014. How Understanding Your Enneagram Type Makes Your Marketing Better

Welcome. I am marketing expert and business coach Melissa Kellogg Lueck. And this is the Doing Business Like a Woman podcast, where we are exploring and teaching you how women are reinventing the way business is done and money is made to help you create greater impact and financial freedom one business at a time. So thank you so much for being here, Sarah. I am so excited to get to talk to you. Every time I get to talk to you, it is such a pleasure. So real quickly, Sarah and I met a few years ago at an Amy Porterfield Entrepreneur Experience event right live in San Diego. And we sat at the same table and our table just really connected as women growing our businesses. And so Sarah and I have kept in touch and I've just loved watching her journey. You have to make sure and listen to her podcast and follow her on Instagram because her branding and her expertise is just magnificent. So we have so much to learn from her and so much to talk about today. So I'm just going to dive in and ask you, Sarah, to just say hello and introduce yourself.

Well, hello. Yes, I am Sarah Lynn. Just real quick on the podcast, I'll tell your listeners. Melissa was my last guest for the year, episode 31. So we kind of wrapped up that. And that was such a good conversation. So, yeah, absolutely. Check that out. And yeah, I'm Sarah. I actually have done a couple of, I don't know, is it pivoting or evolutions? And the last year have really gotten into the enneagram and really kind of, kind of similar to your own story and kind of the work you do. Melissa, is. It's. It was evident to me that when I was teaching people about social media that, that there was a strategy piece that that needed to be implemented. And like, that's absolutely important. But there was a piece missing. Like, why couldn't somebody hit, publish or record themselves or why would you spend so much time posting something and then take it down? Because somebody kind of said something kind of negative and it, it. So it's like, okay, there's, there's more to this than just the strategy. And I have really into. I sound. So hopefully this doesn't sound like pretentious, but like, like psychology and like, like neuroscience. Love it. Like all those books. And I, I don't know, I just find it like really fascinating how humans think. Like we have this, this thing that nobody else, like no other species has it so developed and, and it's just interesting like how it affects so many things and how we carry around things and it comes out. So anyway, I stumbled upon the Enneagram personally, probably, gosh, three or four years ago now and just kind of, you know, dabbled in it here and there. Kind of got obsessed personally. And then I don't know what happened. I just was like, why don't I use this as kind of my container to, to pair with the strategy part? And so, you know, it takes. Not that, not that I'm saying the Enneagram is like based in neuroscience, but it does take that like personality kind of how different human beings show up and the things we carry around and the things that we focus on and shows different ways that we see the world and how I could kind of overlap that with the work that I was doing around messaging and that type of thing. So I think that's kind of long winded, Melissa, but did that answer your question?

Yeah, I think that's a great introduction to your work. Let's take it back and to your story, like, tell us about you as a person and as the wonderful Sarah that I know.

