Phil Bourque -NHL-2x Stanley Cup Champion Falls Off A Mountain

Mike Hartman, performance mindset strategist. This is Develop the Mindset of a Champion with former Stanley cup champion Mike Hartman. Welcome to another episode. Today my guest is my friend Phil bourque. Phil played 17 years as a professional hockey player. He is a two time Stanley cup champion with the Pittsburgh Penguins. Phil, it's so great to have you here today.

Hardy. Great to talk to you, man. It seems like yesterday we were sitting in the New York Rangers locker room complaining about Mike Keenan, complaining about ice time, but also knowing that that team was going to win a Stanley cup, man. It's funny, that was it. 26 years. I think it's gone by and, you know, even though I wasn't on that team, we kind of still have that connection, if you know what I mean. Until. It's great to hear your voice.

Well, you were on the team. I mean, you were to the very end. We'll talk a little bit about that. But you were on the team. You were a big part of it. We did everything we could to get in the lineup, no matter what that was. And remember some really funny things that we could talk about. But just going back over your career a little bit, I mean, you did it the hard way. You are from the Massachusetts area and you made it through. I know you played in Kingston, right? You played for the Kingston Canadiens for a little bit.

I did, yeah, I did. That's kind of a funny story because, you know, growing up in Boston, all my dad wanted was for me to get a college scholarship. Hardy, you know, so he wouldn't have to pay for school. That was kind of the dream. And pro was like so far away because there wasn't a lot of us kids playing in the NHL. It was mostly Canadians, as you know. And so I got an invitation to play in Kingston. It was actually through Jean Ratel, who was playing for the Boston Bruins at the time, kind of his career winding down. And to kind of make this a short story through a mutual friend, John Ratel was in my living room kind of advising me what to do. And I said, john, I want to play NHL. I want to play pro. He goes, I'll get you a tryout. I know the head coach in Kingston, his name is Jim Morrison. Got me a tryout and I left home at 18 and kind of have not been home since.

Well, that's great. And while you played, I kind of remember this. I know you were very versatile. So you could play forward, in defense. Were you a forward or defenseman with Kingston?

With Kingston, I was a defenseman. And the big part of that is my dad was, you know, he really pushed me hard as a kid and really demanded that I play both forward and defense on all teams. All youth hockey teams was on. So yeah, I started out as a defenseman when I went to Kingston.

Yeah, but then you were a free agent. So you got through the. I think you played a year of junior hockey and then you go to Baltimore Skipjacks and you played for the Skipjacks.

Yeah, but I was an invite to the Penguins training camp because I was not drafted. I actually got two invites. One from the Boston Bruins, my hometown Bruins. Right. Hardy. And also one from the Pittsburgh Penguins. And again to get back to my dad, him pushing me so hard, it became a bit of an abusive relationship. I'll just kind of leave it at that, both verbally and physically. So I accepted the invite to the Pittsburgh Penguins. Part of it because the Penguins were not that great of a team and I thought I had a chance of making them, but also to get away from my dad. But you know, having a good training camp, I earned myself a contract but also earn myself a trip down to Baltimore in the American Hockey League which I was fine with because you know, I had a, I had a contract and I had a chance to live my dream.

Well, that's great. You talk about your dad and I'll tell a two second out of a 30 minute story. I was playing in the OHL. My dad took pictures for Detroit Red Wings and he thought he knew a lot about hockey. I love him. I don't want to hurt his feelings, but he really thought he like he knew hockey, but he knew amateur hockey. So I was playing in a, in a game on a Tuesday night. I invited him to come. When I was done with the Belleville Bulls, I was like you. I played forward in defense even back in junior and then I was, I was rated late from the Red Wings. Told my father, you're. He's not going to go, he's not going to get drafted to the, maybe the 12th round if he, if he get. And I didn't get drafted that year. So my father comes to see me skate and I'm out there and I'm playing with some former college guys. And after three minutes he leaves and I go, where is he? I mean I looked up in the stands, it was an empty stand in Detroit. And I go to the phone after and I called my father because we didn't have the cell phones back then. I said, hey dad, where are. He goes, he goes, you just Woke me up. He goes, that's the last time I ever come to see you do that. You're playing with a bunch of crappy guys, guys that are done and you're not trying hard. And I just saw Steve Yzerman, Lane Lampert and Claude Loisel work their butts off after practice, and Mr. Mike Hartman, who thinks he could play hockey, is out flipping pucks and shooting them off the glass. Good night. I said, oh, man, I bet we could tell stories all day long. We have a lot in common there. But that's funny.

