David McLlwain - NHL-Mindset-Never Quit!

Mike Hartman, Performance Mindset Strategist.

This is Develop the Mindset of a.

Champion with former Stanley cup champion Mike Hartman. Welcome to another episode. Today my guest is Dave McIlwain. Dave played 20 years of professional hockey in over 500 National Hockey League games. He played with the Pittsburgh Penguins, the Winnipeg jets, the New York Islanders, the Buffalo Sabres, Toronto Maple Leafs, Ottawa Centers. He also played in Europe for quite a while. He's a former teammate of and we actually got traded in the same trade deal together when he was with Winnipeg and went to Buffalo and I went from Buffalo to Winnipeg. So Dave, it's so great to have you here on the podcast.

Yeah, great. Great to catch up Hardy.

So our listeners would really know a little bit about you, your story. I always bring people on that are motivational type people that have bring motivation that bring inspiration to others and you have quite a story. Just going back and I have a bunch of questions for you. We're going to chat it up and our listeners would really just to hear your story and a little bit about you.

Okay, that sounds great.

So share your story with us. Starting with a youth hockey player all the way through.

Yeah, well, it was, you know, typical Canadian kid playing in a small town. And the town I grew up in was only 2,000 people, so we could barely put two lines together in our minor hockey system. And obviously that meant a lot of ice time. The competition was somewhat okay and often played up a level against guys a couple years older. So it made the development part. It's not the normal way of how kids develop today. We didn't have the AAA system that they have around Canada now. So I ended up playing that when I got to 14 or 15, I think we had a junior D team, which meant just because of the size of the town or whatever, that's the level of what it was. But I think it was 15 playing with, you know, guys that were 20 and it made you go up pretty fast and develop your skills pretty good. And yeah, I was there wasn't a lot of kids that come out of my area that made it pro or to that next level. And I was fortunate enough to get scouted to go play Junior B when I was 16. I think I was going to go play in St. Mary's the Junior B local team. And the year before there was some, you know, it was my draft year to Major A and that was a bit of a disappointment. As you know, I went and sat through the draft eight hours sitting there. Guelph phone says, yeah, we're Going to draft you in the seventh round, eighth round, go to the draft, sit there all day. Seventh, eighth round goes Guelph. They decide to pick a kid from a rival little town that was close to me. Drafted him, never got drafted, left there, pretty disappointed. Monday comes around after and all of a sudden Kitchener Rangers phone and asked me if I'd be interested to come to camp as a, as a walk on and try, try to make the team. Then obviously it's a little bit of a backwards way of getting on the team, but it ended up, you know, I went to camp, had all intention to go back to Junior B after a couple days and packed my bags up. I was trying to keep my options open with, you know, scholarships in the states. Not that school is my best way, but I want to have all options. And I was leaving and the coach at the time was Tom Barrett. And he said, dave, where are you going? I said, well, I, you know, I don't think I'm going to make this team. Says, you got a good chance of making this team. So dad and I talked about it and the rest is kind of history. Ended up making Kitchener, was there for a year and then obviously ended up in North Bay, as you did.

That's. Well, I consider you in the underdog story. There's a few of us, I think a lot of us could be clumped into that underdog. I had Todd Alec on who we played with, and he didn't even play. He never got drafted. He had to work his way up, even all the way through to, to the National Hockey League. So I remember you get from Kitchener to North Bay and my, My line mate as a kid was Doug Strombach. We grew up playing together. We grew up in Detroit. We grew up, we did everything together. We drove to the rink together. My father used to pick him up, drive to the, drive to the games. And it was always special. So Bert Templeton says, your buddy's coming to North Bay. We just traded for him. He's coming to North Bay from Kitchener. And then we have a throw in this Dave McIlwain. And we had John Keller, right?

Yeah.

And I said, oh, great.

So.

And you get there and I go, boy, this guy could skate. Meaning you and I love Doug. Doug's been a great friend, but you end up being the guy that really took it upon yourself and really did well. So coming to North Bay, probably I could say it had been one of your highlights of your career.

