myco pneumoniae, Chlamydia pneumoniae. There's about eight different Lyme viruses we discovered. Cytomegalo, HHV6, Protomyxoa, Rickettsia ehrlichia. Let me tell you how we discover these points, Scott. You can first say, okay, this say it's like Borrelia, finding this point on the shoulder. It's right over the right AC joint. That point a lot of times is real tender on people when they have Lyme. But if you hold a bottle of cemento, which is a remedy for Borrelia, over that point and you're using muscle response testing, the person's arm will just blow out. It'll go weak. So using that same principle, using that same principle, you can use any other remedy, or energetically imprinted vial and hold it over different areas of the body. Let's say it's an Epstein Barr test vial. It has the energy of the Epstein Barr. The Epstein Barr point is right about where the right nipple is on a man. Of course, it could be lower on a woman, but that point will be really tender. Most lying people, 90% of them have Epstein Barr virus. But the Epstein Barr virus will test positive, or the vial. The test vial will test positive over that Epstein Barr point. It'll cause a weakness. So the way we found all these points was using these energetically imprinted vials of all these different substances, cruising the body with them. And if it tested positive over a certain area, go. Okay, that's the point for blah, blah or blah blah. You know?

Yeah.

So amazing. So we ended also. Let's say it's. What would be another example? Oh, gosh, there's so many.

So the nice part is you can. If there's something that comes up that you don't already know that a point exists for, you can then use this technique that you're talking about to extend your lime. Stop program. Right. You can find a point, potentially that would help the immune system to then recognize a new microbe of some type.

Correct? Correct. It's been about a year since we found any new points. We've got a whole bunch of them now. And addressing these points seems to be getting most people.

Well, yeah, that's fantastic.

The ones we found the most. So that obviously they're most. The most important.

So let's just get your thoughts on.

The prevalence of some of these organisms in terms of how often do you see certain things in your patient population. So how common is it for you to have someone come in that's there for Lyme. Stop. That does test positive for some type of parasite or protozoan organism? Is that common or uncommon?

Everybody has protozoa in their body, and we've identified five unique protozoa points. And what's interesting is when we know we've taken care of all the protozoa, they'll test positive or negative on an antiprotozoa drug like maybe Alinea. So we know we've gotten all the protozoa in the body.

How about the larger parasites? Are those common or uncommon?

Yeah, there's a. That's a good question. There's a worm point that actually is one of the original CBT points, or CRA points. If you slide your fingers about 2 inches to the left of the belly button, applying moderate pressure, you'll usually find a tender spot right about there. And that's the classic worm point or parasite point.

So I still have a black circle there from your Sharpie. I remember you drew that point on me with the sharpie.

Yeah. So, you know, we kill the adults, and then we tell the patients how to kill the hatchlings that occur from the eggs that are left behind by using that point themselves. But that's a classic point. Or there's a virus point about 2 inches below the belly button that is tender on most people. Every Lyme patient has that particular virus, which relates to the liver, which we'll talk about a little bit. But. And again, the borrelia point. On a lot of people, they say, yeah, my shoulder's been killing me right there. A lot of these points get really hot when they're active. And that borrelia spirochet point right at that right AC joint. It's right about there. Boy, that you poke around there. You have Lyme. You'll find it.

How common is it for you to find that someone's also dealing with Candida or Candida?

Yeah. How do you do say that anyway? I never did.

Well, Warren Levin years ago was an expert in this realm, and I did an article with him, and he said the correct pronunciation is Candida. And yet every time I said candida, people looked at me as though I didn't know what I was talking about. So I kind of went back to.

Candida because it gets confused with Canada. You know, I've got Canada.

So Candida. How common is that? That. That comes up in patients when you're testing?

I would say about 20% of the time.

Okay, so not as much as the parasites.

No, no parasites. And just about everybody has the worm point that's active and one or two protozoa points that are active. And a lot of times these guys may not be symptomatic either with those with them, but they're, you know, they're obviously cause issues.

And how often do you see things like aspergillus and some of the clues about those mold type scenarios?

Oh, my. Aspergillus is really common. I see it in about 70% of patients. And it'll. And if you have chronic sinus issues, usually aspergillus is a factor. If you have multiple airborne allergies, aspergillus is the culprit causing the sinuses to react to everything in the air. It can get in the bronchi also, and it can get in the blood.

And do you think that that's coming from water damage, building exposure, that you're just constantly being exposed to? Or can that just be a common overgrowth, even just from outside environment?

Just from the outside, from the soil, you know. But I tell you, a lot of people got that very, very common.

So let's talk a little about the Epstein Barr and other viruses that you come up with. It Sounds like those are almost universal, that you see some viruses in everyone that's coming in with Lyme, essentially.

Yeah. There's, you know, Epstein Barr is present in about 90% of the Lyme people out there. So again, if you feel down there right about the right nipple, there'll be a hotspot. You know, there's so many things that can drag a Lyme person down. And if you miss one of them, like, if you miss Epstein Barr, they're still going to have chronic fatigue. You can kill out all these other infections. If you live or leave one key thing like a protomyxoa, they're still going to be wasted, they're going to be tired, they're going to have joint pain. And so that's why it's so important to try to isolate, find all these different infections, get rid of it, every last one that you can. So you're not leaving any one of these that may still cause long term chronic issues for these patients. It's a real responsibility. But.

And what's interesting too with Limestop is if you're all of these different microbes with antimicrobials, for example, you could create a very significant Herxheimer reaction in a person. And my recollection from Limestop is that the immune system kind of gates that to some point where there is a detox reaction. I absolutely had some detox reactions, but they're generally fairly tolerable. And the immune system has some intelligence about how, how that process goes after Lyme. Stop.