Wow, that's a great story. And it's unbelievable that when you're that young and impressionable Ray Hardy, that you don't look at so many years later, that's kind of such a lasting effect. So as much as we had the tough love, right, from our dads, it also is a lesson to all hockey parents, whether you have a girl or a boy, just how influential you can be in a good way, in a bad way, when they're at those years, right?

That's so true. But the old school was different than today, because I remember my father would drop me off at a track and he would say, okay, go run five miles. And we grew up just outside of Oak park and used to go to this Oak Park High track, like, right by Eight Mile Road, and people were passing me. He goes, boy, you're pretty slow. So. And that could be a whole podcast and a whole different story, but I want to talk because what, you know, you did something special. You went as an American. And if you figure back then there's 21 teams, and if. If 10, if. If 10% of the players, I think there were 400 players in the league were American. That means there were 40 plus Americans in the league, give or take, guys called up. So you work your way to the Pittsburgh Penguins the year that Marielle was here, and you work your way up, and that says a lot. We're talking about 40Americans, and right now there's over a million hockey players in the USA that play hockey, and you made it without even being drafted. And that's not easy back then, you.

Know, as hockey players. And I'm sure if I was doing this interview and I was interviewing you, Hardy be the same way. And we don't really like talking that much about ourselves or, you know, the success that we've had. But I'll be honest with you, I'm damn proud of that. I'm really proud that I stuck with it, that I persevered, that when people Said, ah, that Bork, he'll never make it. Oh, that Hartman, he'll never make it. You know, it does give you pride to say, you know what? I had a conviction. I had something in my heart and in my head, and I was ready to do anything, and I mean anything to get there. And all the times that you felt like, wow, maybe everybody was right, maybe I'm not going to make it. That if you do make it, hey, listen, it could have been you winning those two Stanley Cups in Pittsburgh, but it was me. And I was at the right place at the right time with the right people, and it did happen. And I'm really proud of it. I'm proud to be an American hockey player. And I'm proud to say that I stuck with it and I didn't let negative things and negative people bring me down.

Yeah, that's where the mindset stuff comes in. And you were strong like that. And not only that, though, Porky. The one thing that you could do. This isn't the Boost Me up show. I try to bring people on, and I know you're a very modest guy, so I bring people on that I've had great relationships with. Except Eddie O. He's not invited on the show.

I mean, you ask one question, there's your 30 minutes.

Yeah, so, so, so, so. So the funny part is that, you know, like, with you, though, I mean, I don't know if it's funny, but you could skate, you could fly. I mean, you were one of the fastest guys maybe in the league back then, because I remember playing against you so much in Pittsburgh that you could skate. You were also physical to a point, and you could play. So you had all the key elements of a player. And I remember, you know, we. We fought once. I remember you and I fought. It might have been at a game against Pittsburgh one night. Yeah. In Buffalo. In Buffalo, but. And then. Then we got to know each other in Pittsburgh. But I'd like to hear a little bit about the playing with Mario Lemieux. And what was it like winning two Stanley Cups? What was that feeling like?