Well, it's so interesting. Again, this will maybe tie back to the Enneagram and just personality and understanding ourselves. Out of college, I got hired for. I got to go out to Denver. So I was on your neck of the woods for a little while and I was working for a construction material company for five years, which is just now hilarious looking back at it because I wore like steel toe boots and I was supposed to do like these like air, air emission like analysis spreadsheets which the more that I know myself is just like again, hilar. But I also got to do a lot of trainings and presentations and oh my gosh, so many presentations. And I thought that I was going to throw up so many times, but that was so great. So I took that with me. I was there for five years. I had my son and had some life changes. And then I knew that I didn't want to do environmental compliance. I didn't want to get better at that, but I just didn't know what I wanted to do. And I don't know if your listeners can relate to this or not, but some of them probably can. But it's like I have been on this like hunt. It's like so much deeper than a search, but like a hunt for my purpose. And I, during that time that I was working at, for the construction material company, I was, I probably started, I don't know, three or four LLCs. Like I was going to be a health coach, which I did get my certification in health coaching. I had like A clean um, like a clean cleaning company. Like an eco friendly cleaning company that was going to start. So there's all these things. I was going to start a juice business along the way and it's just like no, no, that's. I don't, I don't know. That's not. It just didn't work out. And so I ended up getting into a sales role which again I thought I never wanted to be in sales. I thought it was slimy. I know that your audience can probably relate to that a little bit feeling that way. And I ended up, you know, enjoying it and kind of finding a way that worked for, for me to do it. And I ended up being there for five years. So throughout those two experiences I picked up some really great presentation and speaking skills and then some skit. Some sales, ultimately relationship building, a little bit of that psychology skills along the way. And then something in between those two roles I had reconnected with or I had connected with a friend who was working for this amazing. He was actually working for corporate Starbucks and he had this amazing career. Obviously like the benefits were awesome and. But he wanted to start a gym and he wanted to get his personal training certification and I had met him at that point in his life and he ended up making the jump. And then fast forward five years later when I was selling magazine ads, he had built three gyms, opening a fourth, had done all these collaborations and I just felt like I was standing still, like I was just circling this cul de sac, like I don't know what I want to do, I don't know what my purpose is. And so I just kept circling and I had had a call with him one day and he was talking about like a collaboration he was doing and I obviously had seen, kept in touch with him and on social media and we had stayed in touch and I just, it wasn't like a catalyst where it was like oh, that day I quit my job. But I do remember that being a moment where I started to be like, oh my gosh, I'm standing still. And shortly after that few months later I did end up leaving and making my own jump from um, to focus on the parts of that role that I did enjoy, which was social media marketing. And then here I am now kind of incorporating the enneagram. And I still don't know that. My purpose I think is just. I'm learning more. It's just kind of like in my. How like my day to day, like it's not like a burning bush that I just have discovered. And it's like, oh, so you're for work? And it's like this transformation moment, but it's more like an archeologist kind of like, uncovering. And then I kind of get to choose if I feel like, am I living in purpose today? And it might be like saying hello or being nice to somebody at the barista, but that's. Yeah, that's kind of the how I ended up here. Yeah.

And I love that. That point about your purpose that, you know, I think. And I was the same way, like, growing up, I felt like, you know, it was just going to come down from heaven as this light. It would just, like, be bestowed upon me like I was being knighted by the queen, you know.

Yes.

But that's not really how it comes to us. Like, it is just in these little bits and pieces where it's just like the puzzle piece fits in. You're like, oh, yes, this makes sense.

Yeah.

But then that comes from inside of us. Like, it's not. I think a lot of times we try to pull our purpose from somewhere external, but really we get to decide what it is. And I love what you said. Like, every day I get to decide, like, am I living my purpose today?

Yeah. It can be so stressful. Like, if you feel like it is, it's like a lost sock. You're like, where's that my purpose? I'm going to pull apart my room trying to find this thing or your keys or something. And it can be so frustrating and kind of feel hopeless, or something's wrong with you. And I have. I have, personally, that's been one of my biggest struggles in life and in my career is just this whole, like, anxiety around, oh, my God, I'm not going to find it, I'm going to miss it, and I'm not going to find it.

Yeah. Well, that whole thought that you had at that period of your life where, like, I'm standing still, you know, or I'm stuck, or I'm, you know, and then you see these other people doing things, and you're like, oh, no, I'm missing out. You know, get the FOMO going and. Oh, yeah, it totally. I feel that.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I would love to kind of dive into the Enneagram and, you know, talking about your story and your history, how has it helped you now, knowing the Enneagram and knowing yourself through that lens? How does that help you to understand your history and your journey?

