Part 1- Robert Langley - From Hockey To The Grand Canyon!

Mike Hartman, performance mindset strategist. This is develop the mindset of a champion with former Stanley cup champion Mike Hartman. Welcome to another episode. Today is so special for me and I'm gonna tell you why it's special. Today I have my good friend Robert Langley, who was my mentor, my friend, my brother. I do have a brother, but this is my other brother and somebody who I admire so much. Bob.

How are you, Mike? I'm good, thank you.

Well, I just have to go back. I know you're modest and I'm just going to share, God, I'm going to share your story. This is about you, not about me, but I'm going to make it about me a little bit. So I'm 16 years old, I grow up in Detroit thinking I know you know a little bit about hockey. And I didn't. I was this young, kind of cocky 16 year old kid and my father decides to send me to Aurelia, Ontario. I did not that he decided we met this agent, Gus Badali, who was Wayne Gretzky's agent. So here I am, I'm a young guy, go to Orillia. And I called my father and I said this is kind of a small town, dad. I, I don't really love this place. And then we found out my friend Gus said who was our, my agent wasn't an agent advisor. I mean he, he had at that time Dale Howard, Chuck, who's, who's greatly missed Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux and oh yeah, the little guy. Mike Hartman is kind of a mentor that I met through another NHL player, Steve Conrad. He says, well, I want you to go to Toronto and it's a bigger city, you can live with a family. And I end up in Toronto. And I'm going to let you finish it from here because the rest is, it's not history. It touches my heart and we're going to talk more about that. So Bob, please share a little bit how we'll pick it up from Toronto, from those days in Toronto.

Yeah, so it's kind of one of those stories where when you look back in your life, you think at the moment it was insignificant. But now if we, if we travel forward 35 years, we've been, you know, friends from, from that day forward and have spoken almost every day for each day, for, for the last, I don't know how many years it is now 40 years. And so it wasn't insignificant, but it's just one of those moments where I was, you know, it was a pre, it was Preseason. I had played for the Ottawa 67s the year before, and I was going to stay home and play in the Ontario Hockey League or the Ontario Junior Hockey League, which was at the time the North York Rangers. And Ted Tobias was the coach. And I was standing up in the stands and, you know, it was one of those preseason games where they're watching the rookies and, you know, for, I don't know anybody really. And I'm looking at this kid and he's got white skates on. And, you know, the only time you ever saw white skates in hockey prior to that was with way, way back, like with the California Golden Seals, you know, So a kid wearing white skates was, I guess, novel. But I said to Ted, I said, who's this kid? And, you know, he said, oh, it's Mike Hartman. I said, are you keeping them? Or is, you know, is he gonna make the team? He says, yeah, I think we'll keep them. And for some reason, I have no idea why to this day. I said, well, why don't you? Why don't you? Where. Where's he staying? And I think at that time you were staying with, you know, a couple other. Other guys, God knows where. I. I can't remember. It was like a home in Streetsville or something. I said, why don't you. Why don't you see if you, you know, he wants to come live with us. And, you know, I hadn't even spoken with my parents at that time. And long story short, you know, you end up living with my family. And it was just one of those things, you know, it was, you know, if you fast forward that year, it was truly like a brotherhood. Like, you drove me crazy, and I probably drove you crazy, but it was. It was truly like a big brother, little brother kind of relationship that we had.

