Starting w/ Time But No Cash - Ep.050

Hey everyone, this is Mike. You're listening to the landscape business course podcast. And today we're talking to another Recent course member, landscapebusinesscourse.com and this is a brand new business, hasn't really even started actually. And he's already got the course though, and is really starting his business correct from the foundation, from the ground up, and really exactly where I was four years ago, looking for something, step by step process. So he found the course and today I was able to get on the phone with him and walk him through how he's gonna start his business. And the challenging part is he's starting it before the winter. So really when most landscaping businesses, lawn care businesses are getting slower in the winter, he's wanting to start. So we're gonna talk about how to do that and how to do that without even having the initial $15,000 that I recommend you having when you start the course and when you start your business. So we're gonna jump into that, see why it's still possible and where that money should be allocated and, and it's gonna be really good. So here it goes. This is Ron and he's coming from Georgia. Let's get on with the show.

So I actually just, I just started my business. I just, I was a truck driver. I was over the road. I just quit that a couple of weeks ago, took something local and immediately formed an llc.

I'm getting quotes on insurance now.

I have zero customers. But I'm trying to get the licensing and the insurance and everything set up to be legitimate before I start marketing.

I don't have what you recommend as far as, you know, 10 to 15 grand to get started, but I do, I do live out and you know, I live on a pretty big piece of property. So I have a truck, I have a trailer, lawnmower, all the equipment to, to get started. You know, obviously it's not commercial grade. What I'll need to, to move up to.

I'm thinking my first, my first priority once I get some revenue coming in is actually going to be the enclosed trailer so I can get it wrapped and start have that marketing.

You know, because a regular riding mower, push mower, those, it'll be okay for now, you know, to get me started. But I do want to focus on the marketing and the advertisements.

Yeah, for sure. Like I think whatever money you have now, you can take whatever little you have and stretch it quite a bit. And I'd be spending it on the marketing. Right, because you have zero clients, you know, even if it's just flyers that you got to print off, whatever you got to do. There'll be a little bit of money you'll need for the marketing, and if you already have the equipment, you can get away with less, you know?

Right.

I know. You know, it's heck, it's the middle. It's almost November now. It's not really the time of year to be starting.

Yeah.

So. But it gives me an opportunity to kind of get my feet wet, learn the software and start, you know, just start learning while it's slow.

Yep.

So I think I'm going to start with flyers. I. I've finished through the second part of the course.

Okay.

So I haven't got to the Facebook ads or anything like that yet.

Okay.

But I was thinking about doing flyers and targeting, you know, the specific neighborhoods where I. Where I'd like to work at.

Yeah.

And I think I'm just going to advertise, like pressure washing, gutter cleaning, fall cleanups, pine straw mulch, stuff like that. Specifically advertise for those types of things right now and not even advertise, you know, mowing or not even trying to get clients for the springtime.

But it's a little bit difficult to get those jobs when you don't have any, you know, regular customers.

Right. Yeah. So, you know, you have. You have the right idea, and I'm glad you realize that. It's a little harder to get the cleanups, but you're totally right. Don't go for the mowing now, obviously. Go kind of try to be their handyman for the outdoors, if you would, through the winter. So that's cleaning up their leaves, trimming their bushes, whatever that might be, and then get as many contacts as you can. So whether that be you do something small for them, like cleaning out their gutters or pressure washing or whatever it might be, get as many, like if you can, get 100 people that you do something for over the winter, if you can then send an email, talk to, give a card to all those hundred people, and come next spring if you can. Like, I'd be looking at this winter not so much as making money as much as just getting contacts and then mining those contacts come spring for either A, their own lawn, or B, go to every single one and say, hey, here's three of my business cards. Could you possibly give these out to some of the people at your work? And then that's a whole lot of marketing. Right. I just used this winter as making, you know, as a way to get your foot in the door on those first 50 to 100 people.

Okay?

Because like, if you don't have the money, you know, spend, like even for flyers, if you're gonna do, you know, two, three thousand flyers, then are you gonna, you know, if you do eddm, that's gonna be a couple hundred bucks to send several hundred dollars to send those out. If you do it by, you know, you know, send them out by door, you know, do you take them door by door or hang them or however, like, there's still quite a bit of cost there, so I'm not sure exactly your budgeting doesn't really matter. But what I'd be trying to do if I was you is like, okay, how do I get the 50 to 100 people that might be three fives. It might be literally going down the street and seeing what people need and then writing on an estimate for them. Or it might be even just knocking on their door and saying, hey, I noticed, you know, you got a bunch of leaves and you know, your trees are leaning up against your house. I can trim all those for X amount of dollars. I can get it done before the weekend or whatever you want to do. That would be like the lowest cost entry. Then when you get them as a customer, you get their email, phone number and their address. And then you just stay in contact with them throughout the winter, getting more work. But then come next spring, if you've done a good job and you develop that relationship, number one, I'd be going after the lawn, and number two, if they don't have a lawn or they do it themselves or whatever, I'd be going after them like crazy for referrals.

