College Dropout to Landscape Entrepreneur - Ep.34

Hey everyone, this is Mike Andes and you're listening to landscape businesscourse.com podcast episode 3434 today. And first of all, thank you for everyone's emails. I probably got about 10 to 15 emails asking for information about the franchise. If you don't know what I'm talking about, listen the last episode on franchising. I've decided to franchise, create a franchise out of the Augusta Lawn Care Services. That's August with an a. Athe n augustalongcare services.com essentially we are franchising the business starting in 2018. So a lot of you were asking like for numbers as far as like cost to initial franchise, what the royalty is going to be like if we are, if we're going to expect net worth requirements, stuff like that. Like all that hasn't been cemented yet. Still going like working on the legal aspect and like I said, we're not taking anyone till you know, really like 10 more months. Till now however, we are getting all that in place and so we have the numbers. And so if you go to augustalongcareservices.com franchise you will see all of that information, information and again that's Augusta, that's August with an A at the end. AugustaLCareservices.com franchise you'll see like what it'll cost for initial franchise fee and then like royalties what that includes you also you can convert to a franchise. Like if you already have a landscaping business, it's like half the price for your initial franchise fee just because it won't take us teaching you as much if you've already got business and clients and all of that stuff. So that's that. Go to augustalongcareservice.com.

Franchise and you're gonna get all that information. But we still haven't heard any from anyone in Washington, Oregon or Idaho, which is where we are going to actually accept the franchisees. So if you are in Washington, Oregon or Idaho, you have, you have a landscaping business or you're wanting to start a landscaping business and you are interested in franchising our concept and our business model and really having me as your right hand man especially for our first five or ten franchisees I'm like going to be your go to person and on, you know, on grounds and stuff. So if that's something of interest to you, definitely check it out. AugustAlongCareServices.com Franchise now today we are talking to Joseph from New Jersey And Joseph is 20 years old, in his third year of business. In his second year of college and he has 35 lawns that he services right now. And he's wanting to drop out of school and go full time and really make this business big. And so we're going to be talking with him today about how to go about stopping college, talking to his parents, because they want him to go to college and going really full time in this entrepreneurial pursuit of lawn care and landscaping. How he should be doing that, what kind of numbers he should be hitting, hitting in his first couple years here, and his marketing tactics that he'll be going through. I think if you guys have been listening to all 34 of the last podcast episodes, you start to see a lot of recurring themes and kind of what my business ethos and methodology is for our industry. So nothing really new or exciting that you're gonna always hear. I think you're gonna hear a lot of the same themes and the same kind of jargon, the same methodology, and it's because it works. And so that's really why I decided to systematize, create a system and create a franchise in Augusta Lawn Care Services to really be able to scale this out and really give people a blueprint using our logo, using our branding, and kind of tap into our systems. So obviously landscapebusinesscourse.com is the course and all that, but I really feel that franchising is kind of the next frontier for our business. And so also for all of the course members, sorry, we kind of have a lot of things I'm going through here. All the course members on landscape business Course get ready for June. June is when we're gonna start our monthly webinars, just course members. We're probably gonna do it in groups of 10 or 15, where I will hop on for 30 to 40 minutes with the course members, answer questions. You guys can field questions to each other, see how everyone's doing. And what's cool about that is because the hundred of you or so that are on the course now, because you're on there and you're all using the same business model, it's pretty interesting because you'll be able to help each other out so much and so looking forward to that. And so can't wait for it, really. June, June, just a few more months away, we're gonna start those monthly webinars, so get ready for that if you're in the course. So without any further delay, let's get Joseph, 20 years old from New Jersey, three years in business and wanted to drop out of college to go full time. Here we go. So you're probably not gonna be mowing for another month then.

Yep, just about another month. Like third week of April or so normally.

Cool. Very cool.

Pretty excited, though.

Oh, yeah, man. Yeah, we just started like two weeks ago, but we usually have started, like a month ago, so it's pretty exciting.

I saw your video on YouTube. You guys starting up?

Oh, man. Like, and honestly, like, we probably could have waited another week. Cause most of the customers weren't growing. But, like, we just emailed. Everyone's like, hey, we're starting. If you don't want us to, like, just let us know. And that's perfectly okay because I was like, so that's awesome. Oh, man. Tell me a little about yourself, like, what you're doing, and then kind of what I can help you with.

Yeah, you got it, man. So I started the business probably three. Three years ago with two of my friends. And we started handed out flyers one day just to make some extra money, you know, in high school. And.

We. We didn't really get any calls. We got a couple. A couple small jobs. We didn't get any, like, maintenance calls or anything like that. But eventually the one kid dropped away and then he kind of fell off of the. Of the team. So it was just two of us left. And then in the next year, we got up to like five or six lawns a week. Nothing major. But then the other kid I was working with, he kind of. Kind of dropped off too, so it was just me. So we had. I had about six loans or so last year. And then this year I got the. I got insurance and I got limited liability, you know, corporation, got the llc, and I started advertising a little bit. And I'm right at about 35 lawns ending. Ending last year.

Whoa, whoa. So wait a second. So you went from six lawns a week to 35? Yeah, just in the past few weeks. Like, advertising or from last year.

From last year.

Gotcha. Okay, cool. Good, good, good. All right. Sorry to interrupt. Go ahead.

No, you're good. But, yeah, so I had about 35, and I hired a couple kids. You know, like, I hired one kid to work with me part time, and then that didn't work out. And then another kid, and then that didn't work out, and then another kid, and that didn't work out. But I mean, it was partly my fault. The reason those. Those kind of broke off. But I'm getting better at the whole management thing. See, my problem was that I was micromanaging a little too much, and it gets annoying. You know, they don't like dealing with that, Dealing with someone constantly over their shoulder.

