Multigenerational Planning and 'The Most Important Thing to Parents'

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Welcome to The Way Forward Podcast. This is Greg Bartalis. Today, my guest is Valerie Newell, Principal and Senior Wealth Advisor of Mariner in Cincinnati. And today we're going to be speaking about next-gen clients and what advisors need to know. Welcome, Valerie.

Thank you, Greg.

What do you do? What should advisors know? Just tell me a little bit on high level what you think is important.

For serving next-gen, it's really important to have First of all, a strategy to look at certain families that you're working with to determine which families you want to broaden your services out to their next generation. It's not everybody because, you know, you're, you're probably not going to want to do this for the million-dollar client that has 4 children. But for a client that has $5, $10 million, $20 million, you will want to make sure that you're connecting with with their children, with their next generation, to make sure that you can stay— there's a continuity in the service to the family and that you will be the investment advisor when that first generation passes away, so that you won't lose that client or that family client for your firm or for your team.

And now, this is something that happens quite often, right?

I mean— Well, I learned this the hard way a long, long time ago. I was working with a trust a family trust, and I just assumed that the next generation would be working with us because the trust continued. Well, I did not connect with the next generation, and when I did, they had hired a different advisor. And I'll tell you, I was very young when that happened, but I learned that lesson. And from then on, we make it a very, very specific strategy to determine which families we wanna continue with, and then set a strategy to work with them. And really, the families want this. You know, the parents, it's very important to the parents, to that first generation, that they know that their children, that their next generation will be working with somebody that they trust, that they know does a good job, that has their best interest in mind. And so to the families, To have us develop a relationship with their children, with their next generation, gives the parents so much comfort that it solidifies the relationship for the whole family. And really, when you look at the children, they're happy. Most of them are very, very happy to be introduced to, you know, to their parents' investment advisor because most of the times they've heard how great they are, how much they trust them, how much they rely on them. So, for them to to be brought into that circle makes them feel good too. Most people, not everybody.

So if the parents want the next gen to stay, and clearly the firm does, when the younger gen actually leave a firm, why do they typically leave?

Well, I think it's because they haven't had the opportunity to connect with an advisor that they feel is really their advisor. I'm not going to work with the parents and then try also to work with their next generation. What I'll do is I will get another one of my younger partners involved, one of my younger team members involved, for them to be introduced to that next generation. I'll still stay involved at a top level, but the the children of the client feel very connected to their own advisor, not somebody who's gonna be talking to their parents about what they're talking about, or really understand what their issues are and what is important to them, because it's different. So it's just very, very important. They want their own situation.

[Speaker:JOE] Yeah, I mean, you see that in terms of affiliation or niches so often, right? I mean, people tend to cluster or seek those who are similar to them, And it works.

It works. And so you, as a senior team leader, you have to be willing to get that next generation or another partner that's younger than you involved in that relationship. And then there has to be a, you know, you have to work together very closely. And so that's very, very important.

Now, I guess obviously larger firms have the luxury of having sufficient resources to do this and do it well. What about smaller firms? This must be more of a struggle for them, obviously, if they're tiny businesses.

It is. It is. And that's why it's very difficult for a very small firm to be able to do that. A very, very small firm will, with no resources to help the younger generation, is probably not going to be growing that much, or they won't have families of larger wealth where this will even be an opportunity. Usually, if you're a successful firm, you're gonna grow, you're gonna be adding people to your investment advisory pipeline. You know, one thing I think that's very interesting is I find it a challenge with many of our client next generations to get them to focus on investing, to get them to focus on financial planning, because the parents in many of the situations that I'm dealing with I'm working with now, the parents are saying, "This is really important for my son or my daughter to start to understand what the family has. And I want them to start to understand how to work with an investment advisor. I want them to understand, you know, the general aspects of estate planning." And I'll tell you what, sometimes it is so hard to get these younger people to pay attention. They say they want to, but then they just, they won't make the time. They're, you know, they're busy. They're raising kids. They're, you know, moving to a new home. They're, you know, they have fast-paced jobs.

