1994 New York Rangers Backstories Hartman-Keenan-Kypreos-Healy-Gilbert

Welcome to the Mike Hartman Show. Mike is a performance coach and former Stanley cup champion with the New York Rangers. Topics on this show are focused around stories, mindset and champions. Mike will also go into details about helping you with your pain points and struggles and finding motivational solutions on how to have the mindset of a champion. Now, here's your host, Mike Hartman. Welcome to another episode. Today we're going to reverse things a little bit as I have Orlando with us. Real name is Brian Orlando, but Orlando is a radio personality in New York outside of New York City. Orlando, I'm going to turn it over to you because this episode is going to be really you. You're, you're, you're, you've been an expert, you've been doing this a long time, and people will get the gist of what we're doing in a minute. But, or Orlando, it's great to have you today.

Appreciate it, man. I appreciate the opportunity to do this, you know, not just as a hockey fan, but a fan of podcasts and a fan of you in general. It's kind of interesting, the concept that you have in mind today.

Well, it's different. And there's no other person I'd rather do this with than you. I mean, you interviewed me 10 years ago. You interviewed me when I was with the New York Rangers before events. You've done a lot of big events in New York City. So you know what? Hey, it's in your hands. You take control.

Well, it's interesting because the first thing that we saw was that probably one of the biggest leaders that ever graced the presence of the Rangers, Henrik Lundquist, just got his contract bought out in his final year. And it's interesting that when you have somebody that had read the team for so long and that veteran presence not there, what does that do? Does that create a vacuum? I mean, you've seen so. And you've played with so many great veterans. When you see veterans vacate their spot, leave a team, what does that do for a guy like you, who might have been a little bit quieter, but does have a leadership presence? Like, who steps up? And how do you step up in the absence of somebody like a Henrik Lundquist?

Orlando, let's be real. Hey, I was a fourth liner, but I will. I'll answer that question to the best I can. So we had a player when I was with the Buffalo Sabres named Mike Foligno. Mike Foligno was a hero of mine when I was a kid. He played for the Detroit Red Wings, my local team, and Then he ended up going to to Buffalo. But he was a hero of mine. When he went through the gate for warm ups, he went with authority. I mean he, he was out there playing hard. And I ended up rooming with Mike Foligno. So Mike Foligno, I get to Buffalo years later, he's our captain. First thing he does is what invites me over for Thanksgiving. I said, wow, man, my. I'm 19 years old and Mike Foligno's let bringing me to his house to have Thanksgiving. Mike Foligno would sit down with me and say, hey, you're a kid here. I want you to never to get too high, never get too low. We me. And then as years went on, I got to play on his line in training camp with, with Dale Howard, Chuck who passed away and what a great man he was another leader. But I ended up playing with with Mike Foligno on his line. Then he gets traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs and that broke my heart he had. He wore the C. So when he left, his presence was gone. But I've learned in professional sports, as fast as things get good, they can get bad just as quick. And they always find somebody to replace that leader. Now can you replace a Lundqvist? Can you replace a Messier? I don't know. Not, not to that degree. But you have to adapt. You have to get used to it and you do have to find a way to move on if you're a team.

You know, you and I decided to do this based upon show that you did with former 1994 alumni and your former head coach. And Mike Keenan was there. And the one thing that stood out to me is he had said, you know, Mike, you were a natural leader. Now you just mentioned that you were a fourth liner and a fourth liner on a team of legends. I mean when you look at who was on that 94 Rangers team. So what do you think A, what do you think Mike's star in you as a leader then to say you're a natural leader?

