Barry Ritholtz: How Advisors Can Create Killer Content

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Hello and welcome to Barron's The Way Forward. I'm Greg Bartlett, and my special guest today is Barry Ritholtz. Most listeners likely know who Barry is, but for those who don't, he's the founder and CIO of Ritholtz Wealth Management, a New York-based RIA. He also hosts the influential and, must add, excellent Master in Business podcast on Bloomberg. A lawyer by training, Barry began blogging in the 1990s on Yahoo! Geocities. And today his Big Picture blog reaches more than half a million readers per month. He also publishes the popular Ritholtz Reads newsletter. On today's podcast, he will distill all his wealth management experience and media savvy to share the key ingredients that advisors need to succeed as online content creators, well, offline as well. Welcome to the program, Barry.

Thanks so much for having me.

Before an advisor embarks on being a content creator, there's some big other questions they should answer. Is that right?

Yeah, for sure. Starting with, why do you want to be a content creator? You know, there's this sort of misunderstanding that I know I'll start a blog and people will read it and then they'll send me money and we'll have millions of dollars. And it doesn't quite work out that way. It's not what people think. It is not a shortcut to capturing assets. What it does is allow prospective clients to find you, to figure out who you are, and to decide if, hey, this person looks like a good fit for what I'm looking for in an advisor, which is very different than post a blog or a YouTube video or a podcast and cash rolls in. It really doesn't work that way.

Right. You're exposing a bit of yourself, showing your values, how you think, what you value, what you don't. And hopefully the readers will say, I recognize myself there. And yeah, I agree with this and I agree with that.

Or even better, oh my God, I've been going about this all wrong. And this person had showed me, oh, it's important to not spend all my time chasing alpha. Hey, if I want to have a portion of my portfolio as a potential speculative chunk, that's fine, but I should allow the markets to work for me as effectively and efficiently and cheaply as possible. Every now and then we have clients who come to us and say, you know, I'm just done chasing the dragon. You guys seem to be on top of this. The joke is, you know, it only takes a decade to become an overnight sensation.

Right. And I think a lot of investors chase that dragon for a long, long time, and eventually they all often throw in the towel and be like—

Right.

Yeah. Anything else you can say about should you even be a content creator? And if so, what would be a sign you should? And if so, how to go about that?

So a couple of thoughts. First, I don't find it to be a slog because I, 30 years ago, decided I wanted to become a better writer. And so I made a commitment to get up a little early each morning and write for an hour. On the assumption that years later I would be a better, you know, better author. And, um, hey, after 30 years of cranking out content every morning, it turns out reading good content and writing on a rigorous schedule turns you into a better writer. No doubt about that. The, the question for someone who's thinking about this is, first, are you willing to commit to the that amount of work. It's a lot of work, and especially in the beginning, it's a lot of work. Like, I've noticed that I— not that I like to do hot takes on anything, but I know if I have an idea germinating in my head and I don't want to do a 2,000-word screed, I just want to put down 500 words to say, hey, this is what I'm thinking about, and here's why it's interesting, and perhaps you should look at this chart and consider the same idea. That, you know, 20 years ago would take a couple hours, and now I could tumble that out very, very quickly. But it's a lot of work in the beginning, so the first question is, are you willing to put in all that hard work? The second question, and perhaps the more important one, is what do you have to say? Do you have something that, you know, you can't really fake it on the naked page. If you're speaking and exposing yourself, if you're writing and sharing your thoughts and ideas, you can't wing it. There has to be some substance there, and there has to be some passion there. And a lot of people I've spoken with have said, gee, I'd love to set up a blog for the firm, but I'm not sure what I would talk about. And sometimes I tease it out— what's your focus, who are your clients, what do you work on— and it turns out You know, I was speaking to somebody one day, all their clients were sports figures. Hey, I got to imagine that sports figures have very, very specific and unique, or at the very least different needs than the average mom-and-pop investor. Why don't you focus on that? That makes a lot of sense. Um, or someone, uh, this is a woman who is— has a— I forgot the designation— that specializes in helping people post-divorce. There's a— it's like a— I'm drawing a blank on the CFP version of divorce expertise. Hey, why don't you write about that? What, what is so different about people coming out of a divorce where maybe there are kids involved, maybe there's two separate residences, maybe, you know, there's alimony or palimony? What, what is challenging? Uh, it's not just Cash, what is challenging about doing this? How do you divide up 401(k)s? How do you— there's got to be things specific that you can share your expertise, and you'll attract more of the same clients. And so some people have something to say, they just haven't realized they have an expertise. Talk about what you're really good at. Um, and, and some people are, you know, maybe blogging or podcasting or YouTubing isn't the best use of their skill set.

