#16 Megan Lightcap of Slow Ventures: How Content Creators Become Unicorns

Are you still investing based on the model of potential $1 billion+ outcomes from these creators?

The short answer is yes, and I think like the $1 billion number is arbitrary. It's actually more directional than that, which is we like to partner with people with huge ambition and who want to build something to the scale of a billion, right? And so it's not that, you know, that's the watermark in which they have to hit and whatnot, but it's more actually about the mindset of like where they want to take the business, what they want to build, what they're shooting for, versus again, you meet a lot of creators who are focused on building their content and media, um, but have no interest in like building a big thing and managing teams and doing the whole thing. So it's less about like the specific number and more about the mindset.

Welcome everyone, I'm Cristina Subatino, founder of Lowlace and Lexi, and I'm thrilled to have you here today for this discussion on how content creators are evolving into billion-dollar business founders. And before we dive in, I'd like to introduce our incredible guest and speaker, Megan Lightcap, a partner at Slow Ventures, one of the leading early-stage VC firms. Megan leads their content creator fund that backs creator-led businesses. Megan, thank you for joining us.

Yeah, so excited to be here. Thanks for putting this together.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate what you do and you guys just raised $60 million fund and allocated that fund for content creators. So I assume you would be busy deploying. That's why you came here. So I would definitely need to talk about, you know, what are you looking for in creators? What differentiates creators who are successful building businesses who are not, and your view and, uh, kind of the thesis. Also, just a little quick introduction about myself. I've been a corporate lawyer for the past 8+ years. I used to work at Cooley, where Slow Ventures actually was my client, Sam. And September 2023, I became a US citizen and started my own, uh, startup, living my American dream. I have a law firm for startups and Lexy, AI-powered legal products and subscriptions with human lawyer in the loop. I'll talk a little bit more about Lexy at the end of our session because I've built Lexy exactly as a content creator. People come to me because I create content and they buy those products from my social media. Okay, what we will cover today. In this session, we will break down how creators are leveraging their audience to build and scale businesses. What investors like Slow Ventures look for in creator-led startups and key case studies of content creators who have successfully turned their influence into billion-dollar brands. We will talk about MrBeast, Marina McGill, Kulingua Marina. That was the first investment on the content side that Slow Ventures did, so it's important to break it down. And I'll tell you a little bit about my journey from zero to one, so you can see, you know, how like, yeah, there is MrBeast level, but how the journey is starting. And as a bonus, I will share free Startup Launch and Due Diligence Checklist. So if you are starting a startup or you're preparing for fundraising, you have 3 free resources to make sure you're ready to receive funding. Okay, so why, why this matters? Why the creator to founder revolution matters at all? Because creators are no longer just influencers. They're entrepreneurs building billion-dollar businesses. And investors are recognizing that some of the most valuable brands tomorrow will not be individuals. Not just companies. Creators are building real investable businesses, not just monetizing their content. And investors like Slow Ventures are actively backing creator-led startups. And we will explore what separates high-growth creator startups from the rest. Megan, I would love to pass the baton to you just to learn a little bit about your thesis and what you think separates the best from the good from not good.

Yeah, sure. So at a very, very high level, I mean, our thesis is that there's subset of creators, right, who are very entrepreneurial and go out and occupy a specific niche or vertical and become, you know, have deep authority and deep community within that space. And by virtue of just spending time with their audience and time in the category, oftentimes we'll realize, you know, specific opportunities for business formation or company formation that specifically serve a problem or opportunity that they see or that they're hearing from, hearing from their audience. And What's really interesting for us at least is these are people that have, you know, distribution and community, and then, and then are layering on products and services. And so it's this new pattern of kind of business building that we've identified that we get really, really excited about. And so I think for us, you know, the, the, the ones that we look for are folks that again are, you know, occupy a specific space or vertical or niche and really have ambitions to build companies and think about their content and media not as the end, but really as a means to an end with with respect to kind of what they want to build. The thing I'd say is, you know, this certainly isn't for everyone. Our model is certainly not for everyone. And, you know, there are plenty of amazing creators who are building small, you know, media companies that are doing incredibly well but may not be interested or may not need, you know, venture financing. So it's a new model, and I think our job as investors is, is really just super simply to match early-stage capital with, with founders, irrespective of who they are, where they start, where they distribute, kind of where they come from. Um, and I think, you know, certain creators are, are, are that. So that's, uh, at a very high level what we do.