Well, I'll clear the air. I'll clear the air when he said that. So first of all, that was an all star team. We didn't have a salary cap back then. If you look at our team, some people would say, oh, the New York Rangers bought a Stanley Cup. Anybody has a chance to get any player you want back then. But you look at the players. Eddie Oldchuck's a 40 goal scorer, almost 50 goals one year and he's not dressing. We have guys like Phil Bourque when two Stanley Cups. Stand up. Trading him. Dougie Litzler was the captain of the Vancouver Canucks. He's not even dressed until the final last couple games. And what happens is you just have to accept your role. So when, at the end of the year when Mike Keenan brought me in and he said, you know, listen, here's the thing. We don't know if you're going to play in the playoffs right now we have a stacked house. If somebody gets hurt, you just have to be ready. So people don't understand Mike Keenan. People see the nasty side of him when he was coaching. But I've gotten to know him even better now that I've been out of the game. And he's a gentleman. I respect him. And I thank them on the show and you'll hear it. I thank them for keeping me. And Glenn Healey says, I. I'm not going to say the name. I don't bring in politics. You could be somebody's press secretary. And I said, no, I liked my Keynes. So what he meant by a leader maybe leading in a way where I didn't get negative, I try to keep as positive as can. Listen, there was days that I break my stick and get mad. Yes. But overall, I had to get ready to play. And that's something that I teach today. I had to have the mindse to be ready. And if you really want to look way back, my dream was to play one game in the big leagues, the National Hockey League, and just to be part of that team and play 35 games. Yes, I did. Almost lost my eye and I had a really bad injury and I missed like, I think 15 or 20 games to injury. But yeah, I'm not one of those guys in a bar that says, oh, yeah, hey, I got hurt and I could have played. Now, I was a career 4th, 5th line towards the end there, but just happy to be a part of it. I have a championship ring today and I want to thank, yes, thank Mike Keenan and thank you for saying those nice things. What he meant, I'm guessing that's what he meant.

Here's a humorous clip of Nick Kyprios and Glenn Healy in response to coach Mike Keenan telling Mike Hartman that he had excellent leadership skills. And Mike's teammates reflecting on what their opinion was of what really happened in 1994. You can't get more bull coming out of your mouth in one sentence in that four minutes you weren't going to play.

We told you every day when we.

Sat down after dinner and you, you just didn't listen. To us and Kip and I told you every day. Now, Mike, here's the thing. Obviously, everybody's gonna have a different opinion of what went on back then, and it has been over 25 years. But it's clear, as you brought up some stories of what you went through in 94, that Glenn Healy saw that you aren't being treated like a leader. Or does a leader make himself by taking what you took, which was not or didn't seem pleasant?

Yeah, well, Glenn's a funny guy. Glenn, he never held back. Even I had him on a podcast, and. And we had him on our show. And I've known, obviously Glenn for a long time. He's a. He's a friend. He's a good friend. And. And he says it how it is. And I. And I do say it how it is, but I'm a little bit more reserved. And you know what Glenn was basically saying, yeah, you were treated not very good, but that was Mike's way of motivating you. Like, he mentioned something, you know, about Adam Graves. He. Adam Graves jerseys in Madison Square Garden. And it's. I mean, come on, he's got his name up in the. Up in the rafters there. He's got his jersey, was raised in the stadium, and Mike was tough on him, and Mike doesn't take it easy on. On people, so he. He demands a lot, and obviously it worked.

Here's Mike's teammate, Glenn Healey, on how Mike Keenan's coaching style motivated different players in different ways. So, I mean, from a player standpoint, we all want to be pushed to our limits. All of us have different limits. What is Nick's limit is different than mine? You know, Scottish guy with a very short fuse.

My limit, Very, very short.

And probably let Mike know right away. And there was other guys, you could push him right to the very end of the face of the earth. And, you know, pushing guys to their limits only makes the team better. Now, Mike, as you were sitting there, again as a fourth liner and realized that if a man like Adam Graves can be treated like that by Mike Keenan, did that scare you in a way, or did that motivate you to try harder?

You know, back in those days, your mindset is in a different place. So I was thinking, you know, for me, I just wanted to get through the year. My daughter was just born. She was born that year. I was put on waivers actually, during the year, and they had the recallable waivers back then. So I was picked up by the Philadelphia Flyers, and thank goodness that there was Recallable waivers because the Rangers said we're not letting them go to Philadelphia. And so for me to be a part of it, to. To hang on, to do whatever I can to be part of that team, to work hard, if I played one shift, I had to be the best one shift player. But back then, you want to all the time. You're not thinking how I'm talking today. It took me years to get to this point where I am today. Hey, yeah, it was a dream to play there. But no, when you're putting on that uniform every night, you're walking to Madison Square Garden, you don't want your teammates to get hurt. You don't want anything to happen. Like, Nick Kyprios and I were best friends in junior, and we were fighting for a spot. We're competitive on the ice after we go for lunch, but you're. You're competitive, you're doing whatever you can to get into the lineup. And whether if you're playing against the Florida Panthers the night before or you're playing against Chicago, you better play well. Because one mistake, that's where the pressure is. One mistake with Mike and you're a fourth liner. Oh, you're done, you're done. You're not going to play the next night. So it was almost that. That was the pressure, not what was said to anybody. Because I didn't care about words. I care more about, boy, if I'm in the lineup, I better stay here. And then you add that extra pressure on yourself, and sometimes that could be unhealthy. But that, that's. That. That. That was a. Press me back.