First a comment, then a question. First comment is that I think what's really great about writing is it really forces you to clarify your thoughts, because when you're just chit-chatting, you can have directional beliefs, and then when you actually write and pick your words carefully, you really scrutinize everything, because you know others are going to be scrutinizing it.

Daniel Boorstin, former Librarian of Congress, said, "I write to figure out what I think, and besides, at that hour, all the bars are closed," was his joke. So, but it's true, writing helps you figure out your actual thought process, right?

And sometimes you'll have a belief, and then as you start writing, you're like, you know what, I don't really believe this anymore. I'm gonna slink away right now.

Yeah, no, it's— I, I can't tell you how many times I have sit— sat down to write something, and by the end of it, it's like, you know, this is much grayer than I— so sometimes it's rare that I sit down and thinking it's black and it turns out to be white. Very often what ends up happening is, hey, you know, everybody wants to point the finger at, that's what caused this. And what you often find is the world is complex and there are many shades of gray and there are a lot of different causations for big complex events. And you don't realize that until you sit and start to think about it.

Yeah, exactly. So let me ask you, let's say someone is capable, they have something to say, they're articulate, etc., and they're like, all right, I'm all in, I want to be a content creator. They have a multitude of options, as you mentioned. YouTube, you could do blog, you could do podcast, etc., or all of the above. Would you recommend that each person take an assessment of their own unique attributes and use that to decide where to go, or would you even just directionally be like, oh no, YouTube is definitely where there's the most opportunity. You can hear the person, see them, etc. Like, how do you make sense of the landscape on that level?

I don't want to get woo-woo about this, but But sometimes the medium or the content calls you. There are people who are, you know, just great on YouTube. The ability to sit and stare at a camera and have— engage in a conversation with the audience, not everybody wants to do that. You get better at it over time, you get more and more comfortable with it over time, but it's certainly a learned skill set. Some people hate it and they're just not comfortable. I find speaking is the easiest for most people to do in a podcast format, but personally, I find the written word is the most useful, especially if you are trying to establish some sort of relationship with an audience who is also a potential client, a potential hire, a potential partner. It's more findable through search, and it's just much easier to read a paragraph or two than it is to tee up a podcast and listen to it.

Right, the shelf life, it's more accessible. It's perpetual, and you can do a keyword search or a phrase and highlight that graph, whereas going through a YouTube, it's like, somewhere in there he said this or that.

And it's hard. So by the way, if you do podcasts, I strongly recommend getting a transcription done because that then becomes searchable.

Exactly. And what about for someone new to this? They could, let's say, tiptoe into the water, going incrementally, trying this, that route. Another approach could do like a blitzkrieg where you're like, boom, lift the curtain and you got a whole bunch. What are your thoughts on all that?

So I know people who have started— the toe in the water was like a newsletter they would send out every week, every month, whatever it happened to be. And they found that that was a very comfortable rhythm. You know, you, you, a week in advance, you want it to be mostly done so you can spend the last week kind of polishing it up. And they found a monthly sort of thing wasn't, um, wasn't that challenging. You didn't have to host a site if you didn't want to. The, the challenge is how do you get that to an audience, and how do you get people, how do you encourage people to share that and sign up for it? I don't use Substack, but I have a lot of friends who do, have been really happy with it. Uh, personally, I noticed the other day that I have multiple email addresses, and one of them I just use for all the research and the stuff that I want to read and get and, and not clutter up my inbox. Um, and I started to notice, like, geez, half my, half my email are Substacks. And so I, I went back and looked at What did I open? What did I read? What am I like, ah, it's there 'cause I think one day I'm gonna read it and I never do. And so I culled the herd and got rid of. So I think we're at peak Substack already. But that said, there are lots and lots of different technologies if you wanna send out a monthly or every other week sort of newsletter. The software that's available, the tech that's available makes it really easy and simple to do. It's fairly inexpensive. Just be aware that there's a logistical lift to getting this in place and then doing the work. I think that you'll— you can try a couple of formats and you'll figure out where your natural skill set is, but it's always best— you know, I've jokingly said I write because I have no choice. I just have to get it out of my head or I'm walking around you know, talking to myself, and it's not— that's not a good thing. If, if you find something that organically speaks to you and you, you feel very comfortable with, whatever it is, the odds are that that thing you're going to be much better at and you're going to enjoy more than something that's work, right?