When the. Yeah, when the patient comes in for their first visit. We treat probably a minimum of 15 different infections at once. We get their immune system to lock on to all those infections. And when I first started doing that, I thought, oh, my gosh, I want to kill anybody from the overload of all the toxins from the die off. But what we found is for the next six weeks to three months, the immune system will regulate the die off. We regulate the killing to where people have, like, ups and downs. They'll feel good one day, not so good the next as they go through this detox process and the body modulates this. When I see these horrendous hertzheimer reactions on YouTube and what have you, I'm going, my gosh, what's that all about? Because my patients don't experience that. They'll experience like, like you said, fatigue. They may have a global headache that comes and goes. They may have some nausea from the toxins dumping into the intestine, but we don't See those horrendous Herxheimer reactions, which are an overload of the liver, which we'll talk about more when we talk about the liver.

So how common is it for you to see Bartonella and or Babesia relative to bar Borrelia? Is everyone essentially co infected?

Yeah. Here's the deal, Scott. If you've got Borrelia, you're going to have at least nine other Lyme related infections in your body automatically. Isn't that scary? So if you get bit, that bite contains, that saliva contains a minimum of 10 infections, Lyme related. For example, if I see Borrelia, I will also. This is the ones we see 100% of. Pretty much if you have Borrelia, you're automatically going to have Babesia or Bartonella. You may say, well, gee, I don't have any symptoms of Babesia, but that's one of those things where you can have very little symptoms and still have babesia. That's a well known fact. You don't have to have night sweats. So you'll have Babesia, Bartonella, you'll have Myco pneumonia, Chlamydia pneumoniae, you'll have about four different Lyme viruses. You'll have what's called a Lyme brain virus, which we identified, which is pretty cool. And pretty much Epstein Barr. 90% of the time you'll have Epstein Barr. So yeah, it's a whole can of worms there, so to speak. When you get bit, it's. So when we talk about a vaccine for Lyme disease, okay, what are we creating a vaccine for? Borrelia. Borrelia, a lot of times isn't the bad boy.

Right.

You know, this is circulating through the bloodstream, causing some inflammation and it's in the spleen and blood, but it's not the one taking people down typically. So I know that's a future question, but a vaccine for Lyme is just ludicrous.

Well, and every time I see some.

New big treatment for Lyme that's specifically targeting Borrelia, I have the same question.

But what about all the other things?

Even if you could snap your fingers and make Borrelia alone go away, that may not lead to people feeling better. And if all you did, even in Lyme stop was make Borrelia go away or the immune system start to address it, as you've already mentioned, it doesn't mean the person will become asymptomatic because they still have all of these other layers of things that their body needs to deal with as well.

Right. Right on.

So let's talk about the viruses you mentioned. You know, Epstein Barr virus, HHV6. I know you have several viruses that you call Lyme viruses A through H. The last time I heard, you talked about the Lyme brain virus as well. So what is the role of viruses in Lyme patients? I know I've heard you say in the past, maybe even the biggest problem.

Potentially, I really believe it is these Lyme viruses you were talking about A through horizon. Let me just give you an example. Like Lyme virus A, we find in the joints. Well, let me just say this first. When the joints are involved, it's typically viral related. There's a two Lyme viruses, Lyme virus A and E, that are present in everybody. The really severe type of joint issues are borrelia. And I see them maybe 10, I see that maybe 10% of the time where you really get the arthritis and the swelling. But joint issues are typically caused by viral infections. Lyme carditis is usually viral. We call it Lyme virus A. And I've never been able to, I've always been able to knock out Lyme carditis in a relatively short period of time. And it relates to a virus. Borrelia can get in the heart. It can go anywhere, obviously, but for Lyme carditis, you can flood that body with antibiotics thinking it's borrelia or bartonella or whatever. You're not going to get it typically. And I think that's why people are dying every year of Lyme carditis. So it's the heart, it's typically viral. So Lyme virus A we find in the joints, the heart, small intestine, the liver, Lyme virus B we find in the blood, the small intestine, Lyme virus C and D, small intestine, A lot in the small intestine. Lyme virus E in the joints, F, we find in the brain, joint cerebrospinal fluid, G, in the small intestine, H, in the small intestine, typically. But we find it in the brain too. And there's what we call a line brain virus. That's a point that causes subtle anxiety and brain fog. It's not as bad as Bartonella, but it still creates some brain issues. And yeah, so there's really 19 Lyme infections that we've identified and are able to treat.

So let's take Epstein Barr as an example. Once you've treated someone with Lyme, stop for Epstein Barr virus. How easy is it for them to then become reinfected in the future?

Real easy. If their partner has it. So we always encourage their partner to come in and we treat them complimentary because it's a kissing disease. It's mono, you know, so again, if they get reinfected with edv, I mean, that can drag them down. They can think, oh, all my Lyme symptoms are returning, when actually it's just the edv.

So do you recommend then that when people are coming for Lyme stop. That their partner also is being treated the same way?

Yep, sure. Sure do.

Good to know. So let's talk about Borrelia, Bartonella, Babesia, the things that people think of as the three Bs of Lyme disease. I'm wondering if you've observed specific places in the body where you find in your testing that these specific microbes stress the body the most. And is one of those three standing out to you as causing more problems, symptomatically for people than others?

Well, it all depends on what type of symptoms you're talking about, Vera Scott. But Borrelia, again, it can cause the worst type of joint pain. It circulates in the blood and spleen. It can go to any weakened area of the body. If it's in the brain, it'll cause more emotional issues. You know, anxiety, depression, Babesia. It'll be in the blood and spleen. It can be in the kidneys and bladder too. It could cause interstitial cystitis. Those little protozoa can get in there. We've seen that number of cases. Bartonella. Bartonella, once it's in the brain, that causes the worst type of neurological stuff. You know, I've seen seizures and tremors and all sorts of motor nerve stuff. That's Bartonella. That can be a bad one. And it also gets in the small intestine. That can create a lot of havoc with the small intestine.

I know you've talked about neurological Lyme in the past, and it sounds like when people have symptoms, symptoms of neurological Lyme, that Bartonella is probably the bigger player in that scenario of the Lyme and co infections, right?

Yeah. 80% of the time, if it's in the brain, it's Bartonella.

