Dynasty’s Casey McKeon: How to Bring More Women Into Wealth Management

This podcast is brought to you by Wells Fargo Advisors. Looking for a firm your clients can't outgrow? Wells Fargo Advisors offers financial advisors full balance sheet solutions with wealth planning, investment products, banking, and lending that meet the needs of affluent to ultra-high net worth clients. Build your practice your way and on your schedule with independent and employee model options designed to meet your needs today and tomorrow. Learn more at joinwfadvisors.com.

Hello and welcome to Barron's The Way Forward. I'm Greg Bartolis, and my guest today is Casey McKeon, who joined Dynasty Financial Partners in 2020 and currently serves as the Vice President of Relationship Management within the Dynasty Enterprise Group. Today we're going to discuss the gender gap among financial advisors and look at new ways to address that. Welcome, Casey.

Thank you, Greg. Excited to be here.

You work with some of the, you know, wealth management industry's largest and most sophisticated teams. Helping them optimize operational efficiencies, maximize growth, and boost margins. Tell me a little about your job, and then tell me some of your thoughts about the gender gap and what can be done about that.

Sure. So I like to think of myself as an extension of the firms that I cover. We do call them firms and not teams because they are independent businesses. And it's really my job to help the CEO navigate how to grow not only sustainably but scalably over time in order to get the full valuation and enhancements of independence. So that's really what I focus on. And getting into that CEO mindset and helping with that has been one of the most interesting roles in my career thus far.

And tell me a bit about your thoughts about the gender gap, because you definitely have some strong, firm opinions.

Yeah, so I entered financial services in 2014, so it's been about 8 years, a little over 8 years, and back then they were making a strong push towards getting more women into the industry because at the time, you know, it was 15 to 20%, and 8 years later it's still the same, and I've definitely taken notice of Some of the challenges that we have in fixing that, and I do believe that the independent space is uniquely positioned to solve for that because it's been solved for with attorneys. It's been solved for in accounting. It's been solved for in the medical field. There's no reason why it shouldn't be solved for in financial services and wealth management specifically.

And why is that? I mean, that's a bit of an indictment of the industry.

I mean, how much time do we have? To simplify it, I think it's two things. One is it's not really an attractive industry for women to go into. It's not something that's first thought of for women. I think when women are in the industry, they can all relate to walking into an office, being greeted by a female receptionist, walking a little bit further, and then you're seeing a cube or cubes of women CSAs, and surrounding them are these nice offices with men in them in leather chairs and mahogany desks, and they have their little putting greens and their statues of bulls and bears, and they're wearing a Patagonia vest. And it's, it's just not what the world looks like today. I mean, we're competing with firms in technology and social media. I mean, I have friends who are influencers who are making $250,000 a year and you know, going on vacation. And, you know, you used to enter financial services because it was stable and, you know, money-wise it was great. And, you know, it has to go beyond that for women in order to get more women into the industry. It has to be more welcoming. So, that's one part of it. The second part of it is really women need to have a bigger vision for their career. I think when women do get into this industry, they play it safe. You know, I'm going to go with the salaried position and I'm comfortable with this and this is what I know that I can do this role. And there really isn't a lot of upward mobility from that. And why I think the independent space has more optionality is when you go to the large broker-dealers, you really have two options. You become an advisor or you stay in a support staff role. Granted, they've done a better job of creating team roles, but again, that's only available to the highest-producing advisors that are willing to pay for those roles. Why the independent space is different is there's so many different entry points, whether it's through marketing or through technology or through compliance or through relationship management or financial planning. And you can chart your own career path within an RIA. Not only that, but you have the opportunity to, you know, have a path to equity. And when women have a path to equity and ownership, that's a huge wealth-building opportunity for them. One, and then two, it allows them to have decision-making authority within that business. And I think with more women at the helm making decisions, it's, it's better outcomes for the business. It's better outcomes for the staff. It's better outcomes for clients and for the industry's reputation as a whole.