Okay, See, the only as far as what you just said is, you know, like going door to door and stuff like that is then it really becomes, you know, so what I'm, I'm trying to build a business right now. It's brand new, right? And if I'm going into these higher end neighborhoods, is that the image that I want to portray to potential customers is, you know, just a guy, you know, right? Cleaned up, you know, polo shirt, you know, looking presentable, but still just that guy with a truck and a trailer, you know, knocking on doors, or would I rather hit them with, you know, social media marketing or maybe a flyer, something like that, so that the image is coming off more professional because that's, you know, I don't have a lot of capital right now, but I still want to try to build it the right way.

Right.

And not take shortcuts either.

Right. So I kind of have two responses to that. Number one. Usually when I hear that it's people that just don't want to go door to door. As far as you know, it's really challenging. I totally understand it. It's super intimidating and it's super nerve wracking and a lot of people don't want to do that. So they take the detour of, oh, it's not professional. Cause you can make a door to door sales professional. You can make it where you actually care about them enough to realize what they need. Just knocking on the door and asking, do you want me to mow your lawn or do you want me to do your leaves? That's not showing a whole lot of care or thought. But if you come to their door and you say, I noticed when I was driving by that you had X, Y and Z that needed to be done, I didn't know if you already had someone taking care of that or if you were going to. But if not, I already have an estimate here for you and you can think about this and give me a call if you ever need us. You know, that's different than knocking on someone's door and saying, hey, can I clean up your leaves? Or do you need someone to do any work around your yard? Or like that's just someone that's knocking door to door to door to door. Whereas if someone knocks on my door and says, hey, I got a proposal here already, just based upon what I thought you might need when I drove by, that's a little bit different. And it takes a lot of guts. And so if you're like, hey, I'd rather pay a little bit more money and not have to do that, I would do the estimate and then send them in the mail, you know, like that $0.50. If you do a hundred, and these are estimates that are like, you've seen their property, know what they need. It's not like you're sending leaf cleanup to a hundred people and fifty of them do it themselves or have already done it or don't have it, a lawn or don't have any trees. And so that's like mass marketing. Whereas if you drive down the street, you take your time. Like this is more grassroots stuff. Higher investment of time, less in capital. If you drive down the street, take down the person's address, what they visibly need, whether it be like you can drive down and know, okay, that person's either gone or they just forgot about doing that. They're too busy, they haven't done it, they need leaf cleanup or their Trees are definitely touching their house, their siding. They need to be trimmed. Like, that's a quick, you know, I do a letterhead, make it look professional, and then just fill in with a pen or type it out however you want to do it. Those estimates, if you don't want to go door to door, so either way is fine. The door to door is faster because you can literally see what they need, write it up real quick and go for it and just standardize the sheet that you give them and then just obviously write in their address or what services you're performing. But there's so many ways to do it. That's not the surefire way. I'm not saying that's what you need to do, but I'd be looking for ways, obviously that is high, like, more time intensive than capital intensive. Right. And so usually that is going to require a little bit more, like, not necessarily door to door, as much as seeing properties and that you're just driving by, seeing what they need. Because the last thing, the most expensive, like the least amount of time and the most capital intensive is sending a whole bunch of flyers out or doing a Facebook ad thing. Like it is going to everyone. Like, it just, you know, you're kind of putting it out there. But when you get really specific and start sending people estimates, it'll take a lot more time. But think about it. If you send 10 estimates out to people that need something done based upon what you've seen in their property, and if they're in a higher, you know, scale, a nice neighborhood, and you can tell that everyone else is doing their leaves and their cleanups and their tree trimming, and they're not, there's a good chance that if you send 10 of those out with decent number estimates, you look professional in your letterhead. And if you have a website, that'd be great. But, like, if you're able to do that, I'd say at least one of those is gonna give you a call back. That's 10% of a response rate. Whereas direct mail, you're lucky at 1 and 2%.

Okay, so it's gonna take more time, but I think right now that's the. That's what you have more of. Right. So I'd be looking the ways to maximize the 5001000 bucks you might have, whether it be flyers, whether it be business cards, whether it be, you know, just walking around all the places, you know, and giving them business cards. You know, biz devving with other business owners, small shops, barber shops, grocery stores, like, you Know, I, you know, that's a hundred bucks to get those business cards done. And that's, you know, another revenue source. So I'd be looking at those ways, you know, what is low, low income, low cost to you, but that you're going to put some work in and get really qualified leads. So I wouldn't spend like 2 grand on going out and getting 5,000 flyers.

Okay, because, because if you, if you, it just so happens that that week something happens in your, you know, God forbid there's a massive accident or like some crazy thing happens and all of a sudden no one cares about their lawn for a week because something happens. But at the week you put all 2,000 or 5,000 of them out and you wasted all two grand of your marketing, now you're, now you're toast, right? So I'd be looking, you know, at ways to get really qualified leads. And one of the easiest and best ways to do that is drive down the neighborhood close to you so you're not driving far and see what needs to be done and either A, talking to them in person or B, just sending them a letter and saying, hey, this is an estimate. We noticed you need this on your property and we can get them for you.

Okay.

