Buying Other Lawn Care Business

Hey everyone, this is Mike with landscape businesscourse.com we haven't had one of these for a long time because rarely am I doing these phone calls where I can actually record them. So Tobias, the caller today was kind enough to allow us to record this one. I cut out some portions that were more personal and weren't really pertinent. So we cut that out. As far as what is today's show really is about is gonna help those of you who are considering buying another company. And just kinda my thought process as I talked to Tobias about thinking about the numbers and whether or not he should or should not buy and looking at the valuation of that company. So that's about it. I wanna just jump into this. And I know since that last episode I made about buying company and the valuations and things like that, I've had a whole bunch of emails, but I haven't had anyone that I've been able to record the phone calls for. So I went ahead and went wanted to add this one in there today. So it's been a little bit long and we kind of do talk about other stuff too. But the general gist that I want to get you to get from this one is if you are wanting to buy another company or if you're wanting to sell your business, this is going to be something that's going to be really important for you. So before we go ahead and play that, let's go ahead and make sure you're signed up for the conference, which is in January. Landscapebusinesscourse.com conference well, you'll hear us talk a little bit about it today with Tobias, who will also be there, is planning to come to the conference in January, three days. It's gonna be absolutely fantastic. So let's go ahead and jump into this episode though today with Tobias. He's in Camino island, which is not far from where I'm at. And let's go ahead and jump into it. Here we go.

The business has grown, you know, I mean right now my QuickBooks, you know, is same. This year I've done 100 and like, you know, 25, 000 and like 70 of this net profit. And most of the year, I mean, for the first couple years I was basically doing everything on my own. Like I was doing this 100, 186 a unit apartment that was pretty heavily wooded on my own basically. And I mean it was just wrecking my body.

Yeah.

But so now, I mean now I kind of got some systems in place and then what I really Wanted to talk to you about is about, you know, this guy approached me about buying his business.

Yeah.

Basically. I haven't really gotten any numbers from him yet, but he's kind of like a family friend and he has, you know, it's a pretty. I like the idea because it's. He's had a lot of. Some of these clients he's had for over 20 years. And he. It's just like. It's all like, really tight maintenance, you know, smaller yards in and out. He's been doing it with three guys. He said that his. He hasn't told me his profit, but he said his sales are just under 200 grand. And the thing is, it's in my hometown, which I was just. Just thinking about kind of relocating back there anyways because it's not far from where I'm at right now. So I could basically run two cells because my other guys live right in Stanwood, which is like 15 minutes from where I'd be. Right.

How much does he want? Do you know?

He hasn't told me yet, and I haven't thought I asked him. I was going to tonight, but I figured I'd talk to you first.

Yeah. Like, any deal is good, just depending on the numbers, really. So, you know, it's always comes down to, obviously, is he gonna give you equipment? Like, whenever we bought. I always take the equipment out of the equation because it's just. You don't know how it's been treated. And then too, like, you don't need to have it. You can always get your own stuff. Yeah.

I have a feeling he's gonna want a pretty high value because I think the business is like his baby.

Yeah. You know, and so. And like, the problem. The thing is too, like, if it is his baby and he's been running it for 20 years, like, he's not. At the end of the day, he's not gonna get the valuation he wants. Right. So sometimes you have to let him sit over the winter. And then, like, usually the best buys we've got is. Or like I've seen too, from the course members is when people come spring and they don't. They've been trying to sell it all winter and they realize, like, oh, my word, I gotta either go start mowing these people's lawns or, you know, get rid of this thing.

Yeah. And I think, like, right now he's got his brother. He's been like his main guy for years. And he told me today on the phone, he hasn't really even talked to his brother about this yet because he's not sure where he's gonna go. And the other thing he says is it's like he's moving on to some other projects. He brought property in cedar woolly and he's gonna start milling cedar fence boards.

Oh, wow.

So. So he's trying, like this new business, you know, adventure, and I think he's pretty confident it's going to be successful. And so he even brought up like, I wonder what. I wonder how this feels for you when you hear it. It's like, it's probably something you've heard before, but he had the idea of having somebody potentially even come in and sort of manage, you know, the work because he's got all the books covered. But it just seems like for me, it'd be my best interest to just get it because, I mean, I know I'm kind of long winded right here. I mean, the other thing is, because he is kind of a family friend, there is a really good opportunity from. When I've heard you talking about, like the whole transitioning process, he said that, you know, he would be around and he could really help with that because he said that he's got these certain numbers on his books, but he's also been doing a lot of paver jobs for people and a lot of like building chicken coops and a lot of side projects that would still be there because he said that he was basically just generating revenue with just his client base. You know, they would all. Because it was a really nice neighborhoods.

