Nayan Ranchhod: How Couples Are Thinking About Money and Retirement

This podcast is brought to you by Wells Fargo Advisors. Looking for a firm your clients can't outgrow? Wells Fargo Advisors offers financial advisors full balance sheet solutions with wealth planning, investment products, banking, and lending that meet the needs of affluent to ultra-high net worth clients. Build your practice your way and on your schedule with independent and employee model options designed to meet your needs today and tomorrow. Learn more at joinwfadvisors.com.

Hello and welcome to Barron's The Way Forward. I'm Greg Bartolis, and my special guest today is Nayan Ranchod, Ameriprise Private Wealth Advisor and CEO of Silver Lining Wealth Advisors in Scottsdale, Arizona. Today he'll be sharing insights about how couples are planning for retirement. Welcome to the podcast, Nayan.

Greg, thank you so much. I'm grateful to be here and super excited.

Excellent. Well, before we jump into the topic, tell us a little bit about yourself and what you're up to.

Yeah. So I'm originally from Oklahoma, born and raised. I went to school at BU, Boston University, for those of you that aren't familiar. And I am a first-generation American. My mother's from India. My father's from Zimbabwe. Came into the financial industry back in 2006. Started there, started my practice from scratch, and then slowly, you know, just moved up from the, from the ground up and now I'm running an amazing team, Silver Lining Wealth, as you said. And I've got some amazing people that I work with.

And tell me about your journey from, you know, where, how you ended up in Arizona.

Yeah, that's a great question. I actually flipped two coins. Number one was flipping of the coin that was gonna be law school or not. And obviously that came up tails. And then the second one was between Dallas and, in Arizona. And, you know, my parents living in Oklahoma, I wanted to be far enough away, but not too far away. And, you know, went out there, had an amazing opportunity with a really core group of managers and leaders and used that as an opportunity to flip another coin. And then it came up heads and that's what was Scottsdale, Arizona.

I have a question about the coin flipping now. Did you know you were gonna flip a coin to make this decision, or did you flip a coin to determine if you would flip a coin?

That's a great question. Yeah, no, you know, I flipped it. It worked once by not going to law school. So I figured, hey, why not do it again?

All right, sounds good. All right, so now in addition to coin flipping, we're here to talk about a recent Ameriprise study called Couples, Money, and Retirement. It surveyed more than 1,500 American couples between the ages of 45 to 70. And you can take the ball from here. Let's start with high-level takeaways.

Yeah, I mean, so one of the things that I would say is that the largest impact that we could have is having open, transparent conversations when it comes to money and couples. You know, no surprise to us that having a financial advisor puts you on a better path to success. And so, you know, I would say that's probably the biggest thing is is being able to be a facilitator of conversations between couples and helping them reach their goals.

One aspect of the study that I found interesting is that the couples have a lot of shared goals, but it's really the details where you'll see a divergence. Tell me more about that.

Yeah, so, you know, everybody looks at money in a different way and, you know, I'll use my wife and I. So I'm, you know, son of an immigrant. My wife comes from a family, single mom. She raised 2 kids and, you know, I understood leverage. Small business owner family. They owned one little motel. Now they own 22 hotels and resorts across the world. I understood debt. Then my wife, you know, her mom was cash and carry. And so we had very different views of money and how money was actually a tool to reaching our goals. And in our conversations, she always wondered, well, hey, why would you put that on a credit card? Why wouldn't you just use cash? And so helping her understand that concept and being able to then have a more constructive conversation has led to our relationship growing in ways that, you know, money is not an issue.

Interesting. So obviously, given what you do, you bring expertise to the table, but you're still trying to bridge the gap, however that gap manifests itself. So you're finding more common ground. Tell me about how the advisor works with clients in this realm and kind of has everyone on the same page or tries to.

