The Psychology of Elite Athletes and High Achievers with Brian Miles

Welcome back to the show, everybody. I have Brian Miles with us today. He is the Major League Mental Performance Coach for the Cleveland Guardians. He's going into his 10th season with the organization and fifth with the major League team. In his role at the Guardians, Brian's Brian assists players and staff of the organization and continued development to enhance performance and mental and emotional development. Prior to joining the Guardians, Brian worked for the United States army as part of the Comprehensive Soldier and Family Fitness program both at Fort Bliss and Fort Drum. Brian has been consulting with Google since 2020 and has supported other teams such as NASA, Weaver Leather Company, Future Fitness and ReliaQuest to further understand the brain body connection. Brian is constantly wondering about human potential and his goal is to help high performers be incredibly deliberate with their intent, habits, decision making and belief that they can train their mind to be the best version of themselves. Brian received his Bachelor Bachelor of Arts in Psychology from Montclair State University, New Jersey, where he played four years of college soccer. He then received his Master of Education in Psychology Athletic Counseling from Springfield College, Massachusetts, along with Certificate of Advanced Graduate Study in Clinical Mental Health. Brian is a Certified Mental Performance Consultant through the association of Applied Sports Psychology. Brian resides in North Ridgeville, Ohio with his wife Megan, daughter Marlo and son Mac. With that being said, Brian, how you doing today?

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. Colin, man, when you read the bio out loud, it's like, man, it's actually pretty, pretty long there. So, you know, I could probably tend to shorten it up there a little bit. But I appreciate you having me on. I'm super excited to connect with you and get a chance to chat.

No, absolutely. And I do make it a point. I want to get everybody's bios on there because, you know, I mean, you have an incredible list of credentials and you know, it's an honor privilege for me to speak with you. So I just want to make sure I highlight your credentials. Everyone know that can know who don't know you that you're legit. Yeah. So appreciate you coming on. I think one thing I actually want to touch on real quick is I am very fascinated with people who have like military backgrounds or have worked in military spaces. So one question I have for you with that is it's a different type of training with the military. It's a little bit different than athletics because it is life or death. How do you maybe put that into your protocols when you're training for life or death situations? Because I don't think there's much more pressure than dealing with life or death.

Yeah, I mean, I, as someone who didn't have like an actual military background, it was, it was a unique space to, to come into. I think there's some major humility going into, into an environment like that with, with those types of individuals and you know, a lot of respect for what our soldiers do. I, I think like, I, I learned a lot from them about how to train for that. You know, it's again, something that we just, we just don. You've, you've been there and obviously I have not. So I think recognizing that there's this, you're never going to be able to replicate the stress of combat or whatever it is that a soldier might be doing. But for a lot of the folks that we were working with, they did experience high levels of stress, whether it was going for some sort of selection assessment to, to be in Special Forces, to go to Ranger school, Air assault, like, whatever it is. And so we, we really tried to help replicate some of the cognitive stress they might be experiencing. And so we found some unique ways to do that. You know, we, we developed some, you know, mental fitness obstacle courses where again, like, you're not replicating the actual physical stress that they're going to experience, whether it's in combat or whether it's, you know, in, in the training of selection that they're going to be doing. But you throw, you throw a dude on with like, you know, 45 pound vest and you do 15 burpees, they're pretty damn smoked, you know, and then, and then, and then you start to engage with like the cognitive tasks that we want them to do. And you know, and, and the feedback you get from that is like, man, like my decision making is a little off. My concentration's a little, I'm having, I'm having a hard time deciphering information or whatever it might be, which is obviously very important in whatever it is that they're going to go do, whether when they deploy or they're going to go to some school or try to do something different. So we, you know, then it's the opportunity for us to talk about some of the skills that we can utilize to help regain control of both our physiology, gain control of our emotions, our thoughts in those moments, how to slow things down, you know, which is funny because it's, it's very similar stuff that we talk about in baseball, like, how do you slow things down? You know, and so we've been really lucky to see how that works out. And again, the military program continues to Grow. We continue to, we continue to invest in our soldiers through mental performance programs. Our special forces groups have mental performance individuals integrated into their performance team. So it's, it's really awesome to see how much, you know, these individuals are getting services similar to what professional athletes get as well.

What an awesome transition into what are some of those skills that you can use to enhance performance under pressure moments, slow things down and be able to make your normal decision making process.

