Graeme Bonar - NHL- Injury, Struggles To Leader

Mike Hartman, performance mindset Strategist. This is Develop the Mindset of a Champion with former Stanley cup champion Mike Hartman. Welcome to another episode. Today my guest is Graham Bonner. Graham is a former Ontario Hockey League player. He played in the mid-1980s. Graham played for the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds a little bit with the Peterborough Pete's. He, he was drafted third round, 54th overall by the Montreal Canadiens in the National Hockey League. Graham, I'm really excited to have you here today and our listeners would really like to hear your story.

Okay, well, thank you for. I'm flattered by you inviting me on your show. Mike. I know a little bit about your hockey career. It's a small world that we live in but I'm excited to talk to you. Yeah.

What's always been nice, you know, I knew a lot about you. I mean you were known as really for the hockey from the hockey side of it, big physical hockey player, 6 foot 3 hockey player, could score goals, could do it all. But the important thing is I think the listeners like just off the bat, I know you have a great story. We could start when you're young, all the way up. I know there's a lot of great good things about you and then I know you've had some setbacks and let's shoot away. We want to hear it.

Okay, well we'll start off, I mean obviously I grew up just in a suburb of a suburb of Toronto. It's called Memoco. Some hockey players that come out of there, Brendan Shanahan's, the David Bolands. But before that there's a guy named Al Smith. Rich tradition, great suburb, very, very close knit community. Something that we're very, very proud of. But I grew up playing hockey and lacrosse where the were the major sports. You know, there's baseball and soccer as well. But I was a big hockey, hockey lacrosse guy as far as that is. So I grew up playing a minor hockey league with the Marlies in Toronto. Oh yeah, Yeah. I think you'd be a lot of the Toronto or you know, tournament teams, especially the American kids coming up. Toronto was a hotbed for, for a lot of hockey. So had a lot of success with the Marlies, a lot of good memories. Played a year junior B as a 14 year old, 15 year old with Henry Carr Crusaders. And then I was, I was actually drafted by the Windsor Spitfires and then I was traded to Sault Ste. Marie where.

Oh really?

Yeah. Where most of most people I'm you know, recognized for was the Sioux Greyhounds because We had some really good teams back then, Mike. Yeah.

Well, great. So you had, you had a really good junior career. And before I dive into some of the personal things, I mean, you had in 66 games, you had 66 goals, 71 assists, 137 points. I mean, you're a big guy at 6, 3, 2, 10. I mean, how did you score 66 goals? How did you do it? How'd you score a goal, a game? How did you do that?

Smoke and mirrors, Mike. We had, we had a powerhouse up there. I mean, I had some good line mates, some good teammates. Wayne Gruel, who was one of those guys that was one of the best, smartest hockey players ever played with. A lot of listeners would probably know about Bob Probert, who is, you know, a good friend of mine that was the big line up in the sioux. Bob had 20 goals, I had 66 and Wayne Gruel had 59. That's the year that we won the OHL championship. We went undefeated at home that year. So that record still still stands. It's actually the 35th anniversary of that this year. So there's a lot of excitement over that. And the Sioux, I think, putting in a bid for the Memorial Cup. We'll see if this crazy world ends. So there's talking about a big reunion from that team. Yeah.

Well, that's great. Well, people don't realize, like the OHLs, a really great league. So you have your three major junior leagues in case people don't know. So if you're an Ontario born kid, you play in the Ontario Hockey League or you go to college. If you, if you're from Quebec, like Montreal or Quebec City, La Valle Verdun, you end up playing in the Quebec League. And if you're from anywhere out west, I mean that's, that's called the bus league. I mean you can be from Spokane to Portland to Saskatoon to Kamloops, and that's called the Western Hockey League. So the route, you know, you're, or if you're an American, you could play in any of the three leagues. So it's a stepping stone. Especially in our days, it was the quickest way to the NHL was to play and in the ohl or play major junior hockey.