It sure was. Well, just to clarify, when you say white skates, there were the graph skates that had white and have white figure skates out there for those who don't play hockey. And I would stay. And I tell you where I was staying. They put me with a family in Streetsville. And this lady, I remember her name, her name was Moira. I don't know how I remember her name. Moira. I lived there for like a week, and she made me do hospital corners. And I'm this kid. I grew up in Oak park, lived one year in West Bloomfield, which is a little bit nicer. I grew up in Oak Park. I didn't make my bed like that. I was 15, 14 years old prior to that and next thing I know I'm 16 in Canada. She's going, you got to do hospital corners. And then talked to Ted about it. So then he probably, he probably twisted it somehow, finagled it so I could live with you. And I know you're 20 years old and, and then he told me, I think we're gonna movie with Bob Langley. And Bob played in the ohl. He was, when he played with the Sutter brothers from Alberta, where he's from. He's one of the toughest guys ever to play the game and he played in the ohl. I go ohl, that's kind of my dream. He goes, well he's gonna show you the way. He's our leader, he's our captain and he's probably one of the smartest people you'll ever meet in hockey, which I agree to this day I've never met. You know, you've been my mentor and coach even to this day and that's how I got in coaching. And we're going to talk a little bit about your story, but this is how much it meant to me to get you on and I was so excited to have you on but you really helped me and you know, you're a big guy so it was intimidating for me. Here I am, the 16 year old punk coming out of Detroit AAA, scored ton of goals and next thing you know I'm playing, I'm playing with Bob Langley who played in the, the Ontario Hockey League for Ottawa and wanted to figure out how to get there. So it was great. But going back was, was a lot of great years and I just wanted you to share your story a little bit about you and you know, how you built up, you know, in your coaching business and just share a little bit about Bob Langley, where you grew up, where you're from and on. People, people want to hear it.

Well, I'm a western boy. I mean I live in Toronto now, but I'm a western boy. And that means something to anybody, you know, for anybody that grows out in the west. And, and I grew up in a time and place that you know, now is rather ancient and foreign even to me in the sense that, you know, Calgary at that time was, you know, a smaller city and community meant something and so we knew our neighbors and you know, there was a real sense of neighborhood. There was Lake Bonavista, there was Sherwood. That meant something like, you know, where you lived and it was a different time and place. So I grew up in Calgary that way and I also, my Grandparents, actually, my mother's aunt and uncle, but my mother was raised by them, were the Southern family in Calgary, Alberta. And if anyone is in Alberta, they know Adco and they know Spruce Meadows and they know the Southern family. And so I grew up in the summertime at Spruce Meadows, and that meant that, you know, we were around horses and sort of, you know, farm life and Big sky country. And I went to Glenn Sather's hockey school in the summers in Banff, Alberta, for about four years straight. And we would drink water right from the, you know, the rivers right by the rink, and we would stay up in Sunshine Village, the ski resort, and. And run the. The mountains up there. So these were, like, early imprints for me. And, and, you know, they spoke a lot in terms of my relationship with the game of hockey as well, because, you know, hockey was embedded in that community. You. You. You know, they were one in the same in many ways, and the experience was different. I mean, we. We literally. People talk about it tonight, today, like, like a heritage, but I lived it where, you know, we were flooding the rinks underneath the stars with our fathers, you know, at nighttime in the community. And so it was, you know, a much different experience. I. I ended up playing the Alberta Junior Hockey League when I was 16 or 17 years old. And then my father, who is a shopping center developer, worked for Cadillac Fairview, and he moved east. And I ended up following and ended up playing, you know, with the Ottawa 67s at a time when we were a pretty good team. We were ranked, I think, number one in the country for a couple years in a row. And Ottawa won the Memorial Cup, I think, in 84, and played for. For Brian Kilray, who was, you know, undoubtedly the. The, you know, a mentor for me and a guy that I could learn a lot from in terms of coaching. And I played in the minors for a couple seasons or parts of seasons for Rick Dudley in Flint and another guy named Derogier down in Flint. Those weren't altogether great experiences. I felt like the game had. Maybe I had. I hate to say it, but in some ways I felt like I had outgrown the game in the sense that what I wanted out of life, you.

