Todd Elik-NHL Underdog

Mike Hartman, performance mindset strategist. This is Develop the Mindset of a Champion with former Stanley cup champion Mike Hartman. Welcome to Develop the Mindset of a Champion. Today our guest is my really good friend, Todd Ellick. Todd played over 400 games in the National Hockey League. Played with the Los Angeles Kings. He played with the Minnesota North Stars back in the day. Edmonton Oilers, San Jose Sharks and the Boston Bruins. Todd played. This is amazing, 24 years of professional hockey. We're going to get a lot into that after, you know, within his career. He also played over in Europe for a lot of his career. So he had a really great career overseas. Todd, it's amazing. Todd, welcome to the show. And I call this show the Underdog and we're going to get more into that. So, Todd, you played a lot of years. Please share your story, how you did it and we would love to hear it.

Well, first of all, Mike, thanks for having me. Yeah, it's been a, it's been a great ride. I mean, taking it back to when I was a kid. I lived in a small town just north of Toronto called Bolton until I was 13. Moved to my uncle's when I was 13 in Toronto to play in, in the metro Toronto area. Played Alban. Then I got a invite to the Kingston Canadiens OHL junior club. Made their club as a walk on. Just, you know, worked hard, persevered, toughed it out, played a year and a half there, got traded to North Bay. Getting traded, it's not that for the first time wasn't, you know, you just, you're not lost, but you're kind of, you know, they, they gave up on you. But in retrospect, it worked out really well. I ended up going to North Bay and playing for Burke for a year and a half, which was great. Obviously wasn't drafted to the NHL. Played one year university hockey in Regina of all places. But that year, really I became a man. I just, I had to fend for myself, get up in the morning, get to classes. It was a place for me to play. I ended up having a great year. Sorry, I just got to backtrack. I did get invited to New York Rangers training camp after my junior career was over. Obviously I got cut there. Then I went to University of Regina for the year, got invited back to the Ranger camp, made it through, signed a minor league contract with them and then went on to play in the minors for the Rangers in Denver. That was for a year and a half, toughed it out. First year was really good. I had a Great year. I thought that year, the next year I could actually step in and maybe make the NHL. I thought I had that chance, but unfortunately it didn't work out. Played a half a year there and then I got traded to LA Kings organization, which was in New Haven, Connecticut. Played a year and a half there and actually played a year there under Rick Dudley, guy that you know very well, who's a hard, hard guy. But he, you know, he, he was a groomer. He, he groomed guys to, you know, to play at that next level. And I learned a lot from him and, and I got my chance in December of 89. My first game was in Montreal of all places. And it was, it was crazy because in the minors and I don't know, you play Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and I was pushed. We had a day off Monday and I got a call two in the afternoon from Pat Hickey, my GM in New Haven, saying I got called up and I, I was kind of like, yeah, right, you know, like. But he said, yeah, I had to get to Hartford, which is about an hour away, to catch a 2 o' clock flight to get to Montreal and then play my first game. And I just made it. I just made, you know, 5:30, got in there and you know, you know, Montreal, the Hall of Grounds, and it was just an amazing place. And you know, I walk in the room and you see those jerseys and all the guys that I'd watch as a kid, you know, and it was pretty amazing.

Well, your story is amazing. I'm gonna go back to Junior a little bit because we played together, we were, we hung out all the time together. We kept in touch for so many years. That's why, you know, your wedding party. Yeah, I mean, Todd, it's, I mean, I know your story probably as well as you do. Just kidding. But let's go back to North Bay because we had Bert Templeton, who was the hardest coach and the toughest coach that I think I have ever had, especially as a young guy. So he played for Burt and I know he got the best out of us and I just, I want you to think about these names. So we had, you know, we had guys like yourself, right. So who never got drafted to the ohl, you never got drafted to the NHL. We had Nick Kiprios, never drafted on that team. Darren Turcotte was a six round pick, ended up being a really good long NHL player for the Rangers. Moved on. Adam Burt was a first round draft pick. Dave McIlwain ended up playing in Pittsburgh and he was I think a throw in, Burt said, to a trade from Kitchener to North Bay with us. So he was a throw in. He had a great long career. In fact, I got traded for him in the Winnipeg Buffalo deal. Bill Holder, steady defenseman, played for Washington. Troy Crowder, who was probably the toughest man in junior hockey then. And I. And I and myself, then we had Kevin Hatcher. But Kevin, that's not fair because he was already gone. So. So people could. You could share, like the average. You might get one or two guys that make it to the big leagues in given three years, maybe three or four, depending if it's a great Memorial cup team. What can you say about Bert Templeton and how did he help you?

