Brenley Shapiro-NHL/Olympic Mental Performance

Mike Hartman, Performance Mindset Strategist this is Develop the Mindset of a Champion with former Stanley cup champion Mike Hartman. Hello and welcome to another episode. Today. Our featured guest is Brenlee Shapiro. Brinley is a Toronto based sports psychology performance and consultant, behavioral psychotherapist, sports vision trainer, performance coach for the Arizona Coyotes and the National Hockey League, the men's and women's Chinese Olympic teams. Brenley is also a keynote speaker and author. Brendle, it's so great to have you here today.

Thanks Mike. It's nice to be here with you today.

It really is. You have a lot of great accolades next to your name. Our listeners, we talk a lot about students stories. As you know, I believe in telling stories through what we're doing here with everybody's doing. And our listeners are really looking forward to learning more about your story.

So my story, I'm going to take you back a lot of years. I'm not going to tell you exactly how many because it's going to date me, but when I think back to it now and how I ended up doing what I do, I really do go back to memory. And it's really a moment in first grade for me, which is a long time ago. But I remember it being the very first day of school and I was all excited to go to school and a little bit nervous too. And I settled in and I made my very first friend and it's really like my first distinct memory. And I remember the teacher going around the room and everybody got to do introductions and she asked the big question, you know, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I knew right away I didn't even have to think. And I was super excited and I was waiting for my turn and I was so anxious for it. And when it got to my turn, I stood up really proudly and.

I.

Was a lover of the game of hockey. And my room had been wall to wall hockey pictures. And I stood up and I proudly said that I wanted to be in the NHL. And my excitement quickly turned to embarrassment in a moment when the entire room burst out laughing at me and, and they all started joking and laughing and they're like, you can't be in the NHL, you're a girl. But you know, maybe I didn't realize it at the time, but it was really a defining moment for me because I thought to myself, like after, you know, why can you tell me what I can or cannot do? And really it was from that moment that I just thought like, I can really Be or become anything that I want to do. And, you know, fast forward a lot of years, maybe, maybe I wasn't going to play in the NHL, but at the end of the day, I'm in the NHL and I actually have a profound impact on the players that do get drafted for our team in the NHL. So I'm kind of exactly where I want to be. And I just had to figure out a different way to get there. And so, you know, I always say that if I can do it, so can you. Like, I just. I think people are capable of doing so much more than they think they can. And I really just believe it's sort of their mindset that holds them back and stops them from really crushing huge goals and doing great things. And, you know, I'll take you a little further, too. It became. I ended up in psychology, and I was a cognitive behavioral psychotherapist and really started in general counseling practice. And then it was through my own experience with my own children as they entered the wonderful world of youth sport. And, you know, Mike, I start to see some crazy things happening, like people turn into all kinds of characters. You know, I don't care who you are or what walk of life you come from, when we enter into the sports arena, all kinds of things happen. And so it got me thinking, you know, how can I support my own children? Because I love sport. It's a passion of mine. And, you know, I'm a people helper. So how do I help my own children be great and thrive in the environment of youth sport and competitive youth sport? And there is. There's so much pressure and expectations and it's just getting younger and younger the age. And so I really wanted to help my children kind of grow up with that mindset of you can do and become anything that you want. And so how do I help them thrive in that environment? And then that grew into, you know, how do I help other people thrive in the environment? And just how do I help people be and become the best that they can be? And that's sort of what, you know, kicked it all off. And I left my general counseling practice and took a leap of faith and I actually opened up an office in a hockey rink and, you know, thinking, what did I just do? But it's really taken off and, you know, it's about following a passion and a dream. And like I say, you're. You're really capable of doing so much more than you think you can. So that's kind of my story.

Yeah, but that's Great. But you also danced. I know you lived in Winnipeg, Manitoba. I lived in the very cold Winnipeg, Manitoba. So dancing was a one of your passions. So you dance and you enjoyed that. So you had that competitive spirit, dancing as well.

Yeah, I did. I did. I also, when I was younger, you know, I wanted to play hockey. And really there was no opportunity for me as a girl to play. And so I did play soccer. That was, that was my thing. And I played competitive soccer. I actually played in the Canadian nationals one year. That's sort of my big claim to fame. That's about it. It starts and ends there. But I did soccer and I did dance. So, you know, I just always had a love and a passion for sport, competition, and all the amazing things that you can get and how you can grow through it.