Yeah. So, you know, I'm sure and I, you know, I've seen a bunch of people already talk about it on, on your, on your podcast, but I mean breath and breathing, super important and it's so interesting. We don't oftentimes think about it, right? Like we don't ever think about our breathing. And I think a lot of times while when it becomes conscious and we start to understand how we're breathing, the benefits of it, I think you start to, to see what, what maybe might be going right, what might be going wrong. I mean, some of the first things that we talk about is just like how do you breathe right now? So to start off with that, a lot of times it is your hand on your chest and hand on your stomach, like your belly area and just like taking a couple of deep breaths. And what you start to notice is that that top hand around your chest oftentimes is moving out further than your bottom hand. And when we think about deep diaphragmatic belly breathing, you know, it's really about trying to get that bottom hand to move out further and training yourself to be able to do that in moments of stress. And again, this is like for real life stuff too, right? I'm gonna go take a test, I'm gonna go to an interview, I'm gonna go give a big speech, whatever it is, or it's like, hey, you know, it's, it's a big inning. I'm on deck right now and I wanna, you know, I wanna take a chance to just sort of slow down. It's control, like starting to get more control over your physiology by engaging in some deep diaphragmatic breathing, getting that bot. And the fascinating thing about this is that that's the way we were meant to breathe. So you know, I meant, you know, you mentioned in the bio I have a four and a two year old, so I've, I've been through the baby phase. And when you watch a baby, like a really small baby, and you see them, whether they're sleeping or, you know, whatever, they're getting changed and you watch the way they breathe, I mean, their entire belly is just like, that's where the breath is coming from. And it's so interesting to watch as adults, as we get older, we start to cut our breath off. And, you know, you. You ask some athletes, like, hey, take a big, deep breath for me. And all of a sudden they go. That is this big shoulder shrug, you know, and they're just. They're missing out on so many benefits of what the breath does. So, I mean, again, I. I think that's a huge one in terms of, like, how to slow things down. I also. I also will say, like, slowing things down for professional athletes, I think, especially in the world of baseball, is about being able to let go of the past and not being fixated on the future. So being in the present moment is really important. And I think that there are aspects of thinking that can pull people into the future and definitely pull people into the past. And giving a space for somebody to do that is really important as well. Um, there's this really cool concept in golf about, like, the think box and play box. And, you know, the think box gives you the opportunity to think, right? It's like, I'm going to think about how this guy might pitch me or what's going, you know, what happened my last at bat? Like, you're. You're giving yourself that space to really be in your head and work through what you want to do. We talk about, like, there's a decision line, right? When you choose to step over that decision line, you are stepping into the playbox. And it's kind of awesome for us, we actually have a box that our hitters hit in, right? So it's like you step into the batter's box and you're committed to that plan. Like, full commitment. I am committed to that plan. I'm gonna do this. And there's part of it about being disciplined enough to say, hey, like, I've lost control of this at bat. I'm overthinking things. Like, I. It's. It's. I'm starting to lose it. I'm. I'm like, I'm uncomfortable in this situation. And then, you know, for us in baseball, you can call timeout, you can step out of the box, you can step back over the decision line, into the think box, and be like, okay, let's reset. Let's replan what we want to do here, and then choose to step into. Over the decision line, back into the. Into the play box. So there's little things like that that I think are really helpful. Again, you know, baseball is a little bit slower than some of the other sports out there. So there's a chance for guys to, you know, step off the rubber. If they're a pitcher and, you know, take their hat off and take a deep breath, they can look off into the distance and sort of find some sort of, like, visual cue. You can look at the left field foul pole, because there's always a left field foul pole. If you're in the batter's box, you can release your batting gloves, like untighten them and sort of release the tension of that last pitch and then tighten them back up to kind of cue you into what you want to do. There's a lot of different unique ways to doing it. I'll say, man. Everyone's individual. I know a lot of people on here have talked about that. Everyone's an individual performer. And the coolest thing about our job is we get to build relationships with. With individuals and help them do what works for them. And, and that's probably one of the coolest parts of the job is you get to build relationships with these incredible performers and, and help be a very small part of that journey that they're on.

So there, there's so much there that I want to unpack, and so I'm going to try and be strategic in it. I want to talk on the breathing from the belly thing, because I've actually used that in practice with injuries as well. So not even just from like a refocus standpoint, but also, you know, part of my story is, you know, broken a ton of bones, ton of surgeries, tore a bunch of ligaments. It got to a point in my own career when I would work with, you know, physical therapists, you know, chiropractors, other medical professionals. A lot of it was, you know, learning how to breathe, too, through the belly and how that can release pain, you know, from specific, you know, body parts. So I think that's really fascinating when we talk about breathing, because that's like the thousandth time I've heard about breathing through the belly, but I've heard it in so many different avenues. So I think that's really cool. Now my next question is when it comes to being able to super hyper focus on the present moment, I think that's a superpower. I think it's super hard to attain. But if you can do it, it's a performance enhancer. So other than maybe breath work or. And, you know, I think some of those cues are really good too. Um, I've heard that in the past. But how can you really train yourself to let go of the past, not worry about the future and be locked in on the, you know, this pitch, you know, this at bat this day.

Uh, a great. So yes, it's, it's difficult to be in the present moment. I couldn't agree more. I do believe it's a superpower. And so I think a huge part of that is really recognizing what's actually in your control and what's not. So it's fascinating like when you think about maybe what are our most precious resources and commodities are as human beings. Again, this is my personal opinion, but I believe that energy and focus, or energy and attention are probably some of the most precious resources and commodities we have. And what's wild is we just nowadays are just like willy nilly about what we give them out to and who we give them out to. And I think that the highest of performers are incredibly selfish with their attention and very selfish with their energy. And the reason that they are is that they're very in tune with the things that they can touch, manage, influence and control. And once you become fixated on that, maybe even to a point, obsessive, or with the idea of like, what can I touch, manage, influence and control what's within my three foot world right here? Like, what are the things that I can actually influence? Those are the things you gave your energy to. Those are the things you give your effort to. Those are the things you give your intent to. Those are the things you give your attention to. And when you start to do that, you find yourself being in the present moment way more. Because you recognize that you can't change the past and you can't predict the future, but you can influence right here, right now. There's a reason that people say be where your feet are, because it's actually where you are. And so again, it's. It takes deliberate intent to be able to do it. It takes effort to be able to like truly put in what can I control? And I think that that's a great way to go about that process. Whether it's writing down, you know, whatever your task is for the day, like, what are all the things that I can actually influence in this? What are the things I control, what are the things that I don't and accepting part of that and being able to move on, whether it's just like a larger performance domain, you're jotting down the things that you can control and the things that you can't and allowing yourself to. You Know, put your energy and put your effort, intent, and your attention into the things that you can control. It's, you know, for me, it's the. The phrase control the controllables. Slightly overused in the world of metal performance. I'm not gonna lie. It feels like it's lost its guster a little bit, you know, just cliche at this point. If you have a tangible action or task for how you plan to control those things and recognize that there's this whole other world of influence, you know, if you can influence some of the things that you can't control, if you can use your influence on the things you can control to help you handle some of the things that you can't control, that's where, like, the highest performers make those gains on average performers is they recognize. Yeah, there's a ton of crap that I can't control for sure, but here's a lot of the stuff that I can influence. And utilizing influence to move themselves slightly forward, you know, that I feel like is a. It's like that's kind of where that superpower part comes in, is. It's not. It's just not black and white of control and not control. There's a gray space in there where I think the highest performers play around in and muddle in a little bit that allows them to be great. And, you know, it's. It's way easier said than done. Not even going to pretend. But there is a. There's a unique sense of freedom when you. When you start kind of just focusing on the things that you can influence, things you can touch, manage, control, and being able to let go of those other things, man, it just. It saves your energy and focus. It saves your energy and attention to the things that matter. And it's not just about things. It's about people, too. I can't emphasize that enough. Giving your energy and attention to people. They better be people that move the needle. They better be people that fill your cup. They better be people that are joy multipliers and not joy thieves. You know, there's. There's just so much that goes into the people we surround ourselves with, not just the things we surround ourselves with.

