Morton Brown: Fueling Organic RIA Growth Through Client-Centric Advice

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Building a thriving advisory firm from the ground up is a significant challenge. Building that firm successfully with a business partner where you have to maintain a strong partnership and clear alignment is even more demanding. Today's guests have done exactly that. Hi everyone, I'm business coach Steve Sandusky for Barron's Advisor, The Way Forward Podcast. My guests today are Dennis Morton and Katie Brown. They're founders of Morton Brown Family Wealth, which is a firm that they launched in 2018 after having worked together for several years at a previous firm. And since then, they've grown the firm from zero to more than $400 million in assets under management. In today's conversation, Dennis and Katie share their intentional approach to creating a financial planning-focused firm from day one. They discuss how they clearly defined their firm's brand DNA early on by building their business in the image of their ideal clients, which they define as people who are leaders, family business owners, and executives who are looking for deeper, more holistic financial planning. Dennis and Katie also dive into how they've balanced their complementary strengths, where Dennis, he has expertise in investment strategy and business development, and Katie tends to focus on financial planning, technology, operations, and compliance. They also share candid insights about lessons learned, including why clear communication, transparency, and optimism have become cornerstones of their culture. And they describe how setting a BHAG of reaching $1 billion in assets under management within 10 years has motivated their team has shaped their strategic decisions and has allowed them to attract and retain top talent. With that, here's my conversation with Dennis Morton and Katie Brown.

I think one of them, from my perspective, was definitely that idea of planning first. So making sure that everything that we did for our clients, and going back to how we were building the firm, building the technology platform, everything with the broader holistic financial plan at the forefront. And with the idea that the portfolio, obviously investments are a huge piece of the financial plan, but they are exactly that, a piece of the plan. So let's start with the experience that clients have on a day-to-day basis, and let's make sure that we are helping them to bring clarity to their financial lives and the things, once again, that, that come up in their daily living. And build the platform around to support that process along the way.

I remember us sitting— this is the visual of us sitting there in a coffee shop trying to figure out what we wanted to be when we grew up. I think we came down with this idea of designing the firm in the image of our clients. And what does that look like? So we went through this whole brand DNA exercise, writing down the words that resonated with us, everything from kind of authenticity to leadership to the type of personality we wanted to have. And it just started clicking. And I think what really worked to Katie's point about being financially planning-driven is that we both cut our teeth in different ways growing up in the industry where Katie cut her teeth doing high-net-worth financial planning. I did more of the business development side. I said, wouldn't it be interesting if we both did our best work on both of these fronts and turned it into kind of the DNA of a firm?

So, you're business partners in the firm. And now that we've got about 7 years behind you in building Morton Brown, has that really played out in the way that you envisioned? So, if you thought about that time at the coffee shop as you're building that brand DNA, has it pretty much developed that way or have there been some pivots along the way to where you are today?

I think it really has. But it's interesting because in launching the firm, we very much, I think, stuck within our kind of historical lanes of the experience that we had as, as we were dividing out the tasks of putting the firm together. So Dennis took more of a leadership role in figuring out the investment process that we're going to use and the strategy strategies we're going to build and how we're going to incorporate those and how we're going to develop business. Whereas I focused more on the financial planning technology platform, how we're going to migrate all the data, a lot of the operational items as well, because that's also a large piece of my background is operations and compliance. But then I think for a period of time, and Dennis, correct me if, if you have a different perspective on this, but I think our roles probably started to overlap and merge together. And just recently we've been putting a lot more work into defining our roles better going forward. So I feel as if we started further spread in our skill sets. We overlapped in a lot of that was to gain an understanding of what one another was doing, making sure that we had consistencies in our processes across all the business functions and the service model offerings. But now we're reaching a point where it's important for us to become specialized again. Does that make sense?

Yeah, I think early on we realized that 1 1 4 or something like that. We were really, it really did work to have us both working together and coherently. And there was a lot of dialogue on that, but you're right. As we take off the proverbial hats, as we grow, it's becoming more specific. And I remember early on we would do our annual offsite and Katie and I would sit down and kind of after action over the year that was and talk about the year to come. And there were some years where I'd sit there and I'd rate my year and I'd be like, I didn't do as much of this stuff that Katie does, or Katie would say, I didn't do much of this stuff that Dennis does. I don't think we feel that way anymore, or it's, there's very little of that. It's almost like we understand that Katie's got that over here. Dennis has got that over there. And as long as we're communicating that effectively to our team, it's really turned into a multiplier.

