024. How to Create a Successful Podcast with Anne Claessen

Welcome. I am marketing expert and business coach Melissa Kellogg Lueck. And this is the Doing Business Like a Woman podcast, where we are exploring and teaching you how women are reinventing the way business is done and money is made to help you create greater impact and financial freedom one business at a time. Okay, well, welcome to the podcast. Today we have a very special guest here, and she's coming to us all the way from Germany. So I can't wait to hear all about that. But I'm going to just introduce to you Ann Claussen, and she is with the podcast babes, and I'm going to ask her to introduce herself, and then we're just going to dive right into the conversation. We're going to be talking all about her journey as an entrepreneur as well as about podcasting. And I am a beginning podcaster, so I'm sure she has so much wisdom that I'm going to enjoy and that everyone, you know, for anyone that's thinking about creating a podcast and what are the best ways to use their podcast, I can't wait to hear Ann's wisdom. So welcome, Ann. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you so much for having me, Melissa. I am so excited to be here and. Yeah. And chat about our business journeys, podcasting, all the good stuff.

Yeah. So, Ann, we're recording on a Friday, and it's Friday at about, you know, quitting time and Ann's world. So I'm saying I was telling her I'm so excited to actually be on my end of the fry and her end of the Friday. For me, it's Friday morning. But thank you so much for making time for us on your Friday afternoon. And if you could maybe start out by telling us a little bit about your journey as an entrepreneur, as a woman. Woman growing a business. And you're located in Germany. And so what is it like being an entrepreneur in your part of the world?

So tell us a little bit about you. Yeah, well, my entrepreneurship journey has been very international because I was actually traveling when I started my business. I went to university and I finished everything there in 2018. So I got my degrees and it was always my dream to become a lawyer. So I went to law school. I actually also went to business school because I was very, very interested in business. So I thought, okay, that's. That that might be useful in just doing corporate law. So, yeah, I studied long and hard, and then I realized that I did not want to become a lawyer. I just didn't see myself sitting in an office and doing that kind of work every day. But I was completely lost on what I wanted to do. I just. It was very clear to me that I didn't want to become a lawyer. But what the alternative was, I had no idea. I just saw all these options, and I was like, I don't know. So I decided, well, first I just applied for some random jobs, Was not excited about any of them. So then I decided, you know what? I'm just gonna travel as we millennials do. So, yeah, it's true, though. I'm a walking cliche. I know that. Just owning that. But, yeah, I travel. I went backpacking. Partly a solo trip, A part of it. I traveled with my friend, my best friend from university. We went all through Southeast Asia. I went to Australia. I did my working holiday there. After Australia, or actually in Australia, I was working at a strawberry farm. I was literally picking strawberries. And I had a lot of time to think because it was just me and strawberries every day for four months. And over there, I just started thinking, okay, what will my next step be? Because it was also kind of getting old to go from one odd job to the next. And I had some very. Call it, interesting jobs when I was in. In Australia. Some, like, really bad managers worked in hospitality. I worked in a shopping mall with, like, no daylight every day, and it was not great. So I wanted to get out of that situation. I also did not want to go home and definitely did not want to start a corporate job. So I. I explored some options. I found a course online to become a virtual assistant. And it sounded like a way to just make some money and keep traveling. That was basically it. I never expected that to be a career or anything like that. I just wanted to keep traveling. So after I finished my work in Australia, I went to. I went back to Southeast Asia because the cost of living is really low over there. And I started to look for clients as a virtual assistant. And in that course that I took, there was one module about podcast management, and that was awesome. Like, when I saw that, I was like, wow, people do this for a living? That is insane. I always listen to a lot of podcasts. So this whole new world of, like, the back end of podcasting opened up for me, and it was awesome. So when I saw that, I thought, oh, maybe I can do that for a client. So I marketed myself as just a general virtual assistant, but I was also looking for a podcast manager position or client. And, yeah, that's. That's how it started. That's a long journey. Start of a long Journey. But, yeah, that's. That's how it started in 2019. Was this. Yeah.