Yeah, you might be on something. I don't know. I mean, if this is, you know, if I'm going to be selling my time, then I need to get comfortable going up, knocking on doors and talking to people. That might be part of why, you know, I'd rather not.

And I don't blame you. I totally don't blame you. It's super nerve wracking, but what you said is right in that even if you didn't get clients from it, just you doing it will help you a lot because eventually you'll be doing with estimates, talking to strangers. Like you've got to get really comfortable. You'll get comfortable eventually, but the sooner you can do that, the, the better. And one of the best ways to do that is go like very uncomfortable place. And that's door to door when you're knocking on complete strangers. Because if you can get comfortable doing that, talking to someone that's asked for an estimate or a referral is really easy.

Okay?

So I would try both, I would try both if I was you maybe to get comfortable. Because I can tell you don't want to, which I totally don't blame you. If I was you, I'd print off 208 and a half by 11's have your logo on the top, have a nice Little kind of like half of the page. Be a nice about you, how you've started the company or whatever.

Don't shy away from your reality, which is you're just starting out. People support that. Don't try to front as like a $2 million company because you'll lose every time and they won't give you any grace if you make mistakes. So if I was you, I'd be, I wouldn't shy away from your reality. I tell your story the first half, you know, tell, you know what your promise to the customer is, how, what makes you different. Tell them how you're starting all that. The bottom half should literally just be. One side says service, the other side says price. And then have somewhere like where you can sign it and then go down the street, put the address, what services on the left, the price on the right. Sign at the bottom, mail some of them. Like mail 100 of those, and then the other hundred door to door, track which ones work the best. Because I guarantee you, if you do 200 of those, like the 200 closest house to you, that you can tell right off the bat they need something not just like every house, like not every house. And that's what differentiates you from a door to door person, right? A door to door salesman goes door to door to door. You're gonna look for the houses that actually need services. And you can tell right off the bat. So that might be 1 in 5, that might be 1 in 10 houses that right off the bat, you know they're in a good location, all their neighbors are doing their tree trimming. They're not. And that's the person you target.

And if I was you, I'd do 100 door to door and 100 mailing. Do the hundred mailing first because it'll get your confidence up. Once you get one or two clients and you go out there, do some work and then, then try the hundred the door to door. And if, I promise you, if you get eight or nine, you'll suddenly want to do door to door more. And so just track it. Because if it's. Because if it's the same, then okay, let's just do more of this. The mailers, right?

Because you can get 208.5 x 11 color on nice paper for probably. Let me think here. If you go to your print store, you can probably get for like 20 bucks, you know, 20, $30, then a little bit of sweat equity, and all of a sudden you have 20 qualified leads with estimates in hand. If you mail the hundred you're looking at another 50 bucks with some envelopes. 60, 70. So. So, like, all in. We're talking $300 here. And you're gonna get 200 people close to you qualified leads because you already have seen their property, and you know, they need the service. And with an estimate in hand. And so, like, I can't do that right now because I don't have the time. I don't have the time to pay. I don't have. I can't pay someone to do that. But you have the time. And so if I were you, I'd be. How can you kind of just grind as you start out and then later on down the road, you know, in a few years, you're willing to pay more money to save the time, right?

Because it. Because it will take. It will take.

20 minutes. Three. So three. That will take you 3:30. That'll take about to do the 200 estimates. Just driving down the road, you're looking at about 60 hours worth of work.

And so, like, I can't do that now. But you have the time right now, right? So break that up over, you know, six weeks. Do it 10 hours a week, you know, a couple hours a day. Get three or four done each day. If you're doing door to door, maybe get seven or eight done. If you are mailing them out, and I just keep doing that, and just from the get go, put the $300 and say, okay, I'm doing 200. I'm doing 100. Door to door, I'm doing 100. Mailing out. I'm gonna track it all. Put the 300 in. Don't stop after 10. Do all 200 and then just track it all. Like, if you get two, I'd be really concerned. Like, as far as gate, maybe we need to figure something else. If you get two jobs, right? But if you get 15, you know you're onto something and you're gonna set yourself up really, really good for next spring. And you're only 300 bucks in. Like, I'd pay $300 right now to get two. Two jobs.

So, like. So, like, you're not gonna be investing a bunch of money, but you'll get your name out there regardless. All those 200 people all already now have your contact information and your logo. They've seen it. So that's already some brand exposure. And we're talking, you know, 200 people. If I'd say anything over three for you would be a massive success. If you can get 200 things out and three people actually convert to jobs that are like three to five hundred dollars for a cleanup or something like that. That's a big success for you because it's the winter that's the heart. This is the hardest time to sell.

Right. Would you recommend, while I'm out there going door to door, do you think I should be trying to get everybody's email that I come in contact with to hit them again in the springtime?

Only if they, if they won't work for you, work done for you. Cuz like, you know, think about if someone comes up to your door and they're not doing work for you in some way or shape or fashion, you're not gonna just give them your contact info. Right. So only if you're doing work for someone will you get their email 99% of the time. And that's fine. That's the only people you need to have anyways. But I would keep track of everything. Like I'd make.