Yeah. Oh, such a good question. You know, for me, specifically, I most identify as an enneagram type 7. And when I first learned that I was a type 7, I actually didn't want to be a type 7. And that's typically how you know what type you are, because, you know, the shadow side is, you know, scattered. And, yeah, FOMO is. Is a very. We all have it, right? But for Sevens, their core driver in life is this need to feel satisfied and fulfilled. And so, like, that. That search for purpose kind of comes into that, and that the grass is always greener. And so I don't know that. It's like, I read about it and I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm doing all of this. But again, it was kind of like an onion peeling back. And you're like, wow. Like, maybe this is why I've never. I don't want to say I've never been happy, but I'm always, like, on the search for, like, happiness, and, like, oh, this will make me happy, and this will make me happy. And so one of the biggest things that I have gotten from the Enneagram and just kind of looking. Looking within and then also understanding my impact on others is being okay with stillness and not needing constant adventure and stimulation and excitement. And that's very hard for me, though, just to be like, oh, yeah, I'll just. I'll just sit here on a Friday night. Like, that's fine. I mean, as we get older that. That. And especially I will say after, you know, 2020, that that became, like, a very normal thing. And. And that's when some of that started to happen. But it's. It's been. It's personally helped me understand or not even understand. But see, it's. I like to think of it as like a mirror. And we have these things, no matter what, both our strengths and our shadows. And what the Enneagram does is just kind of hold up a mirror to it. And so I started to see. Oh, my gosh. Like, this is why. Probably is a big reason why some of my past relationships haven't worked out, because I do the same thing. I do, like, the runaway bride thing for me personally. But we all have our own thing. We all have our own patterns and work and relationships in our life triggers. And so it can kind of shine light on those. So then you can be more intentional. Because I think the biggest benefit of the Enneagram for anybody is just. It's a way to help you turn off default mode and turn on intentionality. So even if you want to choose that same reaction, that same response, or have that same feeling you're doing it with intention and it's not just, you know, autopilot. Like, you leave work and you get home in your driveway and you're like, how did I get here? That's how so many of our, our reactions and behaviors can. Can be because we just don't know that they're there. Right. You can't fix or you can't change what you. What you don't know. So it's just been really helpful for me personally. And then I just was. I was like, oh my gosh. Other people need to know about this. People need to know how transformative it can be.

Yeah, I love that piece of awareness because that's just half the battle, right? Of just being aware of what's happening. Because that's where we get the. We then have the power to change something, right. Once we have awareness that it's happening. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. And, you know, one little thing is, for me is just understanding, like how I like a type of environment that is going to allow me to thrive. And in all of my former roles, I was putting myself in an actual environment that despite how amazing the work was going to be, I was probably never going to be living my best life because I need variety and open spaces. Whereas somebody else who maybe was working from home or worked from a coffee shop, and it's like, oh my gosh, coffee shops drive me insane. They're so loud, I can't concentrate. But for me, I'm like, oh, living my best life. Right. And so just even understanding, like little things like that about yourself, you can then kind of advocate for yourself and say, you know, this, this is really important to me. Like, I really need this to, to. And this works in your all kinds of relationships too. I'm not just like, oh, I'm so. They frustrate me. It's like this frustrates me and I'm going to be able to articulate it and communicate it to you. So hopefully we can stop having the same argument time.

Yeah, I love that. So I want to go back to something you said earlier, that you're a type 7, but you didn't want to be. So is that common where we kind of argue with the typing or how, you know, I guess that question and then you know, how. What is the best way to find out what type you are? And is it kind of subjective or is it very cut and dry? Tell me more about that.

