Tomorrow Schools: 7 Microschools Offering a Window Into the Future

We always raised the floor. Kids were not falling through the cracks, kids were doing well, but in the same time as doing that, we often constricted the ceiling of where kids could go. And I think these schools really bust through that glass ceiling and say, like, if this is the right fit for you, if you've found the right place, then the sky's the limit because you'll have the autonomy, the support, the resources that really feed into you as a learner that allows you to

Welcome to The Future of Education. I'm Michael Horn. You're joining the show where we're dedicated to creating a world in which all individuals can build their passions, fulfill their potential, and live lives of purpose. And to help us think through that today, I'm really excited. I've got 4 of my former students. I say former because not only did I teach them several months ago at this point, but they're all graduates now at Harvard. So congratulations to them. Thank you. And I'm really excited to talk to them about their journey. They all made it through the rapid-fire year that is the Harvard Graduate School of Education experience. But welcome, guys. We've got Jason, Matthew, William, Reuben, all just amazing. You're all amazing. You all come from really cool different backgrounds with education. And first, welcome. And then second, I'll say the reason I wanted to talk to you guys is because in the second semester, you chose to do an independent study with me for some, you know, inane reason of wanting to continue to work with me. But you You did it around a series of microschools that are emerging that, in your words, like, start to allow us to question the principles of what is a school? What's the purpose of schooling in this era of AI? What are the things that are most important perhaps? Or how can we think about things perhaps differently from how we have? And you did these deep dives into these 7 microschools around the country and got to visit and spend time in all of them and create some really cool reports and reflections around them. And I wanted to dig deeper with you on the podcast. So, uh, uh, welcome. Um, maybe let's start, just, uh, go around, if you will, the, uh, the proverbial virtual studio and, and just sort of give the thumbnail sketch of who you are, your background, why this was an interesting conversation, uh, for you to, to do research in for an entire semester. And, uh, and we'll start there. So William, why don't you jump in first?

Sure. Yeah. Thank you so much, Michael, for having us. I was a middle school math and history teacher in New York City before coming to the Harvard Graduate School of Education at a charter school. And charters were thought to be the innovation to traditional education when they kind of started gaining momentum. And in my teaching experience there, I enjoyed my time and loved working with the kids, but There was certainly nothing innovative about the role of a teacher in that school. State test was kind of the North Star and seat time regulations and requirements were super strict. And so as AI was coming on the scene in the world of education, I started kind of expecting change in my role, but not seeing anything meaningful. And so came to Harvard to try to better understand where the profession is moving and kind of where schools in general are shifting and evolving and met these 3 great guys in your class in the fall. And we just kind of went 100 miles an hour on this school visits project and it was incredible. So really glad to be here. Excited to keep chatting.

Yeah, let's do it. So Reuben, let's go to you next. Tell us your background. We didn't officially intersect pre-Harvard, but we kind of did because you were at a school that an organization I was a founding board member had funded. So tell us a little bit about your background and how you jumped into this.

Yeah, we were awfully close to running into each other. I spent 3 years at that school as an assistant principal. It was in Richmond, California. I ran the humanities department there. Prior to that, 8 years teaching humanities as well, all around the country, Memphis, Tennessee, San Francisco. Came back to my hometown of Cambridge in the Ed Policy Program. This project really excited me to— my time in schools, I was really just grinding all the time. Like William said, like all of these sort of pressures coming on, coming down from on high, and I was constantly looking at my feet. Doing one step at a time. And I was just so excited to get in and see schools, um, and some of the things that they were able to do with teaching. And really, for me, this project was all about like opening my eyes to what else was out there. Um, it, it's so hard when you're in the classroom, when you're in the grind of a school day, to really take time to look around at the other amazing things that are happening around the country in schools. And They're there, they're happening all over the place. And so this was an awesome opportunity to do just that.

It's, and what you just said really resonates for me. I'm struck constantly by how many teachers, when you describe sort of personalization or things that are possible, they're like, there's no way that could happen. I'm like, have you ever been to a Montessori school? They're like all over the place in your community. And to your point, almost no one gets into a school that looks different from their own. So it's very hard to find the time to see those. All right, let's, let's go to the man from Australia, down under, Matthew. Talk to us about your background getting into this space and in education, coming to Harvard then, and your journey. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me.