Nice. That's amazing. I love it. I. I really resonate with your story because I thought I was going to be a lawyer, too, and I actually. I went and I started. I worked, did, like, a student internship in a law firm, and I absolutely hated it. I was like, I do don't want to be here. I don't want to be around these people. Same.

Yeah. I did two internships as well, and I was miserable. Yeah.

But I guess where it's different, which I really admire about your journey, is that opportunity to just go and travel and have that international experience. And I don't know if it's my generation or my geography being here in the US that didn't even ever occur to me. And I wish it had, because what an amazing experience. And just to get to really allow yourself that time and that space to really come into understanding yourself more and understanding where you wanted to go and what you wanted to do, and just having that freedom to experiment. I love that. It's so cool. And so how has it been since 2019? Tell me how this has all come together. You're working as a virtual assistant and getting fired up about podcasting, and so tell me what happens next.

Oh, it has been a wild journey. It has definitely not been easy finding my first client. First of all, that was a whole project on its own. That was not easy for me. Now I see how I could have done that differently, but back then, I was just like, I don't have experience. I know I can do this. I know I can do the job, but how on earth am I going to tell these people to hire me? How am I going to do that? It took quite a while before I found my first client and done my second. And it didn't, like, my business didn't grow fast or anything. Like, I could just pay my bills when I was living in Southeast Asia, which is, like I said, low cost of living, but also not. Not more than that. Like, it was not. It was not going that well. I was just like, oh, I'll just get a few clients and I'll just earn a normal income, like what I would also earn at home, and it's going to be great. But that is definitely not what. What happened at all. So, yeah, it was. It was quite tough for a while also, just finding the next client. And now looking back, I can see that things could have been very different. But what I did, I didn't really market myself. At all, honestly. But I definitely didn't build a brand or anything. And my approach was just looking for the next client. And yeah, that didn't go well. So after about a year of freelancing as a podcast manager, I realized that that was not sustainable and also that I am actually not the perfect podcast manager. Podcast management has a lot of moving parts. You need to be an audio editor, you need to be a copywriter for show notes, you need to create graphics, like schedul, everything. It has so many moving parts. And I was good at some of that, but definitely not all of it. Or at least I. Well, good enough. But I didn't enjoy it, and I was also not, not amazing at it. So I wanted to make a big change, and I did. Eventually, in October 2020, I pivoted my business.

I.

Renamed it, relaunched it as the podcast base. So that is when the podcast base was really born and I made it into an agency model. So that means that I can do what I can do best and other people can do what they can do best. And I think it's a win, win for clients, especially because they get the best of the best for their podcast. So, yeah, from October 2020, it has been a podcast bait and I've been building a team slowly but steadily and expanding my client base. And yeah, that's. That's where we are now. But yeah, again, it has not been easy. Also, one thing I definitely want to mention is it now it sounds like, oh, cool, you know, she rebranded and it's the podcast base now. But also, that process has actually been quite tough because I expected to just launch a really cool business with a really cool brand. I worked with a branding expert. I got a new website, everything. It looked really, really cool. So I thought, okay, well, I'll just launch this and, like, clients come running at me. Yeah. Yeah. That was not what happened. I quickly realized that I kind of had to start over with marketing as well because the whole business changed. Like, people were like, who is this? What? What does she do? I don't know. So, yeah, that also took some time before. Before everything was really up and running. So for clients and marketing and all that. But eventually, here we are.

Yeah. So what kind of work are you doing now?

So my part is mostly not working for clients, actually. My. My job is I'm basically a manager, to be honest. And I love it. I never expected this, but I love being a manager. So most of my day talking to clients, I'm talking to my team members to make sure that everyone is on the same page that my team members know what they need to do and that they have the right circumstances to do that. So they. They have everything they need to do a really good job. And then I also look for new clients. I talk to potential clients. I do discovery calls and things like that. I focus on marketing. So it's more the strategy part of the business and also the operational part.

Yeah. Nice. So what is the podcast, babes? Like, what is your business doing now? Like, what are the services that you provide?

