Business Bootcamp: Carter's First Zoom Call

Welcome back to the Mike Andes Podcast, where we discuss the ins and outs of owning a small business. If you're new here, the Mike Andes Podcast is all about taking your business to the next level. For the next couple of episodes, we're going to have one Focus Business Bootcamp. We've been challenging four different home service business owners to overcome their challenges and build their business into something great. Part of the challenge is zoom Call chickens. We do. Along the way, Mike has tons of great advice in there for anyone that runs a small business. So here's what we're getting into. We're talking to Carter from Rough Cuts Lawn Care out of Yuba City, California. Carter is doing a lot of work for almost no profit. And the problem is pretty clear. They're setting the price is too low and they're worried about the customers jumping ship when they do finally raise them. He needs to learn that the customers he loses when he raises prices. Those are the customers you don't want to keep around. As always, you can find Aldous and more over at the Mike Andes YouTube channel. Without further ado, here's the first call with Carter from Rough Cuts Lawn Care.

Hey, everyone, it's Mike Andes, and today we're showing the extended version of last week's episode of Business Boot Camp. We're going to be talking to Carter, who's already running a successful business in California doing lawn care and landscaping, and he wants to grow. However, he's working 60, 70, 80 hours a week right now and not making any profit. So we're trying to help him with Business Boot Camp over the next 30 days, trying to make sure his business is more successful and more profitable. However, he's got to raise his prices and he's got to make sure that he's not working so many hours without seeing any money in the bank. Without any further delay, let's go check out the full zoom call. Carter, how's it going?

Hey. Pretty good. How about yourself?

Good, good. How's your week?

Oh, busy.

Very good. Well, we only have 15 minutes, so I better jump right into it.

Sounds good.

So I had talked about earlier this week about trying to get kind of a breakdown of some of the revenues and kind of the goals for October. Did you kind of come up with those?

Yeah, a little bit. Let me pull it up a little bit better.

Let me see here. So for October, right now, invoices owed is right at like 4700 bucks.

Then I have 9500 worth of maintenance accounts, but those aren't due until you Know, mid of November, I have about $18,000. With the projects lined up, that number may change and go up depending on how efficient I am with two new guys. Just depends on how fast I get them up to. Up to speed and in shape with everything.

So is that looking like 27,000 or so in revenue for this month or what? What's your projection for this month then?

So, yeah, probably about 27,000 total, but obviously it won't be in the bank until the end of the following month.

And then how many total employees we have? I know you said you added two more. So how many will total three full.

Time, one part time.

Got it. Okay. And if I remember correctly, last time, you're. You're charging $60 per hour. Is that kind of what you're shooting for?

Correct. Yeah.

And what are you paying those guys per hour?

So my Highest paid is 25, and then the others are 18, and then the part time is 16.

Got it. Okay.

Okay.

All right. So.

The main thing is we've got to somehow figure out how we're four guys.

That's not. I should be making. Grossing like 40 this month.

Well, yeah. So, like. So let's just run the math on this. So if we have four guys, let's say that out of that 27,000. Let's say that 24 of it is labor revenue because you got materials and all the rest of it.

So if it's a 24,000, because one of them has. I mean, just the materials on one is like six grand.

Oh, really?

No, I take it back. I did not include that one. That one. I probably won't be starting this month. Never mind. You're good. Yeah.

So you thinking maybe in.

In.

In labor revenue, maybe $24,000 on those current ones you got for October?

Probably $22,000.

Okay, let's go with that to 22,000. All right, 22,000. We divide that by. Let's just call it four guys. So that's 5,500 per employee. How many? And so if they're full time, that's 40. So let's divide that out. So got 5500 is what they'd be making per employee. It's full time. Assume that just the full timers work. And then if we take. Let's just call it average of $20 per hour plus taxes, $24 per hour times 160, that's 3,800 per employee. So right now, out of the 5,500 that they'd be creating 3,800 of that's going to go out to wages. So we're looking at like about two thirds of total revenue. Total labor revenue is going out the door to wages right now. So that says one of two things. One, either prices are too low or there's massive inefficiencies happening. Because I want that number needs to be below 40%.

Yeah, right. The goal is like 30%, right? A third.