Yeah. So one of the things that we try to do is we always try to make sure that we've got both husband and wife, you know, or partners or spouses, you know, in the room at the same time to have a conversation. So we start with goal development. It really starts there. And we give everybody the, you know, we create a safe place. So everybody feels comfortable enough to be able to have those intimate conversations about, you know, how do they view money? So I start with questions about, hey, tell me a little bit about your past. You know, tell me about what your childhood was like. Tell me about your family. You know, tell me about, How do you make financial decision-making decisions? And so those were some of the things that we start with and we start to uncover that people do look at money differently. And that's very helpful because it's in a non-threatening environment and allows us to build a lot of trust in a short period of time. It also gives each person a voice in the conversation because I think a lot of times what ends up happening is you typically have a decision maker when it comes to finances, you know, that there's an alpha and a beta, but allowing for the beta to feel comfortable in that conversation so they have a voice and they have a direction of what they may want to see.

Do you ever find that in couples there's a kind of inadvertent discovery where they're sharing their views and then one looks at the other and says, really, you believe that? Or—

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I use my wife. I don't talk a lot about, you know, client situations without talking to them first, but I'll use a real-life example that literally just happened in the last 6 weeks. So, you know, we've owned a home for a couple of years. My wife wanted to do a backyard remodel and you know, it's a sizable remodel with some changes that we're gonna make. And real quickly, what I did was is I took our youngest daughter to a car dealership and I took a picture in front of one of these sports cars with, you know, 2 seats in it. Look, I've got 3 kids plus a wife. It's not meant for me. I sent it to her and one of the things she said was, is, did you buy it? Now, I would never have bought that car without talking to her first about it. Right. And I will tell you, within a week, we had 2 appointments with contractors on the calendar and it was very motivating. It was something that she really wants to do but didn't, didn't feel comfortable enough to take that step. And, you know, I'm still learning and I learned, wow, okay, so this is how I can help motivate her to go get what she wants. And that's something that she really wants to do.

And that changes over time, too. You said there's that potential disconnect. And then again, over time it's going to be a moving target too.

Yeah, absolutely. I think when you have got a really strong relationship and you've got similar values, similar morals, and you're looking at how do we spend our money, sometimes it doesn't just come naturally. And out of respect, you don't always talk about what is it that you want. Right. You know, sometimes it's more about what do you need, you know? So, so I think what ends up happening is you allow yourself to move forward into those wants and having those discussions. And we do that every meeting, you know, and having those conversations with clients like, tell me what you want. Paint me a picture of what, what life would you like to have?

And to that point of painting a picture, can you paint for the listeners a picture of some of those examples of conversations or trends, anything to bring it to life more?

Yeah. So, you know, some of the times it's, you know, whether it's vacations, right? So everybody vacations very differently. You know, I'm a— I like to get immersed in the culture if we're gonna go somewhere. Jenny loves to go to museums and see the historical sites. You know, her and I joke about it all the time and where it's, hey, you know, if I can buy it on a postcard, I don't need to go see it because I don't need to take a picture of it on my iPhone, right? So I think those are some of the conversations, right? Whether it's domestic or if it's an international trip. And then, you know, when we're talking about, you know, some of the home things, right? So, you know, whether it's a bathroom remodel or, you know, what is it that you want that we're looking for over the course of the next 6, 9, 12 months, right? Then we can come up with a game plan on how we're going to try to accomplish all of those things.

One thing that struck me in the Ameriprise report was the large extent to which couples agree on when to retire. It was like 87%. So, okay, at first blush, everything's everything's on the same page, but then there's generally a difference where it's staggered and at different times. Tell me about that, the staggering and how much all of that is expected for both parties, how much of it is left to serendipity, chance, et cetera.