What you two have done is hard. And what I mean by that is obviously just building any business is hard to start with. But if you start with one person, they get to call all the shots. They get to do things the way they want to. But you guys started as partners. Now, there's some benefits to having a partner, but there's also some drawbacks to that in terms of maybe you don't move quite as fast because now we got to get my partner on board with whatever it is that we want to do. So as you reflect back over the past 7 years, you guys have not only maintained a great, strong partnership as business partners, but you've also built a great business. You've added lots of team members. What would you say are some of the things that you did to grow the business? Were there specific strategies that you did? Were there specific markets that you tried to go into? How did you leverage the experience that you had at the previous firm? How did all that come together to the point where you guys have added hundreds of millions of dollars in assets over the past few years?

Well, I don't know when it started to exist for each of us, but I think eventually during the course of conversation, we realized we were solving a problem. That it wasn't just, oh, we're just going to go and do advice over here the same way we've always been doing advice. We realized that, no, this is an unaddressed issue, something that other firms around the country are trying to address well, which is having a planning-focused firm that does this caliber work for this type of person. And I think the more we realize that it's a problem to solve, that's where we, we set out a big, hairy, audacious goal in 2020 for the team. And I thought that was a great conversation for the two of us to have initially. Because we talked about the numbers and what it would mean to grow and, and all those other things. But then we talked about the qualitative side too. What does it actually mean if we grow from where we were then, $100, $150 million to a billion or more? And it means serving more clients. It means developing a team of professionals and, and what that would feel like. And having that qualitative feeling really started to resonate with us. And I think propelled our energy at the same pace. It, and it still drives us now.

Would you agree, Katie? I definitely agree with that. And I would also add it motivates our team and helps to attract really great team members. Yeah.

And I want to get back to the BHAG here in a moment, but I want to also touch on how did you think about what you did on a daily basis? And my question there is really around, you are trying to build a business. You've got to bring in new clients. You've also got to run a business. You've got to hire people. So, how did you think about the separation between my role as a financial advisor, because you two are great advisors, and so, when you start the business, you are the business, but also, we've got to be business owners and business leaders. So, how has that role of being a great advisor and trying to be a great leader, how has that evolved over time?

I wrote down three things: trust, coffee, and outside voices. In starting the business, there are a million tasks and a million things to be done. And I think both Dennis and I came into this idea with very wide eyes and fully accepting and appreciating that we don't know all the things and we don't have to know all the things. Prior to launching Morton Brown Family Wealth, before the idea was even born, one of the greatest things that we did is we really started to build a really great community inside of the financial industry, and we met some incredible people that have very different jobs from what we do. So whether they focus on marketing or maybe they focused on the things in the background to help the operations run smoothly, or they're compliance attorneys or had very different skill sets. So we walked in saying, let's put together a really great team. And I think for Dennis and I also, The idea of putting together a really great team sounds great on paper, but it's a constant ongoing process. And the two of us really committed early on to setting aside that dedicated time to talk about what is the next step, what is the next thing, evaluating what we are doing, figuring out where to tweak it, what needs to be done. And to this day, we still set aside that strategic time where we get together. At first it was once every week, and now we do it about once every other week. But that has been invaluable to how we have built the business and how we think about setting goals going forward and achieving those goals.

You and I speak a similar language right now, and now the language has started to boomerang back from the team. Those conversations have become part of the culture, and that's really heartening. So it's motivation to keep it up.

And speaking of culture, so you start out, it's the two of you, and today you've got approximately how many team members? We're at 9.

Okay.

How did you think about the culture? Was culture a day one thing? Is culture something that has evolved over time? How intentional were you about the culture? And if you had to use 3 words or 3 short phrases to describe your culture, how would you describe that?

Authentic, open, and caring are the first 3 that just jumped to my mind.

Tell me more about that.

We want people to show up as themselves every day. We want all of the work that they do to hold true to who they are and what they believe in. So that authenticity, I think it's really important. We want to be open to ideas, different perspectives, different visions, challenges. And I think it's important to maintain that safe ground for that openness. And at the end of the day, we really truly care for one another. And I think we enjoy one another's company and that helps to build trust both in and out of the office. Those are the three that just jumped to my mind.

I think I'd add in one that's been really important, especially considering what's happened in the last 7 years, is optimism. I think our team is just inherently optimistic that we can get through anything together. We can help our clients, just that permeates the language and the spirit of what we do. So my words were authentic, intentional, and optimistic. Putting those together for me, it's allowed us to get through the pandemic thriving, any number of challenges, both on the team and outside the team, but it's the optimism has just been boundless for us.

