Caroline Gundeck: Leveraging Your Firm’s Resources to Help Clients

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Hello and welcome to Barron's The Way Forward. I'm Greg Bartles, and my special guest today is Caroline Gundek, Managing Director at Morgan Stanley. Caroline, who has devoted a tremendous amount of effort to helping women advance in their careers, will discuss the importance of teams, connection, and building community in the workplace. Welcome to the podcast, Caroline.

Thanks so much. It's great to be here with you.

Excellent. Well, thank you for taking the time. I have a really curio— let me start with one thing. You go to conferences and wake up ridiculously early. Tell me more what you do and why you get up so early. It's fascinating.

Well, you know, we come to these conferences to get to know other people, to get to know your colleagues, the people that are attending the conferences. So during a Behrens conference a couple of years ago, we started a walk in the morning. Now, we used to do it at 5 o'clock in the morning, and then we said, oh, wait a minute, maybe 6 would be better, that we would get more people to attend. And so we did. And we started these walks. And all I just said is, hey, listen, we're going to walk tomorrow morning. Would you like to join us? We started these walks where we would have 5, then we had 10. We've gone to 50 women walking at the conferences in the morning, whether it's through the communities that the conferences are being held on. But it's a great opportunity for us to get to know one another. When you walk with somebody, you're finding out about them, you're finding out about their careers, what— and typically, you're not walking with somebody that you may know. They typically— we walk with other people from other areas of the country, other areas of the firm, and it is a great way to build a very strong network.

And when did this begin?

This began, oh gosh, it's got to be 10 years ago at one of the Barron's conferences. And we decided that, you know, we sit during the day, you know, and listening to all the content, we're deciding what breakouts to attend. And so we took the time in the morning because it was time that we could walk and not be interrupted or not have to leave any of the sessions. And it is something that I think everyone so looks forward to because it gives gives you an opportunity to connect and reconnect and continue the conversations that you have been having throughout the year.

And importantly, it gets you out of the hotel. You get to check out your local vicinity, et cetera. That's great.

Right.

In March 2020, when COVID had brought in-person conferences to a halt, you reached out to several female advisors at Morgan Stanley and, you know, asked, how you doing? A lot of them said, "Eh, could be doing better." Tell me what happened after that.

Well, in March of 2020, when all of us experienced the world shutting down, I reached out to our group of women who walked in the mornings because we had an email group to say, "Hey, we're meeting in the lobby, you know, and let us know if you're going to join us or not, because if you're not joining us, we're not waiting, okay? So we're gonna go." And so we started, and I sent the email to 10 women who were part of of the group of women that walked in the morning. And I said exactly that to them. "How are you doing?" Because at that time, think about it, we didn't know if this was 2 weeks, 2 months, or 4 years. I mean, we had no idea. And so they said, "Well, not great. I don't know. We don't know what we're gonna be experiencing. We don't understand." And I said, "How about if we get together on a call?" I looked at my calendar. I saw Thursday night available. Now, you also have to understand, Greg, that Zoom wasn't a part of our everyday lives. I think I had done one Zoom call in December of 2019. And it was interesting when I did that Zoom call, I said, wow, this is great. Look, there's a snowstorm in New York. Clients got stuck in Florida. We got to do a call with the clients. And they were sitting in their own living room. This is a great concept, not realizing that this is how our lives were going to be. But when we put this together in March of 2020, and of the women that attended, the 10 of the women attended, and all I said to them was, if you know of other women that would like to be part of our call, let's invite them on. And we have been doing that ever since. As a firm, we're over 1,500 women every Thursday night. And the content that we bring to them, and it's, it's changed. You know, we've grown. Initially, it was much more social, and we were speaking to one another and, you know, had an idea or, you know, give some feedback. Now it is— we are focused on business, creating business opportunities, creating connections, helping to form teams, people getting in. These are women all walks of life at Morgan Stanley so that they can be in our risk area, they can be in our legal area, they can be Support professionals, they can be group directors. You just want to have to get to know and build your network and get to know the firm and the resources and the strengths of the firm. These are 1 hour because I once let it go more than 1 hour and at 8:45 my husband was asking me, where's dinner? And I'm like, I don't know, call somebody. So this really has been, we host them 1 hour each week.

And is there a structure or is it kind of improvised where you kind of, the mic's on for everyone or how does it all actually work?

