They Stole Everything—Then His Team Quit!

Hey, everyone, it's Mike Andes, founder of Augusta Lawn Care. We have over 150 locations around the world and do over $50 million in annual revenue cutting grass. I'm going to be showing a long, extended version of a talk that I had. The founder of Dalton's Lawn Care.

Do I just try and power through? Do I tweak? Do I actually retreat?

We had him on the turnaround show. They've had several counts of theft, people stealing trucks, equipment. Okay, should we lock up the shovels? He's at that stage of the business where he needs to be out in the field, but he also seems to get sucked into the admin side of things.

I pretty much have been that GM doing everything.

So it's gonna be a really, really good conversation, I think for anyone that has a business that does under a million dollars in revenue and is trying to scale it and take it to the next level.

Last week I was planning on doing a handful of changes, but I was like, I don't really wanna stir everything around, have it be a mess and unorganized when you show up. So kind of stalled off on that to consult with you, see what your thoughts were and everything.

Yeah. So like right now from. It's still like from a financial perspective still, like really like lean. The credit cards are bouncing still, stuff like that.

Yep. I say, and I think it's largely due to just not having an insurance payout yet. The 13, 14 grand in the dump truck is still paid off. Two grand on each of the vehicles for the Cadillac converters. And that's pretty much most of what's still on the cards right now. And then all the shop security stuff. Each camera was $200, the lights $84 posts. So. Yeah. And then got steering wheel locks for everything. Slowly going to transition to all those proven industry locks, which are $300 a pop. We've got all their hidden shackle locks on this trailer. They're heavy duty padlock.

It's so bad when you're like afraid of being broken everything.

I'm like three.

Okay, so we lock up the shovels.

I know, right?

It's like going to steal the bullet edging.

Yeah.

So how much debt is total in the business now, like equipment and everything else? Minus the land?

Yeah. So minus the land, I want to say probably 25,000 would be my guess for the fence loan.

That's all there's really.

And then like three or four grand on one of the. Or no. On the second plow through Sheffield and then that's all of it excluding the repurchase of equipment about a month ago, which was six grand because they stole.

All the hand tools.

Yes. So yeah, all of that was repurchased.

So 10 grand equipment, $25,000 loan on the fence. Yeah, got it.

And then yeah, all everything else is paid off and bought for. Okay.

What was. So usually. So are we growing like are we still gonna do around 500,000 do you think this year?

Right now, yes. I say if not a little less because well that and having lost Dylan, he was the one doing all of the landscaping. So I say that's been kind of the reshift is trying to get as many new mowing accounts right now. I just ran a $50 Facebook ad over the weekend and last year we turned down or referred out roughly 80 mowing accounts throughout the year. So this year went from like 114 down to 90ish and now we're back up to 122. And what did you say? Steadily five plus jobs a week getting approved since mid or probably beginning of April. So could get be higher but it's definitely very steady. With everything going on with him kind of being right hand floater with everything rather than a full field employee, it's kind of working out but as you said, three man crew, pretty inefficient. However, I do have a lot of very, very dense routes so he's going to know our routes better which days and everything are worth having three guys. But that was something I was talking to him about is trying to split that, see what days are beneficial and one of the admins tasks is going and trying to pull all the mowing timesheets and putting into a spreadsheet if you're able to allow CVS option, we greatly appreciate it.

So yeah, so she's probably got like four or five hours invested so far and just putting that in a spreadsheet that we can compare and I was hoping by at least middle of this week there will be enough data to actually review, assess, figure out which days are worth it or if no days are worth it. And then that's the other side is kind of seeing with you what your thoughts were on the employee side. Real similar to one of the questions on your Saturday office hours. So I figured with you being here I'll just kind of give you this more specifics and yeah, because at say.

400 500,000 annual revenue, the challenging part is having an office person and then you're also out of the business in terms of generating revenue.

Yeah, like well so that was kind of where my question of like that GM verse office admin.

Okay, that was your question. Oh, okay, okay, okay. That makes sense. Okay, got it.

Cause honestly, that would be kind of prepping me for my approach and how to kind of work through everything with you today. Because I was under the intentions of somehow trying to get him into like a GM ish role. But after it was the power washing partnership one your turnaround, I watched that you were like, you need to separate them. Like that actually could potentially work better, I think because he could handle the operations perfectly fine until we start getting into larger landscaping, particularly the hardscaping side. And then I'm already the sole salesperson outside of lawn mowing. And then the maintenance stuff that I can't get to and he ends up doing and then it's really just kind of working with the admin, getting her where she needs to be. The agreement was part time, so that kind of gives me the flexibility of picking and choosing what aspects should be fall on her and then kind of go from there. So I'd say with me, I pretty much have been that GM.

Last year where I was starting to get stretched way too thin. That's when he really stepped up and pretty much was like, all right, you're going to control the maintenance side, Dylan's going to control the landscaping side, which will have a lot of overlap with me doing the sales. Having the hardscape knowledge, which he didn't have but was learning quickly.

So that was kind of his winter tasks was aiding in the co pilot setup, creating some forms, try and create just a general system for how everything from an estimate that I handle and close all the way through giving him that knowledge, overseeing the project and everything. And that was the other large cash flow issue was that he pretty much lied about everything he was doing, which all of 2023, he was amazing, stepped it up, did all sorts of stuff I never asked him to. I'm like, you know, you are just absolutely killing it was always saying, oh yeah, I want to be your right hand man. Which having known him since 2014 was very believable. And then since he's got a kid or he doesn't have a kid, but he's now engaged with someone who does that he was living with. I knew I'd probably lose him over winter if I couldn't keep him employed. So I was like, I'll put you on salary with the expectations that you help me get all the co pilot stuff set up. And then that's going to give you the knowledge and everything.

And he just dropped off during the winter.

Yep. And then yeah, over two months. Because January we were taking down lights, a lot of field work. I was pretty much just having him do like outlines marking how the reinstall should go. So it's pretty much February, very end of January through first half of March. Well, nope, March is when Blahnistar and we did all of our jobs, right? Yeah. So it was really like five, six weeks that he said he was doing everything. Didn't really oversight him. And then I go do something like what the heck, this ain't done. And then I really started looking. I'm like, what the fuck? Nothing's done. But at the same time, my part time receptionist who virtually did nothing on the computer, she was just supposed to watch some of the university videos. She was averaging like 3 hours, 2, 3 hours a day over the winter. Which I was like cool. If you're watching university doing all this stuff that you did with LMN last year, like that's pretty reasonable. And then I had her do something and she didn't have a clue how to do it. I'm like, how do you like that is bare bones. Went into the university, saw that she was 0% completion.

So you used her during the winter?

She was with me for like two years. Oh wow. Over three softwares, jobber element and well I should say would have been 3. But not being at 0% completion on the university, I'm like, all right, adios.

She was at 0% completion.

Oh man. Over two months of allegedly watching videos you've been burning through admin people this year? Technically O for 1 for 20. My girlfriend's actually a recruiter, so, well an account manager now. So she doesn't have the access to all the recruiting softwares which is a problem. But she's pretty much doing a lot of the pre qualifying and everything for me. I'm kind of going in, seeing if it would work.

It is brutally difficult to have an admin person working for you remotely.

I know.

And we have command center. So like I see what you're going through and we've gone through all this garbage.

Yeah.

So it's very, very difficult.

And that's kind of the last issue is that there should be. This should all be graveled. There should be two 40 foot shipping crates and I should be saving my fun to start the building construction. But now that's. I don't even know where that's at in the picture. So I'm stuck in the cycle of being Forced to have a remote admin or do it myself, which I honestly hate doing phone calls. I don't know why, but I know that is my biggest struggle point. I am great at it most of the time, but I just outright distribute spies doing it. That's kind of where I was at. I'm like, I don't really know if or to what extent I should proceed with the admin side, realizing that it's not really a growth year. I need to go to profits. But yeah. So that's kind of where I knew you're gonna give me a lot better input as to how to do that. And kind of just been riding where we're at, stalling for you to get here.

So far with Dalton, we've talked a lot about the theft. And although it's a horrible thing, there's not much we can do about the past besides put up new security cameras and better fences and try to improve security. We've talked a lot also about the admin turnover. These had that position. It's very difficult to keep an admin person the same way it is to keep a person out in the field that is a really good worker. And now I want to talk more about a couple of things with Dalton. That is his quoting process, how he can refine that better to maximize the efficiency of his time, as well as talk about the seasonal drops in his revenue to that he can be able to deal with to make the business more profitable. Yeah, what can we do in February, March to actually produce revenue? Right now we are literally dropping revenue by 90% during those months.

So I say a large part two actually was getting copilot set up. So normally I would have tried to push to get a few landscape jobs on the books, which is what happened last year. But I was like, we need automations. Resystematize everything, address the efficiency issue last year, create all the templates, teach everyone. So I was like, this year is just basically a get co pilot, set up the forever CRM. Never gonna have to worry about. I just want all hands on deck, get this perfect. All right.

Like honestly, 70,000 is not bad. If you were consistently doing 70 to 100,000amonth, that's when like having an admin person could make sense.

And I think if there was someone there last year, we would be there. Because I for two years, this would be the third year. My ability to send quotes out is one of the largest issues. I just. It gets stretched too thin. I prioritize it to book out at least two weeks, but all of last year, I would say this list was down to here at all times.

Are these people you need to get quotes too?

Yes. Yeah, this basically my send list. The issued and then the approved. The ones there on red are pretty much all plant warranties, which I know we can do. But I'm like, I don't want to go do all of our warranty work first until we start pulling some revenue.

In the approved ones, the red ones. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah. So like Debbie Vassall, one butterfly bush swap. Jason Adler, five 8 inch perennials and one shrubbery. Eddie Orth, one shrub. Jan Johnson, three shrubs, which our plant policy is they pay for the direct cost of the plant. We do everything else. So I'm still recuperating a little bit there, but like, I don't want to just book out a whole day of losing money. Right now.

The quotes that have come in and are pending are like ready to be sent or someone's asked and you haven't got to them. How long are those from? Like how long ago?

So I say Robert Pope got issued Friday. Mike Bongario was Friday, Herzog was 417 and Elizabeth 412. But those were the ones where they've been with me for a while. They know what's going on and we're like, hey, we're fine waiting a little bit. Herzog is the only one that is wanting something done asap. And that's mulch, which I emailed him yesterday and actually said, josiah, that I'd have you give him a call probably after lunch or something today. And if all is good, we can book him for tomorrow. And then, yeah, tomorrow would be Thomas Arnold, another mulch, and then going into Bridget Murphy for a rock.

But so on those ones where they requested a quote and we haven't got back to them, what is the bottleneck there? Just your time to sit down and put the quote.

Yes, pretty much these five are the ones where I'm just struggling on time. Everything above aren't like new requests where they're like sitting there waiting. Yeah, it was from our spring service request where they said that they're interested in a project, so they're kind of like my rainy day call, we need a job. Call them. Get the scope of work. But if I didn't write them down.

I'd completely forget.

Because my thought is if we can streamline admin more. So for example, having an estimate template that you copy and paste notes from or even in copilot, just having it under the Item and service.

The description pre populates so I've got most of that. It's very lengthy and detailed. It's the copilot not being set up for big estimates to where I pretty much have to do it myself because I know all the materials and I could thought about creating packages but with that not linking to custom fields and everything being a matrix like now we're just double doing everything. So that is something I'm trying to figure out. Started or I should say created a tab for an estimating cheat sheet in the wiki with the intentions of like being able to go through each service and be like these are the components that need to be included. But coming from elements estimating into copilot. Yeah. Say how I have the estimating process set up is too difficult for someone that didn't use element or doesn't have the similar type capabilities.