How do you— I'm going to say imbue the organization or infuse the organization with the culture that you just described? Sometimes culture just happens. Every company has a culture, whether they're intentional about it or not. You two are obviously very intentional about it. But how does that show up in the way that you model that, communicate that, hire people who will thrive in the kind of culture that you've created. So how focused and intentional, and what are like some specific things that you do to actually create that kind of culture?

And there's a word that's come up a few times in both the hiring process and actually when people speak about the hiring process after they've been on the team for a little while. It's this idea of transparency that when they came in and we, one, one of our team members said he always remembers We walked into, I don't know which interview it was. We walked in and sat down and said, what would you put up on a billboard if you could? And it just caught him completely off guard. And he said, I just loved that question. You guys gave your answers. I gave mine. It felt very transparent and just easy and flowing. And I think we've tried to do that even with just the design of our office and the way we share stories about ourselves. I think our team knows every backstory that Katie and I have in this profession, and it encourages them to share stories about what they're going through with clients and That storytelling and communication, I think, has really helped the culture to take hold.

I would agree with your optimism also, Dennis, in that we're all human. We all make mistakes on occasion. I'd like to think we set the example both with mistakes that we've made and also wins that we've had. We often share wins in the office. All of our staff meetings, the first thing that we start with is, all right, give us a recent win, both personally and professionally. Because we do want to know what are the things that are getting our employees excited. And when there are challenges, we talk about that too. If for some reason a client decides to leave our firm, we want to have an after-action and say, okay, what could we have done differently? How could we have better supported that family? What are the things we're learning from it? But it's with that undertone also of optimism, like we can make this better and we can serve more people. We can enjoy this throughout the process. So I think. As Dennis said, it, it is transparency too, but it's just sharing the stories and allowing others to share theirs and to learn from one another.

I want to go a little deeper on how you are building the team there, and I know that you two have done some 360 surveys over the years, and you're actively soliciting feedback from your team on about you two and your leadership style and everything related to that. Tell me a little bit more about how you lead the team and perhaps share like a mistake that you made or something that you wish you would have done a little bit better and that you're still learning from.

Probably both go to the same place, Katie.

You think? Mm-hmm. Our remote work policy? Yep.

So a few years—

Okay.

Tell me about it.

No, we, a few years ago coming out of the pandemic, it was those squishy years of late 2021, probably early 2022.. And we decided we've had a very fluid regime when it came to work from home and everything else. And we had office space for everyone, but some people were on different schedules. So why, why don't we just put this down on paper to show what it would be? And of course, we thought about it, overthought about it, and put it down on paper. And when we rolled it out to the team, it landed with a thud and they, they were very polite in reading it through. But then I think fortunately for us, they felt comfortable coming to us one-on-one and saying, this just doesn't sound like us. It doesn't sound like you. It's inconsistent with the rigidity and, and everything else. And it really had us pause to say, we're big believers that language matters. Language matters in the way we communicate to our clients and the words that we write and, and everything else. And especially when we're talking to our team. So we, we stepped back and, and scrapped it. And revisited something that was a lot more consistent with the transparency and values and trust that we had built up on the team. And the result, I think, has been much better than anything we could have codified on a piece of paper. Is that fair to say, Katie?

I would agree with that. But I think the biggest takeaway was the lesson that we learned in the process, the lesson of communicating with the staff, soliciting more feedback, understanding more from them. What would be helpful, beneficial, supportive, and then going to the drawing board. I think we thought we could just figure it out and it would be great for everyone, but we realized that in doing that, there were some unintentional consequences. And it sounds like a small thing, but I think we really, as a team, grew through that process.

I think since then too, we've had a couple of instances, many instances, we'll do a quarterly offsite as a team, and almost every time somebody will present an idea And somebody will, will stop us and say, yes, but if you're trying to get there, that might not work. And I feel like that was one of our early kind of harder epiphanies to say, okay, if you're trying to get to this end state with employee engagement and you do it this way, it might not work that way. So it's given us more trust in them that their feedback really matters because they're seeing the vision that we've planted years down the line just as clearly as we are.

Is there anything else from a leadership standpoint that has been difficult for you guys to learn, or perhaps some success stories of how you've led the organization? Because again, it starts out you two, you've got 9 people now, you've got a fast-growing business, you've got a BHAG out there that we'll talk about here shortly. How do you think about your leadership roles and how that needs to evolve over time as the company continues to grow?

