Beyond the Screens

This podcast is brought to you by Wells Fargo Advisors. Looking for a firm your clients can't outgrow? Wells Fargo Advisors offers financial advisors full balance sheet solutions with wealth planning, investment products, banking, and lending that meet the needs of affluent to ultra-high net worth clients. Build your practice your way and on your schedule with independent and employee model options designed to meet your needs today and tomorrow. Learn more at joinwfadvisors.com.

Hi everyone, this is Sterling Shea from Barron's, and thanks for tuning in for another episode of The Way Forward. The guest in our podcast today is Britton Prigge. Britton is President and Head of Relationship Management for Ballantine, which is an outstanding high-growth independent wealth advisory firm based in Atlanta, Georgia. Ballantine has been perennially ranked on Barron's Top Independent Advisors and RIA Firms list and they've experienced some tremendous growth in the high and ultra-high net category over the course of the last few years. Britton's a CFA charterholder and has been with the firm since 2001. Britton, thanks so much for making time for us today.

Sterling, thanks so much for allowing me to be here. You know, this is one of my favorite things to do.

I know. One of the things that I'm eager to talk about that I know is a passion point for you, while you spend so much of your energy at the firm focused on client service and investment process. I know that you're all deeply passionate about the culture that you've created organizationally within the firm, and I'm eager to dig into that. But to set the stage a little bit, I know that your firm is doing a lot of things right and you're experiencing some referral growth since the onset of the COVID situation. But I wonder if you can tell us, can you open up a little bit? What has the challenge been? What's been the hard part for you and the team?

You know, that's a question a lot of people are asking. And I'll tell you one thing that ends up being the challenge is I think we completely underestimated employees and clients. You know, initially when we went in, if you will, in March and got sent home and everybody didn't really know what was going to happen, you know, I complained to my husband and said, you know, I bet we're only going to have 60% efficiency. And how wrong I was. The entire firm literally worked day and night in mid-March and early April to come together to make sure clients were okay. You know, the commitment that everybody had, I was just blown away at. So, you know, the challenge was fear. The challenge was not understanding, you know, what was going to happen with the virus and our children's well-being and our businesses. And the positive is I think a lot of people really came together like we do sometimes in crisis.

You know, you're passionate planners and everybody's focused at the firm on the clients, but how do you take care of team members in the midst of all that? You know, for a firm, and give us in your answer a little background on the commitment to culture and how that manifests at the firm. It must have been a huge adjustment to think about having that same connectivity, let alone efficiency and productivity, but that just seemed kind of personal. Personal connection that you have with team members when they're scattered all over the place and you're in this kind of impersonal medium of Zoom calls. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Sure. What I don't think we knew how prepared we were. I give us credit, whether we deserve it or not. We, you know, we started this firm and said we're going to have laptops from day one for every employee so that we could work from anywhere. Not really preparing for a pandemic that has happened, but we immediately, you know, kind of got together and everybody had a place that they worked from and we made sure we committed to Teams and making sure that everybody had some sort of connection every single day. And if you recall in April, I mean in March, there was so much fear with regard to markets. So what happened was the relationship managers and the marketing team and the investment people all worked together, literally, and I'm not kidding, day and night because the situation was so fluid. We had to react and what we mainly wanted to do was to communicate to clients. So every person in the firm was involved in that. So I guess I said by design or by luck, we were able to come together as a team, which is how we do things. And I do think culture is incredibly important. You know, I always quote my friend Mark Tvershin saying, you know, the goal is to make sure every person is doing what they're uniquely qualified to do in order to create an environment where motivated people flourish. And let me tell you something, motivated people flourished during that time. I look at that as kind of phase 1 as I look back.

Well, Talk about the flip side of that though. You're coming together as a team, as you said a couple times now, everybody's working day and night to get the systems aligned, to make sure, uh, you're prepared to adapt, uh, to engage clients and help them. Uh, that's unsustainable. And there must have been a moment when you said, hey, we're burning people out. Um, I'm imagining, uh, talk a little bit about that. What did Phase 2 and Phase 3 look like? Uh, if you're going full bore, there that's hard to do for an extended period of time.