So for a lot of the larger firms, the more traditional ones, tell me about the advisor training programs and, and how they're falling short in your estimation, or amongst many younger people with You know, the, you know, catch what you, you know, what you kill, all of that.

Yeah. So I think they're short-sighted, one, because the large financial institutions, they really focus their efforts on elite universities and MBAs. And I think that's short-sighted because we're in a relationship-driven business. So I think we have to cast a wider net. Also, they're plucking talent from their banking feeder systems. Who have, you know, proven that they can develop business and moving them over to wealth management. That's not available to everyone. And we've proven that these two candidate pools are not moving the needle. So why are they falling short? So if we really look at them, even the best ones, and I'm not saying this is easy, I think this is the biggest challenge our industry faces in training. I think most industries, you know, fail in this, this area. I would bet that the best advisor programs, there's probably 10% or less success rate of someone becoming a true standalone advisor, built the business on their own, didn't inherit any accounts. As of late, there's been a concerted effort to influence teaming as a way to tackle both succession planning as well as, you know, a way to increase diversity. And I think on paper, the numbers look really good. One thing that does annoy me is I don't like it when a CEO stands up in front of their entire organization and says, you know, we are at, you know, 36% women, and it seems just like a cattle call, and it, you know, reinforces the stereotype of women only got that role because they checked a box, and that's not true. These firms need to make the strategic investment in women because it's proven that they will be more profitable. And really, even though this is all good intention, this idea of teaming at the large firms, it's really a method to keep the assets sticky to the firm. It's a way to spread out those rep codes amongst more people so that if that advisor does decide to leave, it's much harder to do that because you're now having to convince an entire team. Another issue with it is women specifically And I've even kind of experienced this to some level, is they create these team roles, but they always seem to steer the woman towards the marketing associate or practice manager instead of the business developer. And because of that, they're getting a much smaller piece of the revenue pie or the rep code. And again, we're not changing anything. It's more of the same.

And what— and for firms like that, where do you— what would you think would be a good remedy for that of how they could maybe pivot, if you will, you know, in the context of being at a firm like that as opposed to simply leaving?

I wish I had all the answers and more time with you, Greg. But, again, I think it goes back to we have to— it's women thinking bigger and having a bigger vision for their role and being encouraged to do that by their male and female mentors around them. It's so important to be pushed into that a little bit. But also, you know, desire that and you know that the outcome is going to be a remarkable career.

Yeah. And tell me now, I'm really interested about hiring people from nontraditional businesses. I think that's a really fascinating aspect because on paper at least, there's more perceived risk, but there's, there's a lot of potential reward that may not be readily noticeable, like looking at a resume, right?

Yeah.

And to your point, a lot of these firms will go with the tried and true, oh, get the MBAs, go to the usual schools, get the same people. And I don't know if it's inertia, I don't know if it's a lack of imagination or some of both, but it seems like smaller firms, indie firms, you can be a bigger fish in a smaller pond and you're going to wear more hats and maybe kick more tires and you may have a dormant skill that you didn't even know you had and then you might really flourish. So tell me just about also at Dynasty, how that's manifested hiring people from non-traditional roles, and also more broadly, your thoughts about that and how and why the rest of the industry should perhaps embrace that more.

Sure, so this is such an exciting question to answer. It's something I'm really passionate about. So let's be honest, even if we had all the money and salary to dangle in front of people, we still can't find them. So out of necessity, because there is a talent shortage, we have to think beyond people with financial services background. And so we have to widen that net to include people from non-traditional backgrounds. And there's so much benefit in that just because there's so much we can learn from other industries. There's so many transferable skills. If you think about, you know, school counselors or teachers or waitresses or someone who works in the hospitality business, there's so, There's so much rich skills, there's so many rich skills out there, and really the best way to go about it is you really have to define what your culture is. What are your values? You know, how are decisions made? What are the power structures within your firm? How does work get done, and how do you define that? What stories do you tell to reinforce that? How do you have a candidate scorecard when you're interviewing someone to test for that, to see if they have that. I think as long as there's cultural alignment, everything else can be trained. But again, training is hard and it takes time and it doesn't happen overnight. I think most people like to look for financial services background because, you know, it's just easier to train from that point because it's almost like learning a new language. And at Dynasty specifically, I actually prefer when we hire people from non-traditional backgrounds without any financial services experience. Me coming into Dynasty with that background, I thought I knew a lot and came with a lot coming in, but I almost had to unlearn a lot in order to truly understand the independent space because it's, it's totally different than, you know, being at a larger firm. So you have to unlearn. So I think it's best to mold that person, take in those skills from outside industries because we're still very much defining the space. So I think all of that's really exciting.