So you've experienced the good, the setbacks. So you must have had some setbacks as an athlete or even in your profession.

Yeah, absolutely. Setbacks are a part of life. And I think, unfortunately, we fear setbacks. Failure has kind of become this terrible word in our society and I really just embraced it. Like, embrace the setbacks, embrace the failure. Because the truth is that's where you grow, like through anything. And because every person. And if you're gonna try and do something great, it's meant to be hard. It's not supposed to be easy. You know, if you're a competitive athlete, like, it's hard, it's hard work. And so people kind of think or want success to be this straight line to success, and it just doesn't look like that at all. Success is a messy road and failure and setbacks are just a part of the process in terms of growing towards success. So you got to embrace it. I think you learn and you grow there. Success is nice and winning is nice and talent is nice. But the truth is we don't get better there. Like, you know, at some point talent runs out. And again, like I say, when you're trying to do something great, you have to be prepared to be great. And you're going to take some hits along the way. So the more that you can embrace them and sort of find the lesson in there is really how you break barriers and you grow into something unique and special.

I think everybody should know, no matter what they do in life, like all the guests that we have, every one of them, they just didn't become stars. So all of my guests had major trans transformational adjustments in their life. They did not start out great. They just didn't say, oh, I'm going To put my skates on or I'm going to be a baseball player and start out great. You know, they started with adversity and struggles and setbacks. And I remember back in the day, just a baseball story. There was a friend of mine in Buffalo and I met him through my former spouse and my friend played baseball and he played minor league baseball. And he struggled, he struggled as a player. He was almost done with baseball. He ended up playing triple A as a third baseman. And then one day he was warming up in the bullpen throwing 100 mile an hour plus fastballs and it caught the attention of everybody. Fast forward the clock. His name is Trevor Hoffman. Trevor is an all star hall of Famer. And he told me, I said, trevor, how did you become this player? He says, it was an accident. First of all, my arm was saved all those years.

Right, right.

It wasn't an accident. I worked hard. And he said something, a major league ball player, he said this. He goes, mike, I slept with my glove every night until I was going to play in the big leagues, even as a third baseman. So we had that. So, yeah. So why, let me ask you this. So why is working on the mental game so important in sports?

You know, I think it comes back to that story you just told. Like, think about that. What a great story. And I see stories like that all the time in any sport. Doesn't matter like what sport we're talking about. There are countless stories like that of people that don't get the opportunity that, you know, go through. And they're not recognized and they're not noticed, but they don't give up. Like, they have that mindset and sense of mental toughness to keep pursuing their dreams. Like, I love that he's sleeping with his baseball glove and nothing was happening for him, but he believed in himself, he was confident. Like, those are, that's all the mental game aspects of it. It's very easy when you're not getting recognized or noticed to say, you know what? Like, I can't do this anymore. Nobody thinks I'm good enough. I'm not going to get there. And that's why I say the mind quits on you before anything else. Because if you believe you can't do it, then you can't do it. You'll never do it. And I'm going to give you my success equation. I said it at the start and I really believe it. Like, talent for me is highly overrated. Now don't get me wrong, I know that you need some talent to do the things that you do and you know, the different sports, like they're hard. I can say to get to the NHL is hard. It's not an easy thing to do to get to the major leagues. It's not easy. And your talent though will only take you so far. It's really mindset, mental toughness, the whole mental game component that I think allows you to push past the barriers because it is going to be hard. And you know, I'll give you my success equation in any sport and really for anybody in anything you do, I give 30% to talent because it's something, it's nice to have it, you know, God given talent, beautiful thing. But, but the truth is it's only going to get you about 30% towards your long term goals. I give mindset and mental toughness 60% and then I give luck 10%. Like you know, sometimes it's a lucky door open or a lucky break or a lucky bounce, but I actually claw back some of that luck and I throw it back onto the mentally tough people. Why not? Because mentally tough people are any luckier. They just hang in longer. Like they're able to tolerate the discomfort, the setbacks, the failures, the not getting noticed. So like your buddy, you know, he was just ready when that moment happened. If we hang in long enough and we keep banging down door after door after door and we stay with it, eventually one's going to open. But we just have to have the persistence and the ability to keep doing it. So that's why it's so much about the mental game, like so much.