So I was a mathematics teacher, high school teacher in Canberra, Australia the last couple of years. A lot of my work has been around the human skills of learning and growing and developing. And so I was working a lot on self-perception and self-efficacy within mathematics. And that really led me to this human development pathway and program. What really fascinated me with this project and what kind of brought me together with, not only to your class, but also with the other guys, was this idea that if school looked different, what capabilities can we grow in the students when we are given some time and some space to very clearly teach the skills that are incredibly important, that are going to be more important with the way that the world and technology is developing. So, uh, it's, yeah, it's, it's honestly just been a pleasure, um, to not only be in a different country and see, see how things are done differently, but also really kind of, um, be at the forefront of what, um, yeah, innovation is looking like.

Very cool. Very cool. We're going to get into that more in just a moment, but Jason, uh, give us your background. Uh, you're the man who wasn't in a school, uh, compared to these, uh, 3 guys. So, uh, tell us your story.

Yes, definitely. Yeah, I'm very much the odd one out. I was never a teacher, if you don't count being a student instructor in undergrad. But yeah, I'm a cognitive scientist and I was working in neurotechnology before coming to Harvard, working for a company that had designed its own brain mapping headset, really interested in studying brains in real-life situations. And yeah, a lot of my passion was for how really scientific understanding of how the mind works, um, can be really enabled by new technologies and exciting technologies.

And so I'm in the technology program. Uh, I was in the technology program here at Harvard, and when AI and all of these new technologies are really creating some interesting conversations, I thought what better time to, to move over and to see what it's actually looking like in exciting, innovative schools.

Very cool. Very cool. Okay. So 4 very different programs, uh, 4 very different backgrounds, uh, coming into this question of like, what can schooling look like in the future. William, let me start with you here. Why don't you like tell us the overview of what you guys actually did? It was like 7 different microschools around the country. What was the work itself? What were you looking for as you went in there? Why did you guys pick these 7 that you did?

Sure. So we sat down early on in the process and really just kind of started big and then whittled down the pool size. And with your network and support from other teachers, we identified these 7 schools around the country that we thought kind of represented the whole spectrum of what microschools are and what they can be. Size, I think, is a common through line of all these microschools, but then we also tried to factor in public versus private versus charter, and we tried to factor in Kind of socioeconomic status of families, and we tried to get the whole range. And so we saw some private institutions, $65,000 a year, down to the in-public school district microschool in rural eastern North Carolina, and really everything in between. So we're really pleased with the 7 schools that we chose because we did not want to pigeonhole ourselves into one type of emerging school model.

And I'm curious, all of you, like, let's list them, right? And sort of maybe start to plot them against these different ways of thinking about it. You got the Village School, microschool in Virginia. You have Elizabeth County Public Schools, I think it is, in North Carolina, more rural if I'm not mistaken. You got NuVu, which is a sort of evolved from an afterschool program into a high school in Cambridge, Massachusetts. You have the Levitt Lab, which is Partnership really with Arizona State University for a new school model. The Khan Lab School, which many people will be familiar with who've listened to my past podcasts out of Khan Academy and sort of maybe the best way to say it is like Khan Academy is one thing. It's sort of a narrow slice of what school is. And Sal has always imagined that schooling is actually a much more comprehensive way of thinking. And so the Khan Lab School is sort of like his manifestation, if you will, of that. Redbridge, which in some ways spun out of Khan Lab School and has some different things that it leans on in San Francisco. And then the one everyone's hearing about these days, Alpha School, which of course many locations now, increasingly not just in the United States, I think they have global ambitions as well, that is spreading pretty rapidly. Help us sort of orient, right, a little bit on the 7 schools. Where would you all put them and Maybe anyone can jump in on this and you guys can sort of pick and put them in different segments as you all might have slightly different perspectives on them as well. I don't know. Open-ended. Who wants to jump in? Yeah.

Yeah. I might just kind of circle back to my original introduction. We chose the spectrum of high tuition, no tuition, but we also thought about kind of 2 factors and made our kind of XY axis and those 2 variables were human skill development in teaching and then also tech-informed student experience. And so when we were choosing these 7 schools, somebody else will jump in after, but we really tried to think about what human skills are they pushing, how hard are they pushing them in comparison to the student experience as informed by their use of technology.

