Chloe Moore and Tracy Hutton: Talent Pipeline Secrets

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How can you design a summer internship program that injects talent and vitality into your company right now while also building a robust pipeline of future great team members? Hi everyone, I'm business coach Steve Sandusky for Barron's Advisor, The Way Forward Podcast. My two guests today are Chloe Moore, a CFP and co-founder of BLX, and Tracy Hutton, a CPA who is a senior talent manager at Mariner Wealth Advisors. In today's conversation, we discuss how BLX is finding and preparing aspiring Black and Latinx financial planners for internship roles and how Mariner Wealth Advisors structures its intern program to foster the next generation of financial advisors. Their stories highlight the importance of creating opportunities that not only enrich your firm and the industry, but also ensure it mirrors the diverse fabric of our society. With that, here's my conversation with Chloe Moore and Tracy Hutton. Chloe, let's start with you. I'd love for you to give me some background here on BLX and what that is and why you felt the need to actually create the organization.

Sure. So BLX stands for Black Nicks Internship. Program. And so essentially what we do is we try to provide a talent pipeline for firms that are looking to hire diverse talent, uh, while also providing opportunities and, and support for aspiring Black and Latinx financial planners. It was started by 4 co-founders who are all fee-only financial planners, and we all come from different diverse backgrounds and really wanted to, to do our part in helping to increase the diversity in our industry. We saw with certified financial planners, that less than 5% of certified financial planners are Black or Latinx. So we wanted to make sure that we can do something actionable to really help those numbers increase over time. We started in 2020, and so we had our first cohort of summer interns in the summer of 2021.

So how does a cohort work? Tell me a little bit about that.

Yeah, so we have an application process. So every fall, uh, we basically open up applications to aspiring Black and Latinx financial planners, whether they're college students or grad students or career changers. And then we also have applications for financial planning firms. So we take those applications throughout the fall through the end of the year. And then we have a formal matching process. We've partnered with a recruiting firm to help vet, like, all of the interns, vet all of the firms, and really make a thoughtful matching process. To present each firm with candidates that would be a great fit for their firm. And so through that process, we're able to match interns with firms and start summer internships.

Well, that's a nice segue to you, Tracy, because you're on the receiving end of the great interns that Chloe's firm is helping create here. So tell me about what you're doing at your firm and how did you get involved with BLX?

I'm part of our recruiting team at Mariner, and we've had an internship program aimed at trying to get, you know, students introduced into the financial planning industry. And then over time, you know, we really start building it more to use as a pipeline to support the future growth of our firm. And so while we've been really intentional about trying to, you know, increase the diversity of our intern pool by doing things like recruiting at HBCUs and things like that, we just really weren't making the impact that we wanted to make. And so that's where a partnership with BLX is huge because a lot of times we're talking to students that never had heard of us before. They were introduced to us through BLX. And so it just, it's allowed us to kind of work with and talk to a pool of students that we just weren't even seeing before.

I'd love for you to share some details on how do you structure the program?

Most of our interns we target to do a summer internship. And so they typically start right at the beginning of June. We do a 1-week virtual training program called our Discover Mariner program where we bring all of our interns together virtually and we do training on our firm and all of our tools that we have available to service clients. And we also do some training on some of the tools they're going to be using in their internship, and then they spend the rest of their internship. So about the other 8 to 9 weeks working with a local office on an advisor's team. We ask that they kind of do two main things during their time with that team. One, that they get to do work that a brand new client service associate would do. So, you know, let's say we're bringing on a new client, kind of getting to see what the onboarding process looks like and, and helping with that, as well as getting exposure to what's a day in the life of an advisor. So, sending in on client meetings or client calls, helping to edit the financial plans, work in eMoney. That's kind of how we design it. It is a paid internship. Ideally, we like our interns to intern where they, where they want to be full-time. So we try to have them intern in that location. And if they need housing, we do have a housing allowance as part of that process. We do kind of our diligence to make sure it's like a place that they want to be, not just where they could be for the summer, kind of temporarily. And then we just pay based on kind of that cost of labor, you know, cost of the talent in that market. So it does vary a little bit, obviously, you know, LA versus Kansas City, the comp is going to be a little different there.

Can you give a rough percentage of— you have 100 interns that go through the program, what percent of them actually get extended an offer to come work full-time, and of those that get extended an offer to work full-time, roughly what percent of them actually accept that offer?

I'd say typically it's over half of our interns, uh, get full-time offers. Occasionally we do have interns that don't accept our offers, and it could be for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they may decide it's just not a career path they want to pursue. They may decide to go somewhere we don't have a location. So sometimes there's mismatches, but I'd say the majority that receive an offer accept our offer.

