How a Top Morgan Stanley Doctor Helps Clients Stay Healthy

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Welcome to Barron's The Way Forward. I'm Greg Bartellis, and my special guest is Dr. Kim Henderson, Managing Director and Head of Wealth Management Health and Wellness Education at Morgan Stanley. Welcome to the podcast.

Thank you.

I am really fascinated by your career, how it has these distinct chapters in medicine. You worked as a physician, CVS Health, Morgan Stanley. Before we talk about what you do at Morgan Stanley and how you help clients in terms of health, Tell us a bit about your story.

Well, first of all, thank you for having me here. And the story started just as normally as you would expect. I went to medical school in Washington, D.C., came up to New York. My first job as an attending physician was at Beth Israel Hospital. I stayed there for many, many years, and I had an interesting opportunity posed to me when I was actually out on maternity leave with my first son. So, and now I'm going to date myself a little bit, but I was looking in the newspaper because I was bored.

Hey, that's still great.

You know, people don't do that anymore. But there was an advertisement, "Do you like to work with mid-level clinicians?" And I'm like, "Yes, I like to do that all the time." And there was a phone number and I called and, you know, they had questions, you know, "Are you a doctor? Where do you practice?" And I told them, "Yes, I'm an emergency physician." You know, I I practice at Beth Israel. I work with mid-level providers like nurse practitioners and physician assistants all the time. They were like, well, would you be willing to do that for our mid-level providers? And I said, yes, of course, I'm happy to do it because I was losing my mind at home with a newborn. I was just going to mush and I could not come back to work because it was too early. So they were like, okay, do this. And it opened an entire new lens of taking care of patients. You know, as doctors, you're used to seeing patients and touching them and smelling them and that's the patient you took care of. But through this model, you were able to take care of all kinds of patients that you never ever saw through the nurse practitioner. It was a great new addition to my practice. That's how I dipped my toe in the water of ancillary care, care where the patient isn't actually in front of you, but you're working closely with the provider to wrap that patient with care. So I started doing that kind of as my little book of business on the side. And as it would happen, the side situation became more interesting than the main situation. So then I dove into the deep end of the pool and ended up in CVS land at MinuteClinic.

Okay. And how long were you there for? And then how did you go from there to where you are now?

I was at MinuteClinic for 9 years, and it really did grow over that time. At first, it was just a few clinics, maybe 100 clinics across the country. By the time I left, there were over 5,000 or 6,000 clinics across the country. So it was very interesting to see that people needed care that fit them at the right place at the right time. It's not always convenient for a patient to have to go into a big hospital system or leave work and make a doctor's appointment. Sometimes when they're in a pharmacy picking up toothpaste, they can go and see the practitioner and get the care that they need when they need it. So did that. It was fantastic work there. And then a little thing called the pandemic came along and it really did upend everything in medicine. I think the pandemic was an inflection point for many physicians, including myself. I knew that I wanted to do my part to help. And as I was in one of the epicenters of the pandemic because I was still living in New York City, that was the time where they called all physicians kind of back, no matter what you were doing or where you were. If you were somewhere that you could be helpful in New York, they were begging and pleading. So of course, I went back to the emergency room where it all began. And I've never felt so helpless as a doctor. You know, you watch doctor television shows and all kinds of incredible things happen. It's really usually not like that in real life. People come in, you examine them, you listen to their problem, you help them, they're happy, they go. These patients, I've never seen anything like it before where a young patient would come in and just not do well or entire family members, one after the other would come in during COVID and have the same same terrible outcome. And I wanted to help clinically, but I also wanted to spread my wings and see what else was available to me outside of the clinical arena. So that's when I found the opportunity at Morgan because they were looking— happened to be looking for an associate medical director at the time. Which very quickly morphed into being a COVIDologist. So I spent my first 2 years sort of making my way through the pandemic, trying to understand the very quickly changing recommendations from either the World Health Organization or the CDC would be one thing at 2 o'clock and be something completely different at, at 4 o'clock and to operationalize that across not just a national company, but an international company that Morgan Stanley was, it was very exciting. It gave me my passion back. I felt like I was really helping my colleagues and it was a very good inflection point for me as a physician.