Who wants to dig in?

Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I think just a quick comment. I think it was really interesting. Well, While we did definitely try and get that diversity, I think as well, anyone who's done lots of different school visits knows that you never quite know what you're going to take away from any school. And I think it was really clear, even though we, you know, we're doing research and talking to you and talking to other professors and looking at websites and everything like that, the actual heart of each school within kind of those 2 metrics was quite— I think if we were to like kind of go through the continuum of where we think they were placed before, I think it would be quite different to what our final answers were. And so, yeah, I think like by a little bit of luck, we ended up with this incredibly different set of schools. But yeah, it was super interesting from that perspective that I don't think that that While it was something that we tried to do, I think that there was definitely this element of movement as we went and saw them on the ground.

I want to stay with that. That's like really interesting to me, right? That like you had a certain perception, you had read, you had heard about a lot of these schools. A lot of these schools are buzzy schools, right? They've been on my podcast, they've been on other people's podcasts. In the case of Alpha, they've been on much bigger people's podcasts. Help us, you know, what surprised you maybe across these 7 schools? that led you to say like, oh, I thought it would be here on that continuum, but actually it's like, were they closer together? Were they further apart? Was something more tech-forward than you expected? How about what does that mean?

Yeah, I think I can jump in here a little bit.

I was really looking at these schools through the lens of how they're applying learning sciences and new technologies, specifically things like AI. And I think something that really jumped out at me is that sometimes being tech forward doesn't necessarily mean that you're using and designing really unique forms of AI, but that you have a really keen understanding of how you want students to be using it and where you think its role is in the school.

And I think both of those can count as being very tech forward. It's really clear when schools have thought deeply about these issues and I think especially how they've thought about what it means to learn and how students learn. And I think really going in, especially schools like Alpha, things like the Khan Lab School, it's really clear that they have a strong stance on technology and they're really thinking about the physical tool itself. But then when we went to schools like Redbridge or Village, where the students might not be using technology as much as they are in those other schools, Um, but they have really clear intentions over what they think its role is in the classroom. It was really exciting, really shifted my perspective throughout the semester.

So maybe let's start to dig in there. And Ruben, maybe I'll, I'll, I'll jump with you here and you can pick the one you want to, um, go deep in. I know different ones of you sort of like dug in, if you will, um, more or less on different models, uh, as you designed your full report. But, um, I think like, for example, I think you did Elizabeth City. Um, Reuben, I think that was one of yours, right? So like, that's one model. Where does it sit in this continuum? What does it look like in a public microschool? That seems to be the one that maybe stands out the most in terms of being a district public. It's not a private structure, right? It's not a whole cloth like reinvention in some ways. It sits within something we understand.

Yeah, and it's a really interesting place to start because we showed up there because of their use of AI. Keith Parker, their superintendent, came to Harvard. He spoke in a forum at AskWith about AI, and we showed up and we were just struck by what we took away from it. Yes, it was an in-district microschool, but what really felt innovative about ECPPS was their structures and the way they structure around the community. 25 students, a school bus, they have a rolling field trip permission slip. And so their principal and English teacher has a bus license and can load the kids up at any given moment and take them out into the community. And where we actually first caught up with the school was at the local gym. It's like a, a regular fitness center in the middle of the day where they were having PE class and they were in a class that looked like, you know, your 11:00 AM Pilates class, uh, at your local fitness center. And they were doing real workouts, but— It showed the way in which this community was really taking on these students and the way that this school, because of the limitations of sort of, well, I guess like the 25 students in a public school is extremely expensive, right? And to build a microschool in that. And so to counteract that, they built these partnerships. So rather than hiring a PE teacher, They do this rather than building an art program or building an art studio. They go to the performing arts center down the street and are taught by the people who run that building. And so we were really struck that their use of AI, which was there, and they did math instruction through Khan Academy, was just a small part of the bigger picture.

