George Mumford Discusses Pure Performance, The Zone, and Lessons from Champions

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So it was like not just performing, but I'm talking about pure performance, not elite. Performance is one thing, but pure performance is when you're doing the thing for the activity in and of itself for no reason other than being in the moment and expressing yourself honestly and love and being who you are because you're unique. There's no one like you.

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of MC Unplugged. And today we're talking to a gentleman who didn't know but two years ago literally changed my life and my approach to leadership and the mental preparedness. He's the mindfulness coach behind the legends like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. He's a master of unlocking peak potential and the author transforming the way we think about focus and flow. Please join me in welcoming the wise, the transformative, the legendary, the guy called the goat. Mr. George Mumford. Mr. Mumford, how you doing today, sir?

Thanks. Thanks, Mick. I appreciate you. It's my honor to be here and it's. I can't tell you how delighted I am to hear that the book have value for you. And more importantly, that the book is helping you unlock. You unlock. We need you to be unlocked. We need everybody to be unlocked.

Unlocked has changed my life. It's literally a book that I reference at least three to four Times a week, I pull out quotes on a weekly basis, I talk to my team internally. And we have once a month. George, I got to give you credit. We have unlocked sessions where we talk through things as a group and as a team because as you know, what one person is struggling with, they're going through is probably something else that someone else is going through. They were just afraid to talk about it out loud. And so we really have unlocked sessions and we have a lot of mental clarity on a monthly basis. And to that, I owe you, brother.

I like that.

So before we go into unlocked, George, one of the things on the podcast that we really talk about is your because. Right, that thing that's deeper than your why. I like to call it like your true purpose, your true reasoning. And for a lot of people, that changes over time. And it should change over time. If I were to say today, 2025, George Mumford, what's your because today?

To unlock the divine spark in each and every human being. So I'll give you the whole spiel. As a child, I developed several years back and I forget when I did it, but it's a lifelong thing to unlock the divine spark in each and every human being. The values that are at the heart of who I am. I love curiosity, truth, wisdom, integrity, selfless service, compassion, courage. That for which I can be counted on for is to be loving with a warrior spirit, with a serving and compassionate heart, pursuing excellence and wisdom with grace and ease. That's. That's what I'm up to and that's that those are my guiding ideas, my guiding principles, man.

And early on, I know. So when I say early on, I'm going to say college years. You went to the University of Massachusetts. A lot of people may not know, man. You were the, the roommate of a man that we call Dr. J. Julius Irving.

Yes.

Talk to us about those days with you, man. Like.

Yeah, no, it was, it was, you know, I talk about it in my other book, the Mindful Athlete Secret to Pure Performance. So just give you an idea. So fast forward. This is, this is 1969 and, and I'm going to University of Massachusetts at Amore. And it was the last orientation weekend. So the weekend just before classes started. So it was, so it was that Labor Day weekend. So it started, I think, Thursday, Wednesday, Thursday, whatever it was. And so I stayed on campus and didn't have to. And so we, we were playing. Me and a couple of my friends were playing pick up basketball. So we went to this outdoor court and this dude was out There playing. And he had on street shoes and he was dunking on people. And I was saying, well, who's this homie here? I mean, who. Wait. But I knew about him. Once he told me it was because my friend of mine said, hey, man, this is guy Julius Irving. You gotta check him out. He's. He's the real deal. And so. And that. And that's. That's how we became friends. And. And then eventually, you know, we were roommates, and I was his roommate, you know, while he was. When he was just about to go pro.

Yeah.

So, yeah, so I had that experience. And then my other roommate, Al Skinner.

Yeah.

Actually played. Played with Julius in. In. In New York nets and with 76ers. So he was my other roommate. And of course, Patino. Rick Patino was there when I was there, so I knew all those. We all hung together. Patina was from Oyster Bay. So sometimes we used to ride home, you know, with him, me, him, and Al. You know, sometimes we. You know, if I was going to hang out with Al on weekends, sometimes we drop Rick off on the way to Long Island.

You know, we're gonna have to have a separate story, because I know you got some stories. All of it we probably can't tell on this podcast, but, wow, to be a fly on the wall with George Mumford. And some of those conversations have to be legendary.

Yeah. So just to show that. That you're not the only one that feels that way. I don't know when it was several years back, the last time they had the. The NBA All Star Game in LA and Julius had a podcast. And so he went. He interviewed me for the podcast. So I. I actually was there right in the middle of it all. And as I'm going in, Isaiah Thomas is saying, wait a minute, you two going in there? I want to come in. You know, Julia said, well, I'll get with you later, but we just got to do this thing because Isaiah was saying, oh, man, I want to hear what these roomies are going to talk about.

Right, right. Yeah, we're going to set up a separate one for that one. That's going to be amazing.

Anyway, just to say you're not alone, because people. And, you know, it's funny, if I wasn't in the conversation, I'd be interested.