A coach once said this to me and it's, you know, the old cliches, but tough times don't last, tough people do. But so in my early days as an athlete I really struggled with what the coach, yeah. Thought of me. What was her, what was his perception of me as a player? Yeah, I wish I worked with you 20 plus years ago because I needed that it mentally it threw me off. So if I in the NHL and I'd walk by, I would say good morning to the coach and the, the coach didn't say anything. It really set me off. So what are some of the pain points with the mental game that athletes struggle with?

Well, I think very similar to what you say and I'll summarize it, what you're talking about is sort of fear of what the coach is thinking. And what's that going to do? Well, that's going to take your focus completely away from where it needs to be to be successful. Right Now I'm caught up in what the coach is thinking. I would bet, Mike, you never figured out what the coach was exactly thinking. Right?

Never.

Right. And so it just. You were stuck in your own head. And I really always say that the mind leads the body. Like, everything starts up here. So when you're worried about the coach, now you've got all this noise in your head and you're focused on that, you know, what's the coach thinking then? If you do something, oh, did he like that? Did he not like that? Is he going to bench me? Am I going to get to play? Am I going to get cut? Like, what? So you got all this noise in your head. How much focus do you actually have left for what you need to do and to play your game? Like there's not much left. So what you're talking about is related to the coach. I see just confidence issues, fear of failure, fear of what other people think, emotional control and composure. But the underlying theme for me is fear, really, like, fear is the biggest barrier to success. Whether it's fear of what the coach is thinking, fear what the fans are thinking, fear of my parents, fear of making mistakes, all of that stuff. So fear for me is that underlying theme that is the biggest barrier to success.

That's so true. I mean, I was afraid to make a mistake. I was nervous going in, and I knew that if I'm going in and I'm afraid, that's going to take all the energy away from what I'm trying to do.

Right. Right.

Inevitably, it's gonna set you back. And I was. I wish I worried. The guys used to joke. I could tell. I like telling stories. Now that I'm gone, I could tell the stories. I remember I was playing for the Buffalo Sabres, and Rip Simonec was our trainer. He's been our. He was there forever. He's a fantastic, great guy. He would take care of me. My brother came in, he would give him full equipment. There's not a better trainer, just a great guy. So he played a joke on me. I was all excited the first time to play. My first game, I was 20 years old in Detroit at Joe Lewis Arena. And I asked them twice because they pack all your gear and they pack everything. I said, you pack my new skates? Because I had an issue with the skate. I thought about that because I packed and they never make mistakes up there. And then Rip got on the plane and says, oh, no, I think I forgot your skates is a joke. And I. And we had a. You know, we had A, you know, we had our own plane. So I got up and goes, sit down. I'm kidding. You gotta learn to relax. And all these older players are looking at me like, this kid's crazy. Yeah. So as an athlete, I realized that as things. As quick as things got good, they got bad just as quick. How do you help an athlete with their confidence?