I would send those, make those estimates. Let me just think. I'm just thinking, I wouldn't make the estimates in Lawn Pro if I was you, actually. Just because the amount of time it would take for you to do those 200. However, when you. Once someone shows interest, I would definitely convert that into an estimate on Lawn Pro and so make sure they realize that going forward they're going to be getting their estimates online and through email and like get their email address and they'll get their invoice and they can pay with card. Because you don't want it to be like. Because you got this in the mail, all of a sudden everything else is going through the mail. Right. So like try to. As soon as they call you if you send it in the mail, or as soon as they convert at the door. Usually they're not going to convert at the door. From my experience. They're going to call you that night after they talk to their wife or husband and then set up from there, get their email address, set up a time, and then I would, you know, send that estimate to them to confirm the time and send it with, you know, it's now digitalized and I'd go that route.

I got another question for you.

Yeah.

So in the state of Georgia, if you want to put down any type of chemical, weed and feed or anything.

Any type of fertilizer applicator's license, man. Yes, Killer.

Which, you know, I've researched it enough to know it's something I could get.

Yep.

And so, you know, typically I would start putting out free, you know, well, for, for your winter weeds, it's almost too late down here. But then like for your springtime, you know, you want to start putting out a pre emergent beginning of March. So I don't. I'm wondering if I should put forth the effort now to get that. So I could be advertising in February and March that hey, I could do that because that will be a differentiator. Not a lot of people down here have an applicator's license or if they, if they're applying chemicals, it's not legal. They might be doing it, but they're not supposed to be.

Yeah. How much, how much does it cost to get that down there?

It's not that much, but it's a lot of. It's a lot of study. The test is pretty extensive and I just didn't know with me not having the customer base to really target, you know, market to again in March if it's worth the effort or just put that on the back burner, try and get some recurring mows this spring and then, you know, next fall try to get that license.

I don't know your market enough to know how much spraying you're going to have. And fertilization, like usually I would say yes because you're going into the slow season right now and you have the time.

So I would usually say yes. However, like that's because I know here we spray and apply chemicals and fertilizers every single day. All the guys in the crew and we don't have to have applicators licenses. And if we all of a sudden did, everyone would get one this winter. So I just don't know how much you use it how. And you really don't really even know to. Right. Because you haven't really done a whole lot, so you don't know how much. If you think you can do it this winter and still get out there and you know, work some out in the field, I'd give it a shot. I just, like I said, I don't know if you think you're gonna use it a lot. Definitely do it this, this winter. At the very worst, you realize it next year and you do it next winter because you're gonna be slow next winter too. It's after your first year.

Yeah, sorry, I can't give you a yay or nay on that one. I would lean towards.

If it's a throw up between like if it's a toss up between marketing out there and going door to door and doing that sort of stuff, and if it's a throw up as far as time. Between that and studying, definitely do the marketing. But if you have a lot of time and you're not gonna be out doing a whole, you know, 10 hours a day, if you're gonna do two hours or three hours and you have a bunch of other time, then, yeah, I'd get the applicator's license. But if not, like, if you only got two or three extra hours a day, I'd be doing marketing all day.

Do you have any good resources on.

Like, plant identification and things like that? Because, you know, I've heard you mention when you first got started, you didn't really know this and that. Yeah, I was just wondering what, you know, what did you find useful to study so that you can go out there and talk to people and sound educated?

Yeah, I don't know. I. I'm ashamed to say I never really got any formal education on it. I kind of. I would learn from the customers that knew what they were talking about. I would learn from the Internet.

There's no resource I really can point to. Like, if I did it all over again. Well, if I did it all over again, I'd probably do the same thing. But, like, it would have been better for me to know more.

Like up here, for instance, the two most popular plants we're gonna run into is a hydrangea and a rhododendron. I got those confused all the time.