Yeah, most definitely. I mean, I grew up as, you know, as a hockey rink rat. I mean, I used to go to the Marley games Sunday. Sunday afternoons I played hockey with the Junior Marley. So we used to get up on Saturday mornings at 6am, have our practice at Maple Leaf Gardens, have breakfast and we're fortunate Enough to, you know, you get to watch the Leafs, you know, if they're pre game skate back in the day, in the morning and the visiting team. So you know, growing up in Toronto and being a Canadian boy, I mean that's, it was quite a privilege. But a lot of really great memories, fond memories, you know, being that close and exposed to NHL players at a young age.

Absolutely. Toronto's a stepping stone and stuff. I lived actually in Mississauga and I played tier 2 hockey starting out. So I played for the North York Rangers and I used to drive down on a Saturday to, to see the Toronto Marlies. They played in the, it was back in the old Ohr where they had the Marlies and at nighttime I'd catch a Toronto Maple Leaf game and what a great area for hockey. It's like everything stops and even back then they're scalping tickets at Maple leaf garden to 2, $300 for, for, for, for one ticket. Back in those days it was crazy. I mean hockey was everything in Toronto.

Well, it is and it's a Leaf town. It's. I mean, but there's so much hockey in around the area. I mean I'm still an OHL fan so I love, I mean you got Oshawa just EAS and then just west of the city, you know, you've got Guelph, you've got Kitchener, you've got London, you've got Barry to the north and farther up Sudbury and of course you know, we got the Sioux. We were like eight hours away. So we were comparable to a team in the Western League because our closest trip back then was four hours and the rest of the trips were six, but mostly eight plus hours wherever they were. So we were proud of being road warriors. And the Sioux was, we used to call, well teams would call it the Sioux flu. They had the mysterious injuries. I'm not sure how the teams were because you're a couple years younger than me, Mike, but we used to have the mysterious guys with groin injuries and warm up, as you would say, the so called Sioux flu.

Oh no, no, I remember it, I remember it. I mean, because I played in North Bay, right? And you, you knew if you were going to the Sioux, they always had like two or three or four guys. And you're sitting there thinking on the bus, oh no, who am I going to have to go against tonight? So I played in the Probert in the Probert era. So I remember back in those days and I'm thinking, oh, and I was a middleweight. I wasn't A heavyweight. So I know going into the Sioux, it's like, oh, you're. You're going to be in a tough game no matter, you know, no matter what year it is. A Sioux always had a tough. And the crowd. Sometimes it had a good crowd or sometimes it wasn't, but it was always loud. I mean, you go play in the Sioux, and it was always a loud crowd there at the games.

Well, it's a steel town. It's a proud. I mean, that's the only game in town. It's hard. I mean, when you pull in there, it's cold, and you get the steam coming off the steel mill. Like, I get it because when I played with Windsor, you know, it wasn't one of your favorite places to play. It wasn't like coming into Maple Leaf Gardens and your families there. It was a cold place. Usually the place was packed when we were playing. So we took a lot of pride with a lot of talent. But you said back then the game was a little bit different too, Mike. I mean, you played for Burt Templeton in North Bay as well, and North Bay was an intimidating building to come into as well. A lot of talented but tough teams. Right. So it sure was.

I'll tell you Bert Templeton's story really quick, and it's. I played for Bert and he was. We talked about him on one of our last shows. I talked to Todd Ellick we had on the show. And Bert Templeton was one of the toughest coaches I've ever had, and he liked the tough stuff. Let's be straight up. He loved when. When we would go at it. And I remember I was playing in the world Junior team. I wasn't yet playing for North Bay. So I started in Buffalo, and then Buffalo sent me to the World Junior team. And then from there I was going back. So I didn't even see Bert. And Bert had that team that had that big brawl. You remember that big brawl they had in. In Czechoslovakia?

Yeah, I remember Pat. Yeah, Pat Burns was the coach. Yeah, you're right.

