Mold and Military Housing

State by state, environmental laws are very different. But if you standardize at least a bare minimum of what that is going to look like for every state and every housing company that's going to give military families a big leg to stand on that they don't have right now.

Hi, all. We're so pleased to welcome you to Change the Air Foundation Summit. I am Justin Nahama. I'm an advisor for the foundation and spend a lot of my time these days in the well being arena. I was a Marine and so what Kate's going to share with us today is very, very near and dear to my heart. To that end, we are very lucky to be joined by Kate Needham. Among other impressive accomplishments, she's a Navy veteran, military spouse, mom and founder of the nonprofit the Armed Forces Housing Advocates. Welcome, Kate.

Thank you.

If you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit more about your background and connections to the military. And I know you don't love talking about yourself, but a birdie told me that you received a pretty cool award recently, so I'd love to hear a little bit about that too.

Yeah. Thank you. So again, my name is Kate and I was just awarded with the Armed Forces Insurance Military Spouse of the year for 2023 at Naval Base Point Loma. So quite a huge honor to have. And essentially it just recognizes the work that I've done with my nonprofit as well, because I wouldn't be here without all of the hard work my teammates have done to help military families with their housing issues while they're living in privatized military housing.

That's amazing. And if we could back up for a little too, tell us about your journey into the military and what you're doing today.

Yeah, sure. So initially I worked in the advocacy sector prior to joining the military as a domestic violence and sexual assault advocate and educator. And I actually didn't join the Navy until I was 26 years old. It was a really great choice. I'm really glad that I did it. I'll never regret it. And then I did a quick short four years and I met my husband. We were both sonar technicians. My husband is one year away from retirement, as a matter of fact. And so I've always been really connected to the military community, either through my own service or through my husband's service. And I also come from a very large military family as well.

So you're, you're a little bit of a unicorn in the sense that you've been in the military, you've worked with the military, and you have a Spouse who's approaching retirement. For those watching who haven't directly been in the military, can you share a little bit more? Two pronged question for you? One is a little bit more on your four years. Let's start with that.

So a little bit about my time in the military. Again, I served a short four years while I was in the Navy. Besides being a sonar technician, one of my biggest focuses was advocacy work. I volunteered as a sexual assault prevention advocate. And that really just kept the spark going for me to know how important helping military members was. I never lost that passion for ensuring the safety of people who are serving our country. And I think that's why my journey in the Navy led me to where I am today, aside from the personal tragedy I experienced in military housing myself.

And you're alluding to something really important that we'll get to in a moment. But before we do, can you speak a little bit to your almost 20 year journey as a military spouse? Those of us who have served realize the joys that go with moving every few years. But can you share a little bit from the 10,000 foot view of what it's like to be a military family with receiving orders and bouncing around and how military housing folds into the mix?

Sure. So being a military family in general is pretty stressful. It's very rewarding. You have a sense of purpose. You are supporting your spouse who is serving our country, which is probably one of the greatest honors anybody can have. However, there are a lot of caveats that come with that. So you're moving every one to three years, you don't know where your duty station is going to be. You never have your family with you, and sometimes you even have to separate from your spouse and children, which is really, really difficult to do. So being a military family is both rewarding and very difficult. And so in that sense of moving every one to three years, especially today with the inflation rates of housing prices, it is basically required that you're going to end up in privatized military housing because it's what we can afford, especially for our lower enlisted folks. I was enlisted, my husband is an enlisted service member. We're not making a ton of cash. And so the housing you have as an option is managed by private companies that have 50 year contracts with the Department of Defense. So you are basically at their mercy.

And I want to, I want to double click on that for a second because it's really important, especially when you fold in having a family to the mix and having kids. Being a parent's hard Enough. I missed the memo. If there is a parent school, I didn't get to go to it. And so it's difficult enough to raise kid, but I don't want to understate how difficult it is to bounce around every two to three years. And you mentioned something that's really important and that's really the limited notice and not knowing. Can you share a little bit more about the timeline of how orders work, just generally speaking, and really what that window looks like to uproot your whole life, not just housing, but with schools and all of the moving pieces? Because I think it's important for our audience to hear that with those who haven't served directly.

