Harnessing the Energy of Money

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Successful people have one learned skill in common. They know how to harness and effectively direct the use of energy. And one of the biggest forms of energy is money. Hi everyone, I'm business coach Steve Sandusky for Barron's Advisor, and welcome to Actionable Intelligence. My guest today is Dr. Maria Nemeth. Dr. Nemeth is an author, speaker, and master coach for purpose-driven people. She's also the founder and director of the Academy for Coaching Excellence. In today's conversation, we discuss the energy of money. Specifically, we talk about how to develop a healthy and powerful relationship with money that ultimately leads to living a fulfilling life as a hero's journey. Dr. Nemeth shares some specific tools and techniques we can use both on ourselves and with our clients that can help us all on our path to a fulfilling life. So let's get started with Dr. Maria Nemeth. I've been reading your books and listening to some of the podcasts that you've been on, and you have quite a career and a depth and breadth of material here. So I am excited to dig into some of that.

I'm thrilled to be here. You have prepared so well for this podcast. I just want to give you a real shout out here. And when I saw it, I said, oh boy, this is going to be fun talking to Steve.

Thank you, I appreciate that. All right, well then, let's dig in here. So why is it, Maria, that so many of us have a messed up relationship with money?

You have 5 hours. Yeah, but let's just— just getting to the point. So money is a form of energy. Steve. And you know, it's this particular form of energy. There are 6 types of energy that we need in order to really be successful and live. There's the energy of money. There's the energy of time. And you know, money and time are so mixed up together, aren't they? You know, years ago when I'd say to someone, why aren't you going on this vacation? They'd say, oh, I don't have the money to do it. But over the past 10 years, whenever I say it, they say, I don't have the time. But time and money are very much together. You waste time, you waste money. You invest time, you invest money. The third energy is the energy of physical vitality, where you learn how to treat your body right so you can do what it is you want to be doing in your life. Then there's the energy of creativity. The energy of enjoyment, and the energy of relationship and support. But Steve, among all these six forms of energy, the most important one to learn to master is money. We love it, we hate it, we can't live with it, we can't live without it. I mean, it almost sounds like a personal relationship, doesn't it? And it is, because We worry if we don't have enough of this energy, or if we have a lot of this energy, we're worried that we're gonna lose it or that people are gonna see us differently. You know, I remember one woman who was very wealthy and she said, Maria, every time one of my daughters calls me, I don't think that she really wants to speak with me. I think she really is gonna ask for some more money. And so really it doesn't matter how much or little of this energy you have. It's so attached to our survival, isn't it? How am I going to be eating? How am I going to be putting a roof over my head? And, you know, one of the fears that women have a lot, in spite of all the money they have, When I ask someone, what is it that you really fear the most as you grow older? And one of them said, actually more than one, many of them said, I don't want to be a bag lady, I'm afraid. And I'd say, but wait, look at all the money. I could lose it in a minute. So it's wound up with our sense of security, isn't it? And with our sense of self-esteem. I remember one man saying to me, you know, I'm a real estate agent here. And I said, yes. And he said, you know, I don't want people to know how little money I have.

How little money I have.

How little money I have. You know, because I have to show up and be really, you know, there and successful and pose myself. But I don't have very much money. You know, he made some bad business decisions, but Isn't it tied up with our self-esteem?

It is. And you mentioned the bag lady example, and I had a conversation not long ago with a person who said, I'm concerned that I could walk into the office tomorrow and it would all be gone. And this was a person who was pretty successful yet was still worried that it could all go away in an instant. So, so clearly we have many of us, a conflicted relationship with money. And you obviously have been studying this for decades. You've taught thousands and thousands of people how to get a better relationship with money. And I know, you know, you wrote a book called The Energy of Money. It's been around since the late 1990s. It's a fantastic book. And one of the things that you talk about in there is this idea of the hero's journey, which comes, I think, probably from Joseph Campbell, The Hero with a Thousand Faces. So how do you connect this idea of the hero's journey with improving our relationship with money or how we go through life? And maybe first of all, define what the hero's journey is, and then let's talk about how do you connect that with our relationship with money?