I want to take a quick listen to a clip of you talking to Mike Keenan about the very early days of your relationship.

You know, some people dislike their boss, and this is in corporate America. Mike Keenan looked at each player like he had messier, all the way down to the support players, and he had to do whatever he could with each individual to maximize their potential. Some people wouldn't agree with the way things were done, but so there was the. Hate's not even in the vocabulary. So wherever you're hearing is not true, but it's getting the best out of that player. And if you mentally can't take it, you're not gonna last. With Mike Keenan, if you're a soft guy, if he hurts your feelings, you should go do something else. But he was. He would do the littlest things to get a lot out of you, even if you. No matter what type of player you were. So I would eliminate that word Hate, because that's not true.

Now Mike, you were brought in from Buffalo. Now you said, you know, you were a career fourth liner. But I do remember in Buffalo there was a little bit more star power to you because let's face it, the Buffalo Sabres didn't have the team that the New York Rangers did. As somebody that Mike Keenan himself called a natural born leader, were you in any way frustrated going to the Rangers where there was so many people to overshadow everybody on the team?

Well, I knew going in. So what happened was I played my years in Buffalo, get traded to Winnipeg in a big huge deal that was like almost like a six player deal back then. I go to Winnipeg, I don't sign a contract with Winnipeg. So I'm. You're a free agent without compensation Back then because of my age and I got picked up by Tampa. Then Tampa unloaded people at the end of the year and I get to the Rangers. Well, I knew Neil Smith and he was honest. He says, hey Mike, we're bringing you here because we're bringing you in for you're an insurance policy. Do you want to hear that? Absolutely not. I don't want to be an insurance policy for anybody. But that's the role. You're accepted. They brought Eddie Oldchuck in. Eddie, you're coming here, you're going to have a very limited role. Do you accept it? You have to. I mean, this is our job. I mean sometimes do we want to be playing a lot? Sure, but you have to accept that role. So I knew going to the Rangers that I was going to have a limited role now. But the downside is your value goes down as a player and then so even though you're playing on a Stanley cup team, that doesn't mean you're going to get picked up the next year. But they had a role for me. You accept that role and when you get that chance to play, you better be on.

Now we listen to you guys talk about, you know, from an insider standpoint, what isn't so controversial anymore. But at the time, the Mike Gardner trade in the middle of the season was a white hot controversy in sports radio. So here you are being brought in and you're watching guys that had been with the Rangers and considered royalty being pushed out. What does that do to a locker room full of leaders?

Well, don't forget James Patrick who was there for, for a long time as well, and Mike Gartner. But what happens is you just have to go with whatever hand is dealt when it comes to professional sports you may not agree with it, but it's not for me to agree. I had a responsibility is to play left wing and right wing for the New York Rangers, and I had to outwork the person across from me. Mike Gartner was a gentleman. He has done a lot for. For a lot of us. He personally, without getting into it on this show, has done a lot, but you just have to move on. And then things happen. Injuries happen. Look, look at this year. Tampa Bay lost their captain, so they end up winning. The Stanley Companies happy. You have to deal with. They call it adversity in sports. I call it setbacks. So you have to deal with that. And how you respond to it is how you win championships. And go look at the New York Rangers, how many guys on the Edmonton Oilers and forget about just that Greg Gilbert that have won Stanley Cups. We had a lot of guys that have been there before, so they knew what it took. You feed off of them. You learn from former champions and you give it your best shot.

