Business Bootcamp: Carter Zoom Call #2

Welcome back to the Mike Andes Podcast, where we discuss ins and outs of owning a small business. If you're new here, the Mike Andes podcast is all about taking your business to the next level. We're covering season one, episode two of the Business Bootcamp, Zoom Calls.

This week.

If you haven't heard, we've been watching four different home service business owners overcome their challenges and build their business into something great. Part of the whole thing is zoom call check ins that we do along the way. With Mike, we're talking to Carter from Rough Cuts Lawn Care out of Yuba City, California. Carter is doing a lot of work for almost no profit. And the problem is pretty clear they're settling their prices too low and are worried about customers jumping ship when they finally raise him. He needs to learn that the customers he loses when he raises prices, those are the customers you don't want to keep around. This week in particular, Carter's business is nearing capacity. We're going to figure out how to remedy that. As always, you can find all this and more over at the Mike and his YouTube channel. Without further ado, here's the second call with Carter from Refcuts Lawn Care.

Today we're talking to Carter, and last week on Business Bootcamp, we talked to him a lot about raising prices. Today we're going to be talking about asset utilization because he has mowers that he owes a bunch of money on. They're massive mowers, but they're literally being used once or twice a month. He's literally doing over 30,000amonth in revenue with only two trucks. He's basically hitting capacity. Today we're going to talk about going into debt to buy vehicles to increase capacity, when that should be done and when it should not be done, as well as getting rid of this equipment that has low asset utilization. And he's to get rid of that debt. So Carter from Rough Cuts Lawn Care, here we go. Carter, how's it going?

Pretty good. How about yourself?

Good, good. How's the week?

Pretty good. Yeah. I had quite a few changes. Really? Didn't get any.

Calls, Maybe one or two for work, so that definitely kind of slowed down. I'm not sure what what changed there.

But when do you guys typically stop mowing?

We don't. All right.

You just keep going, right?

Yeah.

Okay.

I mean, it slows down winter just because of the rain, because when it does rain, it rains a ton and the ground's just so wet, there's no you mow and it just tears the lawn up. So. Okay.

Cool. And so you're still booked out though? Like about four or five weeks. Is that approximately right?

Yeah. So I've been getting closer to closing a lot of these jobs. Just started doing, meeting with the customers, going over designs.

Getting adjustments made, and that way I can start sending out all the estimates for jobs and start getting everything in contract. But yeah, the next two, three weeks are all like scheduled solid. And then after that, once these contracts start filling in, then I'll, I'll be scheduling those in, but.

Okay, cool. Um, a couple things I wanted to go over first and foremost, pricing wise. Well, did we look at raising those or have you done anything that this past week on raising the prices?

Yeah, so I have a couple accounts that I definitely am going to raise. Um, the rest I need, so. Okay, well, I just want to talk to you about it. Um, I haven't ever really gotten many customer complaints and then like just today I got three for the maintenance side. My brother's the one that handles the maintenance sides. It's little things. Like, you know, they said, hey, this shrub had a branch that's sticking out a foot from it for the past three weeks. Why can't he cut it? Little things, but I just don't know if I should be raising prices right now or if I need to fix, like fix the quality wise, I guess, and get everything back up to the standard I was doing it at. I mean, well, I know it's never going to beat the standard I was doing it at, but bring the standard up a little bit before raising the prices or just raise the prices because I don't want to, you know, raise the prices. Standards low. And then now I, it gives me more of a reason to leave.

How many hours are the guys working.

Per week right now for the maintenance side, he's working just about 40. Okay.

And then the other guy is about 42.

So the other guys that are doing projects with me, they're both just four days a week. Well, one's 40 a week and then five days every other week.

Okay. And so you're basically at capacity for the one person for maintenance, but you have plenty of capacity in terms of the project side currently, is that right?

Yeah, I have one part time guy that helps my brother on one of the days because we do a big cemetery.

So he helps him out on that day just because it's way too much work for one guy.

But besides that, it's pretty much him.