Exactly, exactly. That's wild, man. So, you know, obviously you've worked with legendary. I'm going to say, the best of the best in Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.

How.

I mean, I know the story, but I want the audience to Know, how did it come about working with Michael Jordan?

Yes. So people probably know my, my story about, you know, getting into recovery, getting injured and in college and, you know, not, not, not playing, not fulfilling my dream of playing in the NBA or even playing in college. So, you know, I got, so I, I got addicted to pain meds then, then alcohol and drugs and all that. So fast forward. So I got clean in 1984. Fast forwarding. I was a functional substance abuser. So I always worked and everything. So I was fortunate enough to be able to continue to work and, and to do, do things. But when I got clean and then I started realizing that about me and how I had to go inside and unlock myself. But it was that gift of desperation that allowed me to look at it and start to see, okay, getting connected to my power source, high power, whatever you want to call it, and, and just figuring out, you know, how to unlock myself. And so that's it. And it started that way and I was still working, but then I went back to graduate school. But then I got on this mission, which I think the competitive edge is learning.

Yeah.

And achieving. And when you learn and you achieve, you actually generate this energizing enthusiasm. But what am I learning about? It's not so much about subjects. It's about me, my mind, body system, and how I, who I am, my body, my heart and soul, and how I can relate to others being in the network of relationships. So that's how it got me there. And when I got into recovery, part of my recovery was if you want to keep it, you got to give it away. And if you want to learn it, you got to teach it. And so, so it's when I, it got me into it, so I, I so just going through it and then I ended up working at the center for Mindfulness, which used to be the stress reduction relaxation program at UMass Medical center and where I worked there for five years. I was, you know, I had a prison project, director of Prison Project. And then we set up an inner city clinic. Yeah. On the other sides of the other side of railroad tracks. So some folks that live in the, in the hood, you know, that live on the other side of railroad tracks, we, we had a satellite clinic for them to learn how mindfulness based stress reduction. So in the interim, the founder, John Kabat Zinn, my boss, he was, he used to go to Omega Institute, this, this place in New York. And at the same time, Phil was running this program called Beyond Basketball, where it really was, it was a fundraising activity for his teammate, a teammate he had with the next. His name was Eddie Maas.

Yeah.

And so he was doing this. So they had, it was like a fantasy basketball weekend for people when they come and play and everything. And so they were there together and fill in and, and actually John and Phil's wife June at the time were talking about, you know, the team and, and this process that she was learning because she was a, she was a social worker, so she was, she was doing the training and, and they knew Phil because they were always there and, and whatnot. And so Phil was told John that he needed somebody to come in and help the guys deal with the stress of success. So this was 1993. This is after they won their first three three peat. And so Phil, because Phil is like me, he believes in the whole person. It's not like, shut up and dribble. I'm interested in your body, your mind, your heart and your spirit. And, and you're like one of my, you know, you're, you're, you're my peeps. You're one of my congregation, if you will, that, you know, I'm concerned about your, your well being beyond basketball, just about you being the best person you could be, but making sure that I value you as a, as a divine spark, you might even say, or human being or masterpiece, the word I use. And so he brought me in and of course when I got there, by that time, Michael Jordan, we talked in July and by the time I got there and in October, Michael was gone. And so they were in full blown crisis. And then that's decided my relationship working with Phil. And so that's how I got into it. That's how it began. I was still working at the medical center, but you know, at the same time it was like when you had a medical school. They like papers, they like publicity, they like people knowing that you're going out and what we're researching and what we're offering is of value to the community.

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Yep. And so with Michael and with Kobe, how did you help elite athletes like those to translate mindfulness into performance? Because you are literally a lot of people talk about high achieving, high performance, peak performance, but none of them are George Mumford. Like, I think you were the person that really, number one, brought it to the world's attention. So I'm giving you credit. I know you're not going to say that. I'm going to say it for you.

Yeah, but.

But there is a thing to get mindfulness into actual performance. And then when you're working with greats like Jordan and Kobe, who from the outside, everyone already thinks that they're there and you can get with them and see that they've got another level that they can get to. Like, how do you do that, brother?

