How Former NHL Player Alan May Had The Mindset To Never Give Up!

Welcome to the Mike Hartman Show. Mike is a performance coach and former Stanley cup champion with the New York Rangers. Topics on this show are focused around stories, mindset and champions. Mike will also go into details about helping you with your pain points and struggles and finding motivational solutions on how to have the mindset of a champion. Now, here's your host, Mike Hartman.

Welcome to another episode today. I'm very happy to have my good friend and guest Alan May on the show. Alan, it's so great to have you here today.

Hey, Mike, thanks for having me. Great to be with you.

You know, the great part is we go way back and I remember just, I, I want you to share your story in a second. But we go back to the time where I really respected you, when, when, you know, you played, you had your hockey career, you were playing for Washington. I think you and I got into it and we didn't really know each other well, but we ended up talking after the game.

Well, you know why we talked is that I told someone this story today when I knew that I was going to be doing your show is that we had the same agent, Ron Seltzer. And he always used to tell me great things about you. And I know that the times that we fought, I always felt like I usually had a killer instinct in me and, you know, was an undersized guy kind of like yourself. Weight wise, I was an undersized guy. And, you know, you always tried to bite off more than you could chew and prove people wrong. And, you know, so when I, I didn't feel like fighting you because Ronnie had told me all these great things about you, how hard it had been for you and how hard your road was to get to the National Hockey League and what you had to get through and at the age you did it. So I always felt like there was a natural bond there. And of course, when we finally did get the talk, we ended up becoming great friends all these years.

Yeah, and we'll get into that too, a little bit. But that's so true. You know, Ronnie said the same thing about you. He goes, you guys are alike. I only difference is alike. I said, this guy's got a longer reach. He's over six foot. I think you're six foot one, six foot two, and he throws them really hard. And, you know, and you have that reputation. But yeah, Ronnie, Ronnie's a fantastic guy. You know, I stay in contact with Ron every now and then. So that's exactly, that's exactly how it happened. So I want to talk about Your journey a little bit. Because sometimes, you know, the NHL draft just, just went on and there was kids that weren't drafted. And I, I know one in particular who I, Who I feel really bad for. But, but on the other hand, if they knew what, what you did to, to. To make it is, is really one incredible story. And I'd love for you to share just a little bit about your story, your journey, and we'd love to hear it.

Well, I guess it all starts with me, was when I played junior hockey, I wasn't that big, and my dad, I'm about a foot taller than my dad. So back then, you know, they were drafting all these players that were 6, 2, 6, 36 4, 6, 5, 6, 6. And it didn't matter if they had penalty minute stats, which used to matter, it doesn't matter anymore, or they had points. The guys, I saw guys getting drafted who were pointless in an entire 70, 80 game season, pointless in the playoffs, just a couple of penalty minutes that weren't that good as skaters. And I always kind of had a chip on my shoulder from that. But one of the things that my dad did teach me when I was younger was, you know, no matter what you're doing, you have to outwork everyone. You have to find a way to matter at what you do. Because, you know, he kind of had, you know, obstacles in his way his entire life, and he ended up being an incredibly successful guy. So I kind of took his work ethic and I devoted myself to, you know, improving my skating. Before people were doing that before, it was a thought, you know, either you could skate back then or you couldn't. And I looked at different ways. I found a skating coach I worked with. I, I did different. I used a hide and board, which is now called a slide board, to, to work on my skating. I worked out so many hours a day, whether it be weights, skipping, running, whatever was out there, I was doing it. The problem was I was doing it all every day. I could never gain a pound. So I went through every draft in junior without getting drafted. My draft year, I was 5 foot 7. So, you know, too small, didn't weigh enough. Got cut from major junior at that time as well. They said I was too small. Even though I had let the team in points and penalty minutes in preseason. Like for the people that are listening to this, penalty minutes were a thing back in the 80s that, that actually mattered and how you played the game. So, you know, I went through all those years and then when my junior career was over, I Had one obscure team invite me to try out, and I took. I just did it. I. I didn't have doubts, and I knew that I worked so hard that someone had eventually noticed me, or I believe that, and maybe that was delusional, but I think you're kind of delusional like me in that. In that sense, is that you never quit working. I work on my skating. My very last practice of my 13th year of pro hockey, I was still working on my skating. So, you know, I always believed in putting in the work and being ready and not giving people excuses to cut you. And it's just a matter of finding that opportunity, working hard, because you never know who's watching. And really, everyone's watching when you start to do good things, and everyone's watching when you're doing bad things. So you definitely want people to focus on the things that you do well. So the long and short of it, to me, it was all about hard work and how I made it. I played in a pro hockey league that no one had ever heard of, became the first guy to get to the NHL from that level, and did it in the season. But you need people looking out for you. You need some luck, but your preparedness has to be there. And it's. To me, it's always about you. No matter what you're doing, you have to put your heart and soul into it if you want to get something out of it.

