Mike Lodish-Super Bowl Champion

Mike Hartman, performance mindset Strategist. This is Develop the mindset of a Champion with former Stanley cup champion Mike Hartman.

Good afternoon and welcome to the show. Develop the Mindset of a Champion. Today I'm honored to have Mike lodish. Mike played 11 years in the National Football League. Played his college at UCLA as high school at brother Rice in Michigan. Mike and I grew up in the same area. Became friends later actually, when he played for the Buffalo Bills. I'll get into that story, how I met Mike. He's a great guy. He has a lot to share, great insight, and he is a really a hard worker and a fantastic individual. Mike, great to have you here.

Hey, thanks, Mike. Good to see you. Appreciate it. Yeah.

So I'm going to challenge you on something right now you may not know. Do you remember the first time we met?

We were playing hockey.

No, no, no, no.

Remember?

Nope.

You were impression on me.

Hardy. We had the same set of friends, but we really didn't know each other. As I moved to Canada at a young age, you were in playing high school football, so we never met. I knew you were in Buffalo. I was in Buffalo the same time as you. We had an event, a black tie event, and we were, I don't know where were the Sabers and Bills together? And we were at this event and everybody told me about you, and I had a hunch, I think there's 50 guys on a football team. How many guys are on the team?

There's probably 53 on the active roster with probably 63 guys with practice squad.

Okay, 63 guys. So I walk up to a guy, big guy, about 6 foot 3, great shape, and I said, you know who Mike Lodish is? And you said, I'm Mike Lotus. They said, mike, I'm from Detroit, Mike Hartman. And we gave each other a hug.

And I remember that. That was 1990. I think that was my rookie year.

1990. I was in my earlier. I haven't, you know, I've been hitting the head a couple times, but I can remember certain things. So what I want to do is just. I want everyone just to have you share your story starting, you know, I know you're an entrepreneur. I know you have a business. I want to share your story like starting in youth sports. In fact, we have a lot of AAU football players watching this today.

Awesome.

I want your story as a kid through college, and I'm going to ask you some questions.

Sure. Well, I'm. I'm 52 years young. The way I look at it, right now, and I was born in 1966, 7. And when I was in eighth grade, I was in a little bit of. I was a, I was a challenging young man for my mother, just put it that way. And she gave me a couple alternatives for high school and public school wasn't one of them. So basically one was a military academy, the other one was Detroit Country Day, and the other one was Brother Rice High School. Well, ironically, being a hockey player as I grew up my whole life and I didn't play football until I was 14. My father played football at Notre Dame and he was a all American out of his high school here in Detroit. And he went on to be a brilliant surgeon and all that sort of stuff. But my, my deal was basically. Can you hear me Hardy?

Yeah, we hear great. You're great.

My deal basically is I went to Brother Rice. I'm watching them play hockey at Birmingham Ice arena, not football. And once I got to Brother Rice and I knew I wanted to go there, I thought to myself, you know, I want to be like my dad. I want to play football too. Even though I kept playing hockey and so I continued to play football and hockey. I played for the great Eddie Jockerman for the. He was my varsity high school Brother Rice high school coach. And you'll remember Eddie, Eddie played with the Rangers and Detroit and you know, you know, Eddie and. And then I was coached by Al Fur casa and his staff and, and I made varsity at a very young age at high school as well. And it sort of blossomed. And by going to Brother Rice, I'm not trying to promote by the Rice as the place to go. But at that time, Brother Rice football was top shelf. You know, it was like going to play for honey baked AAA hockey for the kids or going to a, a home in Quebec, Canada and playing for Quebec major junior team, you know, top shelf, right. You know, the whole nine yards. And we lost one game in my high school career essentially from really my sophomore year to my senior year. And we, you know, we won a state championship and we were ranked on USA Today in the team top five in the country. And when you get into that situation as you know like being drafted, a lot of the draft hockey players come from the Quebec major junior or the junior, you know, the big time junior leagues because the premier players go to those leagues to play like the NC2A with SEC for football, for example.

