Greg Gilbert-Stanley Cup Champion

Mike Hartman, performance mindset strategist. This is Develop the Mindset of a Champion with former Stanley cup champion Mike Hartman. Welcome to Develop the mindset of a Champion. My guest today is Greg Gilbert. Greg played 16 seasons in the National Hockey League. He played over 800 games in the league. He played with the New York Islanders, the Chicago Blackhawks, the New York Rangers, the St. Louis Blues. He's a three time Stanley cup champion with the New York Islanders in 1982 and 83 and then with the New York Rangers in 1994. Greg was also an assistant coach with the Calgary Flames. At one time he was a head coach in the National Hockey League with the Calgary Flames. Greg, it's great to have you here with us today.

Well, Mike, thanks very much for having me. Great to see you.

So we're just, you know, you just want to share your journey to the National Hockey League. You know, you started off as a youth in the Toronto area. Just fast forward today, people would love to share, you know, please share your story with us.

Yeah, no, I was actually fortunate to play major junior in the, in the old OHL in Toronto for the Marlboros. And so I was able to stay at home, played my three years there, obviously was drafted in the fourth round and the fifth pick, I believe by Islanders back in, I don't know, 79 or 80, finished up my junior career and then went down and, you know, went to training camp with the Islanders. Actually started in Springfield or not Springfield, I'm sorry, in Indianapolis in the old Central League. And there's a few of us there, Kelly, Rudy and Dave Simpson and Monty Trache, a few of us there that made the step up to the big team. But I played about 27 games down there to start the season and then from then I was called up and you know, played the rest of my, my years, I believe, outside of two. I think after I blew my knee out, I went to rehab in Springfield, but the rest of the years were in the National League. And the funny thing was, you know, you're drafted by the Islanders and they've already won two cups and you're looking at their lineup and you're going, I'm not going to have any chance to break that one. So I mean, there you looked at their left side with Tonali and Gillies and Bourne and Anders Kaller, I mean, you go right down the list. I'm going, I don't know about this, but they made room. They wanted to make some changes, bring some younger blood in. And I was very Fortunate to get onto that team. And the one thing that I say to everybody, it was a tough team to crack, but the leadership there and the camaraderie and the way the older players looked after the younger players and, you know, you think, you know about winning and learning how to win, but until you get to a team that has one and their habits, you know, the practice habits, everything has to be done full speed and the execution has to be 100% and they carry that to the games. And, you know, the preparation for the games, you know, they'd have fun in the dressing room, but once they walk through that door to go to the ice, it was game face on. And obviously their, their history and their record speaks for itself. But a lot of great players, a lot of great people, and I was very fortunate as a young player to be able to cut the line up there.

Yeah, what a great opportunity. I mean, Greg, like I knew you as everywhere you played, you were a very smart player, a very heady player, strong on the boards, did all the little things. Well, the little things in details, you were known as a guy that, you know, took everything serious, came prepared. Who helped you in this development along the way. Because I know in junior, your last year, you scored 41 goals for the Toronto Marlies. So you go 41 goals and then your role shifts. How did that happen?

Well, it's, it's, you know, I, I could score. I took a lot of pride in defense and even in junior, I mean, I won an award as the best defensive forward there in major junior on the Terra league. So, you know, I took pride in playing well at both ends. And I think the coach that I had in minor hockey, Joe Parody, really put the demands on us as a team to play well offensively and defensively. But, you know, I could score goals, there's no question about that. I went to, you know, when I first turned pro, I mean, I think I had 27 points in the first 24 games in Indianapolis before I was called up. And then, you know, I scored 31 playing with Boston Trots. And I think I started with Brent Sutter and Dwayne, and then after Christmas, I think it was my second year, you know, ended up playing with Boston Trots and got my 31 there. So unfortunately, the next year is when I blew my NEO and had to have a complete reconstruction. Yeah, acl, mcl. So I had the. It's not the four month return anymore, it's the nine months. And I missed a lot of hockey going through that process. And it would have been nice to reach 9001000 games, but I just missed too much hockey with injuries through my career. But when I came back, you know, I. I was playing well. I had, I think nine or 10 points in 10 games, and then I was told I was coming back too fast. And then from then on, I pretty much just saw third and fourth line duty and had to. Had to understand what my role was going to be and that it had changed and how I was going to adapt to it. So, you know, you. You go to work every day, you. You talk to people, the older players, you know, your teammates, and you get a lot of good information and insight from them and, and your coaching staff, too. And, you know, I had to make a decision that if I was going to be the best at the role that I was going to be put into, I better start really focusing on that aspect of the game. Game. And from then on, it was, you know, playing against the team's top lines and shutting them down and, you know, playing well in the penalty kill. Very seldom did I see power play time. But, you know, it's one of those decisions as an athlete you have to make. It's either you're going to make that and become the best player in that situation, or your career could be shortened and you're moving on in life. So, you know, I made that conscious effort to be the best. You know, I guess you want to call it grinder or role players. I could. And things worked out pretty well.

