Mold: The Straw that Broke the Camel’s Back with Dr. Jaban Moore

Hi, everyone, and welcome back to another Change the Year interview. My name is Kendra Seymour and I'm joined by a very special guest today who's going to talk to us about mold and your body. Welcome, Dr. Jabin Moore.

Well, thank you for having me. Mold is a topic to me that can't be talked about nearly enough. And this is coming from a guy who's a Lyme guy. So I wasn't originally on the mold train, but it's, it's extremely important.

Yeah, I think it's impacting way more people than, than is realized. And as a limey myself and somebody who's dealt with mold, you kind of can't talk about one without at least talking about the other. So. But for those, for those listening who don't know Dr. Jabin Moore just yet, a little bit about him. He is a D.C. located in Kansas City, Missouri, and he works virtually with clients all around the world. At age 25, he went from being an award winning top athlete in college to feeling like he couldn't get out of bed. And he went on a lot of appointments looking for answers. Spent what felt like endless amounts of money in tests and appointments, but doctors only wanted to give him band aids. He was later diagnosed with Lyme disease and dedicates his practice to helping clients get to the root cause of their chronic illness. Dr. Morse specializes in Lyme disease and co infections, pans and pandas, autism, heavy metals, parasites, gut health, mitochondrial support, and other viruses and pathogens. And I will say if you follow him on Facebook and Instagram, he does an incredible job of conveying all these complex things in an easy to understand way. So you'll want to check that out as well. But thank you again for being here.

Well, thanks for having me. It's like I said, you cannot say enough about these topics to try and just change the world. We want to educate people so that they can control their own existence and being and just so they can live well. I'm just, I feel for so many people because I've been there.

Yeah. And it doesn't have to be this way. And especially when part of the problem is what's in the air inside our homes. And very few practitioners are asking that question. It's just, it's overlooked. And so I love that you talk about that with your clients. I love that that it's a focus of what you do. So I, I will jump right in if you don't mind. Now, I've heard you say this, I've heard other practitioners say this before. That mold is like the straw that broke the camel's back. What do you mean by that?

So mold is an incredibly powerful organism, I guess the fungus, right. And it creates mycotoxins. And these. Mycotoxins are so powerful that they're used in medications to suppress the immune system. Mycoflinic acid. They're used for bioweapons. They're known to, for lack of better words, crush detoxification pathways, shut it down, overwhelm it, use up your bile, which is your body's natural binder, cause bowel issues, stress the nervous system so much that you feel like you have been at war for weeks, months, years. And now you're in a state of fight or flight. Your body's getting depleted. So mold is an absolute powerhouse at just wrecking your system. So for many, many people, they look at mold as well. It's everywhere. It's on your house, it's in your car, it's outside. So why are we worried about this thing? And that's honestly how I looked at it. I can remember saying to somebody years ago, they're like, well, what about mold? I'm like, I. You know, honestly, I don't know. I'm not seeing that. And at the time, I wasn't seeing. It wasn't something that was presenting in my office all the time. But now, as I'm talking about it more, researching it more, having more clients come in, as with it as an issue, I actually looked back into my own history, and I was like, I was a collegiate athlete. I was a shot putter. I lifted a ton of weights. I felt like I was invincible. Until I moved into a basement where there's literally mold growing up a wall because I wanted to be cheap and live in college, not have a huge debt. And then all of a sudden, food allergies started, and sore throat and joint pain and achiness and tiredness, and not necessarily the. The same vibrance that I had before this basement. And then my Lyme journey happened, and then in practice, and I'm just like, okay, I got all these things going on. I always thought it was Lyme. And I took it back to that same period of time. And then when mold became a conversation, I think I was on a call or a podcast with Brian Kerr, and I was like, wait a minute. These symptoms started in that basement. So Lyme weakened my system. It allowed for the opportunity for Lyme and parasites and stress to overwhelm me and all those things together finally, or too much for me to lift And I'm a weightlifter, guys, so just bear with me if you're not a weightlifter. But if you think about doing a maximal effort lift I can do, and I've done this, a 690 pound back squat, I would not be able to stand up with £700. Right? So it's just a tiny amount more. You can't stand up whether Your max is £100 or £700, right? It's that tiny amount. The £1 is too much. So the straw that broke the camel's back for each individual is a little different. But if it's just enough that it goes over your system's ability to adapt to that. Just a hair, just a straw, just one piece of straw, and then now the camel can't stand up. That's you with whatever it was that just put you over the edge, whether that was, you know, somebody yelling at you, going into a moldy building, get in that last cold. Yes, it could be Lyme disease or something a lot bigger and better, but oftentimes it's not something so big, something so small, or so we think is so small. And mold for so many people is that thing that they just didn't know about, they didn't pay any attention to. And if they could just figure that piece out, they probably can get well.