You're talking about a number of different things that I have, like, in my core belief system. It fires me up. I want to take a step back on something I'm very curious about. You talked about being obsessive, and I'm big on learning about obsessive. What drives human behavior? What drives us to actually change our actions? Can everyone become obsessive? In their sport. Can you train obsessive? And so my question is, can you take something that you're not obsessed with, but you have a natural skill at and become obsessed to enhance your ability, or is that something that's natural? Tough question.

I mean, the Carol Dweck part of me about growth and fixed mindset would say it's not natural that it, like you can develop obviously, like things within your, like you said, belief system. It's like I'm going to choose to have this belief that I can, whatever. We're using the word obsession right now. But I can get better at X, Y and Z. I provide the action to do that, then I see the result and then it influences my behavior, my belief further, which obviously just creates that cycle of belief, action, result, and so on and so forth. But like the obsession part of it, like what you and I are maybe leaning into a little bit, obsession is just around like it's, it's just a shade off from discipline. Let's not pretend like it's not. You know, we could probably interchange those words. I'm sure, like a lot of people would be like, I'd much rather use the word discipline and obsession. But maybe you're obsessed with discipline. I don't know. It's, it's, it's about, I think more like when people are obsessed with stuff in, in a very, in a healthy way. I just want to say that out loud in a healthy way. Like they're totally cool with putting off the satisfaction of whatever that thing is, knowing that in the long term they're going to get what they want. And any disciplined person will tell you that, like, I'll sacrifice in the short term for a long term gain all day. Like, I'm very comfortable working behind the scenes, never getting credit, never getting any accolades or anything like that. Because like, I'm totally cool with it not being about me. And I just want to move the needle and go on. And like those are the types of people I think when you, when you see them and you're around them, it's so funny because like there, there's an aura about them, but it's, it's actually not about them. Like they never make it about themselves. There's like such a lack of ego there that is just, it makes you, again, it makes you want to be around them more. It makes you want to work with them. It makes you want to be around them because they make everyone around them better. That's like that healthy obsession. It is, it's like, and again, I, like, some people have that with the gym. Some people have that with like, whatever. I'm, I'm healthfully obsessed with like the human potential. That's, that is it. I, I love it. Like, I, I will, I will talk to anyone about it. I, you know, I, I, that's why I love hanging out with other mental performance coaches. I'm like, what are you doing differently? Like, why, like, why do you, like, how do you describe this? What does that look like? We all have our own stories and it's like it's a detriment to our field when it's said and done only one way, you know, and so learning from other people, especially, I mean, the people you've had on here already. Um, I mean, Alex Auerbach, like, his stuff on Twitter is like, fascinating. I love it. He ties so much science into, like, what he does. Duncan Simpson, Brett McCabe, like, their information of, like, how they do their work. Duncan, stuff on leadership. Brett, stuff on, like, how he tangibly does the skills in golf. It's fascinating. And it's like, that makes all of us better. The people that are obsessed are like, not jealous by that. They're like, holy crap, I want to be around this guy. Like, he's gonna make me better. Like, that matters to me, you know? And so that's how I see obsession play out. It's. Can you find somebody who, when you are with them, will genuinely make you better? And guess what? When you get better, that person's gonna be like, stoked about it, not jealous.

I think a lot of this ties into. You said, fill your cup and I saw you tweet about it today. When it comes to, again, going back to obsessed people who more often than not end up being extremely elite performers, how do you measure how you fill your cup? How are you measuring if you're putting enough work in, if you're putting enough rest in, enough recovery and enough true, like, true rest, like actually taking like a day or a week off. Like, how do you actually measure that and what is attainable to pass on to others?