We still do podcast management, but that is handled mostly by my team. And when we have clients for more, like, the strategy, podcast strategy part than that is what I can do, which is really awesome. I love that part. And we focus on helping podcasters monetize their show. So making money from podcasting, I saw a huge gap in the market, basically because a lot of people in the industry tell you that, oh, you need 10,000 downloads or more than a thousand downloads per episode before you can earn money from your podcast. And that's just not true at all. And that is what I experience. Like, I do not have a large following, especially not those numbers. And I monetize my podcast in different ways. So I want to make sure that other people also know about this so that we can all keep podcasting as well. Like, podcasting is amazing, but when you're a business owner, you cannot just keep creating content for the sake of it. Usually, like, it needs to have something to do with your business. It needs to bring in new clients or new revenue, because otherwise we just cannot make the time for it.

So, yeah, I think, as I mentioned at the beginning, I'm a beginning podcaster. I started my podcast back in October, and so I did it as a way to really learn to trust my voice and to put my ideas out into the world and just grow my own confidence and my own, you know, owning my own value in that space. And so talk to me about, like, how you can monetize. Like, what are your tips and, you know, advice that you give to your clients?

Oh, so much. Well, I think, first of all, it's really good to know the different ways to monetize a podcast, because the first thing that comes to mind to many podcasters is sponsorships. The number one question I get is, where can I find a sponsor? And that is definitely one way to do it. That's. That's totally fine. But there are so many other ways to monetize your podcast. I think when you're a business owner, especially getting new clients into your business. That is probably the most profitable way and also probably the easiest way to monetize a podcast. You have this platform that you're building with long form content. You can say whatever you want to anyone is listening. You can, you can have episodes of 20 minutes, 10 minutes, but also an hour, an hour and a half, just whatever you want. I'm not saying that longer is necessarily better, but what I want to say is you have this opportunity to talk to people and explain exactly what you mean and people hear your voice while they, while you do that. And I think that is so, so powerful about podcasting is that people can actually hear your voice and that makes it really easy to build a connection with listeners. So if you, on a podcast, if you, if you tell your listeners about something that you also talk about in your business or something related to your business, people will be like, oh yeah, she's right, she's right. And then because that they hear your voice, you also build trust. So a relatively easy way to monetize a podcast is done at the end. You can tell people how to work with you. It's super, super easy. But not that many people actually do that because it's sometimes seen as salesy. I disagree with that because I think it's actually, you're actually doing your listeners a disservice by not telling them how they can, they can work with you. Because when I listen to an awesome podcast and I want more, I want more of this, like I want to hear more about this topic or from this person, I want to know how I can work with this person. So doing that is, I think for business owners especially the, the easiest way to monetize a podcast. But you also don't have to choose, I would say when you start monetizing your podcast, choose one way to do it and then once that is all up and running and going well, then add another way. But other monetization methods that you can think of is affiliate marketing, which is really well known in like the blogging space. But for podcasting it works also really well. Sponsorships, Absolutely. I also had a sponsor for my previous season on a podcast, which has been awesome, to be honest. We have a similar audience and we decided to work together and have a little ad snippet in my podcast episodes, which is awesome. We just share our audiences because they also share my podcast with their audience. So that's just awesome. That's also really, really interesting for some creators. And like I said, you don't need thousands of downloads for this. Even With a small audience, it can be interesting if your audience is similar to the audience that your sponsor wants to reach. And then there's more things that you can do. You can also think about running events, creating a membership, paid bonus content. Like, there are so many things that you can do. You can write a book from the podcast content that you created. There is actually so much you can do. But I think these are the main. The main methods that you can consider.

Yeah, that's so interesting.

I love it.

It's. I feel like the podcasting world is just such a. It's just getting started, right? And so there's so many different opportunities, and I love that creativity that you bring to it. I am definitely, you know, have a call to action at the end of my podcast. And I agree with you. Like, that's so important to always have that call to action. And in all the communication that we do. And I talk about this a lot because, you know, I think a lot of times entrepreneurs will assume, like, well, I don't want to bother people or I don't want to be salesy or, you know, but if we come into it thinking, well, of course everyone is going to want to know how to, you know, go deeper with this work or learn more about me and my work. And so, of course we want to offer that call to action. But I mean, it's very similar with the affiliate relationships and sponsorships. Like, what is some of your advice for finding good aligned? You know, because I think at this, by the same token, we don't want our podcast to, like, be just one long commercial. Right. And want it to really feel aligned and valuable. So what advice do you have around that?