Well, it's a great point you make. I always say it's a quote. I don't even know who said it. But I tell my athletes all the time, success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It's the courage to continue in both scenarios, right? You can be at the top of your game one day, and I see it actually in every single level. Like, it's interesting because, you know, I work with the little guys all the way through junior level, you know, amateur Olympic athletes, NCAA athletes, professional athletes. And that confidence is a struggle at any level. Like, it's so interesting. You know, it might change, but really the underlying theme is the same. And so that's why I say talent is overrated. Because you can be so talented at the top of your game one minute, and then you move on to the next level, and, you know, you're sitting on the bench or the sidelines, and everybody's confidence is shaken. So the big thing that I do with athletes is confidence, for me, is a big picture. What we tend to do is judge a moment in time, right? Like, if I make a mistake or I made a mistake, therefore I lose my confidence. I see it in every athlete. Like, when they're playing a great game, where's their confidence? You know, if they're at the top of their game, their confidence is up here. And then if the coach yells at them or they get benched or they make a mistake, their confidence goes down here. And then something good happens and it's up here. So it becomes this, like, I call it the confidence roller coaster. They're just up and down and all around. And if you're riding a roller coaster, you know, how much control do you have on a roller coaster? Not much, right? You are just going for a ride. So when the track is going up, you're going up with it. And even if you don't want to go down, when the track is going down, you're going down. So I really try and work with athletes to take control of their confidence. I really teach them the difference between healthy confidence, reactive confidence. So when we're constantly reacting like Mike, you're reacting to the coach, and what could he be thinking? Like you, you were basing all of your confidence completely on a reaction to something you had zero control over. So that's. You're playing a game that you cannot win. Like, there's just. It's a no win situation. So I try and teach my athletes to take control of their confidence. We need to focus on what we can control, let go of what we can't control. We cannot constantly be in reaction. We have to be a lot more proactive. And, you know, confidence for me is built on. It's not a moment in time. It's all of the years that you put into your sport. It's everything that you're proud of. It's things that you weren't good at that you became better at. It's your successes, it's your failures. It's really a big picture. And that starts to create a picture of who you are as a person, as an athlete, and what you bring to the game. And, and if you do that, really nobody can touch that. You know, the reality is, like, sport is full of mistakes. You know, you are never going to escape that. So the faster you can embrace that and learn from it and grow from it. Like I say, there's opportunity in every struggle and failure. It's an opportunity for us to grow and get better. If we fear it, then we will. You know, you'll never try things that, that you could do to push a new level and to get better. So that's kind of my thing. Big picture, really thinking.

I love that. I'll tell you why. Because you fail. It's not failure. You fail seven out of ten times in baseball. And that's great. If you do that, you're doing really well. You're batting.300.

That's right.

If you, you know, even two out of ten, two and a half, you're doing okay. But you said something. You said, I get this. You brought me back in sixth grade. Sixth or seventh grade, we had a field trip in Michigan. I was this insecure little kid with curly hair, sixth grader, loved sports, struggling in school, trying to do everything I can to get ahead with all the pressures of sports and parents and. I'll get into that in a minute. We go to. You said something funny. It brought me back. We went to Cedar Point in Ohio. It was a class trip and I was standing in line. I know it's a different analogy and what we're talking about, but you brought back a memory.

I can see it by the way I saw your face and like something lit up in you.

Yeah. I did see. You read me. You read. I'm not a good poker player. So what happened was we all the, you know, the girls and the boys, they said, we're gonna go on the Gemini roller coaster. Are you coming? And I didn't want to be the odd person out. I said, well, I don't feel good.

Come on.

Come on. They pressured me into it. And as I'm on that roller coaster, it's going click. I do it. I get in line. I'm petrified. I have to go to the bathroom. And I said, I cannot believe I have a little fear of heights.

Yeah.

So anyways, I'm going on this thing, and they say, it's not bad. You're safe. They lock you in. I gotta get out. I have nowhere to go, right? And it's going click, click.

You're going out.

I said, oh, no. And then my gut went all the way down in the roller coaster. But when I got off the roller coaster, I said, wow, I did it like I accomplished something. It was so funny. So when you said that, that roller coaster analogy, kind of different, but it touched what I was doing. So I got a question for you. A lot of these, you talked about parents. And I think the parents, unfortunately, we love our kids. I think the parents and the coaches can be the problem sometime. And I was guilty of it, of myself. My son played lacrosse at school, and he was only playing one minute a game. And he's in eighth grade. Yeah. And he's playing one minute. And I'm saying to myself, I've been around pro sports forever. Player development. Everybody should play. But they had to beat this big team at their school. It was all, we have to beat Country Day. They're the best team. We have to. And they were winning five, nothing. Then they threw some of the kids in. And then the parents are all cheering. And my son came to me after the game and says, I don't like this dad anymore. I'm going to quit. I was waiting for it. And as a parent, I talked to, the first time I ever did it, I said, I should talk to the coach. And I gave him my two cents. And I realized after I am as guilty as anybody else. So how can parents, coaches, best support the growth and development of our athletes?