You became a life coach. You've helped so many people. You've helped me. You've guided me through things just with answers that I didn't think were clear enough. And it just took a different perspective, the mindset of a champion. And the next thing I knew, I started better. Now, when you were talking to Mikey on this show and he was talking about your leadership skills and there was some questionable methods that were brought up, did anything click years later, did anything click when you were talking to Mike Keenan here, did anything finally made sense two and a half decades later?

Well, I've been talking to Mike this past three years. We had our 25th reunion and I went up and he gave me a hug and, you know, I spent time talking to Mike. So I've really gotten to know him better. Because when he's your boss and you're working for him, he's. He's lucky to say hello to you. And that's just the way it was. That was his personality. He never wanted you to feel comfortable. And that's the. That was his coaching style. That's the old school, but that's what it was then. So when he says that, you know, I go to bed, I have a little Stanley cup in my house. I have. I'm around former teammates. Stepan Mato is like a. Like a brother to me. Adam Graves is like a brother to me. We spent a lot of time the last three years in New York City thanks to Adam. He's opened many doors for the New York Rangers for Me, I've known Adam for so many years. That's friendship and relationships. And. And now what happened is I get off the. The interview with. With Mike Keenan. I go home when I was in New York and I actually went to a game and sat right next to Mike, and we have a relationship, and I say, life is built on relationships. Am I going to dwell on the time where he got mad at me and he treated me not so well to be nice on the show? No. I look back and I say, you know what, boy? All these years later, I care about. I care about him. He's a. He's a nice man. I think he's a gentleman now. And people. There are people in life that may be negative towards that. There are people in life that say, really, the way he treated you nights where you thought you were gonna dress and you weren't, that was business. That was a game. So today, when I hang up with Mike, it's like, it's good to hear your voice. It's good to. It's good to talk to him, and really, it's enjoyable. So that's the truth.

There were talks during that podcast that you had gone home to see your daughter be born. There were talks during that podcast that you weren't playing the night your daughter was born. Your teammates had told you to go home, and that caused a whole bunch of problems between you and Mike Keane. And looking back, can you reflect upon what happened, what your feelings were, and whether or not it was the right move?

Well, it was a story. We were out in Anaheim playing the Ducks, right? So we go out to there to play, and there was complications. We were told that my daughter could be born premature. So Messier and some of the guys said, maybe it's better that you go home. Well, I talked to Mike. He says you can't leave. Long story short, I left, and they got me a plane ticket home. We had our own plane out there, and I got there just in time for my daughter to be born. So I'll never regret it, and I'll never look back on that. But when I got to the team, came back. We lost in Anaheim. I was supposed to play that night. I made a decision. This isn't men's league where, oh, you're going to miss a game. You don't miss games in the. In the NHL. Doesn't work like that. But I made a decision. I stuck with that decision. The players were behind me. Monday, I get to the rink, and it was a really bad situation. He got mad at me. Told me to, you know, sit down. I took my stick and I broke it. And for the first time in my life, I showed anger in professional sports at a, at a practice and I was out of character. I had emotions going on. There was a lot going on. He told me to stay home and not go to the game that night against the Islanders. He calls me at 5 o', clock, says, get down here, you're playing. You know what it's like driving from Bronxville to New York City in traffic. I rushed my equipment on, not getting stretched. Usually we get to the stadium at 4:30, 5 o'. Clock. I'm not getting there until 6:15, just get on the ice for warm ups and played every other shift. In the beginning, he played me a lot. It was like I couldn't even believe it. Most I ever played, we ended up losing to the Islanders and I sat three games and that's when I went on waivers. And is it a way that I would have done it? No. But I'm not, I'm not a coach of the National Hockey League. Back then today would have been, you know, different story. But that was old school. That's what happened. It was tough. And then finally I talked to Mike Keenan and it ended up working out. I'm sure you can hear that when, when we discussed it. But yeah, you know, things happen in sports and do. I would. I've done things different. Yeah, I probably would. I'd like to, I'd like to be more of a players coach but never won a Stanley cup as a coach. So who am I to say, you.

Know, I'm impressed that you were able to make it to the Coliseum from Bronxville by 6:15. As a native Long Islander, I can tell anybody listening how next to impossible that is. And Georgie, Mike's determination to keep his job.

