Bidding Commercial Maintenance Jobs - Ep.36

Hey, everyone, this is Mike Andes. You're listening to landscape business course. Today's episode 36, we're gonna be talking.

To James, who is a member on the landscape business course. And before we get started, though, and before we play that call that happened.

Actually, actually it was a few weeks ago.

Now, before we get to that, though, if you haven't already, make sure you sign up for next week's webinar. Next Tuesday, we're gonna be having a webinar 9:00am Pacific Time.

If you can't get to it live.

Still, you'll want to sign up for it. And you'll be able to watch the replay that we sent to you right after. So make sure if you haven't, you sign up for that webinar. It's gonna be a live webinar.

Right now there's like three or four.

People have signed up for it. So I haven't done a really good job of promoting it, but I'll open up for as many of you want to join for next week. Next Tuesday, we're gonna be doing a live webinar where you can ask all your question about your marketing for this coming spring. I can look at your website. I'm gonna kind of be sharing some of the stuff I've been ads and we've been absolutely killing it with Facebook ads. Like, like, that's all we've done for marketing this year and it's been huge. Like, the sun has actually started to.

Shine where we're at now.

So people are actually starting to call and we're slammed. It looks like we'll probably need to get another truck or two and maybe hire people. We'll just see. We'll see how we. If we just mark up our, our prices and do more of a that way or if we grow a lot this year and get more employees and trucks and things like that. So we'll see how that goes. But essentially that's what we've been using is Facebook ads. And so I'm gonna be talking a lot about that, how you can use it in your business. I'll probably actually do a screen like showing of what we're doing so you can really see exactly what we've been up to. So just sign up@landscapebusinesscourse.com like if you have any questions. Like, obviously, like if you've been listening to Business Bootcamp podcast. You know, I'm super busy right now and so I'm not gonna be doing the live webinars worth or like one on one talks as much anymore. And so I probably want to open that up to people outside the course. So people who are course members, they'll have direct access to me more. Whereas I can't do these one on ones that I was doing most the winter because I can't do three or four of those a day like I was before. So if you want direct access to me, this is probably the best way to do it is join on one of these webinars. And if you've been thinking about joining the course, you'll definitely want to join the webinar for next Tuesday. We're going to have a discount there if you're out on the webinar live that you can buy the course because I really want to see people get it before the spring. Can I get off to a good start here? So make sure you check it out. Landscapebusinesscourse.com just put in your contact information, sign up for the. Sign up for the webinar and then it'll probably be like an hour. So I'm guessing I'll probably talk like 20 minutes about Facebook ads, what we've been doing, show you guys exactly the creative we've been using and what's been working. And then I'll show you all that good stuff and then take questions. So come with your questions if you have questions about your print marketing, digital marketing, email marketing, whatever it is. And we're gonna go over that live and in person. So there might be only might only be five to 10 people. You know, the podcast here is still growing. I haven't used any other platforms to really promote this, but if there's, you know, five or ten people, it means you can get most of your questions answered. So definitely check out landscapebusinesscourse.com and it's gonna be really, really good. I promise I'll make it worth your while. And so, yeah, so without any further delay, let's talk to James. I think I've had James on the podcast a while back.

He was actually one of the first.

Members on the course. Literally, I think he got it within like a week or two of us starting it up and so been really good, kind of following his journey. And obviously your first second year, you're still struggling. When you have a family, it's hard to provide and grow a business because you can't put as much money back into the company, growing it and things like that.

So it's not easy.

I'm not saying it's easy, but he's been in the course now growing his Business and stayed in touch with me quite consistently throughout the process. And so this call he had, he had essentially just reached out to me and said, hey, do you have a minute?

I'm trying to bid this commercial job.

Not really sure exactly how to do it. And so I think it would be good for you guys. I essentially took out the address and things. So obviously protect James from anyone trying to compete with him. But I think it'll be valuable for everyone out there that is trying to go commercial or is trying to get some of these big commercial jobs and not sure exactly how to bid them out. So just some of the logic and kind of, you know, ethos behind commercial bidding. So without further delay, let's go to James and my conversation from several weeks ago. Here we go.

Okay. Well, they contacted me after I had a mailer go out and the HOA president was want to contact me. He basically wants the full suite of services that you can get from someone like ourselves.