Is part of the excitement that you can just leverage what you know now to help so many more? I mean, the trade-offs are like you see an individual patient, it's one-on-one, and that's amazing, but again, it's limited in scope. And with the resources of Morgan, you can draw onto more things and very precisely match the needs of the client with what they might need. Can you talk a little about that, how you're kind of a conduit, if you will?

Absolutely. And it is such, it is my dream job, actually. It's just an amazing thing to be able to come up with solutions for our clients. Because sometimes people forget that clients are actually people too, and they have people problems. They have elderly parents that fall down and break their hip. They have kids that maybe are struggling in school or significant others that have chronic medical conditions. Like, they have real people problems. And the thing that's so remarkable and refreshing is when you come to these clients with solutions, right? With, I can help you with that. First, they're kind of like, you can? Really? You'll help me with that? And then it's just the overall exhale of, I'm so grateful that I can rely on Morgan Stanley for my, my journey. It's not just a transactional relationship. When the financial advisors bring me into a conversation because one of their clients have a devastating diagnosis or something going on, they invariably will introduce that client as, this is my friend so-and-so. They don't talk about their client. These are real relationships that are important to each other. I mean, for the client and for the advisor. So I almost feel like a family doctor in a small town. So it's great.

Tell me a little more actually about the process, how it works. So you have, let's say, a client speaks with the advisor, discloses this problem. The advisor comes to you and says, Dr. Henderson, you know, let's talk, what do you think we should do?

Right?

I mean, if you can break down the process a little more, it'd be interesting to know.

Absolutely. So at Morgan Stanley, where I sit in family office resources, we actually have an entire platform of services that is available. They're available to our clients. And one of the verticals is health and wellness education. So we go through a very rigorous process to vet those specialty providers and bring them onto the platform. So we have a plethora of offerings depending upon what our clients need. For example, we have many clients that have questions about cancer services or oncology-type diagnoses. So we have a vetted provider that specializes in that space. So the way it usually will go is just as you said, The client will have a conversation with their advisor. We just found out that my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer. What can I do? And then the advisor will reach out to me and repeat the story. We'll all come together with the client, the advisor, me, and try and figure out what makes sense for this patient at this time. Because even Even in our clients that have seemingly limited resources, medicine is scary and you get a diagnosis and you don't know what to do. And many doctors are talking to you and they're using words that maybe you haven't heard and a lot is going on in a very tight period of time. It's nice to be able to slow down and take a step back and explain to the client, we can help you with this, let us step in.

Yeah, and I mean, it's a really daunting thing, right? I mean, people generally are on their own. They learn news of a diagnosis or there's a problem, and then part of the problem is there's such an abundance of choices, and yet the issue at hand is so important, you don't want to get it wrong. So a lot of people almost become overwhelmed by indecision, and what do they lean on? Maybe a reference or two, online reviews, right? But that only goes so far. So with your medical expertise, I'd imagine they're getting clearly a very informed opinion.

Try and make it simple and streamline it for clients because the last thing they need is just more. In medicine is not necessarily better.

Yeah.

Sometimes more is just more and sometimes more is just noise.

What are some of the most common reasons that clients will reach out in terms of healthcare needs? What are some, I mean, you mentioned cancer, what else is, well, I mean, the, it usually comes in 3 big buckets.

It'll either be a healthcare need in the actual client. So we get those calls. And it can be a plethora of reasons. You know, it can be something devastating as cancer. It can be something as simple as, I've sold my closely held business away. How do I now get health insurance for myself and my family? Just really nuts and bolts kind of questions as it relates to the healthcare landscape. We'll also get many, many inbound calls from clients asking about care for elderly loved ones. Just, you know, all the time.

I mean, given the demographics, I'm not at all— aging demographics, not surprising at all, right?