Yes. Well, it's interesting because, because being around greatness all my life, you know, in terms of, you know, all Americans in high school, but, you know, room with Julius and being around him and people don't realize he was like Michael Jordan before Michael Jordan because even as college students, he couldn't go anywhere. He would draw a crowd and, you know, they line up for the game, you know, hours before and whatnot. So it was me just trying to connect with them. I knew I wanted to serve and I knew I wanted to share what I had. And so I talked to them about being spiritual warriors. I talked to them about being in the zone, being in flow and explaining to them, like with, with MJ especially, it's like Helping him understand why he was able to do what he was doing. And also, I didn't have to ask him about the next level because him and Kobe and guys like that and Dr. J, you can name, you know, LeBron, you know, all of the elites, you know, going back to my day when, when I watch himself, you know, watch the Celtics, and, you know, I had favorites. Jerry West, Elden, Bella, you know, I can go on and on, Oscar Robinson. But there was something about the idea I noticed when I used to watch these cats play. And, like, for the first three quarters, you know, they'll be shooting shots and they'll be doing things. But when the fourth quarter came, let's see, I was there, I was in the middle. I was watching this stuff. One of my first basketball games I watched was Elgin Bella scoring 61 points against the Celtics in the playoffs, a new championship. So I saw that there was a day hit another level. When it came crunch time, they had another level. And of course, I, you know, I, I studied this stuff, and I was very interested in flowing the zone, so I studied it. So if you want to learn something, you teach it and you, you investigate, you explore it. And of course, I, I, I live in flow a lot now, but when I was an athlete, I had flow experiences. And I remember when it took my game to, like, a whole other level, all of a sudden it's like, whoa, man, this is like, this is different. This is different. And so, yeah, so it was just a matter of me knowing I wanted to serve and, and just, just, you know, going there and meeting people where they are and then figuring it out. There's something about when you see elite performers, they're unlocked. And one way to get unlocked is, is the only way to get unlocked really is, is to say yes to whatever's coming up and then, then figuring out what you need to learn, you know, what the universe is teaching you. Because if you don't learn the lesson and you keep getting it, so you, so you learn. So it's about this, this, this joy of discovery, but also this idea of wanting to help people alleviate or eliminate suffering altogether. So it was like not just performing, but I'm talking about pure performance. Not elite performance is one thing, but pure performance is when you're doing the thing for the activity in and of itself for no reason other than being in the moment and expressing yourself honestly and love and, and being who you are because you're unique. There's no one like you. And so, and Bruce Lee used to talk about it in terms of martial arts is to honestly express yourself. And so. So these folks are unlocked. But there has to be this hunger, this. This desire to want to go to the next level, because what people don't understand is when you go to the next level, it's not like, oh, everything is peaches and cream when you go to the next level. No, they go. In that process, you have to go through what Soren Kerry got talked about. He said, one side of the coin is freedom, potential. The other side is uncertainty and anxiety. So you have to tolerate discomfort. Anxiety comes with it. And so everybody will say, you know, I have clients. Oh, I want to be like Mike. I want to be like Kobe. I said, okay, here's what's required. I. Well, I ain't sign up for that, you know, because it hurts. You know, you have to. You have to get comfortable being uncomfortable.

Yeah.

And if you're not uncomfortable, you're not growing. You see what I'm saying? So with those guys, I didn't have to do anything but just show up. Of course, I had a lot of street credit being Dr. J's roommate. Okay, but just. But also my authenticity and talking about, well, this cat used to be a doping man. He's like. He was in the shooting gallery. Now he's behind the bench of his NBA championship team during the championship run. How the hell does that happen? Yeah, how do you get from there to there? You see what I'm saying? So just. Just. So a lot of it is because I have not made one free throw. One. One turnover, or one cyst. My job is just to help people be who they are. So I just chip away. And, you know, like Michelangelo, you know, when I asked him how does he create these works of art? And he said, all I do is chip away to get to the masterpiece that's already there. So that's what I do. I. I ain't fixing anybody. I'm just helping people unlock. Helping people understand, hey, you know, what you need to succeed is inside is an inside job. And if you go in there and you access it and you express it and share it with the rest of us, that's the bomb. That now we're into something. And so that's. That's what I do. And some people, they get it, and they're looking for that itch. They're not waiting for something. They're proactive. They're saying, okay, I'm doing this, but I got to get better. And so case in point, when Kobe. After Kobe won the championship, maybe it Was it might have been 2009. I don't know what year it was. 2009. During the off season. He's down in Houston working on his post game with Elijah1.

Yep.

Now he just won a championship. But that was the thing. Magic the same way. Okay, I know Bird is working hard. I gotta work hard. Dr. J. I ruined him, man. He's always working on his craft. And so you see what I'm saying? But it's not work. So you couldn't tell the difference between practice and the real game, because every time they get on the court, they were. Their job was to get better. And this is what I tell my clients. I tell people, you don't have to get a whole lot better. Just you can get a little bit better. 1% each day. Each day. Each day you want to be able to finish practice or the game and say, I got better today. Yep, I made progress today. And. And so these guys already knew that all I was doing is just helping them say, okay, here's what you could do. And they just took what I got and just ran with it.

Right. And she did it.