Yeah, so that's a great question. I think we all hope that in a perfect world, right, we've got congruency. So whether it's two people are 55 years old and they're retiring at the same time, I think that's a perfect this moment. But I think a lot of times what ends up happening is it comes down to the person's why, you know? So some people will stagger it out, whether it be for, you know, ages, because, you know, people are born at different times. Some people will stagger it out because they still feel like they're, they're living their purpose. You know, I know my parents, so there's a 13-year gap between my parents. My mom is going to retire and she'll be 65, and my father is going to be 77, 78, and he's going to continue to work, not because he has to, but because he wants So I think a lot of that staggering occurs because people want to do something where they feel like they're making an impact in the world in some way, shape, or form. So we always, when we're having these discussions with clients, we always ask, if you could be financially independent, right? Where, God forbid something happened, right? Because it could be something medical that could occur. Could we make sure that you were going to be okay moving forward? So I think that's some of the staggering that occurs because life just evolves.

Yes. And I was going to ask you about that unexpected worst-case scenario. By definition, because it is unexpected and you can't— you can plan for it directionally, but with limited specificity. So in terms of brass tacks dollars, is that kind of— do you provide a buffer, a cash cushion of say 5%, 10% for whatever that black swan event might be, if you will?

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

So the conversation with clients, we break it down into 3 buckets of life. Okay. Bucket number 1 is things that you can control. Bucket number 2 is things that you can influence. And bucket number 3 is things that you can't control or influence. And so what we try to do is, is when we're, when we're creating a plan for clients, we try to take a lot of those things that are in bucket number 3 and we try to take them off the table. Um, so we're having those discussions, you know, what we'll do is, is we'll build in, um, you know, some changes and, and, and we'll make sure that, you know, I jokingly call it doomsday prepping, just in case it happens, right? I mean, we build some of those factors in there so that we're not always trying to plan perfectly. And then by having, you know, a consistent conversation with the client. So we typically meet, you know, twice a year hard stops with clients, but usually we're talking to clients anywhere from, you know, 5 to 7 times per year. You know, that's when we'll say, okay, well, hey, tell me about that vacation that you want. So we flip the script, right? By planning for the worst-case scenario, we then are able to elevate their return on life, right? So their current life, my favorite thing to do right now is that, you know, we've been accelerating a lot of travel, you know, coming out of 2020 and, you know, the travel restrictions that were imposed, you know, a lot of clients are sitting there and, you know, we're saying, yeah, let's go take that trip. Let's go do this, right? Let's go do that. Because, you know, the true only currency that we have in life is time. And in understanding that and how precious that is, I think is a big thing to making sure that, you know, we're balancing both the future and the current.

And in addition to accelerating travel plans, what are other things that you're hearing more of from clients?

Yeah, so we've seen some acceleration of whether grandparents taking grandchildren on vacations or creating memories in the current world, right? So there's this barbell approach that we're starting to see right now. We've got some clients who are saying, hey, I'd love to build a nest egg for the future generation. And then I've got some that said, hey, look, We're thinking about spending through the money, but we want to create those relationships and create that brand within the family now while we're still alive and experience that with them.

Tell me now about the role of, on an emotional level, in addition to the financial planning, of providing reassurance and feeling a sense of control that they really believe in this plan and they're not just nodding their head and saying, "I think this makes sense," but getting that full-on conviction.

Yeah. I think the conviction comes comes from the genuine, authentic conversation with the advisor. I think it's having those tough discussions, right? You know, sometimes our conversations are not very fun. You know, whether it's an illness within the family, you know, hearing about conversations about family members having dementia or Alzheimer's, right? And having those and then saying, okay, well, how would this potentially impact you? Not in that moment, but having open and active listening skills to then put that information down so that we can revisit it in in the future when things are less emotionally charged. So, so I think a lot of that has to do with having that genuine and authentic conversation.

In terms of difficult conversations, tell me about situations in which you recommend a course of action and one party agrees, the other doesn't. How do you navigate things like that?

