I spent 12 years sacrificing my peace (only to realise this)

Dave Ramsey and Ramit Sethi, 2 of the biggest names in money, and they tell you almost the exact opposite of each other about how to live. I know because I followed both of them. Dave first for a decade, then Ramit. And each one taught me something the other one completely missed. But here's what nobody warned me about. You can do everything both of these guys teach and still wake up one day feeling like something's wrong and not being able to name it. And it took a drawing from my 6-year-old son to finally name it for me. And I get that drawing Because it, ugh, it wrecked me. This is Building Your Money Machine, where we help you master your money, eliminate financial stress, and live a life by choice. And I'm your host, Mel Abraham. And today I'll show you what Dave gets right, what Ramit gets right, and the one thing they both leave out. The thing that turned 12 safe, responsible years into the freest years of my life. So let's do this. All right, let's start with what Dave taught me, where I hit the ceiling and all that. So let me take you back to the late 1990s. I know it was a while ago because that's where the whole thing got started. I'm sitting in the, literally the wreckage of my own life. My partners had pushed me out of the firm that I had helped build. I am a single full-time dad. I had no clients, I had no client backlog. I was sitting at $300,000 in debt because I just bought a house. No safety net under me, just a phone that wasn't ringing and a stack of bills that didn't care. And here's the part that still gets me. I'm a CPA, 30 years of training to, to be the money guy. And there's this dirty little secret nobody tells you about in the accounting school. See, they teach you how to count the money, but they never teach you how to keep it. They certainly don't teach you how to build it. And so there I sat, the numbers guy, staring at my own life with no idea how to put it back together. So I needed a mentor. I needed a rope. And I found one in a book called The Total Money Makeover by a man named Dave Ramsey. Now hear me on this because it matters for everything that comes after this. Dave got me out of a well. That is good work. That is important work. And the man has helped millions of people stop the bleeding, cut up their credit cards, and finally sleep through the night. And if you're drowning in debt right now, go read him. I mean that. He literally handed me the rope when I was at the bottom and I climbed it hand over hand. So let me tell you what Dave actually stands for, because you need to understand the gift before you can understand the ceiling. Dave's whole world is built on one idea: money should never create anxiety. Everything he teaches flows from that. Get out of debt. Live below your means. Pay cash. Avoid risk. Behavior beats math. He'd rather you pay off a low-interest loan that a spreadsheet says you should keep because he cares more about how you sleep than about squeezing out another percent. His question underneath all of it is simple: what creates the safest life? And for a good 10, 12 years, I ran that playbook to the letter. And I don't mean I just read the book once and nodded along. I went through his trainings. I went through his programs, the whole system. Because I wanted to understand it all the way down to the studs, not skim the surface and just move on. I wanted to stay out of debt. I wanted to get the money thing right because I was struggling. I wanted to put money away. I built a foundation based on what he taught me under my feet where there had been nothing but a hole before. And frankly, it worked exactly the way it was designed to work. But here's what nobody warned me about. The same playbook was quietly doing something to me in the background because there was a question running in the back of my mind on loop. Every purchase, every decision, every time I wanted something for me or for my son, that question, can I afford it? Can I afford it? Can I afford it? And that question sounds responsible, doesn't it? It sounds like, like the grownup in the room. Doesn't it? But sit with it for a second. When you really look at it, can I afford it? It's a lack question wearing a responsible person suit. It starts from the belief that there isn't enough. It shrinks your whole life down to a subtraction problem. And the answer is always about the number and never about the life. And that's the ceiling I finally ran into. See, Dave's entire system is built on avoidance. To cut, to budget, to restrain. Don't. And that muscle avoidance is the exact right muscle when maybe you're drowning. Okay? It's the thing that saves you. But once you're safe, that same muscle, it keeps you small. And I got really, really good at not doing things. Good at budgeting, good at cutting, good at asking, can I afford it? And talking myself out of the answer. I And I called it all responsibility. I dressed it up in responsibility. What it actually was though, was a life lived below my means and below my life at the same time. See, subtraction will save a drowning man or woman and starve a free one. I was safe, I was secure, and I was quietly, deeply unfulfilled because I had mastered how to keep money and never once learned how to live a rich life with it. And that gap, the one between safe and alive, is exactly where a second book found me a few years later. And it didn't just move the needle, it flipped the whole question. Okay? This is where Ramit comes in because I hit a ceiling with Dave's work because of the mindset. Now, like I said, it's wonderful work and he's transformed tremendous lives and numbers of, of, of lives, but I didn't feel like I was living. And I came across Ramit's book, I Will Teach You to Be Rich. And one line in it hit me like a 2x4 across the forehead. Spend extravagantly on the things you love and cut costs mercilessly on the things you don't. Read that again. Spend extravagantly on