Yep. That's a big happy bad one. In fact, that was part of the reason that I came up to see you in the first place, because that was the one thing you were still detecting at the conference last year. Year with some Bartonella areas where I was having some inflammation. What are your thoughts on the potential for sexual transmission of Lyme disease or transmission of Lyme disease and co infections through pregnancy?

Lyme disease through pregnancy. Let me just say first, I taught one other gentleman, a colleague of mine in Wisconsin, this technique. He's been using it for a year and a half and we've been collaborating, comparing notes and we both came to the conclusion since we're able to test people for Lyme so easily, you know, we can just test a whole family in a matter of a few minutes. You know, we don't have to have the blood tests and all that. We can confidently check people for Lyme. Lyme disease. As far as maternal transmission, there is about 70% placental transmission or so. If you line a family up, odds are 70% of those kids are going to have Lyme, but the mother had it when the child was in utero.

And was not at the same time being treated for Lyme disease. Right?

Yeah, yeah. And what was the other part of that question?

Sexual transmission.

Potentially sexual transmission. I think it's overrated. I think maybe Ben and I, my colleague, I think it's maybe 10 to 15%.

Okay, so fairly low.

Although it's a spirochete, you know, it's not like syphilis.

In those people that come to your office and are the sickest of the sick, are there common microbes or common threads or observations that you see in those people that are really the sickest of the people you work with?

Well, again, what kind of sick, you know, what part of their body is the sickest? I guess the ones that have the most fatigue have that proto mixoa. If you ask a Lyme patient, on a 1 to 10 scale, if one's barely able to get out of bed and 10's being great, where would you rate your energy? If they say 1 to 3, they have proto mixoa. The average Lyme patient seldom exceeds a six. They're usually around a five. So that's an immediate red flag. I go, okay, they usually have proto myxoa, that protozoa infection that can just causes a major, much worse than Epstein Barr, major fatigue and brain fog. And again, we talked about Lyme carditis. That's, you know, that's that Lyme virus A typically, although Borrelia maybe 10% of the time could get in there and do that. GI wise, I would say SIBO with Bartonella, that's the most GI upset.

I think people don't realize that Bartonella can play a major role in a lot of these GI related issues. And it's interesting to me and I could be completely wrong on this, but in people with sibo, rifaximin is the common pharmaceutical medication used. And it's a variation of rifampin that's not systemically absorbed. And rifampin is a pharmaceutical drug for bartonella. So I often wonder how much of this sibo is also bartonella. And it sounds like you observe that as well.

Well, I know that there is actually. You know, we found a SIBO point on the body, and the way I discovered this was I had a SIBO patient and I wasn't that familiar with it, and I said, well, do you have the drug you're taking? It was the first one you mentioned. And so I scanned her body with this drug, and I found the point for sibo, and it's right above the left collarbone, right. Right about the medial third of the collarbone, right here. And I started treating people with that. I treated a reporter from LA who had it, and she had had the breath test before and after, and she said, I can't believe it, it's gone. She'd had it for quite a while. So that's the back. I know sibo could be caused by other things, too, but primarily, I believe it's bacterial. And the point for it's right up here. You treat that while you make contact with the small intestine, stimulate the brain, brain gets on it, knocks the SIBO out. Of course, the SIBO can come back especially well if these people have lyme infections. I think the reason that a lot of these people have sibo is because there's so many of these Lyme infections that inhabit the small intestine and ileocecal valve, which kind of slows everything down there. And so the bacteria build up and you get your sibo. But once we clear all that stuff out, all those. All the inflammation, all the organisms, these people typically do well long term.

And that's interesting that you had someone where they had done the breath testing before and after and could show that they were now no longer dealing with sibo. That's phenomenal, because a lot of people with Lyme, I don't know. It seems more and more over the last several years that these SIBO type presentations are becoming more and more common. So to have a tool like Limestop where you can very effectively deal with that issue, I think that's significant.

It really is. Sometimes it sounds too simplistic, but all I can tell you is it works. And I wouldn't be using it if it wasn't. I'm a real people pleaser. I got to get results, and I got to get them quickly. That's what makes this technique nice.

So we know that detoxification is critical in people dealing with Lyme disease. We know that the liver is one of the key, key organs of detoxification. Do you find that it's these pathogens that's really burdening the liver? And then does addressing the pathogens with limestop allow the liver to function more optimally to help support the broader needs for detoxification of other things like metals and chemicals and pesticides and things of that nature?

Yeah, Scott, I can't emphasize this enough. The liver is a huge deal with Lyme people. Most lyme people have one. Every Lyme person has at least one viral infection in their liver. 50% of them have two. And if you look at these Lyme people, chronic Lyme people, if you look at these chronic Lyme people, they will, the sign of this liver issue is their cheeks will be a little bit rosier than what they should be. They'll be yellow around their eyes or their mouth here. If you just look at their general skin tone, the front part of their forearms, they'll be yellow. Their overall skin tone will be yellow. They'll be dark under the eyes. This is all sign of liver dysfunction. And you got to get that liver working. Well, I think a lot of hertz reactions are typically the liver, the sick liver not being able to handle the die off that occurs from more aggressive pharmaceutical or some of these other techniques out there. The liver just cannot process these toxins because it seems like the patients who I have had the cleanest livers have the least detox.

Yeah, and that makes sense. The more we can support detoxification, the more the body can deal with the die off effects. But what's interesting with your way of looking at it is that these viruses and organisms themselves are such a burden on the liver that just by helping the body to get rid of those, the liver can then start to function better and better support the body's need for other types of detoxification. It sounds like, right.

The first thing we do with these people is get them on a liver detox for three weeks after I've treated the viruses or any other path. Sometimes you can get protozoa in the liver too. And Ehrlich, I can get in there and start taking that, get that, get that liver to start flushing those dead organisms, start clearing out those pathways. So as they go through this six to 12 weeks detoxification process, it's going to be much more comfortable for them. That liver is going to be healing up it's going to be dealing with them better. We found that worked so well for these people. We have very little issues with any significant hertz reactions as a result.