Yeah, I mean, I, I, like, I, I tweet all the time that there's like, there's no hack to high performance, right? Like, that's like, that's kind of my, my thing. It's there's just like, there isn't, there's no, there's no quick solution. There's no pill. There's no pill you can take. There's no 10 minute workout, whatever that's going to like, get you to where you want to go. It's going to come down to hard work, it's going to come down to discipline, so on and so forth. So, like, you know, the thing that I tweeted today was just like that time is a non renewable resource. Every single day, right? 24 hours, 1,440 minutes, you know, 86,400 seconds. So again, coming back to like resource and commodity, right? Time is like, we need to be selfish with it. We need to be selfish with this, like, nonrenewable resource. I mean, every single day you get that much time, and then the next day you get that much time too. And so for some of the things that we talked about, it's just like, do things that fill your cup, do things that challenge yourself, do fun things, try new things. And then again, it's like it always comes back to like, are you growing yourself? But are you bettering those around you? And like, that's really important. So, I mean, what that looks like. Listen, I've seen wildly disciplined people who are super focused on their job and their role of whatever it is, but they're really good about hunting the good stuff and like being and showing gratitude, right? And optimism and. And like, people think that this idea of like, gratitude and optimism is like this very grandiose thing that you must do, but in reality it's actually like hunting the good stuff again. While negativity is incredibly contagious, gratitude and optimism is way more contagious. It's just that we don't get a chance to experience that a lot because of the negativity bias. And so negativity is just around us all the time, right? Like the negativity bias plays out in front of us all the time in which we wait, see, and remember the negative things, you know, more than the positive things, which it makes sense, right? Like, people get frustrated by it, but in reality, it's biology. Like, this was created, negativity bias was created as a survival like technique, right? It was like 17,000 years ago. I go out for my, my forage or my hunt with my cavemen and cave women friends, right? And you see a rustling in the bush and out pops the saber tooth tiger, right? So everyone runs away scared. And what do they do when they get back to the village? They all talk about it. They're like, whoa, dude. Okay, so if there's a wrestling in the bush, we gotta remember, like, scary, right? Like death is there for us. And so we remember that, right? And it's like we remember it More than all these other things because it's survival. Well, fast forward to 17,000 years to today. And you know what? That rustling the bush isn't there with the saber tooth tiger. But that bias, that negativity bias is still there. That's why phrases like hump the good stuff or seek the silver lining, they have verbs in the front of them, right? Because you need to do something. Like, hunt is a verb, Seek is a verb. You have to seek it out. You have to hunt for the good to fight the negativity bias. And so, you know, you talk about filling your cup up. It's like hunting the good stuff is something you can do by yourself, right? You can have, you can have a good stuff journal, whatever it is. You jot down one or two, three good things that happened to you today. It doesn't have to be crazy. It has to be like, I had a great cup of coffee this morning. I hit all green lights on the way to work. You write down what those good things are, and then you reflect on them, like, how can I get more of this good stuff tomorrow? Like, what does this good stuff mean to me? And then we talk about you want to better yourself and other people. So then, like, how do you make that contagious? Well, if you're like me, who's got kids or, or a wife, you know, every single night, let me tell you, like, one of the best things, literally one of the best things that I get to experience every single day is putting my daughter to bed. 4 year old. Her name's Marlo. And I get to ask Marlo what her favorite part of the day was. And she gets to tell me. And let me tell you, like, for all the dads out there, parents, whatever it is, like, most of the time, most of the time, she'll, she'll drop something in there about like, you know, I got to, we got to go to the park together. We got to spend time like it was. It's always something with our family. You know, sometimes it's like, I got a doll or play with a friend, whatever. But, and, but it's always. Then she asked me what my favorite part of the day is, right? A four year old. But like, we've created this tradition or habit or routine in which we share our good stuff. And so instead of asking your kids how their day at school was when they get home, it's asking your kids, like, hey, like, what's one good thing that happened today at school? Instead of asking your significant other, how was your day when they get home from work in which they want to unload on you about all the bad stuff that happened. It's. Hey, at dinner. What we're gonna do instead is we're gonna talk about two good things that happened to us today. Right? Like it changes the dynamic of the relationship. It changes the dynamic of the conversation. It just like I'm, I am like I'm telling you. I hate the phrase just like changes lives, but it does, it, it does. And it changes you, I'm telling you. And it's like if you, if you create that type of habit, it's unbelievable. That's, that's how you fill your cup every day. Again, don't get me wrong, you should still do stuff that like you, whatever, go for walks outside, all those things. For me it's about hunting the good stuff. It's about fighting the negativity bias. And like it's about, it's about two minutes with a four year old putting them to bed every night. Like that, that for me is like what, what moves the needle every single day. Like you talk about filling a cup up. Like fill that to the top for me.

It's incredible. Cuz, you know, as a father of a two and a half year old girl, I have another girl on the way.

Nice.

Yeah, that hits home for me because I love putting my daughter to sleep or at least getting to say goodnight, give her a kiss now. Can't have the full conversation with her yet about.

Not yet. Yeah, you're right. It'll get there.

But it'll get there. So that's, that's really cool. And that hit home with me. Something that we continue to talk about is like the choosing gratitude, the positive psychology of it. And you did, you're talking about the negativity bias. My question is how much negativity though can actually propel you forward. Can you use negativity to enhance your performance? And then where do you find that balance between positive and negative? And then I'll have another question after this kind of on it goes back to filling the cup. But how much is just like brute force? Get work done.

Yeah, you know, I, I'm a little, I don't know, I, I try not to even use the word negative and positive. It's just like, hey, is that, is that effective or productive for you or is that ineffective or counterproductive for you? Right. I'm sure we've all met the athlete who just like talks trash to themselves and they're exceptional because they need that type of whatever. We'll Call it motivation, talk, whatever it might be. Like, that works for them. And so it's really about finding what's. What's productive for you, what's effective, what works for you that will drive you. Right? Is it reading all the, the, the comments on, you know, Twitter about how much you stink or suck or whatever it might be? Maybe, maybe that's the thing that drives you, right? And again, it's like, what are the like. Because I mean, productive ties into how we think. Productive ties into our emotions, productive ties into our physiology, Productive ties into our energy activation. Like how energy do. It's like you have to understand what works for you. Again, this goes back to the individuality part of it. It's just like, you know, what, what, what does right look like for you? And you know that that goes into our preparation to like, you know, the way that we're thinking about our performance, to how we reflect on our performance. Whatever it is, there's a productive, effective level for each individual. It's going to vary for everyone. So, you know, again, it's, it's. I don't know. I'm. I'm a little anti, like, positive selft talk versus negative selft talk. It's like, what works for you, bro? Like, what's effective? That's like, that's what it is. You know, you want to be in tune with what you're talking to yourself about and how you, how you talk to yourself. Roger that. If it's moving you forward and propelling you in the right direction and it's creating emotions that are effective for you to go out there and kick butt, and those emotions are driving physiology to put you in a good spot. Say what you got to say. Rock and roll. You know, and there's part of it too, where it's like you got to do the dirty work and figure out what works for you. And the fact of the matter is, is most people don't want to do their own dirty work for themselves. And so they're, they just leave up the chance, you know, I would much rather sit in some uncomfortableness and be a little bit like a bunch of failure in my face and adversity to figure out what right looks like so that I'm able to prepare myself in a way that will set me up for success over the long run.

