Talking kinematics and biomechanics with Director of Player Performance at Baseball Performance Lab, Micah Gibbs

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All right guys, welcome to the Up and In Show. I'm Anthony Renato here, joined with my buddy, my former college roommate Micah Gibbs. Thank you for joining us.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

No problem. Micah, you are now the director of player development at LSU. You're a former 3rd round draft pick by the Chicago Cubs in the 2010 draft, um, former USA catcher, correct?

Correct.

And made it to AAA with how many teams?

The Royals. Just the Royals, uh, got Rule 5'd minor league rule 5 by the Dodgers, but, uh, right before spring training decided to get into the coaching ranks.

Awesome, awesome. Well, thank you for taking the time. I know you're busy. You guys got camp, so you're doing everything at LSU right now. You got showcase camps this weekend, right?

Correct.

But thank you, we appreciate the time. Uh, you're the man. So, uh, let's get into it, dude. Uh, let's, let's, uh, all right, so you and I came in together freshman year. This is where we met. Um, I was a kid from New Jersey, not very, uh, good with my social skills, especially in the South. And, uh, in come you and Cody, ran into my apartment first day, sleeveless Sleeveless t-shirts, true muscleheads.

Yeah, muscleheads.

You guys knew each other, so I was like, boy, yeah. And I was feeling intimidated because you guys knew each other. I knew DJ, but he wasn't there yet, right? You guys come walking in with your sleeveless shirts and everything, right?

Which we thought we were jacked, but it was really just— we were probably overweight more than anything.

That's because Mr. Wren was cooking you guys a bunch of food and everything over there.

No, yeah, he, uh, he had this special macaroni and cheese that he would, he would bring, uh, had bacon in it, uh, like pork sausage. Yeah, all these different meats. And he like brings me it on this like popcorn bowl that like you'd have for like your family of 6 that you like pass around watching a movie. And he hands it to me and I'm like, oh thanks, like this is a lot of macaroni and cheese. Yeah. And he— I'm like, I take like a bite because he has a spoon in it. And then I'm like going to pass it to Cody and as I'm doing it he brings him the same one, like another one. I'm like, this is a meal for 6 people. Like, you're like, this is my own individual, what do I do with this? And he's like, yeah, steaks are on the grill, like this is to hold you guys over.

Like, and you're like, oh, this is that, I guess.

This is, this is Louisiana.

It's different than Texas.

Yeah, it's a little different.

But that's funny. I remember when I went over to Cody's house, he made me— his dad made me all those steaks and everything, and I was like, this is different. Yeah, this is different. That was my first taste of the South. But yeah, it was awesome. Um, all right, so you're from Texas, grew up, born and raised Austin area, right? You went to Pflugerville High and Liberty—

is that so? Liberty Hill.

Liberty Hill.

That's where, uh, that's kind of where I grew up, where I spent most of elementary school, middle school, grade school.

Gotcha.

Um, all public schools pretty much in Texas. And, uh, ended my freshman year there, uh, and then ended up graduating actually from Pflugerville High School, which is the kind of the more, right, famous town. I'm probably in this area. It starts with a P. That's right, that's right. So yeah, uh, that was my fun thing to do is make a little money in college, get people to try to spell it.

Did you make any money?

I got it right. Nobody gave me any money. Nobody gave you any money? Yeah. They just laughed at me. I was wearing a sleeveless shirt in class.

They just laughed at me. Oh, that's awesome. But you kind of— you had a weird situation. You went to two high schools, but you didn't play your senior year. Most guys don't do that, especially coming to an elite school like LSU. You're a high-level recruit, um, and also being potentially drafted out of high school, correct? So like, talk to me about that and how that was.

Yeah, so, uh, the guy that was my summer ball coach was actually also an agent, um, like a I think they call them advisors before you get— before you actually sign with them. Yeah, legal term. And he was telling me like that he'd heard some things from some teams and maybe I'd get drafted. And this is before my senior year. There's some interest. And by transferring to that school, we transferred for my mom's job. She got a new job. We moved there to get closer to her work and everything and went through this whole legal process with the state of Texas, and yeah, they call it UIL is what it was called, kind of like LHSAA here, I guess. And, uh, ended up finding out that like a relative of one of the district coaches in that district was on the board there. Oh, and like basically by the rule of the book, like there's no reason I shouldn't have been able to play, right? And the coach I left from signed off on it and everything, and they still didn't let me play. So it's kind of a little interesting, actually. Yeah, it was very bush and actually had a couple lawyers that like reached out. They thought like we'd have like a case and all this stuff, and my parents were just like, no, it's not worth it. Like, Coach Manieri was great. He was like, hey, just make sure you stay in shape, right? Keep hitting, like get ready for summer ball, and like come here ready to play. And I'm like, all right, sounds good. Like, there's a lot of places that probably be like, hey, like we have to take your scholarship or whatever, like because we just don't know what we're gonna get, that kind of thing. So, um, can't thank him enough for still believing in me. Yeah, and so I just got ready for Summer Ball. I ended up having to play, I think, a couple weeks with like a 15U team just because like all the other— just get ready. Yeah, exactly, all that stuff. So, um, it was, it was definitely different. Um, we're happy though.

I bet your coach was kind of happy though, right? I mean, because like it takes the draft out of it, right? Maybe.

I don't know if I was going to be that high of a draft pick, but hey, I mean, you never know what happens in your senior year. High school, because you go out unbelievable your senior year and anything can happen, especially, um, pitchers and catchers. Yeah. That, like, they're— that's, that's what everybody's going for.

Exactly. So, so we all get lucky here at LSU, and, and I mean, I, I, you know me, I'm really weird in, in the way that the universe and the law of universe and everything, and I'm happy that it worked out that you— I mean, now looking back at it, 10, 11, 12, 13 years later, that you didn't play your senior year. So you showed up at LSU, you didn't get drafted, we took that risk out of it. You show up at LSU, you come in as a freshman. Talk to me about what that was like coming from Texas, not playing your senior year but then adjusting to what it was like becoming an elite-level college player?

It was definitely different starting out, especially from a catching standpoint, because everybody you're catching, like when you get there, is the best catcher, best pitcher you've caught from other teams you played for and stuff. And honestly, it was like it was actually the first time— the first guy I caught, of course, was Jared Bradford, and he was SEC Pitcher of the Year before that. Yeah, throwing turbo sinkers. Oh, sinkers. I think it was the first ever time I caught like a sinker ball, right? Like I always thought I caught sinkers, but I think it was just gravity because the ball's coming too slow. And high school, the guys I was catching, but this was like it's coming in at 90 miles an hour. And then at the last second, it's just diving down. Yeah, my thumb was— I almost couldn't fit my hand in my glove after the first couple of weeks and just getting used to catching that, let alone hitting it. Yeah. So it's like I'm just— all I'm trying— like all I'm worrying about is just catching the baseball. Like, I first get there and like, so Coach Rooney's not yelling at me. He's in there with the pencil in his ear and just screaming at me. Uh, he's like, catch the ball, come on, let's go.

He was worse on you guys than he was the pitchers. I remember, like, I was like, I remember looking at the catchers being like, you guys got it worse than us. I mean, we gotta run, but I mean, it was brutal. He was nuts with you guys.

Yeah, no, there's some— but I mean, but it makes you better because it brings up the— your expectations and, uh, especially of yourself. So for me, I'm just trying to play, I'm just trying to catch the baseball. And then, then we get into scrimmages and it's like, now I'm just trying to catch the baseball, but now you got guys running, bunting. Like, the game seems like— I feel like I'm in Oh, I'm Ricky Bobby after the accident.