Yeah, and it's hard, too, because I think a lot of people in our own experience as well, you get a lot of other diagnoses and then you do whatever treatment and you're not getting better. And I think it's time, you know, we start asking questions like, well, if it's not working, why? Like, is there. Is there a root cause that we're missing? Is there something that we're not seeing? Because, you know, mold is hard. It's this stealth thing. And in your case, you could see it, and in a lot of cases, you can't. And so it's not something that's top of mind for a lot of practitioners or for a lot of individuals. And I think that's why it gets missed, too. And how do you recover from EBV or whatever else you have going on, or Lyme if you're constantly exposed to this toxin that nobody's telling you to look for.

Exactly. And in my clinic, I've developed a roadmap to success or a path that we have to at least pay attention to. You're not going to have every single piece on the journey, but it gives me. And it changes every day. Every day. I'm like, oh, I gotta add this. Oh, I gotta. Right. But the first thing is you have to be in a safe environment. Now that safe environment includes the air you breathe, the water you drink, the food you eat, the hygiene products you put on your skin, the people that are around you. Right. So you've got to be careful to, to curate the people around you, because if they're stressing you out, they're wearing out your nervous system. But we also have to be cognizant of the dental, dental work in our mouths. Do we have cavitations, we have mercury amalgams, do we have what's going on there? So your environment has to be key. That's step one. Step two goes to do you even feel safe in your environment? Like, do you feel safe in your body? And that is more than just the pieces that are in step one. You got to make sure those are right. But then once you get past that, mold makes the body feel unsafe. You're always worried about, am I a mold again? And it's not just the fear of the mold, but it's the relationship that mold has with your neurotransmitters and your brainwaves that because it causes anxiety, paranoia, depression by inflaming your brain. So then you don't feel safe. And it's not because. Because if you did step one, you got to a safe environment. Now you've got to correct those patterns in step two. And step two goes into brain rewiring and retraining so that you can feel safe. So mold doesn't just cause physiological change to your ability to detoxify. And for liver function and mitochondrial energy function, it causes neurological change to the patterning of how you think and how you behave. So it's get to a safe environment and then make yourself feel safe. And those are just two of like the seven step process that I go through in the journey that we go go into. When you're working with somebody like myself or, or any functional medicine practitioner should have something like this in their clinic.

Yeah. And I think you'll see that, you know, is people reach out to, and we can talk about this in a moment, you know, different practitioners. There's no one single path forward. Right. There are a couple, you know, many different ways, I would argue. But I love that you start with the most important one about being in a clean environment. Doesn't mean perfect. And that can mean remediating correctly. And we have resources on our website on, on what that looks like, or in some cases it might mean moving, but it's so important. Right. It's hard to heal in that environment that made you sick or is making you s. One of the things that, you know, we've talked about at Change the Air foundation is, you know, mold and water damage really does impact people in a wide variety of ways. And you kind of started listing some for us. And people tend to think, and I am guilty of this as well, before all of this, I thought, oh, it's just an allergy, I don't have to worry about it, you know, but it's so much more than that. So I thought we could talk briefly, briefly about the different systems or parts of the body and highlight some ways that mold impacts those. Because maybe if you're listening, you might hear something and think, wow, I never would have connected that to maybe a water damage in my home or workplace or school. So let's start with maybe the gut GI stomach area. What happens there when you're exposed to these pollutants?

So when you're exposed to mold, it. It's difficult to just tie down to one symptom. So just for everybody here, whether it's parasites, Lyme, mold, etc. There's a lot of crossover. So then you've got to pick out your top things. You got to run some labs, you gotta do some assessments and you gotta look at the environment, you gotta look at the history to put it all together. So in, in medicine you call it differential diagnosis. So in the gut, when I'm looking for mold, the, the mold will get into your system, your body's trying to clear it out. So you'll get potentially a used up bile storage system. So bile is something that your liver produces. It stores in your gallbladder. If you don't have a gallbladder, stores in your bile duct or inside the liver. This binds up those toxins and helps to pull out the mold and you secrete it out. But your body doesn't want to get rid of it all, all of this because it uses bile. So we need it. So what can happen is then you get a fungal infection in the gut. So some symptoms are going to be bloating or distension. It's going to be a lack of ability to break down fat because that's one of the jobs that bile does. It's going to be a almost cramping like sensation in the stomach where the body is trying to squeeze out the, the toxin in the food and still produce normal function even though you're out of the bile. And then from there mold to suppress the immune system. And when that mold gets into the gut, because remember mold, which is penicillin and aspergillus and these things, that's where a lot of your antibiotics come from. When that gets into your gut, it's going to cause dysbiosis. So it can manifest like a sibo or a bacterial with GI infection. So then now we, we, we have a whole other list of symptoms that can happen. So I do see more with mold being where a person, if they're trying to detox, will end up getting diarrhea. But because their body is in a protection state before they're detoxing, they're mostly constipated. So a lot of people are like in protection mode. If you look at a hair tissue mineral analysis, you're seeing this calcium shell. Look where the calcium levels go really high because they're trying to protect themselves with like a shell almost of calcium. Because the mold is coming from everywhere when you're breathing it in. So those are some of the more GI based symptoms. And I don't, I try not to list off 100 symptoms because it just gets so overwhelming to people. Like, well, you just said every symptom known to man. I'm like, I don't want to be that guy.