Could you just throw that into an Excel document though and have like all the different things and then just like, okay, I'm putting together this project, I need four budget hours, five margin material, whatever, and then just pop out a number for you.

I was thinking about that and I started on it, but it's just too time consuming for me to do. And I found some templates that I've pulled. But trying to do it in a simplified manner is where I keep getting stuck. Because I've been involved in bidding retaining wall since I was 8. Like I don't think twice about everything I do by default is complex. So trying to change my whole system to simplify and then create it in a manner that can be scalable and used has been a focus. But the time or time requirements is what always kind of pushes that away and why it never gets done.

Right? Yeah, because like really, as long as you know what materials are required in terms of like putting together a project or a retaining wall, for example, it's like we can usually get some sort of standard cost per linear foot or something that we can just standardize it way faster.

Honestly, I started that way but did transition over the years actually largely due to Stanley Dirt Monkey always saying that particularly hardscaping price per square foot loss formula. So it's a good kind of double checker reference. But yeah, so that's part of the reason I went to LMN was so I could break that habit and, and make sure that everything is allocated for and not overlooked.

Right? Yeah. Like even if you did the Excel spreadsheet where you're like, okay, every single type of material, site prep, rental of equipment, et Cetera. So we still do that Also I've.

Got a giant material list. But yeah. Try and figure out how to incorporate it to where there's not 50 different things going on.

Is it the rate matrix? Is that what I mean?

No. So that's just my cheat sheet for it.

Got it.

Try and find.

I'll just search it.

So yeah. So I've got by all of our different locations.

And then that's kind of our naming convention. So the mulches, soils, decorative rocks, edging. So I do have all of this here.

In April when you did 70,000 that was. Was there a couple big projects in there or you were collecting on some projects.

Collecting a lot. Got it.

Got it.

I say we. I think our biggest job was 4,500 or something this year. Which last year for reference we had multiple 20,000, 30,000. So in comparison very small. But I've came to the realization this year sub $10,000 jobs is what. Yes. Huh.

That's where I think though like simplifying this could be done to where you can do these. These quickly. Like that's where we. We did up to like $100,000 jobs.

Right.

And it would take forever to get estimates out because you really do have to think the whole thing through. Every single aspect of site prep, equipment.

Transport, like everything and how that affects it. Who's going to be on the job.

Which is usually going to be you. Right. Usually you're going to get hauled out on that job.

So part of the thing I did want to address is that I actually have a weekend warrior crew. Yeah.

To do projects if needs be.

They are absolutely phenomenal with hardscaping. They all have if not currently work for luxury pool install companies. So they're building pools on. They built Albert poolholes pool which had a hundred thousand dollar plus landscape just around them. Their minimums three quarters of a million. So any. The most complex hardscape job I could imagine is a cakewalk for them.

Right.

And they are all dying and itching to work this year. They all have part time jobs right now that they hate and they're harassing me to work.

So they just want to work on like Thursday, Friday, Saturdays.

They're just pretty much all Saturdays. But this has been going on pretty much since like 2018 and is the driving factor or I should say prior to Dillon coming mid 2022 they were 90% of all landscape work. I've built a huge name in the landscaping world from it. So that's kind of where the issue of like kind of really weeding that out hinders our reputation and what we're known for. But the accountant said since I pay the weekend crew really well, but we can do five days of work in one day, that I'm basically losing all profits to get something done right away. So kind of defaulting back to that same system is going to upkeep the top line revenue, but pretty much doesn't add any profit.

Right.

So I was curious what your thoughts were on like how to go about doing that if it's worth it or anything like that.

Well, my only concern is if it's a distraction.

Right.

So if it's taking all of your day to put together these estimates and, and then we're doing the work, we're paying them so much just to keep them as the weekend warriors that we don't actually make any profit. But all of our time and attention spent on that, instead of optimizing the crew, training them correctly, making sure they're actually profitable and efficient, being able to leverage Josiah outside of projects and inside, okay, let's do these four or five thousand dollars jobs super profitably.

And so that's my biggest concern with projects. And it's not a matter of whether or not they're profitable, it's actually a matter of the time of the own is spent all on that.

Yep. I do know I spend way too much time on it. But as a trade off I have, I don't know the exact percentage, but I know my close ratio on big projects is exceptionally high.

So could we just raise prices significantly on it?

So that was my default approach this year. Yeah, but I've kind of been stumped getting that far into it. But yeah, pretty much everything on here is a project of some sort.

Most are actually front landscape jobs. But yeah, I say not all of them are on the list that's not fully updated. But yeah, I say retaining walls, we are known for that somehow at this point we get so many calls for it. Now granted I do blast all over the socials because they their stellar jobs like the wall out front was one that we did last year. So it's kind of a double sided sword there where that's like a huge branding point. What I'm known for actually why I had that TV interview was somehow they found out about my landscape reputation. The mowing was part of it, but they hammered me on the landscaping.

But part of it too is like whatever you're putting on your socials and on your website is what's going to be. People are going to call you for.

Right.

So like if, if you're putting a bunch of pictures of retaining walls, patios, et cetera, that is where your leads will come from. And like on your website, if it says landscaping and you see walls and trucks and excavators, that's the type of work you're going to get.

Yep.

And so it really just comes down to what do you want the business to look like.

So yeah, last year that was the plan because Dylan was doing really good. That's where I'm the most passionate is doing these not just like quick in and out landscapes, it's like the dream homes, the really detailed, super custom. And that's where the high close rate comes in. Because I not just going to say here four wall options, it's going to say, here's a material list. How do you want to do it? And I work very closely with them. But yeah, a huge time investment. And then that was where I wanted to grow this year is pretty much have Josiah.

Manage pretty much the natural mowing growth being all around floater. And then me, Dylan and the new laborer would really scale the landscaping. But that's kind of where I'm like, I don't really know what to do now. I know the safe option is to kind of retreat the landscaping, go into profit mode, prioritize small cleanups, maintenance, probably even like $5,000 or below projects, and just maximize profit. But then that kind of backtracks on all of last year systems, growth, focus and everything like that. So I'm not really sure, like, do I just try and power through? Do I tweak? Do I actually retreat? Do I kind of like hit hold?

Well, if you're accountant and you've sat down and say, hey, we're not actually making any money on the big projects, then just a matter of, okay, if we have a high close ratio, why don't we just jack the prices?

Mm, right.

Because then it can make up for the fact that you're spending all your time doing it. But right now, like literally the other side of the business will be unprofitable because your time is so focused on something else. And if you determine that other something else is not profitable, then we're just gonna spin our wheels.

So I say last year we scaled our weekend back significantly where pretty much we would do all of the rip out all the prep field guys. And then basically instead of bringing in 10, 12 guys, we'd bring in like four to eight more of the actual hardscape skill sets, do the walls, all the Hard stuff. And then come Monday, we would finish it out through the week with all the mulch, the rock, everything like that. So that made us profitable. But then it's back to, all right, well, now Dylan's gone. If I'm going to be allocating that time and estimates, I need someone, an admin so I can actually book out. Then going back to what you said, when you're booked out, you can charge more because they're like, oh, shit, this is a good company. They're booked out, whatever. And then that adding on top of my level of detail and thoroughness kind of seals the deal for most. But not having Dylan being a bit leery with Zuzu, not having actual landscape system created and implemented, it's kind of like, yeah, what's the better approach with that?

Yeah, Like, I think you can make good money with the current setup in terms of having the weekend career. You're going to have to raise prices on it. But I am leery to build the whole business model around temporary labor like that. Because if all of a sudden they all like, hey, they find something full time and they're gone and they start at their own thing, they're like, hey, we can't work on Saturdays. If you've built the whole brand around it, have trucks, equipment and everything built around these big projects, and then they're gone. And we don't have the skill, experience, or the manpower to get stuff.

Yeah.

Then we're in a bad spot. So it's like, take what we know we can do without them, and then whatever they can provide to us is gravy. But we're not gonna build the business around it. We're not gonna get equipment. We're not going to, you know, put all the branding around landscaping. If that is literally something that could be gone tomorrow.

Yep. Which last year with Dylan, it wasn't. We had a good base, but, yeah, that's right where I'm at now. I'm just like, oh, yeah.

So I just, like, raise prices dramatically on projects. If you're. Especially if you're passionate about, like, if that's what you love, just make sure it's a profitable part of the business.

Okay.

So if you scale it and that's what you love, you actually make money. Yeah. And then that extra money will be able to pay for someone like Josiah to be able to manage the mowing better.

Yeah.

Because right now the mowing crew is like just kind of like side dish because you're spending so much of your time on the big projects.

Yep. So, yeah, this year that's exactly what's happened. Yeah, last year, honestly, I felt it was more balanced than that. But yeah, no, this year that's exactly the rabbit hole we're going down. And I guess. Well, I'm aware of, but wasn't sure what to do from that point on, so.

And so then it's a matter of, okay, can we. Several things. Number one, raise prices dramatically on projects, the big ones. We know that first off, we're kind of. It's a temporary situation because we don't have the manpower. We're bringing this kind of temporary labor in. Secondly is right now we're not profitable on it. And if your accountant's saying that, usually accountants are like, pretty conservative. So, like, if he's saying, like, hey, you're not making money because you're paying them so much to do this, jack the prices up, you know, your close ratio is really high. Then it's a matter of, well, if we're gonna bring our close ratio down, we don't want to be spending a whole bunch of time on these estimates that we aren't going to close because we have raised prices. Because if your close ratio is going to drop from 80% to 40 or 50%, that means half the estimates we're doing, we are essentially spending time on and not getting any return, then it might be okay. Well, why don't we charge for the estimate?

Yeah, I thought about that and I kind of tweaked the approach to where now.

With the visit forms, I'll pull the info in. Admin is going to upload them to the custom fields, basically prep our build estimate that we do. And then if we don't hear an answer back, nothing ever gets done. I do that initial meeting, which I don't really think is avoidable, and then she has upwards of 15 minutes of data transfer and prep. I'm not putting in detailed descriptions or anything like that unless they engage. And then I've gotten at the point where I feel them out pretty well. If they're like real detailed in their stuff, it's like, cool. They're passionate, they want this done. If it's like, oh, here's one name from each list you sent me, it's like, okay, you're going on the back of the list.

Yeah, well, and too, like, if you charge for it, you'll immediately kick out half the people that are tire kickers.

Yep. Yeah, right.

So I would feel much better about saying yes, spend all the time on these project estimates and project proposals. If you're making $300 on every single one.

Yeah, right.

Hey, there's a non refundable deposit. If you accept the job, it'll go towards the project but it's non refundable otherwise I think you cut the amount of estimates down massively. So you don't. You save a bunch of time on tire kickers and then you actually have time to focus on the people who actually want the jobs.

Okay.

And then you're charging them a premium price and you'll know they'll take it because they're the type of person to willing to pay for the upfront cost.

Yep. How do you recommend like figuring out where that line in qualifying and charging for is? Because like they're just wanting a couple thousand dollar front yard redo. I don't really need to Pre qualify. It's 80%. Their estimate is measurements and numbers and plant selection. It's when pretty much you get into the landscapes or multiple components that I would need to start charging for. It's like almost everything on there with the exception of Elizabeth Marino.

And Carrie Wickliffey are pretty quick straightforward projects like.

Mulch, some rock, etc.

Bullet edges. Yeah. Don't put mulch on there for anything. But yeah, say a lot of like replacing mulch with rock, ripping out some shrubs. Yeah.