Well, it was, you know, I was devastated when I got traded, obviously Leaving Kitchener and close to home and thinking. All I could think about was the four hour bus rides we took to get up to play in North Bay from Kitchener. And we were doing those almost every week or every other week playing in North Bay. But it actually did. I had a decent rookie year for the ice time I had I get up there. I think Bert just gave you that confidence. He put you in situations to succeed. I didn't really overthink things, just played the game, as you say, an underdog. There was never pressure on us to be to the forefront. Like a lot of the first rounders, second rounders. I saw some of the guys in Kitcher, Craig Landon, second round, big kid, but just never developed. Not Craig Willenon. Robin Rubik was a second rounder, big tough kid. But they had pressure on them to perform being those draft picks. And we kind of come in as underdogs and just were able to play the game you get once, you know, it's like you get a little confidence, it can go a long way, but it can go the other way too if you don't have the confidence. And I think Bert put that in there. I'm not sure his tactics were always the best way to, to put the confidence in, but seemed to work with some of us in different ways as yourself. And we were able to develop in his the atmosphere he had there.

And that's so true. I mean, I go back to, you know, it's called story, to develop the mindset of a champion. And this is what we talk about. So I bring on people that won champions or champions in their own way, like yourself. And I tell the story about how I was with Larry Mavity. He did not like me in Belleville. The ice was a big ice surface. He had me killing pedal these. He said, you're not my type of guy. He wanted me to even play more physical than I did. And he said, why don't you meet me at the Dairy Queen? I want to talk to you. I go, the Dairy Queen, this is my second year. He says, we're thinking about trading you because you're not a fit here. So I said, can you please trade me closer to home? Windsor, Guelph, Kitchener, London. So he says, I'm sorry, we already traded you. I said, well, I thought you were asking me. He says, well, I'm trading you to North Bay. You're leaving today. I go North Bay. How do you get there? He says, it's a long way. So when you think about going to North Bay, you think about oh, no, really? I remember going up there and it feels like you're in the middle, but it ends up being such a great place, a lot of great relationships. So that's one thing I could say. So I want to ask you, what is the first thing that comes to your mind when I say Bert Templeton.

Respected, definitely respected in the, in the junior hockey world, you know, unfortunately passed away. But you bring up his name and I think every guy can come up with a story. He was definitely a disciplinarian. His tactics were, as we both know, very old school that I'm not sure would get away with today. And I was thinking before I come on, I'll remember one, one practice. I don't know if you remember, we'd come off a road trip or we weren't. We didn't play well, whatever it was. And we remember we had to practice in that old. I think it was a double rink. Really cold.

Cold. Yeah, yeah.

And all they did was dump the puck around the boards and we as wingers and centers had to go stand on the boards and the defense could get down and just label us. And we did that for like an hour. And he was, you know, I don't know what is what he was trying to instill on us, but it was, you know, I think guys ended up fighting the D or running the Fords. The Fords running the D. It was just like a non effective way. But anyway, I'm sure it brought us together somewhere. We definitely weren't going to do that practice again. So we made sure we won the next game. That one stuck in my head. I was just like, this is crazy.

Yeah. We could tell 10 hours of stories Todd Ellick brought up. I remember Burt used to come on the bus and he would sit in the back and he. And I remember he said to us one time, I was sitting there with Todd, he says, you know, Mike, the way you're playing, you're going to be clumped into the category. And you know, I'm shy, I'm young, you know, you're young and dumb and what do you, what do you mean, be category? He goes, well, one or two you guys like, like with Hatcher and we have certain guys that are going to play in the NHL. The most of you other guys are going to be working at the car wash or driving a Molson truck. Not that that's bad in life, but that's how he would get the best out of you.

Yeah, he had. Yeah. I always remember him too, sitting at the back There. And he'd always walk by after game. It could be a good comment or there would be a sarcasm. He was very sarcastic. And, you know, you got the thick skin pretty quick being around Bert. But in a way, he was. I think it was, you look back, testing you mentally maybe sometimes to see what guys could handle it. And he had to find a way as a coach. I think that's. You have to find which buttons to push with, with which guys. Some guys can do it, some guys just, you know, go the other way. And we've had both that many coaches over our career, junior pro, that some just know how to do it and others are pushing the wrong buttons.

I think that's the mental toughness that he instilled in us, and we talk a lot about that during our show. So I'm going to fast forward just a little bit to Czechoslovakia, where I played against you. I was on the US Team, and you were playing for Canada. And if anybody doesn't know, that year they had the world's most famous brawl with that team that you had on. And you could mention some of the guys that played on that team, like, every guy was a physical type guy. Pretty much, yeah.