Do you? Do. I do have a follow up. Do you? Sometimes. Because I see this a lot in the groups that I, I work in that like all of a sudden someone will be like, we moved and now I've gained like a ton of weight. Or on the flip side, they have a child, maybe the child's not gaining any weight. Is that connected to mold?

Definitely can be. So personal story, I had some mold in my condo and normally I could lose weight pretty darn easily. Just change the types of macros I'm eating, clean up those weekend cheat meals, I'm good to go. And all of a sudden it's been two months. I haven't really changed. I'm eating better than I've ate in in a two month period, than I've done maybe in adult life. What's happening? Mold. It was mold. So mold will cause inflammation within your body, so it increases a liver enzyme. Sorry, I live a protein called C reactive protein. It can increase your sedimentation rate, which both of these are lab tests you can run. And that increase will put water weight under your body so you don't change body weight as easily. But mold stresses your body out where it puts it in a state of fight or flight. So we're now going to be saving Our fat tissue for a rainy day, because your body wants to hold on to it in case you ever run out of food. And you're going to be trying to burn through sugar, because your body, when it's a state of fight or flight, burns through sugar. So you get those adrenal stress responses where you're. You're even a little jumpy, which, you know, we're talking now, nervous system symptoms, not gut, but. So your body actually will retain weight and then stress out because of mold. And then. Yes, some people go the totally opposite way, where this also looks different. So the people that are holding weight typically are the ones that are more constipated. The ones that are not holding weight, their stools are usually more loose because they're dumping the minerals and not holding on to it. So the body's trying to flush itself.

Yeah, I think that's what's so hard, too. And you'll. I'm sure you'll get into this, that mold impacts people in a variety of ways. And there's no. Okay. These five symptoms automatically mean mold. And so I think it. It makes it hard to, you know, diagnose and to pinpoint. But you started to go there. Nervous system. Let's talk about that.

Yeah. So the nervous system is one of the most important pieces of all of this because it affects more than just, do I feel achy, Am I in pain, am I gaining weight? These are very important symptoms, of course. But when you're dealing with someone who's in a derealized or depersonalized state, which are two symptoms that come up with mold a lot. Depression, anxiety, paranoia, ocd. These are symptoms that come up because of inflammation to the brain. It actually can cause autoimmune encephalitis. Kids, it's called pans or pandas. And this is extremely common with mold. I actually looked back at 100 patients that I had seen with PANS, PANDAS, and 98 of them had positive mold markers. When I looked back at people that had mold testing, so only two didn't test positive, which was incredible. So I go, okay, mold is a huge proponent of brain inflammation. And I can run a neural zoomer and see that brain inflammation and I can run mycotoxin, saying, okay, we're positive to that. Now, the correlation, like, can I prove that one caused the other? Not directly. And I do like to say that, you know, I don't have that exact proof yet, but it seems highly correlative. And the nervous system. The nervous system, when you're in Mold, and I mentioned this earlier, is it feels like it's at a constant state of war. It's at a constant state of danger, Constant state of it's not okay or safe here. Which is why my first two steps in my protocol is get to a safe place and then teach your body that it is in a safe place and feel safe. Because mold is, is, is like, you see the wall behind me, there's walls all around me. There's walls all around all of us most of the time, which, if they're toxic with water damage, are releasing something that's toxic to your body all the time. So your consciousness doesn't always know that, but your subconscious always like, what is this coming around me? It's always here. Why am I not safe? Why I'm always defending myself? Why am I trying to detox? And it's just going right. What does a mold patient tend to behave like? You touch them on the shoulder, they jump. They never feel safe. They're always worried. They're, they're. And even if they don't know it's mold, these, these senses are still there. When you tell them it's mold, they're like, oh, that's why I always feel unsafe. That's why I always feel like I'm in danger. That's why I don't trust anyone. That's why I'm anxious. These types of symptoms are there and then. So once we get to a safe place and they're out of mold or we've remediated or whatever step we've taken, it's so important to go back and retrain the body out of that pattern because the body is incredible about adapting to survive. It is not good at taking that adaptation away so that the body then can go back to its rest, digest parasympathetic state where it can actually heal. So the body doesn't shift 100 to sympathetic or parasympathetic, which is fight or flight. And rest, it's always somewhere in the middle. But when it's in this rest state, that's when it heals, that's when it detoxes. That's when all of the recovery happens. When it's over here in fight or flight, it's never doing enough rest. Digest, heal, bring in nutrients. So if you're always on the sympathetic overdrive state, then your body's going to wear itself out. You're going to end up with symptoms like pots, weakness, standing up, getting dizzy, overwhelmed, tired. If you can get yourself back over to the rest, digest Parasympathetic side of things. That's when you start getting your vibrance back over time. But it's not immediate. So that's just a little piece of the nervous system conversation.