Well, that is. And I used to say to people all the time, I'm not disrespecting anybody, but I said MJ was kind of dude that, you know, this killer instinct. And people talk about it, you know, you have magic Bird. And all I'm talking about, even with that dream team, dude just has this, you know, this energizing enthusiasm or energy. His energy is off the charts. His focus is off the chart. But that's because he was always challenging himself, always looking for something. And so I should say MJ was like, you know, he had the killer instinct. And I said, well, Kobe's the closest thing to him from my experience, you know, working with them up close and personal. And then when Kobe got to the point where he heard his hand, I talked about this in his book, his fingers, and he didn't miss a B. He changed his shot, still shot a high percentage. And that's what it was. He just saw it as a challenge and just moved on and said, okay, I'm gonna change, you know, how much it takes to do something like that or working on a three point shot in the summertime, making 1300 made threes a day. See, he's doing stuff, you know, that mama mentality, you know, that's, you know, you know, it's a secret, but, you know, you know, he could be talking about me.

Right, right.

You know, and that's where, you know, that's it? Because I got the same kind of. That's why I think we. But it's quiet. I got a quiet passion. I'm kind of. I'm like one of those silent assassins, you know, you don't even know, you know, until you say, oh, no, man. Dude just got. Got me. And I didn't see that. But he's just doing this thing. And I'm not saying it like it's me or whatever. What I'm really saying is we all have that.

Yep.

They don't have anything we don't have. They just have a will and an intention to just be who they are and be unlocked. And so if we all unlock, we. We. We'd get that kind of. We'd have that kind of satisfaction with our performance. You know, pure performance where we're just in a moment, you're just performing. You're not doing it. You're doing it for no reason. You're doing it for the love of it. Now, there's certain levels of that, but it's like when. When you see somebody perform like that, it's contagious and it's amazing.

Absolutely.

And that's what we love about sports because we have this ability to go beyond what we think is possible, and every minute, every second, every, Every action wholeheartedly.

And that translates into the real world, the business world, your personal life. And so for me, Unlocked, and I'm gonna again, I'm gonna do a shameless plug for Unlocked right here. So Unlocked with the subtitle of Embrace youe Greatness, find your flow, and discover success. Like, I promise you, I don't care where you're at in life. I don't care where you're at in business. This book is for you. So, George, what I want to do, I want to highlight a few of my favorite quotes because I now get to talk to the source. It's rare that you can have your favorites and then talk to the source. I'm going to eat all of this up. Right? So chapter three, one of my quotes. Chapter three is mental discipline training. Right? So, see, I remember everything. This is how much I read this book.

Okay?

You say that we need to create space between any given stimulus we may receive in our response to it. And so me and my team, when we broke that down, we said, you know what? George is explaining what we call emotional intelligence, but in a very articulate way, create space between any given stimulants and your response to it.

Right?

Like that simple. Like, to me, that's keeping the simple things. Simple. I just love how you just. Again, it's a quote from the book, but it articulated and resonated with me because I'm like, that's emotional intelligence right there.

Yeah. So, you know, let's just talk about emotional intelligence because, you know, I'm. Well, you probably noticed, but your readers don't know this. I mean, your listeners don't know this. I'm a recovering perfectionist, okay? So when I learn something, whatever, I do them all in. Right?

Right.

So I'm coming up on 41 years of sobriety in July. July 30th. And over that time I've read over a book a week. Okay? So emotional intelligence, this is what we call eq. This has to do with the heart. Social, emotional, you know, in our relationships and whatnot. So there's four components to that. And you know, traditionally we talk about it as self awareness, self regulation, social awareness, and relationship development. They say relationship management. I don't like the word management because you manage things, you lead people. So it's more according to Stephen Covey anyway and he sold 50 million copies of it, so he know what he's talking about. So, so it's, it's. And so it's about this idea that we have this ability as human beings to step back and observe our experience. So we're talking about a certain kind of awareness, like mirror minus awareness, that's inclusive. It just allows us to see things. And we can, through our self awareness, we can self regulate. That means we can, you know, which is another part of emotional intelligence. We can regulate our thoughts, feelings, behaviors, and even how we interpret things. We have autonomy and that's it. We make choices. We are responsible. When we accept responsibility, then we can choose and we can make choices. And so I don't care what situation we're in, there's always a little bit of space, right? But if we can create more space, if we can pause and reflect, if we could be still and know, or be still told, we know. I'm going in bible over here, but you get what I'm saying? Yeah, you, you create space. And in that space, and this is what Victor Frankel talked about, in that space is the freedom and power to choose. Now how do you use that space? Well, if you have a principal, senate, purpose or life, now in that space, you get to choose according to your values, according to your goal, according to who you say you are and what you say you want to do. And so for the most part, we are an automatic pilot and we got These programs that are running without our permission. And so I'm talking about. We have this ability to sit back and observe things. And then that observation. We can start to see how things. How things arise and pass away. We start to see how things are connected. We start to see that when I'm just real basic stuff. So, you know, with this, you know, reptilian brain, that. The emotional, you know, that reptilian brain and those fight, flee, freeze and fun, which is like, you know, you, you know, become a doormat, whatever it is, however you want to look at it. But here's the thing. So when we get in and it's interesting because the fight is. Is helpful because sometimes you gotta fight. You got to use that fight to look, okay, I'm gonna go here to look for food, or I'm gonna go here where. Where I can figure stuff out or whatever. So the fight fighter freeze. And so. But we have the middle brain, which is the emotional brain. And then we have the prefrontal cortex where we can actually, you know, use. You know, we can, you know, the executive function. Right. So a lot of times when you get emotionally hijacked, we get. Something happens. Like, I'll talk about my boy Dennis Rodman, when he was. When he was on the sideline and he tripped over the reporter. It was like, that was a hijack because this dude could have ended his career.