Right.

They want mowing, all the landscape work, the mulch.

Aeration, fertilization, weed control, window washing.

And even dryer vent cleaning, which I told them I didn't really do that. But it's a 20 building condo association with 48 tenants. And the total square footage of the property before you subtract for houses and stuff is over 10 acres.

Oh, wow. Okay.

Once you subtract for, you know, structure, I think it, if I remember correctly, it's like 158,000 square feet. Turf.

Yeah.

11,000 square feet of.

Buildings.

Do you have the address by chance? I can look it up on Google maps.

It is 100. I think it's. I don't remember the zip code off the top of my head.

That's fine. That's fine. All right.

Okay.

Okay, cool.

There's two stages to it of the subdivision. This is the second one.

Okay.

Cubco is kind of centered in it and it's the 20 buildings that are around it.

So it's like they're all duplexes, it looks like.

Is that right?

Yeah, they're like duplex condos.

Got it. Okay.

Okay, I got the street view now with the aerial.

And the thing that scared me the most when I was looking at it was not when I was actually there.

Yeah.

The condo association president told me that the current person does it with two full time people and one part time person.

Right.

And plus the owner of the business is always there while her people are there. But I contacted one of the local.

Dealers around here who they also mow so they keep records of what all these different places have paid over the years. I called up there to see if he had information on it, and he said no, but he knew who was doing it. And that. That person that. That late the owner of the business, that the sole property that she maintained, because it involves that much work.

Okay, yeah.

But I don't know if that means she doesn't want more work.

Right.

That's enough to pay the bills or what. But she's getting out of the business. I guess she's moving away. And so it's gonna be up for grabs.

Yeah. Like, if she. Like. Well, so this is the thing. I don't know if you're able to get her contact. She might not even care about giving you the pricing that she's doing, because if she is truly moving away or this is the other thing. And that is when people have, like, I've run into this before. HOAs have, like, someone that literally has like, or, like, condo associations. They have a maintenance person on staff and, like, that lives there, works there, supposedly 24, seven.

And then we get there and we can do all the work within half a day with a crew of two, just because we're running on time and efficiency. Whereas if you have someone there that's full time, it's not the case. They can just kind of piddle around. But, like, right now it sounds like they do have an actual provider. So they do want to. They are motivated by time. But I would say too, like, as far as making the estimate, if I were you, I would just break up all these properties, like, literally name them all off, give the address and do an estimate for every single one, add them all up and then give them some sort of a discount for the fact that you don't have to drive anywhere.

Right.

So, like, that could be anywhere from, you know, 15 to 40%. It just how much do you want it? Kind of thing. And this is the thing, too, is, like, this could be a perfect opportunity if you think this is. If you get it. Like, I wouldn't do anything crazy until you get the job. And that is, this would be a perfect way to have now get your first person on board.

Yeah.

Because now go ahead.

Definitely need somebody. Because they were talking.

That.

He said the first thing that's in Bourne is going to ask him is how much help I have.

Right.

You know, and I told him I run solo right now. This year. I'm planning on bringing people on. And I do have three interested parties that want to work for me.

So. Yeah. Like, when I. When I was at that position where I was still solo and I was about to, you know, go full. Like, I knew I was going to get someone else full time when I went to these kind of jobs and they, I knew that they'd be interested and they asked me that question, like, do you have other help? I would literally just say I have them. Like, even if you know you're gonna get them, just say you have them and then, then once you get the job, focus on training them and all of that. Especially if you have three parties that are interested and you know you can get someone to work for you. Like, I would just, you know, over commit and then figure out the details later. Like on these jobs where they are this big. This is the thing too. This is, this can be a huge positive for you in that you, you can go into having a full timer without having this question in the back of your head, do I have enough work for them? Right. And so this is like kind of a huge catalyst that will help the bridge from going from solo to having your first employee. Because, you know, regardless of, you know, regardless of what happens, even if, you know, you don't even get other new jobs that you can at least keep them busy with this complex.