Right.

So I got to kind of learn to back off, let them do their thing. You know, they know what they're doing. I've trained them well. But that was kind of my problem last year.

Mm.

Going into this year, I have somebody who's, who's looking to work full time. He has experience, a couple years of experience. He's a year younger than me. I'm 20C19.

Okay.

And things should be starting off pretty soon and I'm very excited.

Okay, cool. So. So what's kind of like the, the thing that you think you're kind of looking to get going this year? Like what can I help you with?

Okay. This year. Okay. So I actually had a question for you about college.

Yep.

So I'm currently going to community college and it's like 15 minutes away from my house.

Yeah.

But I don't really think it contributes much to like my actual business knowledge.

Mm.

Are you guys weird that you're like learning from professors who haven't been there and done it? You know what I mean?

Yeah. Why? Why? So why are you going to college then? What, what's the point? The parents, right, they want you to be doing that.

They want me to be in college. They don't really want me to keep doing this landscaping thing. They think I'm gonna be working and killing myself for the rest of my life. You know, working out in the field.

So what do they want you to do? Go to school. I mean, go to school, get a business degree and then get like a corporate job. Is that kind of what they want?

Yeah, something like that. Something boring.

So are you in your second or third year of college?

Second year.

Cool. Alright. So you still have three years. Alright. So this is more interesting to me really, because I've never talked with someone on the podcast about this on landscape business course. But like, so this is the thing, like if I were you, I would ask them for one year and they could have really kind of punt that year. Like where you go all in and you go from 35 to 100 accounts and you go to where you have, you know, two employees and you're bringing home a six figure paycheck. And if they, if you, if they give you that year, it'll really incentivize you to like put everything on the table for that whole year.

And if they, if they're gonna say no, you know, right now, you still living at home.

Yeah.

So yeah. Like, like you kind of gotta do what they Want in one regardless.

Exactly.

And, and so. So, like, but this is the other side of the coin. Like, I've done business school stuff. It didn't. Did not contribute one ounce, and I paid through the nose for it. And literally I finished 90% of my MBA and I'm not finishing the last 10% because literally the two or three classes I have left will be a waste of time. And so, like, this is the thing. This is the thing. Like, I have nothing against, like, people who go to college and get their degree.

And I agree 100%.

It's just that, like, if you're not gonna be a corporate, if you don't want to go corporate, like, be in a corporate environment, it really doesn't help you a whole lot.

That's just my 2 cents from the entrepreneurial world.

Right? And so, and the problem, this is the problem, and that is in the entrepreneurial world now, it's cool to say that. It's like the cool thing to be like, yeah, I dropped out of college. Dah, dah, dah, dah. I think too many people actually that do drop out of college should stay in college because they're not entrepreneurs and they're not. They're not willing to work 12, 14 hours a day, seven days a week, and they're not willing to do. Now, if you, if you know that you're able to do that and you know that that's like, the, like, the last thing you want to do in the world is do a court. Be a corporate. In a corporate environment, then you got to have a really awkward conversation with your parents about, you know, can you take one year? Lay out your financials to them. Now say, hey, if I get to this spot, which, you know, in the next 30 minutes, we can determine what that's gonna be. But, like, okay.

If you just go, give them two options. Say, hey, like, I don't really feel like I'm gonna ever want to work for a corporation. I feel like I'm gonna waste the next two or three years of my time. I'm gonna either a waste your money or your scholarship money or what. However, I don't know if they're paying for a you are or whoever, or you're going to debt, whatever. If you're going to debt. Like, this is a really important conversation for you, not just them, but like, however you want to phrase that and say, hey, like, I don't want to waste my time. Can I have one year, like a solid 12 months? Or, like, can I have until September 2018? To go all in on this landscaping thing, and then if it doesn't hit this certain mark and if I can't come back to you at that time and lay these financials out to you and prove to you with my bank statements that I have money and I can make way more doing this than I would ever make doing something. Like, this is the thing for me when I stopped going to my MBA classes is when I looked at the. It gives the median wage of all the graduates for the course. And it was like. It was like 60 grand. And so when you're making, like, when you expect to make four and five times that the next year, like, there's. You look at that. And, like, why would I even finish this program?

And so I couldn't even agree with you more.

Right. And the only problem is right now is you're just not at the four or five times level. Right. So that's why your parents are gonna question it. Like, for me, my parents weren't even involved because I was paying for the school myself, and they knew that, like, I'm gonna be fine if I don't get it. But if your parents are pushing that because they want the stable job and everything, you've got to prove that you can create the stable job without your college education.

Okay, so you were saying how if I basically bring up if I can get to this point in a year, right?

Then, like, what was your. What was your best month last year as far as revenue?

Probably.

It was right around 6,7000. My gross for the year was. Was 30.

Dude, man, you're right. Have you listened to, like, my podcast and everything? Yes, I have looked at my podcast, so you know my number.

You were saying you were literally right at that point, too. And I was like, wow, that's crazy.

Yeah. Like, so this is the thing, is if you try to do this kind of, like, halfway, and that is go to school and do the business, the problem is you're probably gonna get to about $60,000 this coming year, which sounds great. And, like, I still. If you would have told me that when I was in your shoes several years ago, I would have been like, great. But I think if you went full out, like, all in and had, like, some risk, and that is that you had to go to school. If he doesn't work out, I literally think you can get to 150 plus easily.

And so the reason is because you're gonna go full time, you're gonna really invest everything that you have into it. Like, you're gonna go Hire someone. You're gonna spend some time trying to find someone that's good and, and not just randomly taking these kids on, just. And seeing if they work. And you're gonna make it more of a business, whether it be a website, really making it into a company.