Yeah, so it's definitely a multifaceted answer. But the easiest way I can explain it is some service members will get short fuse orders, which means they have to leave within two to four weeks. So you're settled in a school with your children. As a military spouse, you might have a job and your spouse who's a service member is saying in two to four weeks you've got to move across the country or to another country outside of the United States. And that can go all the way up to about three to four months. In general, there are always outliers, of course, so you are going to have to arrange what school your children are going to go to. If you do not have permanent housing, you cannot enroll your child into a military school, which is also called dodea, so a Department of Defense educational school. So when you are on a wait list for housing that's 30, 60, 90 days long, and you're living in a hotel, in a tent, in an rv, which happens to a lot of our families. You also don't have a place to put your kids in school, which means they might be potentially missing breakfast and lunch meals if that's your main source of food for your children. Because the food insecurity is really tough right now for military families as well. If you're a military spouse, you're likely to lose your job if you're already employed.

So.

So it is chaotic. It is very, very mentally taxing. I cannot understate the level of mental health crisis that children and adults are going through during these moves. So it is not easy and you've got to do it quickly. There is no time to breathe.

And I think that's the perfect segue about how you said that with there not being time to breathe, you know, it seems like there's a lot of psychological stressors that happen with this type of move and Upgrading and uprooting your life. But I want to focus a little bit more on the environmental stressors and why we're here today and really why change. The Air foundation exists. Can you share a little bit more about the Armed Forces housing advocates and what it is? You've mentioned the word advocate several times and it has, as a recovering lawyer, it has different meanings. Can you please just share a little bit more about about the AFHA and then the context, how advocate is used and why it's so important?

Sure. So AFA is a 501C3, which means it's a non profit in the United States. And basically what we do is, like you said, advocacy work. So what does that mean? That means we have an entire team of volunteers that sits down with individual families that come to us for help. I have mold in my home and they won't remediate it. My child has fallen out of a window because we don't have window guards. I've had a huge flood and I'm displaced from my home. They come to us to find out what are my rights, how do I get this fixed and how do I get it done quickly so that I'm not displaced from my home for a long time and continuing that cycle of uprooting and emotional stress. So our advocates will teach them, they will empower them. And that's the crux of our organization. Empowerment advocacy. These are the rights that you have per the Department of Defense and the National Defense Authorization Act. These are the rights that you have per federal, state and local law. And this is the process that you take to get your situation remediated, keeping it at the lowest level possible and then escalating step by step when needed. So that's the first part of our advocacy. The second part of our advocacy is research and data collection and reporting. So some people get this part confused with lobbying. We are not a lobbying firm. What we are is an advocacy organization. So the data that we receive from our families and that we keep track of, we also do surveys and research about effects of mold, for example, medically on military families long term. And we turn that data into congressional members that come to us and ask for it so that they can shape legislation that will further protect military families within the ndaa, for example.

So there's a lot to unpack there. And if there's one thing that folks listening take away from this and we'll get into a little bit more, but it's really about understanding their rights. And one of the things that I think is Most important is that families learn how to be proactive rather than reactive about this because the traditional cycle is. And please correct me if I'm wrong, but you know, families will start seeing behavioral and health impacts on their children and then start exploring and then identify problems. What A is doing is trying to turn that model on its head so they can proactively start identifying some of these issues. Oh my gosh, there's so much there to unpack. Let's start with zoom out for just one second because I think a lot of people through the movies, which dictates a lot of the assumptions I think in our culture that people make with environmental issues. You've seen some of the movies where there's a community that gets cancer or the water is polluted and those types of things. I don't think people understand that forms of those issues are so prevalent in the military today. Can you speak a little bit about how many families reside in military housing, private military housing today?

Sure. So about one third of our forces, or 700,000 military families, and of those 700,000, about 35 to 45% of them all have children as well. So it's a pretty substantial amount of people.

And one of the things you and I have talked about offline that I'm eager to learn more on is the Military Housing Privatization Initiative. Can you speak a little bit about what that is?

Sure. So MHPI is an acronym for it. And very Simply put, in 1996, the administration at the time decided that it would be better if the Department of Defense handed over control and management of military housing to private companies that entered into 50 year contracts with the DOD. The reasoning behind this was to actually improve the standards and the conditions of the housing because as it had stood then, things were not going really well. You know, you hear stories from people in the 70s and 80s of really dilapidated homes that they were living in. So the best intentions were made with this contract. And so we're about 26 years into it now. And sadly, though some of the issues had been resolved with crumbling buildings, for example, we still have an extreme prevalence of issues with access to rights, access to proper maintenance. And most importantly, and what we're here to talk about is mold.