Like if it made you feel better, you could do the first two. Those two really big ones that you know are underpriced, you could raise those first. But honestly, like, you'll always find information and data to prove to why you should not raise prices. And it almost always will come back to confidence around customer service. Like, oh man, I got these complaints. Or like, you know, so. And so we broke their window the other day. Like, that will always be the case. And so the ultimate thing is, is like supply and demand. If you have, if they can't find another provider, they can't find someone that's going to do a good job like you. If you came back and corrected those three mistakes, they might not be able to find someone else that can do that. And so, you know, customer service is objective and ultimately they have, they're looking at the full package of value right now. With your website coming out now with the fact that you are really trying to professionalize the company, there's value in that. And ultimately, if you don't raise prices, something's going to break eventually because you're working like crazy hours and there's no profit. So I would rather you raise prices and know immediately you make that route extremely profitable. And maybe he only gets 35 or 36 hours because you lose some customers. But, or you don't have to hire that guy for the half day or a day that the part timer. Right. But ultimately it'll like literally triple the profit on that route.

And so I know it's a tough band aid to pull off, so you could, you could do it on the two that, you know, you're honestly probably losing money on. If you're at $40 an hour, you know, after you just count fuel and wages, you're basically losing money.

Oh, totally.

And so like those ones is. It's like it should have been done 10 years ago. Right. So, like, those are due right away. And I think what you potentially find, if you, if you don't have the comms to all of them, do those two and watch how they'll stay with you. And if they don't, then maybe we, we, we wait a little while in terms of raising prices, because you need to keep him busy. Right. Because those are big contracts.

Yeah. Because the one for the cemetery, I just had it maybe four months and it was a stretch for them to spend the 1700amonth because the next guy was 1500amonth. And I don't know. And that's what their budget was. I don't know how. I mean, it had to have been a solo guy, just a guy in a truck showing up to mow it for that.

So I don't think I know that if I raise my price, they're going to change because they just don't have it in their budget. That's why I was keeping it through the winter, though, just so I had work for them. I have steady cash flow throughout the winter. And then as soon as springtime hits, you know.

Right. You're profitable. Do you think you're profitable during the winter months on that contract though, for the month?

Yes, because I'll, I only go every other week, so I'll, I'll be pretty profitable on that. But if you average it out, it averages the year out to be like 50aman hour, which isn't.

Got it. Horrible, dude. Like 40 in the summer. Probably 60, 65 during the winter is. Probably.

Got it.

Okay. So, yeah, like, you know, I think almost all of these, because they're on these contracts, you're probably going to wait to raise the actual price on them because you can be profitable for the next four or five months and then.

Raise it in the spring.

Yeah. And just have it all scheduled.

Right.

Because you know what's going to happen. Spring rush is going to come. If you lose even that fifteen hundred dollars or seventeen hundred dollars customer, that's literally what, like six customers? Yeah, six, seven customers. And so you'll have more confidence. Whereas right now when you're getting one a week or two a week that feel. You feel the pain a little bit longer. Right. But if you are at capacity right now, that, that's where my concern is. If you're at capacity like you're, you can't get any more customers on the route. That's when it's like, okay, we should still raise prices at least on the, on the, you know, the jobs that are not contractual. But it sounds like all of your jobs are on contract, right?

For the most part, yeah.

Yeah. Every single one is a year round. That's. I don't, I mean, I tell people, hey, we can do it per cut, but they don't like it when I tell them, you know, it equals out to 40 or 50 bucks a cut. They don't like that. So they prefer year round. And then it just equals out averages out. Yeah, got it.

Yes. You'll make all your money on those contracts going into these next four or five months. So we, we really should not raise the price. When does, when does the, the kind of uptick in jobs come in? Spring is like April for you guys. Oh, end of February. Right. So then I go ahead.

February stays dead. And then like beginning of March is when at least last everything took off.

So I, I would make sure you have everything in place going into February in terms of who you're going to raise, how much it's going to be. And I literally have the emails ready to click send. Right. And even in your, in your software schedule all those jobs from March 1st as if their prices have been increased and they're on the schedule for that. So what we do when we do a price increase is like, okay, we tell them that we know the date's going to be even before we tell them we'll just change the prices on all those jobs. And then the only reason that we even have to touch the account again is if they cancel.

Right.

And so you could literally do that over the winter when you're a little bit slower, because I don't want you doing that in March. I only like, oh man, we got to move everyone's prices up now and change budget hours and all of that during the winter, starting at a certain point.

Right.

