Vern Oakley, a filmmaker and CEO, explains how video shapes corporate culture and leadership. He cites United Airlines' $1 billion loss from a single video mishap, argues that C-suite sponsorship is essential, and recommends 2-3 minute videos that strip jargon and focus on values to humanize leaders.
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Hello again, everyone, and welcome to today's Conference Board pop-up webcast. I'm Tim Peter, Program Director for the Digital Strategy and Enterprise Digital Transformation Councils here at the Conference Board, and I am joined by my co-director, Mike Moran. Our guest today is Vern Oakley, a veteran filmmaker, speaker, industry thought leader, and author of Leadership in Focus. Vern Oakley is CEO and Creative Director of Tribe Pictures, which he founded in 1986.
Hi, everyone.
Vern has created films for Fortune 500 companies, nonprofit organizations, universities, and their leaders, including American Express, AT&T, Pfizer, Princeton, and NYU Law. His mission is to help humanize the world's most successful leaders and institutions, helping them to craft their stories and to create meaningful human connections. To this end, he has studied with a variety of experts and institutions, from Arthur Penn and the Actors Studio To Harvard Business School. To learn more, visit verneokley.com. During our discussion, you can use Adobe Connect to ask questions by typing into the chat box at the bottom of your screen, and we will select a few questions for Vern at the end of our discussion. So again, Vern, thanks so much for joining us today. Where should a company start if they want to use video to impact their company's culture?
Well, culture, I think, as we all know, starts at the top. So it is a matter of getting the C-suite buy-in to using video, and understanding that, and making the case for why video is so important, and why it's become the preferred choice of people in terms of communication. So I do think you've got to start right at the top.
Great. So when you talk about starting at the top, one of the things that I've heard people say is how executive sponsorship really can help break down silos. Do you find that to be true in your world? And if so, how can people make that happen within their organizations?
I think it's helping people to understand why video is such an important and powerful tool. And you're absolutely right, it does break down silos. And we do a lot of talking about how you really need to communicate a comp— in order to be a high— to build a high-performance culture, you need to communicate across all the different departments. You know, the executive leadership, human resources, investor relations, the labs, research and development. All of those need to be being given the same messages and helping each other understand how it all fits together. And video is very good because it really speaks at a very high level.
Now, you talked about helping people understand the value of video and the like. To that end, how can videos best be used both to convey that value to senior leadership and then, of course, for the benefit of the organization as a whole?
Well, I think it's important to look at outcomes. And so I had a friend of mine who worked at a company, and she was complaining to me that her company didn't have as much of a high profile as some of the other people that we would, or companies we would talk about like Google or Apple. And I said, well, if you look at those 2 companies, they are consistently communicating in video. So they are bringing their story over and over and over again in a variety of ways. And it is that consistency over a period of time With a video strategy where you have the kind of messages where people understand who you are and what you stand for.
Right, so it's about values as much as it is the content itself, right? I mean, you're trying to convey the values first and foremost. Is that a fair statement?
I think it's a fair statement. And, you know, we like to back up just a little bit. And, you know, this is something my grandfather taught me because, you know, I grew up on a farm in Oklahoma, is that people do business with people. So when I am talking to somebody, you know, at American Express, one of our clients, or BASF, one of our clients, I'm dealing with a particular person and they're dealing with me. And we enjoy each other. And that person is representing the brand, representing the values, representing the way people do business with that. And you could just see that, you know, when you think about United Airlines and the debacle they're going through right now.
Right, right. Well, it is interesting, right? I've heard people talk about how their social media team, for instance, has done a poor job or the like. But I think you see the same thing with the CEO, right? I mean, so clearly that is somewhat flowing from the top, isn't it?
Well, you know, I just think that he didn't come out on video. He didn't apologize. He didn't really talk about the culture. And, you know, it's funny. I got back from a board meeting, an organization I belong to in Barcelona. I flew there on United, and right there in the magazine was a one-page. This is our value. These are our purposes. And I'm reading that, and I'm going like, you know, there's nothing about dragging people off a plane. So, but even, you know, if you look at it in a positive sense, they talk about treating people fairly, and they weren't living their values. And so when you're talking about building a culture, people have to have values that actually are meaningful and not just, Right.
