Saving wolves together- Interview with Wolf Conservation Center and Pilots to the Rescue

Sounds good. Hi, Michael Schneider.

Hi, nice to see you, Rebecca. Next, you too.

Can't see you, but I know you can hear me.

That's the important part.

Yes, I can hear you.

Okay, great. Thanks everybody for the— their patience while we work out the technical difficulties. All right, so thank you so much for allowing me to interview you guys. And really what I wanted to do is try to give an understanding to your audience why it's so important for you guys to partner with Pilots to Rescue. But before we do that, I wanted to get a little bit of background about your role and how long you've been with WCC.

Sure, so for those of you who don't know, my name is Rebecca Bowes. And I'm the curator here at the Wolf Conservation Center. We're located about an hour north of New York City. We were founded in 1999, and I have been here since 2000. So I've been here for 21 years. I started as a volunteer. At the time, our founders were running everything. There was no staff, and we had 3 of our original ambassador wolves and very big dreams. So fast forward 21 years, I was one of the first people hired, uh, started out as a part-time position and then morphed into a full-time position. And now we have, oh, I don't know, 11 or 12 full-time people. We have 36 wolves, um, and we're fulfilling all of those what were dreams when I first started here. And as the curator of the center, I'm essentially in charge of our collection, just as a curator at a museum is in charge of, uh, say, an art collection. I'm in charge of our living collection, and that entails a number of hats, from their veterinary care, enrichment, nutrition program, acquiring food. I am on the— I'm the IR, or institutional representative, for our involvement with the Mexican and red wolf species survival plan. I'm also on the management group for both of those programs. I have a wonderful set of volunteers that assist me with with numerous duties that I need to do here for caring for the wolves, for watering and feeding. So yeah, so lots of hats, but all wonderful hats. So that's kind of in a nutshell what I do here.

Okay, great. Thank you. And why is saving wolves so important? And how dire is the population?

Yeah, so wolves, of course, as any plant, animal, or insect, every Everybody has their rightful place on this, on this planet. Of course, the wolf in particular though, they are, as some of you may know, they are considered a keystone species or an umbrella species. So a wolf keeps an environment or an ecosystem in balance or keeps it healthy. Yellowstone National Park is actually a great example that we use to illustrate what a wolf, what the wolf does once in it's put back in an ecosystem where it once roamed and where it belongs. Yellowstone, for example, prior to the wolf's reintroduction in 1995, there were a lot of ungulates, which are hoofed animals, bison and elk, that would eat and eat until nothing remained, and then they would move on, and they wouldn't allow the plants and shrubs and trees to grow as they should. And once the wolf was reintroduced, everything sort of came back under that umbrella known as the wolf. So the beaver came back, the mouse, the hawks, eagles, everything sort of fell into balance. So the wolf is extremely important in keeping ecosystems healthy. So that's why, as I said, all animals are equally as important, but the wolf represents quite a bit. And when you have a wolf in an ecosystem, everything else underneath him or her will live as they should. So wolves in particular, and I'm going to focus on the red wolf because that's who you've had the— we've had the great privilege of working with you on. The red wolf currently is not in great shape in the wild. There are about 18 known individuals. In between the wild and captivity, there are fewer than 400 on the planet. These wolves come from 14 founders, so the living population today comes from these animals. So they obviously need our help, and they need your help.

Absolutely. I'm just curious, because most of the work that we do is rescuing dogs, of course. How are wolves and the domesticated dogs different?

Yeah, that's a good question. So wolves and dogs, they say dogs are 98% wolf. You often wonder though how a chihuahua or a pug comes from a wolf. But genetically, I'm sorry, physiologically, dogs and wolves are almost identical. Our wolves here, whenever we have to do veterinary checks, the way we handle our wolves is the exact same way you would handle your dog when it comes to blood work, vaccines, etc. The big difference between wolves and dogs is behavior. We created the dog to want to serve us, to want to be our companions, to want to work for us. We have our police dogs, we have bomb-sniffing dogs, dogs for seeing— seeing eye dogs. The wolf, on the other hand, they have no interest in serving us. They have no interest in doing what they're told. They will not sit under your table while you eat your dinner quietly. They're just not meant to do that. They're wild animals that have a job in the environment, and that's where they belong. So oftentimes people want to get wolves as pets or wolf-dog crosses, but wolves, they belong in the environment and they're very good at doing their job. So whenever we, whenever we come across someone saying they want to get a wolf as a pet, we always say get a dog. Dogs are man's best friend. As we've created them to be, and wolves have their rightful place in the ecosystem. So to circle back, behavior, that's the biggest difference between wolves and dogs.