And this is the thing. When it comes. This is the thing. You're 20 and I'm 21, so I know exactly where you're at. But.

When you're younger, you do have the parents that you want to make happy, and that's more important to keep a relationship with them. However.

You don't want to be 24, come out of college and be at this exact same spot because you don't want to go get a corporate job.

Yeah. And in debt.

Right. So you're taking debt. So now this is the thing. Now this decision is really in your ballpark more than is theirs, because you're paying for it, right? Like, if they want to pay for it, that might be a different story. But, like, you're the one taking on all the risk. Like, and people talk about risk and starting a startup or starting their business. What about the risk of getting a college education, going 50 grand in a debt, coming out of school, and not getting a job that pays very well, or worse yet, that you hate? Like, there. Exactly.

That's what I don't want.

Right.

Don't want a job that I hate.

Yeah. And so. So I don't know you well enough to say if that's, you know, that's you, you know, yourself and what you. You. Your past experiences with employers and employees. Like, for me, I just know I'm the worst employee in the world because I'm either A, gonna wanna run the show, or B, I'm gonna get bored really fast. And so I figured out.

I hear you, man.

And so, like, I figured out that I was going the medical route, and I still am really big into health and fitness and all that stuff, but I figured out that, like, I'm not gonna be able to stick in one profession, like, or one specialty of a profession, like cardiothoracic or brain surgery. I wouldn't be able to stick in that for 40 years of my life.

It might be cool for two or three, but then I'm gonna want to do something else. And I can't do residencies for five years for all these specialties. So I just figured, you know what, like entrepreneurship, the cool thing about it is you can run a business for 10 years, sell it, get into something else, you know, and continually progress. Right? And so I think at our age, you know, young 20 year olds, that the landscaping business might not be what you're passionate about, but you're gonna get so much experience, you can exit and have some money and then go after something you're more passionate about with a whole bunch of experience and things that are really valuable to other companies, even if you go corporate. And so I think the big thing for you right now is you either got to figure out a, are you going to go into debt and go the safe route, keep the family happy and hate yourself in four years or are you going. Which by the way, you could try to run it, run the business while you're in school. It's going to be really hard when you have full time employees. And if you want to get full time employees that are really good, they aren't going to be able to handle a part time owner. It just, it just, I don't see it happening. I'm sure one person's done it in their life, but like, it's really, really not going to work. If you want to scale super fast, you've got to be able to, you know, put out the fires when they happen. You've got to show your employees that you care more about the business than your school. Like, and I'd be really open with your employees too. The first few about like what you want the business, what, what you want it to become and then also just the risk that you have involved. Like tell them, hey, by this time we've got to get to this point or you guys are going to be out of a job because I'm going to have to go back to school and so get them on your team in that regard. Like for us, you know, I'm not in that standpoint, but my guys know that, okay, we are, you know, trying to grow the business and we, you know, we have certain amount of locations that we want things, all this and if we hit those targets this year, that we're going to be able to get there. And then they see that in their paycheck, they see that in their responsibilities. So like when you're trying to grow an organization, if the owner, when you're in a small like 10 people and under, if the, if the owner isn't part time, is part time in the business, it really shows in the employees because they, they see that the owners are 100% committed. So yeah, that's one route though. You could, you know, that's another conversation. If in a few months that's the way you Go is how to run the business part time, like that. But you, if you're paying the bill and they're not willing to pay it, like it's the decision cuts more in your ballpark. Really.

It does, yeah. And when you say like to tell the employees like where we. We got to get to a certain point, do you tell them numbers or do you say like, we got to be at 100 lawns or something like that?

Like, it's really up to you. Like, I like transparency. I've had it bite me before with employees. So like I keep it a balance between the two. So like we like as far as we say lawns. But then they also know that most of our money comes like, I don't give them numbers as far as like monthly dollar amounts. But yeah, I'm transparent with like, okay, we need 200 lawns this year because that's gonna like pay everyone's salary and then we'll be able to go after landscaping jobs which will be all 100% profit. Like so like they know those sort of things. They know where the money's at. They know that we don't make a whole lot in lawn care unless they're super efficient, which makes them efficient. And like, they know like, so, so they know where the money's at. They know where we don't make money. They know which jobs we're losing on or that we make really good on. But they don't. They, to be perfectly honest, they don't know like, what our targets are for this year as far as numbers and things like that. But they would probably have a pretty good idea, to be honest with you. They can kind of look at how much, how much we're doing and they see the work orders and they'd have a pretty good idea. Every business owner is a little bit different because I have one of my employees is related to me and a couple of them know my family really well. I kind of keep a little bit less like numbers wise. But like, if I had 100% strangers as far as like family and close friends in my, I'd probably just tell all my numbers because I don't really don't care. And honestly, this is the thing. They could all get the information if they listen the podcast, which one of them does. But like, they can get all the numbers right from, from, you know, out here. I tell everyone out here on, on the podcast.

Yeah, so I gotcha.

So like, like, what are you doing now? Because like, okay, so let's assume that you have this conversation with your parents and you're like, give me a year or give me till September 2018, when, you know, college starts. And so like, are you finishing? Did you just finish your quarter? Right, Your semester?

No, not yet. We finish May 10th.

April.

May. So it's pretty late because. Yeah, the mowing season already starts by then.

Do you want to quit, like right now.

Or do you want to finish?

I mean, I would like to, but I, I don't know if I could do that just because I feel like I've already put so much work into this semester. But then again, it's like, if I do continue, like, what. What's going to come out of it?

Right?

It's not like I'm going to use the, the grades at all.

So.