Right. The fact that you gravitate towards it says something in and of itself. Yeah. Break down how being a creator actually on a tangible level can help benefit your firm? So there's the obvious of, oh, there's attention, there's awareness, but drilling down more specifically, how can that benefit? How can it manifest itself?

So I launched the blog— so the Geocities was in the '90s. I launched it on TypePad in July 2003, so we're coming up on 20 years, and I moved it to WordPress with my own domain, ritholtz.com, in October 2008. And I think there is a process when you are seeking to either hire somebody or turn a prospect into a client or otherwise engage with a person who may know you somewhat, a little bit, a lot, and they have other choices. They can go to other employers, they could go to other advisors, maybe they can work with a different partner instead of you if they're a vendor or a service provider or what have you. I suspect, and we have a lot of data as to how people use the various content we create from blogs to videos to audio. I mean, keep in mind, this is very much the inverse of the old Wall Street model, which was become a client and do transaction with us and we'll send you all our research. Our approach has been, we're going to give you a variety of in-depth research, commentary, opinion, thoughts about what is a better way to think about investing or managing your money or the economy or your own behavior. And hey, if 1 or 2% of you want to reach out and become clients, that would be great. If you want to do it yourself, here are some things you should know and you could do it yourself. And that's become become a, you know, a pretty respectable business. The, the assumption that I think so many people get wrong is, I know I'll set up a blog and I'll do some posts and the money will just roll in. And I got bad news for you, that ain't how it works. What, what ends up happening is you're writing about a certain subject or a topic consistently. You're not Listen, you're not the New York Daily News. You don't have the deadline where you have to publish every single day. You write when you have something to say, and if you have nothing to say, don't feel compelled to say something. The obligation to have something poignant to say about non-farm payrolls every month, it's a lot more— I just quoted the former UCLA coach who passed away, years ago, I'm drawing a blank on his name, never mistake activity for achievement. And along the same lines, don't think that just cranking out, just making noise isn't the same as communicating any sort of wisdom or useful knowledge. And so when you're putting this out there and when you're, after a while, you've created a little bit of a reputation for, oh, this person is an expert on this, this segment or whatever. What I found that has done for Ritholtz Wealth Management is when we meet with a prospective client or, or just talk with a prospective client, normally there is a certain duration of time that that prospective client goes through in order to say, I know who these guys are, I understand their philosophy, and I feel comfortable entrusting my capital with them. They're worthy of my trust. So it takes a certain period of time before someone says, okay, I am comfortable, I've reached a degree of comfort with you. I think by revealing who you are, sharing your thoughts, discussing your process, telling about, hey, you know, over my X number of years in the market, I see a lot of people doing this, and here's why that doesn't seem to work for most investors. You should try that. That seems to be more productive. I, I think the single most important thing that does— nobody reads a blog post or listens to a podcast and says, here's $25 million. That, that just doesn't happen. It's a fantasy. However, they could say, I don't need to spend 2 years doing due diligence on these people. I already know who they are. I know what their philosophy is. They seem to be trustworthy. I'm comfortable having this process take 3 months or a month instead of taking years. And like, literally, we have had clients reach out to us, we've had prospective clients reach out to us and say, I've been reading you guys for 10 years. My wife and I are retired. We want to travel. And you know, I'm done doing this myself. "Here, you guys do it." And it's like, what do you mean you've been reading us for 10 years? It's like, you and I exchanged emails in 2009. I spoke to Josh at a conference in 2015. And Michael and I spoke on the phone. Like, oh, okay. You have no idea the people who are consuming your content and how what you do fits into their world. But some percentage of them are going to look into you and say, okay, maybe these guys can be my advisor. Every now and again, something kind of interesting happens where somebody will introduce a third party to us. Either a client refers somebody to become a client, or just a random stranger says, hey, I've been reading you guys and my client is very unhappy with their advisor. I want to introduce them to you. And if they Google you and up comes, uh, here's an intelligent conversation about the Fed, and here's why— hey, you know, don't just jump to the conclusion that 2023 is 2008. Here are the reasons why it's not identical. Hey, maybe this goes south, maybe we enter recession, maybe a few, few more banks fail, but this is a very different thing. And if you can articulately explain that in a way that says Oh, I see how these people think and I like their approach, their data evidence-driven approach to the world. It just makes the process of getting comfortable with who you are. And you'll notice none of this is about this will help you close the sale, this will get you more. It's all about helping the client or prospective client get to a point of comfort where they feel like, I can make a decision here and I don't feel like I'm out on a limb or taking a chance. You're giving them a degree of, all right, I feel pretty comfortable with this. And it's not like, because my last guy, you know, he was recommended, but I wasn't sure and I kind of took a chance and it didn't work out. I'm much more comfortable here.