Awesome. So maybe we can just break down a couple of examples. Megan, we had a conversation, you like, for example, you guys not investing in those who have pet accounts, right? So there are certain limitations. I wanted to cover, um, two examples and then pass the baton again to you. MrBeast, couple of my friends actually invested in him, uh, 776 Ventures than DoorDash co-founder. And what's cool about MrBeast, he already has incredible distribution, right? Over 200 million YouTube subscribers. So when he created the Feastable, the chocolate bars, and then MrBeast Burger to monetize his audience like at scale, I think he has over 100 million in sales in the first year or something like that. So it's incredible how you can monetize that. And another example, which is you guys, is Marina. So in— it's interesting, Marina Mogilko, she didn't have a product specifically when you invested in her. So you invested in the brand. She had a couple of things that she was selling, right? Courses, brand deals, mentorship programs. She's actually was my mentor for my content. She helped me to grow my Instagram. And only now as a lawyer, I'm helping her to launch a product, healthy snacks. For kids. So it's what, 2, 3 years ago you invested in her. She didn't have a product. So I would love to see your perspective on how you approaching and evaluating content creators. They don't have to have a product right away. You just, you just see the potential in them because they have large following.

Yeah. So going back to the Beast example, cause I think it's a, it's one that we talk about a lot just because people know him and are familiar, somewhat familiar at least with his structure in that you know, he has this holding company which really represents the MrBeast brand. And then underneath that, he has a bunch of subsidiary companies, you know, one for his media, one for Feastables, one for Lunchly, one for ViewStats, and so on and so forth. And so we— I'm very close to the Beast team and give them a ton of credit for one, just like giving us a shared language to talk about this stuff, number one. And then two, honestly, for really giving creators permission to be like, no, you can be like a super serious entrepreneur, right? And like take big swings and do amazing amazing things. So just want to say, like, give them a ton of credit for, like, really pushing the industry forward, both in terms of what people have permission to do and then also thinking through actually, like, how to properly structure it. So with that being said, though, MrBeast is probably not, you know, had we, had we seeded him from, from the very beginning, obviously we would have done well, but I think he's so broad and general, right? He's like more a general entertainment creator and you could argue he's like a creator's creator, but you know, if you think about his audience and community, it's not like he occupies a very specific niche or vertical, which is, by the way, why he launched chocolate, right? It's, it's one of these products that is, it's kind of like the least common denominator, right, for his audience. He would have been hard for us to, to look at and be like, okay, we know how to underwrite this. Um, because he, like, the category wasn't immediately clear. His audience, low LTV, young kids, right, is a little bit challenged. Um, but I think where we, it would have spiked is like him as the entrepreneur for sure. He's like totally Totally got it. And so for a bunch of reasons, he's not really our target. Um, but there are things to kind of glean from both him as a, as a creator entrepreneur, and then also just like pushing the structure forward. Now that brings me to Marina, which we met her and granted, I, I was not at Slow when, when Sam did the deal, but very similar to Jimmy, like Marina is just a fabulous entrepreneur, right? Like she had a startup prior to, prior to launching YouTube and, and, and launching her, her creator career. Um, her mind is wired. Like a founder, right? And she's constantly thinking about how do you grow, what problems to solve, what there, what should exist in the world. And just like with this lens towards like, honestly, rapid experimentation. And so what got us excited is her as like an entrepreneur first and foremost. And then she does have this, you know, deep trust and community in and around people who are really inspired by her journey of like coming to the United States, building a startup and assimilating into this culture and building, basically chasing the American dream and doing so as an immigrant. And her content is deeply inspiring. Um, turns out there's, you know, a whole bunch of people that her content and, you know, focus really resonates with. And so for, for her, we didn't invest when there was a specific product or idea, which by the way, I think in hindsight we've gotten, when we, when we think about investing, we generally like to see a little bit more progress on the actual companies being built, but we took comfort in the fact that amazing entrepreneur with a really deep community that loves her for a very specific thing. And like she had every ambition to start to like go build. She's someone that we're continuing to be obviously super excited about. She's been an amazing partner and we love working with her and supporting her.

