Dr. Adam Wright-Performance Specialist

Mike Hartman, performance mindset strategist. This is Develop the Mindset of a Champion with former Stanley cup champion, Mike Hartman.

Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode. My guest is Dr. Adam Wright. Adam is a performance enhancement consultant specializing in cognitive and physical conditioning. He's an author, speaker, speaker, lecturer, educator, performance coach, exercise physiologist. There's a lot of things next to his name. Adam has worked with some of the top athletes in the world, all over the world. He's also works with performers, some big time celebrities, and he is really well known, especially when it comes to mindset and performance. This guy knows the stuff. Adam, we're so happy that you could join us here. Please share your story and tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.

Mike, thanks for having me on the show. It's good to see you. Congratulations on the show, by the way. This is great. So I grew up in Trenton, New Jersey, and I always had a lifelong passion for sport, for physical activity and self improvement. And I can remember my father take me to the basement and introducing me to weight training early on as a young boy. Man, and I was immediately hooked once I got a little positive feedback. You know, the first time I went to the gym, probably 12, 13, I immediately felt like it was home. And since then, I don't think I ever left. So as for sports, I grew up playing all different sports, but baseball was really my chosen sport. And I often like to say that baseball saved my life. You know, I think it gave me discipline, it gave me focus, it brought me away from home and to college to play. But unfortunately, I talked myself out of the game prematurely. And I probably have spent the rest of my life trying to figure out why the brain can be your best friend and your own worst enemy. Yeah. So I took a corporate job in Manhattan for a couple years, but then I just followed my curiosity, my passion. I started my graduate training at Columbia University studying applied physiology. But then I became more and more fascinated with the mind and body and how it impacted performance. And I went on to finish a master's and a doctoral degree at Temple University under a professor named Michael Sachs, who was, ironically, the first person ever to study the runner's high. So it gave me an introduction to altered states of consciousness of peak performance, which was fascinating to me. Since then, I've been a coach and a professor, and that's about it.

So that got you. So that's what's exciting. So how did you get in the field of human performance? What was that? Why that you wanted to be in the business of human performance.

I think anybody who does this work does it because they are obsessed with optimizing their own performance or trying to figure themself out and really trying to push the boundaries of what they're capable of. And I was just. I was a science nerd. I was a geek and I was a jock. And what better combination than to put the two together and not only to get to study it for, I think, eight years in graduate school, but also to do it in the lab. And I could test it on myself and I could test it on my clients. And I mean, it's almost like you go to work every day, you don't feel like you're working a day in your life.

That's great. So can you tell us a little bit about who do you work with?

Oh, so I've had the privilege to work with such a wide range of clients through the years. At this point, I probably have worked. I was trying to count the other day about 15 different sports. And, you know, that's at every level from elite high school and collegiate, national level competitors, and even professionals. But also I coach performers in the corporate world. You know, their jobs also demand, like, high stakes environments and decisions and volatility and a lot of dealing with pressure. And I see CEOs and hedge fund executives and even some performing artists, you know, so I really saw a wide variety of performers that kind of all are interesting in their own way.

Yeah. So I've known you work with Olympic athletes, professional. But I recently saw your name on a Jerry Seinfeld special on Netflix. Can you share that with us a little bit? I want to know more about that because I'm a big Jerry Seinfeld fan and.

You know, you know, joke. It's like one of the best things about this, this job in this field is that you get to spend time with people that you would many in many ways, like, pay to spend the time with them. And they're paying you. So it's not a bad way to spend an hour without going to a lot of detail about Jerry. I've been working with Jerry for a while, and we trained him for a helicopter jump into the Hudson. And he's just a fascinating guy, 65 years old. He had this great idea that we'd make this happen. And he's probably the most disciplined and focused and fit guys that I know. And he just operates at a level that's so far beyond what people can imagine, what it takes for Jerry to do that day in and day out is just an immense amount of training physically and mentally.