Yeah, well, it's funny because I had 30 Zoom call meetings last week and I really thought I wanted to shoot my screen. So yes, we did come out of, out of the crisis mode. One thing that we did was we tried to engage people on a different level. We immediately started having virtual lunches, virtual happy hours, and we realized you can't have a happy hour with 30 people without a plan because it's going to be chaos. So we really kind of I learned how to put together teams of 6 or 7 people from different departments having lunch together and talking about anything other than markets or clients. We talked about, you know, my favorite go-to question was, what's your favorite karaoke song? Which I might have to ask you about, Sterling. That's a good one. So kind of taking a little of that pressure off and trying to get to know people in a different way. Still with Zoom. And it was funny because people, you know, had their backgrounds. And if people would move from their backgrounds, you'd say, where are you going? What'd you do? And I worried about the people who lived alone. But what I found fascinating was that a lot of those people who live alone are introverts, and the introverts continue to thrive. It really is strange. I'm not acting like it was this great end-all be-all, but I do think we kind of made the best of it. And, you know, I'll go later on talking about how people really did appreciate that time where you didn't have to get ready for work. You weren't rushing, you weren't trying to get your lunch made or get there by a certain time. But on the, you know, the reverse, there's a very different reality was in place for, for people who had small children and all of a sudden had to become teachers as well while their Zoom call was going and their kids come in to try to get them to help. And also the people who may not have as big a house or not have the space to have, you know, to be able to feel like they could move around. So, I think we tried to acknowledge that and we really tried to understand every single person's situation. And I guess at Ballantyne, we were lucky because I would say the positives in terms of what we were able to do and what people were able to do from home outweighed the negatives. And again, I'm surprised at it.

Well, you said a couple things there I want to dig into. First is this notion of adjusting to people's individual needs on the team. I know your firm, Britton. You have a culture that everyone's there working hard early in the morning. They're motivated, they're happy, but they're competitive and it's intense. And there are some people for whom you're going to have to adapt to a more flexible work reality. And I wouldn't have called flexibility a likely hallmark of your firm. So, talk about that. What was that adjustment like? How did you really— when did— when and how did it manifest?

Yeah, well, I think one thing is what I said when I was saying I think we had, you know, 100% efficiency, and I mean that. We had people working more hours and productivity was huge. But I remember saying to my husband, you know, when we actually have a life, when we actually have the ability to go out and do what we're supposed to do, whether it's go to a baseball game or go to a PTA meeting this is going to be difficult. So that, that was reality. And you're right, we do work people hard, but it felt like when you have, you know, 12 hours during the day, if you, if you work 9 with nothing else to do and you're able to take lunch and maybe take a walk with your child too, it all worked really, really well. So with regard to flexibility, I am adamant that we must learn from this situation. I am adamant that especially parents with young children, and I'm not just saying women but also men, we have learned that we can do this. Technology allows us to let people have a little bit more flexibility than maybe we had coming up. You know, I realized part of me said, you know, young people need to earn the right. You know, you got to come in. And then I think, why? You know, why? We can allow flexibility and you don't lose with flexibility. And I think that's what we all— and I'm calling myself old school— school. You know, I've been in this business 30 years. Is learn from this and, and, and don't say everything has to be how it always was, whether it's with regard to clothing and what you wear or when you're in the office.

You know, another interesting facet of this is the concern and anxiety people have about, hey, now we're, now we're in this, what are we going to do when we go back? Say there's a vaccine, say that happens and is more readily available sooner than we all anticipate, and the COVID situation drifts to our memory. Are you going to go back to just the way it was before? You know, what is flexibility going to be a part of a new reality? Have, have you talked to your team about when you're going back, how you're going back, and how it might be different?