So yeah, and thank you. I think she was the first investment I think you made in a content creator. So I guess it's going well if now you have a fund. Dedicated to content creators. And Marina is a friend. So it was really interesting. A couple of years ago, I was very interested from the legal perspective how it's structured, that there is a holding company and investors get percentage of all future earnings from any business that that content creator creates using their social media following. So it's—

I will say it's changed a little slightly from the Marina— from the Marina days in that it was our first investment. I think we were trying to figure out the model. And so now it's really, we're really more focused on like the equity in the companies that he or she maybe, maybe building and honestly like care a lot less about like the AdSense and the brand deals and more of the like media-focused income. So it's funny because a lot of her headlines focus on like earnings and that type of thing. And it's actually like not where we are today. And so it's been a little bit of trying to reeducate the market on how we think about this. Um, but like the spirit of the deal still stands, which is we just want to back her and want to be like holistically and maximally aligned with Marina and what she launches to the community. Our perspective is like, should in theory go into the holdco, right? Because it's, it's whatever she is building to kind of serve the community should, should in theory go in.

Yeah, I agree. And in terms of especially when you have your own product, they make you so much more money. So for example, right now I have this brand deal for a reel and a story and I'm like, what should I charge them? Like, okay, I'm going to do I can do that, but I can like charge like $2K, but that's just the cheapest product I have. It's so much better to sell your own products at scale than to take brand deals. So I think it totally makes sense. And especially when you do brand deals, there is the trust component. If the product, the brand deal is not that great, then you might be losing the trust. And that's the only thing that you have with your audience.

Yeah. And what I think, Christina, too, is like, Another way to think about it, which is basically me saying the same thing, but, but in a little bit more like business parlance is like, as a creator, you can optimize for like short-term cash, which is totally reasonable, by the way, in which case you would want to do brand deals, you'd want to do more advertising-based things, or you can think about constructing your world around like, like deep enterprise value. And so you may not actually take that brand deal and you may do, you may think about, you know, doing a community event or launching your own product or doing something that contributes to the core EV of the creator and of the business, which by the way may not be the most cash generative thing short term. So it's just this funny trade and I think it's a very personal, um, very personal decision based upon what the creator wants to go do and what, you know, he or she's ambitions may be with respect to, you know, business building and whatnot.

Yeah. Let's just take one question from the audience and I'll, um, I'll share the personal story and, uh, would be also nice to, uh, you know, get feedback from Megan Lightcap. I think it would be helpful for folks to understand, you know, how you guys think using the specific examples. Actually, one more question. What about Kylie Jenner? Like, she monetized the audience and then that trust kind of was a little bit broken from what I've, from what I could observe. So like, she became a billionaire, but like, what is your take on her?

Yeah, well, it's funny. I think to me, celebrities are kind of in a different bucket. And so it's just hard to compare and contrast. I think celebrities obviously have broad distribution, broad reach, wide audience, but oftentimes you see that they lack the, like, deep trust. And I think that's part of the reason why we get so excited about, like, verticals and niches where people love you for what you do and how you deliver information, not necessarily for who you are. Which I think is a subtle but important distinction here, which is, you know, way more consistent with like expert categories, hobbyists, enthusiasts, different niches and whatnot. So, you know, I think it's very hard to comment on someone like Kylie in the context of what we're doing just because it's a slightly different— it's just a different flavor of this.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Let's take one question from the audience. Do you find a difference or have seen more success on B2B or B2C models for these content creator founders?

Great question. I think they very, very similar to like seed investing. It's just they're, they're different types of business model, right? And different customers. And so we've, we've certainly seen creators who are selling, the product is actually selling into companies, right? Who are making decisions on behalf of a company or on behalf of business. And then obviously we've seen a lot of creators who are quote unquote B2C. The dirty little secret is that they're kind of the same, right? Like we're in this world where I think there's this convergence between B2B and B2C that is happening so fast where if you think about it, when you're selling B2B, you're selling to a person, and that person has to like build trust with you, understand your motives, like quite frankly, like you as a person, right? And, or like you as a creator. And so there are different business models, obviously there are different considerations on sales cycles and things like that, and, and you know, the types of companies you create more often. But at the end of the day, it's, it's kind of the same thing in a way. So it's just, there's differences on the surface, but I think at its core, you know, there's more similarities.