Yeah, I think that's very important that you don't just include any ad in your podcast because then it will, like you said, feel like a commercial, and that's not what we want. So I think the first question you should ask yourself when either you approach a brand for a partnership or they approach you is, is this going to be interesting for my audience? I think that is always the first question to ask yourself as a podcaster. Also, when people pitch themselves to be a guest on your podcast, first thing is this interesting for my audience, because if not, then we don't want these people on the podcast or this brand on a podcast because it's just not a good match. So I think that's really important. And then second thing to ask yourself is, do I, like, do my values align with this brand? I think that's also really important. Like, I Don't want to recommend my listeners to use a brand that or a product that I don't like or I would not use. I think that's just unethical, to be honest. Because if you wouldn't spend your money on it, why do you ask other people to do that? I think that's just really weird. So I think as a podcaster, it's very important that we see our listeners are as very valuable. Like, these are our people and we want to protect them. We actually want to give them value. Even when we do a brand partnership that can also provide value, I think that can be a win for everyone involved. So that is the brand you as a podcaster, but also the audience. Like, I have listened to podcasts who had an ad in their, in their show, and it was really interesting to me. I looked up the product and I was like, oh, that's. That's really interesting. I'm glad I heard that ad. I never knew about this. I mean, that. That's also how it can be. So I think you can definitely be very strategic with this and to make. Yeah, just make sure that it aligns with everything you do. You don't want it to be noise and it doesn't have to be, I think.

Yeah, yeah. And so how do you help your clients, like, find some of those aligned partnerships? I know that I get inundated with pitches and requests all the time. And so how do you kind of see through all of that noise and just, do you go and just find people or do you let them come to you or like, what is some of the advice around that as far as creating those relationships?

I think both are good. It depends on what you want to focus on as well. So I have the podcast based podcast, of course, but I also have another podcast is called Digital Nomad Stories, and I interview digital nomads to share their stories. And for that podcast, it really started as a passion project and I wasn't focused on monetizing this podcast at all. But then I got an email from someone like, hey, I love your podcast. Can we talk about a partnership here? Because I would love, I would potentially love to be a sponsor. So I was open, I was like, okay, let's just have this conversation and see how it goes. And yeah, it actually ended up becoming my first sponsor. And I think just being open for that, because I also talk to a lot of podcasters who then see this as a scam immediately, like, why would someone pay me? But this is the thing, like, this is the thing that Happens, like for brands, this is good, this is what they want. You just got to make sure that it's a win win for, so that everyone is happy. So the brand gets exposure to your audience. But then also you want something in return, which is usually money. So just make sure that that is also well aligned. But this is a thing that happens, so don't freak out when it does just go like, have the conversation. And if it's not a good fit, then you say, oh, thank you, but I think it's not a good fit. And then if you have a brand in mind that you would love to work with, reach out, make your email personalized. That is like tip number one in any pitching. Make sure that it's not just an email blast that you send to a hundred people or more. Like, that just does not work if you want to pitch someone. If you want something from someone, make sure that they know that you really want this, that you did your research that, and especially tell them what you have to offer to them. Like, it's not about you, it's about them and what you can do for them. So that is what you want to make sure to include in your pitch. So also, when you pitch someone to be a guest on their podcast, I also get a lot of pitches from people who want to be a guest on my show. And sometimes it's about how amazing they are and like, good for you. I'm glad that you accomplished all of this, but it's not really relevant to me. Yeah, like, thank you for telling me this, but yeah, I cannot do anything with that. So you want to make sure that you really say, okay, this is what I can do for you. This is how I can see this partnership going. And also make sure that you build a relationship. So if you got a no from that first pitch, okay, fine, just keep in touch. Follow their social media accounts, comment like engage. Make sure that they know you keep in touch. Because like you said, it's a relationship. It's a relationship that you want to build. And a no can also turn into a yes later on. Sponsoring podcast is still really new for a lot of brands, and a lot of brands don't know how to approach this or they have never considered this, but it's more and more brands are doing this. So it's like you said, it's definitely the start of podcasting and it's growing so fast on so many different levels. So yeah, it's really exciting. But also, yeah, for brands, don't expect them to always have a budget for this or to know exactly how this goes?