Right.

But so brother Rice was that SEC caliber type high school for football, for high school football. So all the recruiters in the nation would know of brother Rice and want to go see their players. So it was a vehicle for me to be seen as I'm being seen now with you, and you're promoting your business and what you do and helping these kids and all that sort of stuff. So I was very fortunate. I became a parade all American in football and I retired from hockey when I was 16 because I was getting letters to play football and I thought, well, you know what? That's where the money is. No junior teams are asking me to come play for him. So I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, right, with hockey and, and I was big strong guy and I was starting to slow down with hockey and being a big bulky guy doesn't really work real well when you want to be a skilled player in hockey. You know, you're either going to be a goon or a deep stay home defense, you know, that's going to knock people around and keep them on. Just use your body, right? So I got recruited all over the country. I, UCLA, Michigan, Boston College, North Carolina, Chapel, LSU, Texas, all the Pac 10 schools, all the Big 10 schools. And I thought, well, I'm gonna either go to UCLA or Michigan. I wanted to play in the Rose bowl game. Right at that time, the Rose bowl, played the championship game in The Rose Bowl, January 1st game, which was the granddaddy of them all was Pac 10 versus the Big Ten. Right. Now it's Pac 12 versus the Big 12 or whatever the hell it is. So. Right, yeah. And so, you know, I could never win a national championship playing college football that way because I would had to have played it at that time at the Orange bowl in Miami. That's where. So you had your bowls. It wasn't the BCS that you have now. You had the Fiesta bowl, you had the Sugar bowl, you had the Cotton Bowl. Right, right. Fiesta Bowls in Arizona, in New Orleans, Cotton Bowls in Dallas. But everybody plays the national championship at the Orange bowl in Miami. So we could never be a national. We could be a co national championship, but we could never actually play in the game. That's why they created the BCS and all of this playoff stuff to sort of even it out and bring some parity and really determine a true champion, which I like. I think it's a good deal. And they rotate the bowls for the national championships and that sort of thing. So in a nutshell, I chose to go to UCLA because I thought at the time with my family and what was happening and things around my neighborhood in my world at that time, and everybody has issues with things, and you have to determine. But I was originally going to go to Michigan, and then I pulled back and I went to ucla. And that for me was the greatest move I ever made. It was I called my own bluff on myself, okay? And what that means is I committed to going there. And I, you know, it's like I put, I put. I pushed all my chips in, all in. But somehow I was able to pull my chips back and put them over to ucla. And it happened. And the best part about that is my D line coach at ucla, Greg Robinson, who ended up coaching at Michigan with rich Rodriguez maybe 10 years ago or five years ago, whenever Rich was a coach there, okay, he brought me to the National Football League, and he brought me to this team right here, the Broncos, because he was the D coordinator. So Hardy, you know, being a journeyman hockey player, like me being a journeyman football player. Oh, Hardy's available. Let's bring him in. He's tough as nails. He'll be a fourth line guy. We know what we got out of him. He's a role player. He'll play for his 500, 600,000. He won't argue with us. That's what I was.

Yeah, but you know what, Mike? I'm going to tell you a couple. You mentioned Eddie Jockeman. I've taught. I was with Eddie twice this year. And every time I bring up your name, he has a smile on his face. And then his daughter was with them, so you know her as well. So they go, oh, we love Mike. And I got to tell you a quick story.

Every time, Dave Jockeman, I played with his son Dave.

So every time I bring up your name, I was in a Starbucks in Charlotte, North Carolina, and I knew Frank Reich. I met him a couple times.

Great man.

He didn't remember me from Buffalo, but I walked up, I said, hey, Frank, my name is Mike Hartman. I just want to introduce myself. Oh, nice to meet. I said, well, I played for the Sabres when you were in Buffalo. My good friend Mike Lodish was there. We grew up together. We're from Detroit. And he says, Mike. He didn't say one of. He goes, mike is the hardest working player I have ever seen.