I agree with you, Megan, and I think it's a good introduction for the personal story because I'm selling to startups, right? So I'm kind of selling to B2B, but guess to whom I'm selling? To founders. So it's actually B2C. And that was also an important question for me when I was just starting, especially on Instagram. I was like, would people even buy anything on like of good quality on Instagram? Would people be looking for legal services on Instagram? So I actually didn't have conviction, so I decided to experiment and I realized that the founders are there and they make the decision to purchase, like founders, CFOs. So you're selling to humans. And so my journey of having the sales funnel in my social media started from, I didn't mean to sell through social media, but I just started sharing legal tips with founders with the idea and the conviction and the knowledge that I had from my 8+ years of experience being a corporate lawyer is that founders don't know they have a problem until they have a problem. They wouldn't read blog posts or anything boring and long until they are in the middle of fundraising and a lead doesn't give, refuses to invest because co-founder doesn't have the shares in the company or 83B election is missed and things have to be fixed. So I had that hypothesis and I just started sharing legal tips, legal horror stories with my audience on Instagram, on LinkedIn. And it's basically a combination of my clients stories of my clients and public stories. So I protected the confidential information. So I jumped a lot of things into, into those stories. But because these things happen all the time, a lot of people see themselves in that legal story. They binge on my content and they're like, shit, this is me. And then they start reading captions where I explain how you can prevent this costly legal mistake. Then they download a really good checklist or a guide on how to go about these things. And then they get into to my sales funnel where I solve their problem. So these are just examples of Instagram Short videos. And then I started thinking, what can I do? If I sell services, this is not scalable. How can I serve my audience and clients? And that's how I created AI-powered legal products with the human lawyer in the loop. So the first product was the Startup Launch Package for $2,400. And it's basically, I accumulated everything that my audience was telling me that they need in a package. And perfected it and automated. Then I started seeing that the founders would come to me saying, oh, I already launched the startup on Clerky, Stripe Atlas, and now I have this mess. What do I do? I'm like, okay, I don't have a package for that. So I created that package. Recently, last week, I will launch the subscription package for $2,500 because we had a bunch of equity hiring packages and people like, I have a little bit of this, I have a little bit of that. Christina, what, what, like, what could it be? So I created that because people tell me they, they need that. And it's very easy to create products when you have the community. So last year we made over $500K and $100K came from the legal products, from social media. And honestly, when I was starting the social media and the legal products, I was not sure whether I'm just going to be like semi-famous, but but this proved to be right strategy. And when I was starting out for a lawyer, like Megan, you were saying that the niche, when you're top professional, it's a little bit cringe, right? Like you are ex-Big Law lawyer and then you are like dancing, you know, or in a dress or like you're recording yourself on the airplane. But that was actually advice from Marina Magilko, who, by the way, purchased my Startup Launch Package. She's a client. That was her advice. You have to meet your audience where they are. You're not like if you're boring, people wouldn't, wouldn't notice that. So I met where my audience is, although I'm a pedigree lawyer. And obviously, like, you know, I have the more complex, boring content. But what performs really well is short-form content with legal horror story and captions. And then the product that I sell is sophisticated, complicated, but we do it on the backend for the client and we utilize technology to scale it. So that's like last year. I didn't know it's going to work out. It worked out. And now we're thinking, okay, how can we build the platform? How we actually can scale that and automate more products to serve the community better? Because from everything that I know that currently there is Stripe Atlas, there is Clerky, but lawyers, they are so conservative. So definitely they are not on social media. And very few lawyers provide tech-enabled legal services. So I saw the opportunity that no one is doing it. And in order to do that, you have to have a weird combination of being a lawyer who is conservative, but also entrepreneurial and also creative. So I just saw like my, my niche in that. And I decided to double down on that. Okay, Megan, maybe it would be good if you can just like give the feedback or how people can think from that perspective, right? This journey, what they can learn from that, what is good, what is bad as an outsider.

Yeah. So I think two things kind of come to mind. So one is as it relates to like building your community and you as a creator. And I think the second is how to think about like expansion and products and all that stuff. So the first is like, and I think Christina, you and I, you and I had this conversation is like, it's very easy to get caught up in this idea of just amassing followers. And we're in this world now where it's actually starting to matter. That headline number is starting to matter less and less. And it's way more about why people are engaging with you, what their level of like super fandom is. And, and, you know, like what that engagement looks like and how deep that community is. And, and one way to do that, especially in these verticals and niches, is like really spend time thinking about how to develop yourself as the go-to person in whatever space. And whether that means building your personal brand around it, you know, get going on other people's podcasts or other, you know, getting exposure in that capacity and just really focus exclusively not on the number, but on like just like deep expertise and, and really developing that like sustainable, like the, the, the beginnings of that like enterprise value. And it's, it's a very hard thing to articulate. Um, but I think some of the best creators, they, they're just like way more, way more lasting. And then the second thing is when you think about kind of product development or company development, should you want to go that route, think about what would be accretive versus extractive to your community. So I think there's this feeling a lot of creators have of like, oh my God, like I have to launch something because everyone else is launching something and I'm leaving money on the table and this and that. And there may be short-term wins in that, but I think again, if you're playing for this like longer-term durable enterprise value game, I think you really wanna be super thoughtful about what products and services you launch that your community will actually really benefit from. So one of the examples, which is not in the creator world, but kind of, um, just to like really illustrate what I mean, is like Rihanna and Fenty, right? Like she launched her Fenty brand because she was like, there's no shade range for women of color. And like, we are completely left out. And she kind of had that insight, you know, herself, but then also talking to her community. And she, it turns out it was like deadly spot on. And she built an unbelievable business around it, an unbelievable brand. And so there's, I mean, there's so many examples of this where just spending time in the vertical, listening to your community, figuring out what their problems are, not as it relates to advertising and growing and all that stuff, but like truly like what keeps them up at night with respect to that, that area like that, I think is where the most interesting insights come from with respect to kind of what you should go build or where you should spend your time.