I think continual check-ins. With the staff. I think we do have a really strong culture and I think we have strong relationships, but to always remind ourselves not to take that for granted and to continually check in. I think that we've learned over the years that a strong team can really help to support one another. I think probably different team members at different times have needed some added support for things maybe that are influencing them outside of the workplace and being able to show up and be supportive has been really fantastic and amazing. But it does take work. And I think that work has to start with building those relationships and building that trust so that if somebody says, I need some extra time over here, the rest of the team knows and jumps at the opportunity to pitch in a little extra if needed.

There's another phrase that came to mind, Katie, I think it's been important for our leadership, which is teams that learn together grow together. Like really just talking out loud about what it is that we're learning, the skill sets that we're developing. I think, and that's if there's a theme for 2025, it's that our team came to us and said, we're ready to grow our skill sets almost to a person. They said, we want to be able to do more. We want to learn more about a different function of the business, expand upon our capabilities. And one of our original words that kind of we wanted to define this was curiosity. So if we can make that curiosity part of the culture and learn together, it really helps to solidify our role as leaders because we can be a conduit for some of the great resources that are out there in the business for it to help our team be better.

Speaking of curiosity, Dennis, what are you curious about right now?

It has a lot to do with, for lack of a better term, I'm going to use the word peace. Because when I reflected back on 2024, I think some of the most influential conversations that I had with whether it be clients or members of our team or anything else, it's a sense of unease sometimes that comes up and how to find inner peace because it's not externally driven and it's how do we communicate that and how do we help our young advisors to impart that sense of peace. So I'm reading a book right now from a fiction author who found peace through running and how he draws those two things back together. And I think it's an important part of our role to bring a sense of peace and calm to the people that we work with.. And I think even in our office, sometimes employees or clients, when they come into the office, they're surprised how quiet it is. And I think that's a really important facet of what we do. Sometimes they expect the phone's going to be ringing. It's going to look like a scene from Boiler Room or something like that. And it's not, it's a very peaceful experience. And to the extent we can impart that to clients, not always the case. And so I've been curious about that a little bit recently and how to achieve it in some indirect ways.

Katie, I'm not going to let you off the hook. I'm going to ask you the same question, but I want to follow up with you, Dennis, for a second. So you said you think it's part of your role as an advisor to help impart inner peace for the client. How do you do that? And how important do you think that is as a role of an advisor?

I think it's important, and sometimes it might not sound very peaceful the way we go about it because it can be very direct. To say that you're focused on so many externalities and so many things that are outside of your control. Some of the best conversations we've had with clients recently is after, you know, many years of, of conversation and financial planning meetings, I had a client turn to me last year in the middle of a meeting and say, I realized last month that I have enough, and now I need you to help me figure out what to do with that feeling. And this was him for the first time really turning inward instead of let's talk about all those external things that could happen. And I think it's not something that happens overnight, but it's almost these nudges that we can have as advisors to continue to pull that concentration toward the things that we can control. And the thing that we've really focused on the last few years is our ability to influence. We can't make change happen overnight, but we can influence over time. And I think if we never let go of that responsibility, some pretty amazing things can happen.

So how did you respond to that client who said, I need you to help me with this feeling that I have enough?

Where do I go with that? I immediately turned off the display screen, shut my binder, and said, thank God we're finally talking about the thing we wanted to talk about for any number of years. That was the epiphany. And you could see the weight lifted. You could see the ways. And he said, finally, I'm realizing my kids are going to be okay. My wife and I are going to be okay. But also the hard part is we might need to change our mindset from being the good savers, the good investors, the disciplined people we've been. Maybe spending money now, and that's going to be a transition. Maybe you can help us work through that. I love that conversation, but I think that comes from a sense of peace about where you are in life. And I think it's a good aspiration for all of us.

And this could be a whole nother podcast episode, but this idea of enough, I'd love to get each of your thoughts on this.

What is enough?

Is it a number? Is it a feeling? Is it a mindset? How do you think about, quote, what is enough from a client perspective?

I definitely don't think it's a number. It is a mindset and it goes beyond the dollars and cents into what is going to bring that full life fulfillment. So that fulfillment in relationships, that fulfillment in how you view yourself and your own personal health and how you feel that you are contributing to society and being productive. And I think it's a combination of of all of those things and that you have financial resources to support you living that fulfilled life. And for some people, it may take a very small number to reach that, and for other people, it's going to be a larger number. For some people, there could be a legacy and charitable component and another thing to it as they think about beyond. But I think it's much more holistic, the idea of enough.