Uh, yes, yes, and yes. Um, I will say talking to people about coming back, you know, I talked about phases, and I would say around the end of April the second phase started and we realized this was a new normal and we're going to have Zoom calls and we're going to have clients You know, and really we changed the way we're doing things. Team meetings, everything is over Zoom. And then probably about in July, we started feeling a little bit like, wow, you know, not only did we build out 4,000 square feet of space in February through April, we said, what is it going to look like? And I think we realized immediately that we do want to allow flexibility. But I remember Robert Ballantine one day said, do you think people will ever come back? And I said, yes. So, I do believe that there is a new normal. I believe unequivocally that we also need each other as humans. We need to be around each other. I think that being in the office is critical with regard to collaboration and whiteboarding and camaraderie that comes on, you know, Monday morning hearing about the 3-year-old's birthday party, which you really probably don't do as much over Zoom. I also think training and development, is difficult in a remote basis. So seasoned people, it's different. So we are thinking about all that and said, make a recommendation. Managers, make a recommendation. You know your people, you know how they're doing. If you want to stay home 2 days a week, you know, and your work proves that you can, we have no problem with that.

What other processes and parts of your business did the COVID situation illuminate were ripe for change and adaptation? Is there anything that you just said, hey, you know, we were doing it this way and then the COVID and virtual situation happened and we realized maybe we should be doing it a different way anyway? Was there any other process that come to mind?

You know, one thing that came to my mind is how we were just so used to having client meetings and clients come in the office or we go to their office or we go to their home on a, on a certain consistent basis. And what I found is I used to have to have my computer and my paper and everything all together and understand a client. I'll pick up the phone now and just pick up the phone and say, how are you doing? Not have to know exactly what their performance is, but how are you doing? So I think that kind of more casual interaction. I also believe that we ought to think about traveling less. How about a Zoom meeting for talking about certain things, whether it's insurance or estate planning or performance? And then when you get together, let it be personal. That's kind of going through my mind is to maybe change interactions with clients.

The clients have proved to be receptive to virtual meetings, but I would argue the market backdrop, which started with a lot of fear and anxiety, has gotten strangely complacent, you might argue. I think we'll see before the end of the year some more substantial volatility. Is that going to change the dynamic of those client interactions over the, over the Zoom calls if we see kind of sudden and pronounced volatility back in the market?

Well, I think, like you said, you know us, and communication is paramount. We overcommunicate. And like I said, picking up the phone. So, just having that interaction on a consistent basis. You know, I'll tell you something that helped us and that was really important was our commitment to liquidity. You know, we think of cash as an asset class and clients understanding that we had them, we had them covered, you know, and That is what I think allows clients to, or probably allowed clients to understand, wow, they really do, they really do got it. They've got it. And I've had some people call even recently and said, hey, up 25% in market risk, should we take some winnings off? And I say, remember, we've got a model-driven process. And they're like, okay, okay. You know, it's just, I think it's just really that consistent communication, and it doesn't have to be that formal.

And that's part of your, uh, your secret sauce on the high referral generation that I know your firm has achieved. Uh, can you talk a little bit about that?

It has been unbelievable. I will tell you, you know, like I said, phase 1, phase 2, you know, the crisis mode. Phase 3 was— I, I'm shocked. I think we've had 7 new clients in the past 9 weeks, and it's a meeting. And, and, you know, the first time I met, I went to Athens to meet with somebody socially distanced in her house. And that, you know, the level of trust, and I think coming from people hearing how we interact and how we have reacted, especially in crisis mode, has really helped us. It is stunning to me, the new business. And I don't know if people are just realizing, you know, this is what I want.

Where's it coming from? Is it clients who are just dissatisfied or maybe not hearing from their advisor? What are the reasons people are telling you that they're interested to change and find someone new?