Are those other cars?

These are the other players on the field? What is this? I got Jared Mitchell stealing second, like Chad Jones with the bat.

What's going on?

Yeah, what is happening? Yeah. And, uh, and I remember— so funny story about Rooney. So I remember we're in like a first scrimmage and he's calling the pitches and everything. I'm getting them in, like everything's going 100 miles an hour. I miss a block, like next pitch, like guy hits a home run. I've I get the ball from the umpire, I run out there and I'm like, hey, like, it's all right. Kind of like calm, like what, like things you think you're supposed to be doing as a catcher and come back behind the plate later that inning, gives up another home run. And, uh, and I go back out there, I'm like, hey, it's all right, whatever. And I start working back to home plate and all of a sudden Rooney comes sprinting out of the dugout and I'm like, oh, okay, he's probably gonna talk to him too. So I go out there, doesn't even look at the pitcher. It was Bradshaw. Yeah, yeah. Doesn't even look at Bradshaw. He's right in my face, like in my face. Like, somehow I feel he's in my, my face mask somehow, somehow. And he's like screaming at me like, you don't have to go out there every single time he gives up a home run. I'm like, okay, yes sir. Yeah. And I'm like, like everything, of course, 100 miles an hour still. And he's just like screaming at me the whole time, like spit going everywhere.

His face is purple because he's got 3 Red Bulls or Nosses or whatever the fuck he drank.

Yeah, he had like— I remember, I remember walking every day from from school and there's like a shipment of monsters coming out. I was like, there was one yesterday. Like, oh yeah, they're just drinking those left and right. And he's screaming at me, vein coming out of his, out of his forehead. And I'm like, what is this place? And it's like, and I didn't even know what I was hitting in the fall because I was like, all I cared about was I catch the baseball. Like, don't be an idiot.

Yeah.

And just try not to look stupid in front of everybody. Yeah. So, um, it kind of went into like the spring and coach had sat down with me and he's like, hey, like you're a backup catcher. Like, Sean's the starter, obviously. Like, he was All-SEC or freshman All-SEC the year before. He's like, but you're gonna need to get a lot better because we need to— like, you need to play. Yeah, we got to give Sean some time off, right? And he's like, right now, like, I don't think you're ready to play a college baseball game. And I'm like, fuck me, right? Right. I'm like, geez, Merry Christmas. Yeah, it's Christmas break. Like, thanks. Yeah. Um, so like the entire, the entire winter and the pre-part of the spring, Coach Godwin, like every day, balls in the dirt, VLO machine receiving. Like, I feel like there's times where they're like midnight and he's just like throwing balls at— like, and that was the best part about Coach Godwin was he would literally be there all hours of day. If you were in your, if you're in your dorm, you couldn't go to sleep and you're just like worried about your swing, like you could text him at 11:30 and he's like, hey, like come to the cage real quick, and he's gonna drive drive to the cages and start hitting with you at 11:30, midnight, whatever. And it was every single day that we were just grinding. It was the breaks we would get would be like mental, like it would be like mentally he'd start challenging me with like stuff. And I'm like, and the next thing you know, he's like, he's just teaching me to take it one pitch at a time. He's like, and we kind of almost get in this mentality of like, hey, like, do everything you can to not hurt the team. Like, I was just like, it was almost like it was almost like a—

it was like a— yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Which as a catcher, it's really what it is. He's like, Like, and so I took that mentally of like, I'm not gonna let everybody else down, right? But with how bad I like, I'm catching or hitting or whatever, and it ended up getting to where— and I think this is the best part about college baseball too, is you don't have to have all the best tools, and like, you don't have to be the Under Armour All-American. You come in and like, that team aspect of it that you don't get in minor league baseball and, uh, and pro ball in general is That was the driving fact or factor for me was I'm not going to let our entire team down because I miss a block, I miss catch a ball, and it helped me slow everything down and helped me develop. And Coach Godwin was instrumental in that.

That's awesome, dude. And I remember, I remember those. I remember how intense Godwin was throwing those balls at you guys' chest. You guys are in the back corner, you and Sean doing those things at the old box too before he went to the new one.

Like Hell's Corner.

Yeah, Hell's Corner.

You guys are puking at like Like Sean's taking a ball off the neck, throws it into the fence, takes another one off the neck, throws on Nicholson. Godwin's laughing. Yeah, just keeps—

but he's just egging you guys.

Oh yeah, he's like, keep going. But like bunny hops like all the way down the warning track.

Uh, dude, I remember those days. But as a, as a pitcher, we appreciate it, you know, obviously. But I mean, I know you won't say it on air, but so I'll say it for you. I'm glad you said Sean's accolades. You came in and coach told you— okay, so that was winter break. That he wants you to be the backup catcher. Now, not everybody might know the story, but Sean was a freshman All-American the year before he went to the Cape Cod League. He was a Cape Cod League All-Star, and he's a really good prospect as a catcher. It's really hard to dethrone that guy, right? Well, you come in and you just silently put your head down, you go to work, right? You start building relationships, you start doing what you just said to become the best version of yourself, or where you thought you could add the most value to the team. And then you take over Sean's position, and Sean— it wound up working out tremendously for us, you know, obviously in the future because Sean was an instrumental part of our team in different positions and obviously a huge team leader. So, but talk to me about becoming the, the guy as a freshman, you know, becoming and handling a staff that you were the underclassman. And then talk to me about how that relayed into Team USA the next summer because you became the Team USA catcher and you're catching guys like Mike Leake and Stephen Strasburg and I mean, I know there's a bunch of other names on that list of that team that year, but it was a crazy exceptional class that were going into draft. So you went from coming in as a freshman where you just said Coach Manieri said, hey, you're not good enough to play here or, you know, you're not good enough yet to be the backup. And you don't— and basically took a stance of I don't want to be a liability to becoming the USA catcher and catching Steven Strasburg.

So, and that was— and I think like I was talking about with Coach Godwin, that was when I went into the spring season, it was let's don't, let's don't mess up. I don't want to be a liability. But I took to it like, and Godwin helped me with this, of like, control the things you can control. Like, so I want to be the best. Like, I felt like my receiving was pretty good. It got better. I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be the best receiver I can be. I'm gonna receive everything, block everything. And if I throw somebody out, who cares? Because that was the thing that was the fastest, right? Guys going to catch it, footwork, like all that stuff. And started to get like a little more comfortable, like, as I was catching some midweek games and coming into games when we were either like we were winning by a lot or whatever. And Godwin and Rooney were so good about helping me with that. Kind of like when I would just stand next to him during games and hear what they would say about like Sean when he was catching or like what was going on with the pitchers. And I was just taking in everything Rooney was saying because he— every pitch there was a comment with Rooney.

Of course.

Yeah. Um, most of them are—

I did the same thing. You and I were sitting there a lot because I mean Rooney always encouraged us to do that. So it was, it was—

yeah. And, and so like you could hear him when he'd get upset, or Godwin would get upset about the way Sean caught a ball, or, or the way Bradshaw threw a pitch, or whatever. And you learn those things that, like, usually if you're not playing, you're gonna sit the other end of the dugout, you're drinking water, watching the game, messing around with everybody else, whatever. But like, mine was maybe I can learn little stuff from them to like make myself even less of a liability. Yeah. So we get to probably, I think, like probably a couple series into the SEC, we're at Florida We lose the first 2 games, and I— like, Sean had a couple pitches that got away and was kind of struggling hitting. And you know, Sean, like, he wanted to be number 1 overall pick, so he's pressing a little bit. And coach comes up to me— this is like, we're off the bus putting our stuff up, like, I'm putting my cleats on, getting ready for BP— and he goes, hey, uh, catching today. And I'm like, me? Wait, today? Like, Sunday against Florida? It was like first SEC start.