You know, it's so hard. And I think everybody's got to work to do their job. So it's a triangle for me, right? Coach, athlete, parent. And all three need to be working well together to make the wheels run properly. And for parents, it's so hard. And I know and I'm a parent and I'm a sports mom also. And listen, this is what I do, right? I'm meant to be an expert in this and I've slipped myself a couple times. So. One thing that I think parents need to recognize is every parent is at risk of sort of losing control and perspective. And it's kind of the recipe being a sports parent. It's kind of the recipe for the perfect storm. You know, if you think of a sports fan in general, like I don't know what kind of fans there are out there, but you know, sports fans are die hard. Like you love your team like through thick and thin, you know, and you, there's so much emotion in it, right? Take the kids out of the mix, like just a sports fan. You're excited for game day, you're excited with the win, you celebrate it. Your heart is breaking for the loss. And a fan is not even playing the game. Like you actually have no legitimate attachment to it. And the emotion is so strong and intense right now. Throw the kids back into the mix. Now. There is an emotional attachment. There is something that affects, right? And you're a parent and a protector. And so really I do say every parent is at risk to lose control and perspective. So really first and foremost I say to parents is like, do your own game day check in. You know, what kind of sports parent are you? There's like a lot of different sports parents I create. Like, you know, there's the coach parent, the parent that's in the kid's ear, like you know, telling them, really coaching everything. And then the kid's confused because who do I listen to? My coach or my parent? There is the COVID agent. You know, you see the parent on the sidelines kind of talking and getting the lowdown on everybody. And you know, there's the parent that's in the coach's ear all the time and telling them what they should or shouldn't do. There's the anxious parent, the parent that's so afraid for their kid to make a mistake, you know, there's the ghost parent, the parents that indifferent. So we see all kinds of things. First thing I'm going to say as parents, like just do your own game day check in. Who are you? And then what is it that you're bringing to the table? And then I'll also say, like, why do you do what you do? Why do you have your kids in sport in the first place? Because I know that the intentions are all good, right? Like the Intentions are good, but then you got to make sure do your intentions for your child and within sport line up to the type of sport parent that you are. Because where do we fall off track with that? Right? So self awareness is key and just connect back to why, why you're there and why you have your kid there. And third, I'm also going to say, if you can't figure out what type of sports parent you are, ask your kid because I promise you they will tell you. So just a couple little tips for parents probably, if I could summarize everything. One of the best things that you can do for your child is praise effort and not results. The more you praise their effort, like, not like we tend to praise, like, oh, you won today. Like, do you think you're gonna win? Or you did so good, you got this many goals or you did this right. We're always praising the outcome and sometimes we have no control over the outcome. Right. How much playing time we get or what happens in a game. There's just too many variables. The only thing that we can control is our effort level. And you want your kids to be bringing 100% of everything they've got, irrespective of the circumstances. And so whether they got to play or they didn't play, even if it was that one minute, if they went out there and they gave their best effort, as a parent, I'm going to say, you know what, you did such a great job, like, you worked so hard that one minute. And I also watched you being such a good teammate on the sidelines and encouraging your teammates, like, praise their effort. Because effort for me is the path to mastering something. So that will make them more resilient, like even through hard times, if they keep working, you know, and then maybe they get a shot like your buddy in baseball. Be ready.

I love everything you're saying. I mean, parents should really listen because you're at the highest level. You're in the National Hockey League league, you work with Olympic athletes. I always believe in the same thing. Everybody with the first thing. Maybe a parent might say, hey, did you win today? It's not about winning, it's about first thing. Hey, did you have fun? Well, I didn't play much. I only played three minutes. And I would say, you know what? Be the best three minute player because you said it earlier. That's all you can control.

Right?

I have a quick story for you. So I was coaching one of the national programs. There was six of us coaching up in, in Rochester, New York, and we had all these top players from Honey Bake, Little Caesars, Chicago team Chicago, Boston. And we had a player on our team from a city that's really not well known. He was very short, he was shy. And his father came up to me and says, well, he's here. And I'm not saying it's political. Any way he got there, it didn't matter. Kid was not a bad hockey player. He ended up going to the national camp. They take six kids from each city. They took two from this little town where he was in the United States. While the moral of the story was the kid was so nervous play. Because he's a little kid. He got these kids. They had. We had guys. A lot of. Some of these guys are in the NHL today or play in the NHL.