Or they may even think they totally understand it, where like they may have a conceptual, and then, but they clearly don't have it absorbed at all.

I know that that might be the case, but to tell you the truth, I've not run into it yet. I just, these Next generation, it just seems like it's pulling teeth sometimes. And maybe other people have a different experience, but it's just, I find that it's very, very difficult to engage them and get them to understand how important this is, to get them to commit to coming in for a meeting to talk about, you know, the financial planning or budgeting or Investing 101.

And when, when they're is success on this level? Are there any common attributes that you see? I mean, if you were to advise someone on how to do this, and easier said than done, but is there an element of technology or apps or video? Are there any high-level thoughts or it all depends?

Yeah, no, I think that there is. I think it's really a planned strategy on what you're gonna do. And the way I do it is I I'm always the one to bring this up to the parents. I mean, every once in a while a parent will say, hey, this is important to us. But I'm, I'm always saying, okay, what about your next, you know, what about your children? How are you going to get them involved in your wealth? How are you going to let them know how much you have? Because a lot of times, especially in the Midwest, you know, it's not a loud place about money, and a lot of people live much below their means in the Midwest. And so, it's a big important question as to how are you going to let your children know how much money that they're going to have and how are you going to prepare them for being stewards, proper stewards of the money?

And I imagine when is also a critically important question, at what age, right?

Well, that's right, because when you put together this plan, It's in several different pieces, or it's a continuum. So you say, "Okay, how are we going to start to introduce them?" What the parents— you know, it's a question for the parents.

How do you—

what do you feel comfortable with? What do you feel comfortable with them knowing? What do you feel— when do you think it's appropriate? You know, let's talk about the general concept of working with an investment advisor, and then, And 6 months later, let's sit down and talk as a family about just the general amount of money you have. So, it's something that it's usually done step by step, a gradual involvement in understanding more about the family wealth, about their responsibility when their parents pass away, and things like that. So, when we start that conversation with parents, they're always like, oh yeah, you're right, I need to do that. I've been thinking about it. But you know, I just don't know how to do it. Or I just, I never get around to it. Or, and they are so relieved that we're bringing it up, that we're saying, okay, hey, let's put together a plan together. Let's do something that you're comfortable with. Let's do something that's going to work with your children. And they're just, they are so appreciative.

Right, because they've thought about it forever, but they just don't have the fortitude to actually pull the trigger and do it, right?

Well, it's a burden thinking about how am I going to do this and how will they react, and it is so much better when they know they're working with a professional that has experience doing it, that has success in doing it, and just feels like they really do talk to them about what's important.

Yeah, and presumably in addition to the expertise that you bring, the kids might have a certain level of, I don't know, respect more. It's more of a formalized process. It's not just, oh, it's mom or dad saying this. It's like coming in with the imprimatur of the firm.

Oh my God, you're so right. Yeah, you're so right, Greg. It's so— that is very, very important in the process. And that's how I will continue to stay involved, like kind of as the family advisor in setting up this path. And then my next-gen partner will will be involved in the actual basics of sitting down and talking and educating the next generation or dealing with their specific situation.

Interesting. Now, let me ask you this. I'm curious. Let's say you have a client who was raised in modest upbringing, parents high net worth, ultra-high net worth, etc., but they're not really living in opulence per se, but they're doing fine. It's a lot of our clients. I'm sorry?

It's a lot of our clients.

Okay.

They have a lot of money, but they don't live—

Yeah. And now compare it to someone who, you know, lives in a mansion where it's self-evident that this family has a lot of money. In the latter scenario, in let's say the mansion, they would intuitively likely know they have a lot of money because they're living in this environment. So they may not know the details.

Yeah, they're taking private jets everywhere.