Yeah, it's. It's a process. It can be a process for some people. They know right away and for others, it's like, oh, I could be this or I could be that. And the thing that makes the Enneagram a little bit unique, I think, is, is that it does really shine very brightly, your shadow side. And that's not always. That's kind of it. It's like, oh, yikes, cringy. Don't want to be scattered. Or for another type, it's like, oh, I don't want to be controlling or I don't want to be needy. Right. And so it is sometimes when you, when you read the good things, you're like, oh, yeah, I want to be the type 3 achiever or I want to be. Type 8 is like really confident and decisive. And then all of them, though, have that. The same energy that gives you those amazing superpowers also powers the shadow side, the flip side to that, which isn't bad. It has served a purpose, it's protected you, it's done, you know something, it's. You've benefited from it in some way. But those are, those are hard to see. So yes, sometimes it is like, I don't want to admit that. And so it might take a while. The best way to find your type is honestly just to read about them. And then you can kind of start to narrow them down and then focus on the ones that feel most relevant to you. There are quizzes out there that you can take. It can be so complex that sometimes a quiz won't capture everything. And 20 questions, you know, and then you get your results back and you're like, oh, I must be this because it was my top result, when in reality it's just a clue. So just be, be careful with that because it is an identify a self identification process, unlike the Myers Briggs or a strength finder type of thing where you're like, I'll just take a quiz real quick. And then it gives you those results, which is. We want that sometimes. But the Enneagram typing process is a really beautiful part of the process because you're asking yourself questions maybe you've never asked yourself before and thinking about things and reflecting on things that maybe you've never questioned, you know. And so that's a really important part of all of this.

That's so cool. I didn't realize that. I guess I'm, I'm more of the give me the quiz, I want the number. Yeah. Oh, but, but yeah, so I guess I took a quiz and never, you know, I just assumed that that was it. And then, then I've heard there's a lot of different. You know, everyone has. Not everyone, but there's a lot of different quizzes out there.

There are, yeah, lots of different quizzes. Some of them are, you know, 20 questions. The one I use in my typing sessions is 144 questions. So you can get some information on that. But, you know, still, you want to. You want to look at those. And then it's like, what really does drive my behavior? Because that. That's kind of another thing about the Enneagram is that we're not just looking at your behavior. It's the motive behind the behavior. So, for example, when somebody is offering to help load the dishwasher, there's one type that the helper, potentially who is really focused on being loved and wanted and wants to be appreciated, will be probably very attentive to what's going on and be always willing and open to help. So they're like, oh, yeah, let me help load. Let me. Let me take some load off you, and I'll help load the dishwasher. Whereas a type one, and I'm being very stereotypical, but just to kind of show. Whereas the type one might be doing the exact same thing, loading the dishwasher, but it's because they're like, oh, my God, I'm gonna start twitching because they're gonna load the dishwasher wrong. And there's a right way to do it. And I wanna. I wanna be the one to make sure it gets done right. And so it's just really interesting that when you can understand why you do what you do or why somebody important in your life does what they do, you can come at that with so much more compassion and empathy. Because, for example, the type 1 feels like they have to be perfect. Like, their childhood message was that it's not okay to make mistakes. And so when you feel like somebody like that is criticizing you and being overly critical and micromanaging, that's really annoying. Like, that's very frustrating. I don't want to experience that. But if I know that my significant other or my. My teammate or friend or whatever has some of that energy, I can be like, oh, my gosh, imagine if they're saying this to me. Like, imagine how they're talking to themselves and like, oh, gosh, I hate that for them. And so you don't. You. You know, you can, like, lessen the conflict potentially and be more understanding and maybe more curious and. And have healthier, happier relationships.

Wow. That's amazing. I love it. So how do you coach your clients on using this in their Business as entrepreneurs. Tell me more about that.