Yeah. So like, if I were you, as far as bidding it out, I would, instead of trying to look at it from a macros perspective because there's so many small spots, like instead of trying to give an estimate of how long it would take total, which you could do, you could do that way too. I would just, since you're more comfortable with smaller lawns and residential, do every single house as a different estimate and then just give a percentage discount for the fact that you don't have to drive everywhere. And that might be 30, 40% because not only do you not have to drive anywhere when you're hiring someone now, they, you don't have to pay someone to be driving. Like, you cut your expenses down huge, right. So you can afford to go lower. And that's the only time that I go lower is on these, you know, massive maintenance contracts. And as you get bigger, you're gonna either a go more commercial and give steeper discounts or you'll stay more residential and charge your commercial clients as if they're residential. So we've kind of focused on still charging the premium for our commercial clients. And that's just because that's the direction we want to take it. More residential, higher end, higher profit margin. But this is a great way to segue into getting people on Full time. And even if, even honestly if you made 10% net profit on this, instead of what you'd usually like, like say 25 or 30, even if you made just 10%, this is more, I think more of a business opportunity in the fact it's going to help you grow long term and, and it's gonna help you kind of take the step into going now. Cause if you get this job now, you can start focusing on full time, working on sales and maybe getting a second guy. So that's all part of the growing the business and that's how you scale fast. So you're hitting exactly what you're gonna, what is part of the course in year two, which is like, that's when you really hit the kicker. And that's always happened when you get that first guy on you go full time sales, you get this. And that second guy comes fast because now you all of a sudden get up more jobs and like, imagine if you now have this HOA and you can get a reference from them and now go to every other hoa, right. So there's, and then you have the time because now you have full time employees. So you're at that point like that kind of tipping point. You're at that point where one job like this is what will get you over the tipping point. So you can really start to scale. And so either a, you take this whole year, you get 20 or 30 more residential lawns elsewhere, and then next year this kind of jump happens, or you take this job, take a little bit of a cut as far as what you'd usually like to charge by the hour or by the lawn, and then you just make the jump a year earlier. And that's what I would go for. I'd go for it. Like, even if, like I said, if you take a bit of a cut on your profit margin, I'd still go for it.

Yeah, I definitely want to. I'm going to put a bid in regardless. And I want to try to be somewhat aggressive right Where I live, you have to be licensed to apply chemicals and I don't have that license.

Just sub it out. Just sub it out. Even, even, like the vents? Yeah, even the vents thing.

I have a great working relationship with applicators on both sides of town.

Yeah.

So I just go with whoever's closest. But.

My, my concern is because it's so much property, I mean, even if, even if you're off on your estimate hitting by a few minutes, but you're off on, you know, 20 different lots, that's a long. That's a huge difference of being that big, you know.

Right.

Right now I've got one zero turn and a push, and then I've got a lawn tracker now that I use for specific purposes, like field knowing.

Yeah.

But, you know, I'm gonna. I would need a whole another zero turn, I think, to get in here and get this done. Yeah. I mean, it's obviously a huge plus and a huge risk. And, you know, risk reward is always. They're always comparable.

Yeah. But I think. I think you'll be surprised, actually. How, like, if you run the number. So, like, let's run some numbers. Okay. So let's say you got a guy full time there. And so if one guy was working there full time, do you think it'd take him like three or four days a week? Like just kind of ballparking it?

They said. The guy told me that with the. They had. They were running two zero turns and one guy, like trimming and blowing. Yeah, pretty much. And they did it all in a day, unless there was a lot of growth for some reason.

Yeah.

Like a full day that they would be there and occasionally they would come back to finish up. But.

Okay, so let's say. Let's say 20 hours for the moment. Right, right. For the mowing and everything.

Because you're still going to have to trim their trees, wash the windows, all that other stuff.

Right, right. The washing of the windows is once a year. They want pruning of the shrubs and stuff spring and fall, depending on the type of plant, whether it's appropriate to do it spring or fall.

Are they going to let you do windows in the winter?

He didn't really say on that. The guy contacted me yesterday and they're having a meeting with the board Wednesday.

Yeah.

And they plan on trying to start mid March. So I basically got handed this with like 10 days to kind of iron out.

Oh, yeah.

You know all the details.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like. Like the thing. The reason I asked about the window thing is like, that can be a huge thing for you too. Right. Because if you're trying to. This is what's great about commercial jobs is they usually have you do everything and you can put a lot of the work in the winter. So, like the one, like, the main reason I go for commercial right now, I'm even interested in it is because I want to keep my guys busy in the winter. And so they're usually okay with us doing tree trimming and all this other stuff in the winter. Right. And so, like, I'm just kind of getting hours. So like let's say 20 hours a week. If they're going to be mowing the guys, let's say you do it at 40 weeks out of the year.