And then just know, okay, February 1st, I'm going to tell these customers, like potentially those big ones. Then, you know, February 15th, I'm going to send it all to residential customers. And then I know that literally by March, if a third of my customers leave, I'll replace all of them within a month or two. Because with your website, next spring, like, leads is not going to be the problem. The fact is we need to make sure it's profitable.

Yeah. This past year, even with my crappy little website I built, it was crazy. And for me, answering my phone meant I got jobs because I get people. You're the seventh person I've called and you're the first one that's answered the phone. You're the, you know, we're getting estimates and then two days later I get a call again. Five people are supposed to come and not a single one showed up. So doing those things and then having a nicer website is obviously gonna greatly impact that. I'm more worried about having the capacity to me is what I'm more worried about. Not so much the work this spring.

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Yes. As soon as you're hitting capacity is when we should be raising prices, which I assume is going to happen in February. Right. That's why I'm kind of saying that because it sounds like if you're getting one job a week, you lose one or two here and there. You're probably going to get another 10 or 15 customers between now and February, which you could probably kind of sustain, have this part timer help out a little bit. There's less jobs to do each week because they're bi weekly. You can handle it. But once we hit February, that's when it's like we know what's coming. We've got to make sure that when they come on, they're, we're actually profitable on these jobs.

Would you recommend me getting the second truck for maintenance?

Yeah. This year you're already, you're at capacity with the one truck and one guy. You could probably get to about 16 to 17,000 on the recurring side if you threw an employee in with him. So you could do that. But again, I really believe that you're going to raise prices in February and now that $10,000 route becomes 13,000 and you had a few more jobs in March and you're going to be at, you're going to, even if you have another employee in there, you're going to be at capacity.

Okay. So would you say to get a new truck this year or wait until March?

When do you have two landscape trucks or one landscape truck?

I have mine and then I have.

The maintenance one.

So got the two. Got it. And then you're, you're using your truck for the landscaping. Yeah, got it.

I think what I would personally do is like, for example, I'll show you this, this thing. I'll send you in a second. It's a spreadsheet that's actually going to show you what this price impact is going to do the business. But like.

What I would do is even if you buy the truck and you have to get a payment on it, let's say it's 500 bucks a month.

Right.

I really believe if you align that with a price increase that is liter going to put $3,000 extra of money.

In your pocket a month won't matter.

Exactly. Right. And that's going to take your capacity from probably 15, 16,000amonth in revenue all the way up to 30 by having two trucks. The ability to have four employees inside of those two trucks, that will get you above 30,000. Just on the recurring side, I don't think you, you know, hey, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think you'll get to 30 next spring rush, but you'll probably get a 20 or 25. Right. And so that's going to be above what one truck can do. And even if that second truck that you do buy is mowing for three or four days a week and then helps out with the projects, because that's going to grow as well.

Yeah. Oh, totally. Okay. So. Because all I was thinking was, was getting one before the end of this year and that way it will help out the taxes because you're not going.

To have any problem with taxes because you're not going to have a lot of profits from this year.

Well, I am because in, in June, you know, Tigrin, I entered one of his giveaways and I won the truck. So that got 50 grand in my bank account. So that is all taxable profit.

What if you had to guess right now, end of year for the business, is it going to be on paper? Negative though?

No.

Do you think it'll be like 20, 30,000 profit?

It'll probably be.

Probably 50 or 60 though, because like this month I was doing the math, I was adding everything up. I'm actually, this month I'll generate 38,000 in revenue, not the 30,000 that we had.

So you're doing a lot of projects.

Yeah, after lining all the projects up.

So how did that jump from 26 last week?

Because I did the math.

Right, let's go.

And if we, you know, rebid the jobs at 70 an hour.

Oh, right.

Okay. Do everything. And said, okay, this is what everything's gonna run. Ran everything down. And that's what.

So you're thinking probably you're at 50, 60, at least profit on paper. And then you got this $50,000 gift thing, so probably 110,000, which means your tax liability, you know, minus your deductions is probably going to put you in around like 20 grand for taxes.

And my wife has a good paying job too.

And have you, have you section 179 most of your equipment already?

My current truck is. That saved me last year. And then I bought a dump trailer and I bought two mowers worth 28, 29,000 this year. So those will all be section one write offs to help.

Yeah. Now, did you sell the dump truck or did you take it and now you're having to pay gift tax on it?