How much does our internal dialogue play into this? Because I have a hypothesis, excuse me, that so much of our discontent in the world comes from our lack of awareness and giving meaning to words, phrases, ideologies. We say a Lot of things. We have a lot of cliches, but I feel like we don't put meaning behind them. And I believe a caveat to that is then when we're looking at what we want to achieve in this world, we don't have the ability to look at what we're willing to commit to because we don't define anything. So how much does our internal dialogue contribute to that?

I mean, I'll just outright say this isn't entirely my opinion. Okay. So like, I'll just put that out there. It's like, this is my opinion. But like the, like, I, I mean, I said this before. It's like the whole positive self talk thing, I just, like, I don't, I just don't feel like it plays at the highest level. What? So like, what plays is what can I fall back on that's real? Like, that. That for me is it. And that's why even like the, the word confidence, like, I despise it. I do. It's over saturated, overplayed in our world of mental performance. And it's like, it's so based on feelings. It is. It's like, if. So, like, right? If you want to ask somebody how confident they are, right? You, like, how are you feeling today? Like, how confident are you? Right? And then they just immediately drop you an emotion about how they feel. And in the grand scheme of things, at the highest level, nobody gives a crap about how you feel at all. You still have to go out there and execute. So, like, I would much rather be convicted in like, my competence, right? My efficacy, which is funny because that's like where confidence came from was like self efficacy and understanding. Like my capacity to execute a task, right?

And.

And so it's like competence is built on time. It's built on a foundation. Like, how many hours did I spend in the gym? How many swings did I take this off season? How much time did I take to develop my mental game this off season? All of these things I can measure, right? Like, I can, I can measure that. I was. I put in more hours than anybody, right? That is a foundation of competence, and that is something that, like, I will choose right choice to be convicted in. I'll take somebody who's convicted in their competence all day. All day. Because when things get hard, what do you fall back on? You fall back onto stuff that's real, right? And it gets real sketchy and real tricky when you try to fall back on something that's not real because you didn't put the work in. You didn't build the foundation of competence out there. So you're going to just try to make it up in your head and hope it works out, when in reality you don't have it. There's the best players, they know exactly what they can fall back on because it's real, it's tangible, it's firm, it's hard, it's a foundation. And like, that's what works for them. That like they know it's there because they put the work in. And so, you know, and, and the awesome thing too is it doesn't fluctuate, right? It doesn't like come and go. No, it's there, it's a foundation, it's firm, like you can lean on it, it can hold weight. It can hold the weight of your ups and downs of the sport. Because that's sports. There's other people involved. It's not easy. Like it can hold the weight of that because it's real. And you know, that's like, again, listen, I'm sure there's lots of people out there in the space of world of mental performance that disagree with that, but it's just, again, it's like it just, it could be so flip floppy or wishy washy sometimes when you ask, like just about how they're feeling. But the fact of the matter is, is that these individuals still have to go out there and compete, right? They still have to go out there and play. So like we're giving far too much to how they feel at that moment. When in reality it's like, all right, well what have you done to get yourself here? Oh, well, I can recall that, like that's real, that that matters, you know, not just like this fleeting feeling of like, what's going on right now.

So I gotta say that's probably one of my favorite, for lack of a better term, rants that have gone on. So whoever's listening, that was the rant. Go back re listen. That was beautiful. The last, whatever, three to five minutes. Listen to that. It was pure gold. Because as I find myself down this journey, the more people I talk to, the more I find what you just said to be a universal truth in high performers. It's how competent am I? Did I put the work in and do I have the cognitive recognition of the work that I put in? And every time I hear that, it further. And it's probably my own confirmation bias, but it further pushes what works for me. You know, I can't shout affirmations that aren't true to build like, you Said confidence. When I find myself most, most confident in a space, it's because I know I've been in that space, I've lived that situation and I know I've done it over and over again. So is there a way to continue to put that in perspective for yourself? Like when you're in those moments and you know that self doubt creeps in. I've heard Novak Djokovic talk about this all the time, but like when that self doubt creeps in, everyone gets nervous. It's. How do you effectively reflect on what you've done?