So what typically happens is I will give an update on what's going on at the firm so that we may have, you know, we've got June, which is volunteer month coming up for us at Morgan Stanley. So we will have our head of community affairs come on to speak about events that you can participate in, that you can be involved in. I host a weekly series that I invite our advisors and the field to on a regular basis. So I will update them on the topic and anything else that may be going on at the firm. And I call that witty banter at the beginning just to get everybody, okay, be aware if you didn't see this, this will be coming your way. This is something new and exciting. Pay attention to it. And then we will have a topic. We will have an individual come and whether it's the head of our business, whether it is the head of human resources. We have people that will come on to speak about different platforms at our firm. It just gets the individuals the ability to understand what type of firm, you know, what the strength of our firm and understanding the different resources that are available that they can deliver to their clients. It also helps, you know, non-field employees to understand, wait a second, We do do a lot. There's a lot going on at the firm that I should be aware of. And then once somebody is presented, we open it up for questions, and it can go in any direction, you know, that they choose.

Yeah, I think that's great. Also, it's not just a name and an email, right? It really put a face to the name, comes alive. You make, forge an emotional connection.

And everybody's live. Everybody has their cameras on. I mean, and we have pages, and it's interesting to hear, you know, speakers that they'll come on and they'll be scrolling through 10 pages of individuals that are on there. We have one of our advisors that drives, at that time, her daughters and her daughter's friends to soccer practice. And so she hears us live in the car, and the girls are 9 and 10 years old, and they're like, "I want to be part of Morgan Stanley. I want to understand more about it." So it's It's been really great.

That's excellent, excellent. And how long do the presentations last usually, like 15, 20 minutes or?

Yeah, it would be probably about a half hour depending on who's speaking. Half hour, 40 minutes, and then we open it up for questions.

Excellent. Now for people listening, any tips, dos and don'ts if you were, you know, someone else who's interested in doing something like this, what advice might you have?

Do it. Because we have been able to build a community of women every Thursday night. The women will say it's the highlight of my week because I get on to see I can share ideas. It is a place where they get ideas. It's an opportunity for them to ask questions and feel that they are going to get direction, they're going to get answers. And truly understanding how this— it's really, it's a truly powerful call, 1 hour each week. And look, it's not going to go 2 hours or 3 because, look, we're very respectful of people's time. But we promise you to be a part of it. I would encourage anybody that's interested, and please, Don't hesitate. You can reach out to me. I'm glad to help. The best ideas— and that's why these conferences are so important that we attend, because you get ideas from each other. This isn't— you're not a person that's doing this on your own. The best ideas— I had a mentor years ago that said the best ideas come from everybody else. It's just how you implement them that makes them your own. And so I'm encouraging you, please, you can reach out to me directly. I would be happy to help anyone, but just to start, because what we found What I found was we started it and it grew and it continued to grow. And it will be like-minded individuals that are part of these calls because they want to be. It's your choice. It's not mandatory. It's not— you do, you choose to do. And I've committed to them that I will do these calls until I'm no longer at the firm every Thursday night. Now, we do take off for Thanksgiving. Okay, I know. Okay. And Christmas, you know, the holidays.

Sure. So tell me a little about— Delivering the Firm and that initiative and the timeline after this, when it started, et cetera.

So many of you that may be listening to this podcast know, but if you don't, I am a former financial advisor. I had— I was a director's level advisor at my former firm. And so I understand how important it is to be able to deliver the resources of the firms that you are a part of. And so I was asked to take on a role, right, in January of 2020. How timely to help deliver the resources of Morgan Stanley to our advisors so they can deliver it to their clients. Because so often, and so many of us know that we get comfortable, you know, as an advisor, I'm comfortable in the space that I'm working. What I have seen and what I know from our clients, hearing from them, they expect our advisors to be exceptional investment professionals. What they want is everything else. They want the trusted relationship that our advisors have with them. They want to like and trust the advisor that they work with. Our job in financial services, and our job at the firm is to deliver the resources to our advisors so they continue that relationship. They continue to deepen that relationship with their clients and their potential clients. Clients today are asking us, and because information is available and they're hearing about it, you know, at the conference today, we just talked about this, that clients are asking us about Do you do this? Do you have this capability? And the answer needs to be, yes, let's figure out a solution. We should be able to provide the financial solutions for our clients and whatever financial need they may have.

Yeah, and that's definitely important to know because if someone says, oh, you know, why does my friend's advisor have access to that and you don't? Right. That's not good. And if you don't know, that's not good either. So being aware, and plus it's gonna change over time. So there's another benefit to keeping advisors did.

