Angela Raitzin: Life Changes, Ted Lasso, and the Power of Curiosity

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Hello and welcome to Barron's The Way Forward. I'm Greg Bartalusz, and my guest today is Angela Radsen, Managing Director and Wealth Manager at Crescent. Today we'll be discussing how she helps clients in transition at pivotal points in their lives. Welcome to the podcast, Angela.

Oh, thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate being here.

Excellent. Well, definitely excited to meet with you and have this conversation. Tell us first a little about your background, what you do now at Crescent, And then let's tackle the topic at hand.

Sure. You know, I started my post-collegiate career in public accounting at PricewaterhouseCoopers. I spent some time in corporate finance, got an MBA from the Cox School of Business in Dallas, moved to New York to work for the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, which was fantastic. And then I spent about 10 years in sales and trading for corporate bonds. And then I came over to this side of the business a little over 10 years ago. Joined my current team, led by Paul Tramontano, and we've been together ever since.

Great. And Crescent's definitely been growing pretty dramatically.

Yes. I mean, listen, I think the story of Crescent really resonates with people. Fiduciaries first, a wide breadth of offerings, family office services. Sometimes you don't know what you, what you need until someone talks to you about different aspects of your life. And then I just think the story really resonates, especially with entrepreneurs.

OK, now talk to me about helping clients in transition and what that entails.

Sure. Well, first of all, I have a bit of a theme, which is be curious, not judgmental. And for any of the Ted Lasso fans out there, they'll recognize this from, quote, the dart episode. And the idea is just when you're meeting with clients to be very open-minded and to ask broad questions. So one of the first things I do every quarter, every meeting, is literally, so what's new? And what I find is— and I don't interrupt. This is a really important part, is don't talk, right? Let the client tell you what's top of mind to them, because often the thing that's been on their mind that they may not even realize it will come stream of consciousness, right? So be open, be curious, ask open-ended questions. And then particularly what I find is that clients going through a transition are particularly vulnerable. They don't know what they don't know, and they're not even sure who to— whom to ask. And so being open to helping them through that period can be extremely valuable. I'm here to help them with their finances, but it's the emotional side that I think will stick with them. It's very emotional if you've become a recent widow, if you're contemplating a divorce, if you're contemplating selling or, you know, selling your company, growing your company. And there are just times when Being open to those conversations can be really helpful to clients.

And what are you listening for? I mean, there's the obvious of what they're saying, but reading between the lines, are you just trying to assess maybe where their head's at? What, just, is it holistic how you approach this? Just kind of sit back and give them the mic and observe and piece it together?

Well, a great question to ask is, where are you in the process? Again, just an open-ended question. Where are you in the, you're contemplating a divorce, Where are you in the process? You're a recent widow. I'm so very sorry to hear that. Where are you in the process of settling the estate? You're contemplating selling your company. Does your accountant know? Does your lawyer know? Have you hired an investment banker? And the earlier I'm aware of the situation, a lot of times the more helpful I can be. And we find that the earlier we get involved, The more we can lift the burden of some of these steps for the client. And again, a lot of times people literally don't know what they don't know, and they're not sure how to get started. And so just being open to having the conversation can be really helpful to them.

I mean, you could ask many, many follow-up questions and keep going. At what point do you kind of feel like you stop? I mean, because like, you know what I mean? You could always keep going extra levels. Is it just when you have a feel? I don't want to put words into your mouth. When do you back off and say, okay, let's now go to the next step?

So when they start repeating themselves the second or third time, then you're like, okay. So if— and then again, what you do in terms of active listening is you repeat back. So what I'm hearing you say is— did I get that right? Right. So you repeat back and sometimes you try to add the emotion that they didn't mention. Right. Retirement is another really big one that I'm talking to a lot of clients about right now. Thinking about retirement? What does that look like for you? And that's another great open-ended question. What does that look like for you? Because, you know, we've talked a little bit about working with widows. What does the future look like for you? What is your— what is the thing that you always wanted to do that you never got around to? And how do we make that a reality now?

So when you deal with widows, there are a few steps, right? So you begin with the process of the kind of the brass tacks, like the dreams is not the first thing, right? Tell me about that process.

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, listen, um, that is a multifaceted, multi-year recovery, but I, I break it down into 3 simple parts. One, the first of which is really just the paperwork, you know, getting the accounts moved over, talking to the trust and estate attorney. So it's really, I almost call it the icky part, right? It's that first little bit, which is much more administrative, but it's, you know, if that's something that we can take off their hands at at that point in time, it's very helpful, right? The next is we talk about, okay, in the immediate, are you thinking of retiring? What is your cash flow? So it's really in the— so there's the short, the medium, and the long term. In the medium, do you have enough money to live on? Do you have access to assets? You know, what are you thinking about doing with the house? That kind of thing. And then the third phase where we try to get to is, I know this isn't what you wanted, I know it's not what you planned, but how do we make the best of this, right? Almost kind of a make lemonade. How do we make the best of the situation? And I've literally had clients travel around the world. I've had— I've helped them set up foundations. I've helped them learn Spanish. Right. So it's how do we get you to a place where you're kind of living the things that you had always wanted to do but had never gotten around to?