Yeah, I mean I, I mean doubt is real, right? It's like, which is funny, like the, the research around like self efficacy is, is the idea of like how certain am I about my capacity to execute a task? And so it's like if I'm 80% certain I can do something, what's the other 20%? Well, it's, it's doubt, right? And so it's the idea of training. This is like trying to increase your, your percentage of certainty and decrease your percentage of doubt, right? And like, I mean I'll take 80, 20 all day, you know, for like doing some stuff and I, you know, and part of it's just that part of it is that part of it is also that the more that you spend time in that, like in that space, right, of high performance, of uncomfortable, whatever you want to call it, it's, it helps you expand this idea of like your comfort zone, right? And like working on the edge of capacity. Somebody, one of my buddies was telling me that he watched Free Soul for the first time. And like I remember, I remember, I remember back, it was like 2017 or 18 when I watched Free Soul for the first time. And I was the same way, right? My hands are all sweaty. I'm like this dude's climbing like El Cap, like with no ropes or anything like that. But Alex Honnold says this awesome thing in the movie about, you know, where he's like, everyone's telling me I'm crazy, that like, you know, how can I do this stuff? And, and he talks about that like he's, he's basically created like he's expanded his comfort zone to where like for us what we see is nuts, right? Like that somebody's doing this. But for him, he's done it so much and he's trained so much and he's prepared himself so much mentally, physically, all those things that this is actually in his comfort zone of doing this, right? Or maybe it's like right there on the edge of his comfort zone. But it's like, so interesting because, like, somebody like us who's watching it is like, this is crazy. There's no way that anyone can do this. But for him, he. He's literally expanded his comfort zone to make this work for him by. By the training, by doing it so much. And I think that anyone that puts themselves in a space of high performance, right, Whether it's baseball. So it's like, yeah, hitting a 100 mile per hour ball, which is circular, with a circular bat is. It's. It's hard. It's really hard to do it. And I think anyone that, like, comes and watches baseball up close and realizes actually how fast 100 miles per hour is and like, you know the sound of it and the ball moving and stuff, you're like, how the hell do these guys even do this? How do they even make contact with it, right? And then. But then you. But then, you know, for someone like me who's there every day and I watch how these guys train, and I watch the amount of times they put themselves and the amount of times that their eyes see the ball and the amount of times that, you know, they're getting feedback and things like that, it's like, oh, yeah, it makes sense why they do that. It makes sense how they're able to do these incredible feats. Like, it make. It makes sense, right? It makes sense why you're the 1%. It does when you. When you watch somebody do it. And the fact is, a lot of times we just don't. We don't get to see the. The work behind it all. We just see the end product on the field, and a lot of people just think that they're gifted or whatever, but it's like, you know, when you. When you watch somebody work, you can learn a lot about them. And most of the dudes that you see on TV are there because of what they do when they're not on tv.

Incredible. Absolutely incredible. So what drives, you know, the human behavior? Whether you're a high school athlete, a college athlete, you're a pro, you're trying to become, you know, an all star, you're trying to become an mvp. What drives the behavior to get to the next step? Because you're describing so many things, and it's like, we have so many different playbooks, and yet only some people actually willing to do it. So it's like, how do we drive that in more people? Or will it always just be. There's this 0.0001% that do it because there's only so few that can commit to it.

That's a great question. It might be like a multi layered answer. So I do think that, like, the. More. I mean, again, there's some really great books out there. I mentioned earlier, but like, Carol Dweck has like growth minds. Her growth Mindset book out there, or it's called Mindset, but it's about growth and fixed mindset. And as a parent, I love it, right, Because I read it and most of her research is on like school age children. And so my wife and I at home, right, it's, it's real easy to tell a four year old when she comes and she does her coloring. She's like, oh my God, you're so good at coloring. Great job. Or you're so smart. Awesome. Like, oh, you're the best, right? Like, just what we do to our kids. And it like, took this, like, conscious effort. Like, my wife and I talked about it where I was like, babe, we're gonna, we're gonna praise Marlo for her work. We're gonna praise her on the effort that she puts in. We're gonna praise her on like the feedback, whatever it might be, right? We're gonna, that's what we're gonna praise. And so it takes like, it like legitimately takes effort to think about it. As I go over and I see her coloring Minnie, and she like, low key, is actually really good at coloring. She can like give the lines and everything. It's like, awesome. And I'm like, like Mars. Like, I've, I've been seeing you working so much harder on being in the lines. And it's like I said, babe, it's, it's working out. Like, look how beautiful this picture is because you've been working so hard. Like, okay, so that is the microcosm of my household. And it's like, well, okay, so I'm raising a daughter now who recognizes that hard work is the way to mastery, right? She recognizes that feedback is the way to getting better at something. She recognizes that lifting other people up is the way to get better at this. That for me is, is a small microcosm of like, how we can create more individuals who potentially, like, have the drive to want to be the best at what they're doing. I do think, right, that it's like, it's easy to say that. No, I think that's the way to start it.

I don't mean to cut you off, but I try and do that in my household to love Carol Dweck's work. And like, I say to, you know, my wife, I say to, like, my in laws, my parents, like, reward the work. I'm like, guys, I know it's so easy to walk and say, oh, you're so cute. You're so great. I'm like, I want to reward the work because. And to give my own little personal testimony. I grew up with a really high natural intelligence level. I. I did. And I got so used to winning spelling bee competitions, people telling me how smart, you know, being in student advanced learning, winning math competitions. But then it got to a point where I started picking lesser challenges because I wanted that outcome reward. And I wasn't actually elevating myself, putting myself in higher rooms and challenging myself because I didn't want to feel that rejection. And so that's why, like, I know from my own personal testimony and where I had to retrain myself to be like, no, I got to go up a level. I got to challenge myself. I got to push myself. And it was really hard to retrain myself. So that's why I really wanted to highlight that because there's so much depth and truth to what you're saying and to just give another vote of confidence there.