So just. So just before that, we played Canada and they had guys like Flurry and Cinepass and me half. I mean, every guy. I think Brendan Shanahan chased on, every guy was a tough guy, and they were stealing all our pucks and warmups. So we had a lot of college guys like Brian Leach, and we didn't have anybody that played physical. So I told Bert, you know, just skating around, I said, I don't care. I'm going to whack somebody. I'M not proud of it. And I did. I ended up taking my. I did something because Phil Fleury came to the bench and he spared one of our guys. So then I went after him, and I got suspended for a couple games and never proud of it. But the funny thing was, Bert says you're never coming back to North Bay. You're done. I'm trading you tomorrow. In fact, I'm trading you to the Sioux. And I was fine with that, but I ended up going back to North Bay. But Bert says you're. I'm sending you to the Sioux. So back in those days, they. They would threaten you, like, if you're. They're going to send you to Sudbury of the soup. But those are great places to live. I would have said, hey, fine, I'll go to the Sue.

No, hey, I have to. The. The. The Sue. My. It's. It's my second home. My daughter lives up there. I've got twin grandkids that are about a year and a half old. I've been going up there since what. And I'll continue to go up there. I've got. It's my favorite OHL cities. I mean, you got your hotbeds in your kitchen. Has got, you know, the old arena, but those old Canadian cities and, you know, in the Ontario Hockey League, they're proud towns. And, you know, it's usually the number one game in town. Right? So that's so true. So.

So I want to. I want to bring this up. I really wanted to have you on the show because when I say stories to develop the mindset of a champion, it's not winning a championship, which he did. I mean, you won a championship, but I don't just bring guys on that made it. We have people that have gone through adversity. One of my good friends, a former OHL player, Bob Langley. Now, I don't know if you remember him, he was one of the toughest guys in hockey. He's not really known. Actually played in Flint a little bit. And I lived. I lived with him when I was 16 in Toronto. He played for Ottawa, and he played for Sudbury, played in the Western League. And he would talk to me, and he's in the coaching business like me. And he says, every story has a struggle or every good story, and you have a great story because you were like, there was an article about you that said, can't miss kid, and had your story. Every hockey teenager should understand. And the reason I like this, because every teenager thinks making it. Everyone has to make it, and not everybody makes it. You were one. I mean, the stats you had, you have better stats than some of the superstars in the NHL, let's face it.

Face it.

You, your stats of what you had in junior, I mean, every, every team back in those days would want a big, strong 6 foot 3 player. But you had a couple things going against you. The first thing is going to the Montreal Canadiens, which is if you would have gone to, let's say Buffalo or Toronto or a team like that, I think things would have maybe been different. But you go to Montreal, you ended up playing in the Miners, then you end up having a severe injury in camp. Can you, can you go through that a little bit? Tell us a little bit about the injury, Tell us what happened.

Yeah, sure. No, yeah. Going to Montreal, they were just coming out of their heyday. And I remember my first year in Montreal and if anyone knows anything about Montreal and the retired numbers, you get a number 50 and up back then because all the numbers are retired there from the rich hockey history. So my first training camp there as an 18 year old, I went into it just for the experience. My second year, I walked. Well, I had the big year. I walked into the dressing room and number 29 was waiting for me. And that was my number in junior. And the last player to wear that number was Ken Dryden for the hockey listeners with no hall of Famer. So I was at a position where, okay, this came off a big year. Montreal, ironically, was struggling at scoring goals, so I was the next person to come in and fill the shoes of a goal scorer. I had a couple injuries in camp, but I led the training camp in points, played in some exhibition games. I went back to Junior. That's the year probably that you're speaking of. If I wasn't with some different teams, I would have been playing as an 18, 19 year old. My last year in junior, I kind of hurt my ankle a little bit, which leads into some of the problems I had with my ankle. Are you going to jump in there for a second, Mike?

Well, no, no, no. I, I, I'm listening to your story, but I want people to know is like you were going to make it to the NHL. But I don't. Again, I'm not one to believe that, oh, you made it, you've made it in life and what you're doing now in your life. We're going to talk a little bit later is phenomenal. But you actually would have played in the NHL, but you had this injury that and I, we all Read up. We read about it. All of us knew about it. That said it, it slowed you down. Yeah, it took a step away. And in the NHL you could be a great scorer. You score 66 in junior, you're maybe scoring 15 or 20 in the NHL or maybe more. And, and you were destined to play in the league. You were. It's. Nothing's guaranteed, but you were guaranteed to play in the league and you had a major setback and you had to live with that and deal with that. And I want to go more into the adversity later, but that's all I was going to share with you, is you're a champion.