Yeah, that's. That's a tough one. Like, yeah, like, I had to because I was mid quarter when I decided to stop my mba. So I essentially left twenty five hundred dollars, gave it to the after because I was a week late on their. What's it called? Their refund. Yeah, the refund deadline. Yeah, exactly. So I essentially, I went for like, literally two classes, both of which I was really late to. So literally, for three hours worth of teaching, I paid 2500 bucks. And. Yeah, that hurts. That hurts a lot.

Yeah.

But like, this is the thing. If you really don't think you're ever gonna go back to school, this year is pivotal because the difference between you staying in school for the next two months and you not is probably the difference between you getting 110, 120 grand this year and 200, you know, and that's gonna be the difference maker between you bringing money home and you breaking even. And that's gonna be the difference maker between when in a year you have to talk to your parents again and decide if you're going back to school or not. Okay, I'm not pushing you. I'm not telling you that you should drop out tomorrow.

No, no, but I know what you're saying.

I'm just saying, like, you have to, like, it's a hard jump to take, you know, dropping a school. But then it's like, okay, if you're gonna drop a school in a few months, why not do it now? There's no point in doing another semester. Exactly.

You're just gaining time that you could be working on your business.

Right. But. But just the idea or just, you know, knowing that you're thinking about you'll covering your downside. You. You want to. You got to be 100% that you aren't going to go back. Because if you even have an inkling of it, you should finish this quarter. And even if, and if you have that inkling, maybe you shouldn't drop out of college. Like, it should be a really a clear decision as far as either A, you're doing this or B, you're not. There really should be no like, if. Or, and, or. But. Because what's going to happen, this is going to happen regardless. And that is if you're not 100% committed and you're like, like if you're not 100% in, what's going to happen is come, like, June, July, when it gets a little bit tough, like, you're working really long hours, and all of a sudden it just seems like you're paying your people and you're getting new equipment, but you're not bringing any money home. And it just seems like things start falling apart. Well, no, it's not when things aren't falling apart. It's when you, you mentally will start falling apart and emotionally will fall apart if you're not 100% committed to the business. Right? Like, if you, if you are, okay, like, if you have this back door of going back to school in mind, it'll be really tempting come June, July, it'll be really tempting in September when you're like, man, the new school next semester starting, and here you are grinding 14 hours a day, and it doesn't seem like a whole lot's coming back to you. Even though you're, you know, you're growing the business with that first year is all about growing the business. And the year after, that's when I could say, you could take a big paycheck home.

But that's what, that's when you sit down with your parents, say, hey, this is what we did last year. This coming year, we're gonna do this and have some sort of a track record for them to bounce that, you know, base that decision off of.

Okay?

Like, this is the thing. To your parents, to your parents, you need to be saying, give me a year. In your mind, it's gotta be, this is 100% the rest of my life. And if it's not, then you should stay in school.

No. And I am at that point where I'm just like, this is. This is it. This is what I want to do. Like, personally, I don't love the landscape field, but I just love running a business. Like, there's no doubt in my mind, like, that is what I'm going to do. I'm Never. Never going to get a job, like, period.

Yeah, totally, I will.

I want a business. And then, I mean, when I'm done with this, I. I eventually plan on selling this and then going into something else. I don't know what that's going to be yet, but that's. That's definitely my plan.

Okay. Yeah. So. So let's buckle down and look at. Okay. Let's assume that tomorrow you stop school.

What are you doing this year to like, get business growing? Like, what are you gonna be doing?

So I already started running some Facebook ads.

Okay.

Because that's where I get most of my business is Facebook through most of it actually. Through, like the Facebook moms pages in my area.

Yep.

Like, I got in with one. One mom and then she. She started talking great about me on there and then another mom. And then I was just like a group of them just rattling my name off all the time. So I'm constantly getting business from them.

Okay.

And I created flyers this year off of Vistaprint. I got like 1500 of them. And we were actually having like 50, 60 degree weather last week before the snowstorm, so I was handing them out.

Yeah.

And then we got snowstorm. So I'm holding off until things start warming up a bit. And then I'm gonna hand out as many as I can. I'm just gonna keep going with those.

So right now, kind of like you're doing the flyers and then you have a little bit of Facebook ads going.

Yeah. And I kind of want to get into direct mail. A lot of people say don't. Don't waste your time with that. I know like 1% returns are considered good and 2% are considered great.

Yeah.

But I just. I just feel like the return on investment could be like, so worth it. Even with that 1 to 2%.

Right. Callback.

Yeah, totally. Same thing.

I feel like there's such a potential.

Right in that same thing with.

Not that many people use it nowadays.

Yep. Yeah. This is the thing. Whenever. When anyone says anything is dead, I really question it. The only thing I think is dead is the yellow Pages. But they're literally some. There are probably one or two markets where it still works. And the reason, the whole point behind that is just saying that you've got to kind of taste everything and then see what works in your market. Like for some people, like Facebook ads, even though I rave about them, see, sometimes it does. It isn't the best place. Like your market isn't the best for it because you got other companies that are competing with You. So your cost per click is really high or whatever. For some places, like, literally they're paying pennies for clicks, and literally they're tripling their business spending 10 bucks a day on Facebook ads. So, like, that's crazy. And then you got other places where it doesn't do anything. Then you got places where flyers, they get 4% callback, 1% of people get customers, and they just do that every day. And that's how they grow there. It's like every single market's like. I know. In my market. Right, Exactly. And so, like, I know my market. Most of the people I'm going after in gated communities and they're. We're not allowed to put flyers on their door. So we've tried direct mail. We know what those percentages are. And as long as Facebook beats out direct mail, we're gonna continue use Facebook. We try. We did cold calling some two years ago, so that's kind of like how we went from a 30 to 200 or. Sorry, take the back. That we went from 200 to 550. And so, like, even now, like, I don't know what your budget is for as far as the advertising, but if you quit school tomorrow, you have a month where you have a lot of time on your hands. And literally you could cold call, you could knock on doors. Like, if you're really hungry. There's so much you can do in that month that if you just kind of like, gotta get past the awkwardness of knocking on doors and cold calling, all that. But you have so much time. Yeah, because you have so much time if you. If you have a month before you start mowing. Right?