Yeah, obviously he. He believed in me. He just, like, as a player, you just want a coach that believes in you. And he was very tough, like you said, Mike. But if you worked hard, you know, did what he was. You were told to do, he rewarded you, he played you. He was kind of an unconventional coach, actually. I mean, we were talking about. Even on the bus trips, I mean, coaches used to sit in the front. He. He sat in the back. He took four seats in the back. Like. Like who? Like, you're like. Like, who does that? You know what I mean? And then obviously he would tell us stories about, you know, who's gonna make it. And, you know, a lot of you guys would be pumping gas and bagging groceries, and it was kind of funny. Like, when he talked, you listen, and it was. It was hilarious, actually.

Yeah. He said. I remember when he said we'd walk in the back, he would say, hey, hey, Mike. How are you today? I said, I'm good. He goes, do you feel like you're doing well for me? And I said, I'm trying. He goes, you better try harder. He goes, but don't worry. He says, one or two of you guys will listen to me, and the rest of you guys will be driving a Molson's truck. But there's nothing wrong with that or popping gas. That's what he said. I. And listen, I have. And I'm not degrading what people do, but. And that's how he would get the best out of you. So just. So we're getting on the bus, we're going to go play two hours away. And that was the way he would get into your kitchen. And I think what he did that no other junior team did. I talk to a lot of people, maybe over the years, they did it. He had us up. Didn't matter if we played the day before and we had a day off. He would have us up at 5am before school.

Working out.

Working out and training with the police officer. Remember, I can't even.

I was gone. But I remember the year before, Mike. We were up at 7, had to get to the rink, do a circuit and do some running and then go to school. Yeah, yeah, that.

So he had us up early.

Right.

So by seven o', clock, he had to be there.

Yeah.

And then, you know, after that, it.

Was like he was kind of ahead of the game because he was way ahead of it. Yeah. Like, mentally. Why? He knew how to get the best out of us, really. And he had a good trainer there and.

Yeah, well, Todd, a lot of what we do is mindset. So the mindset of the coach was to maximize our potential, get the best out of every guy. No matter what you did, make sure we practice hard, get us up early so we develop good habits. And that's all a part of preparation. I mean, that's really part of preparation.

So that's life skills, Mike. Just normal life skills. Right.

That's really what it is. So I know your career starting off. Let's talk a little bit about your days in Los Angeles. Share with me a little bit about playing for the Los Angeles Kings. I know Wink Reski just got there that year. It was a great place to play. Please share those days with me.

Absolutely. Well, first of all, to make the NHL was amazing. And then to play for Los Angeles Kings in la, California, and Gretzky in there, Luke Robitaille, Rob Blake, Kelly Rudy, Steve Duchene, all the cast. And for me to be there was, you know, I had to pinch myself, really. I mean, here I am playing in the NHL with all these guys, and I didn't take it for granted. I knew I had the ability and the talent to be there, and that's why I was there. So. But I enjoyed it immensely for the two years. It was. It was just such a great experience, Mike. I mean, I learned. I mean, Gretz would. Wouldn't talk a lot, but whenever he spoke, he just listened, you know. And my first year, I lived with Marty McSorley. He's quite a character. And just. Yeah, just. It was, you know, living on the beach and, you know, walking out your front door. There's the, you know, Pacific Ocean. And I really had to pinch myself because it was a dream come true. It really was. Well.

Well, there's a funny story with la. I don't know if you remember this, because everything we do is about a story, and your life is about a story. And I remember we didn't tell anybody or I had Rick Dudley that year. I would have been gone, but we flew into la. I called you when I got to the hotel. You were there, and I said, hey, let me take a cab and meet you where no one can see us.

Because I don't want.