I sold it up. Truck got it. So, well.

Oh, right.

He just gave me the cash.

Cash, yeah.

And are you running that by an accountant?

Yeah.

Okay, good, good, good, good.

Yeah, no, totally. Yeah. I called him as soon as I won and I was like, okay, I won. Do I keep the truck and sell it because I can get more money for it or do I just, you know, Tigger and offer me 50 grand? Do I just take it?

Did you set aside the cash for taxes or.

Not really, No.

A lot of credit card debt from stupid purchases. Yeah.

Well, good for you though. Hey, that's a good move.

We got 25, 30,000. Credit card just paid off, so that was amazing.

Okay, so you're concerned about the tax side of things for this coming year. Do you think you'll be okay in terms of cash or do you think you'll need to finance some of that tax liability? Because this is the thing. If you paid off, if you paid off, credit card. Oh, right. Okay, gotcha. Okay. So, like, how can we ramp this thing up to be able to pay that off really?

Well, I'm not so much worried about paying the tax bill. Okay. I'm more worried about if I buy the truck now, even though it's going to sit for a couple months, not being used as much. Is it?

I would do that. I would do that because. Yeah, I would do that. Because honestly, you're gonna only have it sitting probably six weeks.

Right.

Because you guys have such an early spring rush. You're talking like middle of February, maybe end of February. But if you bought it like the last week of December, by the time you, you know, paint it or decal it, get it insured and it's ready to use, it's only gonna be sitting for like five, six weeks. So I would definitely do that. Yeah. 100%.

Yeah. Sounds.

Yeah. Okay.

Dude, that's cool, man. Good for you. Paying off the credit card debt. That was a good move. Right before. We have this inflation stuff. Now people are paying 25% on that stuff.

Yeah, no, it was for you guys, amazing.

That was awesome.

Life changing. But yeah. So the next thing I got to do is wrap my truck and paint my other truck, get them fully decal. That's going to help. And then my goal this month is to have enough cash in the bank, in the account to get a ramp rack for my, the maintenance truck. Because the little enclosed trailer is kind of falling apart. So that's kind of the goal. But on paper, it looks like I'm going to profit like 12 to 15,000 this month.

Cool.

From what I found, like, it's like, you know.

Yeah. Like, so paying the taxes, like you said, by April shouldn't be a problem. It's if we kind of reduce it somewhat, though, by buying the truck late December, that would be helpful. And again, like, I don't mind because you probably don't want to take a cash position of, you know, 15, $20,000 of a truck, even if you got debt on a truck, which, you know me, I don't like it. But if you know you're going to, and you've dedicated and you've already ran the numbers on what your. Your increase in. In profit is going to be from raising prices, I'm okay with it. Especially because if you buy in December, your first payment probably won till February 1 or in February 15. So as long as you schedule your pricing increase correct, I'm okay with it. Because it's literally going to double your capacity and you're going to absolutely need it. You're almost hitting capacity now with the one truck by the fact that he's full and he's having a part timer help him, and you're in the slow season.

Yeah, Right. Well, there's a property cleanup. I have to do it, and then I have to coordinate with him to use the equipment on it. So it just. It ends up being a mess. So.

And just knowing 38,002 trucks, you're at capacity. Right. So rule of thumb, 10 to $12,000 is like the max someone can typically make per month as an employee. So if you put two in a truck, it comes down a little bit to more like 9 to 10,000amonth. So again, 18 to $20,000 per truck, you're like, right at capacity. I'd imagine those trucks are basically moving all day long, five, six days a week.

Yeah. Okay. So second truck. Um, and then wait on raising prices. I mean, obviously there's a couple accounts where it's like. Like there's one, he's spending an hour each week, and it's 150 bucks a month. It's got to go up. So stuff like that, I need to.

But does that go to bi weekly, though, during the winter months or not?

Somewhat. But he's more of a irritating customer, so he wants.

I wouldn't worry. I would definitely raise that one, like, for example, because it comes right to your Mind. But I would just think in terms of aggregate, you got to raise your prices on everybody because that number gets juicy where it's literally going to become two to three thousand dollars a month, it pays for the truck, et cetera. Right. Like when people start overthinking price increases, they start raising like oh, raise this one and this one and all of a sudden they're only raising prices on like 20% of their customers. And it's like if you just take the time that you spent trying to figure all that out and just gone and got more sales, you would have done better. Right. So blanket numbers, 100%. Yes.