Well, I think we have really focused on that entrepreneur in transition. We have really, you know, we've got some core business that's been with us for 30 years that may be inherited wealth, but that entrepreneur, we have really learned how to take care of. And that's who we are, entrepreneurs. So, I think we've really been focusing a lot on if you're selling a business and also Talking when you do sell that business and you might be 50 years old and have $30 million of liquidity and you've never felt wealthy, so you've never done a lot of education of children or estate planning, all that, we're really getting known for being the go-to people. So I think that entrepreneurs and several people are selling, you know, I'll tell you, we've, we've helped 2 people in the past 2 months who had transactions that had started before March that kind of came back in July. So things are happening, money is moving.

You know, that growth though begets the need for more resources and infrastructure. How do you go about finding, attracting, hiring, and then onboarding new talent in an environment like this? I'm sure it's gotta be challenging.

Yeah, as I said, the onboarding, the training and development, we have 2 new people one in our multifamily office and one in our relationship management, relationship manager in Raleigh during COVID One started in July, one started in August. The onboarding and the understanding of the culture is the most difficult because another thing that I didn't talk about is we need to very strongly adhere to policies and understand people's fear. We've got people that say, I do not want to come into the office. And to be okay with that is really important. At 9:30, I have a call with the 2 new people to have a culture orientation.

Can you give us a little view? What does that, what does that look like? What is the Ballantyne culture orientation tour? You know, give us a, give us a couple nuggets.

Well, Sterling, you'll, you'll be happy to know that, that I kind of created this last night. So, you know, I'm very honest about myself. We have We have these behaviors that we have published and everybody gets even before they become an employee that we expect and they go along with our core values. So really understanding our mission, our behaviors, why we do what we do, and then how we work together. One thing I gave these two new guys is a speech I did in 2016 at the annual CFA conference. On culture. And what it really does is focus on kind of how we messed up in the first couple of years and tried to pretend like we had, you know, 12 core values that weren't really us, like work-life balance. So, kind of going through that, going through how, how, what we've learned, why is culture so important, why is it the number one thing in our firm. And, and I'll tell you, it is, it's difficult because you got to be consistent.

For a lot of reasons this year, another aspect of, uh, culture that has forced a lot of really good firms to be very introspective and honest with themselves is the need for making sure that you have a robust approach around diversity and inclusion. Is that important for Ballantyne, and why do you think that it means so much to so many people?

Well, I'll tell you, a lot of people had a lot of issues in COVID, and I don't know how many people realize what the divisive situation with regard to racism in Atlanta and how it's really hit home here. I grew up in Alabama. I am very focused on at-risk young people, and the, the what we went through here that you probably saw on the news was devastating. And, and so really to have one-on-one conversations with people who may not feel like the norm. I have a girl from Nigeria, and I'll never forget, I was probably at 6 o'clock walking, and I called her and I said, how are you doing? And she said, I'm scared to go outside of my house. And I said, what can I do? And she said, you can stand up. And I'll tell you what, I don't know if I sent you this, but Adrian, he's from South Africa, our CEO, Adrian Cronje, probably gave the best the best speech I've ever heard one Thursday morning. We've always gotten— continued to get together on Thursday morning, and it was an impassioned speech about what's going on and how it is not okay. And so I think we took a stand. We also created a diversity and inclusion committee, which I asked to be a part of, and I'm probably the most quiet on. We have 7 people on that, just trying to understand how people think and how they feel, whether it's white or Black or homosexual or, you know, any of that. And I'll tell you, the Zoom calls, the way people have given of themselves on a Zoom call, I'm not sure would happen in a big group, you know. So, so I think it's that, and that, that committee is trying to decide what do we do, you know, how do we, what do we do?

Well, I think you hit the nail on the head in saying it's about commitment. You can have great ideas and great discussions, but if there's no accountability, there's no follow-through, then it won't do very much. So, the vital element of getting buy-in and sustaining it is key. I'm sure that's the case for your firm.