And I should have known more. It's just amazing how you do learn as you go. Like, if someone points at a tree and says, I want that rhododendron trimmed, you start learning, okay, that the rhododendrons look like that. Okay. Google it before you trim it. Make sure it's the time of year. Make sure it's the. You know, there's certain types of rhododendron, like, whatever plants you're working with, learn about each one of those. And I think, honestly, if I was you, I wouldn't. It's the same thing. I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time on it. It's a parent. You know, it's a classic paralysis by analysis. People get into this starting their business, and they, you know, get the llc, they get the website, they. They get the truck, they get the logo, they get the business cards. And I'm like, okay, you got to go sell. And that's. That's what I would focus on. I would push people to focus more if they're gonna, like, go one way or the other, focus more on sales. And getting customers, because 90% of people don't care that you know the difference between a rhododendron and a hydrangea. They're more interested can they trim the tree off the house. And when you're small, that's the type of work you'll be getting. Because if they want some super educated person that they'll go get a master gardener. And honestly, if you're gonna grow a big business, it's really hard to train people like master gardeners. So you kind of almost have to learn as much as you need to know for your target market. And if your target market is super educated as far as trees and thymes and chemicals and nutrients, then you're gonna have to train all your guys that way. But I wouldn't over train yourself. The reason for that is, and this is gonna sound weird, but, but like you won't trust your guys as much if you know too much. And what I mean by that is, if you know so much, like if you have a degree, you have like a four year horticultural degree, you'll notice a lot of people with four year, like degrees in horticultural or like, they are really smart plants, they don't do very well leading a team of new hires and like frontline employees. Not all the time, but a lot of the times, because they can't trust them. Since they don't, they think they need to know everything they know to do the work. Did you follow what I'm saying? Kind of, Ron.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like so I think a lot of times people think about this one too much. If I was you, it's the same thing. Focus your time and energy on the sales right now, like 100%. You'll learn what you don't know pretty quickly. But the type of customer that is super educated is gonna go to a company that has 20 years of experience, has master gardeners, has arborists, has people with licenses and degrees. Right. That's why you gotta tell your story. You gotta make sure you're communicating clients that you're not the best, you're not the guy that has a ton of experience. And don't try to in your marketing make it sound like you've been around forever. Like be you and people will accept that. And then when they point to a plant and say, what is that? I still say, I don't know what type of plant that's pointing at. And it's funny, to my knowledge, we've never lost a job because of it. If you're honest with people about what you know and what you don't know, they'll trust you a lot more because they know if something comes up, that you will be honest with them as far as where you stand and what you do and do are and are not certified and insured to do. And so if I was you, I wouldn't even. I wouldn't even put a second thought into that. I'd be going after the sales. And then if someone asks you about something or they give you a call, you can even say, I don't know. But I'm gonna go. I will research that and get back to you. Like, people really respect the fact that you're starting out. They respect the fact that you might not know everything. And if you can kind of show that customer service that you're willing to go research and find out and learn, people are really okay with that.

Okay.

So I know that's not like, the right thing to say. The right thing to say is like, go get a course or get, you know, some sort of, you know. Honestly, though, YouTube for three, four hours on your local area of plants and tree trimming techniques. You will gain night. You'll be more educated than 99% of the customers you'll come in contact with. Literally three, four hours, how to trim trees. And then look up your local area nurseries. Go talk to the people at your nurseries and just ask them about the. Because they're going to want to talk, develop a relationship with you because you're going to be buying plants from them in the future. Say, hey, I'm new to the area. Can you talk to me about X, Y and Z plants? Which ones are most common in this area? What's the best time to trim? Like, they're going to know the best, because local information, right? It's not generic. It's not me telling you about hydrangeas and rhododendrons when you might not even know what those are in your market. So, like, go to them and they'll be happy to share information with you.

Okay.

So I've heard you talk about, you know, hourly rates and stuff like that before.

Just starting out, do you feel like having a goal of $50 per man hours starting too high? You think, should I lower that to 35 or 40 until I can get, you know, a steady customer base, or go ahead and start, you know, kind of. I think that's about the average for the area. Based on some other guys I've talked to. Yeah, about 50 an hour is what, you know, most guys shoot for.

Right.

So being New. Should I shoot for what most guys shoot for, or should I come in a little bit lower?

So usually I would say go for 50, at least as far as if, you know, your market's already in that generic. So, like, I started my first year at 40, second year 50. Now we're over 60 and up to 80. But it's just because you're adding value, you're adding better equipment, et cetera. Right. So I'm gonna say something a little bit different, though, to you, and that is I would go a little bit lower for this winter. Cause I want you to experience the value, that the experience you're gonna get is more valuable than the money you're gonna get. The experience of doing the sales, doing the estimates, communicating with clients, following up after the jobs, learning how to do the work, learning about the plants. Like, that's so valuable to you right now. I wouldn't get caught up with the dollar amount. And so shoot for the 40. I'd say shoot for 40 now. But soon as spring comes, if you have, like, if you're busy, obviously go to 50, go to 60. Like, just keep moving it up. And let the market tell you how high you should do your rates. This is one thing I don't talk a lot about, and that is the market will determine how high your rate is based upon how much referrals you're getting. And if you're super busy, obviously raise your rates. If you're getting no business, either A, you're not producing enough value, or B, you're overpriced from what the market is telling you you're worth. So the market will tell you what you're worth. I'd go out there, I'd market, I'd try to get my name out there, give estimates, you know, just do, you know, boots to the pavement, just grind it, and then see what happens. If you get. If you got 30 people call you back after 200. Yeah, it's time to start thinking about raising your rates. Because all those estimates is you're not gonna service 30 people in the next couple weeks. Right. So let the market decide. But if you get two or three, okay, maybe it's time to lower those a bit, see if that works.

But I think the thing is.

This winter, the most valuable thing for you is just getting your feet wet as far as the marketing part, number one. And then number two, just getting the jobs and then having. Developing a system from the client, calling you back from the flyer you gave them, to creating them a digital estimate to following up and scheduling a time for the job, to completing the job, to doing a walkthrough with them on the work you did, to sending the invoice to, then asking for referrals. And you'll develop that a whole lot better if you do it 20 times this winter instead of five.

Okay.

All right.

I. I know that was kind of like a lot to chew on, but, like, I'm glad. You know, obviously you're starting the business right, and that's a huge advantage because you're starting it right before you get employees. A lot of times people will be thinking about this stuff before they get employees. I mean, they'll be thinking after they have one or two, and they're like, oh, I should actually figure out how to do this correctly. So it's good that you're starting it out, right. On the flip side.