Yeah, and I mean, you could have someone who has a lot of empathy and who very much might have an easier time understanding client concerns as maybe as opposed to someone who's just really obsessed with drumming up assets or what have you, or someone with skills which can manifest themselves and be very helpful. So are there any interesting examples or lines of work that you've come across of people who've successfully?

Yes. So I'll speak to two women that are my colleagues at Dynasty who I'm also very close with, one of which is the chief of staff to the COO. Her name is Katie. She came from the restaurant industry in Manhattan where she was a partner in a business. And, you know, in Manhattan, you can't have a bad meal like you have to be successful in that area. So I truly believe there's nothing that she can't do. She can put together a board deck. She can, you know, organize an entire conference. And she can know what's going on with every single person at the firm, so she knows when to swoop in and help. And that's just based on her, you know, experience in hospitality and running a business. And she's incredible. And I don't— Dynasty wouldn't be where they are today without her. Another example is we just hired a new person to the relationship management team named Liza. Liza came from the charitable world, nonprofit, and she decided to get her MBA during COVID and make a career pivot into finance. And originally I asked her in, you know, the interview, I was like, look, we're not saving the whales here. Like it's a little bit different. And she goes, really, it's not, you know, you're working with high net worth and ultra high net worth people. There's a lot at stake with their money. They want to make sure that that money's going towards, you know, a positive outcome, and I'm very adept at dealing with that. And so it's been a perfect match, and she's so relationship-driven. And again, those are two great examples of non-traditional backgrounds that have had success at Dynasty.

And amongst these people who've made the switch, do you— they'll come from different lines of work, but are there any common attributes that they share? Is there a common thread?

Yeah, so when I interview candidates personally as a part of our culture, this is what I look for. I look for a service orientation, I look for grit, I look for curiosity, I look for empathy, leading with EQ and not necessarily IQ. I also look for people that are open to feedback and are open to coaching and continuous learning and implementing that. I think the combination of those things creates a really successful employee and a really successful company.

OK. And I want to speak briefly about why many people leave their jobs. And at first blush, most people, or many people, will think of compensation. And of course, that's a very important component quite often. However, you wrote once that a lot of these people are really seeking workplace cultures that make them feel appreciated. And it's really funny because it doesn't cost any money and it doesn't seem impossible. So why are more firms not doing this? And just speak a little more to how that's so important that a lot of people will really roll the dice and change their life just to feel more appreciated.

So I'm sure people are tired of hearing this, but I can't answer this question without talking about the great resignation, which became the reshuffle which became, you know, the great reflection. I think everyone started to reevaluate their lives and their work and, you know, the kind of life and work-life balance they wanted to have during COVID And the hardest part about being a leader in today's business world is you really have to be aware of what each of your employees really wants out of their career. And it's not all the same, and it's not always money. It could be appreciation, it could be more time off, it could be part-time work, it could be, The ability to work from home every now and then or work completely from home. It's hard to put guidelines in place that meet what everyone wants. By the way, that changes over time too. So it's how do you manage that? It's constant communication with your employees, being close to your employees, being proximate, knowing what their needs are, and adjusting to that over time. I think the best leaders are really, really focused on that. And I mean, we've seen leaders like Elon Musk who, you know, took the opposite approach and we've seen the downfall of that and how that turned out.