So you do a lot of mental work training with him, a lot of mindset work. Because you have to have some sort of a mindset to jump out of the helicopter.

Yeah. Jerry doesn't need help with mindset. Jerry's just fine with mindset. I think it's all integrated. One physical training enhances mindset training and vice versa. So I think with someone like Jerry, you take an integrated approach, but you also. I only can give to someone like that so much. And mostly with Jerry, it's on the physical end of things.

No, that's fantastic. So is there, I mean, I gotta ask you a question because some of us, a lot of us get a little bit confused. Is there a difference between like sports psychology and physiotherapy? Because is there a difference between the two?

So I think that what we often conflate with what we're doing in sports psychology and performance enhancement, and this kind of work is that a sports psychologist is to be a psychologist. It's a licensed term in 50 states. Right. So it is protected as a licensed profession. And they go through a very different type of training that we go through. They go through a clinical or counseling doctorate program. 3000 hours of clinical work after the fact that. And then they might get some sports psychology training on the side, but they work in treating athletes with disorders. So it could be mood disorders, anxiety disorders, personality disorders. They also might do some consulting as well. Someone like me is trained as a sports scientist. So my degree is in department of kinesiology with a specialty in the psychology of human movement. So I'll study clinical classes and counseling classes. I only deal with performance enhancement and well being. If I find that I get a sense that someone's dealing with an issue that goes beyond that, I will immediately refer. The issue is that the public and even some practitioners tend to conflate the terms. And really we're in a world where buyers need to be aware. As a consumer and as athlete, you really need to vet what professional you're looking for and what your needs are and what their skill sets are and make sure there's a correct match.

Okay, so in your opinion, like you work with so many high level professionals and celebrities. So I gotta ask you, in your opinion, what allows people to consistently succeed at a very high level?

Oh, man, that's a great, that's a great question. So how about if I turn this around? Mike, do you mind if I ask you a question? So go ahead. So with all your Years in pro sport, what was your experience? What allowed you to succeed at that level and the people around you?

That's also a good question. So for me, I had a purpose and a why. And my goal ever since I was young was to play one game in the National Hockey League. And I did whatever it took to try to accomplish that goal. So that was my why. I really wanted to play. I had a dream fascination of playing in the big leagues, playing with players that I looked up to, and I just had that vision and goal and that's what I wanted to do.

So it sounds like that when you, when you can find that purpose, that will. So the saying goes, if you haven't why a why you can endure. Anyhow, that motivation is what drove you to do all the necessary little things to get you to that level and keep you playing consistently the level for so long.

You know, I looked at it differently. It wasn't even about the money. I loved it. I loved the game since I was a little kid. So it was like, here you are, you're a man playing a boy's game, you're playing a sport. And for me to make a living at it was more than a dream come true. So for me I just said, boy, I love this. And it's like I teach people in my coaching, when you chase the game or you chase money, it doesn't happen. But when you have passion for something you love so much, it didn't seem like work to me.

Yeah, it sounds like you're intrinsically motivated. I think that's a major factor. I see that across a lot of the athletes and performance I deal with. You know, the most successful athletes, I'm sure you saw this, aren't necessarily the most gifted or the talented. You know, of course they're going to reach a certain threshold. But in many ways I find it's their psychosocial skills that allow them to succeed. They're grittier, you know, like you, they have these long term goals and they had a why. And I also find that a lot of the athletes I work with, particularly at the highest level, they're psychologically flexible. And what I mean in terms of they can emotionally regulate really well. You know, they really stay focused on the controllables and in the present moment and they have the ability to perform under pressure because they could let go of any attachment to the results or the outcome. Does that make sense?

No, it does. So that leads me to a question. So what, what causes people like in the real world, I have to that choke under pressure, like an athlete or somebody in business, what would make them choke? Is that their mind? I know you asked me before if I ever get nervous doing this and I said no, I love doing this. It's the same thing. Like, what would that. Why do people choke?