Right. No, that makes a lot of sense. You know, when you think about video specifically, I mean, video— here we are, we're doing video right now, and obviously it's better than just being on a phone call, or it's better than just being in email and things, because we're having sort of a face-to-face dialogue, right? Is it helpful to have video in a training program? More revealing, right? I mean, is video more revealing when we talk about culture? It's kind of hard to lie to somebody face-to-face. When you put something on one sheet in a magazine, that's one thing. But if we're having this conversation face-to-face, that's a little tougher for me to act out of character than what we said our values were. Is that—
You're 100% correct, because I believe video reveals truth at 30 frames a second.
That's a great line. I'm sorry, go ahead.
Well, going back to United for just one second, United lost almost $1 billion in shareholder value because of one video. It's my conjecture if that hadn't been videotaped, they wouldn't have lost that kind of thing. It would have been put over to the side. It would have been a smaller news item. But we all respond to video in such an emotional, in visceral way that it makes us want to do something. It makes us want to act. It makes us want to complain. It makes us want to enlist. It makes us want to raise our hand. It makes us want to march. And so video has that power to connect with us in just such a gut-level way that's very different than a PowerPoint or an email or so many other mediums.
This is probably a good place to talk about this. In your book, You talk about 3 ROIs. We know what return on investment means, but can you tell us more about return on inspiration and return on imagination?
Well, one of the things that— the premise of the book is that in today's leadership style, leaders need to be authentic. They need to speak truthfully and honestly. And that needs to translate into their ability to do that on camera, because most people won't ever meet the leaders of these large companies that we're talking about. So they will be making their choices about the leader's truthfulness and what they're talking about by seeing them on camera. So that skill to communicate in that way is a requirement for today's leaders. So when you start to think about return and inspiration, You know, one of our clients just purchased another company. So there's a whole series. There's 25,000 employees that are going to be coming into the fold of this new company. And what's this company going to be like? Everyone, you know, I think wants to do a good job. Everybody wants to be part of the team. But who is, you know, what is the team and what does it stand for and where is it going? And that sort of brings us back to purpose. So in terms of inspiring people about their day-to-day work, when you think about return on inspiration, a leader is really the chief meaning officer of a company in many ways. So if we just, you know, you can't make this an arithmetical thing, but if everyone came to work 1% more inspired, you know, and you have 100,000 employees, don't you think that would improve the company? And then the other thing is return on imagination. So if the leadership can give all of their stakeholders, not just their employees, but the communities they work in and their shareholders, a feeling of where they're going, what their purpose, their mission, their values are, and The capture my imagination, that's when people want to become part of your company. That's when they want to join in with their dollars or applying for a job. And, you know, just as an example we would all know is Steve Jobs had, you know, incredible imagination in terms of what he wanted the company to become. Whether it was, you know, thousands of songs in your pocket or everyone having a computer or the fact that you should never have an instruction manual.
Right. Well, it's funny, they always talked about— what was the line? They always talked about Steve Jobs having that reality-free zone or something like that. I can't remember what the exact word was, but if you were in that bubble around him, you believed it, right? And I assume video helps bring that across in a certain way. Is that true?
Absolutely. I mean, it's seared in my memory with him in the black turtleneck every time he introduced a new product. And he rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed. Although they looked plain and they looked simple, I think that's the true gift of somebody who is great at that kind of thing is they make it look easy.
This is an odd digression, but I actually was a music major in college. And my vocal teacher was always adamant about the fact that practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect, right? It was that you have to do it the way you're going to do it real, or else it's going to be really hard for you to come across the way you expect, right? It's not just about practice. It's you've got to practice it the way you intend for it to be.
That's great. And that's one of the things I mentioned in the book is leaders sometimes— this has happened to me over and over again throughout my career— they want to come in, you know, breeze into a video session, haven't done it that many times, they do one take and they make a mistake and they say, oh, I'll get it right the next time. And I'm thinking to myself, well, Meryl Streep doesn't say to herself, I'll get it right the next time. There may be 16 takes or 8 takes. It's an understanding it's a process, and that's what's so misunderstood in terms of what we do, and I'm glad to hear you say that about music.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So given that, what are your top pieces of advice for leaders before, during and after they step in front of the camera?