No, I think that's so important because you can. Basically what you're saying is you can remove this poison, this pollutant from your environment, your exposure to it, but your body didn't get the message, essentially. Or is it. It's still ramped up thinking that this onslaught is going to happen again. And so you need to take some of those other steps to let your body know that it's in a safe place. I love that. And it's not something that's talked about nearly enough now. You kind of. You kind of talked a little bit in getting into the brain and some of that cognition. You mentioned pans and pandas. I am a parent of a child with pandas pants, so. So I. It's kind of my personal area. I always talk about. Talk to us about that. The whole brain and. And what that does when it's in mold.

So Panspandas, for those who don't know what this is, a pediatric acute neurological onset of a psychiatric disorder originally discovered by the NIH Dr. Swedo, in correlation with strep. And there's a whole lot of information I just threw at you. So what is this? This is inflammation in your brain caused by an immune reaction triggered by something that triggers immune reactions. That something can be strep or mold or mycoplasma. It can be trauma or heavy metals. It can be whatever. Originally, strep was the first discovery, but in my estimation, mold is the number one thing triggering this, because mold causes the nervous system to go in such a fight or flight that it no longer is searching for, is this safe stuff? Is this not safe stuff? Is this brain tissue? Is this something else? And it's just shoot first, ask questions later.

Yeah, I mean, and. And I. I think I've heard you talk about this on other podcasts and. And I'm, sure we'll, you know, do more about it as a foundation. But the prevalence of pans and pandas and kids did have. I heard you say that you think it's like 1 in 200. Am I making that number up?

So panspandas.org has statistical data to state that it's 1 in 200. I think it is far more than that. I mean, far, far, far more than that. One in six kids has a mental health disorder diagnosed at this point in the United States, which comes from the CDC's website. That's their statistic. So somewhere between 1 in 6 and 1 and 200 would be pans pandas. Because what they're finding now, Tourette's 25% of the time can be diagnosed as pans pandas.

Yeah.

Autism is the reason why this was discovered was because autistic kids were being diagnosed as autism. And then they're like, oh, this doesn't quite fit autism. Maybe it's something else. Oh, it's pants pan. This is new diagnosis in 2012 with Dr. Sweeto. So how often is this 1 in 6 kids with a mental health disorder actually because of inflammation to the brain that is correctable for me, I'll give you my opinion probably about 95% of the time.

Yeah.

So I don't necessarily believe that kids are just born broken forever because I've seen far too many kids that when you remove the stressors, whether that be lime or mold or otherwise, and you optimize the system and you retrain the nervous system, all of a sudden now they have the ability to live out their lives without these non neurotypical difficulties of depression, anxiety, OCD sensitivities, sound like color tics. And it's not to say that, that, that you can't live normally with that. But wouldn't it be nice to have the freedom to not, you know, wear your clothes inside out because you can't have a seam touch you.

Yeah.

Or can't eat certain foods because of a texture which many of us have little things like that. But there are so many options for being able to relieve those stressors to just give you the freedom to make whatever choice you want to make.

Yeah, no, and that's so important if you've ever, I'm sure you followed some of Dr. Dale Bredesen's work where he talks about Alzheimer's and the prevalence of, I think it's Alzheimer's 3 or inhalation Alzheimer's and its connection to the indoor environment. And it would be great if, you know, more and more practitioners started asking questions in addition to like your health history and your symptoms. Tell me about your living environment. Tell me about, you know, where you work or you go to school. Because so many of these things we've talked to, you know, talking to you and, and other practitioners who have focused on this, you start seeing it and it starts making sense for so many of your patients and, and we need this message to get out here. So I think the next symptom or system we kind of talk about is the one that people probably most commonly associate with living in a mold or water damage building and that's the sinus and respiratory area. So can you talk to us about what goes on there?

I want to. You said something I've got to comment on. I just have to. Yeah, well, you mentioned Alzheimer's.

Yeah.