Yeah.

I'm like, Uh, okay. And he's like, he's like, and by the way, this isn't like a, hey, I need to give Sean like some rest and give him a blow. No, like, you catch well, like, you're gonna catch Tuesday at the Wally Poniff game. Yeah. And I'm like, okay. Yeah.

All right.

Well, yeah, sure, whatever you need. So I, I, same mindset of like, don't screw up. Yeah. So I'm catching Bradford, which is nice. He was throwing on Sunday. Oh, that's nice because I caught him a couple times and he's, he's right on, right around the zone.

It makes your job a little easier.

Yeah. And I'd caught him a bunch and and it made it a lot more comfortable. So I'm catching him and then Godwin tells me like before the inning, he's like, hey, these are the guys that run. He's like, if this guy gets on, he's going to run like within the first 2 pitches. So like be ready to throw him out. So I get in there like—

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Catch a couple balls, get the nerves out a little bit. Of course that guy singles up the middle. Of course. And of course, uh, you're good. What's—

what are— really quick before you continue that story, you said something about your nerves or whatever, like shake the nerves off. As a pitcher, I know when I'm on the mound and I have my adrenaline going, my hand's a little shaky. Not shaky, but like, you know, like I'm anxious to throw the pitch and, and more like, all right, let's get this out there, you know, like, and I feel a little tight. What is it for you when you say nerves and you want to get that first one out of the way? Is it catching it, receiving it, feeling good, and like throwing it back to the pitcher and being like, oh, okay, I got it? Or is it something else?

Because you get there and I think it's a little harder for pitchers because you feel like you're kind of— Yeah, it's different. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Everybody's staring at you where with catching you're kind of like you're squatting, you're in between two other guys, you've got a mask on, you feel like you're hiding in a way. But, but no, there's definitely times, especially like the bigger the crowd, you start getting a little nervous. But more than anything, it's like it's for me, it was breathing and it was literally trying to do everything as slow as possible outside of the actual things I was doing. Yeah. Because even when I thought I was going like normal speed, it was like everything's fast.

That's what you do.

That's awesome. Yeah. And it was stuff like Godwin talked to me about. Like, he's like, hey, it's same bases. Everything's the same. Just try to go at half the speed with given signs. Like, it might feel like you're doing something ridiculous. Like, I feel, I literally feel like I'm giving like signs and I'm like, you're doing this. But like, I go back and I watch the video and I'm like, yeah, everything's normal. Everything's normal. But it was, it's just that adrenaline. And that helped a lot. But I think him telling me and giving me the preparation beforehand of like, hey, this guy's gonna run like as soon as he gets on base. And first pitch, he takes off. And I'm sure O'Sullivan's over there like, oh, freshman catcher, never been in the SEC, here we go. But like, perfect pitch, like start cheating a little bit, catch it, throw it down to second, and like perfect throw. Like, I don't know how it happened. And tag the guy, bang bang play, calls him out. And I'm like, oh my God, one for one, baby. Let's go. I'm like, what did I just do? Yeah, I'm like, what am I doing?

And, uh, you start walking back to the dugout.

That thing is like, for some reason it just gave me like— it just— everything just like slowed down so much after that huge exhale. Oh yeah. And then so I get up and, uh, we're facing, uh, the lefty pitch for the Red Sox, probably Brian Johnson. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're facing him on Sunday and, uh, he has this little cutter and lefties, like, I always struggled with, with fastballs in versus lefties. And like, somehow with the like 17 at-bats or whatever I had, they were just hammering me in. It's probably because it's like first start, like, we're just gonna throw it as hard as we can in on him. And I just get as absolutely jammed as can possibly be and squirt this ball like in the 4-hole with a guy on first base. And I'm like, oh my God, I gotta hit too. This is really happening. It was easier than I thought, right? And then so The whole thing was Godwin, like, talked to me afterwards. He's like, I got— because we win the game. Yeah, yeah, it was a big win, kind of got us going on, uh, getting us kind of prepared to go on that, the long streak in '08. And he came up to me and he's like, basically brought me back down too. He's like, hey, hell of a job. Like, was so pumped up, couldn't be any more pumped up for me. And then after that was like, this is not going to get to your head, you're not going to be that guy. And starts like chewing me out. Yeah, wait, wait, where's the nice guy? I was like, Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde. And so I'm like, and but it brought me back down to be like, hey, like, that's just one game. Yeah, you gotta keep it like, yeah, we got a lot of games left. He's like, you're the guy, like, whatever. I'm like, okay, like, back and forth. Yeah, but he just— but it was that he was like, I can't—

like, it was just enough of the ebb and flow to give you like the confidence but also keep you grounded and tight to be like, I still got to keep my edge and get better and learn and do those things.

Part of me is I'm like, all right, like, I'm gonna play on Tuesday, like, take day off Tomorrow, whatever. And he's like, hey, tomorrow Hell's Corner, 4 o'clock. I'm like, wait, what? What?

I just caught—

yeah, I'm playing, I'm playing now. He's like, this ain't stopping. So like every day it like kept going. But it was— but I think it was that thing, like we, we know now with pro ball that you have to have a routine, right? And for us it was like, that was something I was doing every day. And he's like, we're not stopping now. And I can't— like, I can't thank those, especially those two. I mean, obviously the whole staff, but like Godwin was unbelievable.

No, I know he was.

Yeah. And, and he's the guy that If you were like, if you would have told me to run through a brick wall, I'd have been like, helmet, no helmet, what do you want? Which wall? Where's this wall at? So, but that was huge going in. And then you're talking about Team USA, like we get through that whole season and feeling comfortable, but then that's like on a whole nother level. Like you said, Strasburg, Leake, Mike Minor was on that team.

That's who I was trying to— Yeah, who were some of the other names that were on that team?

You remember? We had a guy, so Mike Leake, Minor, Strasburg, Kendall Volz. Yep, I remember I played with him at Baylor. Yeah, I played with him with the Red Sox a little bit, like a big, like Big 12 saves record. Um, that, that year that team had a 0.8 ERA for the summer. Like, it was, it was ridiculous.

Kyle Gibson on that team.

Kyle Gibson was on the team.

Yeah, stupid big leaguers.

And a guy, uh, lefty from Miami, uh, Chris Hernandez. Hernandez was our age, but he was with the Red Sox too, right? He dominated college baseball. Yep. Um, trying to think who some of the other guys were.

Uh, so it was our freshman year, right? Who are some of the—

oh, uh, Griffin played for the A's.

Um, AJ Griffin.

AJ Griffin.

Yep.

Like all these big— like, yeah, no, it was a stupid—

like, and some of those names are not guys that were like—

people had a taste.

It was like, right, right, yeah, Mike Lee, Strasburg, Griffin, like, Guy Gibson, like staples in rotations, right?

No, it was sick.

It was awesome.

It was unreal. And, and I got to call call the games for the summer. And I mean, that's also like getting like a cheat sheet. It feels like, because it's like every single pitch they threw is an out pitch in a way.

Like playing them across the show.

Yeah. You got Strasburg throwing 99 against South Korea. Yeah. A guy fouls a ball off like first contact in the second inning. First time anybody's touched the ball.

I remember you telling me this story.

Fouls it straight back at 99 and I call like the next pitch and I'm like, changeup. And he's like, uh-uh. Like pissed. No.

He's like, no.