And Chloe, as you think about trying to identify and find folks that would like to be part of your program that apply, how do you really develop that pool of talent to get them to apply? And then how do you help ensure that they're prepared when they're ready to have a conversation with someone like Tracy or one of her team members?

Yeah. So as far as identifying talent out there, that's something that we've really worked hard to do. A lot of times there's a mismatch between firms that say they can't find the talent, and then we talk to, you know, career changers and students all the time who have a hard time finding a position. So we really wanted to close that gap. So over the years, we've established relationships with different universities across the country, including HBCUs and HSIs, which are Hispanic Serving Institutions. And we also collaborate with a lot of organizations that are doing similar work to support DEI. We kind of cross-collaborate there, you know, companies like Diversitas or FAIR, to really help spread the word for people who are looking to get into the industry. We work with the CFP Board as well, so we participate in their diversity summit, also their diversity career fair every year. Some of the colleges have career fairs that we participate in, and we also As co-founders, we often speak at universities throughout the year and attend different conferences that have student programs. So Schwab, for example, is one of our largest partnerships for their Schwab Impact Conference. Every year they have a cohort of students who come in from universities across the country. So we love to participate in that conference and they have a career fair at their conference as well. And then also co-founders are members of different industry networks. Such as NAPFA, FPA, XY Planning Network. So through all those different avenues, we're able to find a lot of great talent. And then as far as helping the interns prepare for the internship, we have a lot of different offerings. So one is that we host monthly office hours with the co-founders, and that's the first Friday of each month at 3 p.m. Eastern. And that's open to anyone who's looking to get into the industry, people who are, maybe early in their careers who have questions about our program or just about, you know, Career Invites in general. We have a series of all webinars that focus on career development, webinars about things like resume writing, cover letters, interview preparation, communication skills, career paths. Those are all, all open to anyone as well. When we have interns that apply, those applicants receive one-on-one coaching. To help them prepare for interviews with firms. So if they need help getting prepared for any of their interviews that they have, we can provide that through our resource advisor, Business Solutions, who helps us with the matching process. We host intern orientations for the interns who are matched right before the summer starts to help prepare them for the summer. And then during the summer, we also have a lot of learning opportunities such as eMoney certification and BestNet Institute on campus and a lot of different speakers in our industry that come and talk about what they do.

It sounds terrific, but all that costs money. So like, where does the money come from to support all the great things that you're doing there?

We're a nonprofit organization. We're funded by 3 major sources. One is corporate partnerships. And so we have corporate sponsors who help fund our initiatives. We also have firms that participate in the program. There's a cost to participate. So that covers a lot of the, the work that we do in the recruiting process and in the matching process. Uh, and then we also take individual donations.

And Tracy, on your end, as a person who hires interns, how do you go about evaluating interns? Not just folks that might come from BLX, but just in general, what are you looking for when you want to hire an intern?

A financial planning major is definitely always something that's attractive, but it's, it's definitely not the only major. We're open to a wide variety of majors. And I'd say it's more, we're really looking for an interest or like a passion for financial planning. Like I wanted them to be able to answer why are they interested in financial planning, right? And then beyond that, we really focus on more of the fundamental behaviors, right? They don't have to have any experience, but more of like, you know, communication, 'cause that's gonna be key to interacting with their team, interacting with clients, attention to detail. Like that's an important piece that helps them to make sure that we get the client forms right.

And I want to ask you both this question. I'll start with you, Tracy. Everyone talks about how it's hard to find great talent, and it's hard to keep great talent too. So Tracy, are you finding it difficult to meet the numbers that you're looking for in terms of finding high-quality interns, or has it been rather easy here in recent years?

In some of our markets where we have a good, like, brand, people know who we are, that tends to be easier. Um, in some of our other markets, it's I remember going to career fair and they're like, do you sail? Like, what, mariner? Is that sailboats? Like, what is this? So I think that does vary. Definitely as we've become larger, I think it's become easier. But going back to kind of our other goals, you know, where we want to find diversity, whether that's from, you know, a background or experience or skill set, I think that's where it becomes more challenging is trying to broaden that pool.

And that, of course, is where Chloe's firm comes into play. So Chloe, on your end, how about you in terms of how difficult is it for you to find folks that are a good fit for your program?