We. And I remember playing the US we had that little skirmish at the start of the game. I don't know if you remember that. And.

Well, I got suspended from that.

Yeah, okay, I remember. You were probably right in the middle of that. And do you remember who you were with? Our guy?

Well, I did something, you know, and I'm not proud of it, but if you remember, before the game, you guys took all of our pucks and left us with one. And we had Brian Leach and Scott Young, and we had all of these great American players, and you guys left us with one puck. So I think Everett Cinepass. Well, I remember. So I told Bert, you know, I skated by Bert. I said, bert, you know, you guys are a bunch of idiots. He says, I don't even want. He says, you're not even welcome back to North Bay. But I started that year in Buffalo. I started the year in Buffalo. I said, don't worry, I'm not coming back to play for you. So he goes, don't worry, you're not going to make it through the game. And I said, neither is Theo Fleury, because Theo Fleury was coming by our bench and sticking us. So I went out, and when all the buddy was on the ice at the same time, I slashed. And I'm not proud of it, but I. I slashed. Fleury I've never done that in my life. I had so much emotions going on, you know, us, Canada. And I slashed him. I got suspended for two games there.

Yeah.

And then the fight started. Yeah, I don't. I'm not listening. Nothing that I want to tell my kids about, but it's.

But I remember that game and I knew you were probably in the middle of it somehow and. Yeah, so that was. That was one we did. We did have a tough team, you know, with guys. The late, you know, Steve Chase on. We had Theo Fleury, Everett Centerpass, Mike Keane, Shanahan. Shannon was a young guy, but still, you know, he. He played a big game. Different guys that a lot of guys had gone on to play pro. But yeah, we got into that final game for we. We were able to actually be playing for the gold medal. But in those days, it was the point system with the round robin, different than what it is today. And we had to win by, I think it was four goals. We were up five, two at the time. Four, two. And then a little skirmish started midway through the game. And you know, I remember being on the bench and watching two of their guys, I don't remember who they were, went out on the ice after the little skirmish. There was a five on five. And then their bench being. Canadians were going. But I remember Bert, we had Pat Burns. Guys were trying to hold the guys back. Their jackets were ripped and trainers were holding on. I was right by the glass. Next thing you know, they go, we go. And you know, the rest is somewhat history. If you wanted to Google it, you can see pretty much what. What went on. They. They tried. It was dark out there, but you could somewhat see. It's just like with the TV lights and you go into a rink and the lights are off. You can somewhat see, but looks super dark. And that was. They didn't know how to stop it. The rafts, I remember looking, they were gone. They were just sitting in the corner going, geez, I don't know, what do we do? So they left. They got sorted out. I don't know how long it went on. Maybe 20, 25 minutes. Off to the. Eventually got to our dress rooms and we all were sitting there just kind of waiting. They were. They didn't know what to do. Decisions with the ihf, you know, it was a final game and they were. We were possibly going for the gold medal. They come in, they said, you guys are disqualified. They're disqualified. I remember we all changed. Guys were beat up. Who was it? Greg Hoggett Nose was over by his ear. And they brought in the army and they had two lines of guys with machete. We were walking right onto our bus and they were walking right to theirs. We had an escort right out of the country because we were flying out of Austria from Czechoslovakia. And they got to the border, we left way we went, and that was it. We had no idea what was waiting for us at home. A lot of people remember that.

Well, I was at the game and we sat at the far side behind the net. I was at the game when that happened, and all the lights were shut off and I was in the airport, passing by you guys all sitting on the bench, sleeping with black eyes, broken noses. Everybody had looked like something happened to them. Like, it was unbelievable.

So it was a war, basically. A war that.

That's.

It's one that there's a blank spot. And when they give out the junior books of all the different years, it's kind of like a very. More of a black sheep, I guess, where we were.

Yeah, but Harold Ballard, the owner of Toronto Maple Leaf, still gave you guys a medal, I think.

Yeah. And I show people. I actually put it on my Instagram last. Last Christmas. I was over my dad's and I saw it and put it up, and it was probably a nicer medal that we got from Harold than we would have got from, you know, the. The real one, personalized numbers on it. He took a real pride in being Canadian, and at that time, he did not like the Russians. That was. That was his thing. And, and yeah, we were surprised. Everyone, we. We run into each other over the years as things go, and we always talk about that.