You know what? I have this program called Develop the Mindset of a Champion. And you've experienced a lot being around some great championship teams. And I want you to take through us that championship year. But I remember watching it might have been Hockey Night in Canada when I was a kid, and they talk about the Edmonton Oilers when they played the New York Islanders. The first time they learned from the Islanders, when they went by the locker room and the door was open and those guys just finished the game. And I. Gres, Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Lowe, those guys are leaving the building. And the Islander guys weren't really celebrating. They were all on the tables with black eyes, you know, broken noses, ice bags. Yeah. So maybe explain, like, what does it take to be a champion? Because I don't understand. People think, oh, wow, they watch the Islanders, but they don't really know the inside of really what it takes to be a champion.

Well, and like I said earlier, Mike, you know, you think as a young player, you know how to win. But until I got to the island and saw the way these guys prepared on and off the ice. I mean, they had their fun just like everybody else. But when it came down to preparing for a game, whether it's the morning skate or it's the practice before, you know, there's, there's the execution part of it and the demands that each player put on each player in that dressing room that, you know, whenever you come to practice, you better not be taking a day off, because the execution has to be there. And the better you can execute and practice at a high tempo, the better you're going to be able to perform in the games. And that's what the islanders were. But the, the other side of it was, you know, the, the wear and tear that the bodies go through through the course of an 80 game season. I think it was 80 games back then at that time, or 78. You know, the wear and tear. I mean, you had guys like Dave Langevin, who was pretty much playing with no, no ligaments in his knees, and the work, the extra work he had to put in and the ice time after the games and prior to the games, you know, icing his joints, you know, just, just to go to battle. And if you had to block shots, you block shots. If you had to take hits to make play, you take hit to make play. And I think that's what the Oilers were seeing whenever they walked by that dressing room, you know, after that, that third cup or the fourth cup, I'm sorry, was, you know, there's guys that have been through it before. They were gonna, we were gonna have our fun, there's no question about it. But we. Let's tend to the bodies first after it. And I think that's what Edmonton really learned is the price that you have to pay physically and emotionally to get to that, that final game and walk away with the, the silverware. And obviously they did that the next year. You know, the tickets in five games, I believe it was at Edmonton. So it's, it's. It's a long road, as you know, Mike, going through the battles night in, night out, the, the pain, the aches, the bumps and, and what you have to play through. And obviously, if you have serious injuries, you can't, you can't really perform. You don't want to be a liability into the team. So. But the little things, you know, you learn to put them out of your, out of your head at the back of your, you know, put them in the back of your mind and you don't even think about them. And you don't even feel about them, especially when you get on that ice to play the game. And that's what the Islanders were all about. They sacrificed for each other. The work they put in for each other was for that ultimate goal, and they won it four times in a row.

Yeah, so it's a. You might get a kick out of this. And in 1986, I was. Or 87, I was fortunate enough to play with Clark Gillies, the Sleeping Bear. I was with Clark. We were roommates. But I told him when I was a kid, I wore number nine and I played for the House Legal Park Islanders. And I said to him, I go, boy, I'm a. You were a hero of mine growing up. And he was such a gentleman. We played on the same line. Unfortunately, he had to play on my line at the end of his career in the fourth line in Buffalo. But he was such a gentleman, and I would ask him just questions all the time, and he's such a funny guy, you know, One day we had the suites in Montreal, so I was on one end of the room and he was on the other, and his Stanley cup ring with the Islanders was sitting. We were playing in Montreal, was sitting on the. On the corner of the sink, and I said, I'm not even going to touch it. My luck, I'm going to pick it up, drop it, it's going to go down the drain. But he was such a great guy. Clark was such a fantastic guy. So what a great, great memory for me with Clarkey. Now take me to the Chicago Blackhawks years. I know you played for Mike. Mike Keenan.

Yes.

Tell me a little bit about the Chicago Blackhawk years and how did that end up for you?