Yeah, I feel like over the years, just as we've honed in on our process for recruiting, we really have built like a great pipeline. This year, for example, we had the largest number of applicants. We had over 300 applicants that applied to be part of the program. Our biggest issue right now is finding firms that want to hire the talent. So we have a huge mismatch between the talent that we're bringing in and the place that— where we're able to place that talent because we don't have enough firms that want to participate in the program.

And of, say, the 300+ applicants that you have, do you end up taking all of them or do you have a screening process where maybe 25% of them aren't necessarily going to fit what you're looking for here?

Yeah, so we do have a screening program. So out of all the applicants, We'll weed off between 30 and 50%, uh, depending on, you know, how, how qualified they are. Um, we've actually had a great qualified class this time, so we didn't have as many people to weed out. But yeah, we do have that process to determine who's a good fit for the program. And just to give you a little bit about the requirements, if that's helpful, we do ask for rising college juniors or seniors. Grad students and career changers are also eligible. If you are a college student, you have to have a GPA of 3.0 or higher. We do have a preference, you know, just as Tracy mentioned, for degrees in financial planning or complementary areas such as, you know, finance, economics, business, anything kind of complementary, accounting. And then we also encourage applicants, particularly career changers, if they don't have any relevant experience, to demonstrate an interest in the profession. So a lot of our career changers have completed the externship program or they've started studying for designations or, you know, starting to go to school, things like that. To show that they have a real interest.

Now, you mentioned that you have more candidates here in your program than you've got firms on the other end that can actually receive these folks. So I can understand someone like a Mariner— and Tracy, roughly how many interns a year are you hiring in total?

I'd say between 50 and 60.

Okay, so that, that's a huge number. I mean, there's not a lot of firms out there that have 50 to 60 employees, period, let alone 50 to 60 interns in a summer. So, so obviously We know big, big firm at Mariner. So certainly it makes sense to work with someone like BLX that can really help that and help find a lot of great diverse candidates as well. So Chloe, on your end, what's happening in terms of not being able to find enough firms out there that want to receive the folks that you're working with?

Yeah, I think it's a combination of factors. You know, one is just our reach, uh, as much as we try to get ourselves out there and through collaborating with organizations or attending conferences, speaking at conferences. Trying to build an online presence, you know, there's still a lot of people who haven't heard about us. So it's helpful to do things like this and get the word out that we exist and that there are firms out there that, you know, if they want to hire, they can use us as a resource. I also think sometimes, especially with larger firms, maybe they have, you know, internal employees who want to, or an internal team that wants to work on recruiting. And so they may want to, you know, or try those efforts on their own. But it's really good to be able to leverage an organization like BLX helping to build that talent pipeline so your firm doesn't have to. And you can really just come to us and get, you know, vetted candidates and receive people who are a good fit for your firm based on whatever your needs are.

And Chloe, I think you mentioned that firms that want to participate in your program, they actually have to pay a fee. So someone like a Mariner would pay a fee to BLX to be part of the program. Is that correct?

Yes. So depending on the firm size, we charge different fees. So we have, we have solo and smaller firms that want to hire interns all the way up to firms the size of Mariner that want to hire multiple interns in a summer. So it just depends on the size of your firm, but our fees range from $1,500 on the low end to $10,000 plus for larger firms that maybe want to hire, you know, 5 or 10 different interns for the summer.

And is that fee dependent on how many people they want to hire, or is it just based on the size of the firm or some combination?

Yeah, it's some combination of the two, so the size of the firm and the number of interns they want to hire.

What advice do you have for the advisor, the advisory firm that wants to start an internship program and bring their first intern on board? So what thoughts do you have on that, Chloe?

Yeah, I'd say the first thing is just really have an open mind. When you think of, you know, an intern and the job of an intern, it's really to gain exposure. Into our industry to see if financial planning is something that they're interested in pursuing as a career. And so, you know, you as a firm, it's good for you to really provide like a good overall experience. You know, Tracy mentioned some of the things, making sure that they have exposure to, you know, the day-to-day tasks that a financial planner would do, or some of the software or some of the things that they would experience as a new hire. So really just opening up to making sure that you give them a good experience. And also that you have someone that is hungry, hungry to learn and eager to learn more about the industry. The more restrictions that you place on an intern, the harder it is to find someone. So if you're wanting someone that's interested in a specific area of expertise or, you know, that have certain qualifications, that really closes your pool of candidates. Also, if you have someone who needs to be in person versus virtually, you know, in some cases like that, might close up your pool of candidates that's available to you.

Well, and I'm glad you brought that up. And maybe you said this earlier on, are you only bringing interns who want to do financial planning or investment type work versus you would also bring on someone who wants to do marketing but wants to do financial services marketing as an example?