Well, tell. Tell us that. First time putting on an NHL jersey because you fought your way there. You're a kid that played junior, the lowest junior league you could play in, all the way up to the ohl. You never had it easy. And this is what people should understand. You fought your way up. And I don't mean physically fought. That wasn't your style. But you worked hard, you trained, you had everything. What was it like finally putting that jersey on the first time?

Well, I think, as every kid dreams of, to play in the NHL, and I can honestly say, as I was coming up from the. The low Junior into the ohl, it was kind of like, okay, you get to that levels, like, oh, maybe I can play here. And then you build that confidence, and all of a sudden you get to the third year and you're one of the top players in the ohl. And Three years ago, you didn't know where you were playing. So as I said before, that pressure wasn't there. I could concentrate. I just played. I didn't overthink things. I didn't think too far into the. To the NHL career as I was a late round as I don't know what round.

Were you seven or in the seventh round in the NHL?

Yeah, I was a ninth round. So there's. Those expectations aren't there? We could just go out and play. And I, I went to camp and. And they kind of had me penciled in as, you know, a third line, fourth line center and, and took it from there. I had to change my roles. I was behind Mariel, so there wasn't going to be a lot of offensive center zone time. So I kind of got turned into a more of a defensive center. And you kind of go with that. You obviously want to be able to put points up and when you can, you try to be that situation. But I didn't really get in a lot of those situations until I got trade to Winnipeg. But it was a special time to, you know, put on that Pittsburgh jersey. First game and, you know, you're there and you know, I was. I don't think I played my best the first few games, but once you kind of settle in and realize that you can play and once again build that confidence in yourself, and they had the confidence in you because they had you there. You just had to kind of learn to learn yourself to go, okay, I can't do this.

Well, they say the hardest thing is to, you know, once you're there is. Once you get there, it's hard, but staying there is twice as hard. So tell me, what was it like playing with Mario Lemieux? How was that?

I always tell people sometimes, you know, you had to, you know, pinch yourself that, hey, you're a player. And I wanted to stand up the bench and almost be a fan and like, okay, that was fun. You know, that was pretty good. Mario, he was so amazing. What some of the moves he would do and just, just at a different level. I often thought, okay, there's got to be another league that he could go to, like, get him out of here and, and go play at this other league. And he's one guy I would have loved to see in his being healthy and as good as he was in today's game, just without the clutching and grabbing. And you could see what he did in that era with maybe the goalies are better. I think it's all. Every area is different, right? So it's Woody Ben. The goalies are different, but with the skating, and he was. I tell people he was one of the fastest skaters I considered myself. I could skate pretty fast. We were doing laps like we always did that. He would be long strides. It looked like he wasn't skating, but, man, he was fast, right?

Yeah.

Like, it just. He looked effortless, but when he wanted to go, no one would touch him.

And I remember that because I talked. I played in Tampa with Taglionetti and Wendell Young, and Wendell used to say, hardy, he's a whole different level. When we would do shootouts, I mean, he would score almost every time I go, come on. How can he score on an NHL goalie every time? And it was tough to play against him because people would say, what was like playing against Gretzky? Well, you would lose him. He was unbelievable. Mario, it looked like he would turn it up that. Like, that extra notch of speed, and he had that long reach, and you get mesmerized by the puck, and he.

He.

He was unbelievable. Th. Those two guys, Gretzky and Mario, probably are the best two guys I've ever played against in my life.

Exactly. And Mario, he had that reach that, you know, he could have six feet over in one side and totally take it to the other side. And other six feet, you could have a wingspan at like 12ft like this. They couldn't get the puck off him. And. And on breakaways, it was just. It was at a different level. He knew it was basically put it right. Exactly. We all think we're putting it where it is. He did it most of the time, like, just to a different level, obviously. Wayne, I think they're two different players, but both obviously the best in our time.

I want to take talk a little bit about leadership, because we talk a lot about leadership. We, you know, we work. We help many companies within our. Within our coaching and what we do, and we help sport teams. Individual. But leadership is leadership. Can you. I mean, Mariola was a great leader, but who would. Who demonstrated the best leadership or that, like, captain that you ever played with?