Yeah, so again, kind of understanding why you do what you do. And a lot of times it's in this context, it's kind of why you don't do, why you don't do. Is it because you feel like there's a perfect way to do it and it's just not perfect yet, but you're going to put it out there, but it is when it's ready, it's not ready yet. Or is it like, oh, I just want to help, I just want to help. I don't want to sell anything. So all you do is sell or help, help, help value content, free workshops. And then you never, you know, sell anything. And we can all do those things. It's obviously not type specific problems, but there is tendencies because of our core motive. And then each type also has a core fear. And so for the type 3 not to pick on you because we all have this type 3, their core fear in life is to, is afraid of failing. And so in a marketing or business type of setting, that could hold you back from trying something new, from putting out a new offer, not wanting to do anything that you know, like I'm just not going to be perfect at this or I'm not going to be great at this, I'm not going to win, so I don't even want to do it. And then you kind of miss out on, on those opportunities or, or testing your idea. And so like there's, there's specific fears that each type has to, that will look at more so than the motives. But we'll also look at the motives because another thing that happens, and I don't know if you've noticed this Melissa, and your work too is that sometimes we get caught up in the things we feel like we should do. Like, oh, I should want to be on video or I should want to write an email, I should want to offer coaching or I should want to offer a group. And it's like, I don't know that feels those, feels like a should and not like a true goal. And it's like, well, let's look at like what's most important to you. And the Enneagram offers a lot of clues to that. And so you already know those things anyway. It can just be validating and reassuring. You're not crazy. Other people feel this way. If that doesn't feel good, then don't do it. Do it your own way.

Yeah. So.

So let's see.

How do you as an entrepreneur like as far, I guess What I'm thinking of is like, how would I, I mean, other than giving everybody that I talk to tests. Do you kind of like, are you always like thinking in the back of your mind like, oh, you know, this person is displaying like a type 3 or a type 7 or. And then you are, you know, kind of changing your way of talking to them based on that. Tell me like how that, how you're thinking about this as you're moving about in your business.

Yes, so I do, I do type all of my clients, even if we're just working on marketing specific things. And I'll give you an example. So I'm working with this, this lawyer and she is a type 8. And they want to be, they don't want to beat around the bush. They want, they appreciate directness and honesty and they want to go fast and they want to focus on the future. And so knowing that I'm not going to write her paragraph emails, I'm going to bullet point them for her. I'm not going to give her all the details that she doesn't want it. And I'm also not going to say, I'm not going to worry about being super soft if like, I don't think it's a good idea or I'm like, I don't love that because I know, like, she can handle it and she, she wants that. Whereas somebody else might want those details. Like, they may want the paragraphs of like, yeah, please tell me everything about how this coaching program works. Or like, please, I want the video from our zoom call because I'm going to rewatch it and I want your paragraph. No, I'm going to take paragraph notes. And then some people that there's also different orientations to time. And this has been one of the biggest eye openers for me in the beginning. And I'll give you an example if that's okay. I. So there's Melissa as a three. You and I are in the same category. Three sevens and eights are in this grouping on the enneagram called the assertive stance. And one of the characteristics, qualities of that stance is how you view time. And we tend to be very future focused. So we want to go far, we want to go fast. We're thinking, what's next? And then there's other types that are more present orientation. So obviously like that is the goal for all of us to be living in the present more. But the problem sometimes with those types of is that they can only see the mountain in front of them. They forget how far they come and all they've done to get there. And then they also have difficulty seeing it's going to be okay on the other side. And then there are three types that live in the past more so very nostalgic. And they're going to think, well, how did this go last time? What. What did I learn? What do I want to avoid? And they may tend to be a little bit slower processing. And so before I started doing this work and really incorporating the Enneagram, looking back on it, I was thinking, okay, there was this client that I was working with, and I was like, let's just do it. Just get it out. Let's just move forward. I don't understand why this is taking so long. Like, what do you have to think about? Like, we have talked about this for four sessions now. Like, you are ready. Let's do this. Okay. And I have to tell you, this is a real life story. Um, this was probably a year and a half ago, and he literally just sent me a text today that said he is sharing the thing that he wanted to share a year and a half ago, finally. And there's reasons behind that. Right. Um, but that. That will. There's no world exists that. That will. I will. I will put it out there. It will be sloppy. It might fail because I didn't take the time. But, like, that will never be me. And I just feel like before I was aware of this, I was like, everybody, just put it out. Just do it. Right. And that has a lot of benefits, but there's also benefits to slowing down and reflecting and making sure that it's done right and making sure that you've learned. And if somebody is not ready, it does no good to push them and force them. And so obviously, like, this is all common sense. Right. But it's just. It's. I'm very aware of how I am, and then I'm very aware of how other people maybe seeing the world that's completely different from me. And so it's like, well, I'm not going to be as like, let's go, let's do this. You got this. Like I would with somebody who's in the assertive stance.