Yeah.

You know, and so if I worked with him for a while, he could really help the transition, which seems like a good idea.

Yeah. Like, I would if I was you. I wouldn't do the managing thing. Like, if you either want to buy them or like, not.

That's my gut said too, because you're.

If you have your brand and then you're trying to run someone else's, just. It just doesn't work.

Yeah. I wouldn't want to run his trucks or anything. I mean, I. I am interested in some of his equipment. You know, he's got. He's got another cab over at Zuzu.

Yeah.

And he's got some mowers. And I need some more equipment. That's the one thing that I do need some more of it. I have. I'm not at the point where I'm buying new.

Right.

You know, like, you know, maintenance is something that I just am constantly trying to keep up with still.

Right. The thing though too is like getting all of that equipment Finance is really difficult. So either it just depends on what wants as far as like cash. But like, that's why I usually take out the equipment on the equation because it's. You can't finance it. And so I'm going to pay cash and I just want like, you know, someone's client base. And then usually I just tell them, hey, look, you're gonna get more anyways from Craigslist if you go sell this equipment to someone else. Because then you can if you're cash strapped. Because like most companies, most banks are not gonna finance this deal for you. So like, it depends on how much you want and how much cash you have in your own bank account. However, you know, if you're wanting to buy something, what you can do is not take the equipment, which is usually the biggest part of the valuation on these small little deals, and then pay them cash for their client base and then go out and finance the equipment.

0%, even if it's new or whatever, just to get you from a cash flow standpoint so you don't drain everything you got or go into debt on a high interest loan from the bank to finance their equipment.

So he mentioned like a certain amount down and then making payments.

Owner finance. So like, yeah, basically he's financing it for you. Just keep in mind that the reason most guys will offer that is because they know that a bank would never touch it.

Yeah. And they're trying to make a deal. But he wants to step out. Right. He's not done. He's not a dummy. Yeah. And, but he doesn't. But he also cares. He wants you. He asked me because I've sort of been around and I think he knows I've been doing similar work as him. He even has commercial stuff in Stanwood, right. Where I met, like apartments. And so I could sit down with him and like really work a route. I'm sure I could pick this, I could pick up his accounts within a couple weeks if I had just a small amount of equipment.

Right.

You know, especially moving into winter, if I started learning all.

Is his crew good enough? Like, are they, are they gonna stay with him, you think?

He said he's been doing it with three guys and I don't know, I assume they're decent. I know that his brother is probably phenomenal. He's athletic, he's Belgian. But then back where the business is based out of is where I have all of my buddies. And I mean I grew up in the corner. So I mean I literally have like 10 friends that are living There, that's kindergarten. Yeah, they would all just jump in and help me.

Yeah, yeah.

With labor. So, I mean, the location is key. Yeah, I have infrastructure there. I have family with shops and equipment. And yeah, location is what's serendipitous about it.

Yeah, it really comes down to the numbers of it all. Like, then how you want to think about it too, is like, okay, how much would it cost for me to do the same thing? And so, like, I usually look at like number of clients even and say, okay, you know, if you, if you, you probably haven't done quite enough to know your customer acquisition costs, but like, you know, marketing and things, if you do enough of it, you can figure out, okay, it costs X amount of dollars to get a client. Okay, well, this club, this, this company has X amount of customers. Can I, you know, how much would it take for me to go market, just get the customers myself and not have to take the cut of some of them leaving when you do make the transition, because there's gotta be eventually an email or a phone call or an in person visit where you tell them, hey, this is like changing.

Yeah.

And there's gonna be people that will drop. And so even if you can go with the guy for like a day or whatever and figure out like, how connected are these people to him? Because if they're really connected to him and it's been 20 years, like, it doesn't matter who you are, how good your service is, they're just gonna leave.

They just be like, no, yeah, no, I would definitely go with him and go with his crew. What I would. Now what I was thinking originally is I would jump on with his brother and just go work some of these clients with them all and meet them and get familiar and get an idea how it might go. I mean, you're completely right. Like.