And I keep going. I go back to fastball and he starts going. Like he doesn't even say yes. He starts the windup. It's like 104. Oh, somebody's pissed. Yeah. He's like, foul the ball off.

Guy touched my pitch.

Yeah, exactly. And the South Korean kid's like screaming like, ah.

I actually remember you telling me those kind of stories when I came back. When we came back in the fall, we're like unloading into our new apartment. And I remember asking you like, just question, you know, I'm right. I'm an up-and-coming guy and I'm like, what's Strasburg like?

What's Gibson like?

What is it like catching? You know, what do they throw like? How do they work? What's their preparation?

You know, I think that was a thing that really helped going forward. Because I think '09 forward is where I kind of took off with like a handling the pitching staff standpoint, because all those guys, you have so many different guys that you have no idea about. So you go into it and you're like, hey dude, like, what do you like? What do you like to target? Where do you like all this? And I'm thinking of it from just like a, I just don't want to look stupid back there aspect once again, right? And I realized like, no, that's how you work with the staff. You talk to the guys like, hey, how do you like to target? Some guys like a big target, some guys want something real small. And so like just kind of like patterning everything to what they want, but then also seeing how they approach, like how they pitch games. Like some guys are more fastball dominant, some guys like more off-speed and how they like to kind of do the back and forth. And then we play, uh, another story, we played Cuba and, uh, Yuli Gurriel was on the team. Yuli Gurriel, he was on the team, uh, before he came over to America. And Mike, Mike Miner's pitching against him and throws him a first pitch changeup. He's like way out in front. Like, I've never seen anybody out more, more out in front of a changeup. So like me, like being an elementary catcher at the time, I'm like, oh, doing that again. Changeup hits, it had to be like 110 off the bat, laser in the gap. Oh my God. And I come back in and our pitching coach is like, hey, like, just want to let you know, like some of these smarter players, because the Cuban team was their Olympic team, right? It wasn't like their college team. This was like their older team. He's like, they'll look bad on a pitch and then sit on it the next one because they know you're going to call it again.

And that was the first time you ever heard—

I was like, wait, what? Why would you do that? Yeah. And, and so like from there I'm like, well, now what do I call? And he's like, no, you just got to mix it up. Like one guy, like if it's at the bottom of the lineup, use like a lot more fastballs than you'd usually use. And then when this guy comes up, what'd you throw him last time? So that's when I started learning like, okay, now I need to remember what we called in previous at-bats. And I think that helped me out the most when it got pro ball, but also like when we would call games, like not saying Coach Gruy when we were doing it, like not saying he didn't know how to call a game because he obviously did a very good job with calling the game. But there were times where he'd call something and I'd see it and just from working with you so many times when you're there and I'd be like, the curveball is going to be the best pitch here. And I'd see him call like fastball up and it was not— I don't want to say a waste pitch, but there's a— like you waste one, throw a fastball up to set up the breaking ball. I'm like, no, we can get him with a curveball. And I'd like tap my chest, look at him and he'd be like, Yeah, go, go after it. We call curveball and go. And it just helped going forward, being able to like be with all these guys that— and you know, these guys are going to be big leaguers when you catch them because it's just— they're just different. Yeah.

And that's coming from experience and being a guy on that staff and, you know, combining that. I knew you really well personally as a friend and, you know, we lived together. Your confidence from, you know, just— I mean, naturally evolving. But that summer particularly when you came home, the way you carried yourself, the knowledge that you spoke of in a way that was educating and not talking down was a way that gave confidence to the pitchers, you know, in a way that you don't even understand. But right, just knowing that you caught Strasburg and do these different things and you're coming out and saying something to me that you see that you think I'm listening differently because I'm like, this guy knows what he's talking about, you know. So you gave a confidence and ability to the staff that you probably didn't even know about at the time, you know.

Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. And that— but that's the thing is it works the other way because That's how I felt when Strasburg's talking to me. Exactly. 100%. So he's coming up and talking to me, he's like, hey, like whenever you like call this pitch, I want you to set up like a little bit. I'm like, yes sir. Yeah. And you're like, oh wait, he's actually younger than me by a couple months or whatever. But I'm like calling him sir. I'm like, okay, sir.

Yeah, whatever you need, sir.

Whatever you need. Yeah, whatever you need. Because I get there and so actually going back, so funny story. So I go out there for the trials for USA and we'd played in Omaha. So they told me, they're like, hey, like You're going to come with us. You're going to be on the team, but like you're playing these games, these trials, whatever. And then we're going to cut some guys, but we want you to play, get to, get to know some of these guys. So I go up there, I'm facing Strasburg, like hitting, hitting against him. Yeah. And I'm, I'm like, I show up, we get there. And best part is, is we land, the bags come in, everything, all that stuff. The one bag that doesn't show up is my baseball bag.

Of course.

Of course. So like, you know, the guy, the guy picks me up in a minivan and we drive to Dick's. And pick up like a jockstrap cup. That's right, I remember you telling me all this stuff. And I'm wearing like all this like brand new stuff, showing up to the game like 30 minutes before the game. And he's like, hey, we're gonna put you up, we're gonna have you start the game, but you're gonna, uh, you're gonna catch for the visiting team now, just so you can like, you can get on that bat and get kind of used to it, but you don't have to like, you can take your time getting loose and all that stuff. So I, I get there like 30 minutes before the game starts, everybody's ready. I'm this new guy coming in with like whatever clothes I'm wearing, like changing in the bathroom in the dugout. And I get up there and I go to face Strasburg, but like beforehand I'm in the dugout and I'm talking to some of the guys and, uh, I'm like, so does anybody know anything about this guy? And like everybody looks at me like, they're like, who's this?

Who doesn't know about this guy, you dumbass?

I think they thought I was like joking, like trying to be that guy. Yeah, exactly. LSU guy coming in here, like whatever. And I'm like, no, it's like, no, seriously. I can picture like the 19-year-old—

yeah, 19-year-old Micah being like, no, seriously, what?

Yeah, but I'm like, no, I got— I have no idea. And they're like, well, yeah, he's gonna be the number 1 overall pick next year.

Like, they're gonna—

he's actually gonna play on Team USA, and then he's actually gonna go to China and play with the Olympics. Yeah, the real Team USA, major leaguers. And I'm like, oh, he's pretty good. Okay, so he's good, right? Yeah, he's been up to 100. And I'm like Sweet. Miles an hour. So I get up there. Yeah. So I get up there and like, I've never faced anything 100. Like the closest thing would be like Josh Fields at Georgia. He's like 95 or whatever. Like Strasburg, how long his arms are and all that stuff. Like it was on a whole nother level, but I get up there first, like first time facing him, throws a pitch and I foul it straight back and I'm like, oh, so I look something back to the catcher and I'm like, I was like, dang, I thought that was going to be a lot harder. And he's like, it was a changeup.

You didn't know?

I had no idea. I was like, excuse me? Yeah. And so like he throws another one because he thinks like, probably thinks I'm messing with him. Like I had no, like, he's like, there's no way this kid doesn't know that's a changeup. So he throws another one and I ground out to second and I like go and I like see it on the board and it says like 90, 90, 91 or something like that. I'm like, There's no way he's throwing a 91-mile-an-hour changeup. And I like come back in the dugout, like the next pitch, next guy, it's like 97. And I'm like, oh my God, it was a changeup.

It really was.

And I was like, thank God he didn't throw me one. Didn't have to face him again.

You never faced him, so you never saw it?

I never saw the fastballs.

Wow, that's funny. But you caught it plenty of times.