Well, it was great. I mean, there was coming to a point in, in the island where they weren't really going through. I, I don't know whether you'd want to call it a rebuild, but anyway, there's some younger players coming in that they were trying to give the advantage to with ice time. And, you know, I could see my, my, my role dwindling and slowly fading away there. So, you know, I didn't want to end my career in that situation. And obviously the Islanders traded me to Chicago. I believe it's for a fifth round pick. But going there to play under Mike was. I don't want to say it was culture shock because. Because Al Arbour was a very demanding coach, but he wasn't a yeller and screamer. You never wanted to hear Al scream, so. But he had his way of getting his point across. Whereas Mike was, you know, his reputation preceded him. I mean, you know, the, the punishing practices he put, put teams through and players through. And, you know, his demands were very high. And, and Mike was. I think he's got his PhD in psychology, sports psychology. And it's, you can see it. I mean, he tried to get a rise or a reaction from you, whether it was from positive reinforcement or from negative reinforcement, which is like yelling and screaming and what have you or benching you or what have you. But he always pushed players to be better than they thought they could be. And that's the one thing I noticed in Chicago my first year there. I believe we just made the playoffs in the last game of the season. I think we went in with 69 points or something to beat Toronto. And then we went to the conference finals. You know, we lost it to. I think it was Calgary that year who went on to beat Montreal in the Stanley Cup. And, you know, we had a good run and things started to come together quickly and, and you know, I was getting used again. I was getting ice time. I've always believed that you have to earn your ice time, and that's always been a part of my makeup. But, you know, you work hard, you pay the price, you do little things well. That's what Mike wants to see. And what part of, of the puzzle or what piece of the puzzle is this player that we just brought in? And you know, I got there and I was playing a little bit with Laramson Savvy, who, which was their number one, and you know, some other lines. And ultimately I ended up playing, I think, with Derek Graham and Troy Murray, which I love playing with those guys because, you know, they, we're all kind of similar. You know, Dirk could score, Troy could score. I didn't score that much in Chicago, but it was just one of those lines where the chemistry was there. You always knew where the other players on your line were going to be defensively and offensively. So things went well in Chicago. You know, we went to the finals, got swept. I think it was 91 or 92 by Pittsburgh, and that was. That was probably the biggest disappointment. We had a heck of a hockey club. We had them down by two in Game 1 in Pittsburgh, and then they came back to tie it, I believe winning it overtime. And from then it was just one of those things. They got the ball rolling and we couldn't slow it down and they found a way to win it in four. But that was probably the biggest disappointment of not being Able to accomplish that in Chicago and getting that close. We went to. While in the five years I was there, three, three conference finals and one standard. Yeah, three conference files and one Stanley cup final. So it was, it was a good run. It was tough. When Mike left, Darryl Sutter took over. So Daryl was starting to bring his guys in again. And then I ended up signing as a free agent at the end of my contract with the Rangers.

Yeah, that's what I'll talk with you about. One thing about Chicago, though, there was not a better building to play in, even on a Sunday night, Saturday. So I, you know, you dress down in the dungeon and you're going up the steps and you know, number one, you're playing against Mike Keenan. And number two, you know, Buffalo had a physical team back in those days and you knew you're in for a game no matter what because, you know, you have Grimson there, they had Peluso, they had Manson on defense. And a guy like me, I'm thinking, boy, I just want to get out of here alive tonight. We want to win the game. I want to get out of here alive. But. But there's something I want to share with you.

So.

So you come to the Rangers in 1993, you sign as a free agent. And I'll never forget this. People ask me, what was Mike Keenan like? And I said, I love Mike Keenan, I love him to this day. We have great conversations, but he always demanded the best out of you from day one. Getting our mindset in a point. And I'm sure you remember this. It was the first week of training camp. We were ready to go to London, England for a neutral site game. He took it. He took the guys, there was 23 of us, took us to a boardroom and showed us. He didn't say a word. He said, everybody sit down. And he turned on the New York Mets and the Yankees, I think, winning a World Series in New York and what it was like to win in New York with the tick or take parade. Then he went around the room and he said, okay, mess, I see you scoring in game seven of the Stanley Cup. Rick. Mike Richter, you're going to be our top goalie. Adam Graves, you are. You're going to have the best year scoring of your career. Mike Hartman, I don't know what we're going to do with you yet. No, I think he said, you'll have your role. But the point is he had a pre calculated what he wanted to do with everybody else. And how did Mike impact you? Because I Know, you played with him in three different places. You played in Chicago, New York, St. Louis. So how did he impact you as a player?