And so it sounds like we're about halfway through that contractual obligation. And I also want to underscore one thing you said is it doesn't seem like anyone set out with, with intentions to create problems with molded and military housing. Because as you know, one of the initiatives that I support that I'm very Proud of is the nonprofit the Honor Foundation. And we are the largest transition institute in the country for Navy SEALs, Green Berets and special operators. And their operational tempo is extreme because they're deploying on shorter notice, you know, and they deal with a lot of the same things that the traditional military families do. I think it's really important to note and understand the current state of military housing. I remember personally they did a whole remodel of one of the bases that I was on that shall remain nameless. And we were kicked out of the building for a little bit, and we came back in. I mean, it was kind of mind blowing where things were just like nails were painted over, and it really just looked like a superficial, you know, remodel to make it look more modern, but there really wasn't anything substantive done. So let's start with mold. You've mentioned that a few times. And when most people think of mold, obviously, like, I'll speak for myself. I'm like, all right, well, that's gross. I know it's bad, and I hope it's not in my house, but can you speak in a little bit more detail, please, about how mold can impact families day to day?

Yeah, definitely. And also piggybacking off of what you just said, I really want to highlight single service members that live in the barracks because they are also experiencing the same problem with mold, and I don't want them to get forgotten. And it happens often. So when a single service member is on deployment and comes home to their barracks room and their gear is covered in mold, their bed is covered in mold, or a family lives in a privatized military house and they've got mold growing inside their walls and they don't know it. These people are not only experiencing loss of items, right? So your furniture is destroyed, your clothing, etc. Etc. They're also experiencing medical effects. And this isn't, you know, histrionics. This is real. And it is documented through MDS Functional Medicine all across the board. You're going to have some people with neurological symptoms. You're going to have people with respiratory issues. You're going to have people that have lost their hair. It just depends on the individual, what type of mold they're exposed to and their, you know, allergy to the mold. But at the end of the day, it's not only destroying you physically. It's not only destroying your, you know, items. It's also affecting your mental health. It can affect you financially if you're unable to work. And personally, as a former service member. It affects your readiness, operational readiness. And you know, this is number one for a service member. And if you are concerned about your sick child or you yourself are ill or you don't have access to the proper gear, you're supposed to have to go into the field or on a deployment, you are not operationally ready. And that is a national security problem.

So you took the words out of my mouth. I was just about to ask you some questions about what mission and operational readiness is. And for the audience, this is where I'll respectfully disagree with you. And we can say the actually, I can say these things now because I'm not as directly tied to the military, so I won't put you in that position. But if our service members can't do their jobs because they're either unhealthy or stressed out about their families, they can't protect our country. And that's a problem. And unfortunately, that's usually what gets the Department of Defense's attention, which is mission readiness, because the officers and senior enlisted are responsible for accomplishing the mission. So I could not agree with you more, but this is where I will gently push back as the most important thing. It's really the human beings behind the service member. And there's always a what's next when someone's done with their service, whether it's four years or 40 years. And so if the human being and their families aren't attended to, you know, that has a domino effect on mission readiness. And so two part question for you. The first one is let's start with what you believe the most pressing problems in military housing are today. And then you also mentioned a very personal experience that if you're comfortable sharing, I think would be helpful for the audience to hear. So let's start a little broader with kind of what you view as the most pressing problems. Then would be very grateful if you're willing to share your personal experience.

Sure. And also thank you for mentioning the humanization of the entire situation. I actually do agree with you on that. I think sometimes I get so into the cycle of explaining it to DOD in Congress that even I forget at the end of the day it is a humanistic problem and we do need to stop dehumanizing the people that are involved with this.

Can I. And can I add one thing there? Can I add one thing there before you jump to your answer, as far as any type of advocacy goes, whether it's advocating for our children, for education issues, for ourself, with our doctors navigating Health care, any of this. To me, the starting point is learning how to speak the language so your audience pays attention. And a lot of that, any type of advocacy, it's counterintuitive because I think we tend to start from the human being perspective. But that doesn't necessarily move the needle. It's not like people don't care, but that's not what necessarily facilitates action. So part of what we're going to get in today and part of why change the Air foundation exists is to arm people with the resources on how to speak the language appropriately to help improve outcomes. And you've had experience in different forms of advocacy as well. And so I just want to plant that seed and we'll loop back to it because as you noted, just to kind of double click on that for a moment, you know, if you're in front of Congress or military leaders and you talk about the human piece, they will listen. But it's going to move the needle as much, in my opinion, as sharing that it's impacting mission readiness. Readiness, because then there's more accountability. Right. The, the gen, the generals and the colonels and the senior enlisted all have to explain to someone, and it goes up the broader civilian and Department of Defense chain of command, why you can't meet mission. So we'll loop back to that. And I'm sorry for interrupting. So just to get us back on track, can you please share your thoughts on some of the most pressing problems in military housing today?