Let's stay on that for a moment because that's really interesting, right? In some ways, they're basically saying, Look, we're not going to pay for a full-time music teacher, a full-time gym teacher, a full-time— right? But we're going to take advantage of the resources our community has, right? If I'm hearing you correctly, to get actually probably far better instruction. I mean, like, right? These are like crazy professionals, probably in some cases for some of these things. And we're paying for a fraction, right, of their time for a 45-minute block, you know, a couple times a week maybe or something like that, it sounds like. And so that's how they get the economic model. Does AI also help like with logistics in that, or is it really about the instruction for AI in, in, in, in that model?

No, it was really about the instruction. They, they had a portion of their day that was, and we caught it at the end where students are just sitting there with their AI programming, learning math, working with those, working with those programmings and, and sort of getting feedback through their AI system. But it, it wasn't, it didn't expand beyond that. That we saw.

All right. So maybe then let's take that as a departure point and go to Village School or Redbridge or something like that, which I think, Jason, you painted as sort of the opposite end of the AI spectrum from, from some of the— I made an assumption here with what you said, right? That maybe Khan and Alpha, very clear AI instructions, sort of Ruben, how you were just saying, right, in Elizabeth City, that it's sitting there as that instructional core. We understand what it does. Village and Redbridge, it sounds like, are different from that. How, you know, what do their models look like? Where's AI used? And sort of give us a flavor of the day and what you guys observed.

Yeah, I can jump in a little bit, but feel free to add to what I'm saying. But I think Village and Redbridge weren't using AI for instruction to really make it a little bit more clear based on what Ruben was saying. But I think what's really interesting is that Both Village and Redbridge have really thought about what the affordances of something like AI are and where some schools are leaning on personalization of AI as their really big betting point. I think Village and Redbridge are both similarly thinking about the generative use of AI as something that's really exciting. So how can we let students still be very self-directed in the way they're using AI, but instruction and The time in the classroom is still very much a very human interaction. And I think it's really interesting to see how clearly those designers understand AI and how, as a result, I think the students are really keenly aware of what the technology is they're using the same way that somebody who is using a computer or smartphone in a very deliberate way is using it. We're seeing that happen with those students as well.

Matthew, let me bring you in because you also, I think, spent some time with NuVu, which I'm guessing is the third that has like uses AI sort of in that way of, if I'm catching what Jason's saying, in terms of creation, right, of work, as opposed to instruction of work. And I get that can be a false dichotomy, but let's go with it for a moment. Is that correct, number one? And number two, sort of what's your observation off of what Jason just said that, and like, how do you make sure these students really know, you know, when I'm using AI well versus, oh, boy, it's hallucinating on me and doing all sorts of things that are misleading me if I'm a novice, if you will.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I think NuVu was so interesting because I thought there would be more use of AI, but because of their incredibly clear value structure for what they're trying to teach at NuVu, the fact that they're trying to teach these skills of being a designer, it very much was kind of sectioned off as a tool.

Hmm.

For students. And so I think like the through line and particularly Village, Redbridge, New View kind of all had this through line was, uh, it was incredibly clear what learning looked like in every single one of those schools. And not just to the point of it was defined and it was talked about. I think that the students knew what learning looked like. Like every student could describe what it felt like to, within the system of that school, um, go through that productive struggle or what skills beyond the actual curriculum they were trying to build. An example with NuVu is we were talking to a student who had been there for a couple of years, and they were talking about how in the first year they had really learned how to give and receive feedback and how that system was and how it was painful and how it was this skill that they learned throughout the year. And then we got into this amazing conversation of how that learning about that, giving and receiving feedback, uh, led to his development of other skills like writing and how that mentality and, and that, uh, really deliberate curriculum of skills in students, um, allowed him to use the tools within NuView to better their own learning rather than something that might take away. Um, and so it was interesting, like another parallel is Redbridge really had no student-facing AI within the school. As Jason said, they very much were thinking about what was more important and doing trade-offs. But I would say that from those students and the fact that they have this incredible definition and clear structure for what learning looks like by this idea of being in autonomy levels and being an autonomous student, I would say that those students would be better protected in using technology. Because they have such a clear idea of what learning feels like and looks like.

I want to stay on NuVu for one more moment, just because in some ways, in terms of like what the curriculum is there, I think, and you guys can push back, but I think they're probably the furthest out in terms of rethinking what a high school curriculum looks like in terms of all these. Like, it's certainly not subject matter specific. It's much more design focused, as you said. I think you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think like you could go 4 years there and never like, you know, study history, quote unquote, per se. Help us understand that curriculum a little bit more and how they've made those choices.