Well, you know, the demands were, you know, I, I never really minded getting yelled at. I mean, you know, if I make mistakes, I expect to be held accountable for them. But I knew what Mike wanted and one of my, my assets or attributes was my work ethic. And, and I never had a problem with Mike regarding the work ethic, so. But he pushed. Oh, Shahar, you know, some of the gates he put us through, man, I had a hard time getting through them and. But it was just something that he's thinking in the back of his mind. You know, these guys, I'm going to see who can push through it and, you know, what needs to be done. So you always knew that you had a chance to win with Mike because he pushed his players so hard and, and he pushed them so hard. The players supported each other even, even more than some other cities that had other coaches because, you know, whenever Mike's hard on the guy, he's hard on the guy. So you've got 19 or 20 other guys there trying to support him, build them back up again, and then bring him back into the fold, which he never left. But yeah, I mean, you know, Mike was, was a guy that would push you and game situations the same thing. He had no problems with moving guys around if they weren't performing. And, you know, I think Mike saw what I could do in those situations that I came from in the island with, you know, shutting down opposition, dock lines and penalty killing and, and all those little things. And I think that's what, what Mike liked about me was the details of my game.

Well, you knew what you were going to get. Gibby is I played with you the year we won. You always knew what you were going to get and I'm going to share. So when I, the year in the Rangers, people asked me what was the leadership like a Mark Messi, I said, well, he's the best leader I ever have. But we also had Kevin, Kevin Lowe, we had McTavish, Bukaboom, Braves, Tekken, and Glen Anderson. And we had yourself. You won a Stanley Cup. And before I go on, I just saw it come through. Stephon Matteo said, I caught part of it because we're getting these different questions coming through. And you are never mentioned much because that was like an all star team and nobody really doesn't mention, hey, we had Gibby. But I know you helped step out a lot. I know you helped even Myself out there was nights I wasn't going to dress, he would pull us aside. You were such a great team guy and a great person. You still are, of course. And. And that's one thing that Stefan and I, we talked about. It just came through on the message that you. You're not. You don't really get rewarded for that because we had all those other guys that won championships and they're more in the limelight, but really they didn't do a lot of talking about you. And that's something that was greatly appreciated.

Well, first and foremost, thanks very much for the kind words, Mike. And. And, you know, I had fun playing with stuff in both the city, Chicago and the Rangers, but, you know, notoriety didn't really bother me. I like anonymity, to be quite honest with you. I just going to go about my job and do it, whatever, as long as I have the respect of my teammates, that they understand what my role is and that I'm going to do it to the best of my abilities every night. You know, that's. That's my gratification. That's. That's all that matters to me. And as for, you know, taking you aside or other guys who weren't playing aside, I've been through it and I know what it feels like to not have that opportunity to dress, because that's our livelihood, that's our passion, is to be out there and play. And when it's taken away from you, it's a tough thing. And it wasn't so much consoling. It was just letting the players know that you're still a part of this. And even though you're not in tonight, there's going to come a time where you are and you're going to get the job done. We know it. But it's a tough thing to go through. And it's. It's not. Humiliating isn't the word. It's just. It's disappointing, you know, especially with the player. But I've been there, I've done that. I know what the feelings are inside the players and what needs to be said. And I just tried to help out in any way I could in those situations.

Well, you know, you said something to me at the 25th anniversary and it stood out. When I left, we sat there. I don't know if you remember, we were sitting at the end of the table and you said, there isn't a day goes by where you don't look at your championship rings or think about it or have memories. Is that something you could share with us that you do on a daily basis. It's something that gives you a great memory.

Yeah. Well, you know what it was. It was a great year, Mike. I mean, we had a great dressroom, great people, training staff, coaching staff. You know, we lost Mike Vogues, and Mike passed away, God bless him. What a great person and fit right in with. With the team. I mean, the personalities we had, you know, the. The egos we had, the. The confidence we had, and then the other guys that were the stabilizers, I guess you want to say. But. Yeah, I mean, there isn't a day goes by where it doesn't pop into my head that. That, you know, I was fortunate to be a part of that. That team and organization for that year. But also the Islanders. I remember those. And, you know, my kids were small, so we're. We're at the parade, they're sitting on the float. And I'm sure you got great memories of that, too, so. Yeah, yeah, there's. There's to remember about that year and, you know, not to keep going on, but the team was. It was one of those teams where everybody knew what the role was and, you know, everybody went out there. You had that feeling in the dressing room that every night you had a chance to win. And we went through our bumps in the road that season, there's no question about it. But every night you knew that everybody that was in that dressing room knew exactly what the role was, how they had to perform, and what the little things they had to do for us to be successful last night or that night, right from the goaltending on out to the forwards. And I'll tell you that that's a comforting feeling, as you know, that you step on the ice and everybody's going to get the job done.

