Trevor Gillies -NHL-Never Say Never

Mike Hartman, performance mindset strategist.

This is Develop the Mindset of a Champion with former Stanley cup champion Mike Hartman. Welcome to another episode. Today my guest is Trevor Gillies. Trevor is a former professional hockey player, played 18 years of professional hockey at many different levels, and he's one of those guys that just knew how to grind it out. And I'm so excited to have you on the phone. Trevor, how are you?

I'm doing good. Well, Heartsy, how are you, buddy? Thanks for having me on.

No, I really love having guys like yourself. You know, we do bring on superstars, we bring on guys that played a long time, but somebody like yourself, I mean, you, the way you did it, the way you had a dream of making it to the National Hockey League, I'd really like for you, without me talking so much. I'd really love for you to share your story, tell us a little bit about you, how you started, how you started in Canada all the way up to your last year of pro hockey once. Just share that story and spill it out.

All right, Heartsy. Well, I actually got to play. Blessed to play. 19 years pro. My man, you know, played in the OHL when I was 15. I moved away from home just like any Canadian kid growing up. You know, I was skating on the ponds and started playing at 5 and played AAA until major bantam and then left home. Got scouted at the under 17. Didn't make that team, but got scouted by the Caledon Canadiens. And my hometown team was the Cambridge Winterhawks Junior B. And I got cut the year before and had a strong camp and my dad, the only way to get out of what, you know, your local hometown teams kind of own your rights. So the only way to get out of that was to go to a higher level. And tier 2 is considered higher, so. Got fortunate to make a great hockey club. Dana Zubris was on the team the second half of the year, so, you know, he went 15th overall and played for the Legion of Doom line in Philly. And so, you know, there's 30 NHL scouts or whatever, how many teams there was back then at every game and every Ontario scout, and we ended up winning the whole thing. My man and I got lucky to have, you know, a bunch of great older guys kind of take me under their wing. A guy by the name of Roger Maxwell won two Calder Cups. Very tough dude. You know, he kind of helped me and, you know, I was fighting 20 year olds and having a great time. We. We didn't lose very many games, so it was A blast. And then got drafted 19th overall, went to the OHL and enjoyed a nice little career there in the ohl. You know, obviously I'm not a huge scorer, but did the job, did the dirty work so the good guys can win, so to speak. And going 19th overall, I had a full school package that I didn't end up, you know, using because I wanted to pursue the dream and went to the east, went to NHL camps when I was 18 with the new York Rangers, actually your former team. And Wayne Gretzky was there and Bukaboom and all the boys, Richter Graves. And I was playing very physical and actually there was a guy by the name of Darren Langdon who's an absolute legend, tough guy. I didn't know who he was and I was kind of back in those days you could be giving it to a guy in front of the net. And I was cross checking him, giving him a little spear in the knee, trying to move this big body. And you know, he turned around and kind of warned me. He's like, kid, you stick me one more time, I'm going to turn around and take out all your front teeth. And so I didn't know who he was. So obviously I was just kept doing it and turn off. He turned around and labeled me and luckily I moved and hit me in the chin and kind of just that that fuse went off and dropped my gloves kind of, you know, saying let's go. And he wouldn't give me a go, which was probably good for me at the time. I probably would have gotten, got my ass handed to me and now it ended up next shift after the period they, I guess the brass wanted to see what I was about. So they sent a guy by the name of Dale Purrington, who I still chat with once in a while. Great guy after me. I should have known better, but I didn't have a clue really. So you know, Wayne Gretzky's on the other inner squad team and all NHL veterans and Dale Purrington's on right D. And then our side is all NFL, NHL veterans and, and me on the lefty and all. Samuelson was my defense partner in camp. All of a sudden the puck drops and big deal comes running at me. We obviously have a, have a great go and you know, going into the training room, getting my hands repaired and stuff like that, all of a sudden Wayne Gretzky walks by and peeks his head in and, and says hey kid. And I like look around, there's no one in there but me. And the Trainer. And I was like, just starstruck and in awe. And he goes, hey, kid, you know, you show. Not without saying the word, try not to swear. Pretty much. You showed a lot of guts out there. Great job, kid. So, you know, that was kind of my introduction. And then went back to junior and the next year went to LA Kings rookie camp for a couple weeks in Thunder Bay and then went to main camp and did well. Rob Blake was my defense partner, so I'm sure he made me look pretty good. That's all I had to do is be on a 45D to D, make a simple play to the middle or up the wall or. Or off the glass, and ended up making Lowell. But they got a couple NHL guys sent down, and Bill Hewitt and some other tough guys. Eric Cairns was there. So then I went to the East Coast League. Bruce Boudreaux was my coach, and instead of sending me to Trenton, he sent me to the team that he won a Calder cup with the year before, and the Biloxi Mississippi Seawolves, and started my career there, man.