Yeah, we're primarily focused on financial planning and investment management as, as the careers that they're pursuing. We've definitely had people, you know, learn about operations or marketing or fintech and go off into those different areas once they gained exposure.

I would say same. Mostly we're targeting financial planning interns and tax would be our other area that we target for internships. Those two areas are our primary ones. We do occasionally have operations or some of the other interns too, but I'd say financial planning and tax are really the bulk of what we focus on. And then just going back to that advice, just to piggyback on advice for advisors, one of the things Chloe didn't highlight is that they actually host training for firms. So if you're a firm who's never had an intern before, they do host training for both small and large firms that kind of just helps to maybe give you some— the basics to help you kind of get started. But I think sometimes people feel hesitant because it's like, it seems like a daunting task, but A lot of it's just engaging your intern in what you do day to day. So it's just getting them engaged into that process. Yes, you do need to be intentional about it, but it's not like you have to create some big program that you aren't doing today. It's just being intentional about including them in, in the day to day. I think that if you think about it from that perspective, hopefully it feels less daunting.

I love questions and I'll ask each of you this. What are 1 or 2 great questions that a candidate has asked you? And then also, what are 1 or 2 great questions that as an interviewer that you want to ask candidates?

When interviewees are asking interviewers questions, the ones that, you know, you can really tell they're, they're trying to get to know the firm, the culture, kind of what the job would be like are always the best. So trying to understand, you know, what made you choose Mariner? What do you like about Mariner? What's your favorite part about working with clients? Those types of questions, I think, you know, where they genuinely are trying to kind of really learn about the job and about the firm, I think are always best when they're things that, you know, they actually want to know about versus just asking a question because they feel like they need to.

I'd say if you're an intern looking for a position or even just looking for a full-time position, do your research if you're going to interview for a firm. Make sure that you review their website, take a look at their philosophy about the people who work there, what's important to them, who, you know, what types of clients do they work with and why. Asking questions like to clarify those things and learn more about, about the firm and why they do what they do is very important.

What advice would you have for an advisory firm leader who's thinking about bringing on an intern or 2 or 3 or 10 or 50, as in your case, in terms of knowing going into it that a decent percentage of these folks, either A, we're not going to make a full-time offer to, or B, if we do make a full-time offer, they may not accept it, or C, we do make an offer, they do accept it, but they don't stay around for a real long time. So as I think about that, yeah, there's, there could be some inefficiency with that, or there could be frustration with that, but I think there also could be a positive in the sense that I'm meeting a lot of really interesting young people who probably have a lot of interesting ideas and experiences and a new level of energy that they might be able to bring to my firm. Even if they're only here for a summer, or even if they're only here for a year or two, my firm hopefully will be better off for having them have been part of that than not having been part of that. Do you think in those terms as well, or do you have other reasons why it's still helpful to have an internship program, even for those reasons I just outlined where it— they may not stick long term?

With all those factors in mind, I do think that the internship still is a huge value because essentially you get to, just like you said, you get to work with new talent and it's kind of like an interview on both sides, right? Like that firm gets to kind of see how they will actually be in the workplace. And same thing for the student, the intern, they get to see what it's really like, what the culture is like, what a day in the life looks like. So I do think there's still huge value in doing it, even if you're not going to convert everybody.

I think, you know, this is one of the opportunities that would be great to plug in career changers. You know, a lot of times they do have a lot more life experience and maturity and maybe a little bit better at kind of vetting a place that would be a good long-term fit versus someone who's right out of college and just you know, kind of eager and hungry to learn and, and really want to gain experience wherever they can. So yeah, there could be a little bit more of a thoughtful fit if you're a company that's pursuing a career changer versus someone right out of school.

I'd love to hear a success story. So can you share an example of someone who started with you, Chloe, went through your program and just got hired full-time and it's turned out to be just a wonderful experience for them and for the firm that they're working for?

Similar to Tracy, about half of our interns are hired for full-time or part-time positions at the end of the internship period. We have several interns that are working now full-time at firms, have been there for, you know, going on a few years now. We have one in particular that's just recently promoted at her firm to a more senior-level advisor. So we have countless, you know, stories with interns that have really had a great experience and are still working at their firms, even ones that left that firm that they've interned for that maybe, you it wasn't a good fit for them. They found homes at other financial planning firms, so they're still in the industry, which is great.

I know a lot of our up-and-coming advisors have come through our internship program, so that's great to be able to see that, you know, the internship program is successful.

Chloe, I think you have a podcast, uh, through BLX. I'd love to hear a little bit more about what you're doing with the podcast.