Yeah, that, that's a great question, right? So I, I think what we look at is, is one comes to mind. It was early in my career And I had a husband and wife and they had a child and the husband believed in insurance and understood the need for insurance. The wife was anti-insurance and at the risk of ruining the relationship, I backed off. And what ended up happening is, is 2 years later, the client ended up, the wife ended up passing away at 40 of colon cancer right after giving birth to their second child. And because of my fear, of ruining the relationship or creating a negative outcome. I didn't push. And when I say push, I'm not talking about the product or anything like that. I'm talking about the genuine care that you have for those clients, right? And sometimes, you know, helping them reframe what they may not think is urgent and important, maybe something they want to take a look at in the future. Now, good news is, is that they were really good savers and the family is doing great. But I always go back back to that moment. Anytime I feel like there's a conversation where one client may, you know, want to do something and the other one may be a little hesitant. So I try to find that bridge and really try to dig deep into the why behind what is it that's causing you to think this way.

Okay. And now given that retirement is very emotionally charged and heavy topic, because it is so, you know, important, obviously, again, in reassuring clients that they're doing the right thing Do you have any other insights about ways to win trust? Because you're this person that on some level they don't know the advisor and then like you're gonna tell me what to do, just a lot of money hopefully. And this big decision, in addition to being genuine and establishing an honest rapport and anything else.

Yeah. You know, I think, Reg, you know, I think about myself at 21 years old asking complete strangers to give me their trust and their money. And, I think what we look at is leveraging your resources, right? So, you know, before anybody is willing to do business with you, they have to like who you are first. So I think being able to communicate effectively, be an open listener, reflect what are they saying back, you know, so that you can make sure that you're on the same page. I think that piece of the reflection and seeking to understand, we've gotten away from. Um, you know, as I've grown in my career, I look at the conversations that I think are most effective and the things that— the ones that are not. And it's that reflection and that seeking to understand piece that I think separates, um, good advisors, you know, great advisors from good advisors, to say the least.

And, and is that a skill that those who are not great at it can learn and improve upon?

Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, you know, we work on it on a day-in-and-day-out basis with our team, and, and I think it starts with the internal communication. Uh, we all view the world from our our own lens, you know, our own background, our own stories. And I tell the team that every day that we've gotta look at it from, you know, the other person's perspective and then back into it and understand, well, why are they saying this? And then making sure, okay, hey, am I understanding clearly what you're saying to me? 'Cause a lot of the times it's not.

Right, right. So yeah, make sure you're on the same page and don't, yeah, don't assume anything.

Yeah, absolutely. I call it my 4-year-old. You know, my 4-year-old's got this amazing way to, just keep asking questions, and I take it from her right now.

Okay, well, wisdom manifests itself everywhere, right?

Absolutely.

Okay, now let's talk about the procrastinators, which is especially something manifest with important big topics. A lot of people just delay, delay, delay. How do you kind of navigate that to get people to finally act without using too heavy a hand or not? You know, tell me about that and also helping them find compromise and common ground in the context of foot-dragging.

Yeah, so I believe that people are doing the best they can with the current thinking they have, right? So what I try to understand is if they're procrastinating, you know, there's no real job called procrastinating. It's just, I don't wanna do that because I don't like it, right? You know, I procrastinated going to the gym because, you know, I just didn't wanna do it. There was something mentally and emotionally that was making me feel uncomfortable at the early stages of going and working out. So what we try to do is, you know, when we're going through that conversation, it's asking, well, what is it or why? Why have you been putting this off? And what it typically comes down to is everybody has a preconceived notion of what we do and they think I'm going to take their fun money away, right? I mean, would you want to go to a doctor if they were always just going to tell you, hey, you got to eat healthier and you got to do more exercise, drink more water, get more sleep, right? I mean, we hear the same things over and over again. So what we try to do is understand, well, what is it that you're putting off, right? I mean, what is that What's the fun thing that you really, really want to do that you haven't felt comfortable talking about? And then let's get a path to both, right? Because if we start early and often, you can have both, right? And it's understanding that and then making them feel confident in, I'm not trying to take their fun money away. You know, that's the big thing.

Right. And do you, in these conversations, weave in the aspect of time being so precious as you mentioned and the unexpected nature of life simply as well?

Absolutely. Absolutely. Right. I mean, you know, my goal with clients is not, for me to be the end-all be-all, right? It's them, right? They're the board of directors. We become their CFO. It's our job to come up with ideas on how they can increase their return on life. I mean, that's really what we talk about is what does that return on life look like to you? So making sure that we've got that at the forefront of their thoughts as we're having these discussions.