10%, 20%, whatever.

I would do at least 20%. Just the past two years because of inflation, we've lost 20%. So if you've been doing them for two years for the same price, we're just getting back what inflation's 8 from us over the past 24 months.

So I would do at least 20%. That's you know, if it's $150 a month, we're looking at what, an extra 30 bucks? 180 now it becomes, and if you time that when they're all, they're calling seven other people and not no one's picking up the phone, guess what they're going to do? You know what, we're just going to stick with them.

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Totally. Okay, sounds good.

So wait on the main thing is, the main thing is just have it already in time. Like I literally want you to have the jobs from whether it be March 1st or whenever you decide, I want them scheduled at the new price. So that way it's a matter of there is no work to be done during spring rush when it happens. Besides canceling someone who calls in and doesn't want the work. And at that point you're like who cares? I just got 10 people in the past week. I'm like who? Who cares about these People.

Okay, sounds good. So one more question real quick. I know you got to go. Should I right now double my crew up for maintenance, add another guy full time on that, which will probably drop into four days a week.

And then if you're adding one or two jobs a week, then yes, you're going to probably need it because by the time even January rolls around and you get another, another truck, you're going to have an extra 15, 20 customers by then and thought of it too.

So Mondays he's doubled and now Wednesday afternoon sees double because Wednesdays is like full. I saw that. The part timer starting every Wednesday starting this week. But should I have someone full time with him? And that way he can be trained up. So that way as soon as spring comes, I can split those two crews and I can have two separate maintenance.

I'm okay with that. Just keep in mind that's a very unprofitable way that you're doing it because you're not raising your prices at capacity, you're just increasing capacity by hiring somebody. Right. So when you hit capacity, if you're not profitable, that's usually when I say, hey, raise prices. So you're kind of kicking the can down the field a bit. But based upon the numbers you're telling me of 12,000amonth in profit this month, I think I'd give you the pass on that because I do want you to raise the prices after this winter when you're kind of profitable on these less profitable customers, like get your, you know, get some squeeze out of the juice, then raise them in spring rush. So I'd give you a pass on it as long as from a cash perspective, you're okay. But I don't really think the cash perspective of the business is where I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about just the cash flow as the business is growing and it being so tight every single month.

So maybe I was profitable. Maybe I double them up in January.

Yeah, the thing is, by then you've now increased capacity using the second truck, right? So you have the second truck. I'm more interested in the next, you know, 10 weeks of October, November, December, taking advantage of these months to maybe throw an employee in that one truck. And now instead of 10, 11,000amonth in revenue, and maybe they do 13, 14. And again, if you can increase that capacity by having the employee now when you raise prices in February, you're now flexing even more to probably 17, 80, 18,000 just by raising prices.

I would give you the pass as long as you're comfortable on from a cash flow or cash in the bank perspective. If that's really, really tight. Just know that by adding an employee, you're adding capacity without it being profitable work.

Yeah, no, totally. Okay. And I know because I. I need to sell. I have a 52 inch zero turn, a commercial toro, one that I bought and I probably shouldn't have, but then I just got a stand on because.

I was gonna say 20, $28,000 in mower does not sound fun.

Yeah.

In two mowers.

Yeah. So the Mercy, the commercial zero turn was all I could find. Here in California, they're very restrictive on emissions. So that was like all that was available in the state. Something someone ordered. They waited 18 months and then when it came, they decided not to. So that was like 16,000. Right. And it worked.

Do you owe on that or do you have that out on it? Okay, so you're basically going to sell it and basically get rid of the debt.

Exactly, yeah. Because I got the 36 inch stand on, which can be used in. My brother can use it, tow it in the little enclosed trailer, use it, rent the ramp rack, use it on most of the accounts. So that's kind of what I, I switched everything over to. So once I sell that, that'll free up enough money to buy a, you know, to cover a good chunk of a payment on a new truck.

It'll probably be almost equivalent just because the amount as well as the terms on it on that equipment's probably three years versus five years on a truck.

It's four years, zero interest. 85amonth.

Got it. How much is it?

385Amonth.