Yeah, we have a podcast called Diversity in Action. We hear all the time about diversity and the benefits of diversity. And so we wanted to focus more on actionable solutions and people who are doing great things out there to really help promote diversity within their firms or, you know, organizations or just individuals that are doing work to help move the needle forward. It's basically a limited series that we do and we launch it every fall in September and it goes for about 10 or 12 episodes each season.

I want each of you to put your consulting hat on for just a moment. So both of you are highly experienced professionals here. So let's pretend that you are giving advice to another advisory firm that really wants to uplevel their people function, their ability to attract and retain high-caliber talent, to create an amazing organizational environment and culture that really attracts people and keeps people and drives great performance. So with that sort of a setup, what would you say are some of the key things that advisory firm leaders should be thinking about as it relates to those particular areas?

One is just leverage the resources that are out there. There's a lot of organizations, BLX included, but other organizations outside of BLX that are doing great work. So, you know, see what resources are out there to help you find talent and help develop that talent.

Kind of piggybacking on that, we've really been trying to be intentional as we bring interns on about setting those people up for success and getting them, you know, integrated into your culture. So for instance, with our internship program, we have a peer mentor for each of our interns, but thinking about how you can from the beginning How can you get someone feeling like they're part of your organization, I think is important. So kind of beyond the hiring process, how can you successfully get them integrated into your firm? And that's multiple pieces, like obviously the training and access to who do they ask questions to. Those are all important pieces to helping them be set up for success. But then beyond that, I think just, you know, getting them introduced to other people so they feel like they, you know, have a team. Is really important too.

Yeah, one thing that Tracy mentioned earlier that I thought was really important is focusing on, you know, skills that, that are intangible. A lot of times I think when firms are hiring, they're looking for people who have specific technical skills or expertise, um, and those are things that in my opinion are easier to teach. Um, you know, I can teach you all the— all about financial planning, all about how to create a financial plan, or are all the different aspects that you need to learn on a technical side, but it's harder to find someone with that, you know, work ethic and, and just really the, the hunger and the, you know, the craving of the knowledge and, and really wanting to have an impact, uh, in our industry and, and the ability to help people and have those personal skills. So, so some of those things are, I'd say, things that firms should probably focus on more and a little bit less on the technical side.

Well, I'm glad you brought that up, Chloe, because we talk so much in this industry about how it's the soft skills really that are so critical here. And we'll always say, well, it's the soft skills that are actually the hard skills. So as each of you put your futuristic hats on here and you see how the industry is evolving, we see what's happening with technology and AI and, and life planning and all those things. What do you envision are going to be the key attributes or EQ or skill sets or some combination that advisors will need to have in order to thrive in the future, regardless of what unfolds in the future?

Yeah, I think focusing a lot on the human side of financial advice. I know, you know, Steve, you've done a lot of work in that area and You know, so many great people in our industry focusing on behavioral finance and really helping people, you know, around their decision-making and connecting their past experiences with how they manage their money today. So those things are super important with helping clients and giving financial advice. You know, you can't like use AI for those things.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the number one thing. And then I would say to just add to that, you know, Chloe keeps mentioning that kind of that eager learner, someone who, you know, is just constantly wanting to learn. I think that's huge too, because technology is not going away. We're going to continue to see that being integrated. So you're going to have that people piece, but you're going to have the technology piece too. And so I do think someone who, who loves the learning piece is going to keep adapting kind of our approach and how we can be more efficient, but also still people-focused is going to be really important too.

Tracy, let's start with you. What would be the best way for folks to connect with you if they want to learn more about what Mariner's doing and have a conversation there?

Yeah, certainly you can reach out to me on LinkedIn. So you can go to Mariner Wealth Advisors on our LinkedIn page, follow me, Tracy Hutton, or you can just email me directly. So that's Tracy.Hutton@marinerwealth.com.

And the best way to contact us is our website, it's blxinternship.org. We're also on LinkedIn and Twitter at BLX Internship.

All right, that's all for today. Make sure you like and share this podcast through your favorite social platforms. And for more great podcasts, visit us at barons.com/podcast. Take care and be safe.

This podcast was brought to you by Wells Fargo Advisors. Looking for a firm your clients can't outgrow? Wells Fargo Advisors offers financial advisors full balance sheet solutions with wealth planning, investment products, banking, and lending that meet the needs of affluent to ultra-high net worth clients. Build your practice your way and on your schedule with independent and employee model options designed to meet your needs today and tomorrow. Learn more at joinwfadvisors.com.