Yes, it is from Joseph Campbell who said, if we could see our lives as a hero's journey, because one of the reasons that we love heroes so much is because they tap into a sense of of who we are too. You know, the hero goes out and meets up with challenges and can either overcome them or is hacked to a thousand pieces, Joseph Campbell would say, and descends into kind of a hell place where he can then be resurrected again. You know, we love these stories. And so if we see that our life is, it is a hero's journey. Joseph Campbell said, you know, it would give you so much more meaning. It would give you a sense of continuity in your life that you are here to overcome whatever inevitable obstacles are here on the way to achieving what it is you really love so that He says, you can bring it back to your community and share it. And George Lucas said, you know, if it weren't for Joseph Campbell and looking at life as a hero, the Star Wars would never have really gotten off of my desk because Joseph Campbell gave me a theme, a way to look at life. So I say to people, are you willing to see that you are in fact a hero. You have goals and dreams and a desire to make a difference. Inside you have all your own answers that wherever you are, you can contribute and make a difference, and that you deserve to be treated with dignity and respect as well as treating others in the same way. So that's a kind of like a In a nutshell, the hero's journey, how it involves money, right? So even in the old myths, one of the things that a hero does is look under a rock and sure enough, there's gold there. You know, what does gold represent? It represents power. It represents the ability to get things done. And I ask people a lot, why do you want money? Really? Let's say you have a roof over your head, you don't have to worry about your clothing or where your next meal is coming from. Why do you want money? What's it going to do for you? And as I have people really look very deeply, almost inevitably when you get down to the bottom, it's, I want to be able to do things with money that truly make a difference.. And it could be make a difference in my family or make a difference in my community. But I want to use money to create my legacy. So you see how powerful this energy is and, and how if you learn, if you take away all the stuff that gets in between you and using this energy in the way it's meant to be used, you open yourself up for more of it. And it's not magical. The minute you clear away where you've been stuck with money, it opens up a whole realm of possibility of what you can do with your life. And often it involves getting more money.

Many of the people listening to this are in the money business. Many people listening to this are very successful from a financial standpoint. And as you think about this hero's journey, I know one of the things you talk about in your book as well, and that you teach, is you have a particular definition of success. How do you describe what success is?

I am thrilled that you asked me that, actually in front of people who are very successful. So my definition of success is that success is doing what you said you would do consistently with clarity, focus, ease, and grace. Doing what you said you would do consistently, time after time, with clarity— where clarity is that you are clear about your goals and dreams, you're clear about, for example, what you actually want to use money for and people who help, financial planners, they can help you become very clear of what money is for, for you. But not just about money, it can be about anything. Be clear about what I want for my family, be clear about my vision for life. Focus, Steve, is about learning how to focus your brain. In my work, a lot of what I do is actually a form of brain training. Because you train your brain to focus upon what it is you really love, not to become distracted. Ease is about learning how to take small, sweet steps. It's kind of interesting because in the '60s and '70s, and, you know, at my age and the fact that I've worked with people for over 50 years now, I can say The interesting thing was that people were taught to go for big goals, you know, big hairy goals, go for it. And now, however, people are burned out, they're overwhelmed, they're overworked, and they see that maybe jumping up ahead might not be good for them, might not be how they want to live their life. So ease is about learning how to take focused, small, sweet steps toward what it is you really love consistently. You see, it's all about sustainability. The definition of grace is being able to see the blessings that surround us always. The blessings, the good stuff. You know, we train our brains so much to look at the stuff that isn't working. The stuff that we have to be frightened about. Okay, that's all well and good. But how about in addition, looking at what's truly happening to us, what grace is all about. And the gateway to grace, Steve, is gratitude. So part of the brain training that I do with people is about learning how to be grateful. You know, what are 3 things for which you are grateful today? Write it down in a journal. Do it for 30 days. I say at the end of each day, just 3 things for which you are grateful. If you do it for 30 days and then read what you wrote, you will see the hand of grace in your life. But you see, the way we live our lives is so busy, the hustle and bustle, that sometimes we don't see the blessings that are there. Sometimes it could be calling out to us, look at me, wait, I'm here, look at what's working. And we nevertheless go ahead with all the problems and stuff that isn't so. Clarity, focus, ease, and grace, those are ways to live. You know, it's not so much what you achieve, but how you go about achieving it that counts.

Yeah, and I want to dig in on a couple of things that you said there. So one, let's talk about this idea of ease. And one of the things that you wrote here is that the opposite of ease is struggle, not as many think working hard. And you said that you can work hard with ease. And I wanna explore that because I work with a lot of people who say, I'm just, I feel like I'm grinding, I'm working super hard. I got 7 or 8 appointments a day and I'm just kind of grinding it out. How do you think about that? How can we work hard with ease?