Know, you didn't want to live. And I know we talked about you didn't want to live in Flint. I remember I was playing in the Sabres organization and they wanted you in Rochester. And I think you said, you know what? I don't want to do this. You didn't want that life. And there was nothing wrong with it. But then you go on to you. You know, you don't do that. Life and fun. It's funny thing is, I asked Rick Dudley, I said, hey, my friend is Bob Langley. And his eyes lit up. He goes, probably one of the toughest guys I ever had. And then I asked my old coach, Bert Templeton. Hey, Bob Langley says hi. This was in Junior. You told me to say hi to him. He says, I don't want to talk about that guy. He beat up half my team. One of them was the Hatchers. So you had a reputation, but you're also amazing with what you've done. And I knew nothing about coaching or nothing, or I didn't know anything about coaching or anything about some of the things that you did and how you worked with these companies and what you did. The first thing I want to talk about is your writing. I know you've written a lot. Can you share your writing venture with us, your writing adventure with us?

Well, you know, in my early 20s, I mean, I guess the ironic part about me, I remember a guy named Jack Faulding in junior Wrote an article, and he kind of gave me a nickname that stuck in some circles. He wrote an article and called me Battleship Bot. And so that stuck a little bit. But, you know, the people that knew me called me the warrior poet. And that was probably more reflective of my personality. And, you know, I was. I always had this leaning towards taking whatever life was giving me and learning from it. And it's become very popular today as a movement almost. And that was, you know, I. I started to kind of capture, you know, whatever was coming my way and journaling about it and. And, you know, really I was a, you know, a hack, but I was capturing, you know, my life experiences. And later on, you know, I started writing. But I got to tell you, I mean, few people. There's been. Few people have seen or, you know, read me. At a time when everyone's pushing out their blogs and things. I. It's kind of been a private part of my life that I shared with friends, which, again, kind of speaks to my upbringing and who I was. We never. We didn't want to be the star. You know, we, you know, if. Back in our day, if. I know I'm dating myself, but I, you know, I almost think that these are important distinctions to make, is that if you were walking around with a camera back when we were young, taking pictures of ourselves, your teammates, and the people around you would be humbling you. You know, they would be laughing at you. So Right. So, you know, they'd be saying, you can't front yourself, like, you know, be humble. And I think that that's lost today. So a lot of times I wrote for myself, then shared it with, with people that I. Where we had something, you know, a common experience that we shared or something that way.

Yeah. Which turned into 10,000, 10,000 poems, 10,000 pieces of literature. Tell me about that.

Well, that was different. That was, you know, that's a project I'm still, I'm hoping to finish. When I was young, I started to capture the best literature and the best, you know, writings, poetry, quotes that I came across. And it went through different renditions. Back in those days, you know, it was before computers, so we, you know, it was a shoebox. And so I had this collection of words and those words fed me. And then it kind of went, went through some different renditions. You know, computers came along and, and I started putting them in with the help of my mother who spent hours, you know, typing these into the computer. They became word files and then databases came along and then the database got converted over to an SQL database on the Internet. And you know, suddenly I'm taking a look and I'm going, you know, I've got over 40,000 of these.

Wow.

And we started to index it, but the intention was pure. At a certain point in time, you know, I called it Dad's favorites. And really it was just me, sort of whatever good in life I could find. I was capturing it with the intention of taking the best of the best and then, you know, putting it into a sort of self printed book and giving it to my son Brody, maybe on his wedding day or something. Something that, you know, spoke to tradition or, you know, legacy. And just a simple thing that said, you know, this is the best I've come across in my life and I want to share it with you. And now we've. Brody jumped in. My son works for Microsoft and he developed a front end for it. So it's kind of like 99% done, but not quite where we can share that idea with the world. And there's different quote sites, but we've done different things with it. We've indexed it so it can help people with and be applied to life's, people's life, specific challenges. And so it becomes a bigger tool to people that it's not just something you go through or browse. You can actually go through an index and says, you know, I'm struggling with this or my aspirations are for this. And you know, what what, what is out there that can feed that idea and let it grow in me?