First, let me give you just a quick story to kind of summarize. Mario, who is the epitome of the natural. So it was after about my first full year in the NHL. I bought a house in Pittsburgh. I got the one way contract. You know where I'm going with this? And I was working out like a madman. I was in the gym, at the rink, renting ice on my own. I spent the whole summer in Pittsburgh, first Day of training camp, we have a scrimmage game. Mario has, like, three goals and five assists. He's unbelievable. So we're skating off the ice. Hardy. I skate up to the big boy. I go, hey, man, you are unbelievable today. You know, modest way. He's like, oh, thanks, Forky. I said, listen, I gotta ask you. I've been in Pittsburgh all summer long. I've been in the gym, I've been renting ice. I've been everywhere working out. I haven't seen you anywhere. He goes, this is the first time I put my skates on. I said, that's it. That's kind of what you need to know about Mario, but to me, he's the best. Nothing against Wayne Gretzky and his incredible numbers. Hardy and I understand the conversations, but for me, and maybe I'm biased. Yes, I am biased. Mario was the greatest player to ever play. He had the size, he had the reach. He's as good a passer as he was a natural goal scorer. He played through so much physically and the physical pains that he had in his back and beat cancer and all that. He had to play with guys like Bob Erie and Troy Loney and Phil Bourque, and he made those players so much better. Did he play with hall of Famers later on? Yes, he did. But just an unbelievable gentleman. You meet him, and you know what I'm talking about. He's very unassuming. He makes you feel comfortable, even though you feel like he's royalty when. When you're in the same room as him. He's just a special, special guy. We don't have enough time on this for me to go on. On how much he's influenced, been an influence on my life, helped me in my second career as a broadcaster. I could just go on and on and on. I just owe so much to him.

Yeah. And I remember, too. Think about this. I think it was Warren Young. I mean, he scored 50 goals back in.

At 49 playing with them.

Yeah, I think Mike Hartman could have scored at least 10 with them. Maybe. I don't know.

I know you could have got the double digits for sure.

Hey, don't laugh. I had double digits one year. I scored. I scored 11 goals, and I think I had 10 goals, 11 assists, 21 points and 60 games on the fourth line. That's not too bad back in those.

Days, considering you probably had 25 fights that year, too.

Yeah. But anyway, so Borky. So you win two Stanley Cups. I mean, tell us about that. Like, I know the feeling. You Were out there being a big part of that team. Share the Stanley Cups in Pittsburgh.

Yeah, well, we knew we had a special team the first year, you know, with Paul Coffey and Mark Rechy and, you know, the list goes on. I don't have to list all the players. You can look it up yourself with a bunch of hall of Famers. But also we had a special coach and Badger, Bob Johnson, that really brought us together. Hardy, you know, he had such a way about him, just so positive. And after really just a run of coaches here that just couldn't get the job done, you know, losing in 1990 in the last game of the regular season to the Buffalo Sabres was really a dagger. But sometimes you have to lose badly like that to realize how great winning is. It was a. From the point that knocked us out of the playoffs, put the Islanders in, it was in overtime, the last game of the regular season in 1990, and it stuck with us. It drove us through the regular season to not have that feeling again. So to be around that great group and look around the locker room and there's Ronnie Francis, there's Brian Trachea, and there's Joey Mullen and Mario and Mark Rechy and I mean, Larry Murphy. I mean, the list goes on. Tom Barrasso and goal. We were a family. You know exactly what I'm talking about. Because we had it in New York with the New York Rangers. It's so rare that to have a group of guys together, not only super talented, but a bunch of egos in there too. Right. But those personalities, they blend. Coach has a lot to do with making that happen. And it's very, very rare. I'll be honest with you. Those two cup years were so special. I found it in New York when we were together there, but I searched for it over and over again after that. I never found that specialness, that chemistry it takes to be a championship team again.

I, I agree. What, What a team that was. I mean, having. And I agree with you about the going back a little bit about Mario Lemieux. To me, I mean, Wayne Gretzky, I. I can't even. You know, I don't want to speak in the same thing, but playing against Mario Lemieux was so tough. He. It looks like he gave you an. Like he looks like he gave you a little bit, and you go for it, and all of a sudden he's. He's got that one stride with that long reach around you. But. Yeah, yeah, but I, I was. It's so happy, you know, being an American player. And then you had, you know, you know, with the coaching stuff there, one thing that he had always say, like Coach Pete would say with Team usa, is put a smile on your face and it's a great day for hockey. And it really was that that makes you want to play so much more. When you. When you have a coach like Bob Johnson who's positive, he makes you feel good whether you're in the lineup or out of lineup. He's a person that is a people's person and a players type coach. And I think I always felt good when I was around coaches like that.