the things you love and cut costs mercilessly on the things you don't. That is exact opposite of Can I afford it? See, that's more about what do I value? And let me pour the resources right there on purpose with no apology and no guilt. See, where Dave puts safety first, Ramit put life first. He wasn't asking, can you afford it? He was asking, is this worth it to you? And those are 2 completely different instruments, different questions. One of them is a calculator that tells you what's possible. The other is a compass that tells you where you're actually trying to go. So let me give you Ramit, his fulldo, the same way I gave Dave. See, Ramit takes people who are already safe and secure and teaches them how to enjoy the very thing they built. He automates the boring stuff so you stop white-knuckling every transaction. He teaches you to spend consciously, to invest simply, to negotiate, to stop letting shame run the whole show. If Dave's transformation is chaos to stability, Ramit's is stability to enjoyment. Where Dave's whole system asks what creates the safest life, Ramit's asks a different question entirely. What creates the richest life? That is real. That is valuable. And for a while, it felt like the summit for me. If I'm honest with you about what happened when I read it, I didn't feel like I was learning something new. I felt like somebody finally handed me the words for something I believed my whole life, but never knew how to say. That the money is supposed to serve the life, not the other way around. And that had been my philosophy all along. Ramit just gave me the language to it. And when I made that shift, something changed in how I actually lived. I started moving towards a life that was connected to my values instead of just my fears. There was alignment. The money I spent started going towards the things that gave me real visceral joy on the inside. That's why I have people put joy points in their plan instead of just sitting in an account as proof that I'd been careful. See, for the first time, money felt like it was on my side. My side. So real quick before I keep going on here, because I think the exact question turns on something which is What number am I trying to get at? What is the number that's gonna give me the life that I want? We call it the Freedom Number. And I have a free Freedom Number calculator that you can get access to. We'll hook it up down here. Go to melabraham.com/number and grab it. It'll give you a ballpark, it'll give you a trajectory, and now you can build towards something that will give you the freedom that I was searching for. Okay, back to it, because this is where in Ramit's world, he also— Ran outta road for me. Because here's the trap. I eventually walked into his system in a way where it was really good and it changed a lot of things for me. And it still runs on a single engine. That's the issue. See, Ramit's system, the engine is still you. Meaning that if you're not efforting, you're not earning. If you're not efforting, you're not building. You earn income, you automate it, you spend it intentionally on what you love, you invest what's left, You enjoy your life. Beautiful system and it works. But ask it one question and watch the whole thing go quiet. And that question is this: what happens when you stop feeding it? Because the engine in the middle, the one powering all of it, is your career. It's your salary. It's your practice. It's your two hands. It's your effort. It's your calendar. See, the portfolio only grows because you keep shoveling coal into the furnace. Stop shoveling and the fire goes out. And I was still on the treadmill. I'd upgraded the treadmill for sure. Nicer scenery, better shoes, spending that finally felt aligned, but it was still a treadmill nonetheless. And it still only moved as long as I kept running on it. And I wanna tell you about the day I actually saw it because it wasn't a spreadsheet that showed it to me. It was my 6-year-old son. He came running into me one day and I was a single full-time dad. At 6 years old, he comes running in and he says, Daddy, Daddy, I drew a picture of you at school today. And I kneel down thinking I'm gonna see this picture of us playing ball, having fun, and all the things. And he hands me this picture, and the only thing in it, blue stick figure, is me standing in front of 2 computer screens with a phone in each ear and another one on the desk ringing. At the hands of a 6-year-old, he put a mirror into my soul with a picture that he wasn't even in. It didn't even include him. He didn't draw himself anywhere. And that was just it. That was a mirror to my soul. That's how my son saw me. Not as his dad, but as a man at a desk with a phone in each ear. No room in the frame for him. And it broke something open in me. Here I was, a single full-time dad, trying to take care of the greatest gift that was given to me, to be a father. Telling myself that all of this grinding was for him. That the discipline, the earning, the hustle were how I was going to take care of him. And yet he had just shown me in blue felt-tip pen what I was actually giving him was my absence and not my presence. I was failing him. I was calling it providing. And that was the day I understood the thing that Dave couldn't teach me and Ramit couldn't quite reach. I had to find a way to separate my earnings from the efforts it took to earn them, not to get richer, but to get freer. Because the real currency I was after was not money. It was time. Time with my son while he was still young, while he still wanted to draw pictures of me. Money was only ever a mechanism, the thing that I was supposed to, to use to buy me the choices, and I let the mechanism become the whole point. Jeremy didn't care about my profits. He cared about my presence. And once I saw that, I couldn't unsee it, which meant I had to go somewhere Neither Dave nor Ramit were pointing. That obsession where I went past both of them. So here's where the 3 of