Well, I love it. And so everything. You know, it's funny how we started to. To get to know each other, and we'll get into that a little bit, but the neat thing is I'll share a little bit. Everything's about a story, so we talk about stories, mindset and champion, and you got some good stories. You had the mindset. You're a champion of my heart. And I don't say that to everybody, just the way you played and. And I know a lot of guys that have played with you, but you're gonna laugh. So we had this kid come in. I was the captain of the Hershey Bears. That was a really tough year for me. I pulled my stomach muscle, then had surgery, won the Calder cup, and my job was to take care of this one kid who came in, and he's a little bit of a piece of work. You know, I just recently talked to him. Was Roger Maxwell.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I took care of Roger. It's a crazy story about him, and we need, like, three hours to tell his story about what happened with him and. And Bob Hartley, who was our coach. And I felt so bad. So, to make a long story really short, he ended up having to fight somebody in practice. And I felt really bad for him. I said, roger, you're coming with me to eat at the Hershey Diner. And I just told him, you know, he was really mad. He was ready to go home. He came to us from maybe Mississippi. I can't even remember he did.

Yeah, it was before I played there. Yep, he did.

How did I remember that? I don't even know. So anyways, he comes in and I took him under my wing. Really a good guy. Then you mentioned Darren Langdon, which people should hear this like. So with Langdon, we talk about stories, he gets to the team, which wasn't great for me because that was the second year right after the lockout. That pretty much was it with me in New York. But he comes in and Mark Messier asked him. We were in Montreal and Mark Messier had somebody come in and size them up with a, with a sport jacket for, you know, just, just did this whole measuring thing on him. Darren gets in the game later that night and has little, a little n.

Little nice tailored suit. You need that, you need that in the National League.

Well, he showed up in a suit coming from the Miners. That really wasn't nice. You know, he's a kid, I think from Newfoundland that didn't have a lot. And Mark Messier, talk about leadership, gave him this beautiful wardrobe that they, you know, they custom made that day. You get a lot of custom made suits in Montreal and said welcome to the, to the team and welcome to the National Hockey League. For Langton, you mentioned Dale Parenton and I actually played with him here when the Range. I was a player coach in Charlotte and part of my job was to help the young guys. If you want to talk about beauties, we had Eric Bolton, we had Andre Wa. We had Dale Parenton and one guy said our team was illegal, just to name a few of the knuckleheads we had. And Parent. So I know, I know parents. And so if you're. He's another guy actually I'm going to have him on the show here. So it. Hockey is a small world. It's funny how things work out and you know, talking, talking more about you. So you. My understanding. Hey, I got, you know, I try to do my best research on guys. So you played 19 years instead of 18. But you played in one of my favorite places in the world at Southern California. I was going to move out there. You ended up playing your first game with Anaheim. I love that area. Corona del Mar, Newport Beach, Laguna. Tell me, your first NHL game and how did it happen?