Yeah, and really encouraging them to be proactive, to be active participants in the process.

Absolutely, absolutely. And just understanding that it's a two-way street, right? Don't wait until your meetings to reach out to us about anything great or positive that happens or anything that negative happens. I don't want to be the proverbial dentist. I don't know about you, Greg, but I do not like going to the dentist. I don't know why, but it just makes me feel uncomfortable.

You're not alone. Yep. Yep. And then lastly, I just want to ask, I mean, obviously they know retirement, what it represents, the end, but do you try to kind of underscore the point that for most they're going to have one shot. So you want to get it right, not to be taken lightly.

I mean, yeah, absolutely. You know, when we're talking about retirement, we don't make it a finish line. I think that's a tough thing for people to get their mind around, right? I mean, you know, to the 98-year-old client, you know, when we're talking about the continuum of time, tomorrow is a long ways away, right? But to the 20-year-old, you know, it's not, right? I mean, so when we're looking at What does that finish line look like? We look at the journey. You know, what does your life look like? What are you doing? Where do you see yourself 5 years from now? Where are you spending more time? Who are you spending that time with? Why are you spending that time with them? And really looking at it from, you know, holistically, not just from dollars and cents. You know, we've all got the tools and the data to be able to talk about those data points. It's really about the picture piece in their mind.

Right. And almost reverse engineering it. Really, what's the destination? And then let's create that roadmap. Absolutely. Point A, B, C, how do we get there? And to the extent they can be specific with that division, you can plan all the better for it.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think we take it for granted being in the advisor role sometimes that, you know, for example, we bought 27 homes in the last 6 months, you know, not me personally, but within the practice, for example. I mean, you know, or my favorite thing to do is, is learn from other clients on how they they've parented and, and watch those things. And so watching kids grow through college, I mean, I, I've seen more kids go through college and, and I don't even have college, you know, age kids yet. Right. I mean, I think there's a lot of value there and, and being able to help them understand from other stories that, that you've seen. So you're not speaking at them, you're speaking with them, you know, as a trusted friend.

Right. And as you do this job more, you're accumulating more wisdom, you're hearing more stories and that informs you better and helps you bring more to the table.

Yeah. I mean, it's, it gives you a lot more gratitude. Dude, for all the good things that are out there, right? It's, there's the other side of the coin for everything bad that's out there, right? I mean, we tend to take it personally when we've got a client that we find out is ill or we find out that is passed away unexpectedly. I mean, those things weigh on you and you learn how to guide and guide people through those traumatic experiences and help them understand that there is light at the end of the light at the end of the tunnel. So I always just say that my goal is to try to be an information resource broker when it comes to different scenarios and different things so that they can make an empowered, informed decision.

Excellent. Well, we're just about out of time, so I want to thank you for joining.

I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on. I was super excited when I got the invitation. With this deck that came out and the study that recently came out, I think Ameriprise is doing a great job in informing people and trying to keep the conversation current with a population that is in the process of getting married, having kids. I mean, for the first time since the '80s, right? I mean, the population, two-thirds of the population is below the age of 50. I mean, there's a lot of opportunity to help the younger part of the population as they go through this process and then also help those that are, that are getting to that retirement goal be able to help transition confidently.

Excellent. Well, thank you so much for joining. My guest has been Nayan Ranchod. For more podcasts and the latest wealth management news, visit barons.com/advisor. For The Way Forward, I'm Greg Bartolis.

This podcast was brought to you by Wells Fargo Advisors. Looking for a firm your clients can't outgrow? Wells Fargo Advisors offers financial advisors full balance sheet solutions with wealth planning, investment products, of banking and lending that meet the needs of affluent to ultra-high net worth clients. Build your practice your way and on your schedule with independent and employee model options designed to meet your needs today and tomorrow. Learn more at joinwfadvisors.com.