Yeah. Last year I went out and I went knocking on doors and I got to know a bunch of people. And it. It really helps, like, just getting to know. Even if they're not, like, taking your services, it just helps to know a little bit about them and what they don't like about their current lawn companies. And, you know, all this information, it just. It all comes into play when you're. When you're trying to market to these people.

Yeah. Yeah. And like, there's so many crazy ways to market. And like, there's something that I don't even say in the podcast and stuff, but, like, it really depends on, like, how every single market is so different. And that's why, like, you know, we're franchising my company. Right. Did you hear that?

I saw the podcast, but I didn't have the time.

Yeah. So, like, to listen to it. Oh no, that's all good. That's all good. Yeah, that's the newest one. Essentially we decided instead of growing our business location by location, we're actually gonna franchise it. So we're looking for franchisees in just like Washington, Oregon and Idaho. So, but, but like, like that's one way to grow. And so like, essentially I was kind of in your shoes where I was like, okay, I'm build this for five years. And then I was thinking like 20, 20, you know, five, 10 years, 20, 20, I'd sell it. And so now I'm kind of like, okay, well I could do that or you know, take, let's scale this thing out. And so that's what we're doing now. But like, I think, I think right now, like you have the time on your hands like this next month. The only reason I said that is really there's so many ways to market. And so I think if you, because you have the time on your hands, you can get creative as far as how to use that. But like, I think you should be targeting 70 lawns within the first few months. Like target that hard. If you get to 60, you're still going to be good. You're gonna want to get the sixth year set. Like so, like that was my marker after that second year was with 70 lawns. And I had after that first year. During that second year, I got my first full time employee. And that's a big step because that the next year, like next spring, that's when you start like three, four people. Like it'll, it's a snowball effect. Right. So like as soon as you go full time, that's a big jump. When you get a full time employee, that's a big jump. When you go full time sales, that's when you start hitting like real home runs. And so until you get to that spot, you kind of are investing a lot of the money back in the business. You're investing back to marketing another truck for more crew members, whatever. But when you go full time sales and you got four or five people out in the field, you got an office manager, that's when the money starts coming. And that's literally only a year and a half away from where you're at right now. And if you're willing to put in the work.

Yeah, okay. I also have one question about that.

Yep.

Well, it's sort of on the same page. So right now my budget, I have $2,000 right now.

Yep.

I know you talk a lot about like websites and SEO. I don't have a website currently, but would you recommend getting one before like the upcoming season? Like, I really, I'm not very tech savvy, so I don't know how much websites cost or anything really about them. Okay, I'm just looking for some insight on that.

Yep. Don't spend 2,000 or whatever on, on a website, I'll tell you that. But, but you have to have a website and you're not gonna see the return on it this year because you're kind of late in the game as far as website. Like it's gonna take like next year is when you start seeing returns. Like, one of these days I'm going to make a blog post and put on our, our Google Analytics from our web, from our website and just show that like my first year, even though that's when I put all the work into making the website, creating a blog for keywords, like making all the links, like all that that first year. But hardly any of our business really came from that. It was all direct marketing, like us reaching out to them. Whereas, like right, right now, like 60 to 70% of our new business is people Googling us. You can see it right on your analytics, where they're coming from. If they're searching you, if they're searching lawn care, like, how are we being found? Because now we're the number one in our. If anyone in our target market puts in lawn care, we're going to come up as number one. They put in landscaping, we're going to be number one. And so like, that's huge. But that's been three years, three and a half years of growing the website. But you've got to start it, right? Like, you just have to start. I would suggest weebly.com. that's when we built ours on. It's super simple. If you can do, you know, Microsoft Word, you can do that one. And don't you don't go. Don't get super wrapped up in the SEO if it's not your strong point. Like, I've done some stuff on the podcast kind of. So kind of look around and see some of the stuff I've mentioned as far as how to use it. And you know, things like linking up your Facebook page, making sure you have a Google page, making sure you have zip codes in your header footer, like all those little things as far as SEO. And then you can work more on the design part, like making sure it looks nice, making sure you have a logo. Like if you don't have a logo, 99 designs, which is okay, but then even cheaper. Freelancer.com for like 20 bucks, you get a really good logo. And so like that is really important because if you put out a mailer and it just has your phone number, the only chance you have of getting a customer is if they call you. Whereas if they have a mailer and has their, your phone number, but then also has an e, sorry, website address, there's a chance they go to that are impressed and then call you in two months. And so there's that. And it's also their way of vetting you. So when they see a mailer on their front porch or on their door or whatever, first thing they're thinking is like slimy salesman. But if you have, if they, if your web address points them to your web, your website and they get there, there's before and after pictures, there's video, it looks really professional, it's compatible for mobile, it doesn't look tacky, it looks like fresh and new. And you put new content on, like all of that stuff. Now all of a sudden you have a customer. And so I would highly, highly suggest, like you have the time, like spend, spend four or five hours watching Weebly videos on how to create good sites with Weebly, you know, then create the website. Like, obviously I don't have the time to dig into SEO stuff, but like learn as much as you can about Weebly if that's what you're gonna use. It's like you're gonna buy your domain for like whatever it is, 20 bucks a year, and then you're gonna pay $10 a month for the hosting and it's gonna look really good and you don't need to spend a thousand dollars. Spend a couple days working on the design, make a couple blog posts just for keywords and like all those things are important, but you've got to have your website. Definitely. Yes.