Tell me about the timeline for this. So this is very clear, right? 1, 2, 3, but given the emotional magnitude of what we're dealing with, when typically does the discussion of the dreams, if you will, part enter the picture? Is it kind of maybe when you're in that second part with the budgets and trusts and planning and whatnot? And is it maybe dependent on the individual? Some people may be like, I maybe need less time to heal, if you will. Other people are like, I can't do anything for 3 years. Like, I just need to lay low. So how do you, How does all that play out?

I think it's very person to person. I would say 6 months to 2 years. But I introduce the topic relatively soon because I think it's— you need to help people see the bridge to the other side. So if they can envision, hey, there is a process. Sometimes, you know, when we don't have control, that can be very disconcerting to people. When you give them, hey, there is a path. There is a path forward and I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but we're going to get you to the other side of it. It gives them control in some way and helps them see the future. And I do think that they'll get there a little bit sooner if they know what's coming next. And you can't undo what's happened, but you can make it better and you can allow them to, to grieve on their own time. But knowing that, hey, eventually we are going to set up this foundation, eventually we are going to help you move closer to the grandkids. Right? And I think knowing that that's coming is comforting, even if it's, you know, still a year or two out.

Yeah, and I imagine that it just would be helpful for them too. They might get, I don't know, a letter in the mail about something that they otherwise would just throw out, but it might be related to something that— if you talk at planting the seed, like, hey, eventually there might be a dream or something, and they might be thinking a little of that in parallel while grieving. There's that other little part, we're just wondering and daydreaming and turning it over. Very interesting.

Well, I'm going to say something which is non-controversial, but is kind of controversial. Women live longer. They just do.

That's not controversial. It's a fact.

But women in their 50s and 60s don't really comprehend that. And so I have Many friends, parents of friends, clients who spent the last 2 to 5 years of their spouse's lives caring for them. Right. So again, it's, it's not a pleasant conversation. But for them to start collecting travel brochures that next year or two, I do think creates a vision for what comes next. Right. And travel is a big one where they're able to go and do things they wouldn't have done otherwise. And it— I do believe it's part of the healing process.

Tell me more about the role of trust and listening, because working with this kind of a client, it's very, it's very different than just checking in with your tax accountant once a year and saying, here's my 1040. It's very heavy, I'm sure. And you're dealing— the relationship's going from zero to something intense quickly. So I don't know. Just tell me about that.

Sure. I think what I have found is that many recent widows want to work with a female advisor. They actually ask to speak to a female advisor. And I think they want that handholding because I do think that— and I, you know, again, I'm not being— I don't want to make broad stereotypes, but I do think women are terrific listeners. And I think that we can be sympathetic as well as a little empathetic to what the person is going through. And again, we create a safe space for them to talk about how they're feeling, how we can help, how we can build the future, and how we can and get them to a place where they are feeling safe, secure, and happy again. Where when they are first going through this, they can feel very lost. They can be— I'm not saying they are floundering, but they can feel like they're floundering.

Being dispassionate, right, in that context where the other person's feeling very emotionally charged is of even more importance, right? You need to be a stabilizing and steadying influence.

And it's interesting, I love that word, because I feel like we can be compassionate and dispassionate at the same time. I can understand what they're going through and want to be helpful and listen. Again, in that situation, you know, I don't interrupt them, right? They can go on for 20 minutes or 2 hours. Has never gone on for 2 hours. But being that ear to make it a safe place to talk about, I think, is really helpful. And again, gets them the comfort that you are there. I use the word fiduciary a lot. You're really there. To be that fiduciary to help them navigate what's a very difficult situation and kind of get it to the other side.

Is the client experience— has it been relatively constant in terms of the engagement, or has anything changed over the years? I don't know. I'm not sure in what way things might change. I mean, this seems very human and personal, so probably not, but I don't know.

Yeah. Listen, it's, um, I think the way that I approach it is that, um, every client is very different, but a lot of them feel the same. There's, you know, there's a sequence that seems familiar. And, um, eventually, listen, eventually the, we just talk about the future. We just talk, you know, we get, we don't talk about the past. We don't even necessarily talk about the present, but we're able to talk about the future. And I think that feels really good for them.

You do some work in terms of providing education for women. There's a quarterly event. Tell me about that.

