Dr. Amara Pope | Navigating Identity and Influence in Media - Mick Unplugged [EP 23]

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Mick.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of MC Unplugged where we channel.

The power of because to look beyond our why and fuel our passions. And today I'm excited because we're diving into the incredible journey and insights of.

A distinguished scholar and influential voice in media studies. She's made a huge impact on understanding.

The intersection of media culture and identity. Get ready to be inspired by the remarkable, the phenomenal Dr. Amara Pope. Dr. Amar, how are you doing today?

I'm well, thank you. What an introduction.

Hey, it's all you.

It is totally all you.

I'm doing well.

Awesome. I'm excited about this conversation because you're multi talented, multifaceted and you have an incredible journey. So can you share with the listeners and the viewers, like, that pivotal moment or experience in your life that kind of shaped your because or that that energy that fueled you to the success that you have today?

I would say that a huge fueler of my success would be watching my parents have an immigrant struggle in Canada. So I've seen them work really hard firsthand. Watched my dad, he worked in marketing, so that was very inspiring to me as well because I ended up going down the marketing track unintentionally throughout my career, but I got that drive and that passion from them. And so when I began my career, I was working at the age of 14, just kind of part time. And then I continued to work part time and full time while completing my studies. So I got my undergraduate degree in a double degree in fine arts and English with a professional designation in Digital Media studies. And then I got a master's degree in Communication studies and a PhD in media studies. So I've been in school for a very long time, but meanwhile I was working many other jobs to try, try to pay for my education. So that was a really great way for me to get hands on experience in different fields while also getting that drive and that work ethic to continue into my adulthood.

That's amazing. So, so what were some of those other jobs that you're talking about that kind of helped shaped who you are?

Well, they ranged because I essentially was just looking for ways to pay for school. And so I didn't think what I was doing outside of school would lead into what I ended up studying. Studying. So I started at the head office of Home Hardware. I was doing digital imaging and sales and those positions in marketing ended up fueling my interest in digital media and marketing later on. But some of the jobs included being a server, working as a grocery store clerk. I worked in a ramen shop for two days. So it was basically anything I could get my hands on to get some experience and the cash money.

I love it so much. So what inspired you then? Because a lot of your research, right. Media, culture, identity, talk a little bit about what inspired you there and like what are you doing now in those worlds?

Well, in terms of identity, I moved from Scarborough, Ontario, where I was born, where there's a lot of diversity. My parents are from Trinidad, so I had a lot of Caribbean influences growing up in Toronto. And they moved us from there to Elmira, which is a very small town in Ontario. Horse and buggies, Mennonites, farmland. We were the Brown family in a corner house. So that's how we were known in this small town. So when I moved from Scarborough to Elmira, I noticed my difference very early on in my, in just in life because people, my classmates would ask me questions like, were you born like that or did you tan a lot? And back then we didn't have TikTok, we didn't have Instagram, we didn't have all these social media platforms to help us gain exposure to things outside of our immediate surroundings. So when I was young, I didn't realize how that would go on and influence my passion, my drive to look at different forms of identity and intersectionality and how that affects my work. As I went through education as well as different forms of employment, I noticed my gender was also a factor in many different rooms in many different circumstances. So that also informed my interest in intersectionality. So race, gender, and I would say media studies because I've always been interested in different forms of communication. I really like music. I can't Sing, I can't dance. I mean, I have some journey blood in me, so I can move a little bit, but not professionally. And so music was always filled in my house, and I wanted to explore my identity through music. And that became a way for me to explore Canadian ness and Canadian identities in a multifaceted realm through music and cultural studies. That's kind of where it all.

That's awesome. So.

So let's take a little dive into.

Music, because one of your passions is kind of the recognition of Canadian R and B, Right? And so you've done a lot of work, a lot of research into that. Talk to us a little bit about that.

Yes. So I am a 90s kid, so I grew up through that rise of Canadian R and B finally gaining recognition. And it being so deeply rooted in the streets of Toronto and even in Vancouver and Quebec, we saw R and B and blues so embedded in our identity. But when I went to do that research on the history of Canadian R and B, I realized that lacked a lot of exposure in the academic world, but also in the media world because it was predominantly white Canadians gaining recognition. And R and B, traditionally associated with black identities and black culture, was pushed to the periphery of academic studies as well as magazines, television, et cetera. So I looked at how that history lacked visibility in Canada. And then I looked at how artists like Drake, Justin Bieber, Jesse Reyes, racially diverse Canadian identities representing very different lifestyles in Canada, finally got to the realm of popular culture through the use of the Internet as well as building on the backs of many generations before them. So I was interested in uncovering that history and then also looking at the marketing and branding strategies of contemporary artists.