And then. Oh, I don't even have a calculator. This is gonna be bad. Okay, then we got. Then let's say the window washing. Let's say it takes like.

Two guys, so 20 hours a day. And then let's say that takes them like 10 days. Just bear with me for a second. And then do you do tree trimming?

I do. Similar to what you do if you can get it from the ground, basically 15ft up or so is about all we do.

How long do you think would it take, like a crew of two, like a week to do all the trimming there?

Yeah, I'd say probably a week. Because on established trees, it's a new subdivision, new earth, so they don't have much established, but they have a lot of landscaping that has to be seasonally pruned.

Okay. Yes, we got trimming and then we got the mowing.

This is the windows.

Okay. All right. So essentially what I'm doing, So I got 800 hours there, I got 200 hours there, I got 200 hours There. So 1200 hours total. Okay. And then you times that by say, 20. So 2000. 24,000. 24,000. So right now, like, okay, 220, 200. 1200. Why is that not looking right? 10. Yes. Okay, so like, yeah, like right now your labor costs for the entire project is like 24 grand.

So essentially then you say, okay, well, then I need a zero turn mower. Okay, let's say you get a 0% finance 0 turn mower, and you're going to be paying 300 bucks a month. So now let's add four grand to that is annually. So now we're at 28 grand. Plus you got like overhead, you got trucks, you got insurance. So let's just say this is 40 grand, right? Like, this is very conservative as far as, like, you probably don't have 12 grand worth of overhead as far as just gas and things like that. But let's say 40 grand, like, that's really conservative. Like, what's your number right now? Do you think. Do you have an idea or not.

Really as far as current overhead or where my bid would be.

Yeah, bid. Do you kind of have an idea per month or not?

Well, the only thing I. Look, the only thing. Only thing I've put into it so far, aside from reaching out to some people and trying to talk to some people who've done a lot more. Hoas. It is gross estimate off of right now for me, my minimum to stop my truck and drop it to the trailer is $35.

Good. Yep.

And so I figured 20 buildings, you know, even though there's 48 residents, you know, individual homes, but 20 buildings, that's really 20 yards. Basically, you know, it's 700 a week. So that puts you at 28, 2800amonth in mowing. If I did it that way.

Yeah, I would. Yeah, I wouldn't do it that way because you probably only move your truck three times on this property. Right. Or maybe four or five.

Right? Yeah, I mean, I was. That. That's the. That would be the high end. And then. All right, for discounted, I figured, you know, if I was doing it, if I were bidding it like that, I would probably go closer to like 25 a resident at $500 a week. So $2,000 a month, right?

Yep. Yeah. So, like, just the mowing is going to. So if you did two. If you did 2,000. I'm not saying to do 2,000. I'm just saying if you did 2,000amonth, that's gonna be 24 grand. That's gonna cover a labor. Like, you're. So your. Your. All your. Your direct labor costs would be covered, and that includes, like, payroll taxes and all that. So, guys, that's 24 grand. But then you got like the tree trimming and you got the. The window washing and all of that. Right. And that's.

Right.

That's essentially probably almost gonna be double that per month. Right. By the time you take it all.

Into account.

Or no, that'd probably be like another thousand a month. I'm guessing something like that.

If you were to break it out over the entire contract.

Right.

Just the months we knew it.

If you're breaking over the whole contract.

I don't know if the window washing and the landscaping, if they would go that high on it.

Okay.

Because I am.

I do have a number of the lady who currently maintains it. I'm trying to get in touch with her. She just hadn't returned a phone call yet.

Yeah, it'd be a good idea just to get kind of, you know, hours that take it takes there to work there and things like.

Tell me what she. What she charges them to know. How many yards of mulch did you bring in this year?

Right, Right, right. Oh, right. You get mulch, too. Like, that's pretty cool.

Yeah. And I don't know how that's going to go yet. The guy was saying that the board is kind of split 50, 50 as to whether they should mulch every year or every other year.

Right, Right. Yeah.