Yes. So I think the problem we have is an oversight issue and a standardization of rights issue, which are also both the solutions. We need broad third party oversight of the function of military housing so that there is someone who is invested solely in protecting the military families to report back to the housing companies and the DoD, here's what the problem really is and here are the professionals that can help you fix it. And then there's standardization of rights. So military housing members have something called the tenant bill of rights and they also have access to something I mentioned earlier, which was the ndaa. Now, the NDAA is its own standalone. The NDAA is its own standalone item which is going to dictate money that is spent. However, the tenant bill of rights is so. However, the tenant bill of rights is solely for military families to access rights within the communities that they live in. So these rights are access to a dispute resolution. If you're unsatisfied with the maintenance done on your home, access to a 7 year maintenance history of what's been done on your home prior to moving into it and a whole bunch of other information like that. The problem with the tenant bill of rights is that it is not equally enforced across all 14 privatized housing companies. So that's going to really mess a family up when they live in one housing community that enforces the full bill of rights and then they move to another community that isn't fully participating in it. The other problem is when they say families have the right to access environmental remediation that meets applicable standards. Well, what's the standard? Because state by state environmental laws are very different. But if you standardize at least a bare minimum of what that is going to look like for every state and every housing company that's going to give military families a big leg to stand on, that they don't have right now.

What do the problems look like for the families? Like what types of things should families be looking out for so they know that this is even an issue they should pay attention to in addition to them living in military housing?

Sure. So we always tell families, before you ever even accept a house, you need to do a thorough walkthrough with the management company and you need to note every single thing you see wrong with that house in your opinion. So if you see one tiny spot of mold or you see a paint piece missing on the wall, anything that you see so you can protect yourself, the next thing that we say is get everything in writing, black and white emails, copies of forms that you have signed, that's the only thing that can protect you legally. But most importantly, get the seven year maintenance history. That's the best thing you can do for yourself. There you can see, was there a leak, Was there mold remediation, Was there a fire, Was there a gas leak? Have I moved to Hawaii? And was this home part of the jet fuel spill that contaminated the water the families were drinking? When you know the background of the home you're going into, that helps you probe for more answers. If you see something alarming or reach out to an organization like ours that can help explain it to you.

And that's super helpful. And we'll end with kind of a summary of the playbook on how to empower families to navigate the process. You mentioned seven years. That seems like, like a random number. Can you, can we double click on that for a second? Why? Why seven years and how do families ask for it?

Seven years was the determination made when making the tenant bill of rights? I actually don't really have insight into why specifically 10 years, seven years. But the way you ask for it is very simple. Send an email to your management company. I am formally requesting my house's seven year maintenance history and that's it. And they should be sending it to you right away. And in fact some companies have been proactive and have been sending it along with the lease.

So it's 2023. It's been over a decade since I think you and I have both served and you'd think that with technology and social media sharing issues that things would be different than they were 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago. Why do you think these problems still exist?

I think they still exist because there is still an issue with profits over people. And I think that happens with any huge corporation that is a for profit company. One of the issues in privatized military housing is that they are incentivized by closing work orders quickly. So if you're sending in a work order for mold and they can get it closed in three days, vice two weeks, they're going to do it that way because they're going to earn more money. And that's how we get into this vicious cycle of families not accessing proper remediation. The housing company, in order to generate revenue and save money is going to go with the lowest bidder on who's going to fix the house and they're also going to close it as fast as they can. And, and I think that's why you still see on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok these, you know, they're funny for a minute meme pages that you know, make jokes out of crummy landlords and make jokes out of people's gear being covered in mold like I mentioned before. But it's not funny, but it's the only outlet they have to express themselves and then it kind of just turns into a really sad joke.