Right, but directionally they kind of know, which presumably is a bit different from the former of people, kids growing up in the more modest, but they really don't have a sense like, oh, you know, mom and dad are doing okay at least.

Right.

So there it's a little more telling, not showing, because with the other, they already have a sense. But I assume for both, there are similar challenges despite visible differences too.

Well, there is. And then you have the issue of, you know, the opulent display of wealth and people feel— your next-gen feeling entitled and not willing to a lot of times take on responsibility or having a different feeling about the wealth, a lot of guilt about the wealth. I've dealt with that with families. Like, there's just a lot of guilt at that next generation of living with the wealth, using the wealth. And so that's a whole different issue and a lot of challenges there. But The reason I speak about, you know, what we were talking about a few minutes ago is because most advisors are dealing with people between $1 million and $10 million. I mean, you know, we all have clients that are over that, but the issues are really different. You're right, the ultra, ultra high net worth have— that's a very specific plan that takes a lifetime to unfold. And there's a lot of challenges with that. I mean, there's a lot of challenges with, you know, you send your kids to a private school with a bunch of people that are living very opulent lifestyles. And that is— I have that situation too. And it's very challenging because you're trying to dial the kids back to have them understand, oh, yeah, no, we don't We don't have a billion dollars. We only have $25 million. You know, and what does that entail to give us as a lifestyle? I mean, I've got a client that has a— you know, it's a challenge with his kids.

I imagine it's very much a challenge for a lot of people. I mean, it really speaks, I think, to the value of a dollar, right? And what is— particularly for someone who's younger, maybe hasn't worked or worked much at all, right? And they've had things handed to them. In a way, you know, I think you could be sympathetic on one level because that's the only existence. That's all they know, right? They don't even have any reference points. So you really have to kind of account for that. But with time, hopefully, and with some help, they can—

It's usually easier to actually deal with educating a next generation on how to deal with their wealth when they have less of it.

Ah, because they value it more.

Yeah, they just— or it's just they've been brought up with not thinking that they're hugely wealthy. And the most important thing to families— and there was a survey done years ago on this— the most important thing to parents is to pass on values, you know, to their children. It's not to pass on the money, or it's not, you know, it's to pass on knowledge about the values that they want them to live. And so that's something advisors to keep in mind, because so many times we're just so focused on the money, how are you going to understand how to review your statements, how to work with an investment advisor, how do you work with an estate planning attorney, that we forget that for parents, it's very, very important that their children try to live the same type of lifestyle. I mean, it's not fair in some ways for parents to do that, but I'll tell you what, hands down, most of the parents that I work with, they want their children to have have the same attitude toward the money, toward how they should live their lives that they do.

Right, right. And what's paradoxical is having more money is good, but then at a certain point, right, if it comes very, very high, it's potentially a liability to your point in this.

Well, and then I've, you know, I've asked this question just recently to a client, like, okay, who's going to spend this money? What are you going to do with what do you do with all this money? Because if you, you know, it's either going to go to your children, it's going to go to charity, or it's going to go to the IRS. So, you've got to figure it out. We've got to plan this. We've got to talk about it. And so, it's very, very hard for people to, once you get a lot of money, especially if you go from having a nice amount of money to having a large amount of money, say a sale of a company or, you know, something like that, it's very hard It's hard for people to adjust to that. And most of the time, they really don't. I mean, I know of a client situation that they're not spending anywhere near what they could. And so then you have to say, okay, if you're not going to spend it, we need to talk about who's going to spend it. Because eventually, it's going to get spent.

I know. We wrote a story about that at Barron's Advisor about a lot of clients who aren't even like fabulously wealthy, right? They retire and they certainly can, and the point of the article is they probably should, you know, like, well, what did you say?

Loosen up a little bit.

Right, loosen up a little bit.

Spend the money.

Come on, what's the point? And it's very interesting, and it may be inertia. Some of it may be a sense of like, you never know. So it's kind of, it's coming from a good place.