Well, we, you know, I played for the AHL team in Portland, Maine. Great spot, great town, great fans. We had a great team. You know, Zenin Konopka was on that team. Tim Brent, Curtis, Glencross turned into. He was on my line, fourth line and he ended up turning into like a 30 goal scorer in Calgary. Pierre Parento, Penner Ryan, Shannon Getzlaff Perry also played for a little while with us. Bobby Ryan came out of Junior Shane o'. Brien. I mean this, this is a who's who of who got to the NHL. There wasn't many guys that never made it from that game. And Kevin Deneen, who I believe you played with, great guy, it was his rookie year coaching and I loved having him as a coach. So we started the year, I don't know, I had like a bunch of fights, like, you know, a war with Josh Gratton. Just a bunch of fights to start the year. I think like six and four games or you know, pretty much a fight, a game. And then, you know, big Derek Boogard, may he rest in peace. You know, he was, he was huge. He was just like the Duck Killer. He was just killing everyone he fought in the league. You know, he got the better of Fridge, who's a great guy as well, Todd Fedoric and also Kip Brennan, a great guy that I've, I fought Kip a few times and super tough dude. So I got the call, I got called to the front of the bus and Kevin Deneen told me I was getting the call and I was a little banged up, to be honest. I probably should have been a little smarter in that fight, but my mentality was, you know, you're going to make me or break me and was doing well and, and then he caught me. I couldn't even tell you if the punch was hard. It was like, you know, an awesome steak knife going through butter and filet. You know, I lost a few minutes of my life. Concussion protocol was pretty lax back then. Went and took the old sniffer and, you know, put some, you know, ice bath water on my neck and face and then passed all the tests and went back out and tried to fight him again, to be honest, in that game. And you know, fortunately for me, he, he didn't take the fight because I might have been messed up and might have cost me my career. So it was one of those things. It was a huge learning experience. But you know, I had that mentality where, hey, this is my job. This is what was expected. Met with Randy Carlisle watching tape and you know, that one kind of made me go back to the drawing board and I went back to being, you know, obviously once I got healthy, went back to being what I call the high paid babysitter for the kids in the AHL and just be a great teammate, good in the Community and a good, you know, do what it takes, like I said, for the good guys to win. Playing for the crest on the front, not the name on the back, and. And just really never got another shot. I kind of seemed like I messed that up. And then, you know, became an unrestricted free agent and went to sign with Carolina. Played two years and out was the last cut pretty much both years. Played some preseason games and then was doing my thing in Albany. Had a bunch of great guys there and great coach and two great coaches in Tom Rowe and Jordy Kinnear and. And then ended up having. Sustaining a bad concussion. And, you know, we take our helmets off in the HL because of the visors and I was fighting Paul B. S and ended up hitting my bare head on the ice. Lost balance. I was winning the fight at the time too, and that one took me for a loop, man. I was like 50 something. Games I missed. And I had a lady tell me, you know, you should never play, you should never hit, you should never, definitely never fight again, in her opinion. And she wasn't going to clear me, you know, Carolina neurologists or whatever. And I looked her dead in the eye and politely and I said, ma', am, no offense, but unless you have 115 to $600,000 a year, that's what I was currently making, was 115 to support my family. I have. I have kids and a wife. I promise it might take some time, but I'm going to get healthy. I'm going to train harder than ever. So I was doing private lessons like five, six days a week with my fight coach, you know, skating every day. I was in the best shape of my life and I pretty much told her I plan on coming back, I plan on hitting more, I plan on fighting more, and I promise you, I'm going to make the NHL. And she looked at me and she told me she thought I was crazy. And I said, well, you might be right on that, but this is what's going to happen. I've given my whole life to this job and this goal, and if I don't make it, I'm sure going to be giving it all I have until I can. Can you hear me, Heartsy? It's. It's kind of.

I hear you great. I hear you great. So one thing I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you is, it's like I tell people, like, hockey is a hard way to make an easy living for the most part. You know, if you're in the minors, it's a it's, it's even tougher. But the thing that you have to feel proud about is that you actually did play in the National Hockey League. You made it. And there's so many great players that you came out of North Bay a lot later than I. That I did. But we had a lot of great players even in North Bay. And we had guys that made it, but there were so many players that did not make it. So for you to play that game, I mean, look at a guy like your brother, played college hockey and very talented, but you fought your way, you worked hard, and this is what we try to teach people. It's that mindset that you said it and you could hear it in your voice. You had the mindset, no matter what, you're going to make it. So you played that first game. Was it in Anaheim or where was.

Yeah, it was. It was at home. You know, I can tell you how I felt like in warm ups, you know, the deal. You played in the league, it's phenomenal. The Never Hungry League, I call it. They're always giving you some amazing food everywhere you go. So five star hotel. Yeah, exactly. So just all the hairs on my body and my arms standing up and warm up and during the anthem, I mean, you know, obviously it didn't go the way I wanted, but it's. It's something no one can ever take away. Whether I only got that one game or not, obviously I was fortunate enough to. After having that talk with that neurologist to get better, I kind of snapped right out of that fog. I was already working out every day trying to get better, you know, not full on hardcore workouts, but, you know, kind of going through it to, you know, to see where I was with symptoms and was doing very well. Kind of bounced right out of it. June 4th and had to go earn a contract. My agent couldn't get me a two way anymore, so I had to go earn one. Went to Rochester on trying out for an HL deal and they obviously had a great camp, was in phenomenal shape from all that training I was telling you about. And they were only gonna offer me a pto. And when you have a family, you can't, you know, you can't have kids, enroll in school, living in a hotel. So my agent got on the phone, had a couple fights and I obviously did well in those. And he got back on the phone with some of the teams interested because I proved that I was healthy. No one wants a fighter with a bad head. So it literally had to go in 10 minutes before pregame skate on the first game and go shake everyone's hand and tell them, you know, thanks, because I mean, there were some good old legends on this team. Mike York, Jamie Johnson was there. Fitzpatrick, there's, there's a bunch of guys, Graham Mink and my wife, super good friends with his wife. So we were kind of excited to be there. But they, you know, there was no security on that pto, you have a bad weekend, you're done type deal. So I just head out, I went in, thanked everyone and he got me an HL one way to go play in Bridgeport and made the NHL. Six months later I got the call on my 31st birthday and went up and played against the Flyers and, and got blessed, you know, to play a little boys and girls game at the highest level, which is the ultimate dream. And was fortunate enough to kind of be an old school player that the Islanders liked. Had a mustache and the last name probably didn't hurt. Hurt with Clark Gillies, who's not related, but being a Hall of Famer and just banging bodies and fighting for the boys, you know, no matter what, no matter what, I was there for him. And they took great pride in and truly enforcing, not doing the old, hey buddy, you want to have a ghost or irrelevant. I'm a real old school and I loved every minute of my job and got blessed to be rewarded for, you know, about two years there. So it was amazing, man, that's, that's great.