I think it's important to understand you've alluded to it a few times. The the intersection between military responsibility and then the private contracts that you've mentioned just generally spe who at a base is responsible for military housing? Like where is the intersection between traditional chain of command versus the private folks that you've mentioned? And I'll share, when I was on active duty as a marine, I didn't even think about that stuff, right? It was kind of just like you're kind of like taught not to complain. And you know, military housing isn't going to have a yacht waiting for you out back on the lake. So you know, you just kind of navigate it. So can you share a little bit more about the distinctions between the traditional chain of command and then the private PC pension, please.

Yeah, absolutely. So, and this is the part where I start to ruffle people's feathers and I like doing that, actually, because it kind of makes people more aware. So first and foremost, the DOD and the privatized companies have a contract. The bottom line is DoD cannot, and frankly, based on history, will not instruct the housing company to change their behavior because that requires a complete renegotiation of the contract. The housing company has to agree to renegotiate those contracts, and they're not going to if it's not to their advantage. So that's part one. Part two. Where does your chain of command as a service member come in? Well, they can be helpful if they're able to and willing to. So if you're having a problem in your housing and you're unable to resolve it yourself directly with the housing company, because that's who you're supposed to go to, you can certainly always alert your chain of command. So for me, as a sailor, I would have been telling my lead petty officer, my lead chief, I would have maybe even escalated it to my triad commandmaster chief Xoco. That would be worst case scenario, right, if things have really gone left. But unless you're entered into something called the dispute resolution, your chain of command really isn't going to have much of an effect on the situation. And you really are at the mercy of working this out with the privatized housing company. Now let me give you an example of why this is a huge problem and why DoD I wish would step in more. A company called Belfor Beatty was charged by the Department of Justice and required to pay $65 million back for defrauding the government. They were turning over work orders quickly, not actually completing them. And there were some bad actors that were stealing money on that account. The Department of Defense did not punish Balfour Beatty and end their contract as a housing company. In fact, they've been awarded other contracts to do other projects for the DoD. So if that can indicate to our audience the level of confusion families have and the level of problems that are in this program, I don't know any company in the civilian world that would allow a partner company to defraud them to the tune of $65 million and then not end that contract. So that's a really messy problem that is very difficult to untangle.

One of the things that you mentioned is, you know, is the military leadership's role. Senior enlisted and officers, and I never commanded at a very high level. But I've worked very closely with a lot of people who have all the way up to the general admiral level. And those folks and senior enlisted have a lot on their plate. Mission readiness, as you mentioned, to get folks ready for deployments the way the world is today is a endless and often thankless responsibility. So I can imagine in some context environmental issues are not something that the command probably prioritizes. Let's loop to your personal connection for a second and then we'll circle back to that. Can you share more? You, you mentioned it when we first started today about your personal experience. If you wouldn't mind just sharing wave tops on that. So those joining us know that you have a very personal connection to this as well.

Sure. So my son, who was 14 months old at the time, tragically fell 15ft out of our military house window. Thank God he survived. He does have a traumatic brain injury, but we will take that over the alternative. It was really traumatizing. My daughter witnessed it, my husband and I were in the room. And it was simply because the window sills in these homes are constructed very low. Our windowsill is 24 inches from our floor. They only have insect screens. And the housing company never alerted us that we had the option to install window safety and that they should have been installing window safety based on something called Evans Law, which was created after a beautiful baby boy passed away from a window fall in Hawaii. A month and a half later. My neighbor son had the same fall and he did not fare well because he landed on concrete. Unlike my son who landed on hard packed dirt. He also survived, but his injuries were much more substantial. And I got mad, really mad. But because of my personality, rather than screaming about it or crying and feeling bad for myself, I got together with like minded women who are also military spouses and found like minded veterans as well and founded AFA because I decided we're going to change this. No matter how long it takes, come hell or high water, we're fixing this problem because this can't keep happening. And it's not just the window falls, it's the mold, it's the lead, it's the asbestos, it's the poisoned water, it's everything it needs to stop. So that's kind of where I came in. And then going back to chain of command and senior leaders, the base CO was gobsmacked. He had no idea that there's supposed to be window safety. He had no idea that there's all these other issues. Because like you said earlier, you're taught to Keep your mouth shut and your head down. And they support the best they can when you bring it to them. But frankly, they do have other things they're focusing on. And they are not environmentally trained experts. They are not construction experts. They are experts at their job. So you can't put too much of the blame on those senior enlisted officials. They're doing the best they can with what they have, especially with all their other responsibilities. And I think that's the other reason I wanted to start our nonprofit, was because they need support too.