Well, let me give you one example, not of the financial, but set that aside for a moment. I remember a friend of mine who would come home from his studio. He was a sculptor. He'd come home just, you know, covered in marble dust and he'd immediately take a shower when he, you know, got into the house. And I remember asking him about it. Don't you get worn out? He said, no, wait, I am working hard, but I'm not struggling. And struggle comes around when you are unfocused in how you're using your energy. And in this case, it would be the energy of time. If you have 8 meetings a day back to back. Step aside for a moment, you know, just kind of pretend that you have a 500-foot view and you're looking down. Ask yourself, why is this person creating 8 or 9 back-to-back meetings a day? What is it that they want to prove in their life? What would happen if they had 5 meetings a day, would it scare them? And I say anything that scares you is worth investigating because if you're struggling, meaning at the end of the day, you're exhausted, you can be tired because you've done things that you love in a focused way, or you can be exhausted. And exhausted is no energy. Tired means I've spent energy and I feel great. I'll bet it's like for you when you climb mountains, you know, you can either struggle, which is taking your attention off things and getting your mind kind of full of unnecessary thoughts, just put it that way, and then you start struggling. But when you then train your brain to go one small sweet step at a time. You're working hard, but there's no exhaustion because you're not leaking energy. In this case, it would be leaking your physical energy. So learning how to focus, take small sweet steps toward what you love, and practicing gratitude Now I've worked with people who say, oh, come on, Maria, you know, I'm a very successful person. I've worked with multi-multi-millionaires and still do. And I remember one of them said that this, come on, this is kid stuff. And I said, Harry, try it. And he did. And after 30 days, he couldn't contain the smile on his face, you know. And he's gone on to continue listing his gratitudes every day, his gratitude journal, because he's seeing what's in his life, what's working.

One of the things that I think ties into all of this— you've used the word fear or frightened, we've used the word hard here— and one of the things that came out in your book as I was reading it was this idea that, that life is hard. And this is a quote here: life is hard when you don't do what you truly value because you are putting all your energy into trying to get rid of your fears rather than into materializing your dreams. And so I really like this concept of, let's talk about focus. Are we going to focus our energy in ways that's moving us toward what we want or trying to get us away from what we don't want? And maybe that ties in with this idea of we can work hard with ease because the energy is going toward what we want and materializing that, as opposed to I'm trying to get rid of the stuff that I don't like. And so again, it gets back to, Clarity. What do I want? What do I wanna accomplish? What do I want out of life? What do I wanna give to life that gives me energy at the end of the day? So I could work really hard, but at the end of the day, it's like, let's go party because I'm so full of energy as opposed to I'm just so drained. I gotta go to bed at 6 o'clock tonight 'cause I'm so tired.

Oh my gosh. So you're absolutely right. When you're focusing on getting rid of your fears, they will follow you. If you focus instead, with regard to fears, on observing what the fear is about, like, let me just look at this for a second. I'm trying to get away from something. What is it that I'm trying to get away from? Is there a message here? Maybe I need help with something. Maybe I need support. You know, for people in business, when they're afraid of something, it usually means that they're not getting enough support to be successful at what they're doing. That's the sixth energy, the energy of relationship and support. And there's so many of us, Steve, who say, I don't need support. Come on.

Let's go into the fear a little bit more. And let's talk about some of these emotions, 'cause I think this is another stumbling block, again, as it relates to money. Some of us may have a fear of having too much money, and I've run into this situation many times where a person might consciously or unconsciously sabotage themselves when they might be about to come into a significant amount of money or maybe get a new big client, because for some reason they may feel like, maybe I didn't earn this, maybe I'm not worthy of this. Now, we don't want to turn this into a psychological counseling session, but I think it really gets back to And we're not talking just advisors here. We're talking clients. Or, you know, they feel the same way. And maybe the focus really should be more on the client side here. But when a client has an unhealthy relationship with money, what are some things that we can do? Maybe what are some tools that we can help them work through? You just mentioned here to really examine the feeling or the emotion and where's it coming from. And that might shed some light on it. Oftentimes we tend to just try and suppress it or repress it. Well, that doesn't work. Somehow we've got to feel it. So what are some of your thoughts on how we can deal with an emotion that really is getting in the way here?