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So instead of having the space and choose your response, there was no space. It was an automatic reaction. And so when you're in survival mode, that's what you do. And what you see is danger. Nine out of ten thoughts of danger. So you're in survival mode, then you, you're not in growth mode. You're not in a mode where you have space and you can think. So you're in fear. No space. You're in love or growth mode. You have space. And so we have to understand that. It's like, and it's interesting because I didn't put my glasses on, but, but it's like being in survival mode of growth mode. If you're in survival mode. If I have on the fair glasses, I'm looking for danger. And I'm probably gonna fight you or run.

Yeah.

Or freeze until I figure stuff out. Or play dead, whatever it is. And then find whatever, you know, just tell you what you want to hear so I can stay safe. Safe. Okay. You know, it's like, you know, they say attack dogs and they have attack dog on you. If you, if you show any kind of emotion, they attack you. But if you do this, they, they come down. And so it, this is, this is our nature. Right? And so we are learning how to say, when I'm in survival mode, I'm probably not seeing things clearly. And I'm probably. Because here's the secret. And this guy, Bruce Lipton, he wrote a book called the Biology of Belief. He said on a cellular level, the cell is either in survival mode or growth mode. You can't be in both. So what we're doing is we're creating a space so we can actually choose and see before we leap. Right. And so now we're making wise choices. And we're also learning how stuff works. Does that make sense? And so that self regulation. So I, so what I, what I teach is self awareness, self regulation, to get the self mastery. So self mastery is getting to the point where it doesn't matter what happens to you. I don't mean like it doesn't matter, but whatever happens to you, you get to choose your attitude and how you're going to respond or react to it. Are you going to withdraw and, and, and freeze? Or you're going to open up and use your, your resources to align yourself to make the choice, the best choice available for you in that time. And so we. Some bad, more foes. We, we got this ability, but you gotta, you gotta, you gotta own it and you gotta train it. You gotta, you gotta train yourself.

Yep.

So that you can be in the moment and you can see clearly, but in that space, and as you do it more and more, instead of having this much space, you have this much space. Keep space. And I call the eye of a hurricane so one of the ways I think about it and you know, in the Bible talks about this stuff, it says, be still and know. Right. It also talks about a double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Yeah.

So if you're not a one mind, if you're not in the moment, you're not focused on the one thing, then you, you are shaky ground. I'm not making this up. This is, this is what the power says and you can see it for yourself.

Yes, sir.

What I'm saying. So, so the best thing we can do is understand, am I in survival mode? If I'm in survival mode, then how do I get out of it and get into growth mode or how do I create space? So, and sometimes we react to it, but can we reflect on that and say, okay, when it happens again, this is what I'm going to do?

That's it.

You're learning. So that's, that's the competitive edge. Does that make sense?

I love it. It totally makes sense. It totally makes sense. I have to go to chapter seven though, George.

Yeah.

Because chapter seven. Yeah, I think you wrote it for me. Ladies and gentlemen, the title of Chapter 7 is Letting Go of Mistakes. Yes, George, I needed every. I read chapter seven once a week.

Okay, that's good.

My quote that I go to, and we literally just had this call last Tuesday with the team, 100% of the time, we need to be moving towards our goal. Understood?

Yes.

But then you follow up and you say in order to do that, we need to be able to let go of our mistakes. And George, I pause every time I read it because it's like every time I read it, I feel like I'm reading it for the first time and I'm like, dang it, Mick. You don't have to be a perfectionist at everything. You can learn from the mistakes, but you got to let go of them at some point. Right. Because we're taught, learn from your mistakes, learn from your mistakes. But what George taught me was, yeah, but at some point you got to let go. And so George, for the, for the viewer, for the listener, that's like me that struggles letting go of mistakes. How do we do it?