And some of the beds we looked at, you know, when we walked around, you can see the bare soil underneath. So I recommended 3 inches more mulch on top of what they have because it's pretty thin.

Right? Right. Yeah. Like a customer like that, you know, like I said, I wouldn't even worry too much about your numbers. Like, honestly, you're not gonna lose money. I really like. I'll just tell you that based upon the way you pricing out already and the things I know about the company, you're not gonna lose money.

Because really, when it comes down to it, your truck isn't moving. So you're paying labor costs plus whatever cost you're paying for equipment. You got to kind of figure those hours into your overall overhead. But like, if you pay some, if you pay two guys, one guy for an entire day with, you know, payroll, let's say 20 bucks an hour all in, I guess $200.

I guarantee you're gonna make more than that in a day there. Right. And so like if you average everything out. So honestly, I wouldn't be worrying too much about losing money. Like, I don't think that's even something you should be considering. I'd be looking at this like, how much am I willing to take off my net profit margin in order for the opportunity to go full time and make the bigger jump?

Yeah. And if I can, you know, I'm also thinking if I can make just enough off of this property to pay for, you know, another zero turn mower or, you know, whatever.

Right.

You know, then that's just going to add to my fleet, which will then, you know, next year gives me more room, more expansion.

Yeah. Like, if you just take the cost of having someone, like for 24 grand, as far as, you know, just straight up money, you can hire someone for nine months out of the year full time. And then if you add four grand a year in monthly payments on a zero turn, let's say 28 grand, so. So if you're over 28 grand, you've essentially paid for someone to be on your team full time. And that means not just working at this property, but all the other jobs you want them to do. Plus you're guys zero term mower. The only thing I'm trying to say in that is I don't think you're gonna lose money on this job based upon what your pricing is.

Really, you can't. And so really I'd be like, hey, even if you just cover the cost of being able to pay someone full time, because literally if they work here two or three days a week full time, you have two or three other days a week where they get to now do all your jobs or like the ones you have now, right? And then, then you know, from a financial standpoint, it's almost like just gravy on top.

So I think you know enough and I think you're just. Because you never done one like this big before. But I think you're not gonna lose money based upon your pricing. And like you know enough to where. Like if you were losing money, you would know. And honestly, if you did all these lawns for 15 bucks, then I'd be thinking you might be losing money. But if you're even thinking like 25, like you're not gonna lose money, almost guaranteed. So I wouldn't worry too much about that. I'd be obviously trying to get a hold of the lady, seeing if you can get some specific numbers. Even if she won't give you like how long it took you, I mean took her. I'd be asking just what's the dollar amount that you are getting every month? If you can get that from her or even if you approach the hoa. This is what I do sometimes, like if I have no idea what exact. Because sometimes people come to you like HOAs or commercial, and they don't really have strict guidelines or they don't have a very good job outline like what they want. So what I say is, okay, what's your budget? And then I'll make a proposal based upon your budget and see what kind of services I can fit in. And, and sometimes they'll actually prefer that because then they know that the bid they get from you is gonna be in their budget. And then they just get to see what services you offer within their budget. Instead of them going out and getting a bunch of bids and half of them not even being in their budget, you go and say, hey, what's your budget? Give me that number. And then I'll see what I can do. As far as you know, if it's a weekly, is it bi weekly service? Do you get two trimmings a year? You get one, how many treatments do you get? And then you get a figure out what you can do to fit inside the budget. And then what you do, this is what I would do, is I'd give them something to fit inside Their budget, then I'd give them a la carte items like, okay, if you want mulching, it's going to cost x amount one time or x amount each month for the 12 months. And so that way, yes, you're inside their budget and they get the option of going over budget if they agree that they need mulching or some other service.

Right.

So, yeah, like, I don't. You probably know if the person. If they would even give that kind of information. But I think a lot of people are surprised if you ask for it, they'll give it to you because they want, like, bids that are within their budget. And then they can compare services instead of just thinking on price. And so if you go and say, hey, that's one way to do it, you know, whether or not they're gonna take that or even consider that. But I think you'd be surprised if you ask how often they'll do that.

Yeah, I think it's definitely worth a shot. Especially if I can't get anything from the lady who's currently doing it.