Franklin disagree with that?

I'm sorry.

I wouldn't disagree with that.

No. Then he said, he didn't say one. Up he goes, the hardest player. And I almost want to believe. I. I want to get it straight. This was like about four years ago. He also said to me, maybe five years ago, he said that even the guys in practice didn't like competing against you.

Correct.

And that's what a lot of people don't understand. Like, nowadays. Like, people say, oh, I want to play college hockey. I want to be a football player. I want to do well. I want to go to, you know, a great school and get a degree. But if they don't put the work in, if they don't do everything that you did as a player, then they're not going to do it. And a lot of people want to do it, but a lot of people don't know how to do it. So how did you do it? What made you want to compete like that and have that fight in you as an athlete?

Well, first and foremost, I'm assuming people are listening to us, right?

Lots of people, yeah.

All right, everybody. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm just going to tell you the gift that you have here is Mike Hartman. Mike Hartman. And I'm being respectful because I'm going to go to my story and you're going to see the parallel here. Mike Hartman is one of the toughest guys out there and one of the most loyal guys and is an example of what to do and how to do it to make it. And I hope I'll be the same to you after you hear my story. But I just want to recognize that because a lot of people don't recognize him that way. And I do because I'm from his world. In his world, he was the third, fourth line guy. Maybe a second liner at some point.

No, let's go four. Let's keep it in the fourth line.

Okay? So we'll call that a backup. I was a career backup for nine years, and I started for one full season in Denver, and I started for the Buffalo bills for probably eight or nine games, maybe 10 games. Okay, so close to two years. So moving forward on how you achieve something and the motivation that you have is one, to continue listening to Mike Hartman, okay. For guidance. Two, listen to what I have to say. Now, what I have to say is perseverance and motivation comes from within your heart and your mind. And listen, we're all lazy right now. It's COVID 19. We're all feeling blah. We've probably gained some weight. We don't feel good. So once that door opens, you need to figure out how you're going to get better at that. Right? So how did I decide that I wanted to take it to the next level? I have been gifted in my life from God to have motivation, personal motivation, future thinking, or foresight. Or, you know, I don't know the correct term, but I want to look into the future, and I want to talk about four moves ahead. And I'm a terrible chess player, by the way. Okay. But it's the philosophy of chess, right? So you need to analyze a situation. I'm in eighth grade. I'm a problem kid. Where do I want to go, and where do I see this as the best opportunity for me? Brother Rice High School. It's close to my home. I'm sure I can make some good friends there. Then when I got there, it was about discipline. Are you disciplined enough to say to yourself, this is what I want to do? If you come home and you're my son and you say, dad, I want to have the best slap shot in the world, I'm going to say to you, no problem. I'll get you whatever stick you want. I have the fund. I have the money to do that. Okay? Now it's.

It's.

I have the resources to do that, but at the end of the day, it's basically about. My screen keeps closing out on me here. It's about, do you have the will to want to be the best? And that comes from within your heart. Okay? And so the example I use about a slap shot is, don't come to our house and complain that you're not good at something and then you don't work at it. That's.

And I'm going to share. It's so true, Mike. In fact, it's people giving us a chance in life. I have to say this now. Seymour Knox just joined us and you know the Knox Gallery in Buffalo? Seymour gave me. My family gave me a chance to play for the Buffalo Sabres. I'm honored. He's on here watching. He's talking about players of heart. And the neat thing is you remember good people in your life. So I'm. People say, why are you posting all of these pictures on Facebook? I'm picturing. I'm posting pictures of people that meant something in my life. My house, league hockey coach, and people that meant a lot. Because you remember that and you don't forget things. Seymour. I've been traded, like, different times. And when I ended in New York, Seymour was the first person. Mr. Knox to reach out to me and send me a letter, congratulate when the team won the Stanley Cup. Owner of another team. Those are the relationships and people that helped us along the way. Who was a big influence in your life and who helped you along the way?