No, thank you for that. I appreciate that, Mike, and I think I am too. So. Yeah, it's. Yeah, I had a career ending injury. I mean, for a big guy, I had speed and the shot and I started slowing down a little bit. My ankle was a little bit sore and I had my Achilles went on me and I ripped the inside of my ligaments and it just never, it just never healed. I mean, I came back and played a little bit, but from. I was pretty well done. When I was 21 years old, Montreal had bought me out. I was just the never. I was never the same again. I was basically skating around on one leg, relying on hands. And anyone knows at that level there's just so many good players. I was going to hurt myself out there, but I just couldn't compete at that level anymore. So basically, with a snap of your fingers, my career was over 21. Yeah. Yeah.

And sometimes we think like, like hockey is everything. And, and nowadays I tell people, because it was different when we played. We didn't know. I mean, we, we. I read somewhere that you didn't have a lot of guidance along the way. You did a lot of things on your own and you fought through things and adversity on your own, but nobody would tell us, oh, if you don't make it, then, you know, what are you going, you're going to do? And that's a very tough struggle. I mean, that's something that you have to have the mindset like nowadays that, you know, the average hockey career, sports career is three to five years, or if it's the NFL, it could be two years. And you have your whole life ahead of you. And I, and I tell this story because it's all about stories. And I told this before and I went to this event in Charlotte, North Carolina. It was a professional sports athletes event. There was every boxer, football, hockey, soccer, every player that played Professional in the minors or somewhere. And every person would go up on stage and have to introduce himself because then there were a lot of big corporations there. So we get up on stage and you're supposed to say, hey, my name is Mike Hartman and I played for the New York Rangers. And you know, and I. And then, but then I thought about it. I went there a different time. And I went up there and I said, I'm Mike Hartman. I have a coaching business. I help people with their pain points. And somebody said to me, well, that's not you. I go, well, yes, it is. I'm not an athlete anymore. That's not who I am. So I know. What was the hardest struggle for you? Not making it to the show. Even though you belong, you should have made it. What was your biggest struggle going forward in your life?

Oh, basically, I mean, I'm an addictions counselor. I'm a social worker. I've been working in the field for 20 years because like you said, I went through my own struggles with alcohol and drug addiction. I went through two or three years of incredible pain. Now, looking back at it now, I probably could have maintained it a little bit better, but I didn't know who Graham Bonner was. I was Graham Bonner the hockey player, like what you said. And I was in active addiction for many, many years. That took me to places that, you know, that you wouldn't wish on anyone. I always knew inside that I was a good person person. But I was lost because the career is over. I mean, like I said growing up in Toronto since, you know, four or five years old and your dreams were playing in the NHL, then all of a sudden, one day, it's over. Who is Graham Bonner? What am I going to do after hockey, all these fears and our disease of addiction is very much fear based. I didn't know what I was going to do until I choose to. Chose to live because I was at a point where I thought I was going to die.

Yeah, I saw that. And I know you, I know you fought through it. I think you had. When I, if I read this correctly, it was a 10 year drought. It was 10. It was a 10. Maybe you hit rock bottom. And, and, and that's tough because, and I've learned, someone said this, that everybody takes a different path in life. Every, everybody goes down a different path. And, and we're all unique in our own way. But the strong point was, and I, and I had one of my teammates, former team closest friend, Stefan Matteo. He is free of alcohol. He went to Alcoholics Anonymous. And it took him a while to raise his hand and said, you know, I have a problem. I mean, he's. He, he said that. And soon as he said that, he, he was able to look himself in the mirror. He was able to deal with adversity, he was able to deal with life. But alcohol was his, his, his band aid and it was hurting him and he realized, he raised his hand. But you did the same thing. And share that with me. I know you went through alcoholics, which you should be proud of. Share that with us.