Yeah, sure was a great year. Something I'll never forget. And I don't. I never had. I just. I didn't have a lot of, like, pictures, and I had the little Stanley cup and I had a jersey, but in a box. I had. This was put away, and I forgot my kids were going through my stuff, so. And my son says, what is this? It was the key that Rudy Giuliani gave us to the city. And I go, wow. And I said, hey, this is yours. Keep it, and put it away. I literally forgot about it. But some of those memories were unbelievable. So you worked your way into a head coaching. You were an assistant coach and then a head coach in the NHL. What was some of those challenges of coaching at that level?

Well, I Went from playing in 96 to take over the head job in Worcester, Worcester Ice cats, which is St. Louis's farm team. And that was the last team that I played for. So I was offered the job and the position I took. It was there for four years and then met with Craig Button. He was interested in bringing me in as part of Don Hayes coaching staff. And Donnie was a great coach and still is a great coach. I believe he's still coaching out in the Western League, but was there as an assistant. It was a tough year. We had kind of had a mishmash of the team. We had some skill, we had some size. The one thing that of the two and a half years that I did coach there, we were young, very young. I mean, we had againla. It was. Jerome's an outstanding person and was an outstanding player and just a pure goal scorer and a powerful player and we were trying to figure ways to. To use him. But under Donnie it was tough. I mean, we. We had some bumps in a row. We had some good times. But I took over from Donnie at the end of that year. The first, first year that I was there, I was hesitant to do it because it's not part of the process that I wanted to go through. I wanted to be an assistant for a few years to see what the league was about. And then, you know, I think I was asked three or four times to take over and I turned it down. I didn't want it because Donnie was. He was doing a good job and with the crew that we had. And no disrespect to the players, but we were young and building and teaching young players in the National League when you're facing older teams is a tough thing. So I took over from Donnie. We finished the year out. The next year we got off to the best start in. In Flames history. But you knew deep down that we weren't able to. We weren't going to be able to maintain it. You know, the, the tempo, the speed was going to get caught up with with the younger players we had. We had some players that had great years. I think Jerome scored 52 that year and that's the highest he's ever scored. And we had him with Conroy, Craig Conroy who I coached in Worcester, and also Dean McCammon who I played with in Chicago. But it was, it was a struggle because it was a young team and going through, you know, the downs in that season was. Was probably the toughest thing that I've ever gone through as a coach. You know, not not as a player, but as. As a coach. And you're trying to keep everybody up. You're trying to keep the demands there so that they don't start to feel sorry for themselves. But we just didn't have enough. We lost some key players, some, Some. Some veteran players to injury. That really hurt our lineup. And we had to use some younger players in situations they just weren't ready for. And it took its toll on us. We weren't able to maintain the pace, didn't make the playoffs, and then I was fired. I don't know, December, early December, the following season. So it is what it is. And then. But you learn from those lessons and you move on. And, you know, next year I signed on in Mississauga with the Ice Cats or Ice Dogs in the Ontario Major Junior League, and we went to the finals and against Guelph, and Guelph went to the Memorial Cup. But, you know, I had some great kids, and I just love. I still have the passion. I just love coaching. I love teaching people and helping them become better players than they think they can.

I'm not surprised. Rick Dudley told me this once. I said, well, I like to learn from everybody. In fact, Bob Hartley gave me as a coaching book. And I talked to Scotty Bowman. I'll share that. And I talked to Rick Dudley, and he said one of the hardest things was for him is when you. You could tell one guy something, but if you tell the other guy the same thing, you might break that guy. And that was the hardest thing. He said you had to be very careful what you said because you're managing 23 different personalities.