Yeah, being blessed right there. You're like, I'll take my ground out to second.

Yeah, I'll take my 90, 91 and ground out.

Exactly.

So I put it in play against Strasburg.

Yeah, but no, he was he was, uh, he was something because he was the nicest guy in the world, of course. And, um, but it was, it was special catching someone that had 4-out pitches because you— because then you can learn some creativity with it. But, but going back to like what you said is just being able to like be around that guy, and he's obviously having tons of success now with the Nationals. Yeah, just being able to learn from him even at that age, like you could just tell he was way more mature and being able to learn how like he sees the game from that aspect and someone that's had that success and being able to kind of bring it back to LSU in some way.

Dude, it was— I remember all of us thought the same thing. And I know, and even if we didn't verbalize it, it was just like there was a different way that we were listening and paying attention to things you did and things you said. So it was fun for us. Let's go from— so you go from Team USA, come back that fall, we start developing as a team. And like I said, our staff starts developing. I'm not going to say it had everything to do with you playing for Team USA, but like I said, we had a great staff, had a great year. Obviously, we win the national championship. Roll into your junior year, you get drafted in the third round by the Chicago Cubs and you start your pro ball career. How did, you know, LSU, Team USA, things Coach Minary taught you, you know, developing as a man over the course of 3 years help you prepare for pro ball? And what were some of the initial challenges that you faced when you first got in?

Well, I think the biggest thing that you learn at LSU is kind of how to handle, handle yourself as a man. Coach teaches so much of like being responsible for your stuff, like day in, day out, having a schedule, knowing like what you're supposed to do, like community service, like having some awareness of that. But just like when we get to— when you get to pro ball, you walk in the clubhouse and it's like there's a couple times on the board and that's it.

Yeah.

Like, it's like, yeah, well, what about this? What about that? Well, at LSU, like, you, you get used to having stuff and having stuff planned out so far in advance that when you get to the field, like, you know what you need to be doing. You kind of have a routine.

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Because he almost forces a routine on you. So you're like, oh, what did I do when I was in college? Right. For most places you go in college, you probably show up to the field and, oh, practice at 4 today. Okay. Oh, we're doing a night practice today. Okay. So you're just at the field an extra couple hours or whatever. Or like, you don't even know what time practice is after— where he has like the whole fall planned out, mapped out by time.

So like team meeting, you're getting what you're doing in November. How is this on the schedule?

You show up day 1 of the fall and you know what time practice is like 2 days before Thanksgiving. Yeah, seriously, everything's set up, workouts at 6:30 AM on November 22nd.

You're like, why? What? Why? Yeah, how do you know?

Oh, it's ridiculous.

But he's crazy like that, I would say.

But it's good. No, and then— and that's what helped, I think, the most, because you could see some of the other— a lot of the kids, especially the high school kids, like, I don't know, I, I would never recommend unless someone's trying to give you life-changing money. Yeah, signing out of high school, because it's just the stuff you learn in college you can't You can't do that on your own. Like, you can't make that up in pro ball, uh, and the maturity. Now, there's some guys that they're just that good and they do it and they're gonna make a ton of money.

Exactly.

And they have to learn the hard way. But it's just little stuff like that that you learn. The hardest part, I would say, is for me, like I was saying, like, everything for me was about the team and it was like not letting anybody down. Like, all 3 years, that's how I played the game. And then you get to pro ball and it's such an individualized game. Especially in minor leagues, that like it doesn't matter if the team wins. You went 0 for 4, right? It's not good. Yeah. Like you're going to get released, right?

So like for me, you're moving down the totem pole. Yeah, whatever it is, the hardest.

Like, and I don't think I ever got to that point where I was selfish in the way I played the game and maybe it hurt me. I don't know. But it was just like that's just not how I played the game. That's not how I was. Like, I couldn't turn that switch to do that. And that's just not who I was. And that's where you could see guys that really skyrocketed were the guys that were like, they're gonna get theirs, they're gonna get their hits, they're gonna do whatever they got to do, like, to make it. And, and that's what— and not in a bad way because I love DJ to death, but that was what DJ was. We got to— like, LSU was a stepping stone.

100%.

Yeah, like, from day one you knew that kid's gonna play in the big leagues. Yes. The way he approached everything. And that's what you see out of those guys that, that make it, is from day one it's hey, I'm going to the big leagues. Yep. And they knew that everybody else is in my way, like all that. And there's a ruthlessness to it.

There is.

That you don't— unless you have that naturally or you figure out how to have it, you— that's the thing that I don't think you can get as much from college, where college is such a team atmosphere and you learn and like winning is so important. Yeah. And I think that's— sorry, I think that's one thing that helps for guys that do make it to the big leagues, like a Bregman or something like that. Like because some of those guys, like, they don't really know what it's like winning and they don't really know how to win. And then they get to the big leagues and all of a sudden those GMs want you to win.

Yeah.

And they're like, oh, well, I've never been on like a winning team really. Like, everything's been about me, like me getting up there. And I think that's probably the most beneficial thing from college is learning how to win and getting taught how to win.

Yeah, it's pretty incredible that you're that self-aware. I've never thought of it in that sense of The way you— like, your perspective on your journey in pro ball, you know, saying like, maybe, maybe I didn't get the best version out of myself because it was so individualized. And especially as a catcher, when you're building relationships, you're more worried about the pit, you know, different things, right, that might not translate onto the stat sheet that teams might be looking for that are sexy to get you to the next level, right? You know, that's—

and that's the thing, it's crazy.

I never— I've never thought about that perspective. It was really—

yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, well, and because I— like, I was always one that really analyzed everything.

I'm the same way.

Yeah. But so like, even more so, like I self-assess myself after every game. And like, I was probably the biggest critic to myself. Like, I knew I didn't have great bat speed. I obviously wasn't fast. Like, I didn't have a, I didn't have a rocket for an arm. Like, I never, I didn't have all these tools that like a lot of guys have when they get drafted. Like, I'm not going to lie, being drafted in the third round was purely the success I had in college and playing at LSU on a big stage. Like, if I would have been at— even if I would have been at Baylor, I probably wouldn't have been a 3rd round pick even if I had the same career. So like, yeah, that's how I see it. Yeah, yeah, is there's definitely some of that to it.

No, there's an aspect, 100%.