Yeah, no, it's. It was the toughest thing that I ever did in my life was getting clean. What is the most rewarding? Yeah, I went to aa. I went to NA because I'm an addict as well. We like to say alcohol is a drug, period, because it's so, so socially accepted. So I think for some people, it's so shame based and you feel like you're letting people down. And that was something that I thought I let my family down, I let my friends down because I did a lot of work with kids too, along the way. So I even thought I let the kids down. So being able to get up and say, hey, yeah, you know, my name's Graham and I'm an alcoholic, I'm a drug addict. It was almost a relief. The toughest thing ever to do. But I got busy. I went to treatment. I was in treatment 123 days because I had a lot of stuff I had to let go, you know, some personal stuff as well. It's not. Most people think it's just about stop using or drinking. I had some, some traumas through hockey, life, some, some things that went on for myself. And I had to find out who Graham Bonner was on the inside. So when you, you said earlier, Mike, that really sparked something with me. When you get up in front of the room today, I know who Graham Bonner is. But without going through NAAA and even, you know, working as addictions counselor, I mean, I'm a grandfather, I'm a social worker, I'm a father. I'm a good person. I mean, when I get up in the morning now, I want to be kind and gentle and try to be the best person that I can be. And I'm very, very proud of that. And that's something that I don't push on people. But if I can beam and shine, then I'm just doing the best that I can because I know who I am today and I'm okay with hockey because the first few years after, I couldn't watch hockey, but now I'm okay. You know.

You know what I think, too, going back, whether we admit it or not, I hate to say this. I don't want to offend anybody or coaches, but sometimes the coaches are the problem. I was talking to somebody the other day, and I'm not going to use any ohl names or any. I'm not talking about any input, anybody in particular. I'm the, I'm not the show that does it, but 100% politically correct. But it's not a really good thing when you're 16 years old, you move away from home, you're. You're on your own. Everybody's feeling your head that one day you'll play in the NHL. And listen, I was a day away from not doing anything. If I would have stuck in Belleville, I never would have been a hockey player. And this is all about you. But I have to share the story because sometimes the coaches, they don't know how to communicate with us because we all learn differently. Graham is one individual, one way, another person is a different person. And they used to say this. They used to say, hey, you go to Canada, you go play. You're a piece of meat. And I used to believe that. Now going back, I look at it and I said, that's all I was. It's, what can you do for me now instead of developing young minds? And Graham, let's face it, you were, I mean, you had all this because you had more skill than me. And I played some games. I was an average fourth fly and I could live with it. But you had more skill than me. You were big, strong guy. I remember, I mean, I remember hearing all about you. I remember you were taken in the third round and people thought you should have gone in the first round. And then it's like, and I use the analogy, like if you're drafted by the New York Yankees and you're a shortstop back in the day, good luck. And Derek. Yeah, Derek. Yeah. Derek Jeter was there 20 plus years and how are you going to make it as a backup? And it's. Sometimes it's. It's a lucky break. But I, I know, I know it's rewarding what you're doing and like, how rewarding is it now, leading others? And after you went through the time before, tell me how it is, how rewarding is it for you now, helping people?

You get little nuggets every once in a while. Mike, a guy sent me an email actually last week through Our CEO who passed it on to me.

And.

You know, you get little messages, say, hello, thank you. I've got my family back. I'm back with my relationship, back with my father. And. But ironically, one of the ones I got last week was, tell the guys in treatment, you can do it. But especially give the devil horns of rock and roll to Graham. I was his counselor four years ago, so that's a compliment, because a relationship that I built with somebody four years ago, there's clients that I bump into. I was in Niagara Falls a year ago, and a guy came up with his family, and he had this two children with him, and he said, this is Graham. Do you remember when daddy had to go to that special school? This was his teacher. I was in Shoppers Drug Mart one day, and I hadn't seen a client in 10 years. And he came up, and I gave him a homework assignment on writing a letter to his son, who him. And they were estranged. And in his letter, he had said that he wanted to take his son to an Our Lady Peace concert in the summertime. And he said, hey, Graham, that assignment that you gave me, I finally got to go to that concert with my son. I get, you know, the hair in your arms, stand up. Stuff like that is golden, and that's better.