Yeah, it's so unique and it's. It's so rare now, and it's such a difficult thing, and I hate to go down this path, but I really feel it's relevant that, you know, money leads to power and what players are making now, 7, 8, 9, 10 million, that it does give you power. And so the hardest thing, and I'm just going to use the example here, Mike Sullivan in Pittsburgh, you know, and Dan Bosma when he was here before that. It's hard to push these guys, but be their friend, too. That's such a tightrope that you walk. Badger Bob was our friend. You know, he never yelled, he never swore.

Hardy.

I mean, he just had a way about him to be just so positive all the time. I don't know if that would work with the athlete of 2020, because there is just a different mindset that they have. It's a different challenge. Just let me put it to you that way. But Badger Bob Johnson was one of a million. He was a guy that would come up to you, he'd rub your shoulder skating around the ice in practice and say, hardy, I'm going to need you. I'm going to need you. I don't know when I'm going to need you, but I'm going to need you. I need you to stay ready. And you kind of went, yeah, Coach, let me go. I'm ready to go through a brick wall for you. So it was just such a unique thing, a special thing. And I don't know if we'll ever see another coach come along like Badger Bob Johnson.

Yeah. It's funny. I watch the demeanor of coaches and you look on the bench and they look like they're this mean type guy. And I would never say names. I'm not the guy that stirs that pot. You know, this isn't the. There's a couple hockey guys that have shows out there. I'm not going to say their names either. And, but you know, I speak my mind and I speak the truth, but there's coaches that look like they're going to bite your head off and they're nasty then they were the softest guys I ever played against and I can't figure that part out for the life of me. I see guys on the bench, they're, they're folding their arms and they look nasty and it's like maybe somebody you know, was nasty with them or, or maybe they never played at a level. And, and I'm sorry to say that because I, I, it frustrates me because if, if I'm working even in business, let's apply this to, to the business world. And I'm working for a company and I have a, a demanding boss, which is, which is fine. But somebody that cares, that shows passion, that shows love for you and I have somebody like that. I'm going to want to go through the wall. I'm going to perform better. But do you think you're going to perform better when you're on eggshells and we're going to talk about, we're going to get into a little bit. You talked about money and I was going to get into a little bit about that too. Jumping right from one topic to the next. It's the add part of it. But you did sign, I mean a big contract in New York and I, I didn't even look this up. But I like I said, I remember stuff, I just like I used to study the game we play. I think you had a four year contract or five in the several millions over, over four or five years with the Rangers. I think Neil signed you to a really nice deal with the, with the Rangers. Is that true or.

Yeah, that was four years, four year deal as a free agent after winning back to back cup. So back in the day I think it was, you know, ended up being like 2 million I think total. But you know, which in the 500k average was around the average salary in the NHL. And that was in 1992 again after back to back cups. You look at the average salary Now, Hardy it's 2.5 million. That's the average in the NHL. The minimum is 700K. So a lot has changed in 24 years or 26 years. But you know that's, that's just the economics of the game. You know, we went through lockouts and everything else that you know, were tough to swallow back in the day while we were playing. But we knew it was for the the better of the game, better for the current players. But more importantly, I think players in the future benefit. I mean, it's, it's a reality of the economics of the sport.

Yeah, you do. Because some of us have such a short career. Glenn Healey said it best. By the time you're 23 or you might be halfway done with your career or close to ending your career nowadays. So. So even back in our day, it was like, I remember my first contract I was just happy to sign. I was a seventh round pick, had a really nice signing bonus. A lot of the money you made was, you know, team bonuses, more so than personal bonuses. But when I got to the Rangers, that was the highest paycheck I ever had, but it was also the least I ever played. So as much money as we make, we're athletes that want to play. People would say, well, you know, my dad jokes, he said, you would have played for free, you know, And I said it was funny. It was during the Gulf War. I got to hear one of your dad's stories here because we have time, but it was during the Gulf War and I was playing for the Sabres and I was going to, not, I was going to go to arbitration. So they traded me to Winnipeg. I don't know if it was for that reason, but I ended up going to Winnipeg. And Mike Smith, the general manager said to me, said, you know, we're going to offer you a four year contract here. And it was a seven figure contract for me and Ronnie, my agent, I think you had the same agent. He said, let's not do it because things are changing for the better. And I don't, I didn't do it. And they make the longest story the, you know, the shortest. I didn't do it. And my father says, wait a sec, there's people here during the Gulf War, unemployed, not making money, broke. And you didn't sign a four year guaranteed contract plus four years of deferred money because at the Canadian taxes, they were going to pay me like for eight years. My father said, you would have played for free because I'm disgusted. And he hung up the phone. I got to hear one of your. Now I got to hear one of your, your dad's stories. I think we had. We have similar situations here, unfortunately.