All the guys are going for dinner with the team. I didn't want to go anywhere, so I said, where do you. Where do you. You know? I said, let's show me around. So you show me. You were showing me around la, Todd. You had a tear in your eye and you said, look at me. I'm a kid from Canada, never got drafted in the ohl. Nobody wanted me. Nobody wanted to be in the NHL. I ended up going back to play college hockey in Regina, Saskatchewan, where most people have to look at a map to know where that is. You go back to Regina and here you are, you go to Colorado as a kind of professional tryout agreement, and now you're playing for the Los Angeles Kings. You're driving around, you're ready to cry every. And I said, hey, let's go somewhere. So you took me to the Cheesecake Factory and there's like four of our teammates, and they're looking at me and saying, take me. I think Marina Del Rey. But back then, the Cheesecake Factory was new. And you just said, mike, I can't believe this. So my day is my goal. I'll never forget this. And I had a similar mindset. You said, mike, I just want to play. I just want to play a game. I want to play a couple games here. Who knows what's going to happen? Well, 24 years later, then you play for the Minnesota North Stars back then, and yet having one of the top scorers in Minnesota.

So.

Yeah. And you're modest about it.

It was a tough adjustment, Mikey, because, you know, I don't know if my ego was big, but I go from a second line in LA playing with Robitail and Taylor. And then I went to Mini and that club just went to the Stanley Cup Final against Pittsburgh and they didn't change their team at all. And I think Bobby Clark made the trade. I think Bobby liked me, but unfortunately, just I couldn't find my rhythm there for a while because they had the same club. And I knew that I'm like, I wasn't going in and being disruptive. I knew what. What it was about. And I bide my time. I was, you know, again from Playing second line in L. A to being. Being in the press box for 8, 9, 10 games, you know, and it's frustrating. I have an ego. Like, I want to play and, and perform. And I eventually found my way there and prove to Bob Ganey that. That I could play. I could play for him.

Well, I know it's tough to get points. You, I mean, again, not drafted. You scored 60, 70 points in a couple different seasons in the National Hockey League. I mean, that's unheard of. I mean, usually a guy gets called up, he scores. You know, you get like 15, 20 points. Even a top scorer in junior. Because even your junior stats were good.

But not. No, not at all.

No, they were. I mean, they were good. I mean, you had, I think, maybe a point a game. But here you are in the National Hockey League and you're averaging, you know, 60, 70 points. It was great. So then you go to the Edmonton Oilers. And how was that experience?

You know, just. We were in a. In a rebuild, and they were trying to find pieces to the puzzle. When I first got there, really well, we didn't make the playoffs, but they were rebuilding. I blew my shoulder out, had surgery and came back kind of healthy for training camp and just couldn't fit in. They just wanted to move me out. So just how it goes. Yeah.

Now, were you on waivers and then you got picked up by San Jose? Oh, that's right. Okay, so you go to San Jose.

Yeah, I was. I was in the hotel with Edmonton that morning, and then I got picked up at waivers an hour later. So I just had to change gesture rooms, just walk around.

How great is that?

A plane ticket? Yeah, so. Yeah, we beat him 31 that night, so it was good.

Any points?

I got an assist on a power play, golf.

Oh, that's awesome.

So.

And then you end up. Yeah, then you're. You end in Boston. I know you played on the second line in Boston. I think you had, I don't remember, a ton of assists. Like maybe nine goals and 50, 60 assists. I mean, that's not a bad way to go. Who was your line mates in Boston?

When I first played, it was Kevin Stevens and Sandy Mogar. Then, you know, obviously things happen. Good, bad. I ended up on a line with Adam Oates and Cam Neely for a while. And I mean, geez. I mean, Adam's probably arguably one of the best centers that ever played, so he made. Made my job easy. And we just seemed to feed off each other really well, so that's great.

So someone's asking Me here. What was it like to play with Wayne Gretzky?

Like I said, I. It was a dream come true. I mean, I, you know, I'm watching on TV when I was a kid, you know, scoring 200 points, 90 goals, and, like, is this guy human? And then, you know, you walk in and you're playing on the same team. It was awestruck, really, but I had to keep my head on. I had still had to play, but it was. It was dream come true, really.

Well, you played on the second line, right behind Gretzky. That's not too bad. But one of the cool parts about la, if you were gonna ask me what was my favorite part, it was going to the form club. Because I'd go upstairs, I go to the form club, and I go, hey, there's John Candy. Oh, hey, hey. Tony Dansey comes over, says hello, and we met a lot of great people. So that was the coolest part about. We're young guys, like, young guys going to la. And John Candy comes up and shakes your hand and says, hey, I enjoyed watching you. I go, really?

I know you're Tom. He's humble, like, he's honored to meet you. That's what's crazy about it. Like, my first game. My first game, actually, I played an exhibition game against the Russians, and we're getting ready to go out and Sylvester Stallone and Kurt Russell walk in just before we're going out. Like, I was like, are you kidding me here? It was just funny because Bruce McDowell would. Would bring in all these actors and. Which was great, but you know what I mean, you're getting ready for a game just to go out. And Stallone was trying to tell Martin. Sorry. How to fight. It was kind of funny. Yeah.