Yeah, I'd love to jump in. New View was mind-blowing from that traditional charter school teaching background, but so in such a positive way. They In their freshman year, the students work in kind of studio sprints. So 2, 3, 4 weeks where their autonomy level is lower and they are still figuring out what it means to be in school at New View. And then by senior year, they have 8 weeks to work on these studio projects where it's largely independent. There are adults in the space for support when needed, but these students over the course of 4 years are really figuring out what it means to Research a question deeply, use that tool belt that Matt and Jason alluded to with where AI is part of it, but not the entire tool belt. And come to an understanding of a topic or that question or whatever it is at a really deep level. And an anecdote that I think underscores this type of learning or this curriculum, like you said, Michael, we went to The end of studio exhibition. So at the end of the 8 weeks, the students presented their, what they had been doing for the 8 weeks. And like you said, it's not, there's no history PowerPoint where kids are like rifling through flashcards like you would traditionally see in a school. This one student I'll never forget was standing in the front of the room with just a command of the room talking about the environmental factors of waste from car bumpers. And I'll, if you'll allow me, this student figured out early on in the design studio that every year something like 3 million tons of plastic waste gets put into the environment because of fender benders. This kid went through the process of doing the research, Understanding the question and then working with his adults, figuring out a way to create an alternative bumper with a new type of metal that refixes itself under heat, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This child is not going to be— my bet is he's not going to be a bumper, a car bumper expert for his entire life. But it was clear as day that he possesses a style of learning that is so deep and so personal and authentic. And that type of learning is going to benefit him in whatever work he pursues, in whatever classroom he's in for the rest of his life. So that was just something that really struck me from our visit to New View.

That's really interesting. And what seems— you made a comment when we were talking about this in front of all your peers, William, that we are pro-math and literacy, right? Yeah. This is not an either/or because something that's incumbent in all of your answers so far is they are learning knowledge, they are learning these skills, and that destination is bigger. That doesn't sound like, let's be candid, you go into some project-based learning schools and it's a lot of empty calories in these projects. That doesn't sound empty at all. It sounds like a lot of depth if I'm hearing you right. I'd love to hear the contrast or sort of the vision of what you saw then when you went to Levitt Lab School, which I think is a very different model from any of these that are out here today.

Yeah, I can touch on that too. And then Samay, feel free to jump in. Levitt has an amazing vision for what school can and should be. And my lens, this whole project was thinking about how the role of the teacher is evolving. Levitt has a really impressive vision for what the role of a teacher is. The role of a teacher is not to be the deliverer of facts and knowledge. It is to be the guide of self-directed students and encouraging students and motivating students, forming relationships with students so that they can go deep on whatever it is they care about. And that's a really exciting idea. In practice, I think it was, they've run into the challenge, which is It's not one of a surprise, but when you hire former teachers in a traditional classroom and don't undergo a really thorough process of helping them unlearn their teaching habits and unlearn their teaching kind of positionality, you run into issues and miscommunications. And so what does it mean to be self-directed in a school? Is there accountability? Is there discipline? What kind of expectations do we have for students if they decide the work that they are kind of putting forth? And so that was a really interesting model to see because it was clear that they were in the process of growing. And so I have full faith that they will pull it off. It just, they're, I mean, as with any new school model, there's a lot of unlearning and growing to be done.

I'm curious, and it's interesting to hear you say that because I think I've been to a lot of quote unquote innovative schools over the years where the really good ones have a very— I'm going to use the word good leader, but I'm going to use the word good leader because they understand the why behind the model that they've created. And they really spend a lot of time making sure that the whole team, faculty, staff, et cetera, like everyone understands What the vision is, why they're there, what that means for workflows. Like, they don't take any of that to chance. And when things don't work in some of these models, it seems like there's a broken link, maybe at multiple junctures of what I just laid out there, but like at least, at least one or two of them, it seems to me. I'm curious because like this, this jumps to Alpha School, I think, which is they go so far as like they don't want former teachers being quote unquote their guides. Fancy word for teacher with a different name, but in a different role. But like, that's a very different sort of vision of that. I can't remember which 2 of you wrote up Alpha School, but if someone jumps in there maybe and sort of paints that contrast with what you just described with Levitt Lab.