Right. There's a lot there. And I think most advisors who don't have that presence, it's a little bit to people like a black box. There's a name, there's a headshot, there's a bio. And it's like, well, on paper you look good, but I'm really not comfortable. And I think by dint of what you do, putting your thoughts out there, it's disarming. So the reader or the viewer feels very comfortable, like, again, that sense of they kind of know you, they feel they do because you're showing your thought processes and all of that. And you're really shrinking that gap in terms of discovery and being ready to possibly do business.

But notice how different that is than, I know, let's launch a podcast and the money will roll in.

Right, well, that intent is impure, if you will, and there's also, I think, a dynamic. It's called the rule of reciprocity. So, you know, if you look at what Josh and Michael are doing, they're providing a lot— all your firm's content, frankly, mixes entertainment with substance in a really nice balance. I was gonna say 60/40, but 50— whatever. You get a nice balance, and—

We were told 60/40 is dead, so we had to go 50/50 on that.

There you go. But I think you watch, you listen, and you go, "Huh, I'm getting good value. I'm learning." And then human nature being what it is, people invariably feel predisposed to perhaps give back. And that might manifest itself simply by watching, listening, reading, or, and/or perhaps even investing with you guys or working with you.

And I'm going to— let me expand on that a touch, because if you were to go out to prospective clients and say, 'Look how trustworthy I am. Please give me your money.' That's an immediate red flag. Wait, you're raising the trust question? I, I'll tell you when I find you trustworthy. When, when someone puts out— and I think it's hard to hide— I'm going to say that again— I think it's hard to hide who you are and what you're about when you're sharing so much of yourself. I mean, I guess Bernie Madoff was a psychopath, and if he had a podcast, maybe he could have fooled a lot of people. But you could fool people for a half hour, you could fool people for a couple hours. You can put out hundreds and hundreds of hours. I'm up to 500 on the podcast. I think Michael and Ben are up to 275, something like that. And The Compound of Friends passed 100 already. Like, you can't BS people for 1,000 hours. It just becomes impossible.

Anything else that we haven't touched on that you want to mention about your firm? Anything going on? I know there's a lot of activity.

So we've been growing at a pretty robust level organically, and we're starting to explore the concept of, hey, is there a way that we can engage in perhaps some acquisitions to expand our firm. We are early stage talking with BlackRock about taking over the management of their B2C digital advisor. Our attitude about— I hate the name robo-advisors because they're not robots and they don't provide advice. It's always a terrible name. But one of the things we always looked at with some of the other digital advisors was, this is a digital tool. Doesn't it make more sense to just marry this with a human advisor and allow the account opening, the onboarding, the initial allocation process to be much cheaper, faster, more efficient? And so we end up not having any minimum at our account, at our firm, and the, the so-called robo-advisors that we're using and what we're in the process of, of working out with BlackRock to, to acquire theirs is, hey, we want to marry this to a group of advisors so that you're not calling a call center and getting a random person, but hey, you're going to call Matt, or you're going to call Alex, or you're going to call, uh, Sue, and you're going to get a specific person you're familiar with Just because you don't have $2 million doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to speak to a person. You're probably not gonna— if you're opening an account for $50,000 or $100,000, you probably don't have big capital gains taxes to worry about or generational wealth transfer or trusts and estates, so you shouldn't be paying for the full-service advisory. Marrying an advisor to a digital platform seems to give you the best of both worlds. And that's what we're working out with, uh, with taking over BlackRock's, uh, FutureAdvisor for their B2C, for their, uh, individual investors on that.

Terrific. Well, thank you for sharing all that. That was really useful. Thank you.

My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.

All right. My guest has been Barry Ritholtz. For more advisor-specific podcasts, please check out barons.com/podcast. For The Way Forward, I'm Greg Bartolis.

This podcast was brought to you by Wells Fargo Advisors. Looking for a firm your clients can't outgrow? Wells Fargo Advisors offers financial advisors full balance sheet solutions with wealth planning, investment products, banking, and lending that meet the needs of affluent to ultra-high net worth clients. Build your practice your way and on your schedule with independent and employee model options designed to meet your needs today and tomorrow. Learn more at joinwfadvisors.com.