Yeah, that'd be ideal. But remember, we're looking at just labor revenue. Right. We're not including like total revenue. Then it'd be more like 30% probably. But if you can get under 40, usually you're going to be much more efficient. But that means that we are either a 15 to $20 per hour under bid per hour or it means that there is 20 to 30% of our day being used inefficiently right now.

Okay, I'll have to go through the jobs again.

Go through all my job notes again and see.

Go through the bidding process again and make sure I, I got them correct.

But part, part of it is, honestly though, like when I look at $60 per hour and then I look at 18 or 25, for example, let's assume that someone is 75% efficient in their day, right. Which means they're actually on the job 75% of the day actually doing work. So just by doing that, let's say we take the guy who's doing 25 bucks an hour and if we say let's call it 28 because of taxes, and then we say, okay, well out of the 60, he's 75% efficient. That means he's going to be effective $45 per working hour to the business. Well, if 45 is what he's making per working hour, like on the clock, and we're get, we're paying him 28, we're literally talking about immediately 70% of our revenue going out the door to wages. That's just doesn't count. Like trucks fuel nothing. Right.

Right. Now my overhead, well, so my overhead for me and one guy was like 15 an hour. So now it's with four guys. Obviously that's going to drop down quite a bit, but still that doesn't leave. Leave much to cover gas.

Right? Well, because you got, you got, let's say 28 with taxes, you got another $5 per hour for, let's just call it overhead across, you know, blended across the company. All of a sudden you're running just the cost of, you know, running the business and their labor is so high, there's Just no margin there. There's absolutely no margin. And that's, you know, there's, there's just no profit. What's your close ratio right now? Do you know what that number is?

I lost the check. It was like 83.

Okay.

Something like that.

Would you be opposed to growing a little bit slower next year but being like really focusing on profit? Because if you could bring that number down to 50% but raise your prices from 60 to 75 or 80, it completely fixed the profit issue.

I think I could, I could probably get away with 70. And that's what I've been bidding all the new maintenance accounts this past week. Past two weeks, I've got five new accounts. I got 100 of them at doing like 70, 75 bucks an hour.

So I think I could bring the maintenance accounts. I definitely could bring up the projects is what I'd be more worried about. But I also haven't been doing that many projects. I just. Because I just got my contractor's license. So I was trying to stay away from those until that all.

I'd recommend trying to move your minimum to 75. I really would. I don't think it's going to affect your, your close ratio as much as you think. But ultimately right now growth is literally going to cost you money. Because at 60, the day you move out of the field and you become overhead, the business will start. Stop. Will start losing money.

Yeah.

Like the only reason it's staying afloat right now is because you're working your brains out and a lot of your hours are still out in the field.

So all the money I'm generating is basically covering my guys.

It's just keeping the business afloat. If you literally paid someone to do your physical labor and then you stepped out of the business, it's not making money. Right. And so what happens? The vicious cycle that is created is used just to keep working harder and harder and it's just keeping the business afloat. And that's what's happening.

Yeah. Okay.

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Those contracts, though, like, you can't raise prices right now, I would imagine. Do they renew at a certain time of the year or how does that work their contracts?

But not, it's nothing signed. It's just, you know, monthly amount agreement that it's, you know, 100 bucks a month or 125amonth for X, Y and Z. You know, you pay year round regardless of what you know. Obviously some months are more work than others.

So I just raised about half of them two months ago to get everybody up to 60 an hour. Because a lot from when I first started, when I was like, oh, if I can make 40 bucks an hour, that's 80 grand a year. That's, you know, all I need. And.

For a solo guy in a 91s 10, that was just fine. But once I started going into, you know, employees and stuff, 40 bucks an hour doesn't, doesn't do anything right.

Because right now you have, if I remember correctly, like 90 customers. Or is that right?

Uh, so I have about 50, but I have two big, big ones. A 4 acre cemetery and then like a 3 acre apartment complex.

And what's your hourly rate, do you think, on those ones? Is it considerably lower just because the volume of work, the two.

So the cemetery, I kind of bid wrong. So it. I'm making like 40 an hour. The only reason I've kept it is because in the winter time, I'll have three months of only two visits a month and it's the same amount. So I figured I'm gonna keep it because I know the wintertime is gonna be a struggle. And that way I can at least keep my guys busy and have somewhat cash flow. And then this spring, right now it's at 1700amonth. This spring I need to raise it to like 28, 2900 just to make it my 60 an hour.