We know that heavy metals are a big issue in people dealing with chronic Lyme. We know that mold toxins are a big issue as well. Is there some aspect of Limestop that can detect these types of toxins and help the body then to eliminate them, or is that something that's done kind of outside of the framework of Limestop?

Yeah, unfortunately, I can't do everything. Livestock can't do everything. But that's one thing that we refer out. So I can't pick up those toxins. So we send them out to somebody else. If that's an issue, if that's a perceived issue.

So in someone, then let's talk about the water damage building scenario. If someone has exposure to water damage, buildings especially part of their condition, it's not necessarily that Limestop itself can deal with that exposure, but what it can help with is the allergy response to some of those molds, like Aspergillus and Penicillium, for example, so that they're not having quite as much of a dysregulated immune response when they are exposed, potentially, right?

That's exactly right. Yeah. We can get rid of the allergic reaction to it or any infection. So any mold allergy or infection we can knock out.

And then they still need to find and eliminate the source of the ongoing exposure to really complete the whole circle.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

In the realm of Lyme and co infections, one of the big challenges is this sludge layer that these microbes produce to kind of hide and protect themselves under. We call this a biofilm. Is Limestop able to then get at microbes that are in these protected communities? How does that work?

Well, the magnetic field seems to do it. And also there's manual. The back of the hand has a negative electromagnetic field too, which is very therapeutic, which we use a lot in our treatment. And it really interacts well with the patient's own electromagnetic field. And they can penetrate. It's amazing. Based on the results we've gotten over the last eight years, I would suspect that these treatments are taking care of them because we don't have relapses like due to biofilms breaking up and these organisms spreading. I just haven't seen it.

Nice.

And when you look at all of.

The things that you've treated in patients, are there certain ones that you find they just bring the most significant Relief. And are there certain ones that you find are the most persistent, meaning that it may take a couple of visits to be able to clear them?

Well, they see us for, you know, total of five visits. So I can, I keep checking them after the initial one when we treat most everything. The rest of the four treatments are basically fine tuning, checking with the vials until we can get them to a point where they test negative on all of our vials to where like in your case, you know, checking negative for rifampin or cemento or you know, some of these other ones and all the points you test clear also.

So, yeah, so it doesn't sound like any of them are particularly more difficult to address with the Lyme stop system.

Sometimes on the second visit or on the second on the recheck, a lot of times we'll find some borrelia in the bladder. And I think that's, I don't know, because it's on the way out or what. Bartonella can sometimes take two or three treatments during the initial treatment series. I don't know if that's because it's. The small intestine is so large. You know, you got 20ft of small intestine there, you get Bartonella in there. But by the time of their follow up recheck, we can pretty much have a handle on it. We can clean them up and address any again, issues that. Small issues that might still be there.

So when someone does Lyme stop, is the thought process that the bugs are actually gone or is it that they just no longer have an effect on the person and they're now having an appropriate interplay between their immune system and whatever microbes may still be present.

All I can tell you, Scott, I really don't know, but I really believe that the treatment either totally eradicates the organisms or it knocks them down so far that the immune system can keep them in constant check from there on out.

Either one is a beautiful thing. Yeah.

And what's interesting is, you know, if you just have a Borrelia can hide in the tooth canals, we address that too. But if you leave one untreated tooth canal that has borrelia in it, sometimes bartonella can get in there. But it loves to hide in the tooth canals, especially the lower ones. If you leave one untreated tooth and I'm testing you and I find that cemento still tests positive or doxy, then I know I've missed something. And sometimes it'll be in a tooth I missed. So that's how exact it is. So after I treat that tooth, if they check negative on the cemento or doxy, then I know their immune system now has the entire picture perfect.

What is a common experience? Someone comes for treatment after the first series of visits. What's the common experience over the next few weeks and months? Do they have commonly a detoxification reaction? How common are significant reactions? And then do they need to support the detoxification with supplements during that initial period as well?

Yeah, we put them on a number of. Initially when we treat the liver, we take them through the liver detox, we have a minimal supplements, and after that three weeks, we gradually amp them up as the liver. You know, a lot of times a sick liver can't even handle natural products, you know, much less prescription. So three weeks of liver detox and we gradually amp up their nutritional needs up to a four week, up to that four month recheck.

And talk about.

The reactions a little bit that they commonly have. What are the most common things? Can people function pretty well if they're working? Are they kind of knocked out for a period of time? What's the common response to treatment?

It's unusual for them to not be able to function. What you'll typically experience, as I don't know if I mentioned before, they'll have waves of fatigue that come and go as the body knocks it off at safe intervals and knocks the infections off. And most people can function. You seldom hear about somebody being bedridden. That would be a little unusual. So our own incredible brain immune system says, okay, I see all these infections now. I'm locked onto them. Now where do I start and how can I safely do this?

Yeah, and I would say my experience was a need for more sleep. I noticed I probably needed about an extra hour of sleep for the first, probably eight to 12 weeks, I would say. And then I had periods of depression that I hadn't had before, which was really interesting. And I could kind of, I just kind of knew, like, okay, this is just part of the process and it certainly passed. But it wasn't, it wasn't a traditional Herxheimer reaction. Like, you know, I just can't get out and do the things I need to do.

Yeah, fatigue is the big one. When I treated you, I was thinking, this guy has so many infections on board, if he doesn't go through some type of detox, I'll be shocked. Even though he feels pretty good, you know, he looks good. And so when you told me that, I go, oh, good, because I. But again, fatigue, you can have depression too. And some people get irritable as they're going through that process or it's kind of edgy. But.

I think I know the answer to this question. But people ask, do they still need to continue antimicrobials for Lyme and co infections after they see you?

Well, just like you, Scott, it's, you know, you didn't have to, you know, there legally you kind of got to watch it. You can't say, you know, no, I want you all, I don't say that anyway. But you have to discontinue these antibiotics. But some people are just scared to death of getting off them, especially if they've been on them for years. So I just say, go ahead, that's fine. You know, it's not going to be real beneficial for the liver detox. But, but you know, you don't want these people having anxiety and fear over not being able to take something they've been taken for years and they're thinking that that's going to be the answer. But, but no, you know, they just don't need to do it. I mean the immune system gets the job done a whole lot better.