You know? Do you know who Malcolm Gladwell is? The author? He's an author, Malcolm Gladwell. He's wrote several great books. But he has a quote which I thought is such. He's a non scientist, but I thought he summed it up so well when he defined choking. He said choking is about thinking too much and panicking is about thinking too little. Choking is about the loss of instinct and then panic is the reversion to complete instinct. So they may look the same, but they're very different, which is interesting to me. So what happens with choking is you start to focus your attention internally. So if you're going to take a slap shot rather than focus on where you want the pump to go, you're going to be deep dissecting your swing. You're basically your form and your motor learning and acquisition. And my foot in the right place and my hand in the right place. The moment that starts to happen, you start internalizing. Is when motor movement breaks down. Right. And ultimately why does that happen? Because you're seeing a pressure situation as a threat. It's a fear response ultimately.

Well, because I see a lot of athletes, let's say an athlete, they're great in practice. I've been around a lot of great practice players. Their skill level, they look nice and loose and they're having fun. But as soon as that's game time, their whole demeanor changes.

Yes. So given your experience, like what did you, what were some of the interventions you used to help deal with pressure? Because I, you know, obviously we use a lot of them in sports psych. But what about just from your own experience?

So in the beginning years, when I first, I mean, my goal was to play in the NHL, so I learned a valuable lesson. So my first, let's say my first exhibition game, I scored a goal, I was on top of the world, I felt great. I was on that adrenaline. The second game, you know, I was feeling pretty good. So what happened was I made the team my first year in Buffalo and that was great. But what happened was after about the sixth game, I was making mistakes, I was getting nervous, I had self doubt, oh, do I really belong here? And why? Like I didn't understand. So they ended up sending me back down to Junior. Then I started a whole year in the minors to develop. The next year I was in Rochester. So I learned the only thing I could do. And I said, said this a lot, I sound redundant, is when I put my skates on, I have to outwork the person across from me. I have to make sure I'm really good in my own end. And as a professional athlete, I believe we're different. And I believe we're different. Many reasons. We like to keep it simple. When things get complicated, you start going in different directions. So my thing was to keep it as simple as possible.

When you say simple, what do you mean by that? You mean in terms of you just. You stay present, you don't. What do you mean by that simple?

Well, everybody has a role in sports. I can only talk about my sport. But I know in football there's a backup quarterback. In catcher, the New York Yankees has Carmine. So I know that he might only play, what, 50 games a year or 60, but he has to be ready. So I knew that I never really wanted to go in a different direction. And I teach everything's about a story. So this was a funny story. So I was playing for the Sabers and I kept it really simple. So the puck, I get it. I get it out. I don't want to take any chances. I would always play to make sure I did my role. And if I tried to become a goal scorer, I knew I wouldn't have a job. I had to be a really a hard working, physical player. So the funny thing was I was playing. My father had a satellite dish in Michigan. He would watch a lot of the games. He'd watch. And sometimes I talked to him after the game. He would say, oh, you look good. Oh, okay. You did all right tonight. You look like you scored a goal. Great. And there was one game in particular that we played the Montreal Canadiens and they won the Stanley cup the year before we won one to nothing in Buffalo in the odd. And I didn't do much of anything to the visible eye, to my father or somebody watching. I didn't score, I didn't have any shots on net. But I got the puck, I got it out, I made a simple play. I had my guy. I didn't take long shifts. I did all of what I say is the little things and had a really good game. So after the game, I call my father and he said, yep, I shut off the game after the second period. I said, what do you mean? He goes, well, I didn't even notice you. I said, that's kind of funny because our Coaches and our management told me, it's the best game I ever played. So right away, yeah. So he learned as a player. So I've learned to really keep the game. When you say simple is stick within my boundaries of what I'm supposed to do.