That's so true. And just to go back a little bit, I mean, you had it to make it the hardest way. Like, you fought your way through, no pun intended. I mean, you just didn't fight. You could play. I mean, you had skill. You were, you know, a big, strong guy that could play. What did you grow? Like, if you. If you were 5, 8, how did you get to be so tall? Like, did that just happen overnight?

I. I had growth spurts at 19 and 20, and actually, I had one in the 10th grade. That. Because I think when I got my license, I was five one, five two. And I had one in the 10th grade that was painful. My elbows used to lock up my knees. So I. I had physically, you know, like, I'd start to get a little meat on my bones, and then I'd grow. And so when I left junior hockey, I. My first year of pro, I played, you know, 165 to 170 pounds, or I'll say 160 to 170, because I used to have a hard time keeping weight on. So, you know, there was so much, and I Always hated the bias against your size, against your height. When I thought, well, you know what? I win every puck battle. No one beats me in a conditioning drill in practice, I never tire. I beat people to the pot, you know, so I was always pumping myself up too. And I. And I've said this to every person I've ever coached, I say it to my children, is when you speak to yourself, speak very, very well, and if you're just focusing on the things that you do wrong or the things that go wrong in your life, you're not going to be successful. So I always felt that no matter what there, I didn't have negative self talk in me. I don't think I ever acted cocky because when I was younger, I really didn't speak a whole lot. I was, you know, rather shy until, you know, years ago and I got on television. You know, inside the confines of a dressing room, you start to be yourself. But, you know, I was never a loud guy publicly or anything like that. So, you know, reserved. But at the same time, I believed in myself and, you know, I just kept. I competed with everyone. And I know that you did that. I competed in practice to see you could get to the other end fastest and, you know, how many passes, good passes I could make in practice or anything that was competition. You know, the other people may have not have known we're in a competition, but I was always in a competition with someone else to prove to myself that I was better than him. And I think in a lot of cases, all through junior hockey, the guys that got drafted ahead of me, friends of mine back home, I was better. Guys that I played junior hockey with that were bigger and, you know, people talked about all the time. I proved that I was, you know, was better than those guys. So it was always about putting the work in to make sure that I was better and outworking, you know, my peers and the guys on the other teams.

You know, it's so funny because it's. I used to talk to Ronnie, our agent, as we said earlier, and he used to say, you guys talk the same. I go, what do you mean? Because I used to say this. The only thing I want to do is outwork the person across from me. So people said, were you nervous before the games? I mean, I was nervous to fight some really big guys, but we. I didn't look at myself. Oh, I'm a fighter. I'm not Dave Brown, who's 65 and it's one of the toughest guys in hockey. Or Joey, you know, Joey Kosar could play and. But I wasn't one of those guys that played a few minutes a game. You and I both played regular shifts and I knew if I outworked the person across from me and I knew if I was going to make some big hits, I'll have guys come after me. Even, like, even a guy like yourself, you know, if I go out and play and play hard, they're going to come out. Doesn't mean I'm going to beat everybody. But we were there. And it's one thing I tell people. I said, I use you as an example a lot. I use Nick Kyprios and I know you guys are friends and played on the same line, but look what you guys did. And you could take the same method, the same methodologies of what you did in hockey to life. And I know you incorporate that into your life today and we're going to get more into that. But start me back because I know, I don't know the exact year, but I know you played for John Tortorella, who people don't like, they say bad things on. I think he's amazing. I think he's an amazing person. I played for him in Buffalo and it's all he wanted to do is hard, you know, work hard. But some people say, oh boy, what was it like playing for Tortorella? I loved it. So tell me you're John Torre Morella story.