No, you're right about that.

Yeah, but if you're looking at it objectively, logically, by the numbers, it's very much like, hey, really?

Well, that's all part of a parent's responsibility or first-generation responsibility is like, figuring out, okay, how much is appropriate for you to spend if it's important for you to give some to the next generation or to charity or something. And then you have to figure out, okay, what's left based on what you're thinking. And then you need to adjust your plans. Like, you know, we have a client that we've adjusted plans several times for him just because he still wasn't spending enough money. And so then you're like, okay, well, if you really can't adjust is just your upbringing, you know, 'cause a lot of us are middle-class upbringing. It's hard to get away from that when you have a lot of money. And if they're not going to, then they need to figure out, okay, well, what am I gonna do? Am I gonna give it away to charity? Okay. Or how am I gonna prepare my family to get it?

And when you have that conversation and try to— I guess it's really a process of asking, what do you value most, right? Like, what do you really want? Or digging deeper and deeper, right? 'Cause it seems like they just kind of hit a wall And is that— can you tell me about that process?

Oh, absolutely. You know, they just want to avoid it. They just can't wrap their heads around how much money they have and what that really means as far as, well, okay, maybe I should buy that second house, or maybe I, you know, I should take 4 trips a year instead of 2 trips. You know, and I'm not talking about fabulously wealthy people. I'm talking about just your standard a really successful person, $10 million, $5 million, you know, some cases even $3 million if you've got a lower lifestyle. So, it's just, it's having an advisor and being an advisor that will look at the situation and expand the way you look at the advice you're giving a client and be willing to say to a client, you know, you really could spend more money. And if he says, well, I'm happy doing what I'm doing, Then that's good. Okay, well, then let's talk about where the money is going to go if you don't spend it, because that is something that you need to think about. And so many advisors don't do that.

Why?

Well, I think that they're just super focused on what issues, day-to-day issues, you know, market volatility, you know, client issues. Day-to-day client issues, client problems, client questions, that they don't really see their responsibility to broaden their advice out. And I'll tell you, once you give advice like this or you have that kind of an approach with a client, you got a client for life. They value that kind of honest advice so much.

Interesting, because I was actually I was actually just wondering, just thinking, wondering if it was the opposite, if the advisor shied from going there because it might be uncomfortable. But you're actually saying that the client actually appreciates that.

Well, it is uncomfortable, but the client knows, you know, in most cases, the client knows that they need to do it. And they just needed somebody to say, "Hey," tapping them, keep tapping them. "You need to do this. You need to do this. You need to do this," in a nice way. But I'll tell you, it builds an empathy. Intimacy of the relationship with a client that they so value. And so one of the challenges is running a team and, and me having other people figure out how to do that. That's pretty magic sauce stuff, because in the end, I mean, our client retention rate has been 99% forever. And one of the reasons is that, is developing really close, intimate relationships with your clients. They'll stay with you for life.

And how— for your colleagues, is there a formal process, or is it a combination of just being in meetings with you and absorbing your counsel and wisdom on these things?

And I think it's a lot of everything. It's really connecting, you know, by example. It's connecting by talking about the values of our team culture, about what's important to clients. It's lots of, lots of communication about examples. This is what happened. This is what happened. This is what we did. This is what we did. And so people pick up on it. And, uh, and that's the magic. I mean, you know, for young people, that's pretty inspiring.

Yeah. What trends are you seeing? What are you hearing? Any patterns of behavior or wishes?

I mean— You mean for our next-gen clients or for our next-gen— Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, next-gen clients. And also you could widen the lens more to include other people.

