https://www.listennotes.com/e/abe1c19b27c5409c8ce6305f5cae54f4

Oh, hello. Hello, friends. It's so great to be with you today and thank you for tuning in. I have a guest with me today that I'm really excited to introduce to you and we're gonna let her introduce herself. But I want to just tell how I met Abigail. She and I are both managing directors. She is in the Knoxville, Tennessee chapter with E Women Network. And so we met. I think we met earlier or really got a chance to get to know each other earlier this at the Platinum Summit in Newport Beach, California. And one thing I love about Abigail is she loves good food and good restaurants.

So.

So I knew instantly that we were going to be good friends. She invited me to go out to dinner with her and another friend of ours and we had such a great conversation and I had a chance to get talked to her in Dallas again. And after that I was like, I have to have her on the podcast because we have these really rich conversations about marketing and sales I think would really benefit all of you listening. So, Abigail, please introduce yourself to the audience and then we'll dive right in.

Oh. The question is always, how far back do you want me to go? But I am some really great stories.

Of the early years, which I'm going to ask you about that in a little bit. So.

Okay. I'm Abigail Tiefenthaler. I'm known as a leverage and launch strategist. I work primarily with female coaches and consultants. And I have a business partner whose name is Tammy Korea. She lives in Minnesota. I live in East Tennessee. And we create marketing that drives sales. So it's a very strategic type of marketing that helps lead into more sales conversations. And the, the thing about, you know, I always say I'm a one trick pony because I've done marketing, really client getting my entire career, the first 15 years in corporate and then the last 26 as an entrepreneur. So we understand the marketing and sales conversation probably better than most.

I love that. Yeah. And I. I wanted to ask you to tell us your story of how you got into this work. And because you have really great story, you were kind of born into it. So tell us.

I was like, there's a lot of DNA in me. That's all marketing related. My mother actually worked at BBDNO in New York until she had me, and my dad was at BBDNO as well. And then after my second brother was born, my mother started a marketing consulting business out of the house. So I grew up just immersed in the marketing world. My dad was involved with products that we use today. The launch of them. And my mother focused on fulfillment. So they had a lot of clients between them. And my dad would refer clients to my mom, my mom would refer clients to my dad. So it was a lot of dinner talk around the. Around it. And I. When I was in high school, my guidance counselor asked me, he goes, are you going to college? And I said, yeah, I'm going to go to college because what are you going to go for? And I. I looked at him like he had seven heads, because I just couldn't imagine doing anything than marketing. Yeah. So today I. I usually will say, if there's somebody out there who's been doing this longer than I have and has, you know, the breadth of experience, because I've worked in advertising, I've worked in marketing, I've worked in direct mail, I've worked in promotion, I've worked on the client side and product management, and then stayed abreast of, you know, what's happened since. Social media and the Internet have really taken over. I always say, you know, bring them on. I'd like to meet them. So, yeah.

Yeah.

I love Pony, and I love that.

Perspective because, you know, and this is what I tell my clients all the time, is that there are certain things about marketing and sales that have never changed. Like, there's certain fundamentals. Yes, the tools that we use have changed, but the fundamentals have never changed.

Exactly.

So I would love to hear from you, like, what do you see as those fundamentals that you love to teach on?

The fundamentals are the strategy, the structure, and then the paths to the tactical implementation. I think most people mistake strategy and tactics because the words are misused. And all of that deep work that goes into helping identify the audience, the message, the offer, the path, you know, the overall, you know, ground path is done in the strategy development. The research is all done, the validation, the, you know, testing is all done in the strategy. And in my personal perspective, I think what's happened today with so many people going into entrepreneurship and starting their own business is that they want to get it out there so quickly that they often will skip those steps because they feel they can navigate their way through it. And that's a huge challenge because, number one, they don't really know how to navigate through it. So they don't go deep enough to ask the question 17 different ways to understand at the root what they're trying to convey, and then they're trying to identify the steps they need to do. And they often miss the small nuances that are discussed in the strategic part. Of the business. I mean, I have it easy because I'm the strategist on the team. Right. I've, I, I'm that big picture, and I want to make sure everything is aligned where Tammy has invested tons of time and lots of dollars to really understand the nuances of tactical implementation. So that's, you know, the, the, that's the. I, I think really how. What's often missing and what the most fundamental part of marketing is, is understanding the strategic questions that you need to be asking.