But in the estimate request form you would be able to tell. Right. So the estimate request form comes in and then you assess.

Okay.

Like they said the word retaining wall, they said the word grading or drainage. Okay. That's going to be a $300 non refundable deposit. And we're going to before we set up the estimate in person meeting. I'm going to collect on that.

Okay. So. So you're basically selecting certain service or components of services that would fall under the charge for an estimate.

And it could literally just be like if you need to show up, I'm going to have to charge the fee. If you could just be like, hey, it's a drive by. We want to take all the mulch out. Rocking. Great. Immediately I'm gonna be charging if it's not that.

Yeah, that's a good angle. I just explained that last week, like what the difference in when I need to meet versus when a drive by is acceptable. So I like that you can even.

Just say like if I have to show up and have an in person meeting, we're charging a fee.

Yep.

So even if it is a $2,000 job, but they're like I want to meet you. You know how it is. Someone that's like that they're gonna be a little more work. So let's get the fee from them and then that means they're serious and then we'll do the meeting and. But right now you're spending an hour, two hours talking to this person, then spending, you know, it's sitting there for a week and then you're spending three hours putting it together. Like we need to recoup that cost.

Yep. Almost everything on there is prepped. It's just waiting for them to respond. So that's kind of why I really love the custom fields but would love if you can pair with estimates. So now I'm not paying the admin for that transfer. It's get the measurements, put it in and then we're just waiting until customer engages.

Right, right.

So raising prices in the big jobs, that'll help a little bit. Collecting a fee on project that require an in person estimate and meaning that'll also help. Cause it'll reduce the number of leads that come in for that and retain your close ratio even with the higher prices. Cause the type of person that's gonna pay the initial fee is gonna close much at a higher rate. So you're gonna stop wasting time on someone's like, I want this retaining wall. They're like $10,000 budget, right? Like, no, I think 40 grand.

Right.

So you can kick them all out, save yourself time. And the whole reason I think we should do that is because like right now if I just look at gross revenue of 500,000, we cannot afford a admin person. You being out in the field or out of the field. And then considering even having someone like Josiah being able to do things throughout the day that are not revenue producing.

Yeah.

Like it just too much overhead.

Yep, exactly.

And so it's like, how can we simplify right now all aspects of the business to be able to not need that much admin time.

Yeah. Right.

So it's like, okay, we can reduce the number of quotes so you have to spend less time putting stuff together. Yeah, we can. Then it's a matter of like I truly believe based upon the 1 out of 20 situation you talked about, the ad per. And admin person might be. And you already have like a couple weeks into it. Red flags.

Yeah.

Like do we need to go through this spring rush into summer and we're just kind of like, oh, they're doing something. So that's fine.

I will say that I am definitely out of my, I guess comfort zone and area of expertise trying to train admin role yeah, because it's just always been part of what I did. I've never had any training.

Right.

And everything is just natural. I don't think about it. So trying to step back, what does she need to know? And like, all these connections that, like, I look at something and I immediately know, oh, ABC needs to be done. Doesn't happen. So I say I don't want to. I guess at this point, any issues that arise, I would say is at least 50% from me. And that's what I'm aware of. But I don't really know how to improve remote office training. If it was in person, it's completely different. But yeah, being remote, that's kind of where I realized over the weekend, I'm like, how can I adjust? I'm kind of like at the mercy of her to ask questions or anything.

Which they won't.

Yeah, exactly.

Remote won't.

That's exactly what's happening.

So. So, like, for example, like, I. We probably have 60, 70 plus remote workers. So, like, I know the difference between remote and in person. And it took us a couple years to really nail this. It's so hard. And they're just gonna do as little as possible because that's human nature if they're not being managed. Yeah, right. And like, realistically, you're not getting a ton of phone calls a day.

Realistically, there's not a lot of emails since Lisa. The last one now regularly checking that is actually part of what I went and logged to walk through or this week with is like, okay, so T mobile shows that you've got 47 minutes on the phone this day. I've got three hours for these tasks. What happened the rest? Yeah, because I did address. And she's like, well, I say. And I would probably do the same thing where you don't want to constantly clock in, clock out 24, 7. So it's a matter of like tracking that time, but also not kind of screwing her to clock in and out a hundred times a day.

Yeah, because like right now, when we look at the admin and you have it on your thing, how much it's costing every month, it's like six to seven thousand dollars a month just for her, etc. That doesn't include your time, by the way. You're spending most of your time on admin.

Yeah.

And so at a $500,000 business, which.

Last year, I will say was not the case, that's the issue.

I think you're spending more time managing her than just doing the work yourself.

So that's kind of why I was starting to question having done it before. So I think you're probably right. And then it's just a matter of like the landscaping. So now that we've addressed that being able kind of scale that down, that becomes more reasonable.

Well, let's look at it this way. So, for example, like what we could do potentially say, okay, Wednesday is going to be your administration day. The whole day. All you're doing is catching up on email, phone calls, voicemail, etc. Sending invoices, sending estimates, all that good stuff. Then you could say, hey, Saturday is. I'm with the weekend crew.

Yep.

I'm gonna make sure the projects are done correctly. I'm gonna make sure they're managed because now these are high ticket items. I'm making a bunch of profit on them. I can afford to spend that Saturday working with just them.

Friday, I'm also gonna have to. Cause that's our prep day, so they're not doing all the grunt labor.

Got it. Okay. So Wednesday, admin day. Friday and Saturday we got project management. So that's with the big crew. Then we got Monday, Tuesday and Thursday. That now you can actually be out in the field managing the team, making sure they're trained up correctly. Like not just like delegating and just blindly hoping that they do decently.

Right. Okay.

Because like right now you already know that two of your team members are weak enough to where you'd probably let them go if it wasn't for all the other stuff that's happening.

So. Yeah. So the one is Sean. He's the longest lasting employee, but he. It's like. What'd you say? Just like just the effort and all around care. Isn't there most time he knows what to do. Just.

He's just tricky.

Yeah.

Sometimes good, sometimes bad.

Yeah. But then he's.

He's right on point.

And Josiah, are you mostly managing the mowing crew right now then, like, where they're at, what jobs are supposed to be doing. Okay, got it, got it. That's great. Okay, cool. So then it's just a matter of.

Like thing with him. I want was anything kind of mowing related and then like hierarchy wise. Yeah. With everything. Because I say he does have a new guy starting with possibly into this week or next week. That. Yep. Has 10ish years mowing experience. Again, like him. And then Lonnie's another guy. So. Yeah. Between the three of them, you're guessing what, roughly 40 years mowing experience.

Yeah.

So that we kind of. Yep.

That's what. But that's when I tear it down. Like, at $500,000, if you're spending really most of your day because you're not really doing any field work right now, right?

No. Yeah.

Like, it's basically one full timer plus a part time Office admin. At 500,000, we just can't make money.

Yep.

Like, it's just too much. And you're the most valuable person.

Yeah.

Like, if your time is worth a hundred dollars an hour and we're doing estimates for free.

Mm.

We're not doing any actual work out in the field. And then you got this admin person that you're paying a few thousand dollars a month for. Yeah.

I say, so Jill's office is actually the several thousand a month you saw.

Got it. So now she's probably two grand a month.

Yeah. I say 600 a week on the high end. Yeah.

Okay.

So still high, but, yeah, not near as high as six grand.

Right. I just wonder if we can absorb it because I think you're actually still spending more of your time than if you just did it yourself. Because you're managing something that doesn't have a ton of systems, you're kind of just hoping they're doing a good job. Like, I really do believe an hour of your time in a day, you'd probably knock out all her tasks. Yeah. So then just like, what does she do?

Okay.

We got phone calls. They just name it off.

What else does she do? I say all the emails and everything.

All the estimate follow ups. Right now I've got her doing a lot of our data entry stuff, updating all of our tags and everything. So we can actually utilize the mass marketing and everything.

Uploading all of our materials into Copilot. So I need to get that wholesale price and the vendor added, which you can't do in the bulk upload. Otherwise we do that.

Yeah. Like, realistically, those last two things, couldn't that just be done one day of just locking in and getting it done?

Yes. But that's kind of where I don't really have that time.

So she just chips away.

Postponing that to first address everything else. You said to create that time in my schedule, to do it. Okay. But not having that up there is part of the reason the estimates take so long. Every other one I go do, I'm like, should I need to create a new matrix, upload items, I can just figure it out. But then in two days, two weeks, I'm redoing it again. So I might as well get it all uploaded and into copilot.

Right. So I feel like you're spending a lot of time just checking in on did she do her job?

Really? No. Okay. I did that all of last week, but that was pretty much end of day. We did our one on one training and then she would be pretty much left to do her thing for a few hours and then I would go back and do like an end of day review and just screen record it and walk through and be like hey, like this is correct, let's adjust this, blah blah blah and then show her something for the next day task. So last week? Absolutely. This week it's more like noticing it and the process of doing stuff.

Like seeing a new estimate accepted but not seeing anything on the schedule. Then it's like all right, what you're supposed to make it to do for either me or Josiah because you don't know what you're doing yet but you already have an estimate accepted. So it's like seeing little things like that that in turn force me to go back and recheck.

You could make an automation around that. Just as a side note for that one, if an estimate is accepted, you could automatically make a to do.

Well, the to do is supposed to be sent after the estimate.

Oh, I see.

You're saying she gets the info, creates the account, measures it on deep lawn.

Got it.

Inputs the square footage and then Josiah I reviews it, sees if it needs more of a review process. We need to go and do a site visit for hills, woods or anything and then it gets sent out.

Got it. Okay.

So thankfully the one she sent out was spot on. It was perfectly flat cookie cake yard. But any other one she would have done would have been accepted potentially 5, 7, 8 dollars under because it's hills or whatever.

I didn't get a site review.

Yes.

Okay, okay, okay. So assume that she's, she's being efficient and productive and all the rest of it, which she's just gotten started. My concern is that she's going to go the way of the previous admins have been because there's just not enough management. Like typically 800,000 is when I'm like get a full time person, get them in person. The only thing they're working on all day long, you have enough for them to do to keep them busy all day.

Yep. And that's what I'm noticing is I have that stuff but takes too much time for me to go figure it out, tell her what it is, do it. She doesn't have the knowledge or Ability to just piece it together and know that needs to be done right. Which circles back to now. I'm either spending too much time or I could do it myself. But yeah, no one has been, I guess everyone I've interviewed, it's always been part time job. I pretty much tell them 20 hours is kind of like the base expectation.

But I've got a lot of other stuff that you can do, data entry, filler stuff that could get you up to 40 hours occasionally. So that was my hope and goal. But yeah, that's kind of where I need to see what happened with her. Last week I made some comments, but this week I need to review. Like what are you expecting hourly? What are you doing over the blogged 45 hours from 8 to 5 every day? I can't afford you and I'm not paying you that. Yeah, and it's kind of, I guess I need that review to make any decisions on if it needs to go or if she is fine with the like 10 to 20 hours. Basically just help get that initial influx and kind of create.

To dos and stuff. Because my issue, the whole reason I hired Lisa a while ago was that I struggle trying to split. Like being in the field and on the phone. Like if I'm on a job, especially if it's rainy or muddy, if I'm covered in mud, I'm not answering the phone, I'm not climbing in my truck, getting everything muddy. It's all happening at the end of the day. But then once I get home, eat, shower, I've got maybe two hours of call time before it's 7, 8 o' clock and I can't call anymore. So then I email them and then I might get a couple of people in the morning, but then I'm back to getting muddy and special. With mowing and spring services. The first call, first estimate is what's getting the job.