Yeah.

With who's in the other. Some of the others. So that's been helpful too, just from a coaching kind of mentorship positioning too.

Yeah. Yeah. And so I would be curious to know how you help people to not. Or clients to not use their Enneagram against themselves.

Yeah. Oh, so good. Yeah. Because what can happen is. Well, I'm just I'm just brutally honest.

Sorry.

Can't help it. I don't like what I say, or I'm introverted, or, you know, for a seven, we could say, oh, I'm just scattered. I just don't like the details. I'll just never be organized. And you, I mean, yeah, you could do that, but it's not helpful. And the intention of the Enneagram specifically isn't to give you a set of four letters, like some of the other assessments, or a list of five strengths. It's to show you where you're starting. And the intention isn't that you'll stay there. It's just, hey, this is where you're at right now. And then based on your type, it gives you some guidance of where to go from there. It gives you a map that you can kind of unfold as you go along. But there's no, no expectation that. That you're just going to stay right there. And just once you are aware of it, then you're making a choice, right? Until you're aware of it. If you're. Before you're aware of it, you're, you know, again, default mode, unconscious. You're not doing it intentional. But once you become aware that you're not good at details or you're just not good with your books, your money, it's like, well, then you're choosing not to be at that point. And so you can know that I'm. This isn't a strength right now. It's not. It doesn't come natural. But that doesn't mean I can't do it. And interestingly, not to get too complicated or too nerdy and just let me know if it's too much, but the Enneagram connects each type of. To two other types. You have an arrow that they call your stress arrow, where you go to after you've exhausted all of your coping mechanisms and defense mechanisms of your specific type, you'll make a lateral move and take on the same kind of unhealthy coping mechanisms and defense mechanisms of your arrow type. For a three, that's actually a nine. And then there we also have a growth arrow. When we're really feeling secure, we'll take on the healthiest qualities of that number. And so what that does. I have no idea how all of this work. I mean, I do. I guess I've read about the history and how it works, but it's just mind blowing that the exact numbers that you're connected to are the pieces that are really going to make you make you more. I don't want to say compensate, because there's nothing wrong with anybody. There's. We don't need fixing, but it's going to just enhance some of those pieces that maybe aren't natural for you when you can tap in to those. To those qualities of your arrow numbers. So, for example, my arrow number, one of them is a five. And fives are totally okay with being alone. They're totally okay in silence. And as a seven, that's the exact opposite of my natural. My natural tendencies. And so by moving in that direction and, like, becoming more grounded and being okay with the quiet and being by myself, I'm really growing, and I'm. I'm learning. I'm. I'm able to slow down. Right. Versus somebody else who's already really slow, who's already, you know, really good at veggie now. And they might need a little boost of energy and motivation, and you have access to those, too. So I guess to answer your question is it's less about, oh, this is your box that you should stay in, and more of like, hey, this is where you're starting from, Just so you know.