Yeah. Yeah. So what would you say now is like, your zone of genius? Like, what part of this do you, of your work do you absolutely love?

Oh, I, Well, I like a lot of it. I mean, I've been one of those few people that have never really felt like I've worked a day in my life because I've always pretty much done what I'm good at. And it's, it's about helping a person, a business, pull out their secret sauce. It's about helping them understand that if they stand in, the power of them, whatever that power is, the confidence, the courage, the ability to be consistent, the, you know, lack of questioning their why just goes away. All of, all of the fears about making an offer and getting themselves out there and being visible and developing those relationships, they, they, they just all kind of happen naturally. So really getting to the root of answering those questions, who they are, what they do, why they do it, who they do it for and why they need it. Because oftentimes nobody's really thought about it on their own. They, they think they, they've thought about it or they've really thought about the big picture. But getting somebody to hone down and say, I understand now why it's so critical to, especially if you want to be doing things virtually. Right. In the old days, we would meet somebody at a chamber meeting, or we would cold call, or we would be speaking at an event and at a conference, and we would get to know people and they would see how we talk to other people. They would see. Maybe we would meet them at a church or in. On a soccer field with our kids. Like, they would see who we were and get to know us, and we'd have multiple conversations that you don't even know you're kind of having. Right. That's the beauty of that. In person relationship building. Or even if in the old days of cold calling, you know, you'd pick up the phone, you'd ask to talk to the marketing director of a company, and you'd say, hey, you Know, I, I'd love to help you. Can you give me an idea of what's going on? But that would happen over a period of time and they take your call and they get to know you. Today you are dealing with a very cold, very cold and somewhat cruel Internet world. Right. Where your first point of contact could be an email, it could be a dm, it could be a social media post. And now you know that re that you, you only are seeing a small little snippet of who that person is. Yeah, it, you know, it, it can. To me, that's been the fundamental change of why sometimes we don't go deep enough in the strategy is we're always again trying to react, you know, to that.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's so even more noise out there that people are complete, are constantly getting bombarded with. Right. That we have to consider as marketers and helping people to kind of break through that.

Yeah, that's why we have to be disruptive. We have to be authentically disruptive. Oh, I love that. You know, we, we really have to. And that's where this understanding of who we are, the problem we solve and the people we work with, we have to be authentically disruptive. I truly remember back in New York City advertising in the 80s and I was always in business development. I was always the person that was willing to pick up the phone and cold call and I would have somebody say to me, well, how many times have you reached out? And I go, oh, I've reached out three or four. Stop. Because now you're hounding. And I was smart enough or intuitive enough, I'm not quite sure which to know. I, oh no. After three times they're just learning my name, you know, so today that is multiplied, I don't know, by, by tons. I don't really know what the numbers are. Right. So that when people talk about follow up and they talk about consistency and they talk about reaching out, you know, we will tell a client when we're working with them that we want an 80 sequence, nurture email, you know, 80 nurture email sequence. And they'll be like, what? Well, with AI today that's not really an issue. But because just being there, six, eight, ten months later, your email is going to get noticed because all of a sudden you're the one that's consistently in their inbox if they haven't unsubscribed, you know, kind of thing. But yeah, that three, in my opinion, has now gone to, you know, 30 or 40.

Yeah, yeah. And I love to teach that too. Around email marketing. It's like it's okay if not everybody opens every email that you send them. They're still seeing your name pop up in their email in their inbox every Monday or every Friday or whatever it is. And it does, it creates that trust.

Yeah, I agree. And I, I, I don't think there's any better media that can be used other, you know, be like, I still think email is a phenomenal way to ultimately get clients in when you're in there for the long haul, you know, and to be the same and, and to show up and you know, play with your subject matter, subject lines and be short and then be long and you know, know, mix it up a little bit. But we really do need that many touch points. I mean, not necessarily 80. People will say, oh, you know, it's 12 to 15. And I'll say, no, it's probably more like 30. Because you're right. That noise, you've got to stand above it or rise above it, I should say.

Yeah. And I think we often as entrepreneurs are thinking about our goal this month or this quarter, but really we have to be thinking about the long game and that's where that 80 comes in. Because you're like, we're in here for the long haul. We might not get this person, you know, to reach out or respond to us and engage with us this month or not even next month. But I have a mentor of mine that talks about the three year buy cycle. Like we're thinking about, you know, nurturing relationships now for people that aren't even going to buy for another three years possibly.