Yeah, so fear. So one of the things that I like people to look at is, am I willing to encounter what I'm afraid of? Am I willing? So I want to actually point to a very powerful tool that I have taught people over the years, which is excellent in looking at your fear. Okay. It's called being willing, being willing. So Dag Hammarskjöld, the second Secretary General of the United Nations, he was Swedish. He was a very spiritual man. And he wrote many, many things, but one of his sayings, when I read it, just meant so much to me. It's this: for everything that has been, I say thank you. Everything. Can you imagine? Everything that has been, I say thank you. And for all that is yet to be, I say yes. Isn't that Courageous, because he's saying, doesn't matter what has been. I am willing to find the nugget for me, something that can propel me forward. I don't want to suppress it. I say thank you. It's at such a different level, Steve, than just kind of groveling along with the fear and getting worried and doubt, and it increases. Just for everything that has been, I say thank you. What is your fear teaching you? Don't be afraid of your fear. It's just a little activation of your amygdala, which is trying— I'll tell you, the thing that keeps people where they are, it's not so much that they're sabotaging themselves. It is that there's such a change in the energy state. If I'm about to inherit $20 million and I've never worked at that level, my brain is going to start going a little nuts. And I'll tell you why in just a minute. But for everything that has been, I say thank you. Is a mantra that if people looked at it for themselves, what am I thankful for in my past life? Instead of trying to push it away, what has it taught me? And then for all that is yet to be, I say yes. Isn't that amazing? You mean yes to everything? Well, Doug Hammershaw would say, well, you might as well say yes because it's coming at you anyway. And to say yes gives you a little bit of power. So for everything that has been, I say thank you. And being willing is what I got from that. Okay, to be willing puts us in a much higher state of consciousness. I may not want to look at my fear, and I'm willing. I might think I can't look at my fear, and I'm willing. Do you see? I don't want to talk about money, with my financial advisor. And nevertheless, I'm willing. You see, you can be willing to do what you don't think you can do, because it's at a different level. So I say to people, the biggest 4 words that you could ever say in your life are, nevertheless, I am willing.

What I want to dig a little deeper on here is this example of let's say an advisor, maybe they're used to working with people that have $2 million in assets, and now someone with $20 million comes along. And I've seen a lot of folks say, you know, well, I'm comfortable working with people that have between $500,000 to $2 million in assets. That's my bread and butter, let's say. And then someone with $20 million comes along. I think I heard you say that we're operating on a different energy level there, and we're not used to that energy level. But you say, look, Nevertheless, I am willing to do that. Okay, so maybe that's what we need to tell ourselves. But then this idea of the comfort zone comes into play. I know you've talked about that as well. So how do we get ourselves out of the comfort zone? And is there truly such a thing as a comfort zone?

No, there isn't. There really isn't. It only is in the mind, you know. So I just love this conversation. I wish we had 3 hours because you, you're evoking so many things that I could talk about. One of the main things that I would love to leave your audience with is that our brain, your brain and mine, has not evolved much over the past 100,000 years. Science has seen that. We are essentially, you and I and people who are listening right now, we're essentially functioning in many ways with brains that existed 100,000 years ago. What that means is when we say, I'm afraid of this, you know, the brain says, you know, there's really a woolly mammoth outside. Don't go outside your cave right now. Because to do a little exercise, let's say that you and I are living 100,000 years ago. And we wanted to go out and get some food, and we go to the edge of the cave to go out to get something to eat, what's the first thing your brain is going to look for?

That woolly mammoth.

Danger. Absolutely. Because there's evidence to show that people who didn't check for the woolly mammoth, they died. So The people who made it are people like you and me. They had an anxious brain. So we have inherited an anxious brain. It means to the person for whom 20 million is scary, I would say to them, look, you have a perfectly functioning brain right now. It's trying to tell you that there is a woolly mammoth outside of your cave that really is going to pounce on you. Now, this is the question: is that really true? Is there a woolly mammoth? Is there really something you should fear? If there were, let's look at it. But is there really something? It's a matter of an extra zero. Is that really something to fear, or are the principles the same? Whether it's $2,000, $20 million, $200 million, it's the same. It's just that it's more energy, and you might see a little more fear in the people who are richer, but dealing with the same people. They all have brains that are warning them that there are woolly mammoths outside. So our are you nevertheless willing to serve them?