That's really important because we get identified with it and we're in it and we're focused on it. Instead of when you make a mistake that's interesting. If you play instrument, you know, you're playing a guitar and you hit the wrong note, if you stop instead of just keep playing, people won't even notice it. But then you mentally know, okay, I need to reflect on that. When I'm not, not now, but later. I need that, you know, the post performance. I need to reflect on it and, and say, okay, how do I change that? What do I need to do so that I, I hit the right note? You understand what I'm saying? And so. But we're not our mistakes. Mistakes are just feedback. This is a neuro linguistic programming thing. There's no such thing as failure, just feedback. Yeah. So it's telling you, okay, so the question is, what do I need to learn and practice so that I could do it and what's it telling me? And, and you see people all the time is like, we talk about basketball, we're in the playoffs, could be ice hockey, let's talk about basketball. And so you miss a shot, you say, okay, I got to make the next shot. Instead of when you miss a shot, you gotta say, okay, so what do I need to do? You mentally know, okay, I gotta. Next time I just gotta keep my elbow in or stick it or, or use my feet. Whatever it is you mentally know. But then you have to drop it and then make the next play. It's always about the next play. If you're in a mistake, that's how you get scored on or that's how you, you carry that mistake for, for the rest of the game or the rest of that, that sequence. And so there has to be a, you know, short. You'll be able to just let it go or just drop it for now, bracket it and set it aside. You'll get to it later, but right now it's the next moment. You got to make the next play.

I love it.

What's important now that that's the thing to win. What's important now? Just, just do the next thing. And once again it comes back. Do what you know to do and the next step will be given to you. It's just really simple. You know, this stuff, I'm not making this up. It's just really, really simple. But we get attached to it and we think about it. And the more you think about it, the more you reflect on it, the more it's in your mind and it's preoccupying. So you're not really here. You're still in the past, you're not in the moment. And so this idea. So how do you do it? You just notice it. But even calling it a mistake, it creates a whole physiological reaction when you get into survival mode and you're trying not to make a mistake. And that's when you make more mistakes.

Yeah.

You try, you know, and you. And so you have to understand, oh, it's as simple as just saying, oh, that's just feedback, no judging. Just notice it. Okay. Bracket it and then we'll get back to it. Because that's telling you where your opportunity is. See, that's the mindset of a. Of an elite performer is you see it as a challenge, but you also see it as an opportunity to improve.

Yeah.

Instead of seeing it as a. As a reflection on who you are.

No, I agree.

And what I wrote, does that make sense?

It totally makes sense. Because what I wrote down the first time I read it was I wrote, George gave me permission to make a mistake. Because I think a lot of times we hold that in and we bottle it up.

Right.

Like, we can't make mistakes, but you can give yourself permission and then your outlook changes. And for me, I know you talk about flow a lot. It allows me to get into flow and stay in the flow. When I give myself permission to make a mistake, and it could be a mistake in anything. Whatever I'm working on at that time, I give myself the permission. And so I wanted to thank you for that because literally, up until two years ago, when I read the book, I thought I couldn't make mistakes. And if I did make a mistake, I had to learn from it to never make it again. But what you said was, let it go, give yourself permission.

Yeah. And it's like everything else. We have an emotion, we have a feeling, and we identify with it and we become it and we keep focusing on it. We keep it in our mind and we can't let it go. And the more we think about it, the more, you know, it's like, it's like it has like. Yeah. Velcro on both things. If you try to push it away or pull it towards you, you're stuck with it. And the idea is not to get stuck, because if you're stuck with that, you're not available for the next thing.

That's it.

You're actually imprisoned. You're actually locked.

Yeah. So speaking of locked, I want to go rapid fire with you because you've been so gracious with your time. I know you're busy and I don't want to hold you on, but I want to ask you a couple of rapid fire questions. You talk about just now. Locked. What's the cost for the listeners and viewers? What's the cost of staying locked?

Freedom, power, love, gratification. What. What loss is your Life. You're not, you're. You're not, you know, but the thing. First thing is self expression, power and the, you know, your ability to do whatever, you know, to have to be spontaneous. That's another way of saying to be in his own. And what is spontaneity means being of one's own self, being of your own mind. So nothing is. You're not being reacted upon. You are acting. You actually, you have autonomy. You get to choose.

Yeah.

You get to direct your attention. And so. So that's the cost when you're locked up. It's like. Say it another way. So I have this pad of paper and let's say I have. You don't have to know the reading, but I got all this writing on it. And so with the writing there, there's no space to create. You got to fill it in between. But if I show you this, it's a blank slate. There's nothing there. But here's the secret. There's nothing there. And because nothing is there, everything is there.

Yeah.

So now that's where your imagination, then you have room. You're not restrict. You don't have restrictions. It's not like, you know, you're. You're in a, you know, let's think about. You're in a coffin or sarcophagus and it. Close the lid and you're safe in there, but you're stiff, can't move. Life is about movement. Life is about having. Getting out of the. Getting out of these, you know, out of the, you know, getting out of the box or. Or getting to the point where you can just be able to move the way you need to. Yeah. Instead of being restricted so and so. And it's a mental thing. So when you get locked up mentally, your body, your mind, your heart and your soul are all locked up. Love it.