So, and you mentioned, and you would ask me about the Deliver the Firm series. So we started this at the beginning of January 2020. And initially, we had this great idea that I'm going to go complex by complex, branch by branch, doing hand-to-hand combat, meeting our advisors, hearing about what this, you know, looking at their books of business, giving them ideas. And then of course, March of 2020 happened. I have to say, In a crazy positive way, it was great for us to have to go virtual because I'm reaching advisors that may not have had access, right? They— everyone can dial into a Zoom call. Everyone can listen. And sometimes you may be a sole practitioner with 4 people in a branch that you feel alone. This gave you the opportunity every week, and we continue that call series every week to highlight a strength of Morgan Stanley to our advisors. And so it gives you a community that you're part of, a network that you're part of, and you're getting ideas on a regular basis, on a weekly basis. These are 1-hour sessions that we host to bring the strength of the firm. We also do boot camps because I figure I have to figure out working out somehow. So I like to call them boot camps where we do a deeper dive into a topic or a platform or an idea. And we have the senior people from the the area of, you know, the platform or the topic or head of our global investment office. And they will come on and speak about this is what you should be speaking to your clients about today. This is the conversation. This is what's new that you should be, you know, delivering to your clients and potential clients.

Are there any themes that are resonating more recently or demands from clients that you're hearing and seeing?

You know, that's a great question because, It's interesting, our clients and what I've seen, and I was just on a call yesterday with a client, he, the relationships that each of you, the advisors have with your clients is the most important. And understanding and deepening those relationships is key. This is a relationship business. Don't mistake it. It's all about understanding the individual, understanding their family, understanding their needs. What are their hot points? What is important to them? Inevitably, what I have heard from clients is, you take care of the investments to the advisors because that's what your job is. Now I need help. I need estate planning. I need financial planning. I need life insurance. You're eliminating risk in my portfolios. What about my life? What about You know, any of these alternative investments, what are other clients doing like me that I should be taking a look at? And that's where they trust in their advisors and the relationship to be able to deliver those resources to clients.

Yeah. And I think the trust is arguably the one thing that you can't just buy off the shelf, right? It's earned. It's not a product. It's not software. It's not A lot of these problems, you can just hire people and you checked off that box. So I definitely think that is really fundamental. The rest is arguably table stakes, and then other advisors do it better or not. There's such a theme here of interdependence and sharing information and just being on the same page and connecting. And part of that, of course, might be because you're with an enormous firm, but there still is that interdependence. There is the rise of teams that's in the, in the industry. So tell me more about the importance of community, etc.

The importance, I think, also of teams is very important because our clients, and this is what we hear and see from them, they, they want a point person. They want you as their advisor, but they want to know that you've got the resources to be able to provide whatever the client is asking you for or whatever their financial need is. They don't expect you to be the expert. In that area, but they expect you to find the person who is the expert. You know, even if you are a sole practitioner, you have to create for the client's experience a virtual team. This is in my opinion, because this is what I've heard from the clients. Again, they don't expect you to be the expert, but they need you to be able to go get the person to speak to them about banking and lending or, you know, insurance or whatever they're asking you about. I think when we take a look, they all They also look, and what I've heard loud and clear from many of the clients is, I want to look at a team and understand that they're going to understand me and my needs, but also my children and my grandchildren. One of the most requested things that we've heard from clients is education. How are you educating my children and my grandchildren and my great-grandchildren on leaving a legacy and understanding how they're going to be good stewards of what I've been able to create and the assets that I've been able to create. It's been a great need of our clients to focus on the next gen and encouraging as you're looking at putting together a team or having a team, having diversity, diversity of individuals, diversity of age, so that everyone that comes to speak says, I can relate to that person. I understand what you're talking about. Wow, that's a great idea. You've got your point person that you should be speaking to on my team that can help.

And then on the educating point, how does that actually happen? I mean, how does it manifest in more detail?

So we do, we have a team, family governance and education as part of our family office resources capabilities. And we have an educator that is part of that team that creates curriculum for our advisors. She can deliver it to clients. She also created the curriculum to deliver to the advisors so they can deliver it directly to clients. And we are also in the process of hosting a monthly next-generation education for clients, children, grandchildren, also prospects, children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren.

Is that a webinar or what is that?

It is a webinar. And I was very— I have to be honest, Greg, I was very surprised at the reaction and the engagement that we received by hosting these sessions because we heard from our advisors, what do we have to be able to educate children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren? And when we decided to do a client event, and we are now doing it first Monday of every month, it's on their calendars, they are all recorded, they can come in and take a look and have their children. And what has happened, which we were very surprised about, the clients host their children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren at their homes as part of the call. We've had a record number of engagements and registrations for these sessions. So it's something that is definitely of interest. But it also helps for our advisors, they build that next generation of relationship and trust, which is key, because you want to be— and everyone who is part of, you know, listening to this call, you want to be seen as the family advisor, not my parents' advisor. Because at that point, when the parents are gone, those relationships leave. And you have worked too hard and too long to build these relationships that you need to have it for the next generation and the next and the next.