Yeah, and I like your question there, is it true? And from a coaching standpoint, that is a great go-to question when something comes up, is that true? And causes you to examine that. So let's stay on this idea of fear for another minute, 'cause another thing that I wanna talk about here is scarcity. And that is fear for many people. I mean, even people that have $20 million, $200 million, they fear that they might lose it. Or someone is in retirement and they don't want to spend the money that they've so diligently saved and invested over all these years because they fear that maybe they'll lose it or they won't have enough. How do you think about this idea of scarcity? How can we have a better perspective or a better relationship with this idea of scarcity?

Okay, there's two ways to answer the question. The first is from a coaching perspective. If there's someone who's afraid of spending money because they might end up losing all of it, because their brain is acting as though something bad is gonna happen, incidentally, this is called the negativity bias. It is the tendency for the brain to look first at what could go wrong before anything else. So we were just talking about that. The most important thing is to reassure that person that this anxiety is normal and natural. Normal, meaning everybody has it. Natural means you don't have to be taught to be afraid. So I acknowledge people who have fear because their amygdalas are firing, that little center in your brain that's the seat of fight, flight, or freeze. So the amygdala is firing, okay? So I say it's normal and natural, but it's not extraordinary. And are you willing to live an extraordinary life out of the ordinary? I'd say that to the person in a senior setting, you know, let's look and see, is there really something to be afraid of? Or do we have a brain, once again, that is doing its job? Because all it wants to do, Sally, I would say, all it wants to do is keep you from being eaten by a woolly mammoth. Your brain is functioning like it did 100,000 years ago. You want to listen to that part? Is that how you want to live your life? Or would you like to entertain some other ideas about how to live? Now, almost always the person will say, yeah, I want to have extraordinary. And so you have to ask, well, what kind of a tool can you use to help them be extraordinary. And one tool I developed many, many years ago in helping people focus their brains on something extraordinary is called the Life's Intentions Inventory, where the definition of an intention is that it's a direction, aim, or focus. And a life's intention is a direction, aim, or focus that gives our lives a sense of meaning. And so I have them look at the life's intentions inventory. You know, it's like, okay, you know, I'm holding up this piece of paper right now to demonstrate to you. So, okay, your brain— the minute I say your brain, I don't say you have been focused, because one of the things that I know in working with people now for 50 years, you are not your brain. You have a brain. It's an organ. You have two eyes, a nose, a mouth, and a brain. Who you are is that which has the capacity to train your brain, to grow it in the way you want it to go. And even if you're 95— my Aunt Gloria, she's 94, brilliant woman— you know, I still have her look at some sweet goals that she has. So focusing somewhere else, life's intentions, for example, they sound like this: to be a loving family member, to be spiritually developing, to be financially successful. And financial success, by my definition, is doing what you said you would do consistently with money, with clarity, focus, ease, and grace. So it doesn't matter how much money you have. What matters, Steve, is what you're doing with what you have.

One of the things that I want to tap into that you just said here was this Life's Intentions tool. And another way that I think of it, and I'd love to get your feedback on this, is tying that back to this idea of scarcity. Is I think so often when we have this scarcity mindset, we tend to think of money as an amount, or as I like to say, as a stock, meaning it's like an amount of something, a stock of something, not a stock as in like a company stock. But if we think of it more as a flow and maybe think of it like a river, where a river is just constantly flowing, sometimes it's going to flow a little faster if the glaciers are melting a little bit faster. Sometimes it might be flowing slower, but it's flowing. If we think of money as more of a flow as opposed to a stock, then maybe we think a little less about scarcity. And to tie into your life's intentions, it's about having that life intention. It's about the direction that we want to go. It's the direction that the river is flowing. So as long as we can keep that river flowing and not fixate on a fixed amount, then I think maybe we can be in good shape. Is that maybe one way to frame this idea of scarcity?