Yep. So how do we know when it's not safe for mom to live by herself anymore? Or if she can't live by herself anymore, where does she go? You know, what, what can we do in that space? And then on the other end of the spectrum, because many of our clients are very squarely in that sandwich generation, We get calls about clients' children. You know, maybe the child is not doing as well at school as one would think or has other issues along that continuum. You know, how can I help my child? So it really does run the gamut. And then just recently, there's been, I'd say since COVID there's been a huge interest in everything and anything related to longevity, like every, client call will at least have a little sprinkle of a longevity question in it. And it's very interesting because our clients, they're very successful people and they always want to know what is the best thing I need to do as it relates to longevity or what is the, you know, the silver bullet. And I feel like I'm always a little bit of a disappointment in that space because longevity is not, you know, a function of what supplements you take or, you know, are you drinking kombucha or not? Like, it's more of a journey of everything you do. And it's usually things that you already know are important, but they're not super new or cutting edge. So I start talking to people about how's your water intake, you know, how much water do you drink every day? Do you get at least 7 hours of sleep at night? How's your diet? And what do you do to manage stress? And a lot of times it will mute the conversation just a little bit because I'm not offering a pill or a shot or some, you know, novel therapy to increase your longevity. It really is just the general blocking and tackling.

Absolutely.

Good healthcare.

Yeah, I just read an article about a well-known nutritionist. I'm forgetting her name, but the point of it is she said, you know, in a similar spirit, like, the answer is there's no magic bullet. It's just kind of, you know, the best diet is frankly boring and kind of stuff that generally people know. So it is what it is. You mentioned that the interest in longevity really accelerated after COVID. Do you trace that at least in part to the fact that during COVID so many people lost people close to them, and also being at home for so long gave them— they maybe got more in touch with their mortality and kind of got off the proverbial treadmill. Everything stopped, and there were just deep, maybe more exploration and sensitivity to these issues.

I mean, that's exactly right. People do die. Like, that is something you learn very early as a physician. But the problem with COVID or the challenge with COVID even for physicians, is that the patients that were dying were not the patients that were supposed to be dying. These were not 90-year-old patients with comorbidities and on 10 medications. These were not fragile patients. These were robust 28-year-old marathon runners. They were not supposed to die. And that is what I think shook me as a physician. That's what shook many of my colleagues, because that's not the way it works in real life bread and butter emergency medicine where I worked for years and years. People don't come into the emergency room and just die one after the other after the other. That might be in the movies or television shows because it's very dramatic. But that's not real. And any unexpected death is just— it's jarring. So imagine if you worked an 8 or 10-hour shift and most of the patients you saw were either critically ill, they were getting intubated, they were dying, and it was at a point where their family couldn't be with them. So they'd have to hold up— we would have to hold up an iPad to the patient to say goodbye to their— like, that's not emergency medicine. And it was a surreal, unbelievable experience in the beginning.

Yeah, on a human level, that must have been profoundly disturbing, and understandably so. And it's interesting because from the outside, so many people say, oh, the doctors— I mean, almost in a sense that they're this not human, but they're just incredibly stoic in their professions, which they are, but they're human beings too. And you know that as soon as they go home and shut the door, there were probably a lot of tears and whatnot.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So I'd say that it did bring your mortality right into your face, something that maybe you didn't think about every day. And I think that's a good thing. But there's also a lot of incorrect information about longevity out there that when you are desperate for it, you know, you're like, well, maybe I'll give it a try. And that's the thing also as a physician, I don't like, like I like facts and I like, you know, clinical sort of certainty and things that make sense. But when people come forward with, suggestions that don't make sense and they hold it up as sort of a fountain of youth or this is all you need to do and you'll be fine forever. I think it's just under the guise of medicine. I think it is inappropriate. And part of what I do is try and differentiate the wheat from the chaff. In terms of, you know, I was looking on TikTok or I was looking on some, you know, video and they'll come and ask, you know, is this something I should take? And I'm like, I can't really recommend that because it hasn't been vetted properly. But if you're struggling with X, Y, and Z, let's go through what your day looks like because I can tell you this, after practicing for 25 years, many times, be it cardiovascular disease, pulmonary disease, any big disease process, a lot of it can be traced back to our choices. What does your diet look like? How much alcohol do you drink? That was also something that came out of the pandemic. Are you smoking? All of these things go into the longevity stew. And if you can shine a light on it in such a way with a patient that it's not finger wagging, it's just like, look, let's go for the low-lying fruit. And if we can optimize this part of your life, I bet we can have an impact on some of the things that you're talking about in terms of your interest in longevity.