Love it. Two more questions. So I'm a. I'm a Chapel Hill guy. I'm a UNC grad. I'm a Tar Heel through and through. So I tell people all the time between Michael Jordan, Lawrence Taylor and myself, we have a lot of world championships from us.

I know a lot of NC grads, man.

Yes, sir.

Rick Fox.

Yeah.

Name a few.

Worthy Vince Carter. Like we could. We could have a whole session just on UNC grade.

Perkins. Yeah, Kenny. Kenny. Charlie Scott. One of my favorite dudes.

Yeah.

Nc. You know, back in the day when they didn't have too many of us.

Yep, yep. Absolutely. So you. You're not going to give yourself enough credit, but I'm going to ask you this because you work with, with mj, you work with Jordan and you're going to say he was already there. He was already great, which he was. Not denying that. But what's one thing that you had to help MJ unlearn to become Michael Jordan?

It's interesting. Well, he, he, you know, he says it all the time. I helped him with his leadership when he came back, you know, he's coming back after getting beat up by, by, by the, you know, the bad boys, you know, and whatnot. And then he came back at 18 months. And these guys are all in the shadow of that. But yet they haven't won anything. And, but yet, but it was like, okay, so you guys don't really know what it takes to really do this. And you guys, you know, you got to put in that, you know, it's old school. You know, you got to fight for this stuff.

Yeah.

And so one of the things I, I helped them do is be able to meet people where they are and realize that they don't see where you are, but you have to, you have to meet them where they are. Then you, it's called leading and pacing. It's a neuro linguistic programming technique or filter, if you want to look at it that way. It's like, you meet people, you develop the rapport and then you lead. You, you, you meet them where they are and then you decide, you give them a say on where they're going. See, this is a part of leadership that's really important. When you're a leader, you give other people a say in where you're going because then, now they're in it. It's not your team, it's our team. It's not your company, it's our company. And we have to get that one where everybody has value in my job. And what I was telling them is you have to model, trust and inspire.

That's it.

You have to model the behavior. But then you have to trust them and inspire them to do it. Because I remember when, when Phil talked about talking to Michael about letting the other guys have more, you know, be more involved. And he had ideas about, okay, so, and it, and he wasn't wrong. You know, you got a post player and he's got the ball. He's got to learn how to have footwork and learn how to control. So he's not just post, but he has to learn other skills so that he can, he can, he can handle the ball. He knows how to pivot away from pressure and he understands the game. And so that's the thing. So everybody has to learn practice so that they can perform. Does that make sense? And so, so, so he had to open that up. And so as leaders, as people that even our people we engaged in, we have to see them as just my opinion, as their. Of what they're possible becoming instead of seeing them where they are.

Yes, sir.

And then, and then encouraging them, inspire them. But they got to do the work. So that's where it becomes challenging because they have to take ownership. So I am responsible. I make choices. No bnd. The BND is not allowed. You know what the BND is?

What's that?

Blame and denial.

Love it.

No, it's like I am responsible. Boom. Once you embrace it. Yeah, okay, I didn't, I didn't ask for this, but now that I'm here, how am I gonna, what am I gonna do in that space between stimulus and response? And am I going to be who I say I am? Am I going to do what I say I want to do? I have that opportunity, but I have to self regulate. I have to. And it's uncomfortable and part of us comfortable blaming other people or denying it or. But if I can say, yeah, I can't take responsibility for. I can't control some things, but I can always choose how I respond to it. And that's where the ultimate freedom is being able to choose. And that's, that's what we can do. And then once you do that now you develop this ability to know it doesn't matter what happens on some level. What matters is what you're going to do. Are you going to get down, you know, still cool in the game, what you going to do, right? Get up off the wall, you know, you got to get up and get down. I'm just, you know, and that's it. But once we all assume responsibility and say, okay, here's my role, here's how I can contribute, here's how I can help. So it's our team, as our community. It's not waiting for somebody to come by. And as a country and as a society, we have this choice. We're waiting for other people to save us. Instead of saying, we are the solution, we the people, we have to say, hey, you know, you know, true north, you know, there's principles involved here. Love, compassion, you know, seeking to understand. And I, any other one, you know, I can't just make you a thing and then treat you like any old thing. No. And if somebody else is doing that, my name I gotta say, hey, I'm not down with that.

Right?

And we don't treat people that way, Right? You know, we don't, we don't relate to each other that way. We have to have mutual benefit, mutual respect. We have to understand how to do that. Now, we hold people accountable, but you don't have to make them into objects where you can just hate on them or treat them any old way.

I love it, man. I love it.