Wow. That. That is so amazing because I know you. You have so much passion and you're different than everybody. And I'm going to tell people why we have to be direct. The only thing we don't do is use bad language on the show. But we're real and honest. And if we're not real on as honest and hide behind a mask, we're fake. We're fake people. And I tell people about you all the time. I remember I knew nothing about coaching itself. And I said when I got done playing hockey, I told you I'm going to get involved with coaching. You said, what do you mean? Are you going to copy everybody else? What they do? This person does that, and they claim they did it and they saw it on YouTube, even way back then. And you're going to claim you do X, Y and Z. But you had a very unique coaching style. You started coaching Fortune, because I know you're not going to talk about yourself, so I'm going to have to pull it out. But you work with Fortune 50, Fortune 500 CEOs, and you have to tell people what you did with that. Because to me, people say, oh, I coach them. I hear people tell me now, oh, I do X, Y and Z. We've done that for 20 years. Okay, tell people what you did in your coaching method. That was so much, was so unique, different than anybody else, what you did with the CEO. And I don't now if you're allowed to mention the companies. I don't want to, but I know there's some of the top companies in the world, and you have to share this. And I've never done it. It's not my style of coaching. But you have to share your style. And what you did with those Fortune 50 companies.

Well, yeah, that's. That's. To really grasp that, I have to go back a little bit into, you know, how I got into coaching, because it shows me I really didn't choose it. I. After my hockey career, I started an asphalt recycling business. And that's where I had some of my greatest successes. I built that business up to where, you know, it was a going concern. And. And, you know, I operated it for about five, six, seven years, maybe more, maybe eight years. And I was recycling highways, shopping centers. I had, you know, went from zero like it was nothing. I was sealing driveways, you know, when I was 17, 18 years old. And then it be, you know, it became something. So I was Able to buy a home and pay off my home by the time I was about 27, 28 years old, maybe around 30, around there. But I was getting offers and for that business from a larger company. And I decided to sell it and go into paper shredding, which I thought was cleaner. And I did that. I built a franchise prototype around it. But that's the good, you know, kind of the good part of the story, because right after that, I launched that in Atlanta. And I ended up, you know, going through the dark period of my life where. Where I was in a trauma hospital. I, you know, they found out that I had essentially a broken neck at C3, C4. I was starting to fall down, My hands were shaking. And, you know, very quickly, I end up in Hamilton General Trauma Hospital. Two people passed away next to me, and I'm having, you know, some fairly significant life experiences that are happening. And I came out of there and I wasn't the same. I was in pain every day. I was. You know, it had. There was damage done to the cord itself. So I was. I was feeling, you know, issues with mood. You know, I was down, you know, and I was lost. I was really lost. And one day, probably five years later, you know, I've been struggling with this. I'm on the Internet and I see this exercise. It was just simple exercise, 50 smiles. And so I looked at it and said, gosh, I'm not sure what, you know, makes me smile anymore. And so I followed this document, essentially. And at that time, coaching was emerging. It was emerging as a new practice. I didn't know what it was about. And I followed a few different programs until I found one that was an elite program in Santa Barbara. It was called the Hudson Institute, and it was founded by Frederick Hudson, who was the founder or one of the fathers of adult education. And I end up going to. Following this and, you know, in this program, and I go there, and they weren't going to let me in. I was a hockey jock. And these were all, like, very. Their standards were high. That was one of their premises, is you took your life experience and then added coaching to it. So a lot of them were, like, from Harvard people with three master's degrees, PhDs, and, you know, there I was. And so I got out of there and I started to follow my own paths. I started to look at ancient practices of transformation and change, knowing that we're all going through change today. And also at the life cycle. I came out of there and long story short, I was asked to coach a Hockey team. I coached that hockey team. But I started to enact rites of passage for my team members and you know, at a time when their kids were adolescent and we would took them, we did body casting of each kid and you know, under the theme of take a look at yourself and self awareness. And we took them away for 10 days up until Algonquin. And they had to, you know, become self sufficient and learn to take care of one another. So we did all these and we did challenges and we did them after heroes. There was the Terry Fox run, there was the Muhammad Ali, and they were all based upon character and values. And so this was. But the team did well. I mean, Steve Mason was on that team that went on to have an NHL career. Another boy went on to captain. Matt Price, captained the Boston College for two years when they won the national championships. Eight kids were drafted. So it wasn't just, you know, some feel good personal development program. It, you know, we had, we had success. And it translated onto the ice. And I published a magazine or a book on it with the kids, journals, pictures, I made it visual. And it ended up finding itself to the Boeing Leadership Center. And a lady there who I'd worked with and went to the coaching program in Santa Barbara was showing it around and she said, you know, there's somebody that wants to do your program. And her name was Dina Hyde and she was, she was a vice president for one of Boeing's subsidiaries that built drone helicopters. And you know, suddenly I'm out in California delivering this and you know, I never stepped into a Boeing building. I mean, I took them out into my world. And I remember I said to one of the ladies I was working with, I said, well, you tell this executive you're working with I take this seriously and if she does too, she'll leave with me for 10 days. And she says, no, I can't do that. I can't do that. I said, well, you know what I do? So you've called me, I'm coming to do what I do. And so I'll leave it with you. So I got there and I had a meeting with Dean at the time, and we went in a sort of a secure room, you could say. And I gave her a little presentation and said, you know, I take this seriously and if you do too, you'll leave with me for 10 days. And she said, you know, I'll clear my calendar. And off we went. And I took her to monasteries above Santa Barbara and immersed her into experiences for 10 days. And when I got back she gave me a list of her people and said, you know, I want to coach these people. And so that's. That's what happened. I started taking people on 10 day journeys down into the Grand Canyon. And we did everything from hot air ballooning to whitewater rafting, to canyoneering, to driving Formula One race cars. And it was all experiential but very real and with a level of intensity to it. So that's the broad strokes of it.