Okay, great, thanks for that. And I do want to thank all your viewers, especially the ones that donated. It's much appreciated. As you know, flying is not inexpensive, and we survive solely on donations. So thank you. To your followers and your audience for donating. One way that people can help Wolf Conservation Center and Pilots to Rescue is by sharing this livestream. So whoever is watching this, whether it be live or later, if you could share this to your page and your followers, then you can spread the message of the work that we do together to help save the endangered wolf population. So on that note, Rebecca, I wanted to spend a couple minutes talking about the actual rescue work that we did with you. To date, we've done 3 red wolf rescues, and I wanted to ask you, what is having access to this aviation resource— why is it so invaluable to you, and why can't you just send a wolf on a cargo like on Delta?

I can't say enough about what you provide for us. I truly, I cannot say enough. These animals each and every animal is so important to the population, to the species at large. And so how we treat individual animals is obviously extremely important for that individual and for the group as a whole. We work very hard here at the center to keep these wolves wild, so that if should they get their chance to be released, they're prepared for that. We feed a whole carcass diet here. Most of our residents actually live off exhibit, and the only way for people to see them is through our webcams that you can access through our website or through platforms like Twitch. I barely see them and I take care of them, but we know if a wolf gets chosen for release into the wild, they have the best chance of surviving. So, so when we— so every year we— wolves are traded among facilities like ours. We're part of the Species Survival Plan, or SSP, and that includes a lot of zoos and nature centers and wolf centers like, like ours. And so every year, often wolves have to be traded back and forth to fulfill breeding recommendations, to be traded for companionship, for release, a number of reasons. Oftentimes they either need to be driven or flown. We can put and have, and it is a way that we do transport wolves, is putting them on commercial flights. Is not ideal. It's not our number one option. Having Piles to the Rescue available to us is, is a luxury, and it's what the wolves deserve. Flying commercially, you have to be there hours in advance. There's often a layover, flights get canceled. There's a lot of elements that are out of your control. When I drive a wolf to the airport to, say, Delta or any other commercial carrier, I have to let that wolf go into somebody's hands who is not necessarily trained to deal with the wild animals. Yeah, of course they're trained to deal with animals, but the animal is no longer in my care. So when we get to fly with Pilots to the Rescue, I get to accompany these wolves on these missions, and that is worth its weight in gold. We capture the wolf, which can be an ordeal. Minutes up to the flight, we get in the car, we go to the plane, we meet the plane, and we get on the plane. That doesn't happen with commercial flights. And the bonus is that I can fly with the wolf, so I can monitor the wolf during flight. God forbid there's an emergency or emergency landing, I can be there to deal with the situation. And once we get to our destination, I can be there to hand off the wolf to whoever we're meeting and know that that wolf has gotten there safely. And like I said, in the manner that they deserve. So working with you guys has been such a privilege and a pleasure. You're always so professional, especially through COVID. We've dealt with a lot of challenges and and hoops to jump through, but you're always— Michael, because I've dealt with you specifically, you're always right there. You always email me back immediately, and that, that's huge. I really, I really, I cannot express enough how much, how, how much you guys do for us, um, and, and we're thankful for it, and these wolves are thankful for it, um, because what you do, you're contributing to the larger cause.

Well, we love the work that you do, and we'll support you any way we can. Um, thank you for that explanation. Uh, Arthur Mühling is asking Related to the previous question, if he was there with the wolves, could he approach them like you would a dog, so to speak? Could you approach a wolf?

So here at the center?

He didn't specify. I think because we were talking about how dogs and wolves were different. I guess if he— maybe if he was at the center or even encountered a wolf in the wild, is it safe? Yeah.