Wow.

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That's deep. That's deep. So in your opinion, how does media shape culture identity and what role do scholars like yourself play in this process?

Well, when I was beginning to conduct this study, I was actually interested in what contemporary artists were doing because I found that Drake, Justin Bieber, Jesse Reyes represented very different aspects of Canadianness. And I chose these three artists specifically because they resonated with me. Drake represented this multicultural Canadian identity that I celebrated in Toronto and Scarborough, whereas Bieber represented that small town Almira vibes that I felt growing up in small town Ontario. And then Jesse Reyes represented that second generation Canadian struggle. So I found it was really unique that all three artists were representing different aspects of Canadianness in popular culture through their music, through their branding, through their brand partnerships, and all in different realms. And so that was what initially attracted me to that space. But when I conducted that study, I realized all this history that was missing and all the artists that came before them that were doing a lot of the same stuff, stuff, but minus the Internet, minus some of the support that, you know, we built over the years. So I think that in conducting the study, I was a great conduit to have some of these conversations that needed to be had on reflecting the racism that happened in Canada and continues to happen today, as well as just giving recognition to diversity in Canada through these three artists.

That's awesome. And very well appreciated. Just so you know as well, too well.

I'm happy to be part of that story. Yeah, it was exciting for me to conduct that research on what's happening now. But there are so many artists before them and unfortunately some of them had passed away before I could even reach out. But it's amazing to see the struggle that so many of them face and they're now getting recognition in popular Culture, you know, Maestro Fresh west, for example, Cardinal official. It took them so many years and decades to finally get some golden stamps in Canada, Canadian culture, and even in the States. So it's great, great to see some of them getting their flowers today.

That's awesome. So I know that for you everything hasn't been easy. Like, no matter how successful we become in life, there's always challenges that we overcome. And I personally think that overcoming challenges is what fuels us forward those successes. Right. So what were some of the biggest challenges that you faced on your journey thus far?

One comes to mind that's very prominent. When I began my PhD, I was very young because I skipped a grade in elementary school, and then I went straight through my undergrad to a one and a half year master's, right. To a PhD. So I was. Yeah, it was, it was insane. So I was very, very young. I just, I just graduated last year at the age of 29. So. And that PhD took me seven years. So doing the math, nine, strike seven is 22. I was very young. So I remember entering one of my core courses and my professor spoke to the class and said, you know, you need to be age appropriate to be here. You need to have a certain amount of experience and knowledge, but life experience. And he was talking down to me in a very indirect but direct way, to the point where at the end of class, a lot of the other students came up to me and said, are you okay? You know, that seems like almost an interrogation for why you're here. And I didn't take it to heart at the moment. But as the course progressed, I saw these little microaggressions happening towards me and I realized I was singled out for my age. And I think that was the first time I experienced ageism. But I can account for many times where I've experienced racism. Growing up in a small town, some of them might not have been so poignant to be a direct target towards me and, you know, to be something aggressive. But having to continually explain my culture, my skin color, why I talked to. I had certain foods coming to my lunches with me in my backpack every day. There was little things where I had to continually explain myself. And that was a barrier that I had to overcome as well, just as a. At a very young age. So I think from many different aspects of my, even my gender too, as I said, I've worked in a lot of different boardrooms where I was the only minority female in the room, which definitely points me out in a certain light that I had Felt like I had to continually prove myself. I actually, I did a TEDx talk, and now when I look back on it, I cringe. Not only because I feel like I can speak better, but I spent so much of the time trying to prove why I was worth listening to. And I myself would recognize that because I knew the thoughts that were going through my mind while I was on stage. But it's this imposter syndrome that all these different experiences I had made me feel like I needed to prove why I needed to be in stage certain rooms or in front of certain people.