Okay.

Like that's the first thing I would do. Like, if you quit school tomorrow, tomorrow should be spent making the website, getting your URL so you can put it on your business card, you can attach it to the flyers, you can put it on a truck. Like all of that's really important.

Okay.

And that's long game. That's long game, right? Like that's not short term gains. You're not gonna be on the first page of Google the first day. Like in the course we have like all sorts of stuff about SEO to kind of get you by second year on the first page and you know, within the first few, like click clickable links and so the Google page is huge though, because that above organic search on Google is Google Pages. So make your Google Page great. Even though it's the worst social media site in the world and no one uses it and it's pathetic. But Google likes their own products and they will put you first if you can get good reviews on there and things like that.

Yeah, I remember you saying that.

Yeah.

That you get ranked higher organically if you have all that. Because Google likes when you, when you use their stuff.

That's true. Well, is there any. Anything else? Those of. It's kind of like, cuz like I don't know if it's tomorrow or tonight. Well, last night, tomorrow. Like when you have the conversation with your parents, like, what's the number you're going to want to be at? Let's say they give you till September 2018. Like, what's the number that you're going to present to them? Like, what's the metrics?

That's one thing I wanted to ask you. Like, I'm not sure what, what's considered like a realistic number because I know you said your second year you had.

Did you have. Right around 200,000, a little bit above second year.

Yep.

Like that. I would before, like listening to your podcast and stuff, I would have thought that was like way out of the question. Like.

Yep.

Totally unrealistic.

Yeah.

I was thinking like even a hundred thousand to get to that would be very tough.

Right. Yeah. Okay, so. So let's say, let's say this so because. Okay, I'm just. Sorry, I'm writing this down. So you're at 30 last year. Let's say you go to 100 this year.

Which, it doesn't mean that you're gonna have to go. You're. It doesn't mean you're gonna have to triple how many lawns you do. It means that you're gonna start getting landscaping jobs. You're gonna start upselling the 35 lawns that you do have. Like, so even though like our, our client base for my first year was like 30. Right. Right now we're doing, we're gonna do. We, we're gonna do 20. We're gonna do like 20 to 30 times that revenue that year. However, we've only got five, six, like six times as many lawn customers. And that's just because. So essentially what's happened is we've tripled how much landscaping we've done. Right. And so that's where the money's at. But you've gotta get the solid base first and then those clients start asking you to do other things. And all the other people that want landscaping start seeing your trucks, start seeing your website and start calling you for the landscaping stuff. And that's where the money's at. So, but, but every year at the beginning in the spring, we still push hard marketing for, for getting those recurring mowing clients. But that's the only time of the year we push for it because after that it's like, okay, great, we have our, you know, we have our bases covered. We have, you know, we can pay everyone's salary now let's go full board landscaping and just, you know, make gravy. And so that's, that's usually second, third year. Like, that's when you start to see that. I think this year you're still going to target your lawn care like, hardcore over the next, like six to eight weeks. And then you're going to transition and because now as the year goes on, the return per client of mowing diminishes over the course of the next 12 months because there's not as much many mows. And so you want to get them early in this, in the spring and if you miss out, whatever, go after their landscaping and go after that stuff. Upsell your current customers in the fall, like for pressure washing and leaf cleanup and all of that stuff. Tree service, like, I'd like to see, you know, in the winter, next year you get something that will keep you busy and not just twiddling your thumbs because that won't make your parents happy. But. And you want to make money and all that, right? And so, and so even if you have to compromise and be like, hey, I'll do one semester a year, just during the winter or whatever it is, but like, I think if you go full board and you make enough money, you can invest some into like, okay, maybe you like, there's a really, you see a big need for like tree service. You could kind of focus on that, maybe get your license in that, like whatever it is, or spraying or. And then in the winter have something to kind of, you know, back you up. However, if you have a solid base of those lawn clients, you can sell them for leaf cleanup and putting down mulch and, and trimming their trees and cleaning out their gutters and pressure washing their sidewalks and their deck, like, so there's a lot of upsell, right?

Yeah.

So the next six to eight weeks, I'd be like going hardcore. Try to get at least 20, 30 more and you got time on your hands. So, you know, Put time in the website, spend a few days, don't cripple yourself. Like don't spend two weeks, spend a few days, just get something up there. For now, get the Google, try to get a bunch of reviews from friends and family and even if they're just talking about you and how great you are and how nice you are, get a bunch of five star reviews. And then over the course, the next six to eight weeks, after you get your website, after you get Google, after you've done a little bit of SEO, listen to some of the stuff I've done. Whether or not you get the course, I don't care. But then after that next six to eight weeks, it's like hardcore. Spend your time, whether it be cold calling, whether it be flyers, I, I wouldn't want, I don't want you to really dig too deep in that three, that two grand that you have, or two or three grand that you have set aside, that's going to, you're going to need that work for working capital. Because if your mower breaks down, like you don't want that to cripple you. I'd be right now you have the time. So go out and do everything that requires little amounts of money. But like is time sensitive. So whether that be going out and meeting people, going out, going to networking events, like just stay busy. Just don't be the person that's like, oh yeah, I worked all day Today, I spent two hours knocking on doors when you could have spent 10 and got way more like kick out of it, right? Like in 12 months is when you're gonna see the results of how you spend the next six to eight weeks. If you do it kind of like half hearted, like you go kind of this like halfway, you're gonna be at 100 grand. If you go full out hardcore. And you just don't care about what people think about you. You don't care what your friends and family think about when you spam their email about getting referrals and you spam their email about getting a review on Google. If you don't care about that stuff and you don't care about people when you knock on their door and they slam it in your face. If you don't care about that stuff in a year, delay gratification. That's why no one does it. In a year you'll see yourself at 200 grand. And that'll be the difference. That'll be the difference between you staying in school for next four years and kicking yourself or going at this thing Full time. Because I promise you, once you hit 200, it's a whole lot easier to get from 200 to 500 than it is from 100 to 200.