Interesting. So I think that aligns very much to how we start with our clients, because the first thing you need to teach a young athlete is they need a foundation. And part of that foundation is knowing yourself, understanding your strengths, understanding your roles and responsibilities, knowing your triggers, knowing your disposition and your personality, knowing the internal stories that you tell yourself, both good and bad, you know, and ultimately how the brain works. And a big part of what I heard you say at the beginning of that story is, is that you need to start to understand that stress is inevitable. Even at the highest level. Doubt is inevitable. In fact, in many ways, it's necessary to perform because it's going to give you energy, it's going to give you drive. So the notion that we need to squash fear and doubt is absurd. It's a fallacy. We need to learn to accept it and direct our attention to the simple things. Right. That's part of a process motivation and process goal setting. And I think often we get into trouble because we're constantly worried about the results, as opposed to just putting your nose down and doing a job and letting go of the outcome and just control the control. What can you control? You control your attention, you control your emotions, you control your behavior. That's it. You can't even control your thoughts. So understanding how your brain works in this way, particularly under pressure, is an essential foundation. And then we go on and we could teach more interventions. Of particular interest to me these days is this mindful acceptance approach that we take with many of our clients.

Yeah, no, I agree with you 100%. And the old days. So I'm going back to the game. Like with baseball and the way the old school was, we're talking 20, 30 years ago, where they would say, well, you got to be the first one on the ice and the last one off. Well, things have changed. Things have changed because I watched the superstars, I studied them, I called them the champions. So when I say, you know, develop the mindset of a champion. I been around a lot of champions, and a guy like Mark Messier was not the first one on or the last one off. Some of our top players were not the first one on, the last one up. And I talked to some major League baseball players that I. That I knew. I knew Trevor Hoffman, who who was a family friend for four years and Trevor was a top closer in baseball. And the whole purpose, what they told me was, and I learned this at a very young age, that recovery is everything.

So, yeah, go ahead.

No, so that's really it. So I've learned to make sure that as long as I'm giving 100% and not overdoing it and overusing my body or trying to think too much or playing that game in my head. So by the time I get to the stadium, I'm tired because if I do that, I'm in trouble if I play this game in my head knowing, like, we're going to play a tough team and they have some physical guys and if I would go into the approach and the mindset of, boy, I'm nervous what's going to happen. You almost psych yourself out. So I went. So I tried to not think about it. I tried to think about other things. And I want you to elaborate a little bit more on how important recovery is, because I know it's a big factor. Today.

Before I, before I touched about recovery, obviously it's, that's pretty much the hot topic these days. I, I want to talk about practice because I agree with you. I'll tell you a little story. I was, I was on the, the PGA Tour at the US Open with a client. And if you play any golf, are you, are you a golfer?

I tell people I'm a 18 handicap, so I'm really a 22 handicap.

Precisely. Yeah, you're in my world, right? I play golf. I'm not a golfer. But you get behind the ropes with these guys and they're playing and women and they're playing a different game. Right. They're not playing the game that we play. But what I noticed with my client at the time is he had this concept that he wanted to be the first one out there, last one to leave, and if he was like working harder, he thought that was better. And after that US Open, he did not make the cut. And we had a long discussion and we said based upon this concept of deliberate practice, the researcher who first started looking this was Anders Ericsson. We know that we want to make the best of our practice by practicing in a smart and specific way as opposed to just doing reps and putting the time in, grinding. And it's an old school way of looking at things. And in many ways, what we see with many of our clients is they're over training, they're putting endless hours in, they're not purposeful hours. And they're coming in overtrained and often getting injured as a consequence. Not alone. Like, we're not even talking about the psychological burnout and overwhelm that you feel with that kind of pressure. So I agree with you 100%. And now with recovery, you know, we physiological and mental. There are so many ways to monitor this. I mean, right now I have my HRV and my wound band, and I have my OURA ring. And we can use technology now to really collect data 24 7. And it's not just a subjective feeling. We could objectify this. And I truly know if my clients are recovered or not, and then we can intervene accordingly.