And asking you personally, was there an aha moment where you can look back and say, I have enough, or I am enough? For you personally, was there a point where you can really look back and say that?

I think it comes up at different times. I think there are moments when I look up and I am bursting with gratitude in that I am very fortunate to have strong relationships and a loving family and I don't stress about money, and that's not to say that I have a huge pile of it, but it's to say I know that we're going to be okay regardless. And even when it comes to relationships or anything related to myself and how I'm feeling and how I contribute to the world around me, I fully recognize that not everything is perfect all the time, but I think that's part of what makes it as fulfilling and it helps you to appreciate it. I don't know that I can point to a specific moment, but I, I do have kind of those fleeting pop-up thoughts pretty regularly.

There's a saying in the psychology field that if you're a psychologist or therapist, that you can only take someone as far as you have gone yourself. And that's one reason why I was asking that question, because if part of the role of an advisor is to help clients have that sense of inner peace, inner well-being, a feeling that I have enough or I am enough. So, if the advisor isn't there themselves, then it's going to be hard for them to help have that conversation with the client. So, Dennis, let me ask you that. Was there some point in time where you really had that feeling that I do have enough and things are going to be okay?

I would agree with Katie that it's not a number. It's not a financial thing. For me, it had a lot to do with profession. So starting out in the brokerage world and then fighting my way to the independent side, just a lot of ups and downs in my career. Like, I remember 5, 6 years into my career wondering if this was even going to work out, that sense of not so much being enough, but am I who I need to be? And is it— am I fulfilled? And it was really within the last 10 years and probably had a lot to do with some of the conversations that Katie and I had. Starting Morton Brown is realizing that I'd found my voice and was comfortable in being this type of an advisor versus maybe what I'd seen or emulated in the first few years of my career. Once I realized that, then starting a business related to that made all the sense in the world. And I don't think I ever would've done it had I not come to that conclusion and realized that the evolution of my career and family and personal life had all led up to that point where I feel like Yeah, I am enough to be able to try and pull this off. And that was a real meaningful epiphany for me about 8 years ago.

It sounds like confidence is a part of this as well, that you've got the confidence that even if I, quote, don't have enough actual money today to never have to work another day in my life, I've got the confidence to know that whatever I'll need, I'll find a way and just have that confidence level for that.

Yes. Yes. It's funny, in my family, everybody likes to make fun of me because I, if we're headed somewhere, I very rarely know the, sometimes I know the directions to get there, obviously around town I do, but if it's someplace new, like I have to look it up. I'm not super directionally inclined. And my argument for years, my argument for years back to them has been, yes, but I have the confidence I'm going to get there. It'll happen. I'll get there. Even if I don't know what direction I'm going, I know I'm going to get there.

And Dennis can attest to that. Yeah, Dennis, I see you on the screen here.

What are you going to say? I love Katie to have had her land nav challenges before, but it's, no, it's, I think that there's an element and I don't know if it's true of every entrepreneur, but I think it's true of us is that it takes a little bit of a frequently wrong, never in doubt. Like you just have to realize it's going to be messy. It's never going to be perfect. And we're willing to learn along the way and whether it's navigating in a car or taking on this entrepreneurial journey, it's definitely been a confidence builder with doses of humility along the way.

So we were talking about curiosity a little bit ago. So I want to ask you, Katie, what are you curious about today?

I love Dennis's response, and I agree with that completely as far as trying to get to the heart of some of the things that our clients are thinking and feeling. But I'm going to go in a slightly different direction and say I am really curious about what our team today and in the future is capable of. I'm really curious, as Dennis said, almost to a T, every single one of our employees talked about the desire to learn and grow. And some of it was within the job functions they're doing. And some of it was in different directions where they might have showed an interest in going deeper into financial planning, or maybe they don't do that now, or toward marketing or toward other directions.

And I am just So curious to see how we grow and develop here at Morton Brown. And along those lines, ultimately it's going to be up to each individual team member to do the work and to learn and to grow. But how do you two as leaders, what do you do to create the environment or make the resources available to them that they can then take advantage of to grow?