I don't know your situation and I don't want to get too dramatic about this, but my dad was abusive and it started verbal and became physical and how hard he would be physically on me, depending on just how bad of a hockey game I had it got to the point where we had a falling out. We didn't speak for 10 years. So, again, I don't want to get too deep in this and make it all about that, but it was a shame it came to that. And I do a lot of public speaking in the Pittsburgh area and talk a lot about it, especially to hockey parents or just sports parents, about pushing your kid and the damage you can do and the examples that I have. But my dad was an athlete. He went to Boston College, played both football and baseball, but I never saw my dad on a pair of skates. He couldn't stand up, but he studied the game. He did a lot of good. Hardy. I mean, I speak badly of him because he did a lot of bad. But also the work ethic I have and the foundation that I had as a hockey player, I owe to my dad. Again, he built a rink in the backyard. He'd be out there at 5 o' clock in the morning with the snowblower clearing the rink so we could skate, me and my two brothers, first thing in the morning. So he did a lot of good, but he also did a lot of damage that hopefully I'll never pass on to my child.

Well, I don't want to misconstrue anything. My father, he might be listening. He'll say, what are you talking about? So my father never did that. My father loved me, he cared about me. And he asked me, do you want to be a hockey player? And I said, I want to be an athlete. I love baseball and hockey. And I said, absolutely. Says, well, I'm going to push you until that age of about. Probably about 16, when I moved away to Canada. And he did, and I'm thankful for it. But he loved me. I was not. I'm sorry, Bork either. It's right. There's no two stories alike. I can never say my father or mother ever did that. They were very supportive, but they were just tough, kind of old school in their own way. So, again, my apologies for.

No, no, no need for apology. It's just. It's life. And, you know, I'm gonna quote Mike Keenan. You remember, he walked a lot around the locker room. He said, life's not fair. Life's not fair. You know, and so, yeah, sometimes life isn't fair, but it makes us who we are today. And if you can get through the bad times like that, you know, hopefully it makes you stronger. Right?

Well, that. That's so true. So talk about life's not fair. We're going to talk About Mike Keenan. That's what everybody told Eddie O. Hey, life isn't fair. So talk a little bit about Mike, because I have a different experience with Mike and I want to hear, you know, tell me about Mike Keenan. And because I know Borky, you and I, and we weren't the only ones. There was about five or six of us, and he was tough on us. I mean, people asked me, was he nasty? No, no, he was just really hard. And you never know where you stood. That, that. That's my. That was my perception. Tell me about. What was your experience with Mike?

Well, first of all, I found it interesting that in 1992 we won the cup with Scotty Bowman as our head coach after the passing of Badger Bob Johnson. So then, you know, Roger Nielsen's there in New York. He gets replaced by Ron Smith and then he gets replaced by. By. By that guy there that he was. Mike Keenan was tough. He was a disciple of Scotty Bowman. Keenan was. So, you know, I had some interesting. Behind the kind of. Behind the closed doors of the coach's office, long, I'm talking about an hour, an hour and a half conversations with Mike Keenan about my play. We'd go off on these tangents and talk about. So he had. He was an interesting guy if you got to know him. But you're right, he was real callous on the outside. He didn't want to really know you or you to know him. And if he didn't like the way you were playing, then he wouldn't give you the time of day. Right. He wouldn't even say good morning to you if you saw him before practice. So he was a bit old school like Scotty Bowman, but. But, you know, at the end of the day, Mike Keenan was not my cup of tea. It's great that he won a cup there in New York. It was lightning in a bottle. He had a great team and he found a way to push the buttons. But, you know, Mike Keenan bounced around a lot because I think he's got a really short expiration date. And I just don't think that's the way I would want a coach to coach my son with that. That fear factor of, of saying things verbally to you, to motivate you that were. Were to me, crossing the line. And you know what I'm talking about the way he would talk to Adam Graves and just the way he would challenge players. And the stories go on and on. Jeremy Roanick has a great story about wanting to fight Mike Keenan or physically confrontation with Mike Keane in the locker room, just not my cup of tea. Not my guy.