Oh wow.

Because once you hit that 200 marker, that's when you can start focusing on sales only. And that's the jump.

Okay, okay. Cause that's probably when you're mostly out of the field and you're just working on sales.

So if I was you, so if I was you, this is what I would do to my mom and my dad. I would have a plan, like literally like have a plan for the next six to eight weeks, tell them what exactly you're going to do, you know, how many clients you're going to get to, how you're going to get them, whether it be the flyers or you're like I would love if you got in the course because I think you get a lot of value. But like that's your own decision there. But like no, like I was going.

To ask you about that too. Like with the $2,000, like I was thinking about buying the course today but like it is a pretty big investment. I only have 2000.

Uh huh.

But I also think would be great just to have like the employee coaching videos that you have just to base off of so I can maybe create my own.

Right.

I think that would help a lot at the beginning of this year. So I was just wondering again what your opinion was on that. If you think.

Well obviously like obviously I'm biased because I think it's the best thing ever. And the reason I made it is because I was in your shoes few years ago and I still remember typing in landscape business course into Google. That's the reason I made this whole thing is because it's four people our age. And so you've noticed to you on the podcast like I have a lot of these now 20 kind some year old guys on there because it's for us. Like I'm not making a killing on the course. Like I make way more money on my business but like the whole reason I'm doing it is because it's everything I wanted three years ago. And, and it's just like the step by step. So kind of how like right now what I'm going to go into as far as what you're telling your mom like every six to eight weeks like and you're giving them the pointers of what you're going to do, essentially that's what the course does over the course of the three years. It's first year, you've kind of got through first year. However, I think it'd be good if you watch those videos still you're kind of in second year where it's now you really got to focus on your employee, your first one, getting it done right, professionalizing the business, standardizing your pricing, like that's all stuff that's super important. Year two so that when year three comes around and you get bombarded with people from online because now your website's on the top and you get bombarded, if you don't have the systems in place, it's gonna fall apart because if that number one employee no leaves, you're toast. And so you've got number. Year two is all about systems. So like that's like module three I think. No, four and that's all about systems. So everything from your routing, like all of that, obviously I think the course is the best thing in the world. Like you get the Lawn Pro software which regardless if you get the course, I'd highly recommend it. I think it's like 250 bucks you get it as part of the course. So like if you do get the course, I send it to you within a couple days that your login credentials, I highly recommend that it's gonna help you just push you in the right directions for systematizing. So for your invoicing, for your estimating, for your routing, like all that stuff.

Yeah, I get what you're saying and.

And so obviously I think the course is important but like going back to what you're talking about with your mom, like I and mom and dad, like six to eight weeks, tell them exactly what you're going to do and tell them. Okay, you know, by end when you guys finish mowing, like October. November.

Yeah, October.

Okay, late October, Late October. Okay. So you guys, compared to us, you kind of have a little bit of a shorter kind of window there. If I were you, I'd be saving up money to try to get something like a plow because you have enough snow there.

I actually have a truck with a plow and I, I started plowing for the first time in this past storm.

Dude, that's awesome. Yeah, like we, so we usually don't get much snow here. However we did a bunch this year. So like we just invested in a nine foot plow for a dump truck and I'm just, just got back from looking at an eight foot plow for our skid steers. So like it's all about just creating that revenue for the winter and then essentially like this is another conversation. But like as far as you want to try to get commercial stuff so that you can get them on a thing where you de ice their, their parking lot regardless of whether it snows, it's based on the temperature so that you get more, you know, revenue opportunities during winter. Yeah, but the reason you want, you'll need to do that is because they're going to their next question after you tell them how great 2017 is going to be, is going to be what are you going to do November, December, January and February next winter? And so you gotta have a plan for that and you've got to tell them what you're gonna do in September and October. As far as marketing, talking to your regular clients that you should already have 70 of them. Can you get 20 of them to be on automatic snow removal where when it snows two plus inches that you automatically go to their house, you have their credit card on file, they get charged and then you're gonna go hardcore September, October, to get commercial accounts to secure your time. Like you've got to have that all like planned out for them. And then in between that you got to have how many clients you're going to have what your monthly revenues are projected to be. And then I would really push if I was you, to try to get them to allow you to go till September 2018. Because next year is when you're going to start seeing the results. Like this coming year you're going to get one full time employee, you're going to, you're going to like probably get a second truck so that you can kind of go do like estimates while he's working and kind of bounce back and forth and. But you don't, you have quite a bit of overhead there because you have two trucks and one like. So like. But next year when you go into the, go into the season and people are calling. Yeah, because then you get two or three guys out in the field, you have your own truck for estimates. Like that's when now it's starting to look like a business. And by September 2018 you have a real company on your hands and they aren't gonna even think about you going back to school and being like the, all the college students down the street who are losers.

So go ahead, continue your say.

No, I was just gonna say so. Like I'd say alright, By September, no 2017, mom and Dad, I'm gonna make 150 grand. If I don't, you know, I have two markers. I'd say okay, if I Don't make more than 100 grand gross. Gross profit. I mean, sorry, gross revenue in 2017. I'll go back to school in January and then say on top of that, if I don't buy September 2018, if we haven't made 250 grand in 2018, then I'll go back to school in September.

Okay.