I could also just start going up there, do a tiny bit of marketing and create clients organically and just hand pick the ones I want because my business right now is doing fine. And it's bigger risk for me to try to go and absorb his business with all the, with all the variables. Right. Unless I get a really good deal. And that's why you just buy contracts, because that's all you really want to spend time working on. You don't want to take someone's tools in and start working all our tools over.

Yeah, well, and to. You buy the clients and all of a sudden you realize like, hey, it worked good for his financial model, but for you, they're underpriced. And then all of a sudden you're raising prices in all of them. Like we just did a price increase for our bottom, like.

And almost every single one of those are from people, like from jobs. Clients. We bought like virtually. I think it was like 94% of them were from like, not us. And so in like we've only bought probably 30 to 40% of our, of.

Our.

Of our, our jobs anyways, our client base. So like, like the thing is too like say you had 20 grand cash, you gotta ask yourself, could you go mark on Facebook or enough flyers? Like with 20 grand cash you can do a ton of marketing, right? And could you go generate like in my opinion, 20 grand, for instance, this example, you can easily generate, you know, a revenue of small mowing customers. You can probably do like a quarter million increase in a year as far as like with 20 grand if you use it effectively.

Yeah, you could. I'm sure I haven't spent any money on marketing.

Right. So that's the thing too. Do you want to buy them or do you want them for yourself?

Because at the end of the day, if he doesn't find a buyer, those customers are going to go somewhere. And so if you made a strong enough brand, like they're going to come to you anyways. Obviously there's other people out there, but like I would. That's how I look at it too when it comes to valuation. Yes, there's valuations and you can look at all sorts of ratios and figure that out. But I almost look at it as like, okay, if I could spend the same amount of money on marketing over the course of a few months and slowly have these customers adopt my system instead of like instantly being completely changing the business and having new customers and trying to follow up with them, new employees, new equipment, like it's a big jump, right? And so really ask yourself, like if, okay, let's say he wants, let's just say he wants a hundred grand and in his valuation, 50 of that is for the equipment. So 50 for the clients, 50 for equipment. Just random number. And so you know, what you can say is, okay, $50,000 for the clients. Could you go out and spend 50 grand and get let's say 120 clients, there's a very good possibility you can do that. The customer acquisition on that is like 600 bucks. No, 400 bucks. And so you have to ask yourself the question, like, could you spend $400 to go get one customer tomorrow? Probably, right? So that's another way to look at it. He's not gonna look at it from that perspective at all. But it's something that I would use as leverage to when you come to the negotiation table. And so what I do is I use that as my negotiation to bring down the cost in their mind of what the customers are worth. And then I use the whole equipment equation to either get a really good discount on the equipment. Cause they know they're either gonna have to sell it piece by piece on Craigslist. Cause you cannot get financing for it. And so they know that. And so sometimes it just takes a few months for them to realize that once they can't find another buyer.

Exactly. And it's like, I hang with you there. I basically, I'm after the clients, you know, if we can do that. And I mean, there's not really any harm in making a deal for some equipment if there's something I want.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Just. Just keep in mind that if he's gonna own or finance it too, like, that is a good thing sometimes because it shows that they are committed to the company actually growing and being successful. Because if you just. If they're okay with like taking 20 or 30% down and then paying the rest off over the course of a year or two, like, that shows that they know the business is going to succeed. If they were like, no, I need it all up front, then sometimes that shows that they know something that you're not telling. They're not telling you as far as like pricing. Or they know that a big customer is going to leave. Or they.

Yeah, they got some inside information.

Yeah, like we. I've never done seller finance my purse personally. I. We've always just done upfront cash. But like, it is a good thing as far as. From what I've seen, the success ratio is better actually when you have a seller finance deal. But again, you gotta ask yourself the question, in a year, are you gonna want to be selling two grand a month out to someone that you kind of feel like you already own all the customers and like, all of that.

Yeah, exactly.

Because it feels really weird working for.

A client that paid you up front.

Yeah, yeah. Like it feels really weird to be paying someone a year into it when you really feel like you, You. The customers are yours, everything is yours. And you're still shelling out a bunch of money to the owner of the company, right?

Yeah, exactly. How does that work? Exactly? So I want to talk to him about. I just. You. So the biggest thing is I just need to just get that value as well as I Can I need to be play hardball on that?

Yeah. And to like. Honestly, I wouldn't. I would say the big thing is the customer acquisition cost. Like really it is like people always overvalue their company and the value of their customers. Especially like at the end of the day, it's a contact list. That's literally what you're paying for. You're paying for the contact list and then knowledge of what they've paid for in the past. Like, literally that's all you're getting.