That's a good question. I mean, I took different parts from, you know, as a young guy, you want. You sit and you kind of learn. You watch. Different leaders presented themselves in different ways. I think Mario was not a real vocal guy, but if he did, you knew something was up and he was pissed off, wanting to get a point across. But Mariel would just basically lead by example. I think, as we know, at different teams or different levels of the hierarchies there. But you always had guys that could be leaders just because they were taught even. I remember I played with Peter Taglin, Eddie, and Pete was. He was a leader, but he wasn't the best player. But he was vocal. There's some of those leaders that need to talk and need to get it out there. Obviously, they got to back it up by playing hard, which, you know, Pete did. And just one example, I would say I played in Toronto with, you know, guys like Wendell and Dougie Gilmore. Another example, Doug led by. By what he did on the ice. He wouldn't be too vocal in the room. Wendell was the same way. But then we had guys like Mike Foligno, who I think he played in.

Buffalo with, one of my favorites.

Yeah, Mike was a total leader. I still see him today. He's just like that type of guy that wants to get in and lead this group. Great player. Maybe wasn't the best player, but, you know, he would back whatever he had to say on the ice. But he was more of a vocal guy. I think every. Every guy's different. As I get older, you start being. As a leader, you try to lead by example. Sometimes, yeah, I was kind of. Maybe a bit of both. And you just hope the guys can follow. Follow along. But I think it's all those guys that were leaders, you know, earn the respect of being leaders. You have to. You know, that's part of being in the. In the hockey world is earning the respect from. From your teammates.

So. So the takeaway is. And I tell people this all the time, and what I'm hearing is you have quiet leaders, you have vocal leaders. Some people show their leadership by just things they do. Like a Mike Foligno would make sure every year that I would have a place to go for Thanksgiving. He would make sure that I have a place. Hey, are you coming for your young guy with the team? Are you coming to dinner with the guys? And that's true leadership. And can you share your most memorable hockey story? Is there something that sticks out in your mind?

Oh, God. I mean, I always read there's certain games. One was junior. I know we. I don't know if you were there. You know, it's. Maybe it's. Talk about myself more, but I know we had a big game against Hamilton, and we had to play. We had to beat them. They were like, neck and neck. And we went out and I ended up having, like, five goals and an assist. But as a team, we were all. It was a proud moment because we stuck Together as a team. Troy Crowder ended up having to fight Dennis Viell. I think a couple times. You probably ended up fighting somebody, too. But it was just a game where you could see, all right, this team's good. And we all kind of stuck together and we knew we would have a good team that year. And obviously, you know, we went. Went to the finals and. And lost. But those certain times like that, pro experiences, I. Being in Toronto, I think when I first got traded to Toronto, first game, putting the leaf jersey on, just because I grew up watching Toronto, and I think every kid in Southwestern Ontario was hoping to put on the blue and white. I was fortunate enough to do that and play here for 80 games.

That's fantastic. I do remember the story I was playing with you that night, and we probably could have won if we didn't have injuries. And we were so tired and exhausted. I can't remember why. I think we played so many games in our travel schedule that we could have won a Memorial Cup. That team, the team we had.

I agree. I mean, if you look back, they still talk about the only time that they had three teams in the. In the finals. Just a crazy way to set it up. The top two teams battle. We battle Oshawa for seven games. People talk about that Super Series for 30 years later. I don't know how long it's been more than that. And, you know, we battle them. Game seven, we lose there, we both go back in and we have to battle again, Game seven. Instead of saying, okay, if you guys get back, both teams are in the. In the Memorial Cup. I think we would have had a good chance of winning the Memorial Cup. Who knows? You never know. But there's good teams from Western Canada, Quebec, but we definitely had a. You know, you look at our team, how many guys that actually went on to play pro. It's. It was a pretty deep team. It's unfortunate because I know. I believe if we got there, we would have, you know, had a good chance of. We probably would end up playing Oshawa again, but who knows? Yeah, just the way it went. It.

Sure. I mean, that was. And that's, you know, we learned from, you know, from. It starts at the top. And Bert really had us playing. I thank him. I knew if I didn't play for North Bay, I don't think I ever would have been a professional hockey player. I would have just gone back to school. I did go back to school, but I would have gone back earlier. I told my father after I got traded that I might Just try this for a little bit. Go back to Detroit and go back to school. But he really got the best out of us and those are great memories. So. So tell us a little bit about what you're doing today, Dave.