No, it wasn't.

And then.

And they're coming up.

Yeah.

And we had the same agent, so our agent says, hey, do you mind? Alyssa Milan and Tony Danza just want to say hi. No, go ahead. No, tell them to wait. I'm getting.

Yeah. Are you kidding me? Yeah. So I actually went to that show, Mike and who's the Boss? And with my family and Tony made me feel like I was a star. Like, I couldn't believe it. He stopped the show. We have a. We have a really famous person in the crowd, and I'm like, ducking in the corner, like, there must be somebody else here, you know, like. And he pointed me out. It was. He was a great guy. It was amazing, so. Well, you're gonna laugh.

I went to the show as well.

Yeah, exactly.

I Went to the show and then we went to. I'll never forget it. I don't know how I can remember that. We went to Ed Dubevik's after, and I was in a car with. I drove over with. It was Ronnie, and Ronnie says, go with Alyssa Milano. Drive with her. So I'm driving in the car and we get hit from behind and. And like a little fender bender. So here I am, you know, it's funny, in la, supposed to prepare a night before the game, and I'm out at Ed Dubevik's eating ice cream and hamburgers the day before, and it was a great experience. Anyways. That was funny.

That'll go in your book, Mike.

Yeah, well, it's funny. I talked to Nick Kyprios, one of our guys, and he's writing a book right now. And I said, you know, I wrote a little book. He goes, what was it like? Was that half a page? I go, okay, good one. He hasn't changed either.

Oh, I know. He's funny guy.

So tell me about now. So you play 24 years of pro. You had a great lot. A lot of times guys go to Europe and they'll play a year, two or three. Some guys make a career in five. You played in Switzerland a long time, then ended up playing for Team Canada, I remember, in the Spangler Cup. But share that experience. What it was like, I know you had your kids, your family, you know, you had with your wife and everybody, bringing them over to Switzerland. What was that like?

Yeah, well, my last year was in Boston. I was 30. I'm fighting for a contract, and I still believe I could have played in the league. But this Switzerland deal came around. It was like in November, December, and, you know, things are. We're contemplating, my wife and I, and at the end of the year, I couldn't get a contract. And I. I talked to him and I said, well, what do you think about going to Europe and. And Switzerland? And. And we just agreed to it. We said, yeah, we went to Lugano, Switzerland, which is beautiful. It's gorgeous. Well, Switzerland in general is gorgeous. Had my first year there, kind of a. Had a good year there, and then I bounced around again there. I played seven. Seven years in the A league. And like you said, Mike, some guys go for three years. I ended up staying, like nine total in Switzerland, then four in the Austrian League. And I made a good living at it. I was lucky. But to go back again, I'm kind of getting ahead of myself. We moved from Boston to Scottsdale, Arizona because we love the area. Housing was very affordable. And I got introduced to this Mac Newton. He trained professional athletes, baseball, football. I was his first hockey guy. And he changed my outlook on not only in how I trained, but my life period in general. It was just, it was an amazing class. And he just. The mindset, it was an hour class now and a bit, but you stretch for a half hour. Then you would do all manual work like mountain climbers and push up, sit up, suicides, duck walks. But it was so intense and it just made me really fit and not get injured. I didn't miss a lot of games because I was fit. And he prolonged my career 10 years, this guy. It was amazing. We used to talk about him with people in class. We'd go for dinner and he just changed everybody's lives. He's amazing. I still talk to him. I asked, actually. I was training young kids for six years and I wanted his permission to do his class. I wanted his go ahead because I respected him so much. And it was a good class. Kids got a lot out of it and it was pretty, pretty hard, pretty demanding. But when the class is over, you're like, man, I feel good. This, this is really good.

So that's not smart.

Yeah. And then again, going back to Europe, Mike, you know, playing there in Switzerland was great. You know, you play half the games and it was good. It was good. Great life.

That's a great life. So you mentioned about training. I remember in California, I became friendly with T.R. goodman. He had learned, you know, the guy that he had these guys jumping up like T.R. goodman had these guys right in Venice beach, right across the street at six in the morning. Yeah, he had these guys jumping up on a stability ball from the, like jumping. So he showed me how to do that. I was already done. But he knew I was in the coaching business and he had, I can't say the name, one of the top tennis players in the world said, will you come out here and work with one of my tennis players? I said, absolutely.