You don't want to be, you know, getting everything, you know, dotting all your eyes, crossing your T's, and then the revenue is not there. If I was you right now, I already know you're not gonna like, be cutting corners and doing things unprofessionally. I'd be pushing you just like, focus on sales and driving top line revenue, getting more sales, getting like, just grinding marketing like crazy.

Yeah. Yeah, what you just said. Actually, I know my mom has a small business season.

Residential cleaning. And so, you know, listening to your podcast, I've like shared so much information with her because, you know, mowing grass and doing residential cleaning, very different, but very similar.

Yeah.

And you know, she's got. She's got three to four employees and, you know, she's stagnant right around 120,000 a year and trouble growing.

Bro, that's a gold mine. That's a gold mine because people that have their house cleaned almost always will have someone do their lawn.

So you don't you think I should?

I think, I think you should. I think you should do a little biz dev with your mom and see if she can refer you.

Even if she doesn't let me think. If she knows the clients on a personal level, like all of her clients know, like, and trust her a lot. I would ask that she would say that you're her son. And that sounds unprofessional, but, like, when I started out, a lot of it came like that. And now I still have all of those customers, none of them left. And I haven't even talked to the most of them for a year or two. All they see is my guys. They just see all our crew. There's not gonna be a big issue with that later down the road, like switching from you someone they know to someone they don't. As long as you keep the quality up. Right. So I think if they know your mom a lot, if she's been doing it for a long time, the fact that you're her son is a great way to get in the door. And yes, it's not the most professional. Like, it's not the. You know, what you might want your image to be. But right now, it's all about sales.

Right.

Right. And so if you. If she has 50 clients and you can get five or 10 of them, that's huge. Huge.

Do you think I should come up with some type of little pamphlet folder, you know, about me, stuff like that? Just some material that she can give to maybe not all of her clients, but the ones that she does know on a personal level. And, you know, just say, here, here's some information. My son starting a lawn care business. And just have her give those out to, you know.

Mm, absolutely. And. And I would give them. I would make two. One would be for now and marketing services that need. They need to be done. That need to be done on their property during the winter cleanups, etc. And then have another one that she gives them during the spring, come spring, when you need to start mowing. And.

If she doesn't know them really personable, and she can't give them a flyer in person, you have their address. If you know which ones that she works that go to their place and make them an estimate and do your thing. And. And when you come up to your business or you come up to their door, just say, you're cleaner, lady. I'm her son. You don't even have to say that. The very fact that, you know that they're getting cleaning service is a gold mine. If I could target everyone on Facebook that has a cleaning service, that'd be, like, incredible. Because almost always, if they're having their house clean, they're gonna have their landscaping taken care of by someone else. So even if you just had the addresses to market to, that'd be a gold mine. The fact that she might be able to do some word of mouth for you is slam dunk. Like, you'll close 20% of those people.

Okay.

It's so great just to talk to somebody in here. I mean, you haven't said a whole lot that I didn't already know, but it's kind of nice to know that you. Your ideas are validated by somebody that Actually is, you know, knows what they're talking about.

Yeah. And like, you know, the main thing is, you know, just keep your. Your eyes kind of, you know, if you're just starting out, it's tough sometimes to. Especially when you're talking to other people and they're like, why are you so focused on, you know, creating systems or getting professional or especially when you're doing, like, you know, maybe next year they'll do, you know, 50 grand or 40 grand in revenue, and they're kind of like, kind of laughing at you. But it's a solid foundation. And the only reason, the only way I was able to scale so fast is because the foundation was solid. I didn't have to start fixing it once it started getting big. And a lot of times, people, they'll grind through, like, word of mouth. They'll kind of get through five years and they'll get to a sizable business of, you know, four or five hundred grand a year. And then stuff will start falling apart because they didn't build it correctly. And so most of the calls that I take are people at that position where they have two, three employees, they're not very good at managing them. And so the people in the course that have started where you're at right now are the ones that have been the most successful in the past 12 months. The ones that started last. Well, not last spring, really. The ones I know most of them, ones that started like, February, March in the course, figured things out and started right. They're the ones that, like, have surpassed me and what I did my first year of 28,000. Like, they're the ones that are, like, at 40, 45, 50 in their first year revenue because they're starting on a solid foundation. Even stuff I didn't know until my second and third year. So, you know, kudos to you. And just keep in the back your mind.