Exactly. Because you don't know where they are in their decision making process. And, and it's absolutely true. We had a client come in a couple of years ago and she said, it was on the 53rd email and she said, I feel like I know you, you know, because of, of that conversation that we were having one way with her where she got to get an idea of our sense of humor and you know, what was important to us.

Yeah.

So, but it's absolutely true. Yeah.

So with all of those touches, how do you recommend thinking about them? Because we know we're not going to be like sell, sell, sell on every single one. That long game is like, it's a relationship building. So how do you recommend we build those relationships?

You know, part, part of it is really a little custom to the client. Right. You know, I, I've, we've worked with clients that don't mind sending out an email a day or three emails a week and others who are like, no, I don't even want it once a week, you know, so the, the paths are often a little different. You know, we're all walking at slightly different paces, if you will. And the, the process within the email or social media posting is to give them enough information so that they understand that problem isn't going to go away on its own until they address it. Whether they address it with us or whether they address it another way, we have to remind them of what they're resisting. And we use case studies, testimonial, mini trainings, just short little notes. You know, we, we follow up to an opt in series. But again, part, part of the importance of creating a good e. A good, you know, product launch. Right. A campaign to support a launch, is that you have to know ultimately where you want them to go. You have to know the thing that in a perfect world they would be purchasing or working with you to, to, to solve. Right. That problem. And then everything gets backtracked from that. So you now have your Legion piece that could be a conversation that goes into some type of freebie. And then over the course of time, you could have a workshop. You could start offering a live, whether it's free or whether it's low end, you know, low, low priced, just to get people to say, well, you know what, I see what she's like on paper or maybe I've seen pictures of her or whatnot. I now want to. How is she going to interact with me specifically? How, how are we going, you know, how does she approach this problem from, you know, the way she solves it? So I think I'm answering your question in that the path is, is a little bit different for everybody. Which is one of the reasons why I don't think marketing can be templated. You know, I think it's really hard for somebody to pick up a template and go, oh, I can run with this. You know, it's not an accounting system or an inventory system. Right, right. You have to understand not just what you're trying to accomplish, but who you are trying to accomplish while you're trying to accomplish. And then what's the buying cycle, the buying behavior of that prospect?

Yeah, I think that's so important. I love that you can't really template marketing. I know all those people that have downloaded, you know, templates are going to be like, darn it. But I really agree though.

Yeah. I mean, when they get to a certain level of, of savviness or or sophistication and they understand the templates can be helpful because they will be good sources of inspiration. But I just don't think marketing is plug and play.

Yeah. Because it really is about creating a relationship and it is about your energy and the client's energy and I mean especially for the people, the type of clients that we're helping, the trust based, service based businesses, it does have to be more personal.

Yes, I agree, I agree with you.

And so on that note, it brings up to me kind of a new topic around AI. I know you mentioned AI earlier and where do you see or what are your thoughts around personalization and AI and how that kind of all fits together?

I'm excited for it. I mean for the person, I'm the teammate that's always resistant to change because I'm like, strategy never changes, I don't need to worry. But I think AI is a game changer and I think the automation, some of the platforms that are out there have just help transform business. I go back to my early days as an entrepreneur when I was building a seven figure business and I, I had some of this stuff been around. I don't know what I could have accomplished, you know, because I wasn't a one person show, I was a one person plus automation show. You know, everything I did was manual. I did all my, my phone calls manual, I did all my record keeping manually. I did all my follow up manually. You know, was one off. Right. So I didn't do email sequences and things like that. So to me I think AI is great. The challenge with AI is learning how to work the prompts and then getting it to really understand the voice of your prospect, your voice and then what the prospect needs. So that's the, you know, you still need experts who are helping you navigate that because they just understand the technology better.

Yeah, yeah, that's, yeah, it's, it really is a game changer for sure. So in talking about automation, like how, how are you using that as the secret sauce in your marketing campaigns?

We do a lot of cold outreach and we, you know, have identified different platforms that work better than others. So it's been a testing year, you know, for the, for the most part of finding the platform that LinkedIn doesn't want to knock, you know, put, put you in jail for, it's finding the one that allows you to go a little bit deeper, you know, beyond first level or second or third level contacts. But how do you borrow audiences and how do you use LinkedIn to identify email and you know, There's, I mean, some of the stuff has been out there, but the, the tools have become more and more sophisticated. So I, I think that's one of the things that's been a little bit of a game changer for our business specifically is, again, Tammy, investing all of this time and to understand, well, if I do this and this and this together, I now have, you know, more reach, I've got more depth, I've got more, I can be more specific in the audience I'm targeting. So it's kind of a little bit like the Facebook ad world, where if you just go and use the insights, you know, you're only going to get so far. But a good Facebook ad expert knows how to uncover more ways of pinpointing, you know, and being more specific in the audience and the. Where, timing and, you know, all of those things that come to play in the online world.