And what if I transitioned them all in and went and met them, had to work with the crew for a while and then I presented them with my whole annual work scope of worksheet and an annual contract and we all signed. And then the, and then the contract for an annual came into my name. And it's like the contract people sign aren't really that legally binding. You know, it's like if we both agree, you know, if someone wants to cancel it without agreement, it's like a hundred bucks. And then.

Does he have contracts now?

He only has a few. Everybody with him has just been reoccurring. But it's like maybe, maybe because of this whole transition, I can, maybe I can try to work that in because I would want to get as many people as I could on that whole, you know, ach. Payment or credit card payments monthly, you know, just to make it easier.

Yeah.

Because I think like. But I'm not opposed to people that can't. That aren't doing that yet. Kind of small town area.

Like, based upon what I've seen, you'll lose about 30 to 40% of people if you just do that one change. As far as like just the contract thing and what the problem is, what I've seen some people do when they try to buy the company to switch it over is it's enough doubt in the person's mind when you bring it up. Even if you retract it and say, oh, but you don't have to do it, it's enough for them to go out and get other bids.

Yeah. It makes them think, all right, we're playing serious business here. So.

Yeah. Or even, or even like. Or even like, hey, I've had this other guy for 20 years, I've loved this guy. Now this new guy comes along and starts talking about contracts. And I'm gonna go at least go price shopping right now because it's a good time to change.

This is the time to change. It must be better to keep that kind of thing.

Yeah, we, whatever we bought. We've always honored their pricing for at least one year, even if it's under. Under priced. And I always encourage that because the last thing you want them to do is just go price shopping on you. Even like if you buy someone's contracts and you'll suck it for a year and then, you know, then raise the prices after you build value with them or put them on contracts or whatever.

Yeah, because then they start price shopping. That's when things just go wrong because you get people that are just hungry for work. Put crazy numbers out there.

Yeah, exactly.

But I mean, the only reason why I'm even considering this all because my business, with everything going on my personal life is not at this place to really be going for a lot of growth. You know, it's really. I'll finish this thought, but my next topic is more about really trying to know where I'm at and that's more important. That's why I really need to come to this convention and figure everything out. But I mean, the thing is, it's just with this business offer that came on the table, it's in my hometown, which I was basically already thinking about going. And so it just. So that part is just pretty wild. And then, I mean, the guy really is like a family friend. Like him and his daughter and his wife who he's separating with from a couple years, you know, since. And they come out the Easter at my mom's house. You know, it's like they really would. Like he would put in all that extra effort to not only. To not only help me make sure the business succeeds, I mean, he's probably going to want a decent amount and I'm going to have to do some negotiating. Yeah, but he really would put in that effort genuinely. He even said he would come out and work with me on certain things. I haven't done a lot of actual. I mean, I worked for Hardscape company for a while and I did a little bit of everything. But you know, to do a big paver job and bring out a, you know, something to cut pavers and line all that up, I mean, I can base it pretty well, but you know what I mean, it's like it'd be nice to have he would come in and help with projects like that. So I really am in a stage where as much as I'm really steering this ship forward, I really do try to stay like, just humble and like always be a student from anybody that has information because it's the biggest thing. It's just sharing Information.

It'S hard to do it on your own, you know?

Yeah, like. Like it really comes down to numbers, you know, you never know what they're gonna ask for. And at the end of the day, on the one we closed two years ago, I basically said, hey. I actually said, hey, look, this is what I can offer. I want you to go out and see if someone else will pay you more. I want you what's best for you. And especially if you know them like you want what's best for them and say, hey, like, this is all I can offer. You know, feel. I don't want you to be offended. Go feel free to go get other offers, find someone else, and then they can. And they're gonna quickly usually realize there's not anyone out there. Because you have the trust. You have the trust.

Yeah, because you have the trust factor built up with this guy. Whereas like anyone else that he'd be trying to sell it to doesn't. So the valuation is way lower simply for that fact. They're just not gonna pay more money. So what you can do is like, at the end of the day say, hey, this is what I can afford. Or like, this is what I can offer. I know it's not what you want, but like, if you can't unload it by X date, let me know and maybe this will work for you. But you want what's best for them.

And like, that's what it'll come down to is the conversation like, that I'm not gonna overextend my business and go out and try to get some financing and put a huge risk out. But if it can happen fairly organically and feel right.

Yeah.