So question on that. There's this burst of interest in longevity since COVID and I also see that elsewhere. I can corroborate that in different ways. Here's the question though. So interest does not necessarily mean though that people do it. So are they actually, and I know you can't quantify it fully, but to the extent you can tell, is there actually a change in behavior or not really, or it all depends?

It's a good question. I liken it to what happens on the first of the year. January 1st when all of the resolutions come around.

People sign up for gym memberships.

And they sign up for gym memberships, and this is going to be the year I complete my first Ironman, and they, you know, they're really into it. And then by the time sort of Valentine's Day is there, a lot of them fall off the wagon. And I think the challenge is that we are an all-or-nothing kind of society, like either you're going for it 150% or it's not worth doing at all. And medicine is absolutely not like that. So if you look at recommendations that are put out by like the CDC in terms of what exercise means, exercise doesn't mean that you need a $1,000 a month membership at some glitzy gym and you need to go there and you need to be in there for at least 2 2.5 hours a day, or, you know, it's not worth it. If you can get 90 minutes of moderate exercise over the course of a week, you're doing great. So, perfect example, I get questions all the time from clients like, "What's the best exercise to do?" And my answer to that is usually a little snarky. I say, "It's the exercise that you're going to do consistently." Like, there's no magic, you know, exercise other than the fact, like, are you going to do it 3 times a week? Are you going to keep up with it? Then that is the best exercise for you.

What else is important that maybe we haven't touched on yet?

The one thing that I would like to close with is we spend a lot of time trying to help patients or clients. It's hard. I'm a doctor. I can't get the patient out of the vernacular. Help clients understand what is best for them. And my answer is usually a very pragmatic one. You know what's best for you, right? I'm just here to help you guide. I can give you my expert opinion, but it's up to you to implement it. Because a fun fact is that most patients spend much more time outside of any doctor's office than inside of the doctor's office. So you can have two patients that have exactly the same disease, exactly the same doctor, two very different outcomes. And why is that? Did the doctor just fall asleep when they saw patient B? No, it's what happens outside of the doctor's office that can make the difference between a successful patient journey and a challenging one. So really, Nobody cares more about your health and well-being than you do, other than maybe your mother, but it's up to the individual to really buy in to make all of this work.

Yeah, yeah, you can only do so much. You point them in the right direction and then they're on their own. So thank you so much. That was a really edifying conversation. Learned a lot, and I think the, Hopefully listeners appreciate it and learn something new.

Thank you.

Thank you. Uh, my guest was Dr. Kim Henderson. For more podcasts and the latest wealth management news, visit barons.com/advisor. You can also listen to this podcast on iTunes, Spotify, and Amazon, and be sure to check out The Way Forward: Next Generation, a new Barron's Advisor podcast that shines the spotlight on the emerging leaders who are shaping the future of financial advice. For The Way Forward, I'm Greg Bartalus.

This podcast was brought to you by Wells Fargo Advisors. Looking for a firm your clients can't outgrow? Wells Fargo Advisors offers financial advisors full balance sheet solutions with wealth planning, investment products, banking, and lending that meet the needs of affluent to ultra-high net worth clients. Build your practice your way and on your schedule with independent and employee model options designed to meet your needs today and tomorrow. Learn more at joinwfadvisors.com.