Yeah, I totally agree. For us, community is the most important. Yeah, it is the most important. So for example, for us, we realized that legal products is only one of the things that founders need. So they need community of other founders. So we launched the community of all of our clients on Slack. So when they buy the product, they become part of the community because the best advice comes not from even lawyers, but from other founders. And we realized that. So we launched that. We have list of partners whom we recommend and we provide all of those things for free. So when as a content creator, I get a perk, like a discount, I pass it on to to my community, my clients. And that way, when you enter my community, although I focus specifically on legal, you get access to other community members. The same thing that I got from Marina. I met incredible people because I, I was part of her content mentorship program. And you kind of help a person to be on their journey, not just selling the services because they don't need— they haven't started the company with a dream to hire a lawyer. They started the company with a dream to freedom, the American dream, you know, make an impact. So it is when I think about what to do next, what product to launch, it's so, so helpful to have the community in mind. That way the product development, it's— I don't have to think so much. People tell me what to do. So I think it's really important and just helpful and it's even easier to go about that. So community is the most important. Megan, do you think community is the most important?

Yeah, I do. I mean, I think like with the asterisk of like deep and engaged community, right? Like again, community can, can be a million different things and it could just be like a headline number and how big and blah, blah, blah. But I think you really want to focus on this like depth piece. Um, but yes, assuming you have that, I think that's, that's the place to start. And quite frankly, it's the hardest thing to do.

Yes. Does Slow Ventures invest only in US-based creators?

So the short answer is yes. Today, um, we, we try and focus on US-based creators. I think if, um, their, their audience and community is US, that just to be technical about it, like if they are outside the US but their community is here and for it to be like an opportunity that for us to look at, their, the companies should be based in the US, um, to just make it easier for for us to say yes.

Yeah, it's the same with venture-backed startups in tech, life sciences, Delaware C-Corp is kind of the way to go. That's what we determined when we built the Startup Launch Package. Sometimes investors make an exception for, you know, superstar company and founder if they're in UK, but it's an exception to the rule. You have to be really hot to, to like pull that off. But yeah, I think in general, in venture-backed world, you have to be based here. Okay, are you still investing based on the model of potential $1 billion+ outcomes from these creators?

The short answer is yes, right? And, and I think like the, the $1 billion number is, is arbitrary. It's actually more of like, it's more directional than that, which is we like to partner with people with huge ambition and who want to build something to the scale of a billion, right? And so it's not that, you know, that's the watermark in which they have to hit and whatnot, but it's, it's more actually about the mindset of like where they want to take the business, what they want to build, what they're shooting for versus again, you meet a lot of creators who are focused on, you know, building their content and media, but have no interest in like building a big thing and managing teams and doing the whole thing. So it's, it's less about like the specific number and more about the mindset.

Yeah. Because the way you build is very different. When I was starting out, I actually did— I don't have to build technology. I can just sell the story. Services. But that's just not what I want. And initially you spend more time and money to invest in something that is able to scale versus just like doing, you know, something unscalable like services. So I agree, it's a different mindset. And sometimes like, why am I trying so hard? Why can't I just enjoy? But yeah, it's definitely the mindset. And I also like what you and I, when we discussed that you're not focusing on small returns. So even if it's like $500K or like a million, like you wouldn't participate in that, in those small revenue-generating events. You are wait— like you're looking for big exit, right? Yeah, you kind of can exclude that because you don't care about, um, those little things. Okay, uh, Miguel, as a creator, what are the pros and cons of going for VC funding versus bootstrapping it yourself? I don't see many creators going for this.