Yeah. So, so what's important to the next generation? Is they're very interested in crypto. Everybody's interested in crypto. And so many people have an investment because, you know, I was on Venmo the other day and you can buy crypto on Venmo. At least you can buy Bitcoin on Venmo. So everybody's kind of interested in that. So I think that an important part of serving a next generation is having is having those kind of conversations in a very open way, in a very educating way, without being demeaning, without being patronizing. And that's where connecting with a younger partner who would do the one-on-one, who won't be viewed as patronizing or demeaning or whatever, to educate. And because a lot of people are like, oh, okay, you know, yeah, I want to buy some crypto. I'm hearing so much about Bitcoin, but they really don't really know about it. So you don't ever want to come off as, you know, the no-no person, you know, Debbie Downer or something. You know, you want to embrace it as, okay, let's talk about it. Let's talk about, you know, why everybody's buying it. You know, what happens when a lot of people want to buy something that's scarce, you know, things like that. So it can be a really, really important way of binding yourself to the client. Right. People want to be educated. They want to understand more, but they don't want to feel bad about it. You know, like, they wanna feel that you're talking to them in a respectful way and that they're really learning. Because if they start to feel like they don't understand things, that just makes them feel bad about everything.

And it might make them not trust you either.

Not trust you or just not wanna talk to you about things that are really important. So, it really does help the relationship to be very, very open about explaining things in a, in a, in a very open, respectful way.

Okay. And anything else besides crypto that's resonating with them?

Well, I, I, my experience is that the next generation that I've run into, they're, they're not, they're not doing a lot in investing. And maybe it's just the kind of clients that I have. Or their next generation are not financial professionals. You know, maybe financial professionals tend to be self-made people. But, you know, obviously, they are more technology savvy. They're more interested or they're more comfortable in just communicating through technology, communicating through text, communicating through a through a video call or just having a meeting on the phone. But I have to tell you that sometimes I will say to them, you know, this is really important and I want you to come into the office, or, you know, we're gonna have a family meeting and we're gonna come into the office, because a lot of times they're like, oh, let's just do it on the phone. And I'm just like, no, no, no, because even though phone is really great and we do a lot of communicating by that, there's a certain magic to sitting in a room with somebody face-to-face and communicating that way. And maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I just see the magic of it. You don't want to do it all the time. You don't want to require people, especially next generation, to be coming into the office. But there is something about— you know, I find that there's times when I have to say, you know, this is really important. "it is really important. I'd like for you to come down," or "we'd like for you to come down." And when it gets to that point, do they typically say, "Okay"?

Yes. Or they typically will then do it?

Yes. Or they'll say, "Well, you know, I can't do it right now, but I'll be available to do it next month," or, you know, "I'll be in town in August," or whatever. And a lot of times, you know what, you have your next generation and they scatter. And it really means a lot to a family if you'll say, or, you know, your next-gen partner will say, "Oh, well, I'm gonna— I'm flying up to Chicago to meet with the client up there, the next-generation client." And then the parents are just so appreciative of that. But from an advisor standpoint, you gotta be very careful because you want to make sure that what you're doing is in the best interest is ultimately gonna be profitable. I mean, you don't wanna be doing all this work if you're not gonna, if the client's not big enough.

Right, and there's also the behavioral dimension. If you take a flight out for this client and they're not really profitable, then they're also gonna get conditioned to like, when are you flying out next? 'Cause then it becomes they're expected. And if you don't, then you're underperforming suddenly.

You're so right. You know, I was just talking to one of our younger advisors last week about this. You've got to make sure that what your service model is for the client matches the client's financial situation. You know, you've got to figure out what they need, and then you've got to make sure that that's what you can deliver. But you don't want to be delivering everything you could do for somebody that has, you know, $1 million versus $10 million. So it is different, and I don't mean to say that you're not serving somebody appropriately, because you have a fiduciary responsibility to do that.

Limited. You have to allocate.

You can't, you can't, uh, get somebody conditioned to a service level that isn't profitable for you because then you're, you're not going to grow, you're not going to stay in business, and you're not going to be able to be their client, their, their investment advisor, because you won't be in business. So I've always been very, very good at figuring out, okay, this level of client, what is the service model that makes sense for them, that makes sense for us, and, and finding a fit.