Which then type 3 diabetes. Right. Type 3 is Alzheimer's. Now they, they made that a while ago. But diabetes, Alzheimer's, MS, these are names that have been given to pathological changes in the body. They are not causes. Someday people like you and me and Brian Kerr and Dr. Jess, we want to change the way that this looks. We look for what's causing problems. Mold and Lyme and parasites, not diagnosing the problem that was caused. So when you talk about Alzheimer's and pans, okay, sure. Pans tells me the physiological problem, but what caused it. If we can remove that, then the physiological problem goes away. So stop being in a medicine where we diagnose and symptomatically treat, whereas we can shift to where we diagnose a problem and then we get rid of it and the symptom, which is what we are currently giving names to, which is Alzheimer's, can go away. So that is the, the, the passion that I have is educating people on what is actually going on. Like I had a client come into my office with massive brain fog, almost dementia level issues. Also blood sugar of 249 every single morning on three diabetic medications. I figured out that they were living in mold which they could not leave because they don't have the money to. So I made some suggestions that made the situation better. Not perfect, better. Excuse me, with within four weeks the blood sugar went down from 249 to 149 on average every morning. Just by making the situation better. Not even great. I can almost tell you by the time I'm done with this woman, her blood sugars are going to be within the normal ranges. Hemoglobin A1C by the way went down from like an 11.8 to 7. She's still on the medications going to get her off at least two of those medications is what the end experience is going to be for her because she's not going to need them and her blood sugar is going to be better. Her brain is already turned back on. I can have a conversation with her now without her husband having to be there to interpret for her and then replay it for her later on and kind of talk her through it. Because of how bad mold is affecting her. I just had to say that because people have to get an understanding that Alzheimer's, dementia, Parkinson's, diabetes are symptoms physiologically of what's happening from a causation. Okay, so we can go back to your question. I'm so sorry for my.

No, I. I feel like we could do a whole interview just on that. And it's something like. Like you, I'm. I'm super passionate about. And Brandon Chapa, who's one of our co founders, you know, he talks about how he was sick for so long, and it was finally one doctor, and it was her third question. She asked, tell me about where you're living. And he remembers being floored. Like, well, why are you asking that? And. Because she was the first one. And. And it's what changed everything for him and started him down this path. Because so many of these things, I think, can be preventable, can be reversible, and you can feel well, and I'm sure you've seen it. So people just want to feel better. Okay, sinus and respiratory. What's going on there?

So mold can colonize your body, and it can. It can colonize in your sinuses. Right. So you could have a mold colony, like, on your wall, in here, in your face. Right. You can have it in your gut, and you can have it in your blood. So you said sinus and respiratory. I just wanted to make sure people knew. It can be in your body.

Yep.

So then if it's in your sinus and respiratory, what's going on here? Well, you don't have an immune system that can defend you here. So then we have to do something to get it out. It can cause a constant output of mycotoxins into your body. That is keeping your body stressed out, like a sinus infection from a bacteria or otherwise. It can cause pressure, it can cause allergens, it can cause sensitivity to the skin on your face. It can cause swelling and lymph nodes issues. So you can definitely have that in your sinuses, causing your irritation. I've seen people go get cfr, so craniofacial release, where they stick a little bone in your nose, and they blow it up and it unclogs the contra in your nose. You have six, and all of a sudden, they're blowing out black char chunk stuff. So sorry for the visual, everyone, but imagine if you lived in mold, have chronic mold symptoms, continue seeing chronic mold toxicities in your labs. You've done all the things right. You've taken the nasal Sprays, but it's blocked. And now somebody goes in there and opens it up. All of a sudden you're like, blow your nose and you're like, what in the heck? That's not blood coming out. That's not mucus coming out. That's black chunks. Like, are you blowing out stachybotches? What is this? Right, so stacky bottom black mold, by the way.

Yep.

I know everybody here probably knows what I'm what that was. But if you didn't, that's what it is. So I've seen this happen. So you can be colonized, you can get it out. You don't have to always go that far. You can do different nasal sprays. I've done carboxyl X clear para threes. There are VIP medications, there are antifungals that can go up the nose. There's all kinds of things you can do. Mark on testing in your nose. And mold, by creating inflammation in your body alone can hinder the ability for your alveoli in your lungs, which are the parts of your lungs that pull in oxygen. So that inflammation can hinder the villi from pulling in oxygen off your red blood cells. But it can also, that's backwards, the avilli to give the red blood cells oxygen that way. It can also create where you have fungus in your lungs or fungus in your blood, which then can create toxins that stress your system, creating more inflammation or blocking oxygenation of tissue. So there's a number of things that happen from mold being in your body, from inflammation to blockage to asthmatic reactions. Because now your body is overreacting to pollutants or pollens or molds that are coming in. So your body is scared of. So it's contracting and having asthmatic type reactions. So anytime a kid has asthma, I'm like, are we in an environment that's safe? Are we breathing okay? Is our body overreactive to whatever's in the air for a reason? That reason may be mold. It may also be parasites because the immune system itself. Let's just think about what's it doing. Why would you have an allergic reaction? Because the body identifies this as a problem. Why is it a problem? Is it toxic to me? Is it infectious to me? Is it going to cause me damage? So if we really just step back and look at all the different things that we put into our body. Let's pick some foods. Is broccoli an allergen? Is chicken an allergen? Are salmons being allergen? For the most part, the Food we eat should not be the air we breathe. We've been on this planet for as long as humankind has been here. We've been around the same plants for about the, the same length of time. I mean, sure, maybe your ancestors moved to a different place with a different plant. That's possible. Should we be having a throat closing type reaction to our environment? No, we shouldn't. So then why is that happening more and more and more as we are on the planet longer? Well, the plants aren't changing that fast, so then we must be. Why are we changing? Well, we've changed the way that we live, so we're contaminating ourselves with VOCs and molds and toxins around us more often. So now our body is overreacting because it doesn't feel safe. So if we can retrain it to feel safe, get it out of the toxic environment, guess what happens to a lot of your food allergies, your airborne allergies? They go away. I used to be on allergy medication. I now if I have a sniffly nose, I'm like, what in the heck is going on? Like, what did I eat? What. What room I. What were. What toxic environment I am? Because I can go to a hotel that I know has mold because everybody else is having reactions. And I go, I'm getting a tiny little bit of drainage. Okay, there's mold here. Should I stay here? How bad is it? You know, what's the risk factors? Can I ozone my room? Which I take a little mini ozone with me to my hotel. That's me. Therage has them little mini ozoners, tiny, compact fit in your travel case. But I noticed that those little reactions that mean something. And then I can evaluate from there. I'm not overreacting to it. I'm just reacting, going, huh? My body's telling me that I need to pay attention. That's what should be happening. Not I get a migraine, I can't get out of bed. I feel horrible.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. We people tend to forget that. You know, we spend over 90% of our time indoors, and most of those buildings we know from EPA studies have problems. And so, you know, we need to start asking some of those questions about, you know, what's in our air. Now. The next system I would talk about, I feel like is not talked about enough. What about your reproductive health?