What are some of the lifestyle factors that you think are important for your patients to support their healing while they're also doing your Limestop program?

Oh, you know, I encourage them to exercise when they feel like it. They're going to be on an anti inflammatory diet for at least six months. Massage, chiropractic, there's just a whole bunch of things.

So you mentioned the anti inflammatory diet. Talk a little bit about the types of diets that you might recommend based on what you find with certain people. I know in my case I had the great fun of doing the 21 day Candida diet. And I think I ate at Chipotle 16 times in 21 days because I could have the chicken and I could have a little bit of. And that was, you know, so you.

Were a low carb guy.

So what are the dietary recommendations that you normally suggest for your patients?

Well, it depends on like you say, if it's Candida, you know, the regimen there, you could tell people that you have to avoid.

For Candida it was pretty much, it was more what could you eat in that realm? And I just did the same things very repetitively during that 21 days.

Yeah, it's the anti inflammatory diet is, you know, basically all those things that cause inflammation in your body. Grains, meat, meat, sugar, dairy, caffeine, alcohol. I mean there's a, there's a long list but you know, we give that to the patients when they come in. But boy, just what's cool is we're removing the infectious organisms and allergies that are causing inflammation in their body. They're decreasing the inflammation by getting on this anti inflammatory diet. And when that inflammation starts going down, they start feeling better when those infections start leaving.

So someone comes for treatment, they do the supplement program that you also put together for that first four month period. By the time they come back, most of their supplements are done. And then are there specific things that you recommend they stay on long term to continue to support their health, or do you find that people generally, generally don't need ongoing supplementation?

Well, at four months their body's not going to be totally healed. They may be symptom free. That's not unusual. The four month period, they should feel at least 50% better. We had them fill out another symptom checklist and all those, the frequency and severity of their symptoms should be at least 50% better. At four months, again, a lot of them are symptom free. But as far as the nutritional supplements at that time, we'll put them on a multivitamin, a pharmaceutical grade fish oil, D3 probiotic. Adrenal support. Adrenals typically take a while longer than that to get built back up. Extra magnesium. Magnesium is a big one. You know, Lyme really zaps your body magnesium. But even for somebody that doesn't have Lyme, 4 milligrams per pound of body weight is good. Okay, so if you're 100 pounds, 400 milligrams, that's what they're saying now. And for adults, we check their neurotransmitters to see if muscle tests to see if they need gaba. Acetylcholine, serotonin or dopamine. Yeah, dopamine.

Thanks. That happened to be the one that I needed. That's why that one was fresh in my mind there.

So that's. So we can determine their neurotransmitter requirements by just muscle testing the product. So neurotransmitters, everybody, every adult should be on a neurotransmitter, you know, get checked and see which one they need because we're all low on one of them. And the brain's everything. People who typically have an infected brain need gaba, you know, GABA to calm that brain down.

And a lot of people with anxiety and sleep issues, I mean, that can be really supportive for all of those things, which is great.

And with D3, you know, when your liver is sick and your small intestine sick, your need for D3 goes way up because those organs really help you absorb D3.

It's actually very interesting that you say that, and there could be a couple of explanations here, but my personal need for vitamin D3 has gone down tremendously. And it could be in part from limestop. It could also be in part that I do some narrowband ultraviolet light therapy that helps the body in creating vitamin D. But I used to take 12,000 units of vitamin D and be in the 60 to 80 range. I now take 2,000, and my vitamin D level is 130. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. And maybe I knew the light therapy had an effect there, but it sounds like what you're seeing is that as people do the line stop work, the liver's functioning better and so on, that the body maybe doesn't need as much supplemental vitamin D. Yeah, the liver is big with that.

When I test somebody on D3, when I first see them, they may test for 20 or 30,000 milligrams of D3 just because that liver just isn't. The liver and small intestine aren't functioning properly.

So to give listeners a little bit of a better understanding of Lyme. Stop. Maybe you can tell us about your most. One of your most dramatic cases.

Okay, this is a good one. The gentleman was a retired contractor who was on a mission trip in Uganda, and he got bit by something over there. He goes, I remember this weird kind of neurological sensation when this thing bit me. And when he came back, he started developing these upper body tremors. And over the next nine months, these tremors got worse to where when I saw him, he was like this. Wow. And he'd been to numerous neurologists in the northwest. And the consensus was, we don't know what's going on. We think it's some sort of autoimmune reaction. I mean, this guy was, you know, so bad that he couldn't do his activities of daily living driving. So he came in for a CDT exam. So we'll. A lot of patients will just do that, the basic infection and allergy exam. And I didn't find anything in that would relate to what he was experiencing. And I said, let me just do something. So I held a bottle of rifampin over the. Over his brain point, and his arm went weak. And I'm going, you know, I think you got Lyme. I think you got. I'm not pretty sure of this. You've got bartonella in your brain. That's causing this. And he said, nah, nah, no way. I don't believe it. And I said, you know, I hated to see him leave the office like that guy. I couldn't let him leave. So I said, look, I can't remember the guy's name, but let me do this. Let me just treat your brain for Bartonella, Okay? Let's just do that. I'll just do it for you. No, no charge. So I treated his brain. He lives down. He lived down in Harrison, not far from us here, so they're really close. And two weeks later, his wife walks in the office to buy some vitamins, and she goes, just got to tell you that. Just call him Bob. Bob is totally fine.

Wow.

And his tremors were getting gradually worse, mind you. And he was freaked. And the whole family's freaking out because this guy. Where's this going to lead to? So she goes, yeah, he's totally still, and I want to sign him up for the rest of the program. So it's funny because we found the son had Lyme and his grandson and a couple other people in his family that came up and got treated. But really, really cool story. And we've seen. So that was the most. Visually, the visual impact of that was amazing. I wish I had him on video before and after, but I couldn't muscle test him. I had to use one of my assistant's arm to muscle test him with because he was just all over the place and she was exhausted at the end of the exam.