What your goal is. Like, I don't know how big you want the company to be, but, like, I'd get really specific as far as what you want from the company. Dollar amount, how many crews, how many guys, like, figure, like, what the company you want it to look like in five years. And then just keep your head on that like, every single day, because it's going to be really tough the first couple of years, obviously, and especially that first year when even if you're making quote, unquote, good money, it's like 40 or 50 grand at the end of the day. And so a lot of people kind of like, mock you when you start thinking about Systems and procedures and a website, but you gotta have that stuff. And so, you know, obviously you're already ahead of the game as far as the systems and making a solid business. Only thing I'd be saying right now is figure out the ways where you can leverage your relationships to get the marketing piece taken care of. Like when you said your mom had the cleaning thing, that's a slam dunk. That's like number one ahead of all the other stuff. I said that's number one. I'd be looking at other things, whether it be your church. Is there someone else that has a business that would have an incredible lead generation for you? For instance, someone that does dry cleaning. Can you put your cards on their thing? People that have a bunch of people coming to their shop all the time? Do you know someone? Are you related to someone? Do you have an uncle that's a contractor and has landscaping jobs coming up all the time? And is there someone you know does real estate that has open houses that you can do the cleanups for? Like, I would leverage that like crazy. And then, because like, if you listen to the last podcast we talked about, like warm leads versus just cold leads, I'd go after those people that are warm, the people you know, the people that already know like, and trust you, and then go do what I just Talked about, the 200 estimates that are all cold.

Okay.

Because that's how, that's how like, that's the fastest way to go from zero to like 30 clients. That's what I. My first year I had 28 clients, did 28,000 in revenues kind of part time. If you're going on this, I don't know. Are you doing this full time next year, Ron?

No, it'll be, you know, I'll be getting off work at 2:30.

Right.

So I'll have six, seven hours a day. But no, not quite full time.

Yeah, but like, I think you can easily do 30 to 40 grand with, with that schedule. Like that's kind of similar to what I did. I was a personal trainer my first year and I worked in the mornings on the business. In the afternoons and evenings I did personal training. So what's nice is you have the income from your other job to kind of take care of bills and the other you can siphon the money out for this first year of the business and put it back in. And so I think you can easily do 30 to 40 grand. But I think the fastest way to get those first 30 customers is going to be absolutely the people you know, whether it Be through your mom or through people, you know, real estate agents, etc. And then this very much guerilla marketing, giving those estimates out. Like for instance today, like this is a tactic I still use. And it's now we're just doing it on a bigger scale. So for instance, Today, last year to 2016, at the end of the, like December, what we did to keep our guys busy is literally I drove around, just drove around and looked for apartment buildings. Like there's hundreds. So just drive. I would drive to one, I would make a complete estimate for their maintenance of their landscaping. And then we'd find out who managed the place and we'd send them the estimate like out of nowhere, completely cold. Okay, Got a couple estimates and you know, some stuff, you know, people, we got their names so they would give us some stuff that was okay today after we did again. So we did the same thing this past for snow plowing. We sent, we went around, got estimates for all these apartment buildings for snow plowing because now we're doing that this winter. And now today we get this call from a property management company that got last year, one of these cold estimates. Just ran them out of the blue for their maintenance. Okay. It turns out they own like, I think it's 12 apartment complexes, all which are massive, and each one.

Goes up for bid every two years. All the contracts. And they do one big contract. That contract's going to be worth over $20,000 a month. And the only reason we're going to get it is because we did that cold estimate. So the same strategy we're using now though, for, for.

A $20,000 a month contract, and it's a 12 month contract. So almost a quarter million dollar contract over an annualized period is what you're gonna use to get a $2,000 job or $1,000 or a mowing customer for 25 bucks a week. So it's the exact same concept. And what I would say to you though is don't go for the $250,000 one because you're not ready for it. If you got it, fantastic. You just have to figure it out. But I wouldn't be going in there trying to tell people that your experience or your quality is amazing. I would just sell them on, hey, I'm starting out, I'm a young guy, I'm gonna make. This is what I want to build. I want to build a company that's insured and bonded and cut above the rest. And we're gonna do things differently and we're Gonna focus on our customers, sell them on that, and go for the thousand dollar job, $1,500 cleanup and landscape job. Go for those now because that's what you feel comfortable doing. And every time I've ever made a mistake in our company is because I've reached a little bit too far too fast. That's not a bad thing. I'd rather be doing that. However, like the times when we've let customers down, the online reviews that say we did a bad job, it's always we went too fast to a big job. Like, we have about. We have three online reviews that are bad out of probably 150 really good ones on Google and Angie's list and Facebook and everything. Like, we have over 150. They're all good. There's three that are bad. Every single one was when we first started, like, big work. So, like, the first two is when we started getting into grading and excavation. We do that now perfectly beautifully. But we had just got into it. I jumped in it too fast. I didn't know what I was doing. I should have. I kind of sold our company as like being bigger than what we really were, as if we had done it before. And I, like, fake it till you make it. But like, on the other hand, don't be what you're trying to sell yourself and what you're not. Just like, accept who you are and then sell based upon your true reality and people will really respect you for it. And so, like when it comes, like for instance, like trees and things like that, I'm happy to tell a customer I don't know what type of species it is, or I'm not 100% sure on what the type of disease is in the tree. However, I'm happy to refer them to other people. I'm happy to go research it and figure that out. And people respect that a lot more than, as I had to learn the hard way, faking it till you make it. And it's like kind of pretending there's a difference between faking it until you make it and pretending that you know what you're talking about. You know, don't go down that slippery slope when you're even doing the estimates. And like all of a sudden someone asked you to do like a big retaining wall and you're like, oh yeah, I can do that. Maybe you say, I can do that. But then go, say we subcontract that work and then with the subcontractor learn, like be on the job and learn how to actually do it every time I made a mistake was we, I didn't sell. And this is the problem. Like I always preach, sell, sell, sell, and market, market, market, get more business. And that's true. But on the other hand, it's like, that's always where I made my biggest customer service errors, was trying to sell on a reality that wasn't true. That, you know, to say, even though I didn't necessarily say we had done a lot of grading and excavation jobs, I made it sound as if it was absolutely no problem for us to show up with a skid steer and a massive dump truck and load 100y builder when we had never, ever done anything close to that. And so to make it sound like what I should have done and the reviews would have been better and nicer if I would just said, hey, we've never done this before. We're happy to do it for you, and we're going to stick with you every step of the way. And I bet you the same result that came out at the end, they would have been a whole lot nicer about or worked with us better on making it what they wanted if I would just sold to my reality. So I would have just. It's. If I was you. In a nutshell, I just embrace the, hey, I'm small. I'm trying to start this thing out, and I'm going to be the best I can possibly be for you.