Well, I've got a couple of them. And it all started my first year of pro. He was, I was the number one villain in the league and he was the coach of the best team in the league. And one night we a game got out of control and he was yelling at me from the bench and he. And I am getting in a fistfight and on the bench, I jumped onto the bench and, you know, at the end of the year, after his team eliminated my team in the playoffs and I got suspended for going on the bench and at the end of the year, he came out in an arena and started yelling like, where's May? Where's May? Where's May? And eventually came up and I thought he maybe wanted to settle the score from what happened during that game. And he started to yell at me about, what were you doing playing left wing? You need to play right wing, you need to play center. You can, you know, don't play defense, you're a forward, you'll play in the NHL. Quit fighting all the time. Like he, he had, like, he looked out for people. And here I was like, I was the Arch Rival enemy of this team, their entire arena used to throw things and hate, you know, hate me. And it was a different era back then. It was a slap shot era. And two years later, he was my assistant coach with the New Haven Nighthawks in the American Hockey League when I was traded to the Los Angeles Kings. And talk about a guy that worked and his personality, from what he looked like back then and even what he looks like now sometimes, he is absolutely one of the most infectious people in the world. In a good way. His, the positivity that he exudes. And I always said, you know, you'd think you were going in to get reprimanded into his office. And really, you know, you're, you're going in there, you're apprehensive, you're worried about what was going to happen. And he would have you 10ft tall and bulletproof and believing in yourself, and he would give you the exact roadmap to success, short term, success long term, and just an absolutely phenomenal person. So I always get a kick out of the main, the sports media that goes after him for what he's like and the stories that they make up about him because it couldn't be further from the truth. His players absolutely love and adore him. People that meet him, the people that I've introduced him to, cannot believe what an absolutely incredible human he is. And he's the kind of guy you want in your quarter, but he outworks everyone. I know that he used to outwork the head coaches he was with, but he wasn't, he was there to support them. He wasn't trying to sabotage them. And, and a few times, I know on his career as an assistant, people got upset because all he did was work. He's an incredible dad, a phenomenal husband. Everything he does is to the best of his abilities. And it's about, he's a passion guy. He's a, he's hard work, passion in everything he does. And he's real, he's true, he's honest. And I think that's the people, the kind of people you want to align yourselves with that are absolutely 100 honest and convicted in a positive way in everything that they do.

I so much agree. So I was in North Carolina and I went to visit, I went to the game. Tampa was playing Carolina when he was coaching Tampa many years ago. And I, and I just waited to say hi to Craig Ramsey because I know after a game they lost that night, Tampa Bay lost. And it was like, you know, John, you don't really Want to see him After a game, people could say, you know, we talk great things about him, but I know after a game, he's not the type of guy, you know, he could say hi, maybe not. So I went and said hi to Craig Ramsey, who was my coach in Buffalo for years. And I walk away, and John Tortorella says. He yells down the hallway, hey, hey. And I. And I look back, he was that. You're kidding me. You're not going to come here and give me a hug and say hello? I said, oh, I didn't want to bother you. He goes, you're never bothering me, Hardy. You're never bothering me. And I gives me a hug, asked me how I'm doing. He met my son that night, talked to a friend I brought to the game, anything I need, he runs back in the room, gets my son a hockey puck and says, please stay in touch. And he said, in fact, we're developing our team. I think it was in New Haven, of all places. And we're.

We're.

We're trying to align with the minor league team. And what are you doing now? I said, well, I'm in the coaching business, but not coaching hockey players. He goes, listen, give me a call, and let's see what we could do. And he meant it. You know, he. He really meant it. So when you look back, he's a caring, loving guy. And nothing frustrates me so much when I'm not going to knock on reporters because. But when an uneducated person says some negative things about him and they're bashing him and what kind of guy he is, that infuriates me just like it did you. So I'm glad we're on the same page there.

No, he's a great guy. And, you know, one of the things that I've done is I've got a. You know, my best friend in hockey, played on my very first pro hockey team, and the. The highest level he played was the echo. And he's been a career coach, been phenomenal. And when I called John to about this guy, you know, he had needed the job, he started calling around to different NHL coaches, like, without hesitation, and went to bat for this guy. And then last year, when the guy didn't have a job because, you know, teams do complete, you know, a clean house, and a lot of times assistants go, and it has nothing to do with them, and he. He just went. He bent over backwards to make sure that he had a job, and he tried to get it done with his team, except they were a budget. You know, the coach. You can only have so many coaches on a staff, but he's just absolute. When he goes to bat for people, you can. You can trust that he's doing it with every ounce of his heart.

That's so true. So going back to your career, tell me about the Boston Bruins. That's where it started for you.