So feedback on Limestop has been very positive, I would say. I participate in the Facebook group as well, and had kind of followed that for a long period of time, probably even before I met you a couple of years ago at the conference in San Diego. Are there any projects going on in terms of research projects or people trying to look at other markers and things before. Before and after doing Lyme, stop to show some of the things that it may actually be doing.

You know, we talked about doing maybe a C4A study, inflammation study. No, I haven't done anything personally. No. I. Maybe I'm too busy or something. I. Yeah. And I'm not a scientist kind of guy. You know, I'm. I don't know what the term is, but I love inventing things and. But the feedback we've gotten typically, is from our patients who are seeing other doctors who. I treated them and they went back and the doctor checked them and he goes, what have you been doing? Your inflammation markers are way down. That's the thing we Commonly hear.

Okay, perfect.

We had one guy in the area that does live cell microscopy. It was a dark cell microscopy. Dark field, yeah, dark field, yeah. There you go. And the gal I, three months after I treated this gal, she had another check from. And he goes, wow, 80% of the bugs are gone. Wow. So it's just a matter of getting it put together and doing it. But I have so much confidence in the technique that we were talking. But maybe the inflammation marker is the way to do it, because that's the feedback I'm getting that the inflammation goes way down.

How many people have been through the Limestop program?

I would say we don't keep exact track of numbers, but I think it's around a little over 4,000 right now.

And in those 4,000 people, do we know approximately the number of them or percentage of them that feel like the program did provide them with some benefit?

No, we don't actually. We haven't kept good track of that. But the one thing to note is as we develop this technique, we knew of a few infections initially and that gradually grew as we found more and more. So the initial groups we were treating, we knew we cleared out those infections, but we weren't yet able to identify the other infections that were still out there that we weren't aware of. But we're at the point now where we feel like we have a real good handle. We just haven't been able to find anything else. Any other Lyme infections to where when people come back in again, at least 50% of, or at least everybody who comes back in for their recheck, or most of them are feeling at least 50% better. Most.

A lot of them are.

Well, so that's been over the last year since we haven't discovered any more points.

So would we say that with all of the things that you currently do as part of the Limestop program, Do you think 50% of people benefit? Do we think it might be 80%? That if they do the full series of treatments, they come and see you at least twice over that four month period. Do you have any?

Based on the results we're getting, I'd say around 90%.

Yeah. That's phenomenal.

We may get one out of 10 that comes back in and says, I'm not feeling any better. It's almost a little strange now when somebody says, I feel better or I feel worse, you go worse. If they feel worse, we look to reinfection, which we could talk about when you're ready. But.

So what role does placebo effect have in this realm? Do we think that there is a. Is that part of the reason why this or other things might work for people?

I don't think the placebo effect relates to our technique beings as I think the placebo effect. When people go through extensive, lengthy, extensive, expensive, lengthy care that may be real invasive and they spend a lot of time there. I think those are the people that get the best placebo effect because they're going, my gosh, I'm spending all this money time, I'm getting all these different treatments. This has to work. Of course, I see a number of those people and when they come to see me, they go, are you kidding me? You're seeing me for an hour and then four or 15 minute appointments. And that's gonna get it. I don't have to take anything to kill anything. You're joking, right? So some of these people go out to shaking their heads and they go, no way.

So your treatment.

I don't get the placebo effect.

You get the nocebo effect.

I get the reverse placebo effect.

Right.

I. But it's true. I mean, I think sometimes people think the farther they travel, the more money they spend, the more they get hit with, the better they're gonna do. I had a gal named Hannah from North Carolina. Interesting story. She came in for a four month recheck. She was doing a lot better. And she said she got. Her eyes were kind of getting a little misty. She goes, Dr. Smith, I just want to tell you that after four months of having. After you've treated me, I feel better than I have in years. And I've been to every. Just so you know, this is almost a quote. I blocked this into my brain. She said, I've been to the most preeminent Lyme doctors in the world. I've been to Switzerland twice. And after four months of being treated with you, I feel better than I have in years. And her sister, who went with her for getting Lyme care, followed the same pattern as she did. And she wound up seeing Ben Erlandson, by the way, who's another only guy doing this in Wisconsin. And she got well, so he was closer to her. But when I hear stories like that, I go, I said, wow, can I get that writing? Yeah. No, it's because that's pretty cool.

So in those maybe 10% or so of people that don't seem to benefit from Limestop, have you been able to identify any patterns of the road or blocks that are preventing them from recovering that they need to address Is it environmental, is it mental, emotional? Any. Any patterns or observations?

I don't know if there's much emotional. Of course there's a lot of emotional emotion involved with lying. But I think the SIRS thing, you know, people don't respond. It's almost, it's almost like a given. If they come back and they say, I'm feeling worse or no better at all, they either have SIRS or they've been reinfected.

How old was the youngest person that you've ever done Lyme Stop with eight months.

Wow. Yeah. And keep in mind the cool thing with Lyme stop. Is we can test somebody, see if they have Lyme and test all the infection points. Even though little guy is going to have all these points and treat them and a kid that age doesn't have to take anything. He doesn't have to take even any nutrition. He's going to heal up beautifully. It doesn't have to take anything to kill anything. Yeah, obviously you're not going to hook them up to an IV or. But so it makes, it's probably, it's the most kid friendly treatment out there. It's non invasive. The kids love it. It's all natural. Parents love it. It's a wonderful technique for kids.

No blood, no needles.

And a lot of times parents will bring their kids in and we'll just line them up and it's funny though, you can just look at the kids and tell which ones have Lyme. They'll be kind of a beige complexion. They won't have rosy cheeks, kind of a weird beige complexion, tired eyes, dark circles under the eyes, while the other ones have these little rosy cheeks and bright eyes. But I test them all and that's again how we got our stats of maybe 70% of kids get this in utero, which is very sad.