Yeah. I mean, I think listening and you just not promising that you can do everything, but at least first acknowledging, hearing, and then in good faith acting on that and saying, look, we will try to do ABC. We can't necessarily accommodate everything you want. And I think I would assume that alone would be something, right? And if you're showing that good faith, and hopefully you could get close to what the employee wants.

Yeah, I mean, we talk about the gender gap and pay equity and fairness. And it's a constant movement towards parity, knowing that maybe parity will never exist just because it's so hard to achieve. It's almost like achieving perfection.. But knowing that there's effort and care around it, to your point, and the good faith that that's your intention means a lot to employees. And that's what keeps them ingrained in the culture and working hard and sticking with that company for many years.

Okay. That's excellent advice. And I'd want to ask you for an actionable idea, like what for listeners, what if you're running a firm, team, et cetera, what can you do to at least move the ball forward in terms of the things we've talked about today?

Yeah, so I would take a really hard look at your current employees, and I think I've mentioned this before, but there may be talent within your existing org chart that you didn't realize has the capabilities to expand beyond their current role. Maybe they just need that confidence boost. Maybe they need that push. Maybe they need that encouragement. That you recognize that in them. There are a lot of women, you know, that are in support functions. They could totally provide advisory and financial planning advice. They're fully capable. So consider that. Be open to that and encourage that. And I think it'll make you look at the possibilities of, you know, narrowing that gap more and solving for it.

And do you think there is more of this happening? Are you optimistic on this count?

I'm optimistic. Obviously, I'm still in this industry. I believe in this industry. I think it's a noble profession. I think it's a great industry for women. There's so much opportunity, and so I'm very optimistic about the future.

Yeah, and I think it just seems to me that the profession has not a PR problem, it's more of a lack of awareness. To your point earlier, younger people will think of traditional careers. I'll be a doctor, be a lawyer, be this or that. And this industry, it just isn't really top of mind. So it's a little bit the idea of out of sight, out of mind. So it just seems to me that there is an awful lot to recommend, but it's just how do you raise that awareness and also change what people might think? I think a lot of people think of wealth, money, finance as boring and stuffy, devoid of emotion, if you will. And in reality, it's all quite dynamic and it can be put to good use and it can be quite exciting and life-changing. And I think you're really helping people's lives if done right. So I don't know if there's anything to add to that, but I just feel there's a real—

Yeah, no, all of that hits me personally. My whole why of why I got into this industry is, to show my age a little bit, I was in high school when the Great Recession happened. My father lost his job, we had to sell our home, I thought, you know, my whole world turned upside down. I was worried about, you know, being able to pay for college. I had to, you know, get a job. And it just made me realize how fragile everything is. And I felt powerless. And I remember making a promise to myself in high school that I would never be in that situation. And so I got to understand these complicated things. And then I realized I can help people. With this because financial insecurity, aside from health concerns, is probably, you know, the most stressful thing that we can experience. And so I think if we positioned it more as a noble profession and as a relationship-driven profession and as a profession that's welcome to women, because let's face it, more women are becoming the face of wealth. Wealth will be owned by more women, you know, in the future. And we need to have, you know, the people supporting, you know, that wealth to look and feel and understand them in that way. So again, like I said, I'm positive about it. There just, there needs to be so much work done on the branding and the mindset of how do we change this? How do we shift this? And I think it's possible.

Yeah. Excellent. Well, that's a powerful story and very profound. Thank you so much for sharing that. My guest was Casey McKeon. For more advisor-specific podcasts, please check out barons.com/podcast. For The Way Forward, I'm Greg Bartolison.

This podcast was brought to you by Wells Fargo Advisors. Looking for a firm your clients can't outgrow? Wells Fargo Advisors offers financial advisors full balance sheet solutions, with wealth planning, investment products, banking, and lending that meet the needs of affluent to ultra-high net worth clients. Build your practice your way and on your schedule with independent and employee model options designed to meet your needs today and tomorrow. Learn more at joinwfadvisors.com.