Okay. And then the other one I'm making.

Really good on, it was our first. We did our first time this week, and that equaled out to about 80 an hour. Got it. I bid as well, the.

All the contracts you're currently on, I'm assuming, but correct me if I'm wrong, the next few months are actually your most profitable because there's the least amount of work needing done. Okay. So really we don't want to raise prices, honestly, probably until February next year, I'd imagine.

Yeah, I mean, there's a Couple that I need to.

Right.

And there's a couple with the.

Even with less work, they're still not profitable.

Well, not profitable. And then there's a few that are just such a pain to deal with that I can bring them up to hopefully get rid of them. Yep, yep.

Yeah. Like, I. Honestly, if you got five new customers this week, that's 10% of your, your customer base. Right. Like, I am not opposed to you raising prices on everyone now.

Okay.

Because the reason is because the grass is starting to grow again and you're gonna have this window of time with the whole leave situation and the grass is growing, you could probably raise all your prices. I guarantee you, if you lost 10 or 15 your customers, you'd recoup them within three to four weeks at your current rate of growth. Yeah, but like doing that would completely change the business.

Well, right, because right now, like for the, the maintenance accounts, right, he's generating 9, 500amonth. And that's one guy, basically 45 man hours a week because. So this was the first week of everything changing over. We had a couple issues with mowers, but he got everything done. It was right about 45 man hours because we had an extra guy on. On one of those days. So like he still has room to add. Add on. So I think the maintenance, because it's consistent and I'm, I've done it, I bid it a lot more. I know more of how to actually estimate it correctly because sometimes with like property cleanups, I suck at estimating. I don't think I've ever done one where I've actually made more than like 40 bucks an hour. So. But the maintenance accounts is pretty consistent.

Okay. Yeah, because like 9, 500 isn't so bad for one guy for a month.

45 hours a week though, that's 9180 divided by 180. Still $52, which is not horrible. If you take 95 and divide it by. By 160 and I just got a.

36 inch stand on okay. For him. And I'm gonna be building my own ramp rack kind of set up in the next week or so. So we can take that. He'll have a 30 inch push and a 21 inch push. So I know that those numbers are going to come down a little bit. Once we get that, that's going to.

Okay, so it sounds like then most the pricing issues is probably on the project side of things.

Probably. And I can go through it all again and see I might not have. I might have Left too many days open because I know there is a few days I'm going to be on vacation towards the end of the month. So I'll probably have five non working days for the rest of the month. So I know that that's going to skew. Skew it a lot as well.

Yeah, I'm not really too concerned about the totals for the month. I'm mostly looking at each project like, what is our labor revenue divided out by how many hours did we work on the job? Right. And was that accurate? Right. Because like at an 83% close ratio, I know that either A, we should be growing like hand over fist which five jobs in the week. That sounds good. But if you're closing like all of your jobs, there's money to be had that we're just leaving on the table. Right. And the only way to make up for that deficit right now is you working more hours, like longer and harder, et cetera. When, when, if we just immediately raise the prices on four guys that are working, it's to say 160 hours in the month. Multiply that by four, that's 640. Let's add you in there too. So another 60, 160. Let's just call 800 hours in the month and if we charge, let's just call it $15 more per hour, go from 60 to 75.

They actually.

12 grand, that's all on the top.

And that's just all profit. That's where your profit is. This is your profit. This is what you should be making every month. Right. And if you could do half of that, that's where our five grand a month comes into play.

Yeah. Okay.

Right.

So bring it. And the nice thing is all of those projects, because I haven't had my contractor's license, I haven't given them a firm number. It's been, here's a ballpark range and I calculated that at 60. So I can say, hey, you know, materials have gone up, labor's gone up, it ends up being, you know, a little bit more and factor in that 70, 75 an hour and you don't.

Even have to raise the prices of current projects. Right. Like if they're on the schedule, like, hey, we've sold the job, let's go.

Oh, because you're ballparking, I see. You're saying all I gave him was.

You know, it's going to be between five and six thousand dollars or it's going to be between, you know, this range. Because in California you can't do.