It's. It's so. It's like the challenging of ourselves, right? We're not just, like, seeking the reward. The other part, I mean, this, I truly firmly believe this, is that, like, people just are wicked uncomfortable getting feedback. They are. It. I. I remember it like it was yesterday, but, like, my. My first year in the military, working for the army, we got, like. So we got. We did a ton of teaching, like, ton of teaching. And every time we taught, we got feedback. Every time. Whether. So it was from our peers. We would get written feedback from the soldiers that we were teaching. We would get feedback from, like, experts of teaching in our company that we worked for. We had to record ourselves and provide feedback to ourselves, watching ourselves, which is like, the cringiest thing in the world. You name it, we got feedback. And it was like, I just remember that visceral feeling of getting it the first few times, right? You get the pit in your stomach, the immediate defensiveness. You want to push back, you want to argue. And it was, like, funny that I almost got it so much that I just started, like, I guess kind of back to. It was like, sickly loving it a little bit. So, like, one of my buddies would give me feedback. He's like, weird. Like, we're friends. He would give me feedback halfway through a teaching, and I Would, like, we'd all go to lunch and I'd come back and, like, the feedback you give me, like, it was, like, my goal. I'm like, I'm going to put this into action right now. I'm gonna do it right now. And I, like, started kind of loving that odd feeling of, like, the pit in my stomach. I started loving the, like, this is. I. I'm, like, mad that they're giving me this feedback, but, like, I'm excited to go. And you, like, you know, it's like I was, like, playing with these emotions that I was experiencing and playing with this physiology. And then it's like, I started to realize that, like, the coolest stuff happens after you have a pit in your stomach. The coolest stuff happens after you're super uncomfortable. Like, somebody asked me one time what the coolest part of my job was. And, like, while I wanted to say, like, all these awesome stadiums you go to and you travel over the place, I said the coolest thing about my job is that I'm wildly uncomfortable every single day going to my job. And they're like, what? I'm like, yeah, I genuinely am a little uncomfortable every single day. Every day. My entire job is about maintaining relationships and fostering them and doing all these other things. I am, like, slightly uncomfortable each day. Each. Each day just, like. Like, a little uncomfortable about what's going to happen. You know, am I gonna be able to bring it today? Like, do I have, like, if somebody asked me, whatever. I'm, like, uncomfortable. I sickly, weirdly, obsessively, whatever you want to call it, love that. I think that's a huge part of it. I think that, like, the best people in the world just, like, sneakily love being unsure. And. And. And then you know what they do? They just do it anyway. And that's, like, the coolest part. They just do it anyway. We're gonna do it anyway. Let's go. Let's see what happens. And if I fail, cool, I'm gonna do it again tomorrow. Because I'm gonna be, like, extra uncomfortable tomorrow. Cause I failed, but I'm gonna do it anyway.

I want to say, like, again, another one of my hypotheses is, like, elite athletes, athletes who conquer just incredible feats are less obsessed with, like, the outcome, but obsessed with that discomfort aspect. Like, they just thrive in that, you know, uncomfortable feeling, that discomfort, and they just persevere through it. It's like they seek it out, it hits them, and they just go through it. Is. Am I wrong there?

I mean, Again, I can't speak for other people but like it seems like that, I mean it's a good hypothesis. It seems like, yeah, they're just again, I think what, what happens and you kind of mentioned a little bit like your math story is that we get in this cycle, right? Of like when, when you're told that you're whatever, fill in the blank, right? You're told you're not supposed to X, Y and Z. You are not a math person. So if I'm told I'm not a math person, that's the belief that people have about me, then of course I'm not going to put myself in a situation where I'm going to have to use math, I'm going to take the easy class or whatever it is. And then that like it just, that's the action. And then the result is that, right, you never get better at math. So it just confirms the belief that is there. It's like that, that's like the self fulfilling prophecy of whatever. Fill in the blank of how to get good at stuff, how to be bad stuff, whatever. But that's the belief process. And so yeah, like if, if somebody tells you the first time that you're like freaking out before you're going to go give a talk in front of 100 people, like, yeah, it's probably because you're like not ready or like maybe you shouldn't do this, whatever it is, and then you don't do it, then it just confirms that belief. But what's awesome is that if you're scared and you go and give this talk in front of a hundred people and you love it and it's amazing and the talk was great. Guess what? The next time you go to give a talk in front of 100 people, you're going to feel the exact same way. Because that shit's scary. Let's be real, okay? It is, it's scary. It's scary to talk in front of people, right? And so, but you go and do it again and then again and again. And it's like I gave a talk to a middle school the other day. There were 700, 700 sixth and seventh graders, okay? I've talked to 200 sergeant majors in the military, I've talked to professional athletes, whatever. I have never been more scared standing in a gymnasium than with 700 of these little kids who I'm like, they're not gonna think my jokes are funny. They're gonna like whatever, you know, like just all these things, right? And I was like, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is cr. And I was like. It was one of those things. I'm like, I've been doing this for well over a decade, and I'm like, I'm still super nervous about it. I'm still a little unsure. And then what do you do? You get up there, you go and do it. It's like, yeah, Mace, people chuckle at your jokes. Maybe they don't, but it's like, you go and do it. And it's so funny because I get home at the end of the day and I'm just like, that was so fun. That was so fun, you know, and it's. I don't know, man. It's like, how can we create a world where it just. People lean into that. They lean into the tension of just being uncomfortable. They lean into the tension of uncertainty. You know, it's just. It's always like, the coolest results and success come on the back of uncertainty. And I don't know, I just. I wish. I wish kids today felt more comfortable doing that and failing. And I wish that us as adults encouraged it more and more and wanted people to just sort of sit in that uncomfortable tension instead of trying to take it away from them, which, you know, as parents, we have to make sure we do, too. We have to. Can't take away that learning opportunity from them anymore.

So. Well said. Why do you think we care so much about what other people think? So, like, for example, you're nervous about 700 sixth and seventh graders and potentially what they think about your speech. So why is it that we have this natural inclination to care so much for other people think, particularly with this, the younger generation coming up with all the social media, too. I think that's only enhanced that issue.

Oh, for sure. I. I do think, like, we. I mean, as people, we yearn for, like, the approval of others. I think that's real. I mean, I don't think that. I think it's been enhanced with social media. I don't think it's. I think it's always actually been like that, personally. Like, let's be real, just in history, I think people have always yearned for approval. And. Yeah, I mean, what's interesting, being an outlier. This is like, what's interesting. Like, we're, like, taught that outliers are bad, right? Like, you talk about being a math guy, right? Like, ooh, there's an outlier there. That must mean that something's off, right? Like, blah, blah, blah. What's cool, though, is, like, why not adopt an outlier mindset, Right. That being different, being odd, being unique is actually really important. Because here's the deal, right? You've talked to a bunch of people on this podcast that work with the highest of performers. Baseball players are outliers. Major league baseball players are outliers. PGA golfers are outliers. Professional basketball players are outliers.