My hair is standing up right now, Graham. I said, I'm getting chills. I love that. I love that stuff. I love hearing this.

Yeah. No, so. I mean, there's so many stories like that. But we also get the tragedies, too, Mike. Like, we get the families that phone and say, thank you for giving our son back, or thank you for giving our daughter back. But so and so passed away. But you gave him six months back to us. So you get the tragedies, but you get a lot of nuggets. And that's better than scoring any goal in the NHL, you know, hoisting the Stanley Cup. You're putting a gold medal, a world gold medal around your neck. That's who Graham is today. And that's what inspires me to be a good boyfriend, a good grandfather, a good son. And like I said earlier, being kind and gentle and trying to be the best person that I can be. As cheesy and corny as it is, that's who I am today, and I'm cool with it, man. Right?

It's not. It's not cheesy and corny. In fact, I love it because a lot of times. And I've said this so many times with a lot of different people because I have hockey players reaching out to me in the coaching business. And I have a lot of people telling me, hey, I have different things going on. And a lot of us, we all been through it. We have these identity crisis, like, in our life. It's like we start off as a young kid and we. The whole thing is why I want to play in the ohl, Then you get to the ohl, and I want to play in the NHL, and. But it ends quick. And I have friends that. That played in the minors, friends that were finished in the ohl, and they. They never went on. But it's what you do ongoing in your life. It's. It's taking some of what we've learned. Because I believe, Graham, that hockey was the biggest education I've ever had. And I went back to school and I got a degree. Back then it was correspondence school. But it's such an education, hockey, because we learn so much from. From so many different people. You learn what to do, not to do. And we all go through it. We go through these ups and downs.

Yeah, most definitely. I mean, I went back to school when I turned 50. I'm 54 now. I went back to school in 2000 to enable me to continue what I'm doing in my profession, which were goals that were. I'm very, very proud of, because I was completely terrified of going back to school. But when you think back to junior days, you know, I spent a little bit of time with the Olympic team, my training camps in Montreal. There's so many friendships that you build, and especially with this crazy world that we're living into. I think I've talked to more people in the last three months that I haven't spoken to in 20. People are reaching out. And those are all life lessons, lived experiences. I remember in the Sioux talking about, you know, building fine young men. Whenever we went out to eat somewhere, we were given a dollar bill and we were to tip the waitress every place that we went. And that was Terry CRISP and Sam McMaster's way of developing skills for us as young men. And people would come out, managers would come out and say, we've had hockey teams come in here, and this is the. The best behaved group of athletes that we come in. Of course, you had to wear a suit and tie. I always had a little bit long hair, so I had a knock about that back then. But. But those are life skills and things that you're taught about being a good person. So I. I totally feel what you're or feel what you're saying, mike, we.

Do grow up early. There were some things about Junior I didn't really agree with, like initiation. Some of the initiation stuff that never made sense to me. Like in the ohl I remember they poured French fries out on a table of McDonald's and the guy had to eat them there. And some of that stuff, I. I didn't get it. Maybe I. Maybe I'm weird. You know, people used to think I was weird. I was a guy that didn't drink much or not didn't drink at all. And I was a little bit different. I was the oddball. But I never understood these certain things that had nothing to do with the game of hockey or I don't. I believe in initiation. Like, initiation could be maybe going up and doing something that's not, that's not wrong. You know, there's some. I don't mean shaving and all that stuff. I just wasn't one that believed in that. And I don't know, that's just not my style.