You see what I'm saying? And so when we can do it, and me as a leader, that's how I read I, I, I, I, I model behavior, but I give people a saying what, what we're doing and say, okay, what do you want to do? And it could be like, where I'm going and you're not going in the same direction. There's a book called Good to Great. They said before you get on the bus, you decide where you, and decide where you want to go. You make sure you have the right people on the bus and the wrong people off the bus. And that's the thing. And that's a choice. Do you want to be here? Yeah. Okay. Here's why, here's what we're into. If you're not into that, you know, as my father used to say, don't let the door hit you with a dog should have bit you. You know, nothing, nothing personal, but you got to go. Like her father would say, you don't have to go home, but you got to get out of here.

That's it.

You got to get off this bus. You know, nothing personal, but you made a choice not to be here. So, you know, you know, good luck. But, but if this is what we're up to, and if you're in for it, if you have the same values we have, you know, their core values align with true north. Like all the things I talked about, you know, compassion, seeking to understand mutual benefit, mutual respect, love, compassion. Being curious and trying to understand this thing. Enjoy and love. Not in, in this fear or, you know, trepidation. No, it's like you gotta, you gotta be all in. Yes to it.

Yes, sir. Last one, George. And this is a plug for you, for the viewers and listeners that are like, man, all this, all this wisdom that George has been dropping. If they want to potentially work with you or find you, follow you, where should they go?

My website, georgemon.com. they can go there and, and they can, you know, and you go on, and the website will tell you all you need to know. You know, you can, you email and you can get on the email list, but there's a lot out there. If you go to YouTube. I have a YouTube channel with what I do at home with George every Thursday. So we got over 200 episodes of that. You know, obviously you can get my book in, you know, Amazon or, or any, you know, you know, Random House, Penguin, you know, all of those books, book places. But, but it's really. And then if you just Google my name on it, on Google me, you'll see all kinds of stuff.

That's my, that's my favorite line in the world. When, when you're at that status, when you can just say, google me, you know, you're somebody as, as George would say, you know, you are a bad mofo at that point.

Well, you know, it's interesting because I have this friend of mine rolling and he was teaching interviewing course at VTech. And so I went to work with him and, and his students interviewed me. And that's when I, I became aware of it. He said, okay, here's the process. You gotta, you gotta find out who this guy is and what you can find out. They went on Google and there's all this stuff. I said, whoa, I had no idea I had all that stuff was on Google. And, and so that's it. You know, it's like anything else. You want to go to Google. Now here's the interesting thing. Just like there's a Google and you can put in a subject and you get the information. When we, when we go inside, there's a part of us, there's that place of rest, the stillness, the idol, hurricane. I talk about where, where all the answers we need are already there.

Yes, sir.

It's just like Google. If you, if you just reflect on it and think about it, you can get the access to auto access. You, oh, you need to go to this one or talk to this one. Or like you said, I need to talk to Mr. Mumford. I need to read this book. And so just, just so you know, my Mindful Athlete book, I read that over 60 times.

Wow.

And the Unlocked book, I probably read about 15 times already. 20 times. Well, and every time I read it, I find something else. And I said, well, who wrote that? That's some good stuff.

Well, now, now I feel good.

Yeah. But here's the thing is, when you get in the flow, when you accessing that, that higher consciousness, or when you're coming from that silence, there's a wisdom and creativity man, that you have no idea. That's what you see people in the zone or flow. That's what it is. But if you ask them, they. They say there's no self consciousness. It's like I'm not there because the spirit is just moving through me. Call it love, whatever. It's moving through you and you just know stuff. You have premonition, you know, oh, this is going to happen. Don't know. I don't know how you know it, but you know it and you could see it. And this is what I tell my athletes, whether they're a hockey goalie or soccer goalie or whatever. It's like when you are in that silence, your body's already moving where the ball is going to go.

Yeah.

Now you're playing on a spiritual level and you. You start to see things. And the same thing if you're in the outfield, you know, you know, you can see your body starts going. But we get in the way and we start thinking, well, should there that. No, man, shut up. Just. Just be still or. No, just be still. And. And your body, you did the training now and let it take over. Yeah. And. But that's when we're not into this. How am I doing? You know, I'm. I'm compelled by fear, desire. No, you're not compelled by either one. You're just in your center and you're just honestly expressing yourself, fully deployed in the moment. That's it.

Yes, sir. Mr. Mumford, it's been an absolute honor and pleasure to have you on this show again. The icon that you are, the legend that you are. But who you are means the world to me. So I'm just so honored that you took some time out of your busy schedule to spend with me.

Appreciate you saying that. And the thing is, it's being unlocked and you're not unlocked all the time, just for a moment or whatever. And then you keep unlocking, unlocking. But the same capacity that you see in me is in you and everybody else.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I appreciate it. To all the viewers and listeners, remember your because is your superpower. Go unleash it.

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Mick Unplugged. If today hits you hard, then imagine what's next. Be sure to subscribe, rate and share this with someone who needs it. And most of all, make a plan and take action, because the next level is already waiting for you. Have a question or insight to share, send us an email to hello icunplugged.com until next time. Ask yourself how you can step up.

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