So I.

But I got to watch. T.R. mayweather was there. Is that the fighter? I mean, it was unbelievable how he was training the athletes. You know, that wasn't too many years ago. So I believe training is everything. Training smart, you train hard, but you train smart. So I have a couple questions here. You know, one of them here is a good one. Did you ever feel like giving up because you had a lot of roadblocks? I mean, you didn't get drafted to junior con. That's an open junior draft. Right. So you had to fight through that. You didn't get drafted to the NHL. You're watching all your buddies get drafted. Did you ever feel like giving up?

Never. Never. I just, I don't know if that's what my parents instilled me or my, my dad. I just, my theory was, you know, you got to be ready at every, every, every time you go, you got to be ready and can't give up. I mean, you just got to keep believing that lights at the end of the tunnel and yeah, just don't give up. Just keep grinding it out. Grind, grind, grind. Just, you know, I'm in the real world now, working in the real world, grinding it out in a real job. And it doesn't really change. You just keep living and grinding it and try to stay positive. I honestly believe a good attitude is, has a lot to do with it. So.

So attitude mindset is everything, for sure.

Who's.

Who is your biggest influence in your life?

My dad, probably your dad. Very, he's very hard, very structured. I mean, he's, you know, be punctual, be, you know, play the game, be early, you know, be maybe a bit of a kiss ass, which you don't want to be, but play that part of the game, you know, so that they like you, you know, and punctuality, you know, being first in a drill, you know, I want to be the, I want to be the guy, I want to be the example. So stuff like that, like little stuff, little stuff for the game, you know.

It'S funny, I bring on so many different athletes from different levels. We had a guy from the NFL that went to the Super Bowl a bunch of times, Mike Lodish, and everybody talks about the same thing. So if there's any lesson to be learned, if you listen to guys like yourself and people that have made it, we like Tom Laidlaw working on a farm, Adam Graves, Matteo, all the guys, they all said the same thing. It's the little things and details. Don Lu said it. He was in hockey for 42 years. And, and maybe people should learn and say, hey, what. What does that mean? Like the little things and details. We said it earlier, right? Like being first in line. What other little things did you, did you work on?

Right, Mike? I. It's. It's unbelievable. I'm glad that you said that because I'm not saying I'm the only one that says it, but it's nice to hear that veteran guys think the same way. And I mean, the guys that coached me in the NHL the meeting wasn't very long. Just win your one on one battles. Blue lines in and out. If you ever play, go back, check hard. But you have to be able to play in your own zone. And that's the thing in NHL. If you couldn't play in your own zone, you weren't going to play.

So yeah, that was so.

Stuff like that, you know, that was so true.

So I have a funny North Bay story for you. And because you left the following year, because I was there, I got sent back from Buffalo and we had an older team. We had a lot of guys that were older. I think we had like Troy Crowder and a bunch of guys.

Lenny Socio was there too, right?

Yeah, Lenny and Kipper. And so a lot of us were already out of school. So they have grade 13 in Canada, but they were done. And so I. That was the year the OHL proposed that they, they will pay for us to go to school if we want. It was all part of the deal because we were giving up. You know, once you play in like for Michigan State, Michigan 48 hours back then you lose your eligibility. So there was a lot of the agents that fought in the league had it that you can go back and go to school. So I get back to. Just got sent down. I started the year with the, with the Sabers. And I get back and the new semester was starting. So I asked Bert why didn't ask. I told the guys like six of them, hey, let's go to school. Nah, I don't want to go to school. I go, guys, go to school, sit in the cafeteria, take a class, take an oral communications course so you can speak better. But go do something. Let's go to school. So we end up going to Canadore College. And the next day, right when practice started, I just got back like three days. Bert Templeton says, get in my office, I need to have a meeting with you. And I go, okay. So I get in the office and he said, let me tell you, I think the school was good, but you just cost us $10,000, which is a lot for a junior team. He says, but don't worry, any guy that fails, you're paying for everybody. So now I had the pressure of these guys, you know, finishing school. So yeah, that's good. Yeah. So back. It's funny how things change. There's a lot of young guys now that I know, even girls that play hockey. Jason Dawe and I see a lot about him. His daughter's playing like girls. Hockey is really picking up now. Yeah, so it's okay I bring this up. I know the LA Kings hired you just a couple years ago to go to China and start developing hockey in China with your family. How was that experience?