I mean, I'm so sorry that your family has had to navigate that and greatly appreciate your vulnerability in sharing. So let's focus with our remaining time on really the playbook on how to empower families for what to do right when they get somewhere new orders without rocking the boat in their chain of command just to make sure they're safe or getting the attention of their leadership. One of the dirty secrets of being a former litigator is that I think a lot of folks have the misplaced assumption that even if you have legal rights, that that's going to lead to the result you want. And it's really attrition warfare. The legal process, it is counterintuitive, it is exhausting, it is expensive. A lot of people just tap out or don't want to deal with it, which is one of the most heartbreaking parts of the legal process. I do believe our country has it better than anywhere else as far as like, comparatively speaking. But that also doesn't mean that it's anywhere near easy. So if you could go back in time when you had a family and could talk to yourself about what to do, knowing everything you know now, not just with the prestigious award you just received, but what you've built and learned serving so many families over the last last several years. What are the top three things that you wish you would have known and and done differently?

Sure. So number one, first and foremost, and I am currently in a military house right now, I would have gone through this house with a fine tooth comb. So here's the bottom line. Get yourself a manual, whether it be the one on our resource page or any landlord tenant you're moving into a new house, here's how to deal with it. Manual. And go through your home with a fine tooth comb. Be aware of what your rights are in your state so that you know if something needs to be fixed, what the law is. Number two, open communication. Always make sure you are communicating openly with the housing company in writing only. And if a housing company is refusing to do that and will only call you. I want you to send an email immediately after that phone call summarizing everything that was discussed, what time, what day and who was involved. That is huge protection. Everything should always be in writing. Take screenshots of everything, especially if you're putting in a work order. You must protect yourself. And number three, do not be afraid to stand up for yourself. We've said it a few times now. It is uncomfortable, especially for an E1 or an E2 who's probably 19 or 20 years old, to go to his senior and, you know, enlisted or senior officer and tell them, this is something going on in my house and this is not satisfactory. This is not appropriate. You have to do it because they want you to be successful, healthy, and safe, too. So you need to overcome some fear. Learn how to talk respectfully to people, of course, and getting your point across. But stand up for yourself because you have a right to be safe and healthy.

Those are amazing tips. I want to underscore the importance of the second one about open communication, because what happens is people get busy and they have phone calls. And one of my many mentors, Joel, always says, fantastic lawyer. I've learned a ton from him. He says, if it wasn't in writing, it didn't happen. And from the legal. From the legal perspective, that is exactly right. So if things are over email or text and people on the other side, when they know that there is an issue, most of the time they're not going to be foolish and be like, oh, yes, like there is mold, you know, and put it in an email. They'll be a little cagey or want to have phone calls. And so I think the most important scenario and action item there is, if there are phone calls, to always follow up and memorialize it in writing with an email. For example. Dear so and so, thank you so much for your time. Just to recap our conversation, bullet point one. I brought concerns to your attention about mold, missing paint, loose windows, whatever it is, bullet point two, and keep going. Because when things do get escalated, if it becomes kind of a he said, she said, based on phone conversations, that's going to be a lot more difficult. So I think it's great advice and cannot understate the importance of that issue. Let's just walk through this is a broad stroke, but what families can expect, you know, when they. When they raise these issues in the way that you did. So family moves in, they notice some things that are funky with the house. They document it. They request the seven year history pursuant to their rights that you mentioned. What kind of pushback can they expect to face?

So the answer to that varies. There are some housing companies that are really starting to finally do a good job and hard work and they're going to give it to you with the lease like I mentioned earlier, or they're just going to give it to you per your request. There are other housing companies, especially the ones that aren't really participating in that tenant bill of rights and statement that are going to tell you no or they're going to make you jump through who hoops to access it, which means they're probably going to make you jump through hoops to get things fixed, to access dispute resolution, so on and so forth. So what I would say to any family is hope for the best, expect the worst. And if the worst happens, there are organizations like ours and there are other non profits as well, including Change the Air foundation that can help educate you on your rights. They can help educate you on what to be wary of if you're experiencing mold like Change the Air foundation experts on that. Right. So I would hope for the best, expect the worst.