Yeah.

So I said to him, I don't believe in robotics. I don't believe in being a robot hockey. I put my arm around him and I said, listen, I want. You're going to be my checking player every time we're on the ice. You're going to work hard. Hey, go score. I'm not. I don't believe in being a robot. Go have fun. It doesn't matter. And I put them out the last minute of the game.

Yeah.

And some of the honey baked kids and the AAA kids are looking at.

Me and they're, what are you doing? Yeah.

I didn't care if we won or lose. People would say you should always, always try to win. He did a great job. He had so much confidence. And the problem today is we want to. If you don't ever put certain players out in a position to succeed, they'll never succeed. Oh, I never played the power player. Penalty kills a kid. Well, then you're never going to develop into that. But I got a question for you. So I'm a very regimented person. I'm up early in the morning, exercising. I could only imagine now, like the last three months, this whole Covid thing turn the sports world upside down. Can you offer any advice to athletes? And I'm not even an athlete anymore. I'm a weekend warrior athlete. But how about the athletes during these tough times, three months of no ice time. Can you give us any advice to some of the parents about what we could do?

Yeah. Well, so I'm going to say routine is probably the most important thing that you have to do. But also to remember, like I think I said it earlier on, in every struggle there's opportunity. So a crisis like this, I mean, it's a global crisis. We've never seen anything like it before. It squeezes us, but it forces you to dig deep. And you know, who would ever believe you could spend months in quarantine? Like, we are so much stronger than we think we are. And I think a crisis, it forces us, it moves us, if you're willing to do it. So it actually stimulates the creative part of your brain. And you know, we don't have ice, we don't have the training facilities, we're not with our teams. But we can be very creative in terms of creating opportunity. We do have time to do things that we would have never had time to do before. We have learned to not take things for granted, like to have to wake up early and go to the gym. Like, imagine how amazing that's going to feel when you can get back and do that. So hang on to those things, what you've learned and what you appreciate. Now parents need to help create structure, creativity and routine for their athletes. Brainstorm together. What can we do? You know, maybe you don't have time to, if you're a hockey player, to do shooting as much and stick handling because you're always working on your on ice skills. Maybe another athlete we've talked about, Mike, and you share, you've been through sport, you were a professional athlete. And I think it's so powerful for you to share your story because you did hit the highest level, but to start to understand how the mental aspects held you back. What an amazing opportunity right now to train the mental side of our game. And like I say, just be ready. I ask all my athletes, what are you doing now? So that when your moment comes, whether it's getting through Covid or whether it's getting a spot on a team or the playing time, be ready. So there's so much you can do. Brainstorm, have fun with it, be creative. Think about new drills, new ways to work. Like you are going to grow as a person, you can grow as an athlete. You can develop other skills that you never had the time for and you can come back and be strong and everybody's in the same position. So my question is, what are you going to do with it?

I love that. Brenlee, this was great advice.

It was fun.

Mike, I know you're an author. I know you've written many books. I'm getting messages coming in saying you mentioned earlier that Branlee's an author. Can you tell us where we can get her books? Or how can people reach out to you? Or where are your on Amazon. Do you have a website Please share.

Yeah, I got a lot of things. So my book, first of all, it's called Fearless Inspiring Greatness From Within. And it's kind of a lot about what we talked about is, is how do you break through fear? And it's not about the absence of fear. It's about being afraid and doing it. Anyways, so the book is on Amazon. You can get it. There's also my website, which is brinley shapiro.com. i also have a company website. I have a company called Heads Up High Performance and that is mentalgamecoaching. Ca. The book, I think is on that website. Again, it's on Amazon. Bradley Shapiro.com and check me out on Instagram. I love sharing like all of my mental game tips and what I go through with my athletes. So Instagram is brenleeshapiro. And yeah, reach out to me. I'd love to hear from everybody and if I can support in any way, I'm always most happy to do that.

I'm going to leave this last thing because this was great. It says that she is so amazing, so compelling, so helpful, friendly. It was great having you. Thank you so much and have a great day.

Thanks, Mike. You too.