Yeah, and, and like, because I look at myself and I see the guys I play against, I'm like, okay, that guy's a stronger arm than me, he's got better bat speed than me, what do I— what— how do I make up for that? And I think that's why in college it helps so much because the team aspect's so important. The metal bats help. All that stuff. And like, I knew pretty, pretty early, like, hey, I got to be unbelievable at the defensive side of the game and the stuff that doesn't show up on a box score. Yeah. Handling the staff like that stuff. And then, and so in pro ball, that's how I'm— that's purely how I made it to AA, AAA, like to those levels was because managers knew I knew the game. Like I was baseball smart. Yeah. I knew how to handle a staff. Yeah. I did the right things on and off the field. Right. Like the things that I could control. Yeah, I might hit.220,.230, whatever in a season, but they knew I was going to catch everything, block everything, throw out enough runners. But more than anything, I was going to help the pitching staff, the younger guys, like stuff like that. And so that's— that was part of the reason why when I got to AAA, I was happy to be at AAA, but I knew that like, yeah, maybe I might get a cup of coffee someday in the big leagues or whatever, but it wasn't guaranteed. None of that was guaranteed. And And I always knew I wanted to get into coaching, and it was because of playing at those higher levels where the game really gets dissected and you start really getting the scouting reports and video and advanced analytics of like, like that was like right when they were starting to get into spray charts and shifting and all that stuff. And for me, that was like, I was more excited about the stuff beforehand of like looking at all the video, talking to the manager and the pitching or the pitching coach and the starter about designing like a game plan of how we're going to pitch guys and all that stuff. And like, I got more thrill out of that stuff than like actually playing in the game, right? Like, I almost got to a point where I didn't want to hit. I just wanted to catch. I just wanted to like call a game. Yeah. So I'm like, I'm not trying to go up there and face a guy that is probably a big leaguer, but there's not enough room on the staff. So he's in AAA or he's, he's 10 years and he's like knows how to pitch. And this guy's throwing me front door two-seams in 2-0 counts. And I'm like, no. Yeah, this is like, this is ridiculous. So that was part of the part where I was like, unless like someone invites me to big league spring training or whatever, and I know the Dodgers, like we had talked even about like maybe even getting into like where I was playing but like working my way into like coaching. Yeah, so I was like, that would be kind of cool. And then, and then coach in the offseason, like we talked every offseason, I told him I was interested in coaching and getting into that type of stuff and That was when Will Davis got the job at Lamar, and he's like, hey, would you be interested in being the ops guy? I know it's not on-field coaching, but like all the guys that have coached for me, like, have worked their way through that. And I'm like, I get to come back to LSU, I get to get paid for it, and I get to get back, and I get to get into coaching, which is what I want to do, right? This window probably isn't very, very long that I can actually do this. So I was like, I think it's time, I'm gonna go ahead and do it. I'm at the time, I was probably 20, I guess I was 26. Yeah, I remember.

Yeah. And I'm like, offseason, I remember it. Was that going into '15 or '16?

This would have been going into '16.

'16.

Yeah. So I'm like, it's not like I'm going to get astronomically better. My bat speed's not going to get any faster. You know what? I'm going to do this. You know, I'm going to, like, and I was at a point mentally where I was ready to get into, because I was, like I said, I was enjoying the other stuff more than the actual playing. And everybody had always told me that, like, you'll know when it's time because you're not enjoying it like you used to. And, and I, and that's where I did it. And, and our, the manager I had in AA was probably the most instrumental in that because he was a little more advanced for his time, right? Before people were like shifting guys and doing stuff like we would talk about that stuff, he'd, we'd find websites where they had like the spray charts because our organization didn't have that stuff. I didn't believe it.

Awesome.

Yeah. So we're like, him and I are in his office going over like spray charts and stuff. So we're looking at how guys hit balls and like trying to reverse engineer it. Yeah. Of like, okay, this guy's hitting everything this way. Like, this is the type of hitter he is. And like, okay, so then these type of pitches will be tough for him.

I'm like, that's incredible.

Oh yeah. So we were nerding out all the time. And then now he's, now he's the bullpen, uh, bullpen coach for the Royals and helps out with like their game planning and stuff like that. So, um, he was the guy that really got me into all this stuff. And ever since then, it's now it's I try to learn everything I can, like whether it's pitching, hitting, whatever it is.

Yeah, you're in that, in that phase of— I mean, you've always been a learner and look and interested in learning and growing and stuff, but it's even more profound now.

But is—

was there a moment— the reason I asked that I'm going to ask this question is because I remember when I was playing in Korea, you said something, you know, that you were more interested in the stuff, like you didn't even want to hit, you just wanted to catch, you wanted to learn the, you know, the game and do all the sprays, all that different stuff. There was a time in my career I was making the most money that I ever made in Korea and I was literally dreading my once a week. I was pitching once a week. I had to go to work once a week and I was like, fuck, man, I'd just rather work out today. I'd rather go do the mental skill, you know, like, yeah, think about pitching rather than actually doing it.

I'd show up to the field like days in AA. This is like 2 to 3 years before I shut it down. Yeah. And I'd go in there and I'd go to see the lineup up on the board and I'd see my name in the lineup and I'd be like, I know.

That's— I mean, I had— I used to be the same way about pitching. It was crazy. And it was like That's when I knew I needed to take just a little step back. That's when the injury happened. Everything happens for a reason. I was like, all right, good. And get my mind right, you know, go find— and now like we've been working together doing things that are making me excited about playing again, where I'm throwing the baseball and it's like, I don't want to stop throwing. Like, right, you know, I'm enjoying this shit. Like, it's like you were texting, you were—

we were—

you were telling me about my bullpen the other day. You were like, dude, I think you're fatigued. And I'm like, I want to keep going. Like, it's fun. Like, you know, I didn't have that at the end. Was there a moment in your career or whatever that you— like a specific moment that the light bulb went off? Because I remember, like I said, seeing you in Round Rock and you're like in the stands talking to your coach about spray charts, pitching coach, no pitchers around, just doing that stuff. And like, this man's going to be in the front office tomorrow.

There's one game that I remember in AAA. Yeah, like I remember like glimpses of games and stuff like that. Like I think I hit a home run. I think I had one AAA home run in the PCL, which is home run city. And but the one game that I vividly remember from like almost start to finish was I was catching Miguel Almonte with, he's with the Royals.

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Kind of up and down AAA big leagues, stupid stuff. We were in Round Rock and we went 1-0, like, and I got— because like, for me, it was like I called what I felt like was like the perfect game in a way. Um, and like everything, like the, the plan going in was great. Like you said, we saw me out there talking to our coach and everything, and like And y'all's team, like, raked. Yeah, y'all hit it so well. So like, it's 0-0, we score, I think, in like the 7th inning, it's 1-0. And then, uh, Scott Alexander comes in, he's in the bullpen, guy for the Dodgers now. Stupid sinker from the left side, but he struggled to command it and he's like, starts walking some guys, get bases loaded with nobody out, and we strike out the side, like finish the game. Yeah, I'm like, I'm in Round Rock, my hometown area, like, okay. And that thing is like I don't even remember what I did at the plate. I don't even remember at bats, right? But I remember like sitting up there talking to him about that stuff all in games. Like, I remember like, I almost remember some of like, uh, Ryan Rua was on the team, remember facing him, like pitch, how to pitch him. Like, remember that, all that stuff. Yeah. And that was just, and that was like a, the like glaring moment of like, okay, maybe we're getting towards the end of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I could definitely, I was like thinking like, okay, maybe I'm gonna get into like catching coordinator in pro ball, right? Like maybe even be a pitching coach. Yeah, honestly, there was a point where that's what I was thinking.

That's why I'm asking. Like, I saw you more of as a pitching coach even, right? And, and that'll get into like the next part of your career.

Yeah, yeah. So I remember when I took over the ops role, um, I remember, so I was— when it happened, it all happened so fast. Like, season's getting started, I'm coming back to Baton Rouge, and, uh, I talked to Mikey Mautuk in the offseason about, um, because he— we'd worked out together with Colby, and, uh, he was saying that he had a room open. He's like, hey, would you want to like live there? I'm like, oh yeah, that'd be, that'd be perfect. I live there in the offseason. Well, then coach talks to me in the offseason, I take the job, and I'm ops guy, and I'm sitting there on the couch like home alone by myself like watching whatever, and my, my guy that was my agent in pro ball and everything calls me and he's like, hey, uh He's like, you probably won't get it, but would you want to put your name in for the pitching coach job at Boston College? Wait, what? I'm like, they do realize I was a catcher, right? He's like, well, yeah, but like they love ex-catchers, right? And like, they like, like, so one of the, one of the guys that's an assistant there knew my manager in AA, and he's like, I know you probably won't be able to hire him, but the best guy available for you guys to hire is Micah Gibbs. Yeah. And I'm like, what? I'm I've never coached pitchers before. And he's like, he's like, you know enough, like you'll be able to figure it out. And, and it was funny because it, like, I think about it now and it's like, I was a hitting coach for a year.