I love that, and I'd love for you to talk to the listeners and those that are watching because there are people that are just like Dr. Amara, that are just like me. Right. Every door to every room just doesn't naturally open. And for some people, they feel like they can never turn the handle or the knob to get into that door. What's some advice that you want to give folks that maybe felt like you a few years, or I say a few years ago because you're only 29. Right. But. But folks that maybe are experiencing that as well.

Right?

Like, what's some advice you'd give to people not to. To give up on opening those doors?

I think the biggest takeaway I've had over the last three decades is you never know what an opportunity might turn into. So it might seem like something completely unrelated to what you want to do in the future. But you can gain tangible skills, you can gain relationships and just experiences to reflect on and make you ponder on where you're going moving forward. So I think that the best way to approach life is just seize every opportunity in front of you. Tonight, for example, my small town finally has a paint night open in the park. And I'm going to go with a girlfriend and join. And I have no idea who's going to be there. I don't know what we're going to be doing, but it's just an experience to try something new, to get out of your comfort zone and meet new people. So I think that that just sees everything that you can. That's in front of you or not.

No, totally love it. So how do you hope that the work that you've done in media studies will impact future generations?

Well, one thing I think is the most salient part of my research project for my PhD is to look at that history of Canadian R and B and understand where we're coming from and where we're going with the contemporary artists. And again, that's representing more Diversity that's reflecting on Canada's racist history and also looking at the way that Canada and the U.S. kind of merged and diverged from one another, because that history is deeply embedded in American history. So I think that it's important to have that recognition, but see what's unique about Canadian music and Canadian identities and taking it a step forward for future generations. I'm currently working on some children's books on media literacy because I think that media literacy is very important, especially. Especially as new generations grow up with more technology surrounding them. So really, understanding the power that media has at a young age is something I'm a huge advocate for.

Love it. And I know you and you're deeply engaged in academic. Right. But you also have a family, and I know from the Caribbean background.

Right.

Like, family's the center of everything.

Yeah.

Right. So how do you balance professional commitments with your family life?

I prioritize family. Over the years, I've prioritized work and I've prioritized school, and I've ensured that I got to a point now in my life where I've completed my education and I have a good, stable, flexible job where I'm able to carve out more time for family. And I think that was always the goal of mine, knowing that I had to focus at a certain period of my life to have school and work as a priority and now being able to relish in those benefits of now prioritizing and having more family time again. So I think that is the best way to do it. Sometimes your priorities change just depending on where you want to go with your life. So I knew that I had to make those sacrifices previously, but now I'm super excited for the next decade to just enjoy more time with my parents and my little brother. Yeah.

So it's 2024. Right. And we've seen technology and machine learning and AI take significant advancements in the last couple of years. So for you and your role in media studies, how do you see technology evolving in your study and understanding media and culture?

I think the biggest way that it's just moving forward is just seeing how embedded is everyday language and everyday communications from a young age. Because I grew up where we saw the introduction of Instagram, of Facebook, moving from MSN chats to instant messaging online to, you know, now we can have imessaging on our phones. And I think that seeing the younger generations grow with it becomes something where we have to not be in avoidance of technology, but learn how to live with it and live with it. Responsibly So I think that's the biggest thing in terms of academic studies that we need to take on. And we tend to see a lot of the older generation being more hesitant towards embracing technology. But it's moving, it's happening. It's. It's happening at a rapid pace more and more as the new generations come in. So I think that learning how to act and live with it responsibly is the best way we can go.

That's great. You're a very studious person. Right. And you're one of the most. And I mean this sincerely when I say this, you're one of the most brilliant people that I know. And that's a huge compliment.

Thank you.

What advice would you give to young.

Scholars and students who aspire to make an impact in their studies or in their field? Because I think now more and more as students are choosing majors and choosing paths that they want to take, it's driven more about the impact that they can make versus what they could actually learn. So what advice do you have for those young scholars and students?

Well, I'd remind them that when I began high school, I thought I was going to be an architect, and then I would. And then I took physics class and I realized that was a whole different direction I needed to go into. Did not like physics. And so when I did my undergrad degree, I was really interested in art in communication and writing. But again, maybe I thought I'd become an English professor. So then I went on to do my master's and found a love for studying media, specifically music videos and how I could take. Take that interest in fine arts and English and lyrics and rhythm and turn that into a study on how different artists were representing identity through audio visual media. Then went to my PhD. So what I want would remind them is you never know where things go, but allow yourself to follow your passion.