Oh, absolutely, Mike. And that's the 23 different buttons there to push. And some players respond to, I want to say, well, negative reinforcement. I mean, you hold them account will be tougher on them. Some players respond to that, and others just can't handle it. And like you said, they do break. And, you know, you have that separation as individuals, but then you also have that separation within the dressing room of the style of player or type of player. You know, your skill guys, they. They don't want. They don't always want to be held accountable. You know, they want to be able to get in the way, cutting corners, corners and things like that. Whereas your, you know, your, your. Your grinders or your role players, you hold them accountable to the details because that's the only thing that's keeping them in that dressing room and on the ice and being a part of the team. So there's so many dynamics in A dressing room, right from the individuals to. To small groups to, you know, style of player to, you know, situational, you know, examples that you use them in, whether it's power play, penalty killer, what have you. But early. Early as a coach in each. Each season, unless you've had a team returning, one of the biggest things is to really feel out each player and each individual and each group and see what. How you can best associate with them and build that relationship and communication line with them so that they'll understand what your expectations are, but within the boundaries that that type of player needs to be communicated with.

That's great. And again, I asked different coaches, and Scotty Bowman once told me this, and it kind of blew me away. He says, mike, there was. There's four games being played. And I said, four games. I looked at him with, like, you know, like, what are you talking about? He said, well, the first game is the one the fans see, so they'll be up at top and a power play, and they'll yell, shoot, Shoot. And they're not really. They're great fans. They have passion for the game, but they don't really. You're not educated. And then there's a game that the families see, your parents, they think you're the greatest and you should be out there all the time and play. And then there's a game that the player sees from the bench. Why am I not killing penalties? I should be playing. I'm playing four minutes a night. I should be playing 20 minutes a night. I'm as good as him. And then there's a game that the coach sees, and you see a whole different game because the video doesn't lie. You're watching things. There's assistant coaches, everybody's taking notes, and you really have an eye of what's going on. So, you know, I think players have to realize that sometimes that, you know, all of us think we should be playing more than we should. So I have a couple questions that came in. Greg, can you speak? Addressing being a talented player and making adjustments mentally to being a role player?

Yeah, you know, again, I was coming off a knee injury, and I was feeling. Feeling good. I mean, everything was back to normal. It felt like. And, you know, I was up to speed up to Tampa. I was putting up some points in my early return with the Islanders. But then, you know, things change and that. That's the hardest. I think that's probably one of the toughest things I had to face throughout my whole career playing the game was. Was having to make that decision, seeing that I wasn't going to get that opportunity on, on the top two, but my, my life and my role was going to be on the bottom two lines, which to me I had to accept and I had to move on. And was it easy? No. But my focus had to be on not giving up on the offensive side. But my first priority was to shut down top people. And in practice, when you're scrimmaging against Tross and Boss and guys like that and you're trying to shut them down and learn how to play well defensively so that you can be used against opposition teams, top lines and become that kind of weapon and if you can neutralize opposition top, top lines with, with good solid play. And you know, my mentality after I accepted that, that that role of that situation was, you know, what if, if we do our jobs defensively, we're going to spend more time in the offensive zone because that, that, that opposition line is not going to get into ours. And that's exactly what happened. And I think that helped me get through it because we, we had a lot of scoring chances all the years that I played on those bottom two lines because we played so well defensively. And when the other team doesn't have the puck and we do, that's when the fun starts. Yeah.

So I have one more. The stars win games. The role players win championships. A hockey dad out of the Carolinas, James Parisi. So that's true. But it takes, it takes everybody to win a, win a championship.

Oh, absolutely. It's a puzzle. And every piece of the puzzle is important. I mean, you can't, you can't complete a winning season or complete a puzzle if there's some pieces missing. And you know, the role players do their job. They understand what, what their, their role is. The scorers, the, the goalies, the top end players understand what their role and the situations they're going to be used in and the amount of time that they're going to be on the ice to use those abilities. And it is what it is. You accept your role, you play it to the best of your abilities and, and you have to have in the back of your mind that there's, you know, 18, 19 other guys on that bench that are, are counting on you to get the job done and do your job. And that's what you championship teams do. They're, you know, as we remember Mike in 94, there was never a question of a guy not pulling his load on that bench and that's what creates championship teams. And championship atmospheres and winning mentalities is everybody knows that everybody's in, in for the long haul and in the boat, rowing the same way.

And that's so true. Hey, Greg, it was amazing having you. I always enjoy seeing. Seeing you spending our time together. And I think you gave a lot of great, insightful information. And thanks for doing this.

Hey, Hardy, you know what? Thanks so much for getting in touch with me, and it's great to see you and seeing you doing well. And we'll keep in touch for sure. Thanks again.

Absolutely.