Well, it's a skill. And don't expect perfection. And I think your team that surrounds you in terms of coming on camera can help in so many ways. I mean, one of my favorite quotes was a friend and colleague in corporate communications brought the CEO in, and he whispered in my ear, I brought him in. He's in a great mood. So it has to do with that sense of when you enter the room. It has to do with them being clear about what's going to happen. CEOs and other leaders are very used to being in control of situations, and when they walk onto a video set, they're not as in control. That ability to sort of give up control and create that trust is what we're trying to do. And we count on, you know, our colleagues within the companies to really help make that happen. I think the other thing is just a little bit of preparation, a little bit of rehearsal. And, you know, if you can get in front of the CEO, and I realize that's very hard, you know, to get on their calendar, but then you understand what they want. It's not infrequent that I will be on the set, the CEO walks in, and says, oh, I didn't know we were doing this. That gets in the way of what I wanted to do.
Probably not the best time to stick a camera in someone's face.
Yeah. Over time, as people become better at this, it's like other skills. You learn your routine. It's like before you would play a sports game or before you would go and perform a concert, you would have your own routine. You'd warm up a little bit. You'd exercise. You'd do a little meditation. You'd do some breathing. So you develop your own routine. And it's part of any kind of performance. And I use performance broadly because you're really trying to be more of yourself when you're on camera. That's what's required in our field.
Got it. And when somebody is in front of the camera, so obviously you're talking a bit about preparation. What about when they're in front of the camera?
I think the biggest thing when they're in front of the camera, and you can learn this from the outtakes of major motion pictures when they cut the outtakes reel, is that people start laughing and busting up and playing with each other. And they realize if they are so serious about this moment, you can't relax into it. So I like to create an environment on the set where it's okay to make mistakes. And encounter somebody who's really uptight, I'll start making mistakes. And now I'm giving away my secrets, but I'll drop my notebook on the paper, on the floor, and oh, excuse me, you know, and I can play a little addled, and all these kind of, well, if this guy's that way, maybe I don't have to be so perfect.
Right, right, no, that makes a lot of sense. And then after, is there anything that they can do after the fact?
I think the most important thing they can do after the fact is really review what worked and didn't work. It's like watching game tapes afterwards and seeing what you did right. And also, in the book I talk about, you know, don't criticize. You can give information, but information is like, you know, I felt like you spoke a little too loudly there, as opposed to, you seemed angry.
Right.
One is about a fact and one is about an interpretation.
Right. That makes total sense. I see we have at least one question. Mike, you have a question? Yes.
I enjoyed listening to the discussion around practicing. One of the things that somebody said to me once is that amateurs practice until they can do it right, and professionals practice until they can't do it wrong. And I wondered, You know, given that you're dealing with executives all the time, and this is probably not their most comfortable place, do you find that getting them to practice is something that's actually really hard to do, and that a lot of them just don't want to do that? They just want to get through it? Or, you know, and if you run into that kind of situation, what can you do to help them to really understand the value of doing the practice of being able to run through things, of being able to get comfortable in the situation. How do you kind of talk to them when they're kind of reluctant and they almost feel like this is something that's out of character, uncomfortable, and they want to get it over as soon as possible?
Well, I try to be empathetic. Being a CEO in today's environment is really, really a tough job. And they have so many demands, and frequently they're walked into the room and expected to do something without any practice in 30 minutes or less sometimes. So the most important thing for me when they come into the room is I want them to— I want to make sure that I'm helping them achieve what they want to achieve. And so if it's on a teleprompter, I confirm that I have that amount of time with them. It's frequent that I've been allocated an hour and they come in and I only have 10 minutes. So being respectful of their time. And then I feel it's important to work with them in the rehearsal process to begin with so that we aren't making the mistakes on camera as much. So some people, we've had some people come in and say, I'm going to give you one take. I know myself well enough that my first take will be my best take. And I'm going, okay, well, we can work with that. Some people get better on take 5 or 6. A lot of times it's not uncommon that these leaders have not even had a chance to review the script. So you start to realize—
So it's almost a problem with the staff more than the leader. That they haven't thought through how they have to prepare their leader.
You know, I work with so many great and smart people in the staff, and I listen to the issues they have in getting on the CEO's calendar that, you know, I'm not saying it's a— maybe it's a cultural problem. I'm not pointing any fingers or blaming anyone because, you know, maybe we only have that 30 minutes to have them review the script.