Yeah, and to the extent you can bring everyone together into those meetings at once, you're really not using that much extra time, but you're bringing more people in. When you're speaking to the next gen, Are the messengers often similar in age or profile to make it more relatable or not really? Do you like to tweak who the messenger is?

We do.

We do.

And so we've— and we have different topics. So when you kick— we kicked it off, we usually have the person who is running the business be a part of it and being able to deliver a message, you know, or the content. We will always have the ability for our attendees to ask questions so that they've, you know, and I am the one that hosts each one of these sessions so that I can incorporate those questions as we're having our head of cybersecurity speak about what cyber is, what they should be paying attention to, how, you know, to make sure that you've got the right passwords or, you know, not written down on the back of a notebook. I might do. I mean, I don't, I don't, I didn't do that.

Someone asking for a friend.

Yes. Asking for a friend.

There you go. And what— any other interesting things emerging from these? Any topics or, you know, lately in terms of what you're hearing people want or what— anything notable? I mean, are a lot of these younger people interested or kind of like dragged there reluctantly, or is it all over the place?

Well, it's— it's what's interesting is they are interested. Our first session that we did was investing. It was investing money in savings and financial planning. So during our sessions, we make them interactive so that there are questions that will pop up and they can answer them. I am— I have to say, I love to watch the engagement because I'm also learning about the audience to say, how many of you do have a financial plan? How many of you think about that? You know, how many of you are business owners or thinking about creating a business? It gives us an opportunity to get to know the audience. This week, this month was on cash and debt management, talking about that because so often When, you know, younger clients, children of clients, they'll go to college or to school, all of a sudden credit cards being thrown at them. They don't understand what really has happened. Do I— when do I have to pay these back? How does this affect your credit? You know, so we talked about that and the importance of understanding that and then talking about capabilities, you know, in our banking space, because that's an area that so many of them want to be involved. Next month it will be cybersecurity and then we are going to do an event on, you know, stocks, bonds, you know, and understanding investing one-on-one. So we're keeping it. And by— I can tell the interest in the engagement by the amount of questions that we receive. It has been remarkable. And so we know that there has been a tremendous amount of interest in understanding. I heard from one of our clients. I had seen her last week and she came to me and said, said, my 3 kids attended the first session and loved it. And so they can't wait for the next one. And I said, that's all I want to hear. That's great.

Exactly. That's terrific. That's terrific. Any other comments? We're unfortunately running out of time. So I just want to know if there are any other big things we haven't touched on yet.

I'm thinking, and for everyone that is listening to this podcast, I'm going to encourage you as you are thinking about your clients and deepening relationships with clients. Two things I'm going to highlight. You've got access at your own firms and with our asset managers. Make sure to reach out to them. Each one of them has content, has information that you can provide to connect with your clients, to get them interested in a topic, in an area. They are great partners of ours, and I'm going to encourage you, look at your own firm and then please reach out to our asset partners because they have been great partners of ours and to deliver content. The second thing that I am going to encourage everybody to do is as you attend a conference, a summit, um, in your own offices, reach out and network with other individuals and get ideas from them. What's working for them? What's working for you? And sharing those ideas because that's how you'll grow your practice. And will continue to grow your practice. Not to mention, you may be looking for a team member in your own area, in your own office. It may come very naturally from somebody that you began a conversation with 2 weeks ago, 2 months ago, or 2 years ago. So I'm encouraging you, you're in the best business in the industry. Please understand that the resources that you deliver and the job that you do for our clients Every day is so important, and it is a relationship business. Continue to build on the relationships and those trusted relationships you have with your clients and your potential clients.

Great way to wrap it up. Thanks so much.

Thank you.

My guest has been Carolyn Gundek. For more podcasts and the latest wealth management news, visit barons.com/advisor. For The Way Forward, I'm Greg Bartolus.

This podcast was brought to you by Wells Fargo Advisors. Looking for a firm your clients can't outgrow? Wells Fargo Advisors offers financial advisors full balance sheet solutions with wealth planning, investment products, banking, and lending that meet the needs of affluent to ultra-high net worth clients. Build your practice your way and on your schedule with independent and employee model options designed to meet your needs today and tomorrow. Learn more at joinwfadvisors.com.