Yeah, I can jump in as one of the writers, but Matt as well. I think something with the Alpha School that doesn't always get talked enough about is how deliberate the other parts of the day are. I think a lot of people talk about the 2 hours a day and how students are learning academic content very quickly, performing really well on exams. But as an institution, I think they've really done a good job of defining what their principles and purpose are for the life skills that they want students to develop. One of the mantras that we would hear walking around the campus is that they're building creators and not consumers. And I think that was really embodied by the specific skills that they had chosen. Things like entrepreneurship, things like public speaking and leadership. And I think it goes to show what they really hope teachers are doing in those environments. And a lot of that is modeling, and a lot of that is trying to figure out how students are progressing along those different life skills because they understand why each of the 5 different life skills that the school has chosen are their guiding principles. And I think something that goes with school choice as well, is that families can also decide which life skills speak the most to them. And I know Alpha gets some controversy over the model, over the skills that they've chosen, but the fact that it's so clear what skills they have chosen, I think is also a representation of strong leadership.

That's really interesting to me. It's something that's jumping out. Let's not do every single model. I think we're going to leave one or two on the cutting room floor, if you will, for a moment. But Reuben, maybe let me go to you on this question, which is like, When I'm hearing these, NuVu to Alpha to, you know, Leavitt, like these are very different visions. Redbridge, right? Like Elizabeth City Village School. These are like very different visions for what schooling looks like. One of the things that jumps out to me is like, and I'm curious if you'd agree, but, you know, someone who's attracted to NuVu, that's not every kid. And that's probably the point in some ways. And Jason, what you just said, you know, in terms of alpha, like if we're creating entrepreneurs, that probably also doesn't speak to every single person. And that's probably also the point, right? Just sort of curious your reflections on that, Reuben, coming from, you know, being an assistant principal at a charter school, right? Like you've seen a lot of different schools and school models themselves trying to be innovative. Is that characterization right about like, hey, it's okay that these are not for everyone and What did anything surprise you around that?

Yeah, I think I totally agree. I think, um, in, in the schools that I worked at, we often, I think our, our big fault was always concerned with, this is, it's hard to put this in a way, but I think we were always concerned. We, we always raised the floor. We, kids were not falling through the cracks. Kids were doing well. But in the same time as doing that, we often constricted the ceiling of where kids could go. And I think these schools really bust through that glass ceiling and say, like, if, if this is the right fit for you, uh, if you've found the right place, then the sky's the limit. Um, because you'll have the autonomy, the support, uh, the resources, uh, that really feed into you as a learner that allows you to, to accomplish amazing things before you leave 8th grade in some of these cases. Um, and so that to me was a super inspiring piece of all this and visiting these schools was for students that found the right school, for families that found the right school, it really created incredible opportunities. Um, and, and that they were so different and that it really was like there was an option for, for every family to do something really incredible with their learning.

Jason, let me ask you this question, 'cause I like, that's pretty powerful what you just described, Reuben, and it seems like the, challenge then, or the opportunity maybe, if we're moving to this, you know, more of a system of like lifting the ceiling for every kid, is to make sure that the floor also comes up still for every kid as well. And part of that is helping them make choices that are synergistic, right, with what really makes them tick. Is that right? Is that your observation? Like, it becomes like more of a choice and system question than the responsibility of each school to be the right fit for every kid, or how should we think about that?

Yeah, I mean, I'll start by saying this is definitely my opinion and I'm curious to see how it works.

Yeah, why doesn't everyone jump in after you on this? Okay, let's let everyone have a shot on this.