Yeah.

But like, and whether you're qualified or not, like, I probably actually know more about pitching, catching, that stuff, because that's what I loved and that's what I like devoted all my time to than the hitting side of it.

If I close my eyes and fast forward 10 to 15 years, I see the game of baseball changing in such a way that analytics are so prevalent that I see you being a major or a high-level pitching executive, you know, like whether that means on-field in a uniform coaching the pitchers out in the bullpen and giving them the water and towel and being like, you know, the hands-on guy, or if that means being like the bullpen guy with a, with an iPad and being, you know, or I don't know, but I see that version of you at the highest level because I see the game changing into analytics and combined now with the efforts that you're making to learn about the biomechanical side of things. I think it's game, you know, I think your future is going to be, is going to be incredible. It's going to be fun to watch, you know.

I appreciate that. And that's the hard part, I think, for me is I'm torn on a daily basis because it's like I feel like I know the hitting side, right? I feel like I know the pitching side and I love both. Yeah. So it's, it's almost like a—

you don't want to pigeonhole yourself into one category, right?

So it's a daily battle. Where do I, where do I, which, which route do I go? So I think right now, like right now, the director of player development thing is great because I can help both sides. Um, but, but that's the, that's definitely the hardest part because, uh, like you said, so like the Red Sox have a guy, uh, Bannister is one of their coaches and he sits in the locker room during the games, but he sits in there and he watches. So they have this system, uh, it's Kena. Uh, of course I would forget the name of it. Uh, but it's a, it's a camera system they have and it literally like does the biomechanics in game. Of the pitchers on the mound. The Red Sox have it. I was reading it in this book.

Is the Kinematics, uh, it's not Kinematics, it's the brand.

It's the type, right? The company is called something, something, but it is Kinematics.

Nice.

The, the technology. And so he sits in there and literally like watches that during the game from the clubhouse and watches that, and then like the, the TrackMan data like in real life to like see what adjustments need to be made, like all that stuff. So like, like you said, like there's so many— I think Major League Baseball, there's some teams that are very much ahead of everybody.

Yeah.

And I think you can just look at the standings and figure out who those teams are because they're putting so much money into the stuff that you don't see, the research and development, the, the, the extra coaches that you don't see in the dugout.

Yep.

That—

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Those teams are way, way, way ahead of everybody because they're Putting money into what I always kind of thought of that teams need to do, that some— that these teams are doing, is they're creating a, a group or a coach or a, like, a section of people that meet in the middle where they understand the old school they played and they understand the new stuff, the technology, right? So now you have some combo. Yeah, so whether it's a guy that played in the big leagues which most of these guys are, there's some of them that played up to AA or AAA, but they played like professional baseball. So they have the ability to go into a clubhouse with some respect.

Yes.

Where the coaches will listen to them because they understand. Yes. They understand the part of like the Dodgers were a big example, I think, in the World Series where like they sat a few guys because the analytics said to. Right. It's like, are you saying Cody Bellinger? Yeah. This guy's going to be an MVP. Yeah. Yeah. Like, why are we sitting? They go, oh, well, the analytics say this. And it's like, Okay, there's that, but then there's sometimes where it's like, that's our 4-hole hitter, it's our best hitter.

Yeah, the guy's there.

Yeah, right. Like, I could, I could care less like what the analytics say. Like, okay, Kike Hernandez might be a better matchup against this guy, but it's still Cody Bellinger, right? So like, you have those guys in the middle that can kind of, I guess, test both sides and can say like, okay, like there's some truth to this, like we need to do this, right? But also say like, hey, like this guy's on a hot streak, like feeling good. We got to play this guy. Like the old school thought of like guys on a hot streak where the analytics guys don't believe there's such thing as a hot streak, right? They don't. But the problem is, is like the numbers don't take into account the mental side of the game.

100%.

Someone might be like a bad relationship, like getting a divorce, family issues, family, kids sick. They don't—

you can't—

analytics don't pick that stuff up. So I think that's where there's some— there's so much value in a middle ground. And I know there's a few teams out there that are already doing that. And the teams that can get somebody and figure out, like we were talking about earlier, how to, how to develop somebody and get the most out of them. So take a great player and make them elite. Take, like, take a Bellinger who had a great year and make him an MVP, right? And take a, like we were talking about, Garrett Cole. Take a Garrett Cole, make him a, an ace, and turn him into a the best ace in the big leagues, like be the best starter in Major League Baseball. And I think we all know who that team is. And some of these teams are just that good at figuring out how to close that gap from great to elite.

100%.

And, and I think that's where the game is kind of going. Talk to me—

we're running out of time here. We'll do another session literally all about kinematics, biomechanics.

I really want to like— flying by.

I know, I want to dissect, like really get into that, but Leave our listeners, leave our people with— I'm going to hit you with a bunch of stuff here. We have some time, so don't feel rushed. But I really hope that you— that LSU— LSU is starting to understand Coach Minary, everybody's starting to understand the importance of player development as a holistic thing. I know we're starting to invest a little bit of money into a lab and developing different, you know, parts of our game for LSU. Talk to me about how you see that part going for LSU as far as the player development side. I really hope, you know, from an LSU fan perspective, as a friend, as, as everything, that LSU lets you run with this because I think you're that talented and that smart, and I think you're doing the right things as far as educating yourself. So talk to our listeners about the steps you're taking to build that, where you see it going, and then, um, you know, where you see your career going and where people can find some of your work and things that you, that you kind of like put out there for people to, to absorb.

Right, so lot of things there, but yeah, sorry. No, no, we'll just say—

so you're just killing it. So I just wanted to like just be like, go.

Okay, well, so, so just kind of a little, a little thing about how I see it is baseball is so far behind in pro ball, college. Like, there's— I think in 10 years we're going to look at it and be like, wow, right, this is so much different. So the way we approach baseball is so ridiculous. And if you look at golf, you look at Formula 1, auto racing, stuff like that, who's in charge of all of it? It's companies, right? With tons of money. Corporations. Who's in charge of baseball? Owners. Yeah. Or a head coach in college. So if you look at golf and, and auto racing, all that money, where is that going to? Like, obviously they pay the driver, but they're also paying an entire pit crew. But all of the money, the majority of the money is going into research and development. Yep. So everything is going into how can we make the car faster, how can we make the driver more efficient in what he does. Right. Golf, they are fitting golf clubs to the player.

Right.

That's the thing they've done for years. Shoes, they're realizing majority of people, like, you can go to the— you can go to Dillard's, get the little shoe sizer thing, find out like there's a lot of people out there, their left foot and right foot aren't the same size, but what do you do? You buy shoes in the same size. Everybody does it. No one ever thinks about it. Yeah. Golfers at the highest level, the Kepkas, the Woods, the McIlroys, all those guys have customized shoes. Like the soles are different on each feet based on like the way they swing or how long their legs are. Yeah. But in baseball, we grab a bat and we just swing it because it feels good. What? Yeah. So that's where I think there's a lot of people that are kind of getting into some of this stuff.

And so basically you're saying we're scraping the surface of what we can get into.

Like this, the scraping is the scraping, like that's not even a word, but I knew what you meant. Yeah. So, and that's the thing is nothing that we do is fitted around that. We're just like, well, let's just get the best players, right? Well, what if we can take average players and make them that much better, right? What if we can take great players and make them elite or the best ever.

Yeah.