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Even if you don't know what the outcome is going to be, if that's driving your interest, you could turn a career into that as long as you go as far as you can with your education or your work experience. Experience. And I would also encourage people to continually, if they're able to manage some kind of part time job or some kind of hobby that they're doing, joining a club or something outside of school. Because education is great, classrooms are an amazing environment to be in. But when you also meet people on, in the workforce, I think that's a different kind of parameter where you can gain exposure and get experience. So I would say follow your dream, follow your interests, and also balance between work and school.

School, awesome. So what about those life students, right? So maybe those that aren't in academia but are in a career, what advice would you have for them? Like I'm gonna say piece for me is to continue to learn and to continue to evolve.

Right.

What advice do you have for folks that are in a career that maybe.

They'Re not getting the most out of.

The career that they're in?

Okay, so again, it's the same balance. So if you're more careful, career dominated, find ways to learn new things. So again, joining a hobby or a class or trying to find, you know, once a week or twice a month, an online webinar or something where you could stimulate your mind and just jump into different fields because you might be in a career and you might be unhappy, but find where you're finding happiness. And sometimes, you know, you have to pay the bills and you have to do a career that you're not super excited about, but find your joy doing other things. And you know, I have to be realistic too. You can't, I can't just say follow your passions and just go with the wind because we all have responsibilities. So if you can insert the things that you're passionate about and that you're, you know, you're, you're driving towards, maybe you can make that shift one day from the career that's paying the bills to that passionate project you're super excited about and you have enough experience and knowledge in that space, awesome stuff.

So speaking of projects for Dr. Amara, what upcoming projects or goals are you most excited about?

Oh, the timeliness of our chat is great because I am about to, in a couple weeks, launch Paintings and sculptures and the artistic side of me that I've kind of kept quiet for the last decade while I was focusing on my research.

Is this an exclusive right now? Are we getting exclusive?

It is.

It is. I haven't actually shared this yet, so I'm very, very excited. I'll be launching that on my website. It'll be the same website, but slash art. So DramaPope, ca art. And I'll be sharing that creative side that I've been working on for. Yeah. In the in the Shadows for the decade now. And I'll be launching my children's book. So that's really, really my two passion projects right now. The artsy side of me and then my love for education and children.

That's awesome. So we'll get you out of here. Two questions. Number one, what's the last book that you read that really was impactful for you? You.

The last book I read, Authentic tm, was something I read. I actually. Well, I read it for my dissertation, but I went back and reread it because I think the idea of authenticity, there's a lot of different meanings behind the word authenticity, especially in our day and age with social media. And I think that that was a great way to just interrogate how people perform identities in different spaces. So that was my book.

Love it. Have you met Marcus Ogden yet?

No.

I'm about to introduce you to Marcus Ogden. So he has a great podcast called Get Authentic with Marcus Ogden. And he always asks people, what's your definition of authenticity? Some great insights there. So shout out shameless plug to my buddy Marcus Ogden. How about that?

Awesome.

And then question number two.

Where can people find you, follow you, and all the great things about Dr. Amara Pope?

Well, you can follow me pretty much all social media platforms at Dr. Amara Pope. So it's at D R A M A R A P O P E. And that's Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, pretty much all across the board, Dr. Marco. Or you could check me out on my website. It's www.d r a m a r a p o p e.ca or dot com. So it's Dr. Mar popope.ca.com yeah.

So I. I invite everyone that's listening or watching. Definitely give Dr. Pope a follow. Her website has links, the TED talk that she says she would redo. But I thought it was amazing. So you're too critical on yourself. I thought your TED talks were amazing. Also links to articles that she's written in or have been written about her, which you will find very phenomenal and a lot about her passions, especially on Canadian R and B, are on our website. So, Dr. Pope, it was an honor to have you on.

Anytime you want to come back on.

You don't have to ask, you just come on and we always will have room for you.

Thank you so much. And it was great to chat with you. Thank you for the wonderful questions.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And for all the listeners and watchers, remember your because is your superpower. Go unleash it.

Thanks for listening to Mick Unplugged. We hope this episode helps you take the next step toward the extraordinary and launches a revolution in your life. Don't forget to rate and review the podcast and be sure to check us out on YouTube at MC Unplugged. Remember, stay empowered, stay inspired, and stay Unplugged.