Right. And communicating that clearly upfront so you're all on the same page and you're like, this is what we're going to do. This is—

Oh, you're so right about that, Greg. Very. Yes.

So I wanted to go back to a point you mentioned that technology, I mean, I, in terms of the internet, now we have free trading and I, it seems that I remember starting with drip investing and starting, I think my first share was Aflac. Um, I guess my point is that the, our sense of time has become so different now. Back then, I think in the '90s, it was easier to be patient, to do buy and hold, and just— but now we're glued to our portfolios. Everything is real time. Everything is free. So there's never been more temptation to trade, frankly, or to do A, B, and C. And it's harder than ever for many people to probably stick to a plan because so many people are influenced, I think, by the news and current events. And now Oh, oil hit $125 and like, let's go rush into commodities, or there's all this. And so many people, I think, probably delude themselves and will say they'll stick to a plan, often if self-directed, and oftentimes they get caught up in wherever the wind is blowing. I don't know, that was more a statement than a question, but I don't know if there's anything—

No, no, no, I think you're right. And from an advisor standpoint, you know, maybe your client doesn't have their own account and they're not trading, but they feel those same temptations, meaning they're like, well, what in the "Uh, what in the world is going on with the price of oil? Should I be doing something? What's my advisor doing?" And you know what? You really have got to stay on top of understanding each client's kind of what they worry about, what they don't worry about. And I have always found that picking up the phone and talking with somebody is just— it makes them feel more comfortable. I mean, in March of 2020, oh my gosh, you know, I was on the phone constantly. But it wasn't because clients was calling were calling me, I was calling them just to check in. How are you feeling? Are you worried? And they would always go, well, what do you think? And then it gives you time to comfort them, to let them know what the strategy is, to let them know what you think is going on, and to calm them down. And so I do think that that is that issue that you just brought up. To tell you the truth, I don't find a lot— getting back to next generation— I don't find a lot of our next generation generation like in that situation where they're— I don't know where those people are, but they're not in our— I know they're out there. And I know that they're trading all the time and they're making a living at it. But I've not run into them.

The past year has been pretty unkind to that.

Well, it has. It has. But I keep waiting for being introduced to a next generation or meeting the next generation that is doing that. I said it before, I think the challenge for most next generation of wealth is trying to get the children involved at all in understanding how important it is. I mean, I have trouble with my own boys. You know, they just, "Oh, well, we'll have an investment advisor." I'm like, "No, you've got to understand what's going on." So, it's a challenge. And I'm just waiting. I would love to have I would love to have, you know, one of my boys, you know, be really interested in it, but it hasn't happened yet.

Well, you know, I have a 14-year-old daughter, and it'd be nice if there was more of an interest, but it's whatever it is.

I know, and you want to encourage it, but you certainly don't want to encourage day trading, although some people can make money on it.

Yeah, I mean, I think also that there is an argument to be said that even if it's day trading, and even if you lose a lot of money or any amount, a good argument could be made they're at least tiptoeing into the whole matrix of the financial system and investing world. So at least they're getting a taste of it, and hopefully they learn a lesson with smaller dollars. But I don't know.

Oh, I agree. I think it's a good idea. And in fact, we've got one client family that we are working with the son who is starting to do that. He— we've talked about day trading, and he's, you know, he understands that maybe that's not something that he could be adept at at this point. But we are starting that educational process, and by kind of embracing Pacing what he's doing and helping. So this is an interesting thing. His mother and the son, they have selected certain educational seminars that you can do, like a lot of companies like Vanguard, Schwab, and all the big companies, Morningstar, they have these educational seminars that they do online. Well, the mother and the son have actually been doing this together. Like, they listen to it and then they talk about it.

Wow, that's great.

And that is just such a great, great approach.

That's fantastic. That's amazing. You can even hit pause, like, "Wait, go back 15 seconds. Listen to this part." Yes, exactly.