Yeah, that I've never. My wife and I never thought we'd like get to that part of the world ever. So Luke Robitaille hired me to start a minor hockey program in Beijing, China. They had a. A gentleman there that had some money. At Org was the. The company name. They were with the Kings and the Anschutz Group. We kind of went there kind of blind mic and just started. We got some help from a couple Chinese people in the office and a guy that could get us players. We actually lived in the rink. They had nice apart, like rooms there. But it was amazing, the history of it all going to the Great Wall, the city itself, I mean, there's Beijing itself. I think there's upwards to 30 million people in the city, Mike. So yeah, it's the driving. We never drove. You couldn't drive. You took Ubers or did. They're called deedees. It was very rich city. People think of China as communism. I think in the outskirts it's. You think like that. But in Beijing itself, it's very rich, very rich country and. But in general was a great, great experience. We ended up having almost 50 kids and we started off, we got it going and the one year was enough. I mean, it was a great experience.

Was that because the NHL was having neutral site games there, they wanted to get hockey, get the attention of hockey going over there. Was that the plan or.

I think Luke really saw the potential of growing the game of hockey in China itself. They've had it there, Mike. They've had other people come in and try it. It's a hard sell. There's a lot to it because a lot of the kids, they only have 10 kids on a team. It's not very similar to our game. They like private one on one lessons. Which hockey? Hockey is a team game. So you can do your one on one lessons, but it's a team game. I have to teach you how to, you know, play as a team. So a lot of the times that the best players would only play, you know, the kids that did that struggled, wouldn't play. And so. But we were fair. We played everybody. We just rolled lines and got in. They needed time, they needed to get better. You need time. So.

So I think I need to hear it from you. I mean, people hear me enough and I think it's amazing. You got it. You were beyond an underdog. Like, people do not understand. You got to remember there's four or five. Like, let's say you're a center. There's five centers on an NHL team, so there's sometimes an extra guy. Or then they got guys. Then they got another four or five in the minors. Then they drafted about a bunch from college and then all the years of the draft, five years before that. So the numbers are tough. And we talked about it earlier. There's a lot of guys that I tell. There are a lot of people that were better than me. And I know you might feel the same way, but what bit of advice can you give to people out there that don't get drafted the first time around or they're just playing hockey for fun? Give us some advice. Give us some underdog advice. We'd love to hear it.

Yeah, Mike, like you said about 10 minutes ago, what motivates me and what keeps me going is having that underdog role. Having to prove people every day you're worth and how good you are. That kind of came set me on the straight and narrow. I just love the challenge. And don't ever give up. I mean, it's a cliche. People say it all the time. Everybody has their own story how they do it. All I can say is keep your nose to the grindstone. Believe in yourself. There's always going to be one person that's going to like you and give you that opportunity, and that's what happened.

And that's really what it's about, somebody liking you. And, you know, we have a lot of people that just play the game for fun and, you know, give the advice. Let's say you just want to play recreational baseball, football, soccer, tennis, volleyball, golf. What's the approach on that? I mean, because you took everything. I know you did everything at 100%, so. Sure. How?

Yeah, Mike, I mean, we all did it. You did it. It's funny because I. The American League is. It's a good league, but to go to the NHL, it sounds kind of stupid, but it's an easier game there. I hate. I don't know. That makes sense because everybody kind of just does their job, you know, if you do your job properly, you're going to be successful. We're in the minors. You're. You're trying to do too much and impress. And so I found that going to the NHL, you know, it was not easier. But everybody just did their job. They're so precise. You know, I. And there's guys that you probably know, you're probably one of them, that they only know one way and it's. It's go. It's a green light. Like, they couldn't play shinny games because they only knew how to go hard. And other guys would be dicking, you know, thinking around and having fun. And guys would snap because they. They couldn't do that. You know, they only knew one speed that was go. So I think guys just get trained. I know. That's what I like. You only know how. Just go. Like go, go, go. You know that's right.

So it's the same. You know, it's funny because we do a lot of work with businesses and companies and it's the same thing. Given 100%, doing the little things in details, having that mindset to be prepared. Your boss may not like you, but it doesn't matter because, Todd, I'm going to end with this. You had a lot of people that didn't like you and a lot of people that gave up on you, but you had the perseverance to move full speed ahead. And, you know, you should be proud. Todd, it was great having you. Great to do this with you and thanks again.

Awesome, Mike. Thanks for having me, buddy.