Yeah, I love that distinction. And the distinction around this is, you know, you get to choose whether you want to enhance these traits or just have that awareness and intentionally move in a different direction. That, yeah, you're not stuck in that box, but that's where you get to, you know, that's your starting point. So, so talk to me about. So obviously, because I come from a marketing background, so that, you know, that that gets my marketing brain going. And how you use this in marketing and communications, does it become. Make it very confusing because you're like, oh, am I going to talk to a 1 or a 5 or a 7 or. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think, yes. I mean, I am constantly now seeing the world through the Enneagram. But something really cool about the Enneagram, I've mentioned, like, different groupings, and I think about those more than types specific. Not that I don't think about type specific, but I think how the type specific influences my marketing is I'm constantly like, I'll write something. And I'm like, well, that's not true for everybody, I guess. I'm like, well, so I'm constantly like, is that what I would have considered, like, oh, blanket statement? I'm like, well, is it? So I just maybe tweak the way I kind of write those things. But I also. There is a grouping on the Enneagram that Has to do with how you handle conflict. And I use this grouping a lot in teaching, like, how it can influence our marketing. Because there's three types that are very emotionally reactive. And so, like, they want to vent about a problem, and they want other people. People to feel as emotionally upset as they do. There's three other types that are in the positive outlook, where they're, like, going to put a positive spin, reframe it, silver lining. And then there's three that are very much like, show me the data. Don't give me the drama. I need the numbers. Your type, 3, 1, 3, and 5 are actually in that type. And so how I think about that is like, on a sales page or when you're sharing at the end of a webinar or a live video about your program to make sure that you have all three of those in your messaging. So you want to get people emotionally excited or, you know, emotional about something. But then also, for the people who. Facts and data are really important testimonial, you know, I mean, you. This is your wheelhouse, you know? And then also it's like, well, we don't just want to just talk about the problem. It's like, we also got to shine a light on hope and cast a vision of possibilities. And so that's where that positive outlook kind of comes in. And so I think of it in that way, too. Yeah. So. And there's other groups. There's another one that it's like, how you make decisions from your heart, your head or your gut, and kind of. Kind of similar things. So it's like, I don't. I'm not overwhelmed by nine. Usually I'm. I'm thinking, like, how can I make sure that I'm. I'm touching on all of these? Or I'm speaking to, like, these three things.

Yeah. Yeah. I love that, because that really gives you that direction. Right. So you can be thinking about each of those major things and then speaking to them and what they need to hear in order to make the decision.

Yes.

So tell me about some of the results you've seen with your clients and even with yourself in doing this work with the Enneagram.

Yeah. I think that one of the biggest things is that it just. It's like a permission slip. It's like, oh, my God, I feel so much relief that a. I'm not crazy. I'm not the only one who does this. And I don't. I kind of mentioned this earlier. Like, it's like, I don't. I don't Actually don't want to do this. Like, I don't want to have a coaching business or I don't want to. I don't want to have a Facebook group because I don't. I don't like groups. And then it's like, well, don't do the groups then. And it's not. And you don't need a personality assessment to give you that permission. But sometimes just by being like, oh my gosh, okay, this is why this is a thing. Because I don't enjoy it or I don't enjoy getting really deep, it is difficult for me to have a really deep one on one connection. So, like, maybe don't do one on one coaching. Right. And not to say that again, you can't. You're stuck in that box. But it's just being like, okay, what am I actually, like, what am I good at? Because even though we've talked a lot about kind of the shadow side and the cringy things, I think especially for women, we don't embrace our strengths as much as we could and claim those. It's like, oh, I do this. So when you kind of have it on paper and when you're like, this is a thing, like your personality, like, this is a very common thing trait for you. And like, I see this showing up in these specific ways with how you're doing. Like, I would go all in on that or I would do more of that. And you know, for. I'm trying to think, like for somebody who does have. I tracked a lot of type other type 7. So we got it. We got a balance though, because we can get crazy on our calls. It's like, wow, I. I don't have to be buttoned up. I can be. I can. I don't have. My feed doesn't have to be perfect. It can be loud and it can be different. And it's like, you're still gonna. Still gonna be okay. You can be. It's like, wow, you're really. You have this amazing energy. You have this like magnetic. You're charming. Like, why don't you do more video? Like, why do you feel like you have to hide behind a blog or like you're writing and so just kind of shining light on both. Like, maybe where you're going to get in your own way. And then also shining light on, wow, you're amazing at this. Like, this happens to be a common thing for this type. But here's how I see it in you specifically. And so it's kind of both the strengths claiming Those and then also identifying and figuring out a way to navigate around the roadblocks.