It was raining and it was, it was bad weather and it was, it was just beginning of. It was January. My daughter was born January 29th. So it was like just, you know, right there at the end of January and I was going against traffic, but there's no such thing as against traffic. And I did it. I parked my car in the team lot right across from the Garden and I gave the keys to the, to the guy that works in there and I said, just help me out after the game. And I ran and I'm sweating and all the players are just about putting their shoulder pads on and I'm flying and putting my equipment on and I couldn't even go to the bathroom not to get too into Too many details. How did you can't even prepare for a game. And I teach people. You talked about coaching. I teach people to prepare a night before you get, you have to, even day of a game, you have to be ready. I didn't even have a pregame meal. I wasn't supposed to play. So I ended up playing. It ended up not working out. We lost. But man. Yeah, looking back at like that, I said, how did I do that?

Here's Mike Keenan talking about his philosophy on what a teammate's responsibility is to his team, his family, and where it balances out. In Mike Keenan's head, you have a responsibility, first of all to yourself, your family, but you have a big responsibility to the guy wearing the same uniform as you. Because if you don't do your job, then somebody else has got to do it for you. If you do your job, then they could probably do their job better. So that would be applicable to every championship team, whether it's a Pee Wee championship or winning the Standard cup in New York or the Canada Cups. Perhaps you needed that type of commitment and feeling, human connection to have that kind of success, you know. As the 1994 Rangers continue to be one of the proudest moments in the history of New York sports, it is full of leaders and Mike Hartman is the one to become the coach and the one to help me personally. But besides Mike Keenan, who we discussed quite a bit on this show, I want to play a quick game with you where I mentioned someone and you tell me what you learned from them that you incorporated into your coaching techniques. And the first we'll start with is Brian Leach.

Brian Leach was a quiet leader. He didn't say much, but when he said something, it meant a lot. He went out there and he played consistent every night. So I would teach consistency, I would teach, listen. He listens very well. He communicates really well and he's a fantastic guy. So I would be bringing that into my, my coaching business that, that I, that I had at one time. But absolutely, that's how you communicate is very important. That's a big part of leadership.

You know, there are a lot of tough players on the Rangers. I mean, I always joke that you're not a guy that I don't ever want to mess with. But you also play with Joey Kosar. What did you learn from him, a hard nosed guy like him?

Well, I fought him, I, I, let's say I held on to him, I, I dropped my gloves with him and he punches like he has a brick in his hand. But he's the most gentle person, you know, He's. One day, I could tell you a funny Joey Kosher story If we have 30 seconds. It's Joey Kosher. We were playing against Tampa, and Grattan, who was the. The first overall pick, 18 years old, went by the bench and he just hit Kevin low and knocked him on the ground. And everybody's standing up. And I stood up, I said, okay, yeah, we'll get you next shift. Yeah, okay. Okay, Hardy, come on, let's come out here. Joey Coaster stands up and says, okay, kid, I'm coming next. And he goes. Grattan said, not you, Joey. Like, it's called respect. Not you, Joey. I said, holy cow. I couldn't imagine that. Respect. He looked at everyone. Okay, Hardy. And then Nick Hiprio stood up, and a of us are yelling, okay, come on out here. And good Grattan. 6, 5. Joey Kosher stands up. No, no. He goes, no, no, not you, Joey. I've never heard that in my life. So I had to throw that in there.

We'll do a couple more of these because, you know, even if we run a bit on time, they're so interesting. Mike is also a gentle guy, and even if you wouldn't know it if you saw him and his fights on the ice, but he's one of the most genuine people that I know. And I've seen guys like Adam Graves give so much time to charity, and every time I've asked you for something, you've never said no. And I wonder if you learned any of that or saw Adam Graves give so much to charity and if any of that rubbed off on you.

Well, Adam's amazing. He's one of the. He is one of the best people I've ever met in my life, next to Stephon Matteo, if you known him. And Stephon will, you know, will do anything for you. And they always make sure they include you in things. I remember we had an event in. In the. In we. I did a lot with the Rangers on the 25th, but one of the events they didn't tell me to come to, and they. Those two guys made sure that I was there. And you get taken care of by the team, so they look after you. And that's something you could learn in life. And I could always tell people always do something, as if your mentors or somebody you look up is watching you. And I would even say to myself, you know, what, if I'm going to be around somebody and I'm going to do something, Imagine a guy like Adam Graves is watching you.