Yep.

They. They. Well, well, let's. Okay, let's. Let's play this out a little bit. Well, they. So an outlier is different from the norm, Right? So professional baseball players eat different than normal people. They train different than normal people. Their relationship with their family is different than normal people. Their travel schedule is different than normal people. Their sleep schedule is different than normal people. So, yes, the way they think is also different from normal people. So being an outlier isn't a bad thing. It's actually badass thing that we have adopted this idea that being normal is the way to go. But in reality, all the people that you see doing incredible feats are vastly different. They are outliers. They are unique. They are different from the norm. And they train. That's the thing. They train differently from the norm. Which is why mental performance coaching is badass, dude. We train outliers to think differently. Like, how cool is that?

You know, and that's awesome, because the more I dive into this in research and do these podcasts, the more obsessed I become with that outlier. Because what I want to do is unpack what that outlier does, the way they think, their actions, their behaviors, and I want to put it on a silver platter so I can go to people and be like, you want to be an MVP in the mlb? This is what you do. If you're willing to commit to this, great. If not, then you can be content knowing you made the conscious choice. You weren't willing to do that. And I'm just. And I love. You know, this conversation's been awesome. I think we, you know, a lot of your beliefs and practices resonate really well with me because I think that there's a really good balance of brute force and then there's the really good balance of, I choose the word like, empathy and understanding where you are and being where your feet are and, you know, understanding the other emotions of gratitude. And again, sorry to use the word positive, like positivity, but, like, you know, I think you have an awesome balance of that, and I think for me, I'm starting to find that balance as well. So just, you know, thank you for the conversation so far. This stuff has been really, really awesome for the listeners.

Absolutely.

And you know, to, to kind of, you know, bring it home here and wrap it up. So like, I really like looking at guys like Mike Trout, Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady, Michael Jordan, Steph Curry, LeBron James. We could go down the list. It's guys who, for whatever reason, LeBron James is the, the exception, I'd probably say here. But people who weren't probably supposed to be the best ever that end up being the best ever. So how much can we actually bring out of us with our mindset? Like, how much can we actually unlock the physical tools by diving into our minds? Because Steph Curry can barely dunk and the man is 6 4, but he's going to go down as probably a Mount Rushmore basketball player. So it's like, how do we really unlock what we're physically capable of?

I mean, again, Colin, another loaded question. It's so, again, I don't know any of these people. Like, you only, you only know what you see, right? I mean, that's real. We can be honest with that. But over a decade of sort of seeing some of the highest performers in spaces that at least I've been around and co workers just sharing stories and things like that, I will say that it feels like some of the best performers have a incredible understanding of themselves and to like to take it one layer deeper than that and to tie a little bit more into the mental performance space. I do firmly believe that mental performance and mental performance coaching, our job is to help individuals understand themselves better. It's not just about how they think or their emotions or whatever it is. It's also to understand that there's a brain body connection. And that as a mental performance coach, it's our responsibility to help individuals understand the systems and processes in our body that our brains drive. Because in reality, like that's, that's oftentimes what the highest performers experience. And like the, the best ones choose, they make, like just call it like they make informed choices, right? So like I'm gonna go do something scary, right? So this is what my brain is going to start to do and tell my body. This is how I'm going to experience it physiologically and emotionally, right? So now that I know that, right now that I was taught that or learned that I get to make the informed choice of what happens when I start to experience those emotions or there's physiological systems and processes that kick off because I'm going to go do something wild like climb El Cap with no rope or whatever. It might be right. Like, I get to make the informed choice of what I'm going to do. And, like, I'm very empowered now because I understand this. Mental performance is about an understanding model. That's what it is. I think a lot of times people look at it as a deficit model, right? Ooh, that guy's in a slump. Go talk to the mental performance coach. Like, ooh, that guy's struggling. Go talk to male performance coach. Ooh, that guy's like, a little bit whatever. Like, let's go have him talk to my performance coach. Screw that, man. Like, mental performance coaching and mental performance the field, we are, we are about helping individuals understand themselves. We're helping them understand this unbelievable badass connection between our brain and our body. And then when they understand that they're making wildly informed choices in the biggest of moments and the most pressure of moments in these wild spaces, and we're going to help provide them reps and hopefully help them make the right informed choice that works for them in that moment. Right? But when push comes to shove, it's them out there. I'm not on the pitching mound. I'm not doing, you know, I'm not doing my pitching visits. We're not out there in the huddle for when Patrick Mahomes is down there in the, the final couple of seconds of the Super Bowl. Like, he has done the work, he's put the work in and that's what matters. That's the most important part. And so that, I mean, that's the thing that I think separates those guys and gals, like they make. They make the right informed choice when it's time to make the right choice.

See, you said that was a loaded question. You answered it so elegantly. And what a beautiful place to wrap it up because I think you articulated near as near perfect as you can be. But want to thank you so much for coming on. Really enjoyed the conversation. We'll. We'll have to run it back again. You know, if you have, if people want to find you, you have anything to promote, please take the next, you know, a couple minutes to do so.

Yeah, not a, Not a big self promoter here. I mean, I, I have Twitter and Instagram. It's Brian C. Miles. I try to try to post some mental performance stuff on there. You can just look my name up for on LinkedIn if you're interested. A couple like two years ago, myself and Justin Sua, who's with the Rays, and Lauren Johnson, he used to be with the Yankees, we put together like a little show called the mindset show on YouTube. You can, you can look that up. It's really just three mental performance coaches riffing on some topics and stuff, but, yeah, otherwise, that's about it. And again, Colin, appreciate the opportunity to connect and chat with you. It was a blast.

Nah, thank you so much, man. You know, listeners, you know, make sure to give them a follow, you know, like, rate, subscribe, leave a comment for us, you know, we, we really appreciate it and make sure to tune in next week.