Well, you know what? When I first, I had another team's coach call my. Call my team's office, and my season was over, and the coach of another team. So you have to, you know, as I said, you never know who's watching. You never know. And as I said, I was a villain. I assumed everyone hated me. You know, coaches and players from all the other teams. You're young, you're naive. And the coach of this other team, Ron Hansis, who played in the World Hockey association, played in the National Hockey League, and he owned one of the teams in the league, and he was the coach, general manager, kind of like how it had to work back then. And the Islanders called him for a player and he said, I wouldn't give you one guy from my team, but there's a guy in this league who could play, play in the NHL right now, today, and be in one of your top lines. And it's this kid, Alame. So, you know, I was in the office and this was a lightning strike of luck. You do need luck in your life, but preparedness gets you there. And I was actually in the office picking up my last check back when they used to do it by paper. And had I not been there when he called, I never would have had this opportunity that absolutely changed my entire life and has given me everything in my life. When I. When I look back and connect dots and it was. He told me this story that the Islanders had called him and he said, it's only four games. They're not going to make the plast, but they're short bodies. You go and you. I said, I'm in. And I said, when can I leave? What do I got to do? And he says, well, there should be a flight. I checked. It's like six o' clock tonight. You can fly into Springfield from Greensboro. And I go, okay, okay. I'm gonna go home and get packed and I'll come back here and I'll call you with the details. He goes, you want to know what you're getting paid? I said, I don't need to get paid. I'll just go play. And. Because that's all I ever did. And I Know you're the same type of guy is that give me the opportunity. I, I'm not worried about a couple bucks here and there. I wanted to prove that I could play. I wanted that one game in the American Hockey League so I could have my second, my third, my fourth, my hundredth, and they get to my first NHL game. I believed in a process and not skipping the ladders of success. And it wasn't going to be that way in my life. My life was going to be about working hard and having to grind it out and, you know, work through, through it every day. And from those four games that I played in the American Hockey League, after the second game, the coach of the team, Fred Creighton, who, you know, told me that he, he said, alan, I don't know if you ever did anything wrong in your life. You're not the biggest guy. He goes, but you're fearless, you work hard. You're the best player on my team right now and you play in this low level league. And did you do something wrong? Did you do this? Did you do this? I said, I did none of the above. I said, I've just been in the wrong place at the wrong time and right now I'm in the right place at the right time. And he goes, well, I've told the Islanders to reach out and give you a three year contract. So I could not. I was an absolute shock from the phone call that I received a couple days earlier from Ron Hansis and from this conversation with this man. And then a couple days later, there was an incident in a hockey game and he had told me he had called me out in the dressing room, it was my third game in the American Hockey League. And he said it may, I need to talk to you in my room. So I went in the coach's office in Rochester and he said, I need you to cut what you're doing out there. He goes, I absolutely love it. I love you. I love everything about you. I told the Islanders again, they have to sign you, they have to get you there. And he goes, but I need you to tone it down because I don't want to lose tonight. 10 to 2, I only want to lose 6 to 2. And he goes, the guys in there are scared. He goes, you're over the top. He goes, you're just like a whirling dervish, blah, blah, blah. So I went back out and I continued to play my exact same style. And I got in trouble on the first shift out there and I get back to the bench and he comes walking down the bench. I go, oh, no, he's gonna play me anymore. He puts his hands on my shoulders, whispers in my ear. He goes, I love you. Don't change a thing. We end up losing 6 to 2 and not 10 to 2. And, you know, after that, I ended up getting a contract offer from Buffalo, from the New York Islanders. And then I chose to go to the New York island or to the Boston Bruins training camp without a contract because they had to fill an entire farm team. And I just thought that would be the best way to climb up the depth chart as fast as I could. So I wasn't looking for excuses. I wasn't looking. I was looking for ways to make it. What could I do to be on a team? And then when I got to the. The Boston Bruins, I took a chance on my very first contract. I end up with a coach that I would say loved me and I loved him. A guy named by the name of Mike Milbury, who a lot of people don't like, but he was so phenomenal for me. His assistant coach, Gordy Clark. These two guys took a liking to me, worked extra with me every day, even helped me work on, you know, the excessive shyness and everything I had back then, and did everything they could to promote me, to get me, you know, got me an NHL contract, got me in my first NHL games. And it was just the same thing. Hard work every day. And they said, that's your number one talent, and it is a talent. Hard work is a talent. Don't you forget that. And, you know, even Harry Sinden, the general manager of the Boston Bruins, told me when I was in his office, he said, alan, he goes, you have the greatest talent there is. That's the ability to work hard every second. So, you know, I took those as, you know, badges of honor to hear that, and made sure that was, you know, something that I kept inside me. Every practice, every game, every shift, however you want to do it. I made sure that that was a staple of who I was. And I attribute that to, you know, to continue to work. And I never looked for obstacles. I looked, you know, not for what was going to stop me. I looked for obstacles to jump. And, you know, because of those people, having those people in my life looking out and the preparedness of my. Of my training and everything and my. And my mindset, I think that, you know, that's why I was able to play in the National Hockey League.