Beware. If you're one of the people on this podcast and you say, I can't get pregnant and you take advice from docs that are in this Field beware. It's possible. I've had women walk into my clinic who I say women. 90% of my clientele or followers are women. So I work with a lot of women, but 90, but I've had them come in there. I can't get pregnant. We've been trying for whatever length of time. So I'm gonna give up and I'm just gonna come here and try and get well because, you know, I'm tired and I'm brain fogged and, and I just, I just wanted to work on me. So it's not even for fertility. And then six months in. Oopsie.

Yeah.

And we know that they have lime and mold and all these other things because we're working on. We tested for them, we found it's positive. We're not done yet. So I'm like, well, I guess I get two patients later.

Yeah.

But congratulations, you, you got pregnant. And I know that was a topic. So I tell women now that tell me that I'm like, beware.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You may be adding to your brood. Well, and it can affect, you know, the, the effect it has on hormones and menstrual cycles and things like that. It really, it does a number.

Yeah. If you, if you move into a place of mold, you're likely going to skip your next period.

Yeah.

And then after that it'll probably come back and it will be severe in comparison to where it was because now your liver can't process the hormones. So then you end up becoming estrogen dominant, which then puts potentially into PCOS or something of that nature. Menstrual cycles change. If you're in really toxic mold, it can just shut down menstruation completely. I've had women where there's seven years no menstruation, and then we get them in a safe environment, all of a sudden menstruating again.

Yeah.

Which they don't always love me for that, but I tell them that just means you're more youthful. Right. Because menstruating is, is something you do when you're, you're young. Try to tell that to a 42 year old that hadn't had one in seven years. She doesn't like you very much.

Yeah. I mean, well, yeah. People are like, oh, perimenopause. I'm like, you shouldn't be in your 30s starting perimenopause. Like there's something else going on. And, and you know, I've heard doctors like, oh, well, it's just how it is today. I'm like that. We shouldn't be lowering the number because more people are experiencing. We should be asking why we should.

Be getting healthier with the advent of technology. Not sicker.

Yeah, I think too. Well, I don't want to go down this because we could probably go down another path. But let's talk about the lymphatic system. Some people don't know what that is. So could you also explain to us what that is?

Yeah. So everybody knows what a blood vessel is. We've all had a blood drawn at some point. We bled. Right. So blood vessels run throughout our entire body. There's arteries which carry blood, there's veins which also carry blood. But the arteries pump. The veins don't have any musculature to, to move. Well, they have a little bit, but not a whole lot. So they, they're more of the backflow. So arteries push it out in the body, veins bring it back. Lymph is your waste vessel. So lymph allow for all the waste from your cells that are healing or repairing the. They're cleaning you out if you have an infection or a mold that it gets pushed into there. So they're your, your, your waist lines. Right. And they don't have any muscular. There's no smooth muscle around them like arteries. So arteries can pump and they can move stuff through it and help you to get the blood out there. Lymph doesn't have any of that. So lymph, you have to pump if you want it to move. And it's what's carrying all the toxic junk out of you. So lymph is extremely important to make sure it's continuing to move when you're in mold, you're filling it up, you are over overwhelming lymph often, which, if you've ever had a knot in the back of your neck when you're sick or if you're dealing with something. And there's lymph here, there's lymph here, there's lump all the way up into the mandibles. And here, there's lymph in here, there's lump under here. There's lump all over your body. And these are lymph nodes. And your doctor should at some point have checked these. And if you're feeling tight in those areas, it can cause pain. Pain and cause headaches. But mold will definitely cause issues in these areas. And some simple things that you can do here is of course you could do a safe place. We've already been over that. It's to massage those and massage in the direction they're supposed to go. So notice when I'm doing this, I'm always massaging down, taking my hand off, massaging down. We never want to go up. We don't want to drive that mold back into your brain. We don't want to drive it back into the, out to the, the extremities. We want to drive it inward because inward takes the lymph the way it's supposed to go. So you can do things like dry brushing, you're going to do vibration plates, lymph massage, castor oil packs, and just simply moving. Because when you flex your muscles, it squeezes the lymph, and when it squeezes the lymph, then it pushes it forward. So you exercising, even if you're laying in bed, just flexing is moving lymph, which helps clean your body out. So that drainage funnel of you breathe mold in, which isn't the drainage part, but that's where it's coming in. Right. And then it gets into your lungs and your tissues and it absorbs throughout your body and then it gets into your cells. So then we've got to, we've got to go backwards to help set you up for success, which means you got to be pooping. Then we got to clean out your colon, then your liver, and then after that, we've got to clean the bloodstream, the lymph, the cells, and then finally up to the brain. And it's actually in about that order that you have to go and support each mechanism going up so that when you actually go, okay, it's time to go. Let's give some ala, some glutathione, some mitochondrial pushes to flush the mold that it can actually follow that path out without getting recirculated or blocked up.