Well, it was a different time, you know, not to minimize or justify it because I do a lot of trauma work with, with men. And I can see now some of the things that went on back then, how it could affected people along the way, because a lot of things that you just blew off back then were fun. I'm hearing stories about things that happen to young men along the way, and I take that with a lot of pride because some of the things that happened back then, a lot of those guys could have been affected about, because I'm learning about that now. As people tell me about traumatic events along the way, I've moved on from it. I'm not saying that, that it was bad or good. It was part of the game back then. And should some things change? Yeah, they should change. And I think they are changing. And did I agree with, with some of it? No, some of it was pretty bad. Some of it was fun though, too. But I do remember initiating in, in Montreal where Bob Gainey invited me out for a beer one day as a 19 year old. And if that's initiation, that's first class. And that was the Montreal Canadiens and Bob Gainey. So there should be more stuff like that.

See, those are experiences you'll never forget being around Bob Gainey. So just because you didn't play a game, I'm not trying to sugarcoat this just because you didn't play a league game. I mean, in my eyes, you made it. You went to the Montreal Canadiens camp, you played against some of the, the Heroes in Montreal. I used to get chills going to Montreal. I went to Montreal as a kid. It was a. It was a dream always to be a Montreal Canadian, actually. And I was a kid, I went to the Forum at nine years old and. But in my eyes, Graham, you're a hero because you're helping people. You're helping people, especially in this time, you're helping families. You mentioned it earlier. Your way of giving back says a lot about the character and the person you are. So I know you have a lot to be proud of. I will always remember you as the guy for hockey standards, as a guy that scored more goals. Now, I gotta think here. I'm. I'm okay in math, but I don't think I scored sick. I scored 30. I don't know if I scored 66 goals in my junior career. 30, 40, 50, 65, maybe close in three years, but, yeah, that's all good.

Everybody, I mean, that's one of the things about team sports. Everybody brought something to the table, Mike. So it's. And it's a timing thing, sports. That's the way it is. Like, I appreciate the compliments, and I'm very humbled, but as we know, in a sports game, sports team, it is a team. And different people bring different things to the table. That was my job. My job was to score goals and skate up and down the wing, speed, shot, score goals. That's what Graham Bonner had to do. Mike Hartman had to go stir things up and put the puck in the net. And that was your role. I mean, we all had different roles. Like a car, you need wheels, you need a tire, you know, you got to change the oil. There you go. Now we got a Ferrari. We'll put it together. We're a pretty good team, Mike. There you go.

I, you know what? I, I can you give us one takeaway, some advice that you can give to us out there, especially in this tough time that we're going through right now. There's a lot of us. I, I heard it on tv. I don't remember who said it. And they mentioned that this time is. Is. Is one of the most stressful times. Not only are you with the same person next to the same person every day, but people losing their jobs, people struggling, they don't know where the next dollar's coming from. The unemployment rate is higher than it's ever been. Is there any bit of advice you can give to us right now and how to handle this to the best we can?

I can only talk from my own Experience, Mike. And it's when I get up in the morning, I try to be kind and gentle and be the best person that I can be. I love to laugh. I'm a big kid. Live, love, laugh. Be kind to the person beside you. There's so much division right now with people's thoughts. I think if we do a little bit more listening and don't lose the faith. I mean, this is our world war that's going on right now. Many of us are very, very fortunate. You know, our grand. My uncles and grandparents and family fought in wars. This is our world war. I still think that we can. When we come out of this, we're going to be better for it. I don't know when the end is going to be, but just get up and be kind to yourself. And if you're kind to yourself and love yourself, you can love people around you.

That's great. That's great advice, and I'm going to take that advice. And somebody used to. You know, somebody said to me once, well, things happen for a reason. The old cliche. And maybe the world needed a break. You know, it hasn't been quiet with all the other things going on. I don't want to get into that political stuff, but it's been a lot of noise, but maybe. And there's been a lot of unfortunate deaths. And I know of a couple which. Which touches the hearts and the families, and I'm mindful of all the families, and I'm also mindful with everything else that's going on in the world. But, Graham, it was great to have you on the show. I greatly appreciated you doing this, and your message is great, and everybody loves what you're doing. I love what you're doing, and best of luck to you.

It was my pleasure. And thank you very much. Mike, you got a gift. So I'm very humbled by the invitation. You have a great day.

You, too, Graham.

Okay.