Yeah, I think that's so powerful, especially with those of us that are our business. Right. And we are the face of our business. To have a coach like you to really bring out and validate all of those strengths and then to help you market and brand yourself using that. Because I think we get caught up so heavily in the shoulds of, well, I should be doing this or I should be doing that. But if that's not really where your strength is and where your energy comes out, then it's not going to be as effective as it is for this guru that's telling you to do it. So I love that work. So you can really help people, really create that brand that's in that marketing that's really going to make them shine and come through in a whole new way. I think that's amazing. That's such great work.

Yeah, exactly. And it's like. And then on the flip side of that, if you're really into, like, data and analyzing things like that for somebody can feel like, gosh, I'm so boring, I should want to do video, or I should be, like, more charismatic and you can develop those skills. But then it's like, maybe you're talking about the data. Maybe you're making some really meaningful connections and sharing some insight that people haven't thought about before. So, like, lean into your ability to analyze things, because that is something I am not strong at. And not saying that I couldn't be if I didn't want to be, but it's like, wow, this is beautiful. Like, you're doing this. How can you share this with others and help people in this way with something you're really good at? So, yeah, it is just like, again, yeah, exactly what you said. We feel, we see all these people and it's like, oh, I should be doing this. And it's like, no, you don't have to. Like, what feels good to you? How do you want to set up your day? How do you want your life to look like? Not just, you know, how do you want to show up on social media? And all of those things can kind of play into that. Your personality absolutely plays into that.

Yeah. That's awesome. So tell me about your plans for the new year. What's coming up for you?

Well, I, I again, talking about our strengths. I feel like I really thrive in a group. I just feel like my energy is, is a little different. And so I'm excited. I'm working on a group program right now for February. And then we were talking a little bit before this. I want to be more active about speaking, public speaking and workshops and training and that sort of thing. And getting, yeah, just getting to meet new people and sharing it in different ways with different groups. So looking for more ways to do that in the next year. And then, yeah, it's even hard. Even though I know all of this, there's still things where I'm like, oh, I should be doing this, I should be doing this. So I have my own work to do on those things.

So what are all the ways that we can work with you?

Well, a great place to start is if somebody is like, what the heck is the Enneagram? Or I've heard of it. I have no idea what my type is. I actually have a free typing guidebook that is over on my website. I can get you the link to that and that's a great place to start. I'm really proud of that. I just revised it and I think it's really helpful and helping you narrow down your type and understand what those strengths and shadows might be. And then I do know your number sessions which are really fun where we dive more into what is my type. But then, okay, how do I actually use it? Like, what am I doing with this type 3? And then from there there's different opportunities to right now work one on one and accept, explore ways to put it to use. Because it's one thing to like follow all the type 3 memes or the type 7 memes or whatever, read all those articles, laugh at them, share them with your friends. But then there is so many amazing things that you can do with that awareness, with that knowledge about yourself. And so we look at how to actually apply it.

I love that. And then we'll be watching for your group. We can join your group in February. That'd be fun. Okay, and so what are the best.

Places to keep up with you in.

Terms of where can we find you online?

Well, I love. I love Enneagram or Enneagram Instagram stories. This is so fun. And then so I'm@enneagram MBA. And then if you're on LinkedIn, I'm super into LinkedIn right now, so connect with me over there. And then as we mentioned earlier, I do have the Enneagram MBA podcast where I interview different business owners who have. Who are somewhat familiar with their type. And we kind of talk about what is life like as that type to get some understanding of ourselves or just an understanding of how others see the world. And that's been a lot of fun as well.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I always love getting to chat with you, so thank you for being here.

Oh, thank you for having me. That was a lot of fun.

You're so welcome. If you like this podcast and want to take this work deeper, I invite you to coach with me one on one. It all starts with a conversation. Let's get on a call together and I'd love to learn more about you and your business, and together we can identify what is standing in the way of creating the business, business and life you envision. And then we'll create a plan to get you there. So visit my website@melissamkellogg.com and find a spot on my calendar.

I look forward to seeing you.