Yeah, I love that. It's so interesting. And so what are you hearing just from your perspective of being an expert on podcasting? Like, how is the industry growing? What are some of the statistics around what you're seeing?

Well, at the moment that we're recording this, there are about two and a half million podcasts.

Wow.

Live. But I do want to say it's not two and a half million podcasts who also release episodes. There's a lot of podcasts, I think. Yeah. More and more who are just sitting there and don't release new content, which happens a lot. So if you're listening to this and you're considering to start a podcast, know that this is very common, that after about usually seven to 10 episodes, that it's not as exciting anymore. And that's the time that a lot of podcasters take a break and never come back to podcasting. So not saying you shouldn't start your podcast, definitely do it, but be aware of this, that this is very common, and make sure it doesn't happen to you. And one way to do that is to make sure that you have a backlog of content. At least record it if you have to edit it and stuff like that.

Okay.

But make sure that you have some backlog recorded so that you can relatively easy release content. Consistency, consistently, consistency is, I think, very important when you want to grow an audience. When the audience is not there yet. I'm not saying you cannot podcast without consistently releasing episodes is totally possible. And I have seen people who are very successfully doing this, but especially if you want to grow an audience and if you want to build trust with a new audience, that's when you really want to focus on consistency.

Yeah, I love that you're bringing that up because I hear that all the time, like, people will be like, well, you know, I. I created a podcast or I posted on social media for 30 days. Where are my clients? Right. And it's like, like, you have to make that commitment over the long term and set yourself up for success. Right. Because that's really where we gain that trust and we grow that audience is by committing to something over the long term. And I see a lot of times people will say, okay, well, I've got to be on social media and TikTok and YouTube and podcasts, and they get all these things going, but they make it so hard for themselves to stay consistent because there's so much going on. And so if you can just choose if you want a podcast. Yeah, let's make a commitment to it and set yourself up for success. Right. Like, I love what you're saying about consistently showing up and I would be really curious, I don't know if you know these numbers or even if they're out there. Like, how many podcasts are consistently having shows and publishing? Like, I would like, what is even the percentage, I wonder?

Oh, I'm not sure, but from the top of my head I would say maybe, maybe even like 10 or 20%. Like really low. Really, really low. I do want to mention that you can also be consistent while also take breaks. So what I mean by that is with the podcast based podcast, we work in seasons. So I do a season of 22 episodes and 11 weeks. So it's a lot of content in a pretty short time. And then we take a break. And you can take a break as long as you want, but just make sure that you tell your audience when you'll be back and be there. So now at the moment that we're recording this, I'm actually, we're on a break with the podcast. We just released the last episode of the season this week. So now for the next, what is it, six weeks or even, even eight weeks? No, I think even eight weeks. We're not releasing content, but that gives me the opportunity to create the content. So now I start recording for the new season. I start reaching out to guests or schedule guests who have reached out to me and record all the solo episodes, get everything going, make sure I plan everything and like you said, yeah, reset myself up for success. And if you're worried about the consistency and you're not sure if it will fit in your schedule to create a content. To create content every week, I totally understand. But then just make sure that there is an end date for yourself, like if there's an end date inside and you know, okay, well, I'm just, I'm just gonna do this. You can really, you can really plan it as a project. Like this is season five. Okay, done. And then on to the next season. And it's with a set start and end. It just makes it so I think it makes it so much easier.

Yeah, I love that. So I would be interested to hear from you, like what you have found as just a publishing schedule or let's see, a production schedule that's worked for you. I know some people like to batch and do a whole bunch of episodes at once. And some people are, you know, recording one at a time. Some people are recording a month at a time or whatever. And it's always fascinated me. I've tried all of it. And so I'm always, like, tweaking my own production schedule. And I've found if I consistently am recording just about every week, that helps me to kind of keep my head in the game and stay consistent. If I take long breaks, then I, you know, I'm like, well, maybe I'll come back, maybe I won't. But, yeah, what works for you and your clients?