Well, I ended up over in Europe, played there till I was 42, so I wasn't short at any years in the pro game. I came back and just kind of took a year to figure out which way I want to go. And I had an opportunity to go back to Germany to get into the coaching, this and that. And I just thought I was back home. It was nice to be home. I was there for 12 years and my son was here and I wanted to be near him. So I ended up getting into a buddy brought me into a company. We deal with security, so I'm more in the sales field of stuff. Started up a startup company which is portable phone chargers where there's an element of advertising. It's called Chargelo. Obviously with the craziness and the COVID going on right now, it's we. A lot of things are events and restaurants which are, you know, all closed down right now. So that part of things. Yeah, I was basically in the salesman do a lot with the alumni groups around, you know, the NHL alumni, the LEAF alumni. There's always different games, tournaments around the city here that keep us very involved. And I'm on the board with the LEAF alumni. So there's lots going on. It keeps you involved and still parts with hockey. But I like doing different things. The business side of things, just learning something different. I missed the game, but I know if I went back to Europe, you're back there for another 10 or 15 years. Right. And as we know, you can. The coach could be fired pretty quick and you're back starting all over again. So I'm happy with my decision. And I love being back in Canada.

So I realize we have a lot of coincidences, which is strange. And we play junior together. We played in similar places. You played in Cologne, Germany? I played in Cologne, Germany and I loved it. I was going to stay longer, but I was raising my kids there and I watched my daughter as they were growing. I said now it's time to leave. So I would have stayed in Cologne a lot longer.

I forget you were there one year too.

I was there one year and it was great. I killed pedal these. I had fun. There's not a lot of games. I lived right downtown on Weinsberger Strasse. I, I, I was able.

Maybe I. There's another one. Maybe I had your old apartment. Who knows? Because I lived on Vinesberg Strasse for eight years.

No way. I was on like the top floor of the. Maybe the third, because I had. Remember carrying groceries up the steps. Beautiful place, though.

They weren't. There wasn't a lot of elevators in those buildings. They kept. It's. It was tough when you had a bad knee injury or something. Made it. Made it difficult.

Yeah. We always talk about stories of champions, but I'll throw the one story out. So it the hardest thing to do. They give us a car. They give you a place to live. I mean, the money's great, everything else. So I get this. They give us this big green Ford. Ford was our sponsor. So they gave us this like van type car that. That guzzles gas. It's. Gas is astronomically expensive. So I'm with my daughter and she spoke German because she was going to the German school. So they don't let you stand at all like, you know, when you're waiting for somebody, they do not let you pants. So I'm waiting for Bob Halkitis because he ran into the store. And for me to go all the way around the block in rush hour would have taken a half hour. So I'm standing in there waiting, and a cop knocks on the window and he starts speaking German to me to move. And I said, and I knew Bob was coming. I saw him. I go, I don't understand. I don't understand. And he keeps. Now he's getting mad, the police officer, and he's knocking on the window. He goes, you got movement. And I said, I don't understand. And my daughter starts speaking German with the police officer and my dad. Then she's explaining to me. And I said, great. Then I had to move because the police officer saw my daughter telling me. Exactly. But it was. It was great. So one more question for you, and I think it's important for our listeners because we take. I've always tried to take. I say hockey was one of my best educations. And people would say, I don't understand. You're just shooting a puck around and you're passing a puck around. You're playing a game.

No.

You learn a lot. Have you taken anything that you've learned as a hockey player into your business today? Like for sales?

Absolutely. I think once I got in the business world and the company and the owner, I would sit there and go, you see, the dynamics of a business is very similar to that of a hockey team. You know, you need. You need the top people. You need the seniority. You need the hierarchy. In a company like a team, you have your top people, you have your middle people, and you have your bottom people, but you need those bottom people to feel as important as the top. They need the. The bottom people have to be there, and the top people need those bottom people to make this work. And it's no different than a fourth line, first line. It's a team, and everybody needs to play together, Right? So you need those fourth line guys to be a successful team. And I just saw the similarities with the business and making the people that were out in the doing the actual security work. You had to make them feel very important in the company and show the respect to them because they helped build the company.

That's a great message. Dave, it was great catching up with you after all these years. It's great seeing you. You are always a great teammate. I've always heard of, you know, great, great things with you, and it's. It was great to have you here. I really appreciate you coming on.

My pleasure, Hardy. It was great catching up and all the best with your show. I've watched a few episodes, so keep up the good work.

Thanks, Dave.

All right.