That's cool. So you mentioned LinkedIn. Tell me how you're using LinkedIn or how you found LinkedIn to be effective.

Well, I, you know, I think cold, cold outreach is one of the ways we use LinkedIn. We use it to scrape emails. We use it to increase visibility and increase connections because then we can invite them to events. I mean, LinkedIn events can be very effective. We can borrow other audiences. So if you have, you know, hypothetically, a life coach that does not have a huge reach on LinkedIn, but there is a. Another life coach that has a bigger reach and does what you do, you can, you know, kind of bar. And people have done that for years. Right. You know, so you can do that authentically. Of course. So that, but those are some of the things. And then I guess to go deeper, you'd have to talk to Tammy again. Remember, I'm the big picture.

Right? That's Tammy's zone of genius.

That's her zone. That is truly her zone of genius, because it is not mine. But I know we use, I mean, everything we do is, is automation. We, we come up with the idea and then how do we implement it, and what are the tools that are best used to implement it? And that's what marketers do. Right? I mean, the, the, the old days of marketing, you know, a company would create something and then they would bring it to an agency and go, okay, what do we do with it?

Yeah, right.

You know, my dad was a part of helping, I think it was DuPont create a marketing department. Like, they didn't have marketing departments, you know, back in the six 50s and 60s. You know, you, you had people who Sold. But then to understand the nuances of how do you deal with shelf space and how do you deal with merchandising and how do you get the sales team on board? Right. All of those things now translate into 2024. You still have a lot of little pockets that have to be addressed. And that again is another reason why you have an entrepreneur who's trying to do it. They go right to selling it as opposed to really understanding, well, wait a minute, if I sell it this way and I have to deliver it this way, my messaging has to be this way. Right. You know, they're, and so they're trying to figure that out on their own and they're not easy puzzle pieces to put together because they're all test based.

Right. It's all an experimentation. Yeah. Science experiment.

All marketing is research is what I say.

Yeah. And testing and changing things up. So what do you see from your perspective as the biggest challenge with marketing and sales today?

Well, I mean, I think we've talked a little bit about some of the challenges. I think there's really not a true understanding of what marketing is. I mean, again, marketing is really a research based discipline and it's about asking questions that you have to go deep enough to understand the response and asking that question again and going, why is this important? Why is this important? To get to the root of it. So I think that's part of it is the, there's, you know, without using the word, like every, every entrepreneur needs an agency. Every entrepreneur needs somebody who understands marketing. And that's not always the case. And here's the thing, there are corporate, you know, people who come from corporate who are building businesses and they may say, well, I know what the marketing team does, but they know what the marketing team does from the weekly round table conversations. They really don't understand all the nuances to it, number one. I think, number two, there are so many experts out there that are, they're, they're really, they're not subject matter experts, they're skill set experts. So people will buy a Facebook ad expert, but they may not be ready for Facebook or they may not be ready for ads. Right? Yeah. You know, they will buy an email solution or they will buy a course creation creation solution and they don't really know what they need. So they'll, they're still buying out of order and they're still buying programs or they're buying something that they think is going to give them what they need. But there's nobody who's looking at the bigger Picture going, How does this all weave together? Where, where is the pattern? You know, how am, how am I showing up on social media, how am I showing up in email, how am I showing up in person, how am I showing up when I speak? You know, the book I wrote, does it relate to everything I'm doing? Right. There's, there's nobody that's kind of looking at the top going, is this a breakfast, lunch or dinner? Because I can't tell from the food that's on the table.

Yeah, yeah. So I love that. So just to kind of bring it down to, to back, to kind of back to the basics. So if I'm a brand new consultant, I've say I've come out of corporate and you know, I want to consult now and offer my skills and knowledge and experience to other businesses and I'm going to hang my shingle out and maybe I've got a client or two already, so I've got some money coming in, but yet as I think about growing this, I have no idea what to do in terms of marketing and sales. What your first few steps be, what, how would you suggest I move forward?