The one we bought two years ago, I was mentioning, like that one, he originally wanted 180,000 for the whole business. We ended up getting just the contracts for 18 grand cash. So, like just he had to go out and realize that no one else is gonna pay him for his equipment, number one. And that was like 90% of. Not 90%. Like, like I think probably 90,000 of that was equipment. Well, his contracts still weren't 40 grand. Like, they're not worth that. So, you know, you just gotta give him some time and let him sit on it and realize that no one else is interested.

You guys also have like really good branding. You communicate with your clients really well and do your newsletters. So it's like when you guys buy a company and start communicating with clients, I'm sure right from the get go, they're probably like, okay, this is, you know, this is enjoyable.

Yeah. But there's always. There's always going to be these clients. Like, even if you're a better client, even if you're a better company, even if you're more professional, even if it just change, right? Like, at the moment of change, you're gonna lose at least 25% of people just because they go, like, okay, they're changing. I'm gonna go at least get a couple other bids or maybe this is a good time for my son to do it now, like, or whatever. Right.

But, yeah.

Okay, Well, I mean, and so the other thing for me now is.

Especially with my lifestyle changes and everything, I'm just trying to figure out my numbers. I want to. I've been listening to other podcasts on, like, budgeting and. Yeah, you know, I, I understand it. You know, I took some accounting and I, I just, I understand how to do it. I'm just trying to get better at doing it. I'm just not. I have a hard time at trying to decide if I want to use a journal and paper or if I want to use my smartphone, you know, or I feel like I need to hire somebody to just, like, pay all my bills and just get everything on, like, a spreadsheet for me. And I don't know who to really hire. You know, I just. I can't get it, Cannot keep it all in my head anymore. It's driving me crazy.

Yeah, like. Like really, the person that will eventually, that is, you're gonna be your office manager. But you said, yeah, you really have to kind of get to a certain level. You can afford that. Right?

So.

And I wouldn't even do that until you've nailed down things like customer acquisition costs. Marketing is a really important part of scaling, and that's where, like, usually at your size of a growth, like your size of company, I would really push someone to not buy it someone else yet. Because, like, you haven't figured out yet, like, the value of a customer, how to grow from, you know, 200,000 to 400,000 organically. And so you've kind of done by word of mouth and like, website stuff, like, all of that, you can, you know, really, like, if it's going to take you, you know, your 120, 150 this year, maybe, you know, to get to 3, 400, if you could just buy another company, like, you're thinking about, but then what's going to get you from, you know, 4 or 500 grand to a million? Right? Like, you can't. You can't just Keep buying companies at the end of the day, right?

And I think because of some, some of the, like, the breaks that I've had already, there's definitely some of those steps. I think I should really just realize I still need to learn, you know, because I'm doing these commercial contracts and there's a lot more like chemical and timing and print. It's just a lot more to, to master, you know. And I mean, yeah, it's hard to know. It's hard to not just want to keep growing, keep trying to push it. But I definitely hear what you're saying there.

Like, I think, I think it'd be really good. I think it'd be really good even if you did make them an offer and say, hey, next spring we'll do something if you can't sell it and you give him a low ball offer. But then over the winter, you should really start working on the marketing side of things. And you might come spring be like, hey, I really don't need these. And then you will not go up on your price because you'll be like, I could spend that same amount of money and do this myself, you know. And over the winter you really study marketing. And we'll be putting together that marketing plan in January. And so I'm sure I could just.

Do a killer marketing.

Well, because then you think about it really depends on what he wants for the company. But you look at how much cash you got to put into a big deal like that, like, I can take 10 grand right now, I know for a fact I can take ten grand for our company and turn that into about a quarter million dollars as far as new business. And so. And so like once you kind of figure out just, you know, some of the elements, whether it be what works in your market as far as print, or is it Facebook or is it Google AdWords doing a mix of them, like 10 grand. Literally every single person in Comano island and around the area will know who you are.

Yeah, exactly. That's true. I mean.

It'S really. It is true. And it is about route density.

Yeah.

Before you can. Because you can make a lot of money in one area before you try to divide two.

Yeah, totally.

I mean, the only thing driving me there is like, basically, you know, that's what my mom and my dad are my family. And like I'm raising a little girl. She's 18 months old. And I was just home, you know, for my birthday and I have like freaking. There's like six friends that all have these little kids, you Know, they're all the same age. And my mom's got this, we got this family property from acreage. Right. Right on Highway 20. When you're heading from, like I headed to anacortes.