That's so true. So I learned a lot. I talked to a lot of young athletes, and I talked to a lot of different parents, and they said, boy, my son practiced for six hours today. And I said, wow, that's great. But it's not the quantity. Right. It's more the quality is what you're saying. It's the quality of going out there and working on your skills so you could be on the ice. And what I've learned is what we should know about this is you develop bad habits.

Yep, precisely. Once you start to get tired, you start to break down. And when you start to break down, you continue to practice, you're essentially ingrating poor motor patterns, just the opposite of what you want to do. So I tell my clients, you know, just be. Training doesn't just have to have to be. For instance, in ice hockey, it doesn't have to be on the ice. You can develop the mental skills. Practice off the ice. That is just as important as your physical training. We spent so much time on physical and conditioning and biomechanics and strategy and technical and tactical where we could truly benefit from developing a very robust mental skills. Practice mind management techniques.

That's so true. So do you have any. We have a lot of corporate America people, people that are. That work in a. Let's say in a dental practice or a hygienist or dentist or different professionals around the world. Is there anything that somebody could take home with them that you can give them any advice on, like the mental side of things or preparation or even the physical side as well.

So. So I have. I. So I can. Let's. Let's start with one intervention that I think is important. Then I'm going to my big five that I tell my athletes, my younger athletes. Okay. So if you want to start doing one thing, I think that's important. Start a mindfulness practice. Right. Use the technology. Get an app. Let's start becoming aware of your thoughts. Because the more aware of your thoughts you can become, the more separation and headspace you have between yourself and your thoughts and you realize that you don't have to get hooked by them. And you could choose to act upon your value based goals rather than the stories and the constant self chatter that you hear in your brain. That's number one. So if you're not meditating now, get an app. Some of them are actually free. And start. Second, learn how to use imagery. And I think we are mistaken in how we use imagery because we think it always has to be positive. And what we tell our clients is anticipate, anticipate, anticipate. The way to keep composure is to anticipate the unexpected. If you know you're having a meeting, plan for everything possible to go wrong, then come up with a solution and then play that solution through in your head as if you're there with all your senses. This will give you a true sense of confidence. It's going to allow you to be adaptive and flexible. So when something does go wrong, which it inevitably will. Right. We'll be able to keep our composure and our heart won't explode out of our chest. We won't run around like a chicken without a head. We'll actually be able to adapt immediately. Okay, that's my one. I think the big five I like to give. I know we got to wrap up fairly soon, but I want to give it to the athletes, if you don't mind.

No, I love it. I love to hear all of them. That's two. Let's go through them. We want to learn.

So this is not necessarily sports psych in general, I'm going to say. Right. But what we like to do is like what I would say, like, what are the lowest hanging fruit as a young athlete? What can we really dial in on? Right, so here's my first one. Take your sleep, take your nutrition, take your training, and take your friends very seriously. Take it as if your life depends upon it, because in many ways it does. Number two, disconnect from social media. Take the time to be a producer, not a consumer. Start to cultivate real relationships. Create a masterpiece every day. Right. Develop a hobby. Train harder, smarter. Learn something new. How about picking a book up on sports psychology or reading a book on stoic philosophy, which by the way is one of the best philosophical ways to approach competition. Just stop wasting time and consuming nonsense. There's always someone working harder and smarter than you. The last thing you want to squander is your time. Third, get to know yourself. You know, create a mission statement. Like you said, what are your passions? What are your principles? What is your purpose? Why are you in this game to begin with? Because if you have a solid, why, you can become gritty and endure almost anyhow no matter what setbacks you incur, you know where you want to go. If you're going to use tech, as I said, use the apps that help you grow as a person. Even as simple as a breath app. I have colleagues that work with special Forces. You know, there are breath apps that you can get online that they use within the Navy seals. I trained with them for three days a couple like a few months ago. You know, this is what they're working on. You know, these are the best performers in the world in the most volatile and stressful environments. Why not practice what they're doing? We have access to it. And last I think this is just a concept is particularly for the young athletes, is take as many chances as you possibly can and make yourself uncomfortable. Because this is the best way to become antifragile, right? If you are not failing, you are now growing, right? Don't play it safe.