And that way they know that you're gonna. You know, what's the worst thing that happens? And the worst thing that happens is that you're a year older. Okay. You're 22. Like, you just started, right? Like, so let's give this a shot. Just tell them, like, this is what I love. This is what I want to do. And give me a shot at this. Because I'd rather spend. Like, if you're gonna go into debt, like, this is. I don't know if. No, I didn't put on the podcast. He wasn't recorded. There was just a call I had a few days ago with an entrepreneur, and he was. Someone was wanting to. He was thinking about paying 40 grand to like, get some contract or something. I told him, listen, if you take 40 grand and put that into marketing on Facebook or on a flyers even, you'd be swamped. And so.

Oh, my Lord, that would be insane.

Well, ask yourself the question this, Joseph, and that is, if you took your college tuition and put that towards marketing, what kind of a business would you have in two years?

Yeah, exactly. It's money. Very well spent.

Right? And so literally, like, when I first started, I used my. I was paying cash for my college, but then we were growing the business super fast, so I actually use my. My FAFSA money or my grant money, whatever it's called, just for like the first two months of, I think was 2014, because I need a bunch of money to marketing. We did like a big thing. So I used that, right? Like, I'd rather see you go get a loan and go like that kind of risk and spend the people. Like, you would get $10,000 loan to go, like, do marketing. Yes, I would actually do it on marketing over a piece of equipment and because honestly, if you got. If you. If you can spend over the next, you know, several weeks, two or three grand and get. And double your client list. Like, why wouldn't you do. Why would you go back to school and spend three or four grand a semester and. Right. And so, yeah, and you're gonna come out with debt either way. So, like, that's how I couldn't.

I couldn't agree with you. More.

Yeah, so, so get the benchmarks. I would put them lower obviously, so that if something happens you're still. They aren't going to force you to go back to school. I think if they see growth, they're not going to make you go back to school anyways. Like so even if you want to.

Set the 13 where I'm coming from.

Even if you set the bar low. And I think when I say that 100 grand this year, 200 grand next year is setting the bar low because I really think that this year you're going to do 120, 150 and the year after that you're going to be near three hundreds. But okay, but let's set the bar to. Or something that they think is reasonable and da da da da. Because they're not gonna be entrepreneurial minded, whatever, however you need to phrase that to make it work for them. Okay, so go ahead.

Before when you were. I don't want to take up too much of your time because I know.

This is only a half hour at 7:30. I do have another call, but just we got a few minutes here.

Okay. So before you were saying how the winter months it would be good to get like a contract for commercial stuff doing snow plowing and de icing. So the other day during the storm, I actually got a call in the morning from Dunkin Donuts and they said their plow guy didn't show up so they needed somebody to get down there and plow it right away. And I said I'll be there in 10 minutes. So I plowed the parking lot and now they want me to put in a bid in on three Dunkin Donuts in the area.

Cool.

For maintenance and for snow removal.

Yep.

But I've never done any kind of commercial bidding or anything like that. So I, I don't even know where to start. Yeah, I don't even know what questions.

To ask or anything like that. So first of all, one way to get like an estimate is literally to ask for an estimate from a competitor on your. Either your house or maybe like your church or whatever. Ask for their estimate, see what kind of verbiage they give you. The reason I can't give you directly is because I don't know your market. So for instance, I'll tell you our verbiage. Our verbiage is we will plow automatically whenever there's two inches of snow or more and we'll salt and de ice whenever the daytime Temperature is below 32 degrees. It might be different in New Jersey because It's always below that, so you might need to lower that number. But we say daytime so that like.

If it goes like 31 degrees in the middle of the night, we don't come like so they know we're not trying to cheat them. But then we say daytime and then we have two inches like specific that we automatically come that way. Number one, it's good for them. They don't have to call us so they know it's gonna taken care of. And number two, I don't have to wait for a call or wonder if I'm gonna be snow plowing the next day. Cause because if two inches have fallen, all our accounts are instantly going to be done.

Okay.

And so for residential people, I would have them on credit cards. So we have all their credit card information. We click one button, they all get charged as soon as we go out, regardless of whether or not they call or whatever. And then the commercial accounts, we give them an a la carte cost per plow if it's over 2 inches. And so they know if you know per time we come it's going to cost X amount of dollars. And if we, we salt, we charge by the pound. So you know you're going to look like get a bid from someone else, see what the rates are in your area. Salt costs different all over the nation. So like that ranges anywhere from like literally 30 to 80 cents per pound just depending on where you're at. So we're a little bit higher because just our area. And so you can throw one of those on the back of your hitch of your truck and they don't cost a whole lot. And then store the 50 pound bags in the back of your pickup. Throw those in to be able to count how many pounds you're doing. And if you can get them on that de icing program where they're not, it's not just for snow, it's also for ice. Like throughout the whole month. Then you have a little bit more of a deal flow kind of coming because they still need the ice done so that the parking lot isn't super slippery. Like that's the whole point.

Yeah.

So.

Okay, cool. Yeah, that's awesome. I never even thought about that.

Yeah. If you're in Jersey, like there's, there's lots, there's lots of opportunity there, especially when they get there. You know, the thing is though, every year it's hit and miss. Right. So like I wouldn't depend on that. We never will depend on snow plowing. We depend more on the winter for upselling customers, for doing tree trimming, for doing property cleanups, for going after commercial work that don't mind us doing lots of different landscaping in the winter, like. So all of that stuff, that's what you want to focus on. But then this. The snow plowing is gravy, so.

Okay, cool, man. I appreciate it. All right, well, appreciate you giving me all this. All this info.

Not a problem. Let's stay in contact. Let me know, you know, how it goes with your parents and stuff, and then.