So then the word gets out about you, and then you do this Race Across America. And that was amazing. When you told me you were doing that, I said, like, we're talking years ago. How many years ago was that Race Across America?

Well, it's held every year, but, you know, it's probably 12, 13 years ago that. That we did the Race Across America or that my involvement was in it.

Can you share that experience and tell us about that?

Yeah. So this was. I was hired by a fellow named Kevin Wallace. Kevin owns about five retail stores here. He's the largest specialized retail dealer in Canada. And Kevin, I had taken on his very first bike ride when he was young, and I was using road cycling to train for hockey. You know, they'd never do that today, but that back in those days, that's what I was doing. And so he came to me one day and says, you know, I want to do something in cycling. And I took him on his first bike ride and he built up this chain. And prior to the Race Across America, he had done with George Barnett, who is, of course, everyone would know from Survivor, but what people may not be familiar with is before that, he did something called Eco Challenge. And so Eco Challenge was essentially, you know, they would take people to exotic places and throw them into just extraordinary circumstances on a challenge and then watch them, you know, unravel, basically, because that makes good TV. Right? And so Kevin did this with Marty McBean, who is an Olympian rower here in Canada. And the store, as the story went that he shared with me was that, you know, they. They truly started to unravel and under the stresses of this race. And now he was going into the Race Across America and he didn't want to unravel. So he said, you know, I want you to be the team captain, put the team together, train me so I can get across this thing. Because 50% never finish it. And on top of it, we need to raise a quarter million dollars for charity. So suddenly I'm in this. But the setup for this, for the Race Across America, Outdoor magazine rated it the Toughest adventure race in the world. Above the Iditarod, above, You know, the, the sailing around the world. There was a, you know, to put it on a scale. The. They had a scale that they used in terms of difficulty, etc. Etc.

Does this start in Canada? Does it tell me how far it is?