It is sad. So for those people that are interested in pursuing limestop, approximately, I know it's going to change probably at some point after we have this recording out there for a while, but what's the approximate kind of cost to do the program? And then what does the program consist of or the supplements part of that overall program? How does that work?

Yeah, the total, it's a package cost of anywhere from 2,500 to $3,300. Like obviously an eight month old is going to be more like 2500, maybe 2000 range.

And then that includes the supplements as well.

Yeah, if they don't need supplements, it's going to be less, of course. But the 3300 includes all their supplements for four months, includes their follow up visit, of course. All their initial four visits. Yeah.

Now, if only I had met you 20 years ago, I could have saved a tremendous amount of money.

How much, how much did you spend on over the years, Scott?

In 20 years? Over half a million dollars.

How many doctors?

Doctors and healthcare practitioners? Well over 200. Yeah, yeah, lots of them. So.

Yeah, well, you know, that's an uncommon story.

Yeah, sadly it's not. It's a far too common story.

Well, the favorite patient I like to see is one who has tried everything, like Hannah. And as maybe a lot of these people are in dire financial straits too, you know, they're just about giving up. And I can say with, I mean, I can confidently look most of these people in the eye and say, there's a good chance we can get you a lot better or maybe, well, let's just identify what infections are there. Most of them have all of them. And let's get your immune system to lock onto them. Let's get you on some decent nutrition. The key is identifying these infections and making sure you get rid of them. With Lyme, we're not getting rid of these infections. And I think when that doesn't happen, the patient's lack of improvement is blamed on something else. Well, let's look in the metals, let's look into EMFs or, you know, first you have to identify and confidently get rid of these infections. Get them out of the body. If the patient's still not doing better. Yeah, then look into all this stuff. But don't send them over there not knowing, you know, say, don't let your pride get in the way and say, well, you didn't respond to my treatment, so it can't be Lyme. I'm going to send you over and, you know, we're going to look at this and that and that and that now. So anyway, I'm sorry, I kind of got on a roll there.

But so I know you, you had some challenges a few years ago with the chiropractic state board kind of coming after you and looking at the work that you're doing. So tell us a little bit about that.

Well, the board basically alleged that diagnosing Lyme and infections constitute, without using lab tests, constituted an exploitation of patients. And they also alleged that using magnets and my other therapies constituted using ineffective and inappropriate treatment. So they came after me with that for the first time in 36 years. You know, squeaky clean.

Right.

Anyway, so. But however, they didn't have any evidence to substantiate their allegations. So they hired an investigator to interview 20 of my patients, personally interviewed 20 of my patients in their homes from the surrounding area. Patients who had been treated by us and completed their care. And when his report came back, all 20 of them were pleased with their care and they had no complaints. And one guy said he thought the treatment was weird. That was the only negative comment.

Well, it is a little weird, but it works.

Yeah, it works. It's something we're not used to. So also we pointed out to the board, we said, hey, the Chiropractic Practices act doesn't prohibit chiropractors from using magnets or diagnosing without lab test, as long as you have the patient sign and informed consent, which we have all our patients do. And it was written by an attorney. So the board recognized the fact that basically at that point that I hadn't done anything wrong. And they realized that they couldn't take any formal disciplinary action against me, like saying, hey, we want you to pay a fine, we're going to suspend you or we're going to put you on probation. So even that, even though they couldn't find any evidence of wrongdoing, the board said that they would still take this to a hearing, still take it to a hearing if I didn't settle with them. If I that didn't sign off on this deal and if I went to a hearing, I'd have to pay a whole lot more in court costs, or not court costs, but attorney's fees. This had been dragging on for two years and has created a tremendous amount of stress and attorneys bills. So they said, if you will just pay for our cost of the investigation and add three statements, three additional statements to your informed consent, we will drop the entire matter.

Nice.

So I said, after everything I've been through, I go, got it. I'll sign off on that. So the bottom line was that the board found no evidence of any wrongdoing. They didn't find that I was exploiting patients or rendering ineffective treatment. Our patients were happy with the care we had. Patients signed informed consents. So they allowed us to continue practicing exactly the same way we were before the investigation began. So, yeah, so here we are back to back, right where we were diagnosing and treating with our methods. But I tell you, it was really painful having my integrity questioned for the first time in 36 years of practice. I never even had so much as a malpractice claim filed against me over that period of time. I value my integrity.

Yeah, absolutely.

But I'm just very happy that we can continue practicing our techniques without restrictions and that we continue. Can continue to help very sick people from all over the world.

Yeah, I'm happy about that as well, personally. And for those people that will follow and come see you and benefit from.

It, and, you know, that which doesn't kill you only makes you stronger, you know? But I came out of it stronger. I'm. My faith is stronger. I'm just very thankful. I love what I do. But, you know, I tell you what, I have no hard feelings towards any of the board members. They were just simply doing their job, which is to make sure the public isn't being harmed by any unscrupulous doctors. And as the board found out, I just definitely wasn't one of those kind of guys.

Good for us.

So it's good to be through it, and we're moving forward. I'm just a happy guy.

So for people that want to learn a little more about this, I know there is a Facebook group about Limestop. Tell us a little about that.

How did that get started?

And can they go there and just join and learn about the techniques?

Yeah, this line stop group is a really interesting thing. Probably about five years ago, one of my patients from San Diego, Judy, she was on our last day of treatment, and she said, Dr. Smith, I'd like to start a Facebook group. And I'm totally computer. I'm not on Facebook. I'm on there, but I don't do anything on it, just so I can monitor other people stuff. But she said, I'd like to start a Facebook group, a Limestop Facebook group, so people can chime in, tell about their experiences, how they're doing, the positives and negatives, all that. But I just ask that you or your staff cannot contribute to this. You can't be a part of it. So people can speak freely. So I'm going. So I think the reason she wanted to start this was she was skeptical about the treatment, and she wanted to hear from other people how they were doing. So. But as time went on, she started getting all this positive feedback, and she eventually brought a couple of her family members in later. But this support group is. It's called Mindstop Support and Information, and it's a good place for people to go to just hear success stories or bounce ideas off each other. It's been really helpful at first. A couple times I thought about shutting it down. I go, no, I think this is. This is good. And the feedback, as you may have noticed, has Been overwhelmingly positive. And because the technique itself has really gotten so simplistic. I don't want to say simplistic. So simple. It's elegant. It's beautifully, simply elegant, powerful, that a lot of people just don't have a hard time believing that it works, especially when they've spent tens of thousands, gone everywhere and all that. But it's just been a good site for people, and I think it's been a blessing to our practice.