Well, I gotta say, my parents My parents are. That's the motivation that for me, my father was a. Was a wonderful athlete as well, and he was a brilliant mind. He. He basically went to med school and became a surgeon. That, you know, that wasn't my calling. I wasn't. I didn't want to study that hard and do that sort of stuff. But at the end of the day, my mother and my father are the two people. They're the reason why I'm here, starting out. There was a lot of other people that, along my journey that supported me with my sisters and, you know, that sort of thing. But if my father didn't work hard to become something, to make a living, he doesn't have to be a doctor. You can be an electrician, can be a plumber, could be a masonry, any of the trades. It doesn't matter if you're afforded the opportunity. As a young man, and my parents afforded me the opportunity and my mom instilled in me a sense of discipline and accountability. So again, back to that example. Want to be the best slap shot, right? I'll buy you the net, I'll buy you the sticks, I'll buy you the fake ice we can put on the driveway. Just put your hat on, your gloves on and put your scarf on and.

Rip a hundred and your kid's a hockey player. And I have on my AAU guy who I love, Keith Noel, who this guy is one of the hardest working guys. He works with AAU football and he does the football. He also helps with hockey. But what advice would you give these young players today? Because there's a lot of pushback on football and with younger players playing the game. What kind of advice would you give to his AAU athletes? I think their age is 13 or it could be 11 and up. I'm not sure the ages exactly. But what would you give? What kind of advice would you give to Keith in his organization?

Well, I'll tell you, I would also give advice to the coaches because the coaches are the guys that can drive the desire to be there with the kids. Right? So, A, the coaches need to get their mindset straight on getting coached themselves on how the game is to be played, how to tackle somebody properly these days, how not to use your head, protect yourself. Not that they're not doing it, but make sure that the coaches are focused. Secondly, I mean, for the kids, my thing was just the love. If you have the love for the game and you have the love to do something, go and do it and, and do everything you can to achieve your Goals. Now look, a 10 year old kid might not have the same goal as a 16 year old kid, right? He's probably not. That's a big gap, right? So you get these little kids playing flag football, moving on up, you know, don't be afraid of the game. The game wasn't the issue. The issue was when you got a concussion, what. What we thought was just seeing stars and you shake it off and you're like, oh, I'm okay, coach, I can do it. That's when, if you get something like that, you have to heal it. You have to let it heal. You have to go away from the game. You have to be on the sideline and you can't think anymore. Oh, I'm not, I'm not strong, I'm weak. No, you're let like your acl, you blow your acl, you gotta let it heal. When it gets fixed, you gotta let it heal you before you can come out of the field. We weren't letting our brains heal and as a result we've seen all this chronic traumatic encephalopathy issues.

There's been a lot with that. There's been a lot.

So at the end of the day for coaches, they need to understand and how to recognize that and reassure the young man or the young girl if she's playing, that just because you're out doesn't mean that you're weak. You're not instill that positive reinforcement, it's always be positive. But show them how you work hard. Make them work hard. Bag them once in a while, you know, make them suck canal water from running 115, 110s. You know, hey, sometimes you just gotta do it. You gotta see what you're made out of. You know, you're not trying to kill anybody. But I know we kind of went a big around on the.

No, this is great. This is really great. But I gotta ask you because we, I have to ask you. Cause this is. You're talking about a lot like you. How proud are you? Like of yourself? I mean, I'm proud of you. Look what you've done. Now we're going to talk about the six Super Bowls. You can go through it like, you know, they give us the skinny version of each one. What it meant the first one. I'm just gonna let you do the talking. I'm enjoying listening to you. I want to hear these Super Bowls and what has it done to you personally?