Well, I think the number one thing that we want to do is find out really what type of business they want to have, right where, you know, we want to go back to the beginning. So even that vision, mission, value, how do I want to spend my day? What type of client do I want to work with is a good place to start. How much money do I want to make? You know, because now we can say, all right, so these are the skill sets that you possess. And now what we have to do is package that we have to figure out, in their opinion, what the client needs that works for them, not what they want the client to buy. Right. They really have to be client centric. So once we can figure that out, then we can say, okay, well what does that audience look like and where is that audience? How do we, you know, like where do they hang out? What's the messaging, what's the problem we're solving? We have to start asking all of those type of questions to build something forward, but we kind of need to know where we want to go.

Yeah, I think that's such a great question because, you know, a lot of solopreneurs, they start, but they haven't never really thought about where they're wanting, where they're going. Do you want to just stay solo, have a nice, you know, small stable of clients, make good money, but you're not like building to Having a team and, you know, international reach and such. And such. And such. So yeah, it's a really a great question and sometimes we don't know the answer and that's okay. But it's like, what do you know now?

Well, that's right. What do you know now is, is a great way to position it because ultimately, once you've worked with a couple of people that are not, not in your. Well, maybe they're in your warm circle. Right. Maybe there are people that you, they know you and they go, oh, I'd love you to help me with X. You might say, you know what, I really don't want to be doing that. Or that's not my secret sauce. Or wait a minute, I didn't know. Like, I want to do this, I don't want to do everything else that's included. So they have to, the entrepreneur has to be willing to be flexible, to be coachable. And the reason I, you know, again, I'm a little bit of a marketing and a client getting snob, I will admit that. Where people will say, no, you need the structure, no, you need the offer. I'm like, you need to get out there and start talking to people. Right. Whether you're talking to them on social media, from a stage, in person, through email, through cold dms, you've got to start figuring out what's working. And it's one of the things that we do is we do small. That's why we like cold outreach, because we can do small batch testing. Well, nobody wanted, you know, this freebie. We need to, like, what is the problem we're trying to solve? Nobody. This messaging, this, you know, the, the headline. Right. Why is the subject matter not getting open? You know, the, the email, why is it not getting opened? So, but if you're doing this on your own, right. Why they would hire somebody like us or somebody like you is that they know it's a process and they know that process is going to have starts and stops and they need, they need to say, okay, well that didn't work. Now what do we do? Yeah, right.

Yeah, yeah. And a lot of clients, a lot of women that I talk to will get to that sticking point and they'll take it personally, like, oh, this means I'm terrible at this, I can't do business, I probably should pack up and, you know, get another job or whatever.

Right, Right.

But we do, we have to remember it's an experimentation. Right. It's all about experimenting. And I think that's the beauty of networking and Getting out and talking to actual humans and having that face to face feedback because, you know, it allows you to deliver your message, deliver your offer, tell people what you do a hundred different ways and see, you know, what resonates with people, what do they understand, what do they want, how you.

Know, and that's not your friend and it's not your family. And you know, that's the, the challenge is, is that you have to be able to stand bold in a, you know, you have to look at somebody and go, I really want to work with this person. So what do they need to hear that I can deliver authentically? What do they need to know that will help them understand who I am not? I want to, you know, just start talking away. That's why I don't like to ever be the first person to say what I do when I'm in a community because, you know, marketers are a little bit of a chameleons. Right? You know, we, because if we're gonna say, oh, you know, I create LinkedIn and somebody's like, well, I only network in person. That doesn't mean we can't help them. It's. We want to be able to help give them value and tailor the conversation. Just. And so sometimes not being the first person allows you to kind of read the room, if you will.

Yeah, no, I've heard that before. And I think that's such a great idea. And it really challenges your mind to be able to adjust to what other people are saying, you know, and you can even use stories that they might tell or whatever to explain how your, how you help people and what kind of work you do.

Right, exactly.

Yeah. So. And that kind of veers off into sales. So tell me, in your opinion, how does sales and marketing differ?

Oh yeah, I have a. To me, marketing is one way communication designed to drive decision making, plain and simple. You know, I don't know what the AMA says or what some marketing expert says, but I'm a marketing expert and that's what I say. It is one way communication designed to drive decision making. So all of the posts that you make, all the emails, every time you get up and do a 30 second at a networking event, when you're at a conference, it's really all to get somebody to turn around and go, I need to know more. Sales is a two way conversation designed to help get to clarity, designed to help somebody understand at the core how you can help them specifically and whether they're a yes, a no, or a maybe or not. Not maybe, but yes, no, or not now? You know, we want, we want clarity at the end of a sales conversation where. At the marketing. At the end of a marketing conversation, we want to know that we've brought them closer to sales or have them decide, no, I'm. This is not for me.