You know, Stephan Matteau was probably one of the most humble guys that I've ever interviewed, and quiet, but answers any question without fear. And you're very similar in that. So do you remember anything in particular that you learned from Stefan Matteo?

I don't know if I. I mean, we're. We're good friends. I mean, I learned from everybody, not just professional athletes. You know, I learned from you. I mean, we. I've learned from what you've done on the air. You have experience. I. I learned you. If you feel you're not coachable or you feel you can't learn from every. Anybody, I think that's a problem. So I consider myself coachable, and I can always learn from. From different people. I'll tell you this quick thing, and we will wrap it up. I was with my son the other day, and I was really busy, and it's so great to be with him here in Charlotte, sitting down, and the phone kept ringing, and I was answering it, and we like to have tea. We do this tea thing where he gets tea in from other countries, and we make sure it's good tea, and we talk. But that day, I had to be on a call, and I told him. So he called me, and I'm the dad. He said, you know, it should have been me that says, hey, you know, dad, next time I'd rather just spend time with you and not be distracted because our tea time is the time we need to spend together and talk. And I. I thought about that. I mean, so here I am. It's my son, and I even learned from my son so we could learn from everybo. And that's how I believe.

Well, Mike, I learned a lot just by listening to this. I obviously learn a lot from talking to you quite a bit, and I'm lucky to do that. But to hear you go and to hear you dissect leadership qualities that you've learned from your leaders is fascinating to me, and I hope this is a tool that others can use. But like you said, you learned from me, which I'm honored to hear. But maybe that's a lesson we should all learn, is that everybody out there can teach you something. And here's an example of Mike Hartman telling a story about how every component of a machine, every component of a team is important. And, Mike, there's a story you told about J. Wells that I want to play a clip of, because when you were doing this podcast, this was a moment that really stuck out, because J. Wells wasn't A prominent member of that team.

I room with Jay Wells in Buffalo, and he was sitting out. So to answer, if you would have said anybody else, I wouldn't be commenting. So to watch him play a full year and do whatever he can and do whatever. Anything he can to help the team. I remember one night in Buffalo that if you want to talk about A J Wells, what he did, this is the, like, the little, you know, tangible things that, That I. That I see is we were playing against the Buffalo Sabres, and Brad May took a run at somebody, and Jay fought him, and he just cut Jay's face wide open, punched him, and he was bleeding everywhere. And Joey Kosar stood up and says, nobody do anything. I'm going to get him. And J. Well, says, don't do a word. He couldn't even talk. He gets out there the next shift. He was told, I don't know, by the coaches or anybody. Don't. You're already split up. He might have had 20 stitches in his face. He drops his gloves and gets split open again. So you want to talk about the character of Jay Wells when you say you want to see him raise a cup after sitting out in Buffalo, and then when he's fighting Brad May and doing that for the team, you feel that much better about a guy like that. So that's. That's how I look at when you mentioned Jay. That's one guy that. That story sticks out, and that's true, and I think we'll leave it at that. So we could always learn, and we could always learn from people and people, don't be stubborn. Let's learn from. From everybody. We could learn from mistakes that we've even made. And Stefan even talked about that. If you read the New York Times, he had a. His hand for help at the end of his. At the end of his career. I want to. I don't want to get into that, but that's, you know, and that's. That says a lot. That's courage and that's pride, and those are things that. That you do to always get better. And if you can get 1% better. I heard that the other day, if you can get 1% better, every day in your life, you're doing something good. So even if maybe you might be a little bit lazy, you might be tired, you might be on a, you know, a nutrition program, you might do something in your business, but if you can get better, I call it the little things in details. But this per. I can't take credit for it says, you know, what I like to see somebody get better 1% every day. And I learned from him who's another coach, and I took that with me. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Mike Hartman Show. If you're enjoying what you've heard so far, please feel free to rate, subscribe and leave a review on your preferred podcast listening platform. We really appreciate that effort. We'll catch you in the next episode of the Mike Hartman Show.

Sam.