Three hundred and eighty five. Yeah. So yeah, you're probably 150 for a truck. The 150, 200 depending on what you buy. But you know that, you know, that'll also help with your debt to income ratio with getting the truck payment as well. So it all hinges on the price increase though. Because I would literally be saying like all of this is a no go in terms of hiring and getting another truck if we don't have a solid. Yeah, because. Because I'm very concerned about the cash flow throughout March, April and May if we don't raise prices.

Yeah, no, totally. Because. Especially because I don't know how you guys do it, but I bill at the end of the month. So if I double my capacity, I'm paying twice the expenses for the entire month. That's kind of what screwed me these past few months was I got two huge Accounts, and then they're the ones like the cemeteries through the government, through the county. So I send the bill and I get paid 30, 45 days later.

Yeah.

And it's like covering the. Yeah. So that's just.

Well, just that contract alone. Let's assume we lose it. Like, let's assume, first of all, we lose it because they potentially might not find anyone else and they might pay more. Let's assume that they do lose it, you do lose it. Because they go with 1500 guy. Just keep in mind that probably unlock $3000 worth of capacity for you to just go get new customers. Right. Which is what you want to do in spring. So just commit to it 100%, know exactly what you're going to raise them all to. And then maybe there's a couple like now that you raise, because if you're losing money on these projects or these, these mowing customers and contracts throughout the winter months, you definitely got to raise them now. So there's a few, like, right off the bat, you're like, hey, if I hire somebody else, we're just losing more money. Then you got to do those now. But the rest of them, if you think, hey, we're doing half as much work next few months, let's keep those on and then raise in February.

Okay, sounds good. I will work on that then, and I'll check in with you next week.

What software are you using again?

Carter Jobber.

Cool. So you, you know how to, like, sketch, you know, be able to raise the price on the jobs after a certain date and all that. Good stuff.

Yeah. Okay, perfect. Yeah. Because I was going to do service autopilot, and then Lee said you guys were switching away from that eventually. So I was like, well.

Because I definitely want to do the franchise, but I would like to be able to.

I think the main thing right now is like, you know, if you're going to get that much profit this month, for example, like, we just got to stack cash. Because next spring, if you're actually going to go from what we did last spring, 10, 15,000amonth in revenue, and we're going to shoot for 50, 60, which is very much in Reason. If you're doing 38,000 this month, that's going to take cash, right? So, you know, having another truck, those three trucks alone, like, that's going to put us around that $60,000 in terms of capacity, Right. So it's definitely there just a matter of, like, if we can stack cash, I'd feel better about it. And then if we can From a cash flow perspective, raise the prices, you'll be in a good spot.

Would you say it's more important to stack cash or to pay off debt? So, like, should I try and get this winter all my debt paid down or just try and come out of the winter with 20, 30 grand in the bank?

I would convert your debt from the mower into the truck. Truck. Because your asset utilization we so much better on the truck right now. It's just sitting there. Right. So if you. Let's use it a couple hours a week versus we know in March we're gonna use that second truck 30, 40 hours a week at least.

Right.

So what you're. I'm trying to think is like, especially if you need a cheaper truck is like, how do we flip that 380 into a 450 or 500 truck payment and literally now turn that dead weight, 400amonth into actual profit and now pricing at jobs where we're really profitable on them. So I'm okay with growth, especially if it's going to be profitable. I'd be very scared again of all of this if you getting more truck payments, more trucks, more employees. And we weren't planning on raising prices because I know the cash flow is just not there right now.

Yeah, totally. Okay.

No, cool. All right, brother. I look forward to seeing you next week.

One question real quick.

Yeah.

Is it possible to get the like for Augusta if I join the franchise? The color of the trucks and stuff, is it possible to get that type of color? And that way when I. Because right now everything's yellow. That way when I wrap and paint the truck, I'm not having to do in six months rewrap it and repaint it. Is that something that.

Just send an email to Lee. He can get that to you.

Okay, awesome.

He'll send you like a paint swatch so that anywhere you go, they can just match it up.

Okay, awesome. Sounds good.

All right, brother. Take care. Have a good one.

This has been the Mike Candies podcast. Now you have some ideas on how to take your business to the next level. And if you liked what you heard, we have tons of lectures, interviews, and more over at the Mike Andes YouTube channel. That'll be right up your alley. That's all we have for you today. We'll see you next time.