Well, first of all, I love that you just tried all the different methods. I think that's so smart, because what works for me might not work for you. We're all different, and we all like to work differently. So I love batch recording, but I also like to have some flexibility to create episodes about things that just, like, happen in my life or that I recently learned or a question that I got on social media. So how I do it is I try to plan ahead my guest interviews, so I record them ahead of time. Quite long ahead of time, actually, because the thing with guest interviews is you're working with another person, and things might happen in their life. Like, they get busy, they have to reschedule. I don't know. Like, things. Things happen, and then you cannot release an episode, which is not great. So I really try to work ahead of time with my guest interviews and then solo episodes. I try to be a little bit more flexible. So usually I have some of them recorded already when the season starts, and some I will just record maybe two or three weeks in advance, sometimes even one week in advance, but usually two or three weeks in advance so that we also have enough time for editing, marketing, writing show notes. Like, there's a lot of moving parts that come with creating a podcast. So I want to make sure that we have enough time for all of that, and that works well for me. But I also made the mistake of not having much of a backlog. And last season that we did, and that just did not work well for me at all. I had a situation where I did not have new content anymore, and I really felt a pressure to create new content. And I. That just. I don't know, my creativity was just gone. I was like, what am I gonna do? Like, I felt all this pressure, and it was just horrible for my creativity. So, yeah, new season, I changed that. And I really work with a backlog, especially with guest episodes. And the cool thing with how I do my podcast is I have an interview with a guest, and then I create a solo episode after that so then I can talk about the interview that I Had. Even though maybe I record the solo episodes way later. Doesn't matter for the listener, because I am. I can refer back to, like, hey, if you heard the interview that I had with Melissa last Monday, then we talked about, blah, blah, blah, and one of the things she said I thought was so interesting. And in this episode, I want to go deeper into that specific topic. So you can also be smart about this and use this to your advantage so that you never have what I had in the previous season that I did not have. New content.

Yeah, I love that, and I love that kind of repurposing. And it's such a skill to really train ourselves to think about all the different ways that we can repurpose content. And I love that idea of going deeper with a subject that you have a conversation about in an interview. And one thing that I wanted to ask you about is starting a podcast is, you know, for a lot of us, a big deal. I thought about starting a podcast for four years, and I never did it because it always seemed, like, so hard. And like, oh, I have to have all this equipment and I gotta. I don't know how to edit. And then, you know, I have to create all these supporting materials. So what advice would you have for those in the audience that have thought about or maybe dreamed about, like me for the last four years, starting a podcast, and how can we do it, like, super simply and also in a way that we can grow it and improve it over the years, but maybe we don't have to start, you know, with the best of everything, having everything perfect. What would your advice be?

Yeah, no, it's exactly like you said. Don't wait until things are perfect, because that moment will never come. And, yes, there are a lot of moving parts. There are a lot of things that you think you need when you start a podcast, but you don't need a microphone. You don't would be nice if you have one, but that is something that you could always add later. I think the most important thing to have when you start a podcast is a plan so that you can be successful, so that you can keep going, because that is the thing that will set you apart from other podcasters. It's not the microphone that you have. It's also not the COVID art that you created. Yeah, that's not what. Of course, at some point that will become important, and that is something that you can improve. But what really sets you apart is when you keep going, because then you can make all these improvements and then you can also hone in to or like, craft your message. I think that is also something that people obsess about is, yeah, but what if I don't have anything to say anymore or I don't know what I want to talk about? I don't want to make it too general because everyone says niche down. I think there's wisdom in both and like, starting broad and then niching down, but also in starting narrow. So niche down and then expanding your topics. But the cool thing about podcasting is nothing is set in stone. You can change everything about your podcast, literally everything. So if you pick a format, you can change it. So if you do interviews and all of a sudden you don't want to do interviews anymore, or you don't have time or it's not resonating with your audience or, I don't know, you can just switch to solo episodes. You can have a mix. Doesn't matter. Like, one thing that's really important to remember, it is your podcast, and you're the boss, so you can literally do whatever you want. And of course, there are some best practices and there is a ton of tips that I have for you, but in the end, it is your podcast. So I totally understand. Like, you want to make it a big thing and you want it to be successful, but just, just by being consistent, that really increases your chances of being successful. Because, like, I, like I already said, like we talked about earlier, the one thing that many podcasters do is stop producing content.