Yeah, and I hear you. Like, my kids were never athletes, so my son was an athlete. Everybody within my business today I do coaching and helping people and I want people to have that athletic mindset. But I don't think if anyone ever was verbally talked to the way you may have been in New York, that guy would get fired and maybe that would be a whole other story. So. Yeah, but I wouldn't want my kids to do it. But I look at Mike Keenan as very hard on the outside. But he, he did have somewhat of a heart with me once in a while. Like, I listen, he put me on waivers, and thank goodness that the Flyers picked me up and they had the recallable waivers. When I had that one argument I never had, I never argued or even looked at a coach wrong. And the one day I got mad. I think you remember, I broke my stick over the boards. I was really frustrated. And that was the one day. But you know what? The Mike Keenan today is a gentleman. In fact, we had our 25th and my girlfriend went up and started talking. She goes, I just talked to that guy in the corner, what a nice guy, plays in a band. He said he played outside of Rochester. I said, wait, you talked to the guy in the corner? That's Mike Keenan. You've talked to him more in the last half hour than I've talked to him in 20 and 30 years. He doesn't even know my name. No, I'm kidding. So I like Mike. I've had a lot of great conversations with him. I thank him for keeping me on that team. And I wish you were there, but you won two Stanley Cups. Not that of course you want to win a third, but it was very hard. I remember. I remember my heart was sad for you because I remember you bought 30 tickets. I don't know how I remember this in Boston and because Mike said you're going to play. So I know we only get two tickets sometimes on the road or none, unless you buy them and you got tickets for your family and Mike pulled the plug on you. I don't even think you went for warm ups and stuff like that. I don't understand. I'll never understand it. And that's the part that I don't like. But I. I can't say I don't dislike Mike. I just. I didn't like some of those actions of. Of how things were done. And I don't know if you agreed or disagree. Yeah. You remember that night I'm talking about in Boston, I'm sure, very clearly.

Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. I mean, making good money in New York. And I thought, yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna really go above and beyond here. I'm in. I was led to believe I was going to be in. So I plopped the credit card down and yeah, that was, that was a humbling walk down to the. The area where you meet your family after the game and everybody's saying, what happened? You know, so it was. But that was, that was Mike. You know, I don't know if it's his way of playing games or motivating, but again, I'm sure he's a good guy now that, you know, all is behind him and you wish him the best. But again, there was probably a lot more bad than good in my short experience with Mike Keenan.

Well, and again. And then we had those hard practices together. But, yeah, that's the toughest part. You know, I look back on it and now that I used to be the guy that never said much, and now I have a show and I've had everybody on, and they start telling stories like Glenn Healy, and I almost have to stop them, like. But any so. And not to talk about a really. I don't know if it's a negative thing, Porky, but my. I remember, I, I, you know, when you got hurt really bad, it almost cost you your life. And we don't have to talk too long about that. I don't know if you want to bring that up, but that I. You trained like a man. I mean, you were built how. You were built like a. Not even like a football player, because you were lean, you were fit, you were strong. You took training to the upteenth degree, and then you were training up in the up. Tell us that story. I know you were training up in the mountains and.