You can't unless you have the contractor's license. Well, I'm glad you got that. Goodness gracious. Let's go. Okay, good. So process. But yeah, no, no, I know it's a pain in the butt.

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Training.

So I can raise the labor on the projects.

And then I think also I run around a lot and waste so much time trying to do these little projects for 100 bucks, 200 bucks, and it's just, it's not worth it.

I mean, are those on your maintenance contracts? Are those on those like brand new customers that you like?

Someone calls, you know, my valves leaking and I go out and fix it and it's, you know, an hour labor and 10 bucks of parts and it's a hundred bucks like that, just.

And so when they call us like something like irrigation, for example, like do you tell them you have a minimum charge or an hourly rate? Like, how do you tell them how you're gonna charge them?

I was doing 65 for the first or 75 for the first hour, 65 each hour after. But that's not, I mean, it's not worth my time to go to the store, get the parts I need or whatever.

It's not worth your time to answer the phone call.

Like, why not do something like you just have an hourly rate, but then you have a service fee, like a service charge. Go ahead.

I want to do is 150. Just say it again. I want to do 150 bucks just to show up.

I was gonna say 100. If you say 150, I'm all for it.

Because like right now, if I have all these big projects lined up, I'd rather be in a job eight hours, make it 70 an hour than going and doing four jobs trying to squeeze out 70. It's just not.

Well, it's not the, it's not the hour that you're charging there. It's the fact that it takes you 20 minutes to drive there, 20 minutes back, 15 minutes to set up their project. You're leaving your crew, they mess up, they slow down. At the current project, it's now cost you really about four or five hours.

Yeah.

When you figure all that in. Right. So I would be a hundred percent game for that. Just say look, it's gonna cost you 150 bucks for me to show up and then you know, 75 per hour once I'm there.

Yeah.

I guarantee you people will still take you up on it.

Oh, I think so too because I, I mean I've raised my prices and.

No one, no one cares, man. Like so, you know, I know, you know, if you're trying to fill 2 capacity on the mowing side, I understand why you'd say hey, like let's keep the prices on that one as long as you think you're making okay enough. But like anything under 60 is like I almost guarantee we can't scale it, it can't make money. We should be shooting for 75 at least. @.

Least. So then after the inefficiencies are cut out, what should my goal be like bottom.

Line.

On the same, on the same amount of projects that like. So for example, if we were at 22,000 in labor revenue for this, for October, I truly believe without increasing the amount of employees you have, that number gets to 30,000. Easily. Easily. Because when you talk about four full time employees working, I'm thinking in my mind that's a $40,000 per month business. So if I can get from 22 to 30 and 32 in labor, then tack on my, you know, materials, et cetera, like that $6,000 project next month, that's gonna put me, put you around at 38 to 40,000amonth in.

Revenue. Yeah.

Okay. And that's without moving a single dollar more in wages, expenses. That's where your profit is sitting. The extra 20 to 25% is what your profit margin is going to.

Become.

Because my goal right now is I want to get through this winter, try and build up the mowing crude. Two guys full time and then that way this spring I can go buy another truck, split them. Because I know spring is going to grow like crazy. Because I built my website last year about this time. It didn't really start picking up until.

No, probably mid.

Summer. Really Like June, July. This year was funny. Like I remember even in California they said there was a kind of a later rush this year. In general. Was the weather off in the spring a.

Bit. Well, we don't really have.

Weather. Yeah, it's true. Right. It's just like we had like.

Two weeks of rain for the entire year last.

Year. True. Right.

Right. But we had rain a couple of weeks ago, which has kind of started everything growing. But I just, I actually just yesterday got the.

The proof for the you guys website, lawn care, web.

Design. Okay, when is that going.

Up? So I just got the copy of it to review yesterday, so I gotta, I need to look through it more, but I think it looks good. So I know that'll help a lot because before I was just. I just hired a company to basically manage my Google business page. Posting pictures, you know, doing that kind of stuff. That worked great at the beginning, but now it's kind of slept off.

So. So let's.