Yeah, it's just, you know, asking people, listening to people. That's one thing I've done on those lunches is ask very pointed questions trying to understand how people feel, whether it's about racism or— it's just, it's really stunning when you sit back instead of just assuming that you know what people think and really, really listening to people. We also did a survey in late July of employees, and this was more about getting back, not back to work, do not say back to work because they've been working, back to the office, trying to get— and what we found is that 90% of our employees felt connected to their team and their manager. And felt supported by the firm. 80% said productivity was neutral or increased. But all of them said, you know, with this new normal, they felt like they, they could dive into work in the morning. They had fewer interruptions. They had decreased stress, you know, with regard to no rushing around. And they, they had that time savings in Atlanta, especially with the commute. Well, New York's the same. But I think that's really important, just listening to people.

Several times in the conversation you've said you've given us the Britton Prigge playbook of calling and just leading with this question, how are you doing? When you're asking that to clients lately, what are they saying? Are they feeling a little better? Are they still anxious? Are they, you know, bored of the situation and eager to get back? What's the consensus of people answering that question of how are you doing?

Most people say I'm fine, but they still want you to give them reasons to be fine. The political environment, the divisiveness there is affecting people. I am stunned at how far different people think about what is going to happen, and we have people all over the spectrum. So I think that's another case where listening and a lot of times data, you know, we try to give out data and say, why are you still overweight? Equally, Why do you have an investment in gold? And that kind of information and data and our ability to communicate the consistency of our non-emotional process, I think, has really, really gone a long way. But I think, I got to tell you, I think this COVID has made everyone think differently. And that's where my big message is, don't waste this opportunity to learn. And, you know, I'm doing it myself. By losing a little bit. You know, the most, most important thing I've heard happens to be from young women is about one woman said the guilt that, that has plagued her, you know, the female guilt, you probably know about that with a child, said the guilt that had plagued her ever since her birth of her first child had waned a little bit during all this. And really the week she came back in some sort of consistent way, that, that piece kind of waned and the guilt kind of came back. And I was like, God, if I can do anything to figure that out, that will be worthwhile for people that come behind me.

Well, that's a noble endeavor. And, you know, illuminates the idea that you really just have to care about your people and dig in deeper. That's really interesting. Britton, we have a few minutes. I have two questions for you left. The first, in Barron style, as you know, I want to ask you for a final piece advice that you would offer for the advisors who are listening in right now based on your experience and wisdom? What's an actionable idea you would, you would share with the group?

Well, let me preface that with one of my favorite things. One of my favorite people to watch is Tony Hsieh, who was the CEO of Zappos, and he said, he said, happy employees equal happy clients. And I kind of disagreed with that, and I said, I think engaged employees equal happy clients. And so my actionable item is don't waste this opportunity to get better. And what I mean by that is list out what you've learned, survey your people, understand what's important to them, and try to be able to provide that along with, you know, obviously we all need to grow, we all need to get better. But I'm telling you, if the employees are happy, the clients are going to be happy.

The final question, and you opened this box, so I'm going to make you jump into it. What's your favorite karaoke song?

Well, I mean, Sterling, you got to know, it's Sweet Home Alabama.

Very, very good. Well, Britton, we've enjoyed talking to you this morning. Thanks for your comments. I thought it was terrific to hear a little insight on how you and the firm are doing in all of this, and I wish you the best of luck moving forward.

I appreciate it. And my Barron's subscription has really helped during this time too.

Well, thank you. And I'd like to also thank all of you for listening in today. We'll be back next week with another newsletter and episode of The Way Forward.

This podcast was brought to you by Wells Fargo Advisors. Looking for a firm your clients can't outgrow? Wells Fargo Advisors offers financial advisors full balance sheet solutions with wealth planning, investment products, banking, and lending that meet the needs of affluent to ultra-high net worth clients. Build your practice your way and on your schedule with independent and employee model options designed to meet your needs today and tomorrow. Learn more at joinwfadvisors.com.