Because you just need something to work with. Right? Because if they're coming in at like 1500 bucks a month as their budget, you know that like either a, you've got to cut their service in what they're asking for in half, or, you know, they're just totally unreasonable and this is like a complete waste of your time because for all you know, they might hire Joe Blow to work ten bucks an hour and, and just work there five days a week. Like. Right. So I would just. If you go in there and get that budget. And this is the thing too, when they give you a budget number, sometimes they're just trying to throw you off. But you'll know based upon, like, how much information they give you if you ask what their budget is. Like, oh, it's $1,000 a month. You know, they're way off. If they send you all the payment details from the last year and give you the total of what they paid. Like, you know that that's legit numbers. And you'll know that that's what they're. Where their ballpark is. And so that way you don't go and offer like tons of services, tons of mulching, all this stuff, and then you come over $15,000 over their bid because you've offered too many services than what they've had in the past, and they'll just write your bid off and say, oh, well, he's way over budget. And then not even look.

Yeah, yeah. It's a good point.

Like, my concern is the chemical side. Also. The guy that is on this side of town, I talked to his estimator and he told me, he said, you know, they're not going to pay us to aerate and oversee. He said, I can tell you that right now. And he said, our bid is never the cheapest. They are the same motto as yourself. And what I'm emulating, they sell a premium service and they're not true green.

Can you do a granular product like in Indiana? Can you spread a granular product or not?

I can't spread any product for turf management without a license.

Really.

I'm not even allowed to do spot treatment like driveways or crack control without licensing. I can get the license. It's $200. And then a weekend of my time, take the courses. Yeah, but they only offer it like twice a year. And so for me to go and get licensed when I can sub it out for the small dog that I have, I've never done it well, hey.

You might get the job and then. Then figure, hey, like, I want to cut the sub out and then go get your license, you know.

Right.

And so.

And they actually prefer granular because last year they had a guy spraying liquid and he got a lot of collateral damage with drift on the truck.

Right.

But the companies around here refuse to use granular because the control is so much less accurate and don't fit. You can spot treat with liquid and you can get a better application, they feel, with liquid over granular because it doesn't rain soon enough or blows away and all that jazz. So.

Yeah, yeah, like. Like the thing too is like, if you get the budget information or information from the lady, you can kind of make a base contract like mowing and trimming and then do everything else a la carte. And then let them make the decision if they want it. And then say, okay, if you decide you want it. And it will just annualize it over the 12 months. So what I mean by that is, okay, we're gonna charge you $2,000 a month for mowing and edging. Excuse me. And then this is what it's gonna cost per trimming of all the trees, per mulching of all the beds, per window cleaning for all the windows. And then they can decide if they wanna check those off. And then you just take that number and annualize it over the 12 months. And then that way they make the decision. Right. Like they can. The last thing you want to be doing is like deciding if you Want to do an application or not? You want to be making sure that's in the contract and that they know that if they want an application, it's going to cost them more. And so that's what I would do. I'd do your base amount, you know, for the mowing, trimming, maybe once a year, trimming all the bushes, whatever, whatever you think that is. And then make sure they can kind of pick and choose. Gives them some freedom. And they won't write your bid off because you're too high, because you've included way too much. That's the thing, right? You don't want to include too much, your price is too high, then they just write you off. So if you kind of catch their attention with a really low bid, and then they're like, oh, well, it's really low. And then they look at it like, oh, we got to add these things, and they will do the work for you. And as far as making it work for their budget, because they'll say, oh, well, we don't really need all the bushes trimmed twice a year. We could get away with once. Or we don't really need five applications, we need three. But if you just give them a base rate and say, we're going to applications in the year, da, da, da, da, then you get in this war of, oh, we wanted five applications, we wanted three, we want more this. And so if they know, though, it's a la carte and they're getting paid like they're paying for the services that they get, you won't have that problem.

Okay.

Yeah. So, yeah, I think, you know, your next stop is really trying to get information, either a, from the previous vendor, the lady, or trying to get a budget to work in. And some HOAs will say, no, we want to get everyone an opportunity for this bid or whatever, and that's fine. Or they'll say, yes, we have a specific budget of $2,460. And then you're like, thank you, I'll make sure I work within that. You make a bid within that, and then you give a la carte items for them to go above and beyond that if they, like, you know, vote as an hoa, that's necessary. Things like the mulch.