I think one of the interesting conversations we had over the last series of employee reviews was when someone would say, I didn't realize this was a thing. Like, they may have been in a role previously at a financial firm where there were very narrowly defined scopes. He was an advisor or a client service associate, whatever it might be. And they're looking around and saying, there are all these other facets of these jobs that I didn't know existed or could exist within a financial advisory firm. I'd be really interested in that. So I think it's been helpful for us to, again, introduce them to all the things that are happening out there in the broader advisory space, but also look into those gray areas in between the roles and say there might be something there.

I think we give a good amount of autonomy too. So if somebody says they're interested in something, we're fully supportive of them kind of running down that trail, figuring out what they need to learn, figuring out, is there a path here? Is there something? How can I gain some knowledge and experience in this area to see, is this where I really want to go? So I'd like to think we've hopefully give room for that.

Before we look to the future and talk a little bit about this BHAG and how you're going to move forward with that, I want you to look back since the founding of Morton Brown. And the entrepreneurial journey is never easy. There's a lot of highs and there's a lot of lows. What would you say is one or two of the more challenging periods as founders, as entrepreneurs, as leaders What was one of those more challenging periods? What happened? What did you learn from it? And how has that impacted the firm going forward?

The first thing that jumps to my mind is our first SEC audit. Oh, tell me more. So we launched in April of 2018 and we were in some, like a temporary office environment as our current office was being built out. And so we had targeted, we were moving in September of 2018 and we had just started that moving process. We had just finally tied up, I think it was that day we finally finished a conversion of all of our portfolios and we had new portfolio management software and we were just starting to roll it out. And Dennis and I were, were sitting in our temporary office space and like I said, moving like the next week, sitting in our temporary office space and up on my cell phone pops the SEC for an initial audit and nice and just feeling like we've done so much work to get to where we were and there was so much more work to be done. But there are a lot of things then that we are going to have to put on pause as we made sure to answer any inquiries and have all of our ducks in a row and had a very successful initial audit, which was fantastic. We were very happy with some of the things that we prioritized in launching the business. So having an outsourced CFO, having a team of compliance attorneys, having the guidance, I think, in a lot of areas of the business, we focused on that support, that level of support, and it made the process that much smoother. But that was a jarring moment to have that pop up as we felt like we were just getting our feet under us.

Dennis, anything you want to add to that or a different one?

It wasn't so much one event. It was, I remember a feeling maybe 18 months in late 2019. And I think 3 of our first 4 employees had turned over. And I remember when it's 2 of you sitting across the table in a temporary space, starting up a little bit, it has one feel to it. By then we've moved into our larger offices. We had aspirational goals and everything else. And one of the requirements is going to be, can you build a team?. And it was something that, I don't know, Katie, maybe at the previous firm you felt like you'd worked through that before, but I don't feel like I had built a team before in this profession. And I remember wondering, are we, are we doing this right? Can we do this? Are we a place where great people are going to want to come and realize the best version of themselves? And since that time, and correct me if I'm wrong, Katie, we've had zero turnover since then. One retiree. One retiree, which is incredible. Yeah. But, but I remember that being a low point to say, and just to, and I know we talked about it at the time, like, who's the next hire? Who do we bring on? And we've really hit strides since then. So if there was a challenging moment, it was, can we build a team? Can we attract the right people? And we've spent a lot of time and thought on it, and it's worked out incredibly well.

Let's talk about going forward. Let's talk about growth. And growth is something that has been talked about in the industry quite a bit here in the past few years. There isn't a high amount of organic growth. There's certainly some firms that are doing double-digit percentage organic growth, but then there's a lot of firms that are flat when you take out market movement. How do you guys think about the future of the firm, the growth of the firm? You mentioned you have a BHAG. Why did that come about? What's the progress that you're making on that?

How do you think about all that? I think initially it was a skill that we knew we needed to have. We both had some business development background. We knew it was going to be an important part of what we did. There was, of course, the idea of, hey, maybe we'll bring in another advisor, somebody with a book of business or something along those lines. But I think we both agreed that if we look up in 5 years from now or 10 years from now, and we really know how to attract and serve to the best of our abilities, our ideal client, that's never going to go out of style. We'll never regret having built up that skill. I think we really worked hard at that in the first few years, and now it's an engine that keeps on going. I think we, we grew at about a 27% rate last year, 16% of that being just organic, not market related. And we started with $100 million in assets in 2018, and we're north of $400 million now. I really credit that with a mindset to say we're committed to this as the skill that we want to have. And if we can do that, a lot of other things will follow.