I'll address both. So at the center, we have 3 what we call ambassador wolves or socialized wolves, Alea, Zephyr, and Nakai. That are here. They are our true educators here. So when people come and visit us, that's who they get to meet, that's who they get to see. There is no physical interaction with them, but they are 5 to 10 feet away from them on the fence. These wolves will howl with you. You can look these wolves in the eye. These wolves are the ones that change minds. They're the ones that are forefront of our education team here. So if this question, whoever asked this question, if you were to come visit us at the center, Because they're socialized, we've raised them from their pup— since they were pups, we've essentially— they're essentially imprinted on humans, but it only goes so far. They're still not in any way like dogs, and we of course never treat them like dogs, but they won't run away because when they see people, for them, it's an exciting event. It's sort of a form of enrichment, actually. Our wild population here, so our red and Mexican wolves that belong to the SSP, or Species Survival Plan, We have— they have a very different method of husbandry. It's a completely hands-off way of dealing with them. We do not raise them when they're pups. The parents do all the hand rearing. We— and like I said, most of these wolves actually reside off exhibit. We have spacious 1-acre enclosures here that are naturally wooded, and they— all they want to do is get away from us. So if you were to come and visit us here, we do have a pair of Mexican wolves and red wolves on exhibit, but whether they choose to be seen or not can be hit or miss. Sometimes you can get a lucky glimpse of them, but they by no means will come trotting up to the fence looking for your attention. In the wild, consider yourself lucky to see a wolf. I love to travel. I love wildlife travel. I love photography. And Yellowstone National Park is actually the— if you want to see a wolf, that's the place to go. And if you're lucky, you'll see one through a scope from a very, very far distance. Healthy wild wolves want nothing to do with people. Even the wolves here that were raised in captivity, I'm talking about our Mexican and red wolves, they still have an innate fear of people, as they should, because that's what will keep them safe in the wild. So if you happen to come across a wolf in the wild, say you're in remote Alaskan wilderness, grab your camera because that's a really special experience.

Awesome. And I do want to remind the people watching that this is a Q&A, so if you have a question, just put it in the comment section. It took me a while to get that screen up, but I can see your questions, so please ask away. Brian Laulka is asking if we have any plans to fly in an Arctic wolf. He misses Atka.

Oh, Atka. That was one exceptional wolf. For those who don't know, Atka was an Arctic wolf. He was a socialized wolf that we had here that was a traveling wolf. Atka was very unusual. Atka is like lightning striking twice in the same spot. We do get ambassador wolves from time to time to keep our education pack going. We have no plans right now to get any ambassador wolves because our pack, given the age, the dynamics, everything's quite stable right now. We will perhaps in the future get an Arctic wolf. Can't guarantee though it'll be like Akia. Like I said, Akia was one in a million. It's nice to talk about him though.

Got it. Eva and Connie, thank you for your donations. Guys, these life-saving flights are very expensive, so appreciate any donation that you can make. Also want to remind you to share this livestream because it's a great way to get the message out about the work that we do. And going back, Rebecca, briefly, I wanted to touch upon the 3 wolves that we rescued with you. The first one, could you tell us about Jack, the first rescue we did from North Carolina? And what did it mean that Jack had 4 pups?

So Jack is also known as M1606. They get names here at the center that are usually named by our supporters or our donors or by our staff, but they also have an alphanumeric name. So just so everybody understands, Jack is also M1606. He was the 1,606th wolf to be born into the program. So Jack, at the time, which I believe was 2017, got a breeding recommendation to be paired with one of our females here. Her name is Charlotte F2121, and he at the time was living in Manteo, North Carolina. He was with the US Fish and Wildlife Service, and based on his genetics and the genetics of our female, it was recommended that he come here to breed with her. And that's when I contacted— I found Pilots to the Rescue, and that's where our relationship began. And so we flew down, it was with Patrick the pilot, it was a really fun trip. We flew down, picked up Jack, and and brought him here, and Jack met his new lady. And then shortly after, they had a litter of 4 puppies. And we should actually call this pack the Pilots to the Rescue Pack, because ironically, all the wolves you've worked with are Jack's offspring. So it's kind of funny. So Jack still lives here. He lives with— still lives with the female Charlotte. Jack is now 14 years old. He's one of our oldest residents here, but he's in great shape. He's still in charge of his kids, though the pack has shrunken because we've We've moved some others to other facilities and to the wild, but he's here. And again, thanks to Pyle to the Rescue, he traveled here in style.

That's great. Thank you. We were happy to do it. Hank Wood is asking, what are your long-term plans to repopulate wolves in the US?

Our— the Wolf Center's long-term plans? Well, as a facility that houses and breeds and holds Mexican and red wolves, We as a facility don't determine when wolves are released, how many are released. That, we do work with the US Fish and Wildlife Service. That is how those decisions are made. Because our wolves reside off exhibit and live a very wild existence eating natural prey, we are a key facility to choose wolves to be released into the wild from. So we have a great relationship with the US Fish and Wildlife Service. The wolves here, like I said, we have currently 36 wolves on this property. We only own 3 of them. The rest of the population, do belong to the US Fish and Wildlife Service, so we do have to follow strict protocols with them. And if they get a determination to either breed or transfer or are released, we have to follow those, those protocols. I can certainly make recommendations, and when it comes to choosing a wolf for release, as we will get to, I look at their behavior and I do— I can choose which animal I think will be best fit for the wild based on their behavior. But big picture, unfortunately, we don't We can contribute to some of the decision-making, but we're not the final answer, if that's answering your question.