Sure. So, And so, with the help of a dear friend, Chris Carey, I developed a program, Women, Wine, and Wealth. And the idea was to create a safe space for women at various levels of their career. We have people who are in their 20s up to people in their 60s and 70s attend, who again, want a safe place to talk about their finances. And so, what I do, and I highly recommend this to any other advisors, I do usually have a female vintner come in and talk about the wine. So, I'm an aspiring sommelier. Bollier. Sometimes I'll talk about the wine. We have everyone go around the room, talk about themselves. One thing I like to do is have every person have an ask or a win. And what that does, I feel like, is get everybody emotionally connected to each other, to celebrate each other's wins, and then also to become invested in each other's future and well-being. And then we always talk— after I've gotten them good and liquored up with the wine, and they've got this warm fuzzy feeling because they're in a a room full of amazing women that they would all love to know. Then we talk about a super boring— I'm going to use the word boring, but super important topic like trust and estate planning, education planning, retirement planning, tax planning. And I'm telling you, these women are so engaged. They love it. They get very upset with me when I tell them we're not going to have another one for a full quarter. Right. Because I only do them once a quarter. And I have found it to be a great place for women to come in and be open and ask questions that they might not ask in a mixed room, if you will. No one's there to one-up or impress anybody. We're really just there getting information. And I have found it to be really helpful for people to ask follow-up questions. You know, someone's giving you information, you can nod your head. But hey, what about this? And hey, what about this? And then what I always find is there'll be one or two people in the room who are actually very knowledgeable and have I have a good story and a bad story. And I think both are really helpful. And it's always organic. I don't, you know, I don't plant anybody. But there'll always be someone who had a great trust and estate attorney who was able to get them through something. And there'll always be someone who had a bad experience, right, or whose friend had a bad experience. And we'll discuss with the women and share with the women why it's so important. These basic— the way that, you know, there's an idea of, I like having run. I don't like running. I like having run. I don't like going to the dentist. I like moving the dentist office. Well, it's the same thing with some of these topics, right? Nobody wants to sit down and do them, but everyone would love to have them done. And I think hearing from other people who've gone through the experience and gotten to the other side, there's just a weight lifted, right? There's just a sigh of relief of, I did it. I now know who will be the guardians of my children, for example, which is often one of the hardest questions for young parents.

Yes, and I guess hearing it firsthand from people in this supportive atmosphere is far more productive, constructive than someone picking up some dusty hardcover, you know, written 11 years ago and you're like, it just feels a little inaccessible, right? Maybe the message is the same, but it comes across quite differently.

Right, and if I can share one other thing along those same lines, everybody learns differently. Somebody who learns just by reading a book, is very different from someone who will learn from an experience of talking to other people. And so it's just for people who learn best by hearing other people and listening and interacting, I mean, this is just one other tool for them to do the things that they know they need to do, that they want to have done, but that they dread actually picking up the phone and having that conversation.

And in addition to the immediate support they receive, it must do wonders for networking and forging friendships. It has to happen, right?

100%. Yeah. Yeah. So I generally, I will generally know about 80%, 75 to 80% of the people in the room, 20 to 25 will be new. And they have absolutely gone on to have friendships completely separate from me. They've absolutely done business separate from me. They've hired each other. They've used each other for, you know, professional and personal, you know, follow-on. And I think it's been fantastic. And that is part of it, of, you know, the thing about the good old boys' network. I do give a little spiel during my part of the presentation that says, I want us to have our good old girls' network. That says when you need a great trust and estate attorney, oh, I know somebody. You're looking for a new accountant. Oh, I know somebody. You're thinking about selling your company. Oh, well, I know somebody who's done 3 of those. And having that, you know, I think the other thing with having these quarterly is that you do build relationships with people, right? You do see them. You know, maybe half the people in the room are repeat attendees. And so you do have this sense of you are building a community. And then the other thing is, when were you going to see these people? When were you ever going to run into them? So there's, you know, and then you have gone, you've had some good wine, you've had some good conversation, you've listened to a good topic, you're kind of in a good place to build on that.

The name, by the way, Women, Wine and Wealth is outstanding. You get like the triple alliteration. It's the trifecta. Terrific. I mean, you should like trademark that or something. Or get womenandwealth.com.

I'm telling you, Well, I just announced it on Barron's, so it's probably going to be used by other people. But no, Crescent in general, if I don't mind, if you don't mind my adding, we are building this as a national program at Crescent and to have it in, you know, different offices. I think in March for Women's International Day, we're actually going to do this across the entire country and have different people in different offices throw different programs. But the idea will be, you know, to really bring people together who want to get their finances in order, but also enjoy themselves and meet great people at the same time.

Excellent. Speaking of meeting great people, it was a pleasure meeting you.

It's my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Thanks so much. I really appreciate it. My guest was Angela Rietzen. For more advisor-specific podcasts, please check out barons.com/podcast. For The Way Forward, I'm Greg Bartolis.

This podcast was brought to you by Wells Fargo Advisors. Looking for a firm your clients can't outgrow? Wells Fargo Advisors offers financial advisors full balance sheet solutions with wealth planning, investment products, banking, and lending that meet the needs of affluent to ultra-high net worth clients. Build your practice your way and on your schedule with independent and employee model options designed to meet your needs today and tomorrow. Learn more at joinwfadvisors.com.