So it's essentially like close to 4,000. The race across America is literally a race across America. It goes from San Diego across to Atlantic City. Oh, on a bicycle. On a. On a bike. Right. On one bike. And, you know, the winner, I understand, like a couple of years ago, did it in seven and a half days. It takes five days to drive, so there's no sleep. There's sleep deprivation. You know, I think there's been three or four people that have died in the process of trying to attempt this crossing. There's been individuals who have done. Climbed Everest and done the Race Across America and have said, you know, probably Everest is more dangerous, but the Race Across America is more difficult.

How does the tires on the bike last? Or do you stop for food? What, do you have to go to the bathroom? Like, what?

Hey, life gets very real. You know, you're. You're consuming suddenly 10,000 calories. You're the first pull out of. Out of San Diego, you know, ends up towards the end of the first day, descending into the Mojave Desert, where suddenly it's 130 degrees. And so when your body's taking in 10,000 calories and all of a sudden the Temperature is at 130 degrees, it'll try to get rid of heat any way it can. So, you know, there's. There's gastrointestinal issues. You're driving by and, you know, you see riders, you know, with intravenous into their arm. I mean, it gets real, real fast. And then it just grows and grows from there. In terms of the difficulties that you have to overcome to get that bike.

Across the country, that's an incredible story. We're going to keep talking more because you're going to be on a lot, because like I said, I've met hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. Can I repeat myself? And hundreds of coaches. I've never met you, Bob. And my philosophy is different. But it's funny because anytime a coach. We see these coaches today or these personal development people today, they come out like they're. It's all the same. What do you call it? Regurgitated. Is that the right word? Where it's.

Yeah, regurgitated.

Okay, regurgitate. So it's. It's the same stuff, but the stuff that you have is completely different. Like, I remember you had five PhDs, psychologists asking for you to be their coach. So for you to coach them, I mean, and that, so you get into the depth of psychology. But really, you know, you're not a psychologist, you don't have that background. But your coaching style is one that you get results, one that is, is not easy. You have to have a lot of discipline to go through your type of program. That's been fascinating.

Well, I think whenever you do anything that's real, I mean, my, my, my learning along this path has, has been, you know, that I feel blessed by, has, has been extraordinary in terms of the experiences that I've had to do. I mean, and I've had my own. I got to tell you, when I did the, some of the, you know, taking people down the Grand Canyon, for example, and we did canyoneering, I would never ask anyone to do anything that, that I wasn't willing to do. So I would always go out and do it first and then I would take a client out. You know, I just thought that was, you know, having integrity and how could I ask them to do it if I wasn't willing to do it? And I remember the, I had this one challenge, if people remember the movie 128 Hours with Aaron Ralston where a boulder captures or pins his arm to the wall. And to save his life, after three days, he cuts off his own arm to save his life. And so I decided, okay, I'm going to take a client there. I'm going to take them to the spot where he cut off his arm. And so that's what I did. And but the day before we went there, we dropped into the wrong canyon. And what was supposed to be like a three hour canyoneering excursion turned into a 20 hour ordeal for me. You know, I was crawling out of this canyon, you know, just happy to have my own life. But I'll finish that story quickly. You know, this was the type of experience that I was delivering at that time is that I remember, you know, some of the, the executives would come in and they would be full of themselves. You know, they would come in and say, you know, I did in this particular case, I just bought a home in a 5 million, $5 million home in a gated community. And I would play the gesture a little bit and say, how does that work? Like when you lock everybody else out, does that lock you in? How does that work? You know, and he would scratch his head and so he's Telling me about this new home he's got. And I took him to the spot where Aaron Ralston cut off his arm. And I said, we're here. And he said, you know, what do you mean we're here? I said, well, this is where it happened. I said, he cut off his arm right here. And the blood still stains the wall. It's high desert and so it doesn't really metabolize, I guess, or deteriorate. And I said, you know, he was willing to cut off his arm in order to live. What are you willing to let go of in your life to really live? And that was the coaching, you know, that was it. You know, it took him two plane rides, a three hour drive out into the desert, a two or three hour hike to the canyon and then down into the canyon and back. But that was the delivery. And one week after we got back, I got an email from him that said, I just moved, sold the house in the gates of pretension. My family and I are moving back to family and friends. Thank you.