us finally land. And I say this with total respect for both of these men because I stood on both of their shoulders to get here. Dave Ramsey says protect your money. Ramit says use your money. And me, after all of it, I say build the machine that creates your money so your life stops hanging on whether or not you show up. That's not a small upgrade on either of them. That's a totally different category. Dave was after the safest life. Ramit was after the richest life. And the question running under my whole life that one is nobody in the room was answering was, how do I build the freest life? How do I separate my life from my labor? That's the difference between an earnings machine, which they both were helping you build, and a money machine. See, an earnings machine is you. It's trading effort for dollars. It's the stuff, your job, your career, your profession, your business, it produces beautifully right up until you stop. The money machine though, that's the system that you build off of the earnings machine that produces income and produces wealth and money whether you show up or not. One is cash flow that depends on you. The other is ownership that outlives your effort. And almost nobody's teaching the second game. Listen, and this isn't just my story. I remember sitting across from a guy not too long ago. He was 44 years old, married with 2 kids. He and his wife were pulling in about $210,000 a year, beautiful home, vacations every year, college funds were being funded, money in the 401. By every traditional measure, they made it. And so I asked him one question, what happens if you don't go to work on Monday? And he smiled at me and thought I was joking. And I asked it again, slower. What happens if you don't go to work on Monday? And he leaned back and after a long pause, he said, well, eventually everything stops. The paycheck stops, the bonus stops, but the mortgage doesn't stop. The taxes don't stop. The life keeps mailing its bills whether the money's coming in or not. He'd spent 20 years building an incredible earnings machine and almost nothing on the other side of the page where the money machine is. And when I showed him that, he looked at me and said, I never realized there were supposed to be 2 machines. That right there is the moment I see over and over in people who did everything right. And because they did, they followed a plan. They just followed a plan that was only ever built to get them out of the hole, not up the mountain. And that word, mountain, is exactly how I finally learned to explain this whole thing. See, for a long time, I thought those 12 years meant I'd been doing it wrong. I hadn't. I was doing exactly what each season of my life required. Dave got me out of the well when I was drowning. Ramit taught me to want a life that was actually worth funding. And both of those are necessary. Neither one of them was the summit though. And a while back, my own book publisher asked me to explain the difference between Dave Ramsey and, and me. And I told her this: Dave's wonderful. Dave helps you dig your way out of a hole. But my job was never to help you dig out of a hole. My job is to help you build your mountain. And that's the whole shift right there. Getting out of debt is survival. Spending on the things you love is enjoyment. But building a machine that funds your life whether you show up or not, that, that's freedom. And freedom is the only one of the 3 that ever gives you back your peace. Because peace is exactly what those 12 years cost me. It was never the money. I had the money. What it cost me was peace because I was carrying the entire weight of my life on my own 2 shoulders and I was calling it responsibility. And there was a little boy drawing pictures of an empty chair while I did it. So here's what I know now that I give almost anything to have known back in the wreckage in the late '90s. When you finally have the peace, you have the machine. You get to live a life That's fully expressed. A life in alignment with what you value, what you actually matters to you. A life that is a choice each and every day. That's the thing Dave's rules could never hand me and Ramit's systems could never quite reach. A life that's yours by choice, running on a machine that doesn't need you chained to it to keep the lights on. Where the currency is not your money, but your time. And you finally get to spend it on the people and the things and the experiences who would you want to spend it with. That's the mountain. And it was worth every single year of the climb. So if this hits something in you, do me a favor, subscribe, send this to one person who you know is building a beautiful life, but they're exhausted because it's all on their shoulders. They need to hear this one. Because earning more doesn't make you free. The money machine does. All right. I hope that this helps. And if you haven't done so already, do me a favor. Hit that subscribe button. Give me a thumbs up. And the algorithm likes it, but it'll also warm my heart too. All right. I'd love to hear from you and have a conversation with you. So drop me a comment. All right. Until I get a chance to see you in the next one or on your path to financial freedom, as I always say, always, always strive to live a life that I would live. See you in the next one. Cheers for now. And that's it for this episode of Building Your Money Machine, where we help you learn how to master your money, eliminate financial stress, and live a life of choice. If you found this valuable or helpful to you, here's what I'd love for you to do. If you'd do me a favor, go to Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening to this podcast and rate and review the show. It helps us tremendously. to keep us at the top of the list so we can continue to get this information and this message out to people, because I truly believe that financial freedom's your birthright, and I want to help each and every one of you claim it. Thanks so much.