I would add to that, going back to the BHAG idea, Steve, I think a couple of things helped to influence or helped to, in my mind anyway, prompt us to put something down on paper, a big, hairy, audacious goal. One of the things was Dennis and I, we were partners for about 10 years. We worked together for about 10 years in a previous firm. And at that previous firm, one of the things that we had struggled with was a clear vision for the future. We struggled as a team to put that clear vision together. And so in launching Morton Brown, Dennis and I were very focused on let's paint the picture, let's keep the team informed, let's make sure we're all moving in the same direction. And so the idea of painting the picture, the vision and the growth and the possibilities and getting buy-in from everybody of what that means across the board. Once again, not just a numbers thing, it means we're serving more families, we're bigger supporters in our community, we're able to invest in our technology in the office environment that we create, and all these great things that go along with the growth. So I think that was a huge contributor to us putting that together. And then also just the benefit of writing it down and talking out loud, the, the goal setting process and how it, it just helps to align and become a filter for all the things that we do.

What is the BHAG that you set? We wanted to be a billion-dollar firm within 10 years. So we set the goal in 2020 and we're ahead of schedule. Now pretty substantially. And we track it with our team at our quarterly offsites. We talk out loud about it. That's what they come back to us about. They say, listen, if being a billion-dollar firm means we're serving so many families, we can't do this this way and continue. So it's just become a great strategic filter for how we make decisions, and which I think we completely underestimated. We just didn't want to wake up 10 years from then and say we didn't, you know, bother with anything or didn't have— weren't intentional about it. And it's really had ripple effects in the way that we run our business and think about it.

One of the difficulties with a BHAG is from an owner perspective, you guys are thrilled about the BHAG. We love to be a billion-dollar firm. We know what that means for us as owners of the business. But sometimes it can be difficult for the owners or leaders of the business to communicate that or translate it to the team in a way that it's as exciting or almost as exciting to them to hit it as it is to you to. So, if it's a numerical goal, like $1 billion in assets, that's nice, but how many people are going to get excited about, "Oh, we hit $1 billion. How does that change my life?" So, how did you guys take the goal like that? And I know it's about serving families too, because you've mentioned that, but is there anything else that you did to make sure that the team was engaged with that and they're excited about that and they're going to celebrate every bit as much as you two when you hit that goal.

I think the biggest thing that we coupled with it is that acknowledgement that it can't just be about the numbers. Dennis and I, we both have children that are still elementary, middle school, high school. Yeah, we wanted to enjoy life along the way and not feel like we missed out, and we want that for our employees as well. So one of the things that we coupled with it was this idea of mini sabbaticals. And so after 5 years of service, 5 years of work, everybody gets to take a 5-week sabbatical and totally disconnect, do whatever it is that, that they would like to do over that 5-week period. And this doesn't take away from their other vacation time during the year, but just the opportunity to be rewarded and to reenergize themselves. So we started rolling that out. We had— Dennis and I have both taken 5-week sabbaticals, and I'd like to think they went very successfully. And we've had one of our employees take hers as well. We have more employees coming up on their 5-year this year and do try to look beyond the numbers and make it exciting from that standpoint. In addition to that, I'd like to think that hopefully we're pretty generous with our employees too. And we try to think outside of the box when it comes to benefit opportunities or volunteering together outside of the office, supporting the causes that are important to them, supporting their ability to volunteer individually and in different ways. And I'd like to think we're building in elements of that quality of life along with the growth goals.

Looking across the profile of the 9 people who are on this team right now, I don't think a lack of growth is benign. I think it's actually a lack of growth is more challenging than having an aggressive goal. Because almost to a person on our team, everyone came from somewhere that was stagnating in one form or another. Like they'd bumped up against the ceiling of whether it's our marketing director saying, I just can't get people to do what I want them to do. And she needed some willing co-conspirators to help do her thing and fortunately found them in us, or our director of financial planning who just didn't have enough opportunity to do the kind of sophisticated planning he wanted to do, expanding the number of households and the kinds of work. It's really invigorating for the team to say, We're growing and we get to participate by actually doing the things that we want to do. I think there's a lot of energy to that and it becomes, again, more about the journey than the destination, but you have to have some destination in mind or you'll end up somewhere else.

What I think I also hear you two saying is that as you've designed the culture, growth is part of that as well because growth creates the opportunities, growth allows you to serve more families, and almost by definition, you're going to be hiring, and you're going to be attracting people who want that anyway. And so they may be attracted by the growth goal, they may be attracted by going from $100 million to a billion, or $400 million to a billion in the next few years, that they're self-selecting for that. So it's not so much a challenge of motivating them for that, they're already in for that because that's what they signed up for. Yes. So Dennis, you mentioned here a moment ago your ideal client. So, I'd love to hear a little bit more about who your ideal client is and has that evolved over time? And the ideal clients that you're thinking about today, are they the same ones that you think are going to get you to $1 billion and beyond in assets?