Amazing question.

Thank you.

Amazing, amazing question. Um, so I think bootstrapping is incredibly valid. So it's super, super valid. And what's really interesting actually about a creator versus a seed stage founder is like creators actually have cash flow. Like they have the option to bootstrap, whereas a lot of founders don't have any investible capital until they turn a dollar of profit. And so like quite literally their only option is to do a fundraise. If you're a creator, it just comes down to the amount of investible capital you have and how quickly you want to move. And that's how you think about the decision whether to bootstrap or raise venture, which is, let's say you're a creator making a million bucks a year after you pay your team and expenses. Maybe your take-home is like $200K after taxes. It's like, you know, maybe $120K. That's not that much investible capital and it will take you a number of years to save up to go invest in the thing that you want to do. And so So if you're in this position of like, you know, you're making some money, it's not necessarily enough to like super expedite or super accelerate what you want to go do. Venture may be an interesting option, but like bootstrapping is also great. And like there's a bunch of reasons why it makes sense for, for, for, uh, specific creators and specific businesses. And I think like it's not to be, you know, underdiscussed and I think it's a fabulous option. So it just entirely depends on how quickly you want to move and, and really like, I guess the, the level, level of, of capital you have. Via bootstrapping to do that. And the basic calculus is where I'd leave this is like, if you think raising capital can increase your chances of success in excess of the 10% or whatever it is that you give up, it's a no-brainer, right? Like that feels like the right math. But if not, then you should— you shouldn't pursue it. But I think this is a very, very good question.

Yeah. And I was struggling with that question myself last year. I ended up bootstrapping and not raising because I was able to triple my revenue. And so I was like, okay, I don't need it. And I achieved from the technology development perspective what I wanted last year because I had cash. I just invested it. But this year, thinking about hiring a CTO, and honestly, it would highly depend on like, they need $150K salary, then okay, I need to raise money. So it will depend. I'm still like interviewing folks. And if that person agrees not to have salary, then yeah, then I don't. But another thing that I also always consider like, yeah, you get dilute— diluted, you kind of get a boss, but also if that investor is well connected, that they could help with your distribution. So I think that also not to be overlooked, that beyond— there is help beyond money.

So, uh, although I will say at Slow, we don't take board seats, we're non-directive, we don't tell you what to do, we're very passive in terms of the operations. Where we want to be helpful is like, let's just get you shortcut to the right answer on stuff and like get you unstuck, make introductions. But like we try and stay out of the way.

No, but that's what I mean. Like the, for example, Sam and Marina were at the same stage. Sam was talking about Marina, what he was doing, helping with distribution. If I accept venture money, you would be recommending me to your like portfolio company. So like you can like just drive towards me like a million dollar a year easily. And the quality of your portfolio companies is great. So like, probably you will bring more money than you invested. So that's, that's, that's the thing.

Yeah. I think there's a level too. And we're, we're talking with a creator right now where he has a couple investors, but they're all industry insiders, right? And there's just very basic, like, sophistication stuff that he's not even thinking about. And like, over the, even over the course of a handful of conversations, there's just a level of business savviness. And that's not to like toot our own horn, it's just because we've seen it a lot. And so again, I think there's, there is something about like this leveling up of the business that can also exist when you, when you take on, you know, outside investors and have, you know, people in your corner.

Yeah, I, I totally agree. And especially if you invest in content creators, they probably were not starting this up to become an entrepreneur. They're creative people. So there is probably the level of sophistication in terms of the legal stuff, compliance is just not there. I, I totally agree. And I, Even with tech founders, I see it all the time, making other people's money. So you have to think bigger, like, okay, how do I optimize for a billion outcome? Because that's the, this is what you signed. That's what you agreed. And the last question, just to take the, what StageCreator is slow looking at? Strictly established 100K, a million plus, small but engaged community of 1K plus. Is there any threshold?

So we tend not to anchor on like follower counts because as I mentioned earlier, they're just mattering less and less. But one way to think about it is like, ideally, Ideally you're earning like a million dollars in revenue and there could, there could be variance there and it, you know, we're open to the ways in which you make that, but that's kind of the right strike zone for us. Could be less, could be more. And there is increasingly discorrelation between follower count and that number, which is funny, but awesome.

So a million a year that this is something like that. Yeah.

Something like that.

Awesome. Okay, Megan, that was incredibly, incredibly helpful session. We are so grateful. Bye-bye.

Bye.