Yeah, 100%. Like I think if you're going to actually try to go that way where you absorb her work and just get done yourself. It's a matter of looking at every single one of these tasks and say how can I just create a system around it? So for example, the phone calls. Okay, which ones need to be addressed right away? Probably emergency customer service stuff. Yeah, right. Does a lead need to be today? Well, in the perfect world, yes. But it doesn't need to be done in the next five minutes. Like do I need to pick up the phone? No, I could have it like push one for customer service, press two for sales. The sales one goes to like, hey, leave a message and within 24 hours we'll have an estimate to you.

How do you set that up? Is that like a software I need.

Or what phone service do you have now?

T Mobile.

And is it like just a cell phone number? Basically, yeah. So you probably could contact them and just be like, hey, I want to create a VoIP VoIP, VoIP, like phone thing where it's voiceover IP. So where it's basically going to split people based on customer service versus sales. So like that's just one system though. For phone calls, for example, with email you can create all sorts of filters. For example, if you get a filter that says filter all, any email has the word unsubscribe and just put it in my spam folder. Okay, you will cut out 80% of your email like that.

I keep mine pretty well upkept, but for emails I actually built what's called the Client Writer Pro GPT where it writes almost identically to me so I can bang out emails really fast.

And there's probably realistically five to ten emails a day that actually need to address. It's the other 50 that are like random vendor stuff, receipts, spam, people trying to contact you for marketing, all this other garbage. You can filter tons of that out.

Most of that is right now, but yeah, so I would say 5 to 10. You are spot on about of daily emails.

And so that's why I think like if you literally had one day a week where everyone just knew that that's the day they get their estimates from you, that's the day they can contact you, that's the day you respond back to emails and estimates and phone calls. And in the voicemail you literally tell them like, hey, if you want a new estimate, fantastic, we'll get that to you within 24 hours. And then if it's a longer project, I'll make sure I'll get you on the schedule for next Wednesday and you can literally leave that as the voicemail. They then leave the voicemail with that expectation.

Okay, right.

Because I have a feeling right now, most phone calls she still asks you what you want done.

Yeah, say that when do you want.

This estimate on the schedule?

So we've got the calendarly link so that she just sends all of that out that stream slide. And yep, Zapier puts that as a to do and a meeting.

Oh dude, look at you all sophisticated. Zapier, bro.

Yeah, I say it's taking a lot.

To learn, but yeah, that's cool, that's good. That's a good workflow.

That's why I've learned you can even make it stuff like that. What's going to save me.

Totally. And you can even make it work on the voicemail, you literally say, hey, if you're ready to go with your big project, go to this link and go ahead and schedule. And in calendar, you can charge the $300.

Yep.

Yeah, you can just set it up as when they set up the appointment.

They have to pay do you know, can that be then transferred into copilot.

Or the revenue, like the $300. I would just have that going into your bank account and then do that on the QuickBooks or whatever the back end is.

Because, you know, maybe then a to do that informs copilot or informs me and copilot to like add to their account that 300 was a paid deposit.

You just know like, yeah, you could set up in the to do and.

Say at this point, I'm the admin. So as a credit. Right. Yeah.

So you could, you could do that, but then it just eliminates so much. Like number one, we're going to eliminate probably one out of two people that even want an estimate for projects because we're asking for the fee up front.

Right.

Then it's a matter of, okay, well, if we can reduce your admin time by half because you're getting less estimates, can we then create systems around these other things so we don't have to have that person?

Yeah, right.

Like from your angle, Josiah, like, like, do you think the admin. Like, do you see holes in that right now? Okay.

Yeah, I definitely.

Strategize his meeting and all that. A lot better off. Like, like you said, like a day, first meetings, admin, all that.

Because I feel like you're kind of already doing a little bit admin too, on the mowing side, like scheduling and.

Yeah, okay, so that was going to be my question as like following through with this. What is that change in like field guys, his role and everything?

I think I'll need two days administration, so let's just say that. So then are we now trying to push more of like the small end projects that Josiah is doing, or is it now looking into getting rid of the two underperformers and keeping Pam, Lonnie and Jason that have 40 years combined experience, how's that all affect it and everything?

The big thing is like, I believe when you take a crew of say five and you take out the two lowest performers, the other three get just as much work done. Yeah, they move faster. They don't have to have three guys in on one truck. You put one or two. And all of a sudden, instead of getting 25 jobs done with a crew of three, they get 20 done with a crew of two. Yep. And so, you know, in my opinion, like, I would say the Josiah could probably take the entire mowing, everything, including even, like, now, do you handle estimates at all for mowing? Like, I just say all mowing is all relegated to him.

That's what. Yeah, we're basically prepping, doing the computer stuff because. Say it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the computer side's definitely your biggest struggle. Point between.

Yeah.

Once I learn it, it's.

Yeah, yeah, you're not like me, where you can see something. It's like, ah, this, this, this, you actually like.

Yeah, I'm more on a schedule now to where I know what my tasks.

Are on the computer.

So. So if we know, okay, all mowing is being handled by him. Everything to do, everything that rhymes with mowing from a lead coming in to the time that they're paying invoices, like, that's his responsibility, right? Callbacks, training the crew. Like it is his responsibility. It's his responsibility at the end of the week to say, okay, what's our efficiency score?

Yeah, right.

Budget hours divided by clocked hours. I happen to believe that if you take five guys that are currently working 200 hours a week in terms of clocked, I believe if you take that down to three guys and they're working 140 or 150 hours in the week, I believe you get all the same amount of budget hours done, immediately increasing your efficiency score by 20 to 30%.

That's pretty much right in line with what I was looking and thinking. I actually printed out this when you said you guys are all trying to pause and screenshot. Yep, that was me. Well, I screen recorded it, but yeah, I thought that that would be a good approach.

And then it's handed off to him. It's like, hey, he hires his crew, he puts them through training, he tracks their efficiency score. Like, I genuinely believe if you went from five to three guys, everyone work a few more hours in the week and you get all the same work done. And your efficiency score would probably go from 50% to 75%.

Like that. Yep. So that is perfectly in line with why I was thinking and wanting. So then what does his weekly schedule then look like? If he's doing all of that, but also all the repairs and stuff, how hopefully repairs decrease, but repairs and maintenance how long a week would you say you've been doing that for.

All the mowers, the trimmers, like making sure that the.

I didn't think it was too time consuming, but there's something that needs to be done. What feels like every day, what we.

Could even think about is like, okay, if the first hour of his day is maintenance and prep, the last hour of his day is estimates and scheduling. Right. With a crew of three guys, I think that's doable.

Right.

So if there's a mower that needs redone, blaze need done in the morning, whatever. Great. If there's one or two leads that came in the day, he's got to go drive by them, knock those out at the end of the day, and then schedule and dispatch everyone before he finishes up.

Yeah. Right. I just want to make sure that you end up getting overloaded.

Do the maintenance in the morning.

Time. Whenever I go out into the field and do all that, depending on what time I get off, it depends. Go drive by a property or go home and.

On a computer.

But you feel overall like admin is just like we're over indexing on how much time I spent on that. Okay. And do you think that is a matter of like we just are.

That don't do any revenue producing, aren't.

Really putting any revenue.

Right.

And so if he's not going to go in the field, you think he could probably take on all the admin tasks himself.

Oh yeah, I know. Like, so he's got the most hardscape experience.

So that was the focus of getting an admin. So I'm now 20% admin, 20% sales, 60% hardscape in the field.

Right.

Anytime he's in the field, that should.

So then why don't we do this Friday and Saturday? It's money in the bank. It's about project management.

Right.

Let's do Monday and Wednesday, full admin days. But we're going to require now people to pay for an estimate if they're doing a big project, which would cut that in a massive amount of admin time. So you can fit it all in on Monday and Wednesday.

Yeah.

Tuesday and Thursday is like really? Ideally you're able to get work done like actually in the field and produce revenue by just creating systems. I think at first you're still gonna be stuck doing admin stuff, but I think every one of these tasks that currently are reactive, like PHONE RINGS I must answer can be created systems around to where you don't have to react right away. You set the Expectation for the customer. If you want us a new job within 24 hours, we'll get back to you.

Yeah, right.

And then they give us X, Y, and give us your name, phone number, address, and a scope of work that you want for their project. Based on that scope of work, you know, am I going to be emailing them a link to Calendly, or am I just gonna be driving by their property and sending them a quote in the. In the mail on next Monday or Wednesday?

Okay.

So then where would you say? In my admin or I guess how much weight should creating systems hold? Because I say, like, the phone calls. Getting that voiceover ip gonna take some time. Getting the lead forms that really streamline everything, integrate with Zapier. Take some time. So that's where I'm constantly, like, getting all these ideas, kind of prepping it so I know later that this is what I want to do and everything. Should I now try and prioritize that or make that my Tuesday focus, as Tuesday's like systems and whatnot. Trying to streamline forward thinking.

Honestly, I think you're overthinking.

Okay. Okay.

Does he just. Generally, you kind of think overthinking is a thing?

Yeah, I'm an overthinker on that.

Okay. Okay, great. So we're on the same page. I don't like saying that.

Feels like universal fact. Everyone, my parents, girlfriend, everyone will agree.

When's your birthday?

Huh?

When's your birthday?

July.

Okay. All right. Okay. I'm in September. I overthink stuff too. So this is the thing. You're overthinking it. Here's why. In one hour, we could figure out the VoIP thing. Grasshopper would literally allow you to have a phone number and you split it to your existing phone line. We have to change anything with T Mobile.

Right.

And you literally just exist there in order to be able to split phone calls based on sales and customer service.

Right.

And you could even have press 3 if this is an emergency and it then actually rings on your phone. Most people, one out of what, 20 people may, it's an emergency and you actually need to pick up the phone when you're out doing something.

Right.

Or they leave a voicemail and you do have to react right away. But most of the time it's like, I want a big project, or like, can they skip next week's service? Or I'm wanting to pay my invoice, or I have a question about my estimate. Those are things you can get to later in the day.

Right.

And so instead of saying, okay, here's the 50 systems I need to create to make this better. Just be like, okay, I know, I'm gonna let her go. And immediately you're gonna find out where all the bottlenecks are.

Okay.

The phone calls, I can't actually be picking up five of them in a day. It's too reactive. Okay, great. I'm gonna create the VoIP thing. It is literally a one hour operation. Right. And then it's a matter of like, okay, data entry. Like, for example, I agree there's a ton of products you're going to create a spreadsheet on that is a one day I'm gonna lock in and just do this.

Okay. Usually right now it's like 10 o'. Clock. I've got energy, but brains toast. Let me start uploading.

And you do 20 or 30 minutes and then 20, 30 the next day. And then. And this is why you're having someone like an admin being like, over the next few weeks, check out Copilot University. When I know if you just said, I'm going to lock you this table and you're going to watch every video, it'll take two to three days max.

Yeah.

And so I really do believe, even though if you wanted to list all the things, hey, these are things that have to be done, then it's a matter of like, how long will this take? If I sit down? Just do it literally in 20 minutes. I could have you set up on Grasshopper.

Okay, right.

Let's say it's an hour, though.

Yeah, right.

It is literally. Go in there. Create the routing for sales, customer service, and emergencies. Where do they go? Okay, well, number two is customer service. That's gonna go to the business line. Number three is emergencies. It's gonna go to my cell phone. The customer's not gonna see it though, because they're just calling the same one number at the top.

Right.

And sales, I'm gonna have a voicemail. It doesn't even ring. It's simply gonna be, thank you so much. We love to do service with your property. If you have a big project or anything like that, you just walk right through the line.