That's helpful. And, you know, one of the things I've done dry brushing myself and with my kids is that that's a good kid friendly one too. They tend to like it. Last but not least, let's talk liver and kidneys.

Yeah. So the main detox organs that people talk about, although your skin is one also. Yeah. Your lungs are a detox organ too, but liver and kidneys. Right. So if you are dealing with mold toxicity, it's going to stress your system. Often times we'll see a gfr, which is glomerular filtration rate. So this is the way that they track kidneys. A lot of times will start to go down because your body gets stressed. It's releasing a lot of electrolytes and water out of your body due to the adrenal hormones that cause that. And so then you see this lowering of the GFR. So if you're below 50, your GFR should be 90 plus. If you're above 50, it slowly starts to come down. Although I still like seed above 90 when I'm getting a 30 year old at 70 or 68, we're getting a little bit too close because kidney monitoring and kidney failure starts below 60. Now you don't need interventions from dialysis or something till much lower than that. We gotta start paying attention to the strain that, that these toxins are putting on your body. And then you also look at creatine level in your blood work. And if creatine is above 1, it is breaking down your kidneys. If it's below 0.7, then your body, you're actually probably not moving a lot and your kidneys aren't moving a lot. So you're actually creating less creatine, which is a breakdown of tissues is another thing that can show kidneys. So you want to be in that sweet spot in the middle there. And that's what your kidneys are doing. Now your liver, your liver is my, one of my favorite organs to talk about. It's so popular. If your liver stressed out, you're going to be resentful and angry. If you're looking at eastern medicine, so you might feel a little bit more irritable. And then your hormones oftentimes aren't right because the liver filters them. So you, I mentioned earlier, you might see a high estrogen, you're going to see in men, low testosterone, often with the stress that's being placed on the body. And then you actually might see higher estrogen for male levels because the body is aromatizing testosterone into estrogen and then not being able to clean that estrogen out, aromatizing and converting. And then the liver itself does so much of the flushing out of mold, so it's filtering out that mold and it needs extra bile. So I'm using things like milk thistle and tudka n acetylcysteine and glutathione to help support the liver so that we can do the process of getting mold out. Because the body will need help to get mold out, you know, especially when it's completely overwhelmed and stressed. And then the last thing that doesn't get talked about on the liver nearly enough is mitochondria are your body's energy system, right? So they are what make energy, they make ATP. So ATP is your gasoline. Mitochondria is what produces it. So we've got to make the energy and then we got to use the energy. Well, your liver have 5,000 mitochondria per cell. Your brain is 10,000. Your muscle tissue has 500 per cell. So if you listen to that, you wonder why with mold being such a suppressant, such a stressor for your brain, we actually need to make sure that we are supporting brain and liver mitochondria so much so that they can do their functions. So I like to make sure that your potassium levels up, your B12 is up, that you're actually being able to fuel with CoQ10 and D ribose and L carnitine, all those mitochondria, so that they can do their job and appropriately be able to detoxify you.

Yeah, that's so helpful. And I think for anyone listening, I know that may have been overwhelming, there is good news like you get to a better place, your body wants to heal itself and with some of these supports it can. So this is a great segue in my next question. If someone is listening and they want to get tested or treated for this, what kind of doctor typically handles mold related illnesses? And then a follow up would be what kinds of tests do you run for your patients that are most beneficial?