So a lot of that goes into like a story of a guy that, that I'd talked to that's in the golf avenue, did a test on a Major League Baseball player, probably the best hitter in today's game. Okay. So I'll let you figure that out on your own. Loves golf.

Okay.

He plays golf every single day that he can.

Yeah.

When he's in a slump, he gets to the field like an hour early, like an hour before the game, right? Which is later than he never ever does. And he goes and plays golf until it's time to go play the game. That's how he like fixes his swing. Yeah. Is he plays golf. Okay. So the guy that I'm talking to brings this guy to his facility because he wants to like look at the baseball stuff and see if it can help him with golf. So he calls the guy through his agent. 'Cause he knows he loves golf and he's like, hey, we'll fit you for clubs, brand new clubs, whatever you want. We just wanna get some data from you for baseball. Would you do that? Said, yeah, absolutely. Shows up to the place and he was like, all right, just grab your bat. He's like, I know you wanna get the, like, you wanna get these clubs, you wanna golf, take a few swings for us and then we'll get the golf thing going. And he's like, okay, well you have a bat. And he's like, well, you didn't bring a bat. He's like, no, I just thought you guys would have one. So you wanna do this testing? And he's like, well, yeah, we have bats, but like, you don't wanna bring your own bat? And he's like, oh no, it doesn't matter. I'll find what feels good. Right. And they're like, whoa, whoa. Cause like, could you imagine?

Like, that's when the light, that's when the light bulb went off right there. Yeah.

So we, I've been talking to him a bunch and a couple other guys, certain companies, like, cause there's some people that are really going to get into this. And I think this is where you're going to see a lot of development going forward, but it's like, could you imagine Brooks Koepka coming in to like do some stuff with, with golf and not bringing his golf clubs? Right. Like if he didn't have his golf clubs with him, he wouldn't swing.

He wouldn't touch anything.

Yeah. Like, no, why would I ever do that? And that's where I think we're— I think baseball is going to go. And that's where I would kind of almost like to encourage LSU, like, to be the first ones. Because a little bit about the player development position, it's paid by camps and our booster club. It's not even an LSU— I'm not even an LSU employee. So that's something that I think if we want to take that next step, that, like, that's something we start kind of doing a little more looking into because that's where you can really make a difference. And there's a, there's a pitching coach at an SEC school that's now a big league pitching coach, like, went boom boom straight there, right? Like, right from SEC, like, in the dugout. He's their pitching coach last year. He was on the team that went to Omaha and lost to Oregon State. Yep. And he is taking players, like we were talking about earlier, that were great pitchers in college, had great careers when they got to the MLB, hit a little lull, and then now they're leading their division.

Yeah, we were talking before the show about Kyle Gibson making it, you know, making it.

And it's crazy because when you have the right people and the people with the right knowledge, they can take good players and make them great, and great players and make them elite. Yep. By fixing biomechanical things, fitting them correctly for certain things.

I mean, adjusting to their individual needs and customizing their workouts, their training, their different things.

Because that's the thing is if you have a guy that's like, like I have pretty good flexibility, I always have. Yeah. So I don't need to go. I don't need to go do a whole lot of stretching, right? I need to lift or do things for like stabilization and stuff like for my, my body, right? Or someone that's real tight. What do they need to do? They need to go stretch all the time. Yes. There's no reason for them to squat. There's no reason for them to bench. Exactly. All that stuff. So using all this information to customize it for everybody, I think the customization is probably the best word for the whole thing. Because there's no— like, baseball's always been a one-size-fits-all type situation. Like, for us, we feel like we have it great at LSU because the guys can come in and pick out a bat, right? Like any custom bat. Yeah. Well, what's a custom bat? Well, it's whatever colors you want, but it's like, oh, here's a 33, 33.5, and a 34. Cool. Oh yeah, this one feels good. I like the way this feels. Barrel feels good. Okay. Yeah, I'll take this one.

There's so many— so much potential that we have Like we talked about, you mean you saw the Axe Bat this year, right? Make it— or is that what it's called? Yeah. Um, make a difference. And so there's so many different things. And like you said, our game is so traditional where it's like, oh, that's been like that forever, so like why change it? Or, you know, why, why? So we're just, we're just getting to the point where we're just tapping into this potential of like evolving our game. I think it's why you see guys start— I mean, obviously they've come out and said something about the balls being wound tighter, but I don't think it's an accident that guys are hitting more homers. They're understanding their swings. They're understanding what makes the ball travel more. We're understanding technology. We're understanding, you know, pitchers are throwing harder. There's more strike— like everything's evolving. Our game is just getting— our players are getting better. Like that's—

that's like some people think the game's boring, right? Homers and strikeouts. Well, no, it's because pitchers want to strike people out.

That's the dominating factors of our game.

And hitters want to hit home runs, right? So they're both going to try to do that, right? So you're both going to get more of that, right? What I think people need to watch— watch the playoffs, because what you're going to see is you're going to see the type pitchers that come in that have stuff from data that they know they can beat people with, right? So it's going to go away from like, you're— it's going to get even more strikeouts.

Yes, it's going to get laser focused on competition and winning in that moment. So all the data analytics are going to apply even more.

If you think Justin Verlander's going at certain guys like how he would in the playoffs, oh yeah, you're fucked up, you're wrong. Yeah, no, no, because when you get to the playoffs, you're going to see guys come in, you're going to be like, oh, this guy's throwing 94, like, why is he beating everybody? Oh, it's the spin rate, the vertical break, the whatever. Like, all these guys are gonna— you're gonna start seeing it even more. And like, it's just a constant battle of like, with the pitcher— like, pitchers are ahead of hitters right now, 100%. Hitters are slowly coming, yeah, coming together and kind of getting towards, uh, figuring stuff out. But from the pitching standpoint, they're way ahead. And, and like I said, with baseball being so far behind— TrackMan, everybody knows TrackMan now with the exit speed and all that stuff. Like, that's been in golf for over a decade, right? Like, baseball's starting to pick up on it. Like, we're basically just seeing— like, I think people need to look at golf a lot because I think we're just kind of copycatting what they're doing. Yeah. And like figuring out how it applies best to baseball. And there's just so many things that are out there that people don't even realize yet that can be, uh, unturned, I guess.

That's awesome. Well, I think we should have another show just about that kind of stuff, more biomechanical. Let's talk about— we'll really dive into some of the Baseball U stuff that you're, uh, OnBaseU, some more of the analytics stuff and the biomechanical stuff, because you've been helping me with some of the things that I want to do to, you know, I have an opportunity to play with Team Italy and maybe play again next year. So I know you've been helping me with that and I know it would add tremendous value to our guys, to our, you know, our listeners and people that listen to the show. So you're going to have to block off another, another section for us in a couple of weeks or something. We'll do something else.

Yeah, we just got started.

All right, good, man. Well, thank you for the time. It was awesome. Micah Gibbs, you're the man. Thank you for coming on the show, dude.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Awesome.

All right, well, that wraps up our show. Wish we had more time, but thank you guys so much for listening. If you guys like the show, make sure to share it with one other person or reach out to tell us what you liked or what you'd be interested to hear more about. If you guys are watching on YouTube, make sure to click that subscribe button, and don't forget to check us out on Instagram and Facebook with the handle @upandin.show. We'll be collaborating often and providing multiple training, nutrition, and supplement giveaways ways throughout the year. We will constantly update you guys with our past, current, and future guests. You guys can also check out Jared and I's personal LinkedIn pages to find out more educational content that we're going to produce throughout the year. Or if all else fails, just go to the website at theupandinshow.com.

Thanks again, guys.

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