Give them the option to, hey, on the website too. Go get an instant quote for lawn mow.

Exactly. If this is mowing, you can go to our site and get an immediate quot or within 24 hours, we'll get back to you. If this is a big project, give us a scope of work, your name and address. We'll get back to you within 24 hours. And then you know that gives you 24 hours to be able to send a link in calendly that's gonna charge them. If it's a big project, would you.

Say it's worth adding calendarly to the website or keeping that like us being able kind of filter assess and then send it. Or with the deposit requirement, they kind of weed themselves out on the website.

This is the part where you're going to overthink a little bit. But I like your headset. Because what I like is like on the form you say choose what services you want and they click something like retaining wall and you have it. Then it says, okay, here's the calendar link and you know you're going to charge for it. Okay, that's down the road though. I don't want to say that because I literally know that will be a month long project.

I just thinking, yeah, with the calendar.

Don'T worry about it. Have the form, you know, within 24 hours you're going to look at the scope of work and determine whether or not you're emailing them a link to. To calendly to pay and schedule an appointment. Or is this something I can literally drive by tomorrow, Monday or Wednesday and knock this out in 10 seconds.

Okay. Cause I do have a real good subcontract company for all the big stuff. So I say I'll just prepare them. Be like, hey, anything for sure, 10k or over, anything real complex. Just heads up, you're getting all my bleeds and everything.

But you still did the estimate, is that.

No, I said I just hand it right off, 5% or 500 bucks.

So let's say someone schedules a calendar, pays you $300, you just still would hand that lead over to those people?

Pretty much, yeah. And that would be the only restraint on putting on the website is that I can't pre qualify them.

Well, the $300 alone will pre qualify people.

Yeah, but say like if that's something for them or whatever or to refer out mostly this year all of the repainting walls and everything are existing customers calling. So I'm like, I'm definitely meeting with them. And in the past I've always tried to work it out to where like, well, they're my customers. I like to keep it simple. Basically just subcontract them and then we'll do like the mulch or rock and the plantings after they come in and build the wall.

So is that the majority of your project though? You still have a presence on the property?

Yes. Or on the larger End. That's what the focus is was going to be this year and three that I've sent out to them. Yeah. Is just saying, hey, like I just need. You come in, build the six foot wall. I'm not messing with permits. I don't have the guys right now. Or.

Right.

You. I'm gonna do the rip out and the French drain. You come in, do the concrete pour and the cleanup and everything.

Right. But the customer's still thinking Dalton's Lawn Landscaping. You're getting the invoicing.

I'm their contractor for most of them. Unless it's just pretty much it. New customers. Is when I'm saying, here's my buddy Brett at Lawn Systems. He'll take care of you. This is outside our wheelhouse.

Right, Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. I think in general I'd run this if I was you. Is like run things by Josiah when you think you're overthinking something. Because if he can't understand it, I think we nix it. Because we're running a $500,000 business and you have the brain of a $4 million company.

Yeah. Also that. That was the last year.

Which is great. It means you can probably run a business that size and be okay. But right now, where the business is at, it needs an operator.

Yeah.

It does not need an architect.

Yeah.

Someone's like literally thinking about these massive systems. Like genius stuff. Like all the forms. Like how I'm going to link it all together and subcontract. We're running a $500,000 business.

Yeah. We'll get there.

But we need that right now. We need an operator. Right. Like so I've always said, like from 0 to 200,000, you need a labor. Someone just goes out and works hard. From 200,000 to 800,000, you need a manager.

Yeah.

Someone can manage people.

Well, I've been saying I am horrible at say I can. Well, 800 picture.

I can do 800,000 is architect. 800,000 architect. That's why I believe if you fall back into the role of a manager, you'll get to 800,000, be able to hire a full time admin. And then you will be able to focus on what you're probably really good at, which is the architect stuff like building the business and the systems and all. We're just not there.

Yep.

And so like being a great manager right now, trusting Josiah on things, taking the admin stuff yourself, having these systems, like a manager has systems. They look at each of these things like, oh, I can make this better. I Can make this better. Oh, I can make this better. Like every single aspect. That's what a manager does.

Yeah, right.

And I know it's like, man, I thought this year was the year to jump to that. I'd say if you take one year and just focus on being a great manager on all these tasks, you'll be able to get to 800,000 and then you'll be able to focus on that stuff. Okay.

Yeah, that was where I felt last year, I kind of capped that, was that none of those systems were created.

Right.

So that was the winter focus. So then I guess forward thinking, if we kind of do that same approach, kind of push back the systems and just try and focus. Great manager, refining all of that, then what can I do to avoid this being a repeat? Hopefully, obviously the theft isn't an issue.

Next year, but knowing that as the business grows, your role will change.

Yep.

So if someone's stuck at being a laborer, they'll never get out of the field. They'll never go out and do focus on estimates and then the business will stall up against 3, 400,000. On the other hand, when you're needing to be a manager from 200,000, 800,000, if you're over here in architect land, you'll never actually get through 5, 600,000 annual revenue because they need a manager. They need someone to actually think about these things. And no admin person's gonna actually create those systems for you.

Right.

Unless you're paying someone gobs of money. But like this is going to require a manager to step in and take all the skills you have around creating systems on these operational tasks that will get you to 800,000. And at that point you'll hire a great admin person to cover your butt there so you can focus on architecting the business.

Okay, so I've got 65 grand for admin. I have my mom who's probably the best admin anyone could ask for.

Fantastic.

Yeah. I have to be able to match 65k with benefits.

Let's go. We can do the 800,000. Knowing now you got a superstar in the admin that probably unlocks you to 1.2 or 1.3 million.

Uh huh. Yeah. Well her company's doing 20 million plus and she's the backbone.

She'll step in and perfect all this stuff behind you.

Yeah, but I need some baseline to get us there. And that's where I know it ceased to exist last year.

Yeah. And a lot of times it's like, well, I want to be Working on the business. I want to be an architect. Great. You will be just if you do it out of order, the business will get messed up.

Yep. And that's what's happening.

And so you're overthinking like the architecture of the. It's like, no, no, we just need to move the rock. We don't need to think about a crane and all this other like very architectural stuff. Like just focus on moving the rock.

Yep. So then with phone calls, then that system up until hiring my mom or someone is that we're gonna split three ways.

Yep. The voip to be able to do the customer service calls, sales and emergencies.

Right.

Most customers are self aware enough they know you enough to like, is this an emergency? Yes. And if it does, it goes right to your phone. So now you're not worried about like what if there is an emergency?

Yeah.

Right. Okay. Email. We're gonna create all sorts of filters to be able to block out sales stuff, people trying to spam us. And we're gonna try to get to the five or 10 emails that we can answer in 30 minutes at the end of the day.

And also have my mom assist with that as well.

She'll knock out in 20 minutes at the end of the day. Like literally at 500,000, you're five to 10 emails.

Yeah.

You do not need someone watching the email inbox for four or five hours.

Right. I say the problem with her doing that is just not knowing policies or anything. Which is large part why I made the GPT. So you can literally just paste in the customer answer. It'll either give you the policy that you can word yourself or say, give me a response using our policies.

And I love the fact you have the GPT thing.

Yeah.

Again, that is an architect's brain. When we're talking about five to 10 emails a day, you can do this in five seconds.

Yeah.

It takes you more time to copy and paste it than just like knock out one liner to the customer.

Yeah.

And so you're, you're, you're really good at the architect side. I think you're gonna crush it once you grow a little bit more. But we're gonna struggle to get past where we're at now. If you don't just come back. Okay. I'm just gonna like there's five or ten emails. I will knock these out in literally 15 minutes because yeah.

The reason got created was post Peru my mom up kept my inbox, but not the all office. I'm like, oh, there's literally like 60 emails. This is several hours. Hold on. 30 minutes on chat GPT. All 60 done in 30 minutes.

Yeah. You doing it, though. You doing it right. Trying to train someone else to use your GPT and understand policies and procedures is going to take too much time away from you. Just doing the work well.

So the GPT is designed to where they don't need to learn or know or look through the policies. It's what's our mowing scheduling policy? And it just says we don't offer bi weekly. We schedule weekly for an assessment, cut the yard as needed, offer or bill for partial cuts if needed.

And you can put all that in your wiki and copilot, by the way.

Yep. So honestly, I do have that.

Yeah.

But, yeah. So trying to filter through.

Yeah.

Three pages to find two sentences.

Right.

Is where the issue comes or how people. People interpret it differently. So that's kind of where I'm like, let me just upload everything in the wiki into a GPT. So you ask a direct question and it gives you that answer and that's great.

When you need a nan in person right now, you taking it over, you don't even have to think about GPT. You know, it's all in your brain. But then you're gonna curate systems for every single one of these, you know, follow up stuff. You'll end up automating a lot of it.

Right.

Like, I believe even with the phone calls, you'll actually have a better customer experience. Because right now there's four or five hours of the day she's not even answering the phone.

Mm.

And there is no, like, you know, segmentation.

Yeah.

Or like preparing the customer for what this to expect.

Same voicemail or all.

Everything.

Yep. Yeah. Right.

So cool.

Because honestly, they did love speaking with Jill's office from, like, the human side being different, unique. But they all got driven up a wall that they couldn't do anything about it.

Right. You just like, create a ticket, send it to you, and then you still have to do it.

Yeah. Which that gives me great reference as to what to anticipate, call volume and everything. What the. How many are spam? So great insights. Glad I have them. But yeah, never again.

All right, well, I think we have a pretty good spot to go from here.

Right.

It's like Monday and Wednesdays, focus on admin. Friday and Saturdays, focus on project management. Tuesday and Thursday. The goal is over time to be able to go produce some revenue. At first, you're going to probably be just managing this stuff, but we're going to Lock in what we're actually going to do next Tuesday, what we're going to actually do next Thursday. To make sure these things are manageable, we're going to cut down probably by 20 to 30% of this admin work by simply requiring a deposit on large projects. And then we're going to increase the prices on those projects so that we're actually profitable on them on Friday and Saturday and we're not just spinning our wheels.

Yep, that makes sense.

So then I guess final thing would be with the schedule, employee wise, knowing that there's four full time right now, one more coming soon. Do you think it's better just scale back down to the three that are going to produce the most right away or kind of work with.

That would be an excellent question for Josiah. Right. Josiah's gonna be the ones with the guys all day. He's responsible for training them. He knows what their strengths and weaknesses are. He knows, like, what's our backlog? Do we have three weeks worth of little projects I can knock out with someone because maybe they stink at mowing, but if I throw them on one job all day long and they just spread mulch, they're fine. Right.

I think that we're gonna be all right with all the guys.

Yeah.

Because we're.

A few that two people. A few of our days at two people.

Did I notice that you're trying starting a second route of your own on co pilot, or did one just get scheduled differently?

My mowing route. I have one day mowing around right now.

Yeah.

And it's. But with all our rain, it's any workable day, everyone but me is mowing.

So I'm trying to think them with five because I'm in full agreement. I hate the idea of three guys together with the exception of one prop or one route.

Right.

And that's a common ground with what, 27 houses?

You park one spot.

Yeah.

I like three guys on the mowing route, but you have to moderate.

Right.

If your crew leader doesn't know how to run three guys, which.

Yeah. Sean can't.

Yeah.

When they're on a property and they're running two mowers.

Two trimmers and one mower.

Yeah.