Yeah, I think that a lot of what's happened in school that has led to some of the discontent that a lot of families are feeling is this overemphasis on standardization of the model of school, of what students have to learn in the classroom. And as a result, I think more options is like a natural reaction to that discontent. I do also think that some of these schools, as much as we may love them, might not actually be the fit for some families. I'm sure that there are families that have come to these schools that have had the most amazing outcomes and some who have had to continue to find the school that was the right fit for their kids. But I think that what's important is that the process of finding a school and the process of choosing the school right for your child is one where there's as little friction as possible. So I think from like a systematic standpoint, like that might in my mind be like one of the important places to start to resolve the barriers that families are facing because I think there's a lot of knowledge in communities over like how learning can occur, what learning can look like, and if we can continue to incentivize that entrepreneurship of these different school models, I'm sure there's going to be some that continue to rise to the surface as like the most prime examples, even beyond just the 7 we've seen.

All right, everyone get in there. Feature, bug, concerns, worries, excitement. Yeah, go ahead, Matthew.

I've got a, okay, so I think my perspective from this human development side is that The couple of character skills or human skills that a school builds should be the most important part of this whole continuum. And I want to be clear with like what that means. I think it's a deeper level of purpose of schooling than say the Alpha School's life skills. I see like subjects and jobs, life skills or Kind of that different level. And then you have this, what characteristics are we building? And that's why I think Redbridge as a school cuts through is because they have one characteristic, which is being an autonomous learner. And like, that is a human skill that they're building. So I think that that is like, for me, what should be the most important point to connect the students and the parents of a community to a school because it then informs every other level. And so yeah, I think if you don't build up from there and then you don't align people at that deepest level, well, it's not, that's where you do get friction.

Reuben and William, I want to hear you both get in on this also. And I just want to add off of what Matthew just said, like, In some ways, I think, Matthew, you're suggesting like that's the new thing that's in common. And this is something I've thought a lot about is like, in many ways, like prom or Friday Night Lights in America, right? Different from Australia perhaps, because football's a little hardcore where you are, right? Like those have been what we've taken in common and you're speaking a different language of commonality in some ways. So I'd love your guys' reflections though.

Yeah, I think, yeah, what Matt said really resonates with me about, about focusing on, on human skills and, and focusing on the learner. I think like these schools, and when I think about Village School and Redbridge in particular, their focus on the learner in front of them, who that learner is, and that learner understanding who they are as a person and as, as a growing being and, and someone who's Who's gonna spend this time in school understanding like, where have I been? Um, what skills am I developing? And, and then where are my gaps? Where do I go from here? But they really, they, they do an incredible job, both those schools, of pairing that with a strong foundation of reading and math and those foundational skills that we associate with school traditionally. And so they're able to do both of those things. They're, they're raising the floor. And opening up that ceiling for students to explore in depth those interests. And so they have portions of their day that might look and feel a bit— well, they look and feel like really solid ELA class. And then there's a portion of their day designed and designated for students to explore their interests and to explore their learning in a deep way that's self-driven. And then there are those skills. that are required to do those things, to, to be a self-driven learner, are developed as a part of that. It's not, it's not a separate skill. It's not decoupled from their instructional classes. It's a part of the whole coherent structure of the school that really thrusts kids upwards.

Fair to say that like the knowledge building you just described in mathematics or ELA, it's viewed as like foundational to that larger question and then that intent or, or Or purpose of what we're building, that autonomy and self-understanding, that's the consistent thing that appears in every single learning activity. Is that the right way to think about it?

Absolutely. Yeah.

Cool. All right, William, your turn to worry or get excited.

No, I'll do a little bit of both. I think about even some of my family members, like Say you've, your family's been going to a school for generations and, but for this one kid, it's not the right fit. And no matter how hard you try to put the square peg in the round hole, like these are formative years of a student's life where if they're not in the right fit, it's doing more harm to the student's development than if they made it out the other side and figured it out by senior year of high school. That is, what's the point of that? And I just, on these school tours, I was really just so inspired by knowing that different is okay and different models are more and more becoming less stigmatized. And I just think back to even when I was in school, a different model most likely would've been the right fit for me. And yet, It's a big jump for parents to make, to leave what's familiar for something that's unfamiliar. So I think that'll be a really interesting kind of trend to keep an eye on in the next couple of years, what parents make of leaving the comfortable traditional model. And then the thing I think I'm worried about is where higher education kind of fits into this equation. They kind of seem to— higher ed kind of seems to be in between causing friction from K through 12 to the job market, where if we've got these really inspiring, innovative K through 12 models, but they have to adapt their transcripts or adapt their curricula to appease a higher education institution, and then the student has to then apply to the job market, it'll be, that's one of my worries. I don't want some, a place like the Village School where it's all about knowing yourself to have to change anything about their model to satisfy the needs of higher education. Because I know that when those students from the Village School do make it to the job market, that ability to know yourself is going to do them wonders. So higher education's the big Biggest question mark I have.