Super helpful. Well, I want to end with a little bit more about your programs, but before that you mentioned something and this isn't really the topic of our discussion, but it's something that's very important to Change the Air foundation. And that's the legislative component of this. Right. Creating more accountability and oversight. Just for a few moments, can you share a little bit more about the legislation that's happening? I know you've been a part of past legislation and kind of the current state of affairs today in terms of how it can move the needle for our military families.

Sure. So there's one that I would really like to focus on. It came up last year. It's called the Military Housing Readiness Council Act Act. And we gave all the data in the world to Congress members. It was widely supported by Congress members that said this would be great oversight feature. It includes experts like the iicrc, the icc, which is a bunch of fancy acronyms for people who are experts in code building code and mold remediation and things of that nature. And it didn't go through. So we're hoping that this year that it can be represented and that we're going to give that data to those offices all over again about why it's so important. And that will really change the landscape. It will give that third party oversight feature like I mentioned earlier. And it also gives a place for experts like Change the Air foundation to weigh in on why things such as mold remediation, mold exposure, etc. Are really important to focus on and how to prevent the exposure. I think that's one of the most important solutions is prevention. And if we can't do prevention, immediate remediation to protect the houses and the families. So that's the biggest legislative feat we have right now that I'm hoping can get through this year.

Well, thank you for all the work that you're doing in the trenches. I think the lobbying and legislative side is often thankless and a lot of people don't see that other than the drama we see on the news about legislation. But it is a critical piece of effectuating change to bring us home here. Can you share a little bit more? Where can everyone who's tuning in find more information about your nonprofit? You mentioned some really powerful resources. Can you share a little bit about where they can find more?

Yes, I would love to share that. So again, our organization is Armed Forces Housing Advocates. If anything else, give it a Google will pop up. But you can go directly to our website@www.afhousingadvocates.org and if you have any form of social media, LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, it's all the same FHA org and we are an all volunteer force. We have tons of resources on our website. We have a full resource library and we're actually working on expanding that this year. That tells you about your disability rights, tells you about local and state law, gives you guides on moving into houses and what to look out for. Lots of great information on there.

And how many families just to orient the audience to the scope. How many families has your nonprofit helped to date?

Sure. So we have been open for just under two years and we have already serviced over 2,000 families. And that was as of yesterday.

That's amazing. So you talked about some of the direct services that your organization has, but can you speak to some of the other programs that folks can expect to find on your website when they're tinkering around?

Yeah, absolutely. So one of the features we will be adding, so please look out for this is a heat map. So what that's going to include is links to your local congressional offices so you can ask them to open casework if you're having a problem with your housing that you can't resolve. We also offer free mental health services. So if you are a family that's unable to access mental health because it's a long wait list for Tricare, we're Going to offer to that to you from our volunteers free of charge on a short term basis until we can help refer you to the Tricare website to look for a provider in your area that has an opening. So our advocates are going to sit down and do all that research, make those phone calls. How long is your waiting list? Can we get a family in with you? Additionally you can just ask for help. There's a little form on our site, it says what's your problem? Tell us your email and tell us what you've done and then we're going to email you back and probably have a couple of phone calls too to walk you through the steps of what you need to do to help fix your situation.

Amazing. And then is it pretty intuitive when folks are on your website how to reach out and contact the organization if they have follow up questions?

Yes. So it literally says get help. You click on it, you're good to go. And then also worst case scenario, if for some reason the website's down or you can't figure it out, please just comment on one of our social media posts or send an email, a query to our email. It's infofhousing advocates.org or if you're in a really bad shape, email me. My email address is linked right underneath the description of who I am as our executive director and I will be certain to get back to you.

Well, I cannot thank you enough for your time today. Not just your experience as a service member and military spouse and mom, but but the courage in taking something so dramatic that would probably push most families over the edge and that kind of lighting a fire and turning it into something beautiful to protect other families is nothing short of extraordinary. I also want to send a big thank you to Mike, Kendra and Brandon. What they've done at Change the Air foundation is so important to keep our country, our communities, the world. I think a lot of the beacons that I'm seeing for the work that I do in well being, things that have been around for a while like breathing and sleeping are a big part of the frontier of well being. So from the bottom of my heart thank you so much for all of the insights you shared today and I'm personally really excited to head to your website and dig in.

Yeah, thank you so much and also thank you for your service to our country. I'm so excited to talk to a fellow service member and I just really appreciate you taking the time.