Because you don't. Because you don't want to put in a mulch bid for once a year. And when half of the. Half of the board doesn't want it every year, because what will happen is now you already split off 50% of the people voting on that HOA, that won't even want your bid like 50% immediately take, not even taking account like, you know, if it's, if it's expensive or if you're the cheapest, it doesn't matter. Now you've already split off 50% of.

The people are voting.

Right. So I would make sure something especially like that mulch thing, anything that's discretionary and you know that they are going to kind of fight over, let them do the fighting themselves, don't include it in your bid and make it all part of a package and then not allow them to accept you because half the board doesn't want it mulched every year.

You know, do you think from that mulch I should, when I put it as a la carte, instead of putting it for the entire property, just list a by yard basis and that way, you know, if some of the homeowners want to go.

Yeah. An HOA is going to act together though, like, because like they want it all to look uniform. It's very rare that they would say, okay, half a house or the homeowners get a pick and choose if they want the mulch because they're all paying, they're all paying HOA fees every single month. All right. Like every single homeowner. So in order, like they are going to get the same thing no matter what.

The president did mention to me that he said they do offer the HOA tenants if they want to go above and beyond the standard or plan things or something like that, that they would have me come in and bid those by the job.

Right. And then the homeowner would then pay for it out of pocket. Right. What you're bidding on right now is what their HOA fees go towards every single month.

So the standardization.

Exactly. Yep.

So, yeah, let's stay in touch. And then I think, you know, your first moves is trying to get more information, either aid from that lady or from a budget standpoint from the hoa and then work based upon that. But I think this is more.

I think this is less of a money move and more of a long term business move because you're going to be able to get someone on full time right away instead of waiting later in this year or even next year for your residential part of the business to catch up with you.

And that's, that's probably the scariest part for me. You know, like I said, I'm right on that tipping edge.

Yeah.

And if I go forward, you know, it's a downhill fast. You know, you grow quick, you better be ready for what's about to come. So.

Yeah, yeah, you can do it man. You can do it, man. I promise you.

My business from the bank. Yeah, I got a small retaining wall job from that.

Good.

And one pressure washing job off of it. And then everybody else, even the winner of the drawing, I cannot get a hold of it. Email them, I call them. You know, it's like they, you know, I don't know.

Yeah, well, hey, you know, at the very least it's exposure. Right. Like everyone else saw you even if they didn't put their name in. And like you never know. Like this is the thing about marketing and branding. Especially like the president of this hoa, he might have got a mailer but, but you don't know how many times he saw you before. Whether it be your truck or he might be part of the people who go to the bank and saw your thing all the time. Then he gets the mailer and then you get the call. Right. So sometimes it's a branding move and that's why this is like companies like Nike, Under Armour and all these big brands, they recognize that and that's why they make these videos that sometimes people laugh at and like how does it have anything to do with their brand? And it's because they're trying to just put their, their, their, their, their brand image, their logo, like what they do in front of people enough times to finally, they get, they get convert. Right, so.

Right.

So I think it's a branding. No, it's fine, go ahead, you go.

I have had several people, you know, probably five, five to seven people that are either in my industry, you know, that I've met with, you know, or customers who just asked me, they're like, oh, we, you're the one that has that display in the bank, aren't you? Yeah, you know, yeah. So I mean the exposure is working. That's definitely working.

Yeah, totally.

Alrighty. So I hope that helps someone out there that is trying to get their.

First commercial job or is a little bit unsure of how to bid. Commercial work. A lot of pros and cons of going commercial and if you're in the course, you know that I'm a big fan of keeping your prices higher and not trying to be part of those huge high volume companies that have a 5 or 10% margin and go after these massive government and commercial jobs. I would prefer that you develop relationships with property managers and property owners and so they're willing to pay a higher price for your premium product and service. And so yeah, that's kind of my 2 cents. And so hopefully you got something out of it. Make sure you go to landscapebusinesscourse.com and sign up for the webinar we have next Tuesday, 9 o' clock Pacific time. We're going to be talking about marketing. If you have questions on how to bid these commercial jobs and you want more, you have more questions or have specific even addresses, make sure you come ready. Questions to be answered. All right, next Tuesday, 9:00am I'll see you then. Landscapebusinesscourse.com Sign up today. We'll see you then.