Well, you did a. Not only did you play, you made an impact. But. But. But What I like what you're saying is I think the similarity here is the people that like the Mike Keenan's, that people don't like the John Tortorella's. People used to say Rick Dudley was, you know, tough. He would, you know, his training camps were absurd and, and, you know, guy like Milbury, he expected too much. The reason I know these guys took a liking to you is because your hard work, that's all these people ask for. So, like, in the real world, if you have a job, you're working for a corporation. Some people say, I don't like my boss, he's hard on me. It's, it's like you just have to show that, that hard, intense work that you did every day and you can, you could take that to all aspects of your life and that's why you got along with coaches like that.

But, and you know what? It's also, you have to look at it and I appreciate what you said, but at the same time, it's not their career, it's your career. So you've got to find a way to impress the people that you work for. And if that's what they want, that's what you give them. And if you're not going, if you're going to, you know, give into it or if you're going to find excuse to quit, you know, I wasn't going to let anyone make me quit. And I did play for Rick Dudley and all of those guys and I absolutely wanted to play for Mike Keenan because he was crazy and he pushed people and I love that. I love communication that was stiff and, and, you know, it was honest at the same time, you know, some guys played games here and there, but I like knowing where I stood. And you know, there are coaches that are negative, negative, negative, but they don't give you a road, you know, they just beat you down. That's different than what those guys. Those guys always gave you a benchmark of where you had to get to. So, you know, as a leader, you have to let the people know that you're, you're in charge of, you know, what you expect of them and how to get there. And if you're just going to beat them down and not give them a roadmap, you're not a great leader. You're not going to be effective leader. So.

And we're going to. That, that, that's so true. So true.

And so, yeah, so you have to be willing to do that. And you know, the, the boss is the boss, the owner is the owner, you've got to impress them to continue your livelihood for what you want. And eventually, hopefully maybe you could be in the position of those guys and, and work on the things that you didn't like be better than that. The things that you did like emulate it and it just kind of goes, you know, they're all lessons in life and when you're younger you think you have all the answers. And I know that the, the guy sitting here with you right now on this microphone at 55 is so much more intelligent than the guy that was, you know, 21 years old, 22 and 23 going through that process is that, you know, you have to take advice, you have to look at yourself and you can't let people, you can't let people force you to quit. You can't find reasons to quit. You've got to find reasons to go on. You have to find reasons to win.

That's so true. And, and you did. And, and taking that attitude, that's all we teach people. Like somebody says, well I have, I'm hiring this coach, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. I said the number one thing you need to do is have work ethic because that's very hard to teach. So I want to ask you, so you played in Boston, Edmonton, Washington, Dallas, Calgary. Does one place stick out? I think I know the answer to this but you could tell everybody there' play stick out in your mind that really where you made your grounds?

Well, I would 100%. It was, you know, the learning that I received in the Bruins organization, the Oilers, la prepared me to be a full time player in Washington. And what I loved about when I got to Washington and I think why it worked out for me so well, it was a hard work team. It was, you know, it was like a military platoon. Like you all had to do your job to win. It wasn't just that you had one superstar. It wasn't like an NBA team where you just get the ball to the one guy. It was, everyone had to do their part, everyone stuck together. And I thought it was the perfect situation for me. And when I look at it, you know, the support that I received from my teammates, the different coaches that I had there was absolutely phenomenal. Our general manager was a real attention to details guy and I loved it. I'm a guy that's always thrived with an itinerary and knowing what I have to do when I have to be somewhere and you know, even when I've worked for myself, it's Worked best when I live my life that way. So I really like the structure of the Capitals, and it was kind of the perfect time. And, you know, they needed to have a change in how they were doing things. And they went younger the year, my first year there. And, you know, guys like Nick Kyprios, Timmy Bergland, John Druce, Rob Murray, a lot of young guys got an opportunity for the first time, whereas they had been kind of an older team. When you say older back then, you know, a team 29, 30, 31. And all of a sudden they went with all these kids in their, you know, early 20s, and we had a different mindset. And once again, I always attribute that, you know, like, just because something's been done a certain way, you know, for a long time. And I used to tell the guys there, you guys have been doing it all wrong. You know, you're not looking for ways to win, you're looking for ways to lose. And, you know, I had more of a gung ho attitude than a lot of people. And I think Nick Kyprius would tell you this about, you know, my attitude was there was like, don't act like you're, you know, you don't belong there. You have to act like you belong. You have to carry yourself like you belong. You can't be cocky, but you've got to be confident. And I think that's where I made my greatest impact and, you know, ended up being one of the team leaders. So, you know, it was. I wish it would have lasted, you know, five to 10 years longer, but it did it and. But I cherished every second of it.

Yeah, it goes too quick, that's for sure. But share with, with my audience, our audience, some of the setbacks you had, because it sounds great, you worked hard. You worked hard, but I know everything wasn't that EAS easy. It wasn't easy for me. So there were some setbacks along the way.