Yeah. So my concern that I think we've both acknowledged and this week, why we didn't follow through is Sean. He's the current crew lead. Longest standing employee. He was the crew lead. And then I hired Josiah, and I'm like, I can't in good conscience, personally or business wise, let you be Josiah's boss. So he got demoted while Josiah became crew lead. And then that was pretty much a year and a half. Year and a quarter or something. I'm like, all right, you've earned your opportunity to be crew lead. Now if I go demote him, bring in, repeat exactly what happened in 2021, is he gonna quit? Is his just care and effort just gonna disappear and kind of how to go about dealing with that?

At 500,000 annual revenue, there's no hierarchy.

Yeah.

You are the boss. And then you have team members.

Right.

And if you're gonna. If you're going to try to grow past, like a million plus. Yes. You're gonna have a mowing department manager, you're gonna have an office manager, you're gonna have a projects manager and an estimator, et cetera. But right now, they still need to look to you as the owner and the boss and you as the manager, which means you're still there every morning. You're still the one that they're gonna come to. They have questions about their paycheck and things like that. But when it's still.

Anything mowing related is just science.

You're gonna hold him responsible for that. But, like, they're not. He is not their boss. Right. When you grow a lot larger, you can put hierarchy in place. But right now, we can't afford it. Right now. We need to. If they have a problem, they're still going to come to you. And you're there every morning for team meetings, et cetera. At 800,000 plus, we can start having a conversation around. Okay, the mowing team, they start at a certain time, and Josiah's going to handle that. But right now, at 500,000, we need to be a manager. We got to keep our hands in the business. We need to understand where everyone's at, what's going on. And then on Josiah's end, like going into dispatch board, at the end of each day, click, show stats. See the budget hours from each crew. Divide that by how many clocked hours. There's your efficiency score. That number should be like the number we track.

Yeah.

Because that number will tell us which employees are efficient.

One men literally told us on the timesheets. So I knew I could figure it out. Can you show me exactly how to do that best?

Yeah. So go your dispatch board.

And you can just go like to yesterday, for example, because it's all finished.

And if you just select.

All right, so if you scroll down and if we just select as many as we want, you can hold.

Filter her to right oh, you could.

Yeah, that'd be. Make it easier.

And then you can select all. And even if you're not on this page, you can, you know how to like hold shift and then just select like everything a couple times and it didn't work. Wait, if you click and they hold shift down, so you click on it.

And then hold shift and then at.

The same time you gotta like be holding shift, click it and then click somewhere else and it'll select everything between.

Yeah.

Then click show stats. And then here is going to show you how many budget hours so. And how much revenue is produced. Okay, so you could literally take 16.34 divided. Was it a two man crew or three? Yeah, I'm guessing this.

Yeah, that was two. Yep.

So this is a super efficient route, I bet, because do you work 10 hours for the day or did they.

Yeah, so that was Friday route, that's Arlington Greenmarket and all of that.

So let's say they work 10 hours. If you take 16.34, divide that by 20, they're running at 80, a little over 80% efficiency. That's good.

So where is that 20 coming from?

That's clocked hours. Okay, so budget hours divided by clocked hours gives you a rough estimate of like what's their efficiency score.

Okay, so then you would need to view this plus their daily log to pull that 20.

Their clock time. Exactly.

Okay.

Yep. Okay.

So then be 18, which again, great efficiency or 16 divided by 18. They're. They're doing good.

Okay, Right.

But then what happened? You'll run a route and you're like, why is it so low? These are my good guys. Could be the fact that it's spread out more, bad pricing, so they don't have enough budget hours, things like that.

Extremely compact, with the exception of some new ones. Got it.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's great. Right. But it's just a way to be able to actually, you know, keep track of who's efficient, who's not.

Right. Yeah, that's solid. Yeah. Not purple. That's our ideal expansion.

But yeah, got it. No, it's really good.

Yeah, that was the route of that saying three man crew. I'm fine in that one there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool.

But yeah. Okay, so.

And then sometimes it's more a matter of even the jobs, like if the jobs are underpriced, your budget hours are lower and they're lower than they should be.

Right.

So for example, like, I'm guessing it's like a half day kind of situation.

Yeah.

Yesterday or did you do it by yourself Saturday?

Yeah, two o'. Clock. Oh, yeah, that's Fred. That's right.

There's a lot of driving on that one. I usually take like. So if we get like just like a off property, that's kind of out of the way.

Yeah. You just throw that on there.

Yeah, I have that on my route.

Since which you now you actually be able to see why it's like, oh, man, our efficiency score is only 75. We kicked butt. Or 60%. And simply because the drive time.

Right.

Because drive time will kill you on efficiency score.

And then I'm also training the guy.

Yep.

You know, kind of going through stuff, making sure that he efficient.

Yep.

But the right way. And especially once you have crews that are not. You're not with them and that you're not able to manage them directly. It's just a great way to know, okay, who's my top performers, who's underperforming, which routes are just inefficient and unprofitable. When you raise prices on things like that.

Like, I think you have a good mowing route. I think mowing jobs coming in consistently, we can make that side profitable. But if you and your accountant know that, like, hey, the big projects we're just not making money on and you're spending all your time on essentially getting.

Paid out like 35 an hour. But I was getting 2000% energy from them. Really do a week job and six hours. So I'm like trying to grow from fully owner operator, me being the primary one the field to here. That was extremely beneficial.

Right.

But yeah, now it's kind of stalling out. And it's like, all right, this is needs to be readdressed.

Right? Yeah. Like, typically when we look at labor, we want to be making it look, I call it the rule of 25%, which is if I'm paying them $35 an hour, I need to be charging the customer four times that, which is $140 an hour.

Yep. Right.

And to make that make that sense of 25%, which I'm guessing we're not at 140.

No. Right.

So that's why, like, we got to raise prices on the projects. Because if we're going to be paying them $35 and they're awesome, great. But we've got to be making 140 or ish. Let's just call it 120 even or 100 even. I'm guessing you're 80. 100.

Yeah.

So I'd probably go to 125 for.

Maintenance, 100 for landscaping. And yeah, just emailed my account and all of our labor hours and everything to calculate a new break, even cost. It's like 100. I know. Is not going to cut it right now.

That's 35%, right?

Yeah. Before I just guess and come up with a number, let me have him pull the stats and build something off that.

So that's good.

Yeah.

Sweet. Now I think. I think we're in a good spot. It's like we're going to cut down on admin by simply reducing the number of projects by requiring an upfront deposit on big ones that otherwise you're spending probably two, three, four hours really thinking about what you're going to put into it, and then it doesn't get accepted. It's a waste of time.

Right through the way. Yeah, I think it was two hours on a 5k one now grant. That was a good family friend. I knew it was locked in. It was just a matter of what's now, what's in the fall. And he confirmed he's accepting the 2,800 now, ready to go. But the other portion will be this fall.

And it's not even a matter of like locking them in. It's all almost a matter like, I want you paid for that time. Like, you're a professional. You're putting it together. Diagnosis and like, what is the projects needed. You're the highest skilled person in the company and you're spending hours on an estimate that might not get accepted and just complete waste of time. Yeah, like, I want that $300. Like, that's your money. It's not even like baked into the estimate. I'm looking that as like, that's $300.

Yep. Last year we purchased Groundwork so they could all submit videos. I'm like, after two weeks, I met with like 40 people. I'm like, this is absurd. No, stop. Got the groundworks going. And then that put me at like three quotes a week or something. Like, oh, this is great. Half of them I can do online. But $160 a month to receive videos isn't worth it.

Right, Right.

So, yeah, which copilot can accept videos? That would be a great replacement.

We're trying to basically copy a lot of company cam stuff because they do a great job, but they're expensive. Like $30 a user.

I say we have that for holiday lights. Three months. And I canceled them real fast.

Yeah, but they're good for the three months. Yeah, they're good. So, okay, cool. I think we got a good plan.

Yep.

Like, I really do believe you would. Even if today, without changing stuff in the admin, if you just did the admin work, you get done so much faster than even just managing her. And I think right now there's a lot of actual customer service wise, not good things happening because she's only working four or five hours a day.

Yeah. At the time I was still set on, all right, we're doing landscaping like last year. And then. Yeah, at the time of making the video for this, that was the mindset and belief. And then the last two, three weeks, I'm like, okay, I think this isn't.

Gonna work if someone can't watch Copilot University in a matter of two or three days. And it's like taking weeks to kind of like chip away at it.

Yeah. I say 60%, which I did give her like a list. I'm like, I don't want you to watch everything. All the settings are set up, the imports are irrelevant. Yep. So I basically gave her a list, then compare it. But I do know some were missing. She watched all of the import videos. I'm like.

That'S not what you need from an admin person. An admin needs to be so dialed on systems, they need to be like, hey, I think this could be done better if they're not actively making my admin better within the first few weeks and coming up with ideas, just do it yourself.

Yep. That's where I'm at. I'm like, the first few days, you did great. I didn't expect you to work through the entire process, but after that, that's kind of like the highest jump out aspect that's happened all last week.

And then any new initiatives, any new ideas you have, run it by Josiah. Like, hey, does this make sense to you? And be like, that sounds complicated. Don't do it.

Yeah.

That should be like the filter. Right. Because right now I do believe, like everything we talked about, you can Systematize this by 50% within a matter of a few few hours. You can also systematize it to 80%. You can systematize it to 80% but spend weeks figuring it out.

Yeah.

Like dialing all the zapier and the form was gonna sync over here and then it's gonna take the calendar thing and then based upon, you get really in the weeds on it. Wait until you're an architect.

Okay.

Right now we're the manager. Right now we know we need to take admin back.

Yeah.

From a profitability perspective, from a control perspective. And then you're gonna raise prices on the large projects. Have less of them. Cause you're requiring upfront deposit. Like I think that's the move.

Okay.

And then just fight for all get out to try to get Tuesdays and Thursdays or eventually you're back in the field.

Yeah.

At first you're gonna use Tuesday and Thursday to do all this stuff.

Yeah.

But I would say no more than three or four weeks. It should be like Tuesdays and Thursdays are pretty chill.

Yeah.

Because Monday and Wednesday is all admin. I have less leads coming in because.

I require deposit only getting emergency calls, which maybe one a week, probably so rare. Right.

And then the sales one at the end of the day, an hour you're going through. Okay. Is this a mowing customer? Do I send them the calendly thing? You know, is this something that I can have him jog by at the end of the day, put it on his route for tomorrow. He does it in the evening.

Okay. Right. Yeah. So I think that'll help tremendously. Kind of find their rhythm and I guess at what point do I then start to look into growth mode? Is that like after operations have found a really good rhythm? Is that, should that be more financially focused or.

I would say like just to give you a hard line. I'd say 800,000 in revenue. Okay. Like if you can do a year. 800,000, that's okay. Go get a full time admin, probably. Your mom sounds like she's amazing. Put her in place. And then you're going for to 1.2 pretty quickly.

Yeah. Right.

Because then you can like get out of the quote unquote business. But right now we are not out of the business. We are in it.

Yep. Right.

We're there in the morning. We're making sure everyone's supported. We, we're making sure we get the calls. We're doing a lot of the stuff. We're still in the business. Everyone's like, I want to work on my business. That comes down the road. Like when you're an architect, you work on the building. As a manager, you work in the building. Like you put the rocks in place, the bricks in place.

Right.

And so I know it's like, it feels like a step backwards, but I believe if you do it this way you'll actually get to the larger business.

Okay.

Trying to be the bigger business owner. Like do everything. Like our systems and we have an admin person that's remote and all this stuff. You'll never Actually get there because like you'll just keep stalling out at 5, 600,000 all the time.

Yeah, yeah. Say I think it was like 480, then like 512 and then like 540.

And yeah, you're stalling there because you're still trying to operate like an architect.