You know, it's funny, in my music days we always used to have a thing about, you know, studio time was expensive when you had to bring people into the recording studio because you had engineers, you had potentially session musicians and the like. So we always tried to encourage people to make their mistakes in rehearsal before they were in the room, you know, to practice and the like, you know, to focus on getting it right.
Yeah, I think that's a good point.
as solid as they could beforehand. I'm wondering if there's a similarity there. Before I have you answer that, I just want to point out to the folks who are on the line, you know, we are going to have a couple minutes left, so if you have questions, please feel free to type them into the box. But sorry, Vern, I sort of set you up for a question that I didn't let you answer. But, you know, do you encourage folks to, you know, focus on as much rehearsal as they can ahead of time from that perspective?
So much of the messaging around the stuff that, you know, we're doing, which is leadership communications, mergers and acquisitions, investor relations, the CEO really understands this and they may have given it as part of a speech, a stump speech. So our task at hand is most frequently shortening it, making it simple, making it human.
Okay.
I encourage people to just take out all the business jargon because it dehumanizes people. And to talk about, you know, if you were talking to a friend at a cocktail party or somebody you didn't know, making it that kind of conversation where you're, you know, and also I like people to, if they're willing to go there, to personalize things because that helps to humanize.
Do you find— Vern, this is Mike— do you find that there are certain kinds of leaders or certain kinds of audiences they speak to that make the job easier or harder? Are there certain situations that can really ratchet up the pressure, or are there other ones or other qualities that leaders might have that actually make them more of a natural and someone who Well, since most of my work is capturing these leaders on video, I'm trying to put them in the frame of mind as to who the audience is.
And I like to talk about, is the audience a friendly and receptive audience? Is the audience a skeptical audience? Is the audience going to be leaning forward, sitting back, with their arms crossed? And once you sort of understand who the audience is, one of the tricks is to really try and find a specific person in that audience that you can think about that you're making that case to and you're answering those questions to. And that helps people to be much more effective in terms of the way they communicate.
You know, you mentioned a moment ago you try to make the message shorter, right? Lots of times they have They are working from material they know, or they are working from things they've talked about before. A question that I hear a lot when people talk about video that I don't know the answer to is about the length. I mean, are some lengths more effective than others, or does it just depend on the content? How do you determine what is the right length for the videos that you are putting together?
Well, I'm going to be counterintuitive here because—
That's great.
The length that we hear most frequently is 2 to 3 minutes. So everybody wants a 2 to 3 minute video. And that 2 minutes or shorter is the new trending length. My point goes back to the audience. So, for example, I like to watch TED Talks. TED Talks are usually 18 to 20 minutes, and they're a single person walking around on the stage and talking to you. So I'm not bored. I'm interested in this subject. Most of the messaging that we do, whether it's recruiting, hey, I'm interested in the job. I'll invest 2 minutes. 5 minutes, maybe even 10 minutes to make one of the most important decisions in my life as to where I'm going to work.
Right.
So we also do fundraising. So if you capture somebody's heart in a way where the story is really compelling, they will follow you. And we've made fundraising films that are 22 minutes long, and people were just wrapped the whole time. So I think the issue has to do with not boring the audience and not talking at them, somehow engaging them, and using storytelling techniques and best practices. At that point in time, the length becomes less relevant. We like to say we don't make the story any longer than it needs to be. Yeah. I know with mobile people viewing and mobile habits, things want shorter and shorter and shorter, but where does that trend end? I guess we now have 3-second videos, 5-second videos, and they're certainly fun, but they lack the kind of emotional connection. They lack the kind of intellectual engagement. They lack the kind of compelling arguments that we use in these kinds of deep, meaningful, important communications.
Makes sense. And, you know, since we've been speaking about length and since we've talked about, you know, the topic and we try to be respectful of people's time, we are actually just a little past 12:17, so that's all the time we really have. I'd like to wrap this up and say thanks again to Mike and especially to Vern for great discussion and great insights. Really terrific stuff, Vern. Thank you so much. And thank you also to the Conference Board for hosting, and thank you, our audience, for your participation. And I hope everyone has a really great rest of the day. Vern, have a great day, and thanks so much for joining us.
Thank you, Tim. Thank you, Mike.
Take care now.