Well, you know what? Just when I was. The first time I was traded, the setback would have been the way, had I taken this wrong way, I get traded to the Edmonton Oilers from the Bruins and I was more of a Boston Bruins type player and could have had a very, you know, I was in line to play there right away and I got trade at the Oilers and there were too many good players in front of me and, you know, there was a bunch of hall of famers and 50 goal scorers just at my basic position or right wing and maybe the toughest player in the league in Marty McSorley. So there was like five guys in front of me and a first rounder named Norm Lacombe, six guys, when you look at it that way, that it was going to be impossible for me to make that team. And you know, rather than have a negative attitude and be upset with it every day is when I was sent to their minor league team or as I probably, I look back, I would have been on the Boston Bruins. You know, they were nowhere near the caliber. They had one guy up front in Cam Neely that could have played the right side in the Oilers and he's a Hall of Fame player, right. So it was, you know, the work ethic. Every day my skating improved by being there. So it was a setback and that I didn't get to play. But once again, I think too much too soon, you're not prepared. You could have been. I could have been one and done had I got to Boston too early in my career. So I was able to work on my skating, develop my all round game. Playing for the Oilers farm team had a heck of a coach and a guy named Ron Lowe who ended up coaching the NHL for a long time. And he, he grinded us every day. And every day, you know, you had three games and three nights and lots of travel and hockey was way different back then than it is now. And I think just that you look at that and, you know, I, you know, was with that organization for a year, but when I got shot out of there, I was like shot out of a cannon. After, you know, I get traded to Los Angeles and playing the minor league team, I ended up going to the league finals. And you get preparation like that. So, you know, I have a hard time looking back at setbacks. I had some injuries my second year. I hurt my shoulder really bad, had ended up, you know, and then I played hurt the entire year and had, you know, some friction with the coach over, you know, how I was playing. And you know, I felt that he wasn't in my corner. And I fought back. As far as, you know, I was stubborn. I wasn't going to quit. I played, I forced myself to play injured and I had surgery that summer. And then the next year I had a phenomenal season. But because of the, you know, the willingness to battle and not to give in to, you know, sometimes injury, we look back at a lot of the old school players. You know, painkillers weren't prevalent in the National Hockey League back then or were. And I never, I've never used a painkiller. I, you know, I took some Advil. But, you know, you kind of gritted your teeth and, and fight your way through injury. So when you look back, there's injuries, there's, you know, you always have to. You just always have to be ready. So it's a matter of getting your body the best shape you can be. You need to make sure that you stay healthy, find a way to always do the extra stuff to stay in the lineup. So, you know, you get traded, that's part of being a pro athlete. Especially in the National Hockey League, I think there's probably more movement as far as trades are concerned than the other sports were. There's more free agency. But I, I think just when new coaches come in, it's kind of. You have to prove yourself all over again. But, you know, that's fine. That's every walk of life. You've got new bosses all the time. So I don't look at, you know, things as setbacks in that, as just another, just another challenge that as long as you want to keep playing, you've got to find a way to accept those challenges and keep going if you really want to continue doing that and living that lifestyle. Yeah.

And that attitude. You could see where Alan, where it's taken you and just phenomenal. Everything you said, you speak right from the heart. And where I really got to know you in this work ethic is even in when we were done, we were both done around the same time. I almost want to believe you were coming from Dallas. I ended up, the Rangers did not re sign me and we're almost at the end and you and I end up in Orlando together. And we became really good friends. We lived in the same neighborhood. We really got to know each other. We drove together every day. And that's where I really got to really enjoy you. Not only did I know about your worth ethic and the character of who Alan May was, I got to know you personally. And I think that was really a highlight for me as well.

Well, I appreciate that. You know what, it's funny. You have all of these different players too, that when you're. You go from team to team, you have guys that are enemies. Especially when you play like you and I did. And those are the guys that become your best friends. And I think you and I had two fights in our career. I believe it. What, what what it was. And it's funny, those are the guys that gravitate towards and I know that I used to say and do some things to a guy named Gordon when he was in Buffalo, in Winnipeg, and we ended up being best of friends with the Dallas Stars and we both played there. So it's, you know, as the game goes around and you get to meet a lot of great people and a lot of incredible experiences. And I guess the only regret I have, Hardy, is that you and I didn't go to Germany and play a couple years together in the del for a while. I think that would have been a lot of fun to go over and be with someone that you like hanging around with so much. And, you know, if I could go back and do anything over and I don't like to really, you know, think like this or be like this, one of the things I would do over, I would have kept playing for a little while longer because I had, I had those options. And just for the experiences, like the worldly experiences of playing and, you know, Germany, Austria, possibly Switzerland, to different countries just for a different lifestyle for my family, because I've had some friends that a good friend of mine, John Miner, who ended up playing so long overseas, he'd end up playing on a team with his son and his kids end up speaking five languages. So I always look back and, you know, it would have been fun to continue playing, but I just don't know if my body, the way we trained, you and I, because we were cut from a different cloth than the average Joe, we overdid it. And I don't know if I could have kept that pace up for that many years. Like where eventually the body would have just died on us, I think because it was extreme training methods and we weren't cheating. We were doing everything the way you're supposed to. But I think after a while, being that intense, your body can only take so much.