Yeah, yeah. So tell me about how you work with your clients and I know you have a new membership that you have launched and how that kind of fits into this marketing and sales conversation.

Yeah, so this came about kind of in a quirky way, but, you know, when we first started our business five years ago, we were providing marketing support and we had a sales trainer who would come and work with our clients clients to give them the confidence to, you know, take the sales calls as we were bringing people, you know, getting appointments for them. And what we found out is people who don't like to sell really don't want to be taught how to sell either. So we said, you know, what we're going to do is we're going to take over the sales part. So we created a product called Closers on Demand. And we still offer that. It's for the coach or consultant who can't, donor, won't, don't take their own sales and really, you know, needs that space freed up in their mind and time, you know, off their calendar. We do it with other women that we've met over the years who we've sold with, you know, during con, various contracts that we've been a part of. So that's kind of fun. But we also realized that a lot of these people were doing their own marketing. And so the challenge with selling when you're not doing the marketing is that you don't really know who's going to end up on the other end of that zoom or phone call. And so we expanded into Legion and then we said we had a lot of people who were like, you know, I just really want to understand how to do it. And so the Grow Method Training lab was created as a, as a membership community. No contract where you can come and you can learn the four pillars, which are strategy, content, a technical, you know, how do you, how do you hubble this together or what platform works best with this platform? You know, when you're putting, when you're putting together those launch sequences or those funnels, if you will. And then the fourth pillar is the whole concept of implementation and tactic base. Let's put eyes on our business. Let's talk about it. Let's be in this mastermind format. So that's how it was created to really help primarily female coaches and consultants get more comfortable be in community, know they're not alone. So like you said, when they get frustrated because they think it's them, we can say, no, no, no, it's the platform. No, no, no, it's the, the, it's the funnel. No, no, no, it's. Or yes, you know what, you're stopping yourself. So that's, that's what was built. And. Well, we have two levels. We have an essential level, which is, you know, all about community. And yes, there's eyes from Tammy and I on the business. And Tammy, by the way, has 40 years of marketing and business development as well, although all of it has been in the entrepreneurial space. So she really does understand strategy. She understands strategy better than I understand the tech, the tactical part of it. Right. And then we have a, a elite model, you know, elite membership where you get additional one on ones. Nice. But it all starts in onboarding because it is not a one size fits all and we want to be able to channel you into the right direction. So one of the things that we do include whether you're at the elite or whether you're at the essential, is we include an extensive kind of where are you? Where do you want to go? Why are you doing this and why are you not doing this conversation? So we can create a path that works for them.

Nice. I love that. So good.

Thank you.

So good. Well, it's been so great to have you here. Thank you so much for your time. And I can't wait till we get to sit down and have dinner again together in person. Our next event that we'll be at together. But so in the meantime, we want to keep in touch with you. Where's the best time, where's the best place to keep up with what you're doing and follow you.

You're gonna have my name right on.

Yes.

Somewhere. So here's the beautiful thing about a name like Abigail Tiefenthaler. There is only one of me. I am on LinkedIn, I am on Facebook. It. I am on Instagram. But it'll take a while for me to get back to you. So Facebook and LinkedIn and savvy sales strategy.com is our website. You can always reach us there. I think we actually even have contact information, you know, in, in all of those. On all of those platforms.

Yes. And we'll link all that up in our show notes and because Tiefen Taller is not the easiest name to spell, but once you see it, you'll be like, oh, yeah, of course.

So, yeah, it was a test. On the second date, my husband was like, can you spell my name? And I. I think I failed. I can't remember. Because you just, like, wanted to go Te. E. You know, like, you. You missed some of the. You missed some of the letters or something. I don't remember. It was 36 years ago, so. A long time ago.

Well, at least you know how to spell it now. That's all that's.

I do. I do. And my kids learned. You know, we have two daughters that are now adults, and they learned how to spell it fine. So I guess if you're raised with it, it's a whole lot easier than when you're coming to it at age 28, right? You know?

Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Oh, Abigail, it's so good to see you. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you.

And thanks for having me, Melissa. I really appreciate it.

It's great to have you. We'll see you very soon, okay?