Now, when you're, you know, someone, obviously you don't want to turn away any work. So if somebody asks me to do something that's out of my league and I say, you know, yes, we can do that. But, you know, I do use a subcontractor, you know, go through the process myself, vetting another company, make sure their license bonded, all that.

Would you get that other person out there to come give you a quote before you would give that customer a quote? Or how do you bid that so that you don't bid something cheaper than what it's actually gonna cost you to have someone else do.

Yeah. So at this stage, Ron, like I, I just refer them. I'd say, like, you can still just pass it up. Yeah, I would say, hey, yep, we have a, you know, we have three or four companies that we work with. For instance, we don't do trees that are 100ft tall and hanging over a wire or a house. There's hazardous trees. So we have three or four.

Companies that we refer to our clients. And I'm offering value to my client because I am the source of that Information that I refer them to a good company. So what's gonna happen is next time they have a need, they're gonna come to me first, knowing that either A, I'm going to do a great job, or B, I'm going to refer them to someone that does a great job. And so you want to become the person that everyone comes to, not necessarily because you do the work, but because they trust your experience, knowing that you're going to be honest with them. And if you don't do the work, you're going to have a referral lined up for them. I wouldn't worry about subcontracting until you're much, much larger, because you'll need to know a little more. Like, you'll need insurance stuff, but then also a subcontractor could take advantage. I wouldn't worry about that stuff. I'd just refer. If I was you, I just refer. Only reason I would subcontract if I was you now is if you have a big landscaping job that you could theoretically do the whole job, but you don't have the employees or manpower, and you just need to subcontract, like moving a bunch of dirt or moving, like installing 50 yards of mulch and. Or planting trees, and you sub out certain parts of it just for labor. But if I was you right now, I wouldn't. I wouldn't sub, like excavation and big walls. Because if you're the subcon. If you're the main contractor, the client still expects you to kind of walk them through everything. And it just looks really hairy when you're constantly saying you got to go talk to the subcontractor.

Okay, so, yeah, then. So I've heard, you know, I've heard all your podcast talking about employees and things like that. You know, potentially I could get a pretty large job, you know, some type of cleanup, tree removals, trimming shrubs, stuff like that. I could get something that's not gonna. That's gonna be a lot of labor.

If I didn't want to go through the whole process of hiring somebody out. If I know. I mean, I know how you feel about, you know, like the whole trying somebody see how they do.

But how would. What would you suggest on, like, if I knew there were something gonna require a lot of labor, get somebody I know and just pay them, you know, do a 1099, subcontract that way.

Yeah, I'm okay with that. Like, your first year, you know, you're making, you know, 30, 50 grand, whatever it is, in gross, like the government's not gonna come after you usually for a 1099 when you're that small.

And yes, don't go hire someone because you can't keep them busy. And obviously the main thing is use people that you know that at least you know they're gonna be dependable even if they don't have the skills. If it's just laborious work, you can just have them do it right. So that's what I'd be looking for, friends that, you know, could work on the weekends or work for two or three days and get help you do the job. But yeah, don't worry about employing people yet. Just focus on making the sales and then figuring out how to take care of the customer once the sale is made. And if you got to get some friends and throw a T shirt on them with your logo just to be professional, that's fine.

Well, Mike, I think you've pretty much answered everything I have for now.

I really do appreciate all your time and your help and you know, what you're doing for everybody with your podcast and all your videos, man, it's great.

I appreciate, I appreciate Ron. Well, stay in touch. Let me know how it goes this winter. Like, if you do. I. Like I said just to summarize, I'd go after your, your mom's clients first through referrals, and then even if you do some cold stuff to them, I'd go through your network and see if there's people like in the real estate industry or businesses that you can kind of biz dev with. And then I do that third option, 300 to 400 bucks and some time on your part and just try it out. If it's a wash, it's a wash. But you only are three or four hundred bucks in. You're not two grand in on a bunch of marketing pieces that you mail to a bunch of people. Right? So that's what I'd recommend. Just realize that.

Your response rates this time of year are going to be much lower than the spring.

But.

But then also, if you can get your foot in the door now, you have a whole lot better chance of closing people in the spring. So.