So the doctor that's going to run this for you, honestly is the one that's been through it or the one that their clientele have been through it and it drove them this direction because there's not a md, do dc, nppa, specialty in chronic illness or mold. It's, it's usually a pain to purpose situation. Their wife, their children, themselves have been through this. So they usually are probably putting information on their website, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube, whatever about mold because they know that the education needs to be put out there. So there's not a type. They're usually more in the natural, holistic, functional medicine realms, but not always because there's a lot of functional medicine docs that don't know about mold. So make sure they're talking about it. And then testing wise, there's a multitude of tests you can do blood testing that Dr. Richie Shoemaker kind of was the beginning of. He, he was the, the guy that brought these to the forefront. They're testing more for inflammatory or immune responses that are not 100 tied to mold. So C4A could be mold elevation or Lyme elevation. But then there's msh, VIP and a number of other blood tests that go through his work that can be on there. But I personally like to run an organic acid test and then a mycotoxin urine test. So mycotoxins are looking for the DNA of the mycotoxins. I use either GPL or Vibrant America for those testing. There is Real time lab also, which is good. I just personally don't use it as much.

And that's a urine collection for anyone listening.

Yeah, yeah. And then the organic acid test gives me a ton of information. That being that so many of my clients are dealing with mold, I have really put together patterns. If you're dealing with oxalate elevation in your organic acid test, oxalate being a byproduct that mold also can put off and it can cause mitochondrial damage and it causes kidney stones in your body, achiness and kids. It can cause OCD and irritability. This elevates with mold. If we see more than two or three markers that are elevated in your Krebs cycle or your fatty acid oxidation cycles, then it tells me that your energy system suppressed but is likely again due to mold. If you have any sort of metabolic issues with methylation that have elevated due to toxicity. So it's a methylation toxic exposure marker on, on an oat. If I see that elevated, I'm going to again go back to thinking, is this mold? So those are some signs, but then also an organic acid test. There are specific acids that are associated with aspergillus colonization in your body or fuserium colonization your body to two types of mold. So that's what I like to run when I'm looking at mold, along with dabbling into the blood tests at times. But the blood tests can also be pretty expensive, not usually covered by insurances, and a little bit more on the suggestive than the direct. So that's why I like to use the urine test a little more.

Yeah. And I think the hard thing too is people want a single test, a single definitive test and it just doesn't exist. So it's really about putting all the pieces together, testing on your end. And I know you asked about your client's environment and, and that whole picture. So we're running out of time. But I have my favorite question to ask people is what do you personally do to keep you and your loved ones safe and healthy?

So the laundry list, here we go. So I, I created the safest environment I possibly could in my home. So we use all natural hygiene and cleaning products so that we're not breathing in extra chemicals. We use no plastics. So these are just the basics. We eat organic food we drink distilled water that we restructure and remineralize with cell core CT minerals and therasages, little Brita looking type filter thing. So those are just some of the, the basics there. But for mold more specifically, when we go to hotel rooms, we're taking the ozone little machine. We do that and then we leave and we go, you know, on our trip and, and go out and have dinner, we come back and then the, the room's been ozoned so that the molecules of mold that are in there drop to the ground. And it's not perfect, but it's better. We have two air doctors each that are equipped to completely filter our entire home. So we have two of them. Because I want to double do it. Yeah, because that's the type of person I am. I keep my windows open as much as possible because air in and out of the house is great. I want that air going in and out. We double check our toilets, sinks especially like the little crevices, flip the toilet tank up and down to look and see, make sure there's no water in there. We do that probably once a month. And then this is not out of fear, this is just out of cleanliness for your home to make sure that there's not mold growing. And we typically don't find a whole lot, but it's a monthly check and then the other pieces internally inside my body. I am a big proponent of doing a full moon protocol for either parasites or infections at least once a quarter, along with doing mitochondrial support every single day. Always red light, every single day, always sauna, probably every single week. And these are just things that I do to optimize my body and then move. I work out more than I should about six days a week. And I'm just always rotating and changing what I'm doing. But I love working out because it allows for my body to move, which supports my mitochondria, supports my mental health, and then supports my lymph system for detoxing.

I love that. And some of these things that you can do right now, today, right, like get out and walk and focus on what you're eating and swapping out your, you know, cookware, no plastic, that kind of thing. And, and so you don't have to make every change today. Right. But I'm sure you tell your clients like, start with the big ones and you, you do the best you can with what you have and you're continually working on it. Thank you so much for being here. This has been incredibly helpful. If someone wanted to contact you to learn more or follow you. Where could they find you?

Yeah, so just look up Dr. Jabin Moore spelled J a B as in boy a N. And we have something on all the platforms pretty much Instagram, Facebook and our website are probably our biggest contact forms. We have lots of free information we put out all the time because we just want to educate. We want people to have informed consent on making their decisions with as much information as possible.

And I can attest to the fact that your Instagram and Facebook is super user friendly and and you do such a great job of conveying that in an easy to understand way. So I encourage people to check that out. Well, if you're listening, thank you so much. If you could do us a favor and like follow and share us on Instagram, you can help spread the message and raise awareness. We'll see you next time. Thanks so much.