Got it. Connie Debrado is asking, are there any pups at the WCC this year?

Unfortunately, no, not this year. Every year, you just never know with these animals. One year we had over 20 pups born at the center. There was puppies coming out of every corner. Unfortunately, this year our breeding pairs were not successful. It is June 9th, we are at the very tail end of possibility, so I won't take it completely off the table, but it's just about off the table, unfortunately. But we'll see what the recommendations are for next year and we'll try again.

Okay, and speaking of offspring, Jack's offspring Marley was the second wolf that we rescued in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Can you tell us an update on Marley? Was Marley successfully matched?

Yeah, so F2237, she's Jack's daughter. She did get a breeding recommendation to go to the Reflection Riding Arboretum and Nature Center in Chattanooga, Tennessee. They're one of our colleagues, they're a wonderful facility. She was paired with a male for breeding, and to my knowledge, no, they did not have puppies this year. However, we often find when we put— wolves together, males and females, it's essentially an arranged marriage based on their genetics. There's a lot of biology obviously that goes behind why a male and female choose one another, and those are answers we probably will never know. So all we can do is put animals together based on genetics. So oftentimes it takes a couple of seasons for wolves to have puppies. Sometimes they have puppies right off the bat, sometimes they don't, and then we have to reconfigure pairs. So this was her first season with him. She's young. She did leave home for the first time because she came from her natal pack. So I'd say, you know, definitely, hopefully we'll give her another year to acclimate more, become more bonded with her male, and fingers crossed they have puppies next year. We'll certainly keep you posted if they do.

Fingers crossed. Got to keep the cycle going, right? We got to get more wolves to rescue. Sharon Markle is asking, is Alawa, Nikai, and Zephyr at WCC right now?

Aleo and Nakai and Zephyr, yes, of course. They're actually right down that way in their enclosure. We're filming here in our, in our campfire area for where we have overnights. But yeah, no, they don't leave the center. Like I said, they are our education animals and they will be here forever.

Awesome. Sarah Jean is asking if she can purchase WCC and Pilots to Rescue polo shirts. I'm sure my answer is the same as yours. Yes, you can on our website.

Yeah, this polo shirt, uh, we don't sell polo shirts. We do have a lot of other merchandise. We have t-shirts and sweatshirts and stuffed animals and hats and all sorts of good stuff. Polo shirts specifically, we don't sell, but Pilots to the Rescue does have polo shirts. So I would definitely urge you to go grab one of those and come check out our site, and there's lots of great t-shirts and wolf swag.

Gina Marie Usher is asking, is Jack too old to try breeding again next year?

Yeah, that's a good question. He is 14 this spring. He's one of our senior residents. We did allow him to remain with, with Charlotte, F2121, for the breeding season. We did see a lot of behavior from him towards her. Unfortunately, we didn't witness a tie. When wolves breed Wolves are— to give a little background— wolves are monoestrous, meaning they breed once a year. And that's typically in January, February, and as far as early March sometimes. And like dogs, they have to tie or connect with one another for a period of time for a successful breeding to occur. So as most of you know, we have our wonderful cameras to spy on everyone. We did not witness a tie. He is an older gentleman, so I'm sure the quality of his sperm is not that great. So I would say he's likely retiring at this point. But he got to remain with his female, which is fantastic. So they're a nice little happy pack off exhibit.

Awesome. And Joe Valico, he's curious how Trumpet's doing health-wise.

Oh, she's doing great. Yeah, she's doing great. She's living with her family and her mate. They were a breeding pair, or they were a pair slated to breed again this year. And they were not successful. Again, we're not sure why. Maybe COVID impacted things for them, you know. But no, she's happy and living a wonderful life with her family off exhibit.

Awesome. Well, I wanted to— we're getting towards the end here, but I wanted to ask you about a really special rescue we did recently, the last one. And it was special in many ways, not just because we flew Wolf to be released, but because it was also the first time we got to fly together. And I would imagine a lot of the people watching this live stream would be curious, what's it like to fly in a small plane? Because I would imagine a lot of people haven't, and you've experienced that now several times. So maybe you could talk about Devin, releasing him in the wild, and also what it was like to go on a flight with us.