For this week, like, honestly, if this entire month the only thing we do is raise your prices, it'll be the best thing ever. I like. It really is. I know it's like a mental. And we always make excuses why we're not even the fact like, okay, I want to fill the mowing route. I guarantee you raise your prices. You, you keep most of your customers and you continue to grow the mowing route. And now there's an extra two or three thousand dollars of sheer profit on that. Because right now on that 9,500, you're probably making about a thousand dollars to $1,500 a month in profit. If you go from 9,500, raise the price and are doing 11. 11,000. Just, just by raising it slightly, you just doubled your profit on that mowing.

Route.

Yeah. So like that, that is a huge thing. So what I want to do this coming week is take the projects that you currently have and figure out the estimating for at 60. I want you to do them, whatever it is on this coming week and then let's charge them at 75. And I'm gonna, we're gonna run the math on the project and you're gonna see like, I want you to just convince yourself of the fact that, okay, literally by just one number change, you're gonna like literally get a thousand dollars extra, fifteen hundred dollars extra on a project. It just is that way. And so if I can convince you on the projects, I'd love to convince you on the mowing side because I really do believe you would keep 85 to 90% of your.

Customers. My only fear with the mowing side is because I just raised them all two or three months.

Ago. The other 50%. At least. The other half percent, we got to raise at least. Oh yeah.

100%. What about ones that I just raised. But, like, as I'm realizing I need to charge a lot more, is it too soon? Raised two or three months.

Later. We. We've been raising every three months at some of our locations. That's the way inflation's moving. What happened is you just didn't raise enough the first time. Right. And so that's what everyone does. Like, oh, man, I'm gonna do it. Like, a few dollars a cut. It's like, no, just peel the band aid off. If they're going to take you at $3 per cut increase, they'll take you at 7 or.

8.

Yeah. So just do it now. And so, you know you're ahead of inflation. Right.

But honestly, like, when you're getting five new customers a week and you live in California, where I know you can kind of keep growing throughout the winter, quote, unquote, months, there's just no reason when you have 50 customers to be concerned about losing five or 10 of them. If you lost 20% of your customers, you'd be down to 40, and you'd fill it back up in two.

Weeks.

Yeah. And it'd be at the prices that you want, and you'd literally be at $12,000 a month in revenue within those two.

Weeks. Okay. Yeah, I'll go through. I have my guys record how much time each account took this week. Cool. I told them that they have to if they want to get paid because they. They're kind of lazy. Well, he doesn't remember all the time, so I told him he has to get that done. And that way I can kind of go through and do an audit of everything and see where I'm coming in at. So I'll. I'll do that. I'll go through the projects and see what, you know, what I.

Have. No one has ever in the history of mankind regretted raising their prices ever. So I just guarantee you if we. If we peel the band aid off, that it'll be like, oh, you know what? And the customers that leave are the ones you don't.

Want.

Yeah. They're the ones that are already a pain in the butt anyways. Like you said, you're like, I'm going to raise the prices, and the ones I don't want. If you do it across the whole board, the ones you don't, they'll leave anyways and you'll keep the best.

Customers.

Okay.

So.

Raise prices. Sorry, I'm just making a list. You're.

Good. Yeah. So if you want to go really brave and do the mowing, let's Go. I guarantee you won't regret it. And then on the project side, what I want to do is let's actually look at the jobs that were. Get completed this coming week. And then let's look at. Okay, what's the difference if we charge them at 60? What's the difference if we charge them at.

75? This Kevin woods is all hourly, so it's 60 per man.

Hour. So you've already bid it like, that.

Way.

Yeah. And you're saying you would raise that to 75 though, or.

Not? I wouldn't until the project's done. Because I don't want to be halfway through a project, be like, hey, I know we started at 60 and I'm gonna have to bump you. I. I don't feel that's.

Right.

Totally. I want to get the project done. And then if he has future projects, you.

Know. Yep. Yeah, that's fair. If you've already told him a certain hourly.

Rate. Yeah, you can't change like three, six. It should be. Should be right at fourth. 4,000. No, three days. It should be right at. Yeah, 4,000. 4,500 for revenue for three days.

Okay. And how far are you booked.

Out again, Carter.

With projects? I got work until probably beginning of December, mid.