Yeah, I've spent some time there as well prior to coming out and seeing you, and I think that, you know, hearing people's stories and surprisingly lots of very, very positive stories, which is not usually what you see when you go into a Facebook group about Lyme disease. And so that was also one of the reasons that I was drawn to the work that you're doing, because real people telling real stories and having real positive benefits in many, many cases.

Yeah, yeah.

It's a good thing if people are interested in pursuing Limestop for their own medical care. Are you taking new patients? Do you have a waiting list? What's that looking like?

Oh, I think our waiting list is just about four months out now. Four or five. And the thing to remember, once you've waited, once you get in, your treatment's over in three days. It's not going to be going on. So that's not a long period of time. It's anywhere from four to six months, I think, for four right now.

And are you moving forward with plans to train other Lyme Stop. Certified practitioners? How's that coming along?

Yeah, we're going to be doing that. But right now we've decided, Ben and I, Ben is again, Ben Erlin select in Wisconsin, have decided that practitioners need to learn CBT first, which is the foundation for livestock. And we have now have a CBT conference or a seminar every October, about middle October up here in Coeur d'. Alene.

Okay, beautiful.

And so last one we had, we had medical doctors, nature pass chiropractors, family practitioners, acupuncturists. There's a great group of people. And CBT itself is an amazing technique. Again, it's the one type, the one treatment, infection and allergy elimination technique.

So tell us a little bit about your complementary Lyme evaluations.

Yeah, that's something we offer to the public since there's a real need out there for people to know whether they're not. Whether or not they have lime without spending five or six hundred bucks on a very possibly inaccurate test. And we're confident enough in our Testing that. And the word gets out that from other people we've treated, they have these little missionaries out there, you know, telling people about, hey, get checked for a line. This guy will do it for free. And we usually have at least one person at the end of the day every day that comes in to get checked. They may be bringing their kids along and we can accurately tell them whether or not they got Lyme. And what I check for when I check them out, I'll check Borrelia. Borrelia shows up. I know they're going to have Babesia and Bartonella, but I'll check those two and I'll also check to see if they have neurological line. So I'll hold a bottle of cemento up there or Rifampin up the brain point. Cemento shows up, they've got Borrelia of rifampin shows up, they've got Bartonella. And again, 80% of the time it'll be Bartonella, 20% Borrelia. So if they have neurological Lyme, I'll look at them and I'll say, I'll bet your brain just isn't as calm, focused and relaxed as it should be. And they're going, yeah. And so that's what we check for. And we love doing it. Doesn't take long. So we just.

So if people are interested in that, do they.

Do you schedule that?

Is there like a certain day where you just announce you're doing that and people come to your office? How do they kind of get hooked up with.

Oh, all they do is just call our office and say, I'd like a complimentary line screen. And they get it lined up. It's typically at the end of the day, either Monday, Tuesday or Thursday. Okay. And I got to thinking about this after you asked me that question on the sheet. It almost makes sense for somebody to fly out here to get tested rather than spend the money on very possible inaccurate test, blood test and their whole family. The whole family can get, you know, fly the family anyway. But I was just thinking about that again. The testing is very accurate.

So I think we've covered a lot of great information in this conversation. Is there anything about Limestop that you feel like we didn't cover? Anything that you want to add?

Well, based on the. The thousands of Lyme stop. The great results we've gotten from thousands of Lyme stop. Patients that we've seen from thousands of limestone patients, I really feel that utilizing our own God given immune system. Is the most safe, effective and natural method of Eliminating Lyme disease. I really firmly believe that it's the best way to go by far. And the immune system can do it. Even when somebody comes in with a compromised immune system, it's unusual when we can't get their immune system to do its thing to eliminate the individual infections.

I always wrap things up with one final question, which is what are some of the key, key things that you do on a daily basis in support of your own health?

Absolutely nothing. No, you know, I'm an old guy, so I'm just kind of sedentary. I watch tv. No, I'm kidding. What I will, what I will do, I take just about every morning. I do a half hour sauna, about 150 degrees infrared sauna, do a half hour on the treadmill. I do bodyweight exercises on a vibration plate. That's great. And stretches on the vibration plate. I do some TRX type exercise, strap exercises, take some good nutrition, try to get outside to go for a walk when I can too. That's the ideal way to do that. But yeah, that's pretty much it. I've gotten hooked on that infrared sauna. I think since I bought it, I've had about a thousand of those now.

Wow, that's amazing. Well, this has been super, super fun. I appreciate your time. I appreciated the opportunity to come out and work with you. I know we got to spend some time together when I was there. And I do feel that you are a person of high integrity and high intention. And I could just tell from talking to you and seeing you work with other patients that that you're really personally invested in the outcomes and doing everything you can to help your patients reach new levels of health. And so I thank you for that and honor you for that and just thank you for sharing with us today, Scott.

I appreciate that very much. It's been a pleasure.

Thanks so much, Dr. Smith. Talk to you soon.

All right. Hope so.

To learn more about Today's guest, visit limestop.com that's limestop.com thanks for your interest in today's show. If you'd like to follow me on Facebook or Twitter, you can find me there as Better HealthGuy to support the show, please visit betterhealthguy.com donate if you'd like to be added to my newsletter, visit betterhealthguy.com newsletters and this and other shows can be found on YouTube, iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher and Spotify.

Thanks for listening to this Better Health Guy blogcast with Scott, your Better Health guy, to check out additional shows and learn more about Scott's personal journey to better health, please visit betterhealthguy.com.