That's funny what you said. So what? I would have changed things to a little bit. I ended up quitting hockey early after Hershey. I was the captain of the Calder cup team towards the end. Played with a torn stomach muscle all year. Colorado promised me I'm gonna play maybe 30 games and have the same role I did in New York. They won the Stanley cup the year before. Tear my stomach muscle and I'm done. I go to Hershey and I said, now I'm completely done. I end up living here in Charlotte and I'm having fun playing hockey. Scored 30 goals. I. I came back here because my ex wife at the time did not want to live in. In Michigan where we had a house. So I said, okay, we'll. We'll go to North Carolina. She had family here and played part Time for the minor league team. And then I went and played with your buddy Johnny Minor in Cologne, Germany. We hung out. So that's funny. When you said Johnny Miner. I said that we never even brought that name up together. So Johnny was my buddy. Ended up hanging out with him. Great guy, funny guy. And he was. I had no idea that you guys were friends. And you must. You must have a camera on me. We talked about, you know, I know you and I talked before about, you know, Google's out there. They might be watching us. But the funny thing is I just friended Gord Donnelly because I got traded for. For Gord, and he's one guy that scared me. I'm going to get him on here. We got traded for each other, but then I got to know him. He has a. He actually is a nice guy. It's funny. He. He's that big, tough guy. When you play against him in Quebec, I'm going to rip your face off. He had Vaseline on his face. You're intimidated by him, but he's the nicest guy as well. So we have that commonality here with the same people. I think it's funny.

Yeah, it is. You know, he is probably one of the guys, when I look back at my career, and that's the thing that's so hard to accept when you're done or get used to not accept, is that you have all these incredible experiences and your bond, because every single player, no matter where they come from in the world, and I've always believed in hockey, that it doesn't matter what race you are, your religion, your political beliefs, you know, when we played, you're just a hockey player and everyone got along because you all had the same common goal plan in the National Hockey League. And basically all of our stories are the same there. You know, some guys, it was a lot easier for. Some guys were more natural at the game. But the one thing is that everyone loves it. And you look at that. And Gordon, I probably laughed with more than any of my teammates that I ever had. And, you know, I even went to play in the ihl. I signed with Houston so I could play with him. And then they end up trading him a couple months into it, and that was a huge bummer. But I. I just look at so many guys and then John Miner, I've never made an illegal bet in my life. I'm not a betting guy. But when John Miner I were with the Edmonton Oilers, we were, you know, the. I was the fifth right wing, you know, next guy to go in the lineup every game, and he was the next defenseman to go in the lineup every game. But we'd be in the press box and where he and I would stand, we'd have like fistfuls of $1 bills and we would bet these $1 bills on every single penalty. Who would score next, whether the, you know, whether the power play would convert, who'd take the next dumb penalty, who was going to win the game. And, you know, the money would go back and forth all game. We probably always left with. With the exact same amount that we went there with, but we used to just laugh and laugh and then argue over that, you owe me a buck. And it's just. There's a lot of great stories. And once again, the common bond with everyone is that you love the game so much. And I look back and one of the things that I still can't accept and I have a hard time understanding is guys that weren't happy inside the dressing room every day or seem like they hated it and didn't like being there. And I thought, man, this is the greatest thing, easiest, best life in the world. It is a lot of blood and sweat and there's injuries and there's, you know, there, there's mayhem that you have that you don't have the, the blood and the sweat in other walks of life so much. You have sweat, but not the blood so much. And, but it's, but it's. When you're, when you're done, the camaraderie. And then you look at these guys who, who weren't happy, and I just said, man, some guys said, you know, says, I guess just people, some people in general have a black cloud. But, you know, in building a team, I wouldn't want guys like that on my team. And I can't remember on any of my good teams, my teams that have won championships at any level, whether we had. I don't, I don't think we had a black cloud on any of these. Those teams. That personality that was negative and wasn't, you know, you want to be a light, you don't want to be, you know, an extinguisher on the entire thing. So I just look back at that and I hope I was never the guy that wasn't a positive force in the dressing room and a guy that made a great place to be and, you know, help everyone feel like they belonged and was happy to have them there.