Yep.

From i5. Right when you go over the bridge from the casino.

Oh, yeah.

And then, and then you take a left right there. There's this little junction where the water pitches together. You got some property in the water and it has great access on, on one end, I could just run the most killer landscape business right out of there. Yeah. And then on the other end, literally the tide comes up to the front door of the cabins, you know, and so I would love to be there. And so I've been thinking about, hey, I could pretty much. Because right now, I mean, literally I'm operating my business. I have a 30 foot RV.

I got a spot and like, I have all my equipment and stuff covered. And I basically, you know, I'm roughing it because of my, of my breakup.

Right.

Like, things were not good, so I had to leave, you know, because, you know, I'm trying to run this business and be a father and that's about. I don't have time for anything that's not like functional and productive. You know what I mean?

But I think, I think you have the right concept. Like, even from like the personal side, like, if I was you, I wouldn't make any big business decisions. Even in the next little while. Like even buying the company and things. Sometimes it's just like, you know, it's kind of like a way out and like trying to make yourself busy kind of thing.

And then more than anything, I could tell him, like, hey, if you want to scale back, I'll take some of your clients.

Yeah, yeah. You know, exactly. Which is, which is, which is a real deal. Right. Like, if he really has built relationship with his customers and he can't sell it, which is very, very possible.

Like, he just says, hey, here's my client list. You know, do what you can.

Yeah, yeah, give it time. You're saying, kind of saying time is gonna be the best thing for somebody in his situation.

Yeah. Cause I honestly, if you start a.

New business venture and it starts to get serious, he's just gonna run out of time for the landscape business.

Yeah. Like, if it's anything over 40 grand for his client list, I would definitely, definitely, definitely put the brakes on and wait and just like say, hey, look man, I can only afford 20, like whatever that number is. Cause you're gonna pay that with cash. You're Gonna have to. Or he might. Usually they're not gonna do owner financing on just their client list. But let's say he wants 40 grand for the client list and then another 50 for the equipment. Say, hey, I really can't. I really can only afford about 20 for the client list. Let's touch base back in February. If you found someone else, great. If not, maybe we can do something together. And then you might come to the thing in January, we figure out a marketing plan and. And you're like, hey, 20 grand will get me a whole lot more than his list of customers.

It's true. Right? That's what it really comes down to is a list of customers.

Yeah. Like literally with Facebook and Commander island, little small places. Like even where I'm at 20 grand, every single person in your town will know who you are.

Yeah. And in that town, I can move in there and have word of mouth spread.

Well, you're paying for like with social media or whatever, you're buying into the power of that 20 grand and everyone knowing who you are is not just a one time buy of a company. It's the next year of people calling you.

Of course.

Right. And not just a one time shot in the arm of a bunch of clients. Right. And then so that just, you know something about.

No, I mean that's where I met. So basically.

I have at least three guys or two guys I want to bring for sure. I've been talking to a local landscaper here that I met. I'm trying to get him to come, but I wanted to give him a little more information. I wasn't really sure. You should just point to the website. I mean the website just kind of had like a sign up. It didn't really have a lot of information about the conference.

It's kind of on purpose. I don't want too many people there. I want to be able to kind of personalize it for everybody. Like I'm not making any money on it. So it's not about getting as many people there. It's more about the people that do come. I want them like a solid plan.

When they do want them to come is kind of what you're saying.

Yeah, the business owners especially like your employees are great. Like, especially, especially if they're interested in the numbers. But like if they're not interested in the numbers or marketing, they're going to kind of bored. They're going to get bored.

Okay. Okay, well, maybe I'll reconsider. May I bring one of my guys? Just like I'm trying to get. I got. These two guys are doing great.

Yeah.

But they're just both like, one of them is really young and one of them is just like, lacks a little motivation, but he's, he likes it. But I also know if they're ready for numbers. So.

Yeah, it's numbers and like a lot of marketing stuff, but. And a lot of planning too. Right. Like, I want people to leave with a solid five year plan and a solid marketing plan for 2019. And yeah, so like it's, it'll be in depth and like you'll love every minute because like, you know the numbers, you know the history, all that stuff, but you know, you don't want to bore them to death too much. But that's kind of why.

Unless I can get them really excited beforehand or something.

Yep, yep. Yeah, because like, that's kind of why I didn't put too much info on the thing. I want it to be like, you know, no more than 50 people so I can go to each one and really work with them on it.

So interesting enough.