Yeah, that's.

That's basically. But I have to stop you and.

Be like, well, how can I record without a microphone? Like, tell me.

Yes, good question. The best way to start recording is just use headphones. If you have these, like AirPods. Best is actually if it has a wire you can record on your phone. It can be. What is it called? Like a voice message. Not a voice message.

Voice memo or something.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It can be just that. Like, it doesn't have to be complicated if you don't know how to add it. See if you can hire an editor if, like, if you. If you don't want to get into all the technical side of things and hosting and things like that got help, like get someone to help you set it up so that you can hit. Hit the ground running and you don't have to worry about all of that. I think starting a podcast, you have to make an investment and it's going to be either time or money. Yeah, just like starting anything, you just. There. There needs to be some kind of investment and it's step by step. So you've got to start. Probably you won't feel ready. It's gonna feel scary. And I also want to share a little bit about my own, like starting my own podcast. Because with the podcast based podcast, I was a podcast manager for a while already and I thought, okay, so now I need a pod. Like, I feel like I need a podcast and I have things to say, so I want to start a podcast. But I obsessed about it so much because I was like, this needs to be perfect. Of course, yeah, as we all think. But especially because I was a podcast manager. I was like, I cannot do this without it being perfect. And I actually did buy a microphone, an inexpensive one, because I still was trying to figure out if this is my thing and all that. And I think in my situation that made sense. But I also think that you don't have to. But one thing that I just couldn't figure out is making it a proper launch. So I wanted to make it a big thing. Like, guys, the podcast is coming, Here we are, big event. And I just didn't have time, had space, energy to pull this off. So I was like, you know what, never mind, I'll just launch it later. I just felt like if I have to wait until I have time and energy to do this, it's going to take another few months or maybe even a year before I finally get this message out. And I didn't want to wait. So I thought, you know what, there won't be a launch. There will just be all of a sudden be a podcast. It's not going to be a big thing. But that's also fine because you have, like I said, you're the boss. So I launched my second season with a bang.

And so you did that one the way you wanted to.

That's fun.

That's such a great point because, yeah, we put so much pressure on ourselves, right, to have the perfect, you know, audio equipment, the perfect cover art, the perfect launch, all these things.

But.

But at the end of the day, that's not really what matters. What matters is that we're getting that value and that our ideas out into the world and serving people and helping people, right? And so we can allow it to be messy and imperfect and it still can serve and help so many people. But like, for me, I was like so stuck in perfectionism that I sat on my ideas for four years.

And.

You know, it took like that journey of getting over that in order to actually be able to do it, so.

Exactly. Yeah. And you're not alone. Like, the number one thing that I hear from podcasts is that they wish they started earlier.

Yeah, that's such a great point. Right.

You got to start somewhere, because otherwise you cannot improve. You cannot improve something that is not there.

Yeah, absolutely. That's a great point. I love that. Well, Anne, this has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much. I really appreciate all of your wisdom and your advice, and you've given me some really great ideas, and I hope that we've inspired some new podcasters in the world because we, you know, there's so many great ideas, and I know that the. The women that listen to this podcast are very smart, wise women that have so much to offer to the world.

So.

So if you're thinking about starting a podcast, I encourage you to just go ahead and do it and don't sit on it for four years. And make sure you follow Ann and check out all of her advice and tips on how to do that. So can you tell us, like, where to follow you, where to keep up with you, and keep in touch with you? What's the best way to do that?

Yeah, I think the best way is to find my podcast. It's on all podcast apps. Wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find it at the Podcast Babes. Or if you don't use an app, you can also go to thepodcastbabes.com podcast. That's also where you can find all the episodes with show notes and timestamps and more info and all the links. So that might be the best place to listen then.

Awesome. Well, we'll make sure and include that in the show notes for this episode so that you have that as well. So thank you so much, Anne. I appreciate your time and I hope you have a great Friday evening.

Thank you so much, Marisale. It was so good talking to you and your audience.

Thank you.

Bye.

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