Sure. Yeah, my first flight was with Patrick, which was wonderful. And yeah, it was wonderful getting to know you, Michael, and getting to know your— this plane that you have now. Personally, I really— this is a perk. This is a job perk for me, being able to fly in these small planes, or any plane, with these wolves. I have a lot of fun with it. And again, you know, just being able to meet you at the airport, get that wolf on that plane, and take off without any feelings of security or questions or delays, it's invaluable, as you said. So the plane was wonderful, very smooth flight. Flight, Devin was situated right in front of me in his crate, and I was able to look in on him every second if I chose to. I did, which I believe we posted when we released the news. I did take some video of him in his crate, and you can see that he's very relaxed, very quiet, not stressed at all, which was really nice to see because, like I said, when we go on commercial flights, I don't know how these wolves are doing. Generally, wolves are pretty petrified. And so they kind of hunker down in their crates and wait until the next thing. So we do certainly have their fear in our favor when we are working with them and transferring them to other facilities. But it was nice to see it in person with, with Devin in particular. So Devin, the red wolf program got in touch and said that they were looking for a wolf for release. And we have a number of red wolves here, as many of you know. And I felt that they were looking for a certain age and a certain gender. And so based on that, I felt that Devin in particular, M-2236, fit the bill the best. He was born here at the Wolf Conservation Center. He's been eating nothing but whole carcass roadkill deer. He was raised by his parents and he had siblings. Wolves that get to grow up with siblings and in multi-generational packs, it's the way— it's the natural way for a wolf to grow up. So it gives them the best chance going forward. So it was really easy to choose which wolf would have had this great opportunity. So we determined the date, had to jump through some COVID hoops, and met you at the airport in New Jersey, and we were off. It was, it was a lot of fun. We got him there safely. We met the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service there, and they took him to his new location. So what happens with these wolves is they're put in an acclimation pen. So he met a female from another facility, also chosen similarly to how I chose him here. They were put in an acclimation pen in the area where they are going to be released. It's a temporary pen, but ideally we want these wolves to bond with one another first, and then after a couple of months, when the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service deem it the right time, they will open the gates and allow them to release themselves. So currently, I did get an email from my biologist contact down there. He's in the enclosure with his female. They're doing very well. They definitely appear to be bonding, and I'm sure we'll hear when when they're actually released. But it's a big deal. Putting a wolf— this is why we're here, this is why we work so hard, why we do what we do. Being able to send him down there and accompany him down there, you know, the best way he could get down there, I can't say enough about it.

Awesome. Well, it was really a great flight. I guess someone's moderating your feed and they said, "We give wolves wings." Oh, I like that. If we do more wolf flights with you, we might have to steal that saying. Exactly. Well, I don't want to keep you too much longer. Is there anything else that you want to talk about to your audience? How can people help Wolf Conservation Center? Obviously they can donate, they can share this feed. Is there anything else that people, your fans, can do to help you?

Yeah, obviously, you know, we'd love to be able to support our partners, which like Pilot to the Rescue. So, you know, we're all, we're all on the same team here. We're all fighting the good fight. The best thing everyone can do, and I know sometimes you can feel helpless, you can feel like there's nothing you can do. Here we are an hour north of New York City, how can we help wolves? But there's so many things you can do. Obviously follow us in whatever way you can, whether it's joining our mailing list through our our website, follow us on any one of our many social media platforms, share our information, talk about wolves. One of— part of our mission is advocacy. We provide a great platform to keep people up to date with what's going on in the wolf world. It's constantly changing. I can't even keep up with it. But we have great staff here that are always keeping everyone current with up-to-date information and providing ways for people to sign letters, sign petitions, and share, and share information. So the best thing you can do, yeah, is education. Share. If you're able to come and visit us, obviously now that we're finally starting to open, come join one of our programs. We do, thanks to COVID, we have wonderful virtual programs, so it's not limited to coming here on site. You can schedule a virtual program with our Ambassador Wolves anywhere in the world. So those are the things you can do. Support us, whether it's financially or just by spreading the word. Yeah, don't feel helpless because there is a lot of things. Everyone can make a difference if everybody does a little something.

Great. Well, on that note, thank you so much, Rebecca, for joining us today and allowing me to interview you about the great work that you do. We're happy to provide the aviation resources whenever you guys need them. We're looking forward to doing more missions with you guys in the future.

Me too. You know you'll be hearing from me.

Excellent. Have a wonderful day. Thank you, everyone.

Thank you, Michael Schneider.

Bye.