Yes. And we have thought a lot about this. It's evolved a little bit. In fact, I think it's probably a topic of conversation for the next strategic time. We can start on that now if we want.

We'll just keep the recording. I have my coffee.

Yes, I have my hat. As do I. I think one of the things that's defined an ideal client, and similar to the BHAG, it's not quantitative. If somebody came to us with X number of dollars that would meet some sort of minimum, that's not what we're looking for in doing our best work. It's a qualitative element of the level of complexity, the intention they have behind the planning work that they want done. And you can almost sense it when somebody comes in if they're going to be dismissive of that kind of work or really embrace that. And the community that we live in, and we're in, I don't know what number of states it is now, Katie, but we're spread out pretty well across the country. But probably 60%, 70% of our clients are within a decent driving distance of where we are in Eastern Pennsylvania. It tends to be a lot of closely held businesses, a lot of family businesses, small operations, small, mid-sized operations. And there's a family dynamic, there's liquidity events, there's just levels of complex planning that maybe might be held a little more quietly inside the family. And being able to go in and spark those conversations, get out ahead of them, that's the real kind of work we love to do. And it's becoming more and more a part of what we do. And frankly, the levels of complexity are only ratcheting up. So that's been a really good development. So we're really confident that ideal client is something where the demand is going to continue as things develop for us.

A consistent theme across some of our ideal clients is that they are leaders in their world, whether they are leading a business, whether they are executives at a, a large corporation, whether they're leading the family wealth. There's an element of leadership with a lot of the people, a lot of the families that we work with. And along with that is, I think, in a great leader, you have to appreciate the other professionals around the table as well and appreciate the support that you get through a really strong professional team. And so there's a lot of trust in the type of work that we do and maybe other professionals that we are going to bring forward. And so I think that leadership element is pretty high on the qualitative list of some of the clients and the families that we work best with.

I think Katie makes a really great point about just embracing the role of advisor as leader when it comes to, if there was something that we wanted to recognize from the beginning is that our leadership roles in an advisory capacity or as leaders of the business, they're really simpatico, that they're cut from the same cloth. We really have to show up and be accountable, whether it's to the person sitting across the table from us as a client or a team member. And I know our leadership has grown because of embracing that. We've sought out opportunities to serve in various leadership roles around the community and bring that back to the table. We were hoping that would help because we needed some experience in that regard.

And I think we've really grown in our leadership over the last 7 or 8 years. So as we close here today, if you have a billboard that's at a busy intersection and your audience is the financial profession, what do you want to say on that billboard?

I think it'd be two words: check in. I observe just enough complacency in our industry, and I think there's something in the fee model that may feed into that where we don't need to do necessarily so much to earn revenue anymore, but the demand for what we do, whether it's people trying to find peace, confidence, whatever it might be, or just getting organization together. I've joked with Katie before, sometimes when people walk in, I want them to put their statements in their left hand and their financial plan in their right hand, and, and there's never anything in their right hand. So I think there's an opportunity for advisors to really check into the opportunity to really do great work over the next so many years and decades for, for a population that really needs this.. But it's going to require us stepping forward. To the extent we see it happening around the country, it's just, it's extraordinary work that's being done.

So the words check in really come to mind.

And Katie, you get the final word. Communicate and enjoy. I think opening those lines of communication. So often we work with families and they haven't really had the conversation around what's meaningful to them, where they want to go in their financial lives. Their own big, hairy, audacious goals. They oftentimes, there's not enough communication and sometimes there's not enough communication with the professionals that you need at the table as well. So I think starting with that, and then that can allow you to go forward and, and hopefully enjoy and not stress over the day-to-day as much and live confidently and allowing you to enjoy a fulfilled life.

Dennis and Katie, this has been great.

Thank you. What's the best way for folks to get connected with you two? And I know you guys do some social media stuff and other programs.

So what's the best way to stay in touch?

Sure.

You can check us out on our website at mortonbrownfw.com. We're both on LinkedIn, Katie Brown and Dennis Morton, as well as Morton Brown Family Wealth site. So look forward to connecting with anyone and everyone out there.

All right.

That's all for today.

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