Where I thought like get someone hired on as part time admin with the ability to go full time. So I'm not jumping the gun. But yeah, yeah. I thought admin hires would be easier than field labors and I was so wrong.

It's so wrong. Way hard. I thought the same thing. Now like I'm a big believer. It's the exact same thing. You're still going to have churn. They still need management, they still need metrics, they still need one on one calls, they still need retraining, quality control, all of that.

Yeah. Right.

And so I think it's a matter of like right now you're focusing on admin is probably your biggest return. Getting back in the field two days a week even now what's going to happen is this. We're going to save $2,500 a month on her wages. Yep. We're going to save half of your admin time. I think over the next month you could cut out half your admin time.

Yeah.

Getting you to be able to work in the field for two days a week. I believe that alone will bring in $5,000 extra revenue to the business.

Yep.

Now we're talking about $7,500 a month that we are different.

And now because I'm doing the high ticket jobs and everything, you're going to.

Raise prices on those too.

Yep.

And you're going to collect $300 per estimate. So let's just say we do 10 estimates a month. That's three grand. Now we're at 10 grand extra a month. Then let's say we're going to raise prices on these projects, let's say by 15 or 20%. Okay. We're literally going to add 15,000amonth in revenue to the business just by doing those things.

Yep. Yeah. Saying them all overheads the same with the exception of admin, which is taking a huge drop in expense.

Yeah. And guess what? That gets you to about 75, 80,000amonth in revenue. And if you do that for a whole year, voila. 800,000.

Yep. And then we've got holiday lights, snow plowing and. Yep. As long as we don't have a warm winter, that adds a pretty penny.

Yep. Yeah. And even like when you have things like Christmas lights, you're going have to train this admin person on that whole gizmo and they have.

That's actually my dad.

Okay, cool.

So I say dude, you have a.

Lot of moving parts here, bro.

I say he's not tech savvy. So I say that's where trying to get it all set up to where he literally just puts in all right. 140ft long and it takes care of it is gonna be my saving grace. And not having to do everything just.

As an idea just because it's the workers comp. Thing about Christmas light scheme up is you might want to create a different.

Llc so that last year I tried that. I wanted to pull my hair out over it. Why? Well one I had a God awful CPA I found out just BS'd me. After a two hour meeting with her to finalize everything, I realized that she was researching the answers to my questions. I'm like what now?

Yeah.

But it was at that point I pretty much have to separate out everything. I can't afford those expenses. As you said, fifteen hundred dollars a month per LLC trying to a for the building development. It's like I can't lose those expenses. And then it's like if I'm going to do it, I'm not going to repeat this a second or third time.

It sounds like your dad's doing it though. Is that what you said?

He's basically 100% admin or I should say phones on it and everything. And then you do. Yep, he does like the initial outlines, the drawings that we send and then I basically input that data into copilot. Got it. And then assist with the install. I'm by far the best on the roofs. I hate ladders, but I'm great on roofs.

I have a feeling that if you do do this with the admin, you might just come into holiday scene like hey, I'll just do it myself. Because there's still a matter of like handoff happening there that you might literally save more time just doing it yourself.

Yeah, so. So that's kind of where torn at is because I did have that realization yesterday. Outside of him having a very lengthy but great sales pitch and being that initial front line for everyone because he loves doing that. I get fed up when I'm on the 500th phone call that's identical. I'm just like, I know where this is going. I want to cut it short, but I can't. So he does all that, which is great, but that Was his idea, the one reason I got started in it. And since he has zero, like, legitimacy and everything else was the reason that I have all of that, particularly the landscaping. That's kind of where I look the other way on me doing 70, him doing 30. Because he's helped in every aspect from day one.

Right, yeah, I get it.

Even what they're like, oh, well. Or they went and bought all the equipment the day of the break in on their card and everything. So I'm like, they're there 200%. So I'm like, I'll let you get your piece of the pie here, even if you're not contributing what you should.

Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. I get it.

So, yeah, I got you. But then I was like, if I'm going to do the LLC split, I want to separate out the snow plowing and everything. And now it's like, all right, well, it's a DBA with three LLCs under three QuickBooks, three accounting charges, bookkeeping, CPA.

It really comes down to the size of business. Does it require?

That's what I concluded. I'm like, in five years, probably. Or if holiday lighting magically clears seven figures in a year or two, then I'll do it. But right now it's not worth it. Right.

No, I get it.

I agree. But I did have questions with. For you about that with like, how to go about separating out and more so I guess calculating the expenses for it because we use the shop. All of my overhead for the business, the vehicles.

If you were to do multiple LLCs.

Well, just like right now with the holiday lighting being small and everything, just like the best approach to track separate. So I can get.

I would only internal. I would only separate it out if it is.

And for.

For Christmas, like, I would just unless you separate. Else I keep it all in the same books. Like, it's like, hey, this is our overhead for the business record keeping.

That's our taxes. Yes. But for our internal sake, being that technically is a partnership with profits, even though we're not considering that for years down the road, with that being his piece, we want to be able to gauge.

Oh, I want to give him a piece of the profits from holiday lighting.

Yeah.

I'd probably give it a cut of commission.

Oh, commission, okay. Versus profit.

Yeah. Otherwise, then you get all sorts of murky around.

That's what I tried. And I'm like, all right, calculate. Wait, hold on. I just paid 20 grand in equipment, insurance, all the software. Software. I'm like, this just got whole Commission.

Or cost per lead, Something like that.

Okay. Yeah, that's a good idea. And then whenever he collects, he can get a piece of the collection. Yeah, I like.

That's the only thing he can. He can actually affect too. He can't affect whether or not the installation went well or anything like that.

Yep. So he's done a couple installs, but being 45, his vertigo is increasing yearly.

Yeah, I get you. I get you.

You.

So, yeah, anything else I can help with before I bounce? I know they'll want to do interviews and we'll probably go out to a job site, get some cool footage and things.

But let me see my question.

Oh, bro. Let's go.

Yep. Hierarchy.

Did you say he overthinks things?

This was sitting here waiting on my haircut Yesterday.

Your hair, 20 minutes. I'm like, it's hilarious.

Yeah. Let's start looking at this.

So, yeah, prioritization. So, yeah, that's pretty much all addressed for. We'll just go P for P because I think that would address my employee motivation, consequences and everything like that.

I would.

Wait, are your thoughts.

I just like, I think almost all of this gets somewhat resolved by just doing the stuff we talked about.

Yeah.

Increasing pricing will help with the weekend warriors. By having you focus more on admin, it's going to be able to. To make the business more profitable, thereby being able to afford pay for performance. It also gives you time this off season for you to figure out P4P. Actually run some of these numbers with Josiah. Say, hey, what would the guys have made if we were using pay for performance? Right. Making sure that, like, based on what I've seen, your mowing routes are really dialed, which means the guys could make really good money on P4P and become way more efficient using it.

Yeah.

And they can make more money.

Right.

And so, but again, I wouldn't even worry about that right now. Right now it's like we have our clear three or four things we need to do. We execute on that this, this season and in the off season, we're not going to keep people on to figure out P4P. This is a two day. We figure it out, we punch the numbers in, we're rocking and rolling.

Okay. Right.

And that's. That's you now because you're admin.

Yeah.

And you figure it out with Josiah. You go through the routes like, hey, what would the guys have made? Who is our top performer? What would they have made? And then when you pitch it to your guys come next spring, it's like, hey, Last year, you would have made an extra, like, four grand if we were using pay for performance.

Okay. Right. Yeah. So I made a bonus system that kind of replicated those key qualities.

And you could even do kind of a hybrid now using efficiency score. Hey, if you average for the week above 75%, you get this flat dollar amount of.

If you can tell ATC about that efficiency score. I've asked countless times for, like, a.

Visit report or a.

Well, I would tell them, like, hey, and my LMN account, I got the sufficiency score.

Oh, that's all through P4P and it syncs with Copilot.

Well, just like, how to do that with the dispatch board. And that's your budget hours divided because. Yeah, basically that's the question I asked ATC like, five times and basically got told it doesn't exist.

Yeah. Because it doesn't actually give the efficiency score. But Unless you're talking about your cockpit. But that's combining everyone's hours versus individual pay for performance. That will give them actually an emailed report every single day of their performance, how much they made on P4P, how much they made on hourly, their efficiency score, any yellow slips and callbacks, they get like, a daily report, which is kind of cool.

Yeah. So I say I print all this off between this and the P4P university. Is that going to basically outline everything I would. Oh, yeah.

You're like. You literally could sync with Copilot and it blows. Brings 90 of the information over, too. Like, it's already. You have it. You're good on your software. Like, you have every. All your budget hours. Everything's dialed, so you literally sync it. They'd clock in and out of P4P and then create time cards.

All that was built with Christian through simple growth based on all of last year's records.

Yeah, no, it's really good. You have your software, like, done well, where you just sync with P4P and pull the information over. And then the guys can see, actually, when they log in the morning, they see all their route and P4P and how much money they can earn. So as they complete jobs live, they see how much money they're making, and it updates how much they're making per hour. So to them, it's like a competition. Like, oh, man, if I can get this one done, I'll make an extra more. And, like, they'll never stop. Like, the last two jobs and like, oh, we're done for the day. They will not do that because they can see that's where they make all their P4P dollars.

Yeah. Those last couple jobs takes an hour. Do the last two verse, 30 minutes. That's the difference of a big bonus pay versus.

So that. That's when P4P they can. They have yellow slips where they can lose all their bonus. So if they have to go back to a job site because they forget the backyard or forget they're going back, guess what? There's no revenue being produced, so they.

Make no money in the bonus system was. Yeah. Trying to replicate yellow slips. Yeah.

And so then what you do, for example, if you're doing a hybrid, like this year, you could do the efficiency score thing, but then that goes away if they have a callback. Okay. If there's one callback your whole week this big. But I'd make it pretty juicy because that's pretty tough to do. 40, 50 lines.

I kind of made something like that.

When I sent it to you.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's like, hey, if you hit efficiency of this at least every single day or for the whole week, however you guys want to do it, and then you don't get a call back, you get this bonus. Yeah.

Okay.

Right. And that's equivalently what P4P does, is like you would make all this extra P4P dollars in bonus, but it's all on the table. If you make a yellow slip.

Yeah.

And if you make a damage case, all that money could be gone.

Okay. So let's say that, like a window does get broken. Is that just for that week or does like a big damage carry over for like a month or something?

I don't carry them over because I don't want them dragging their feet for the rest of the team.

Yeah.

I say it's gonna hit you on one paycheck. So they have $500, and it's a $3,000 repair. I'm just taking the 500 bucks.

Okay.

Right. I don't want them to. To be dragging their feet for the next six weeks knowing they're not going to make any pay for performance, and no one wants to work with them because they're dragging their feet versus everyone's bust and tail.

Yep. Right. Okay. That makes sense. And then when you start getting multiple crews, that's where the competition or gamification kind of comes into play and really.

Because in P2P app, it actually ranks them all, so. And what's cool about that is someone who's new can see like, oh, man. So and so made $28 an hour last week. Let's go I can actually get there. Like, oh, I'm gonna watch what they do.

Yep.

Right? And then you guess what? You never have phone. Someone asks you for a raise.

Yeah. Yeah.

Because if they ask you for a raise, you're like, oh, well, actually, here, let's pull this up. Yeah. You know Josiah, he made X amount last week. Here's why he does this, this, and this. He doesn't stop. He packs a lunch. He's here early to make sure his blades are sharp, and he's out the door in five minutes. Like, you can just tell them, hey, here's how you make more money. Oh, you want to make more money?

Great.