Yeah, and it's the experiences because I do come across a lot of mentors and professionals and I'm always, and I'm not afraid to say this, like for boy Since I was 16 now we talk three to five days a week and, and I know if I'm feeling down or I need someone to talk to that you're there. And I know it. I'm not going to speak for you, but I will vice versa. We're, we're there to support each other as good friends. But, but you actually put people through the tough times. You know, everyone uses these quotes. I used to use them with you and you say, ah, stop with the quotes. Like tough times don't last, tough people do. Everybody starts using that, puts it on their website. And then you would say, oh yeah, come down with me if you want, I'll show you tough times. You know, if, if somebody really wants to see tough times. And then once you experience this, you'll have that confidence. And I think a lot of it is confidence. Is that what you get from some of these CEOs and people you work.

With around the world?

Like, okay, I've done this. I now I could, I could do anything once I could do this.

Well, I think that, you know, there's, there's, whenever you do something that seems impossible, there's a shift that takes place inside of you, you know, because now you're living in a world of possibility. And, and so there's that whole element of it right Is that if you can get somebody to. To actually do something that they did not think that was possible. Possible for them. But there's a whole other area, you know, and I learned some of this from cycling. You know, the idea of the relationship in a hedonistic world where it's just gotten to the point like, you know, if we get in a car, you can turn up your seat to 73 degrees, but, you know, I like mine at 72. You know, it's very comfortable world we live in, and complacency sets in and where's the adventure in that? And so when I started doing a lot of cycling with ultra endurance cyclists, you know, we. You're headed for trouble. You know, you're headed for discomfort and pain and suffering. And there's something about that that is not popular but is, you know, nonetheless true, is that it distills something in you. You know, these people already have confidence, many of them, but what they don't have is authentic experiences. They're reading about stuff, they're watching it on YouTube. But, you know, where have they ever confronted themselves, you know, with circumstances where you can't ask for the manager to complain because it's too warm in the building or something of that, you know, there's only one way out, and that's through. And so that's the gift. That's the gift is when you, you know, you can take people and be with them, not giving them. That's a whole other. We could do a whole episode on. Because I'm done with information. I mean, we were so soaked up with information. But really what it's all about, in my opinion, is transformation, is what can you do with what you know and.

You know what now?

Go ahead. Yeah. And just to. Just to begin to live once again without the prop of a screen. I mean, you know, when you watch somebody a movie, if you watch a movie and we were to do a movie of your life, for most people, it would be a pretty boring movie. It'd be some dude stand, you know, sitting in front of his laptop or staring into his phone. There's no story there. And, you know, so, you know, I'm just a big believer that, you know, I try to stay away from the stuff as much as I can and. And prescribe life. I mean, I think that that's, you know, in a nutshell, that's what we all need to do. We need to prescribe life to ourselves at a time when more and more and more we become spectators.

And I know you get back that up. I'm going to conclude with this. When I used to say, bob, did you watch XYZ on tv? I was going back in our younger days, or have you watched that? You would say, you know, Mike, not really. I don't really watch tv. It's all I do is I've read. I read books and I read books like these philosophical books. And I read and I read and I read and, and. And that's how I get my fix. And this is. And that's my enjoyment. So I. Everything you said is great. It's touched a lot. And there's definitely one thing. You're definitely coming back and we're going to do some of the. We have so many conversations that could help so many people, so we're going to do this again. Bob, thanks so much for being here. Really meant a lot that you coming on, sharing the stories, sharing how you help people, and also giving us a whole different light on things. It was great to have you. Thank you.

Yeah, my pleasure, Mike. Look forward to it.