I love that. I love that. The last one you said was I talked to people about failing and there's a difference between failure and failing, right? So to me, if you fail, you fall down, you get up, you're a young athlete or you're in a corporate America, you've had a terrible day, you, you have to rebound the next day. Okay, you failed a little bit. But failure in my eyes is quitting, right? Giving up. And we try to tell this it's the same thing, I believe because we do a lot of the same thing. I love everything that you do. We talk a little bit about the athlete side. The person in corporate Americas I know you work with, like I said, some without saying names we don't want, but movie stars and the top golfers and some of the top athletes in the world's Navy seals. I know you've worked with big hedge fund group here in New York, many of them. And what I've learned, you have to share this. It's the same thought process.

Unless I'm wrong, you're 100% right. The brain on stress, the brain under pressure doesn't know the difference whether it's a saber toothed tiger or if you're giving a speech. It is the same physiological process. The stress response is a natural fear response. The difference is we have to teach ourselves, how to moderate that and how to perceive it in such a way so that now, rather than seeing pressure as a threat, we see it as a challenge. And that changes our physiology and our outlook on life.

Now, that's so true. I mean, that's so true. I've met so many people, even in corporate America, that struggle under pressure. They're worried. They're worried about their parents, they're worried about their age. They worry about the younger millennials coming in, taking their job. And it's the same in pro hockey or pro sports. I would worry about, oh, boy. I read in the summer that the team I was on just signed a left winger out of the University of Maine or wherever it is. And you start thinking, wait a sec, there's only four left wingers. And they're talking about him making it. I'm a fourth liner. And you have to have that mindset saying, okay, you can't worry about it. Sometimes it's better not to read the paper and then go and just. And go do it. And it's the same in corporate America. It's the same thing. It's the same with our young athletes at a different level. I want to ask you, because a lot of us have read the book the outliers doing things 10,000 times, because I know you talk about recovery. What's your feeling on that in terms.

So I actually mentioned this, that that 10,000 hour rule was a misappropriation of Anders Ericsson, who is a kinesiology professor at Florida State. And he did this work in the mid-90s. And ironically, you know where that research came from. It was like it was based upon 12 violinists. It was absurd. And then we extrapolated all this, all this data, and we. We started training our kids at 8 and saying, you need to specialize in a sport for the next 10 years because it's the only way you're gonna make it to the highest level. It's absurd. The research not only doesn't support it, but it goes exactly against it. So what we should be doing more and more right rather than worrying about burnout and recovery. It's like, we need to create optionality. We need diversity in sport. We need physical literacy, right? We need to explore movement patterns like from an early age. This idea that we need to commit to anything for so long and train so is absurd. The research just doesn't show this. And anecdotally, I'm sure you experience this in the same way.

I absolutely have. And that's why I would tell people when they ask me, they say, well, what is the definition of fitness or it's the ability to recover. Well, Adam, listen, it was fantastic having you here today. I have to ask you, is there, do you have a website or an email address that people can find you and see a little bit about what you do?

Sure. Thanks, Mike. You could reach me through my website, dradamright.com D R A D A M W R I g h t.com Best way to get to me. Thanks for having me, man. I really, I could speak for hours about this, so I appreciate it.

Oh, we could talk for hours. I know. I always love talking to you, picking your brain. You have a lot of knowledge, a lot of, you know, you're being a professor and being in this world. This is, you're great at it. And thanks so much for being here.

Thanks, Mike. I greatly appreciate the opportunity. Good luck with this.

Thank you.