Well, I, I'm extremely fortunate guy. That's all I'm tell you. I, I was a 10th round draft pick, 265th pick. And when Coach Levy called me, I kind of had a flavorful thing to say to him that I can't repeat on your show. And I wanted to know who the D line coach was. And I, you know, I said, what? That blank took you so long? You know, And I was pissed, you know, because I was supposed to go higher up in the draft and make more money. But, you know, it just goes to show you, I was eager, like I wanted to be there, like that. It's that love for the game, right? And ultimately it was a blessing in disguise because going to UCLA, playing in the Arizona game my fifth year and getting beat 42 to 7, but having the work ethic mentality that I have is I kept playing through the whole game. So John Carpenter, the head of the scouting division at that time in 1990 when you and I met, came up to me in training camp and said, do you know why I drafted you? I said, no. He says, by the way, that you played in the Arizona game then. And we got crushed. I mean, that beat seven to one or it's eight to nothing, you know, it was bad and we got just pulverized. But I had a really good game statistically. I played well myself individually and. And so all of a sudden I'm thinking, geez, I get drafted by Buffalo. I said to my dad, I go, dad, I lived in California. I left snow. I don't want to go back to snow. Especially in the outdoor arena, you know, like Green Bay, Cleveland, Buffalo. So I got there, I got to. I got to training camp and I. It was just. I met all the guys and there was no pads and everybody was kind of screwing around and brother in law and we call it, you don't want to kill each other, you don't have pads on, and all that sort of stuff. And I. I saw the Bickering Bills, and that was when they were the Bickering Bills. I don't know if you remember that party.

I watched that thing on TV with Jim Kelly. I'm a big sports fan.

Yeah, so. So they were the Bickering Bills. And Vic Karuchi, who was a beat writer for the Buffalo News, labeled them. I think it was Vic. And Vic, please forgive me if I'm making a mistake here, but I think. And Vic's a friend of mine. I like Vic. Vic's a good guy, but he was a little colorful in his, in his, in his writing style, I guess. So I got there and I had a first look At Bruce Smith, Thurman Thomas, Cornelius Bennett, James Lofton, Andre. I mean, all these hall of Famers, right? Shane Conlon, right Tally. I mean, Nate Odoms, the great Mark Kelso with the kazoo hat. You know, the. And I went to the super bowl my first four years. I got out of my fourth year and I'm batting a thousand, going to the super bowl as a 10th round selection. So am I proud of myself? I am. And the most proud moment I had. Hardy wasn't lifting the Lombardi Trophy when I was in Denver. You know what the most proud moment it was for me is when I could call my mother on August 31st in 1990 and say, your son's a National Football League player.

Isn't that, isn't that everything? I, I say the best feeling in the world.

I made it.

That's. You know what, it's so funny. I played my first exhibition game with the Sabres. A couple guys got hurt. I rushed to the phone and called my parents. I said, I'm going to be lining up with Gilbert Perot, Mike Foligno, these guys that I used to idolize. And you're playing and it is such a rewarding feeling and such a great feeling. So the great news is you ended up. You know, I feel, I mean, I was so upset for the guys in Buffalo. I did see that report. It came out that the team was torn, you know, with Jim Kelly one way and different guys the other way.

But there was problems there, Mike, and that. And we went to four in a row. And I'm going to tell you, if you watch the 30 for 30 with the Buffalo Bills, I saw that. That explains everything. And that was the story that I told to people before that. If you wrote a book, you would not want to say what I would tell people. Right. Because.

Right.

And, and it's, it's fairly well known, but a lot of the premier guys, they enjoyed the, the, the, the out. The evening life. Right. They enjoyed drinking, they enjoyed chasing, they enjoyed all this stuff that defocused. You know, it brings you out of focus. You know what I mean? And that was, that was the, that was one of the things. I'm sure we're going to get into it, the differences between the two. But.

Well, I was. Okay, tell me about John Elway.

I want to know about.

We have, we have a, A little time. I want to know about. You go to Denver.

Yeah, so I go.

I mean, the hardest thing to do is go to a championship. I don't know. It's you got to look in the mirror and say. I know you don't say, why me? But, like, what. I mean, you're going to the super bowl six times, and now the. The biggest name in football, Tom Brady, is. Is just, you know, he's three ahead.

That's a long ways, brother.