Well, I don't think you ever were. I played with you, and I know what your teammates think. And we don't have to go to Neil Sheehy. I remember I broke his leg in a fight. Then I became friends with him after. I don't know, because I think he was with Ronnie, too. I can't remember. But we started talking. We became friends. And I know we kept. You. And I kept talking about that story, but I think, you know, just going back. No, it's true. One thing I've learned, it's hard to find those relationships because I like. I love sending. Talking to players I played with or people that I played against, because there's no exchange. There's no financial exchange. It's all friendship. We're all like. We all have that same common bond. And, you know, I miss that. I love talking to you. You and I could talk for hours. But to wrap it up here, look what you've done. Later in your career, you become an analyst on NBC Sports, and you worked with the Washington Capitals. How did you get involved with that?

Well, I was actually coaching, and I was in kind of a weird situation with the team I was with, and it was a lot of turmoil. And when I first took my job, and I'd always wanted to work in television, when I was done, you know, television and coaching, and they reached out to me then the next year, I just said, you know, I was coaching, though, and I don't think they knew where I was at. They sent me just a blind email. The next year, I just text him out of the blue, hey, I want that job. And I started working for. It was then Comcast Sports, before there was a merger with NBC. So, you know, the role was pre and post game shows, and then it started to be between the benches during the game as the third analyst or the second analyst, the third guy on the team. And it's been 11 seasons of that. It's not even like work is, because it's. I get to talk hockey. I get to be around the game and all the great people. And I love when I'm able to be in the arena and you bump into old rivals and everyone knows what everyone's doing and keeps an eye on each other. And guys aren't scared to say that, you know, tell the truth when they're done. You do a good job. I like you. And I remember you did this in a game, and you can sit and talk for those guys for hours and hours. And then I'm on the Caps board of directors, on their alumni, and I do a lot of personal appearances, charity work with them. So once again, I'm around a lot of good people. It's a positive environment both places. The stuff with the team is always incredible. And, you know, my, my son, my youngest son always asked me, he goes, do you hate when people recognize you all the time? I said no. I said, how many times have you ever heard someone be rude to us when we're out somewhere in a restaurant or whatever it is, people walk up and they're nice. And I said, there's nothing wrong with that as long as people are being good about it. And so it's been great that way. And then, you know, I've got a couple other things that I do as well. But, you know, it's been so much fun. This team won a Stanley Cup a few years ago and it was absolutely phenomenal and incredible to be a part of, especially because I was a. I'm a proud alumni. I represent the team, even though I don't get paid by them to do the television work and get paid by NBC. We are a broadcast partner. But, you know, the longer they work, the more money I make, the longer they play, the more money I make. And. But besides that, it's incredibly fun. It's not like, once again, it's not like a real job. And you know, it's like you can almost say you're a fan somewhat because you are cheering for them. You want them to do well because you know their everyday struggles and you get to become friends and know the players and the coaches, the management, you know, everyone involved. And it affects everyone, whether it's season ticket sales, corporate sales. So, you know, this team has suffered a lot of heart heartbreak and have always told everyone, you need to have the right roster, the right coach, the right manager, the right owner, the right game plan. You need a lot of luck and you need to be healthy to win a Stanley Cup. And it was hard for this team to do it. When they finally did it, I think people finally understood what I was saying all those years of how great it would feel when it eventually does happen. And I, And I wish that every team and every fan base and in the NHL specifically could experience what it's like to win. And I looked at the Buffalo Sabres. I'd love to see that team win a Stanley cup at some point because, oh yeah, it's, you know, they've been through a lot of. And there's just different franchises that came so fast and so easy for. But I love seeing all the, you know, the two California teams have won at LA and Anaheim so far. I'd love to see San Jose get there at some point because they a first rate organization. So once again, it's just been a blast. It's been so much fun.

And we're going to conclude here, but I think you left us out. And maybe I'm wrong on this, but I know it takes a lot. All the way from the top, all the way down to everybody from, from the, you know, the equipment manager to the people that's passing out towels in the dressing room. I mean the announcers, big part of it. And the owners and you got a ring. Did you get a Stanley cup ring?

Yeah, I did. And I was so surprised that I got it because that's not how it used to happen. When we played, it was just the players and the management team and the coaching staff, the trainers and so it was. It's incredible. I look at it, I actually don't wear it every day. I wear it to work and I. But I do look at it every day and I think how incredible and what a great memory 2018 was.

Yeah. Well, Alan, it was awesome having you. Fantastic. I really appreciate it. And everyone, I'm sure they love this. And thanks again.

All right, thanks, Mike. Great being with you.

Okay.

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