That's great. Absolutely. Because And I'm glad you're bringing us back to it. Scarcity is with us always. We live in scarcity. And I remember someone saying, what do you mean? So for those of you who are listening, try this experiment. Take a deep breath and then hold it. And then after about 15, 20, 30 seconds, you'll begin to experience a scarcity of oxygen. We live in a scarcity place. It's normal, it's natural to worry about it. However, it is not extraordinary. So training your brain, you know, so your worries about scarcity, or I call it scare city, they're normal, they're normal, you're okay. But my question to you is, Do you want to focus on scarcity or do you want to focus on your goals and dreams? But, but, but, but wait, wait, somebody might say, come on, but what if I don't have enough money for my goals and dreams? And I say, well, look at it this way. Let's look at what you want to contribute because life's intentions are all about contributing. And we can start off small and look at what doesn't take a lot of money just so that you get into that flow. That experience that you're talking about, let's start small and then work up. Because when the person gets used to that, you know, looking at what I'm here for, what I want to do for my family, is there someone in my community or some program, you know, like the Heifer Association or Kiva or places where I want to donate so that others are empowered. Start small, and then you come back to me and see what you think, and then we can start a little more. So that's the ease part.

As you were talking, it reminded me of an earlier episode we had with Dr. Sarah Newcomb, and she was referencing Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And she said they call it Maslow's hierarchy of needs as opposed to Maslow's hierarchy of wants. And so as you just mentioned here, someone said, well, maybe I— what if I don't have enough I don't have the money to do what I want, she would say the same thing as you just said, which is, well, let's just start small. We want all these things. We shouldn't preclude ourselves from having or doing the things that we want. We just have to figure out a way to solve the underlying emotion or feeling that having or doing that thing gives to us. And we may be able to reach that in a different way than spending a whole boatload of money on it.

It's absolutely true. And I see Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you know, I'm Dr. Maria Nemeth, I'm trained psychologist in many years. I, for about 15 years, 20 years, I had a psychotherapy practice. I would say that Maslow's the hierarchy of development. So when people say they want something, one of the things to ask them is, What will that really satisfy? Now, one way of looking at it is to go through, the way I've done it is go through the life's intentions inventory. You know, with what you want, where does it fit on this inventory? These are ways of being, ways of contributing, ways of doing things, you know, and help the person see see if that's really what they want. Is that true? Yeah, exactly.

Back to that question.

Yeah. Or is it you think you should want it? I say that people who are financial managers helping people with their money, you're really helping them craft their life. You really are, you know. And I know that many financial planners know this. It's such a privilege to work with people and their relationship with money. It's so, it's really so much a privilege. I remember a psychiatrist who was one of my clients. He said, you know, I would rather talk about my sex life than how much money I make. You know, it was just so clear. So if I were to give you just a parting, thought. Just think what you're really doing is so powerful. It's a way to contribute not only to that person but to the people around them. And if you want to study and have breakthroughs with money even more, I was telling you, Steve, I have these 3 programs. It's under energyofmoneycourse.com. Energyofmoneycourse.com. And they're wonderful digital tools. And I'm there, I'm guiding you in person through a lot of exercises, the ending of which is to truly transform your relationship with money to one of clarity, focus, ease, and grace. So I want to thank you for letting me on this program. And you know what I want to thank you for? You let me talk. You've been very generous with me, really. I just thank you, thank you, thank you for doing that.

Well, thank you. This has been a fantastic conversation, and you've been very generous with your time. And so we've got energyofmoneycourse.com. And are there other ways for folks to connect with you if they want to continue to learn more? I know you've got a couple great books out there as well.

Yes, The Energy of Money book. Mastering Life's Energies is another book. And if you really, really want to get in touch with me, what you do is write to monica@acecoachtraining.com, A-C-E coachtraining.com, because I run the Academy for Coaching Excellence. We're an ICF-certified school I've been working with people around the world for over 20 years. We have wonderful faculty, wonderful mentors. You can check us out at acecoachtraining.com, or you can write to Monica at acecoachtraining.com. Excellent.

Well, Maria, thank you very much. Congratulations on the, the great body of work that you've put together here and, and the impact that you've had on so many people over all these decades.

Oh, thank you. And once again, thank you for being so generous with me. This was a delight.

My key takeaway from my conversation with Dr. Nemeth is her definition of success. She said, "Success is doing what you said you would do consistently with clarity, focus, ease, and grace." And that definition leaves plenty of room for each of us to carve out our own path to success. Success in whatever form it may take. And yes, money as a form of energy is part of the foundation of that success. And as Dr. Nemeth discussed in our show, there are many ways to harness and effectively direct that energy. All right, that's all for today. Make sure that you like and share this podcast through your favorite social platforms. And for more great podcasts, visit us at barons.com/podcast. Podcasts. Take care and be safe.

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