Yeah, but still, it does. Listen, I mean, think about it. Kid from Detroit, Michigan playing for Brother Rice, ucla. You find yourself playing in six Super Bowls. Now you're playing with John Elway, and now you win two super bowl rings. I was at your house. You showed me these two gigantic rings, Sherwood. And I see some pictures behind. Do I see the president? The.

That's President Clinton back there. And that's my mom and dad and I at Buffalo. That's actually taken in over my shoulder there, number 73. That's taken at Indianapolis. We were playing the Colts. And then that's a. That's a. The other picture right behind off my shoulder. I'm getting ready to get in a stance. That's at Rich Stadium. So. And then I got the super bowl pictures above that, and. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, Denver. So going to ucla, like I told you, was the best thing that happened to me because Greg Robinson brought me there, my D line coach, and I ended up starting for him. They didn't sign me back. They brought a new guy in that was better than me. I was done my seventh year. And then two weeks into training camp, Jumpy gathers, blows. His Achilles tended out. And Mike Shannon calls me while he's on the field. He says, mike, how you doing? I said, mike, what's up? Shouldn't you be in practice? He goes, yeah, Jumpy just blew his Achilles tendon out. Are you ready to go? I said, are you kidding? Do pigs like to roll around in mud?

Of course I'll run there. Listen, I'll swim there.

Get me there, my skateboard, you know, I mean, whatever. But, yeah, so I got signed up, and he gave me a nice deal to play for him. And then we. Those two years, we went to the super bowl back to back. So how ironic is that?

Yeah, I got a couple questions for you. I got it. There's a young guy out of the. He was a football player, played Division 2, I believe, out of Ohio. Jeff Goldsmith. Did you ever feel like you didn't belong with those guys?

Is the question of every day. But every day you look at yourself and say, every day I looked at myself and said, God, some of these guys are huge. How am I competing against them? But, Jeff, I put my Pants on, one leg at a time, just like them. And I walked to the field just like them. And they bleed red, just like me. So at the end of the day, when you cross over the line to walk on the field, switch turns. Now it's, you have to deal with me. Yeah, you have to deal with me. And you're gonna have to deal with me over there, right? So you're gonna have to play. You're gonna have to bring some dessert with your lunch because you'll need the extra calories when you play against me. Me. That's the mentality of the champion. But half these guys I'm saying it to, in my mind, they're monsters, right?

I'm, I'm.

I have fear in my heart, but the fear drove me to be a warrior, you know, that was it.

Well, I'm gonna say one thing and we're gonna conclude. I. First of all, I love having you. It's so great. I enjoy our conversations when I, you know, sometimes you and I catch up, like every now and then you gotta, you know, I understand your son's a hockey player. You've done great. But I, you know, I list different people in different categories, and I'm just gonna call you a 1 percenter. We had the 5% club, so 5% of the people that do things that you know out of the box, you're a 1 percenter. You will always be. And it's all about the little things in details. The littlest things as an athlete and in life. And I'll always remember you. Sure, I respect the fact that you are a champion, super bowl champion. But better than all that, I like Mike Lodish, the person. Stefan Matteo, my teammate who scored the biggest goal in Ranger history, sent me a message in here, said, what a nice, down to earth guy. And those are people I like to surround myself with. So you're one that does the little things in details. I want to leave one thing with everybody before we leave. Somebody asked me, what is imagery? And I said, well, I use this. A doctor from the University of Tennessee named Dr. David Medford told me once, when you're stressed, if you're nervous before a game went into a business meeting, close your eyes. It's called the gold paint theory. Imagine you have gold paint from your head to toe and slowly let that gold paint come off in a nice area. Close your eyes, and when it's off your body, it's time to be the game. And Mike, I'm so thankful that you came on. You're the first football player I've ever interviewed, and you are a fantastic guy. Thanks again, and I wish everybody a great day. Thank you for having me.

Mike and Stefan, thank you for the compliment. I appreciate it. Cheers.