Yeah, I'll give you the short version. It was. I'd been traded to the Ottawa Senator. So it was the August of 94, right before training camp, one last hurrah weekend. I was gonna have a, you know, a little party weekend with a bunch of friends on a houseboat at a place called Lake Powell, which is right on the Utah Arizona border. And you're right, I was so into fitness back then that before I was going to have some beers and enjoy the weekend, I said, I'm going to go run some sandhills, get one more workout in. You know, they're like, you're crazy. Just. Will you relax and just have a Beer and relax. I'm like, no, I'm going to get one more workout in and then I can have a guilt free weekend. Well, I went running sandhills. I became a little more adventurous and started rock climbing by myself and ended up losing my footing. Fell four stories straight down. On my way down the mountain, I hit my head on the back of a rock, which knocked me out cold. And so when I was free falling, I ended up doing a face plant When I hit the ground, broke all my facial bones, both my cheekbones, my nose, my forehead was broken, but also broke my neck in five places. So I couldn't be moved. By the time the people from the houseboat, my friends, found me, they realized I was in a lot of trouble. So they were able to get help with the park rangers. They called a helicopter, put me in a basket, and light flighted me to Flagstaff, Arizona, where they found out that I had broke my neck in five places. But if you remember, that was the year of the lockout. The only reason I'm alive or not paralyzed is because I was in such unbelievable shape at the time. Right before training camp, I was able to rehab myself. And because of the lockout that year and the season didn't start until January, I was able to get myself back up and running again and played, what, seven or eight more years after that. So really lucky. But you're right, that training and fitness all the time I put in really helped me big time at that moment.

Wow. And I mean, that just touched everybody's heart. I mean, I read about it. It was like, man, and, you know, you're such a great guy. And I got to, you know, the takeaway is that people should hear if they're listening. People say, well, what does it take to make it? Like, I want to make it in life, I want to make it in business. I want to, you know, what is leadership? Well, Phil, you're the epitome of all that. I mean, you are really, you know, special that way. Now you became a broadcaster. I ran into you last year at Madison Square Garden. You look the same, like you haven't aged. I don't know. I don't know what it is, but tell us a little bit about your broadcasting career and we'll wrap it up. And I just want to hear, tell me your how you like working with the Pittsburgh Penguins.

My 16th year as a radio analyst, I get to work with hall of Famer Mike Lang. And yeah, it goes back to when I retired in 2000. I had a tough time finding work. I went three years without a paycheck, and I was really in a bad place, to be honest with you. So I picked up the phone call. Mario Lemieux, who was part of the ownership group at the time, I said, hey, man, I need help. I need a job. And long story short, right place, right time. Eddie Olczyk went from the television job to behind the bench as head coach. Bob Ehrry, who had the radio job, went up to tv, taking Edzo's spot, and I slid in on the radio side as the analyst. It's the best. I love it. I can't imagine doing anything else. If I can do it for another 15 or 20 years, I will. I don't have this burning desire to be a coach. I've always entertained the thought. But I love broadcasting. I love talking about hockey, and I love talking about the Pittsburgh Penguins. So it's. To me, it's. It feels like a second career. I feel like, you know, traveling with the team and going to the rink every day, you get those feelings again, especially playoff time, you know, those butterflies and everything from when you were a player. So it's just. I've been. I've been unbelievably blessed again. I didn't train for anything else. Harding. So when my career was over, like a lot of players, I was like, oh, now what? I figured I. Excuse me. I made enough connections to go into a second career, but it didn't happen. And luckily, Mario was able to bail me out again. So very blessed and very lucky.

Well, I'm going to wrap it up. It couldn't happen to a better guy. The adversity that you went through, the perseverance, which is something I talk about all the time as important. Important you being an American player, our relationship, I mean, we could talk for a long time. I. You were one when I started this podcast. We have a lot of followers now, and we have, like, different sports organizations listening to us. And one of the first guys that popped up was you. Just because of the guy you are, how hard you work, and people say, oh, you kiss butt a lot. I said, no, I bring people on that are. That are winners and champions and. Borky, thank you so much for doing this. It was great having you.

Yeah, Hari, I enjoyed this. It's a lot of fun, man. You're doing a great job of what you're doing. Keep on keeping on, and I'll see you down the road.

Yeah. Thank you.