It's friction. Yeah. And it's interesting, right? Like if I'm a college, I sure would want somebody who actually knew themselves and could learn autonomously. Like that would be a way more valuable student than the traditional sort of play the game student, if you will, for lack of a better phrase. So, all right, last question for you all as we wrap up here. And you guys, it's a sort of lightning round question, but you can take it where you want. Which is, you know, thing that's most surprising to you or the thing that you're going to take from this as you've now graduated and go out into, back into the working world, back into the working world of education, something you're going to do with this and take with it in your own careers. And maybe we'll go the same order through. So Jason, then Matthew, Ruben, William, final word. All right, go for it, Jason.

I think My biggest takeaway from this is that nobody has the answers, but I think the answers lie in trying, uh, in trying something different. And I think that the more that people really think deeply about what led to the success in their own life, uh, and really try to understand how, how things like research and technology can support that is when we can kind of break away from nostalgia that might be Kind of halting other innovations?

That's a great question. So I think one big reflection is, and the others are going to laugh because I pull out this quote all the time, is one of my professors uses the, what counts cannot always be counted, and what can be counted does not always count, quote a lot to push us to ask people what Matters. And I think a practice or a thing that I'm going to continually follow through from this project and just based off what we saw and what I can't unsee is asking people what matters to them and then trying to use that to establish this common ground. Because I think in schools where I don't think, and to my point earlier about the human skills, I don't think we're getting to the ground level foundational beliefs. enough and then building up from that. And so, yeah, I think a practice going forward is I'm going to ask, what do you think the purpose of this is? What do you think the purpose of all of it is? And let's figure out what's common and build things from there.

Yeah, for me, it's part of the reason why I wanted to do this project with these guys in the first place was to get out there and see it. And I think that's my biggest takeaway is that The, these schools, the, the leaders, the, the guides and teachers that were most inspiring, inspiring were those who had gotten out into other schools, who had, who had both like seen things happening and, and then came back and, and made it their own. And I think I am not gonna be the same teacher, the same leader, uh, after going to see these schools and what they've accomplished and, and what they're aiming to do. And I think It, you'd be hard pressed as a teacher, as a school leader to, to go back and, and not be changed by some of the inspiring things that are happening around the country.

I think I would echo what Jason said about just trying will get us to a better understanding of what the purpose of school is. I think shout out to, shout out to our friend Ashna, who is starting her own school. But the process of building a school right now is very feasible if you work out the financials. Obviously that's a huge hill to climb, but like people can just build schools now, say, this is the thing I care about most. This is what I want my students to be and who I want them to become, or just a general kind of set of principles and just do it. And I think that The more leaders that we see kind of getting to that point, like we just had a cohort of 750 students at Harvard graduate and the vast majority of them are going back into existing institutions. But imagine if a fraction of that class size went off and built what an exciting landscape we're walking into. So I'm really motivated and hopeful that more children will have more schools that work for them.

Amazing, guys. And just for those listening, it's Ashna Mago who's starting Purpose Schools right in the Bay Area. But just, you know, folks that want to follow the work, look at the report you produced, they can follow Tomorrow Schools on LinkedIn. Is that the best? Is that the best way? I'm getting head nods, but, and a thumbs up from Matthew. So Cool. All right, so check that resource out. We'll link to it. All 4 of you, congratulations on graduating. Congrats on asking the hard questions, right? It's a lot easier just to stay on the path, I think, of what's been, but congrats on sort of asking where the exceptions, those anomalies are, where that can give us a window into how we might rethink what's been and create a lot more opportunities. And Ruben, I'm going to keep that quote of, we're blowing off the ceiling so that people can just reach their potential. That's a cool way of thinking about what we're trying to build here, I think. So, huge thank you to all of you. And for all of you tuning in, we'll be back next time on the future of education, as always. And let's keep building, folks. Thanks so much.

Thank you so much.

Thanks, Michael.