December. Oh, yeah. Dude, we gotta raise prices. This is gonna be a slam dunk. Let's go. Yeah, like, there's just nothing that's going to. To hold you back if you raise prices. Like 75. Not regret it. 100. Like, I think. I honestly believe, trust me, within a month you're gonna be like, man, I should have gone to 80 or 85. Guarantee it. Guarantee.

It. Dang.

It. And what's. What's so cool. What's so cool about California is I'm not worried about a winter slowdown. You can keep doing this throughout the next six.

Months. Last year it did slow down a little bit, like mid January. And all of February was like, dead. All I had was my maintenance accounts. Obviously this year, though, with having a bigger business, more online presence, it's going to be a little bit different. But I kind of wanted, hopefully if I can turn it really profitable to make good profit off of the projects, then hopefully I can get. Have enough tucked away so this spring I can really, really blow.

Up. I'm not concerned about the growth side. Right. Especially with the website. I know it happens when that spring rush kind of comes and you have a website that's ranking.

Well. I'm not concerned about that advertising. It's the having another.

Truck. But see, the Thing is, when you raise your prices and say on that 9500, it becomes 11,000. That Delta 1500 covers a truck payment and even the initial upfront. Like, let's assume you finance the entire thing. You. It's covered. Right. So fixing the model now, make it more profitable, allows the growth to happen sustainably instead of just like constantly. Cash is like, you know, falling through your fingers all the.

Time. Yeah.

Yeah. And then I'm way over time. So. Go.

Ahead. Question real quick. Sorry. All of my accounts, I bill on the last day of the month. 15th is when they're due by about a quarter of them. Wait until the 18th, 20th, 25th. I hit them with late fees. It doesn't change. Would you recommend shortening that to like seven days.

Or. I don't think that's the biggest issue. I think pricing is far more important. But I.

Would. It's a big issue for cash flow, though, because I'm trying to cash. Trying to run the whole month. Basically all the money from the projects is paying my labor, and then I get a little bit of a payday the beginning of the month, and then it just kind of.

Yeah. The thing is, if we add an extra, you know, $8,000 a month in straight profit when we bill at the end of the month, that's going to help our cash flow massively because we'll have cash in the bank. The second thing is. Yes, absolutely. It's always good to shorten that time frame. So we have it seven days. I know that they got. So what that does, when they see the invoice, they're either writing a check or clicking, you know, credit card. And if you're not going to do the credit card thing or like enforce it, just make sure it's seven days. And then that way it's like when they see the invoice, they know they have to pay immediately. But I truly believe, like, if you have enough in the bank and you. And it doesn't matter, as long as they're paying, you're okay. And so, yes, it's important to be. I just feel like some people are chasing their tail when it comes to cash flow. It's like, I got my. I gotta get my cash in faster. It's like, great, but it's still unprofitable.

Like.

Right. So let's fix the machine and then you can fine tune it with the cash flow thing. So that way it's even.

Better. Okay. All right, sounds good. So this week I will work on those things and then we'll See.

How you will shock me. You will shock me. If you raise all your prices by this time next week. It'd be amazing. It'd be.

Great. We'll.

See. How do.

You. How do you tell the customer you're going to raise the price again after three months? Do you just say, hey, here's your new.

Rate? Or just like, yeah, I do it in two sentences. It'd be a matter of going forward. Your new rate will be this. If you would have question. If you have questions about that, feel free to contact us.

And right before that, one more sentence that says, due to the rising cost of wages and inflation and for us to be able to have a sustained high level of quality service and training our employees, here's what your new price is. And don't ask them. Like, if you have questions or if you. If you want more information, call us. Just like, your new price going forward is X. This is because of massive inflation, the fuel costs and the cost of our employees. And we want to be able to. To have a sustainable profit margin, to be able to serve you for years to come. Like, that's all you got to do. Two or three sentences max. Roll with it. You'll get one out of ten of them. They're going to.

Cancel. I might do that to all of.

Them. Let's.

Go. We'll see.

I took so much of your.

Time. You're good, Carter. Have a good one, brother. Have a great.

Weekend.

Thanks.

This has been the Mike Andes podcast. Now you have some ideas on how to take your business to the next level. If you like what you heard, we have tons of lectures, interviews and more over at the Mike Andes YouTube channel. It'll be right up your alley. That's all we have for you today. We'll see you next.

Time.

Sa.