Or if you can't listen to it together, to both listen to it and then have a time where you talk about it, you know, questions and how are you gonna take that information information and put it to use. I think it's a great, great thing. This client is super smart about that kind of stuff. And we did suggest it. And we gave them the ideas on where they could go for the information. But that's something that is fun.

Yeah, absolutely.

That would be fun. I'm still trying to get my boys to agree to it.

Yeah, well, hopefully in time. Would you mind talking about investing for a little bit, about where you might see value or anything on that level?

It is changing a lot. You know, growth stocks now have been in a little bit of a funk, you know, since November. What we have found, what I've found is the best approach is to have a portfolio that really is going to be successful for all seasons. And so it is to have a mixture of dividend-growing stocks, to have some cyclical stocks that will do well, you know, You know, the economy is doing well right now, so that, that's a good area. And then to have those growth stocks that are going to do well no matter what. Now, interest rates are very interesting now, and we are being very careful about keeping our maturities and our bonds very short. And we're also making sure that for certain clients, we've actually added some Treasuries to their portfolios, and these are probably larger, larger clients who want that sense of, boy, if everything goes to hell and back, where do people flock? They flock to the US dollar and to the Treasury market. And so several of my larger wealthy clients or ultra-wealthy clients have been very appreciative of the suggestion that part of their bond portfolio be Treasuries. And so, that's the most concerned. And they know they're not gonna make a lot of money, but that is the go-to-hell money, you know, that's there no matter what. So, those are just some of the things that we're looking for clients. And the other thing is just making sure that they have a nice amount of cash. Believe it or not, most of our clients, they like to have cash.

It's the sleep-it-well money, right?

Yes.

Like, I know inflation is this, I understand that, but I want— it's peace of mind, and it's hard to put a price on that. It transcends dollars and cents.

Well, back in March of 2020, what clients cared about is that, you know, we let cash float up, uh, quite a bit, and that was comforting to them. They wanted to hold that cash. And so that's the other thing I think advisors need to be very careful about, how they look at cash and understand the psychological aspects of that with Right, exactly.

I mean, if they're miserable and they make, you know, a tiny bit more, is it really worth it, right? You have to find that balance.

Yeah, the other issue is that there's been a lot of volatility up and down, but we've had a really, really good 3 years. I mean, the returns in the portfolios are really good. And just to remind clients of that and to be making sure that the asset allocations are what makes sense for the client, I think that's our focus.

Okay, that makes sense. And lastly, in the Barron's tradition of asking for an actionable idea, is there anything topical? You've already offered many during this conversation, so if there aren't any, I understand that, but is there anything that—

Yeah, I would say for advisors, you know, a lot of the ways that advisors are compensated don't really give them an incentive to work with other advisors, you know, in their firm or in their location. And so I would say that it's important for advisors to look long-term at what is the good for the client, you know, and to get other advisors involved even though it might not be additional compensation for them individually. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah, that's truly looking at what's best for the client.

Okay, great.

But the more successful firms, they're building incentives into the way they pay people because they know that this is right. You don't want to lose a client just because there's a generational change or shift.

Is it lack of awareness or inertia that keeps some from not doing this?

I think it's lack of awareness. I think that it's not truly understanding what you are really incentivizing people to do. Because it's hard. It's a hard problem to address. How do you build a compensation plan that will do all this stuff? Sometimes you can't do it. Sometimes you just look at somebody and say, you have to do it because it's the right thing to do. But a lot of investment advisors, they're pretty self-focused. You know, most of us are self-made.

Really good piece of advice. Thank you very much for sharing that and for joining today. Thank you, Valerie.

Well, thank you, Greg.

My guest was Valerie Newell of Mariner Wealth Advisors. For more advisor-specific podcasts, please check out Barrons.com/podcast. For The Way Forward, I'm Greg Bartolis.

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