Here's how to do it. Look at these other people making more money instead of what you're doing. Stopping 20 times for a smoke break, 4 times for lunch, 3 hour little.

Siesta, end of day. So they show up and go, all of that stuff. Right.

So, like, since the day I instituted paid for performance at our first shop, not one time I've been asked for a raise. Whereas, like, the month leading up to instituting paper points, I was asked three times knowing I had no money.

Yeah. Other question with that would be being that all of our equipment was repurchased, how would you recommend ensuring. Just care about it?

Because I know if they break it out of negligence, it's out of their bones.

Perfect. So that's perfectly in line with what I had said. But I was curious how you did it.

And if you're doing the hybrid this year, I'd just say, look, it's part of yellow slips or any damaged equipment, you don't get the bonus.

Okay. Right.

So I'd probably say if you're doing the hybrid, I'd probably say, hey, every day needs to be above 60%. Like, keep it a little bit lower, because there's no day where they're just bad weather, etc. Or a bad route, and it's just not their fault. I'd say, hey, you got to be above 60% every single day. If you miss one, you're out. And you gotta have no callbacks and no damaged equipment.

Okay.

That'd be like the basic. Right? Yeah. What's nice about P4P is it gets more specific. So it's like, oh, well, they only damage a $30 piece of equipment that will come off of their $400 bonus. Okay.

Right.

Instead of being like, well, do you lose the whole, you know, $400 bonus because of one little mistake? They drove over a shovel.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's where that's why it was nice about P4P. It's a full system.

Okay, right? Yeah.

What kind of damage?

Yep, one thing.

But negligence.

Yeah, negligence is the only thing.

Right.

And then inside P4P you can also do like project management bonuses. So for example, if you have a higher skilled person, you can give a per budget hour bonus to the project manager. So that way it's like okay, well there's a group of three people, they all did a project and they crushed it. Well really one of them was the one planning the project, talking to the customer. They had the most experience. So you can still give them a project manager bonus inside P4P too. So. But I would wait until that like this is so much more low hanging fruit in my opinion.

I think my other main thing is financials which I figured this would be followed up with my accountant. But kind big picture one now like how to allocate everything one just kind of recovering from where we're at now. But then how determine like you say for profit sharing after X amount the account, everything else is considered profit. How do you calculate that threshold amount and then like allocating percentages towards repairs and damages, overhead, how far to book out that account saving for new equipment, in my case shop development and building. I know the account is going to be best for nitpicking the numbers. But big picture, how should I best go about creating that? I guess split.

Yeah. If you're trying to profit sharing the easiest way I like to do it is do it based on distribution. And so that is like over a certain amount of dollars in the bank is going to be split to profit sharing. So for example, if like hey, I'm going to give 10% to the crew, 10% to management down the road you'd say okay, at the end of Q1 we're going to take the last three months of revenue and average that out. Let's say it was $40,000, $50,000 and $60,000 for January, February, March. Great. The average is 50,000, which means anything above $50,000 in the bank is going to be considered distributable cash. The reason I like using that is because as the business grows that number will go up because you'll need more working capital.

Right.

So now next year it's going to be seventy thousand, eighty thousand and ninety thousand dollars for those three months. And now it's anything above eighty thousand, the average of the past three months that is considered distributable cash. So let's say there's $95,000 in the bank. The average of the past three months has been $80,000 in revenue. That would mean that there's $15,000 of distributable cash. And if you're doing that model, you'd give, hey, $1500, 10% going to the crew, $1500 going to the management for that profit model split.

Okay. So then trying to get to that point now, because I do want to build up, I guess, a nest for trying. Like, I got all the expenses for six months. The.

Oh, what's that?

Then you just change your threshold. So, for example, you could do two times monthly revenue. Anything above that is considered okay. You know, you just change the threshold.

First approach, if you're familiar with that at all. Yep. Yeah, Classics Adam line hours here locally. So I get all of his stuff in our local group.

Yep.

But yeah, as I love his idea of having at least six months of all expenses booked out. So trying to.

The challenging part is this. Six months of worth of expenses for your business right now is over a quarter million dollars of cash. I think if you're trying to do that, you're massively hindering growth. Cause that $2.200,000 could be deployed against more equipment, more trucks. So it's like, if you're optimizing for profit, great. But if you're trying to grow your business, it's gonna take you, realistically five years to put that much cash aside.

Yeah.

At this current size of business.

Yeah.

If you're trying to grow, you need trucks and equipment. You need be advertising.

Right.

So I just take it like I would say, if you're Prof. In profit mode. Yeah. Cool. Six months of expenses. Let's go. Yeah, Obviously I'd like to have five years of expenses. It's just a matter of like, I'm sacrificing growth if I'm just storing cash aside.

Yeah. So then would you say it'd be better, like a percentage to allocate out, like 10% of it all comes down to risk tolerance.

Right. So like, if you were like, hey, I want to really try to grow this business, I'd be like one month of revenue in the bank. Anything above that, I can spend on growing the business. But then if you're like, hey, I'm more conservative. I get freaked out when there's enough money in the bank. Great, let's do two or three or whatever you need to feel like I'm comfortable. And anything above this number I can go spend on growing the business.

Okay, and then what would you Say would be the higher priority in my particular case, developing the shop or trying to get, I guess, more crews and equipment to grow. Say then at a certain point, I need the shop to facilitate all of that.

Yeah. Really the struggle, as you've seen the past year and a half is like real estate is a different business.

Yeah.

And you are now doing two different businesses. You have a real estate business and you have a lawn care business. And so a lot of times people convolute the two by saying, oh, I gotta buy shop space. You spent $80,000 plus the 40,000 for the fence. 120 grand if that. 120 grand. Yes. Let's go burn $1500 a month renting. But if you would have had 120 grand to grow the business, I have a feeling that, like a lot of these issues we wouldn't be talking about. We would have had the admin person, you have hired your mom. You would have grown the business. Right? Yeah. It's all hindsight. Right. So now it's okay, we have two businesses. Let's stop trying to deploy all our cash towards this real estate thing, which. Real estate is great. It's going to grow at 5, 10% a year. Very consistent.

It has forever little put in. But I know that at certain point that's going to cap the other business.

In 10 years, that piece of land will probably be worth if you didn't develop it. Probably worth 500 grand. Probably appreciate by 50%. Right. Great. Everyone's like, that's amazing. Here's the other thing. If over the next 10 years, we do what we talk about and you take your business from 500,000 to 1.5 million, that business is exponentially more valuable than the extra 150 grand of land value.

Yep. Right.

And so I think figure out the business first and then your defensive measure is the real estate play.

Okay.

Right. We kind of got it backwards too early. Like again, your architect brains kicked in. Like, I'm gonna build this shop and buy this land.

I love it. Was the young age having the cash totally fine. And I'm like, all right, I'm in a position. I can buy something. Let's go with it. I did all my. Checked all my ducks beforehand and then I got screwed.

Yeah.

And yeah.

But it's just a matter of like, we were building the business like an architect, when at 500,000 it is. We should be maximizing profit. We should be focusing on getting a small shop space and storage just to be able to get more, get past 800,000.

Yep.

Right.

So that's where I'm at. Or I should say my phase one plan is a 30 by 30. That's enough for true office space. Bring someone in house, garage, work on our equipment when it's raining and everything. But approval is 100 by 30.

Right.

So I figured that's five, 10 years down the road. But graveling the lot so we're not getting stuck and caked in mud every day. Getting the shipping crates and some form of structure, even if it's a 12 by 12 shed, I think is really important.

And you can get that by winter.

Right.

Hey, we can get some gravel for the driveway. We can get some shipping containers to be more storage. You know, more storage.

And after the break in, I'm saying the shipping containers is a much higher priority priority. But I have to bring in gravel for that. If I'm bringing in gravel on the machine, I'm out a thousand plus dollars. So I might as well bring in a little more gravel to.

Yeah, but. Or just working areas. Even if you say a dump truck can come in here and spread the gravel by just driving and then we can kind of touch it up a little bit.

Well, what do you say? Today is the first day in like a month.

Oh, I could tell you weren't getting stuck. Yeah, I could tell.

Yeah, I could tell. So it's like you bring in a semi with. I even know they carry 40 yards at 2200 pounds.

Yeah.

They're not able to spread or anything.

But if we can, if we can bring them in like in August when it's bone dry.

Yeah.

And get it spread at 2, 3 inches thick before winter. That I'd rather have it just like I just want to spend as little as possible of our cash on that.

Yeah.

I want our cash spent on growing the business that will be able to afford the nicer shop, etc. Now it's like let's focus on back on the long term business instead of like the real estate business. Yeah.

It's like getting one shipping crate is my top priority. Just for security. That's the only thing that I know. I'm not going to be like just your fence.

Your fence alone is the equivalent of like two years worth of rent.

Yeah. Yeah.

So that's why it's like if we would have spent the two months of two years of rent, in two years we would have been able to spend 120 grand of cash on growing the business. And in two years we have a million dollar business to go develop the land. Yeah, so it's just a little bit of a, you know, chicken and egg situation. We got. We got the egg already.

Long run. I'm doing good.

Let's go. Focus on the chicken.

Yes. Yes.

So you're gonna make it, dude. You got a great, great team member too.

Yep, absolutely.

We talked a lot. So.

You'Ll find. You'll find two Dalton. Like, when you tackle these, like, main four things, a lot of this stuff.

Will just take care of itself. That's why I'm like, this is kind of bundled bundle, trying to see if there's any, like, big, individual things.

I would say, like, your. If I was you, I'd make. Like, my mantra is, like, progress over perfection.

Okay.

Like, just making progress is more important than perfecting it, because I have a feeling. Because you overthink things, it needs to be perfect versus. Let's just make progress. Like, when I leave here, you're like, okay, so dial in. You're spending. I don't want you to spend a whole week trying to figure out phone call stuff. Right. It's like, will Grasshopper be better than Ringcentral? Ringcentral. Like, there's a thousand options. It doesn't matter. Well, just make progress.

Well, so I'll say that's where I started. But with our GPS system, if that. If I had picked a different company, we would have known that the dump truck was stolen, because it would have worked. And it's like, yeah, every time I just make a decision, I get screwed. And then that just puts me back in the cycle of, let me make sure it's perfect. Is this the right one? Am I gonna have any issues where support ignores me for a month, and then in that month with no working gps, I get all my stuff stolen?

Anything less than perfection, you have a greater amount of risk. So, for example, buying the truck that was used and for 10 grand, that's a risk.

Yep.

Perfection would have been buying the same dump truck for 80 grand, brand new. So you already have a risk.

Yeah. Right.

And so, yes, if I don't put a dash cam, a GPS track, yes, you're increasing your risk. But if we don't. If we just constantly look for perfection, we'd still be trying to afford our first truck. Yeah. So there's a certain level of risk you're gonna have to take.

I did buy a truck brand new already, but that's because I was 17, living at home, zero expenses, and. Yeah.

How old are you now?

23, dude.

Good for you, man.

Yeah, that got paid off a week before my 21st birthday.

Oh man. By focusing on the core competencies of the simple services and then also increasing his prices on the large, complex projects, I believe Dalton's Lawn Care has a bright future ahead. Now, if you want to have the same sort of in depth coaching and having a custom plan for your business to be able to take it to the next level, I encourage you to apply and go to blue collarsummit.com bring your spouse, bring your manager and your key employees to this three day event. Get together with a whole bunch of entrepreneurs in the home service industries that are just crushing it and they also want to build a million dollar business that can run without them on systems and procedures. If that's of interest, go to blue collarsummit.com I look forward to seeing you there.