But so, so people should understand because it's, that's not. Everything we do isn't about hockey. It's about hard work, determination. And what you did was you play the one game in the NHL. Then I think it was like three or four years later you went to the island or somewhere around that time span that you end up going to the New York Islanders and playing parts of three seasons. So in my eyes, what you did is you fought your way, literally fought your way back. You know, every team needs guys like you. And I'm thankful for, for one thing, I'm thankful that when I played for the Rangers, I didn't play against you. I was a middleweight, man. I don't. The big guys like you. I was like, oh, no, really? You gotta like you like you like guys like Link Gates and big guys like yourself. The one thing about you, you're. You're a smart big guy and you could play, you know, you could skate and play, but they had you up there for your physicality and you did it, man. You Played for one of my least favorite teams. I shouldn't be saying that, but I had, I've had a lot of great friends with the Islanders over the years. Pierre Turjan, who I just spoke with recently, and Benoit Hogue and a lot of good guys that I know that, that played for the Islanders. Clark Gillies was my roommate with the Sabres. So I'm.

Oh, that's cool. That's really cool.

Yeah. Yeah, Clark.

Clark and his wife are great, great, great people.

Yeah. So you did it. You're part of the alumni. In fact, I was in New York because MSG shares the channel with the Devils, the Islanders and the Rangers. And I saw you at Alumni. I believe it was the Alumni night, right? Did you do something there with the alumni?

Yeah. So the new owner, John Ledecky, great, great guy. Like, you know, he waits. He's the last guy with all the, all the fans and rides, that rides the train and, you know, down there with them, and he's just phenomenal. So there's. He's real big on the history of the Islanders. So they. Every year they throw an Islanders alumni and it's like first class, nice hotels, like great events, great meals, and it's really cool to enjoy, you know, the Islanders with all those old, old legends and guys I played with and, you know, it's super first class and, you know, really cool for something to be, you know, to be a part of that.

Yeah, I saw that. I saw them because they showed the. It was alumni weekend. It showed a bunch of the guys and, and that's fantastic. Let me ask you here. So we helping out people in life and in business and I use this, we use the podcast to help people. I mean, we're a lot of, like, we've had. You and I have had many long conversations and it's funny how we never even met face to face. I can't even remember how somebody introduced us. I can't remember how we met. But anyways, we start talking on the phone, we become. We become friendly.

And it was Helkidas.

Oh, Bob Hellkit.

Yeah, good old, good old Bob. He was my defense partner, my second year pro in Greensboro. And I think y' all are good buddies. That's how, that's how I think I got introduced to you, to be honest. Big man, but great guy. He's great.

Well, Bob beat me up on. See, Bob was a big guy in junior.

Yeah.

And I was a little guy. Like I was one of those like 16 year olds that was like a mouthy 5 foot 11, 160 pounds. I end up growing an inch in junior, and Bob was a big guy, and we were on national tv, and you know how the game of the week in the Ohl I don't even know if they still did.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

I dropped my gloves and circled them, but he didn't drop them. So in the penalty box, I see him putting Vaseline on his face, and he's getting his hands all ready, and we get on the ice, and he. He looks at me, says, let's go, and he just gave it to me. So when I got Buffalo and the first thing I did, I saw him on the roster. Well, the neat thing was I grew to be about 6. Well, close to 6 foot, and I ended up putting on more weight, and I trained, and now I was kind of in the tough guy category. And he was like a. He was tough, and I saw him there and I just stared at him in training camp. But the funny part was we became great friends. We never thought. We ended up rooming together in training camp and been friends to this day. And now I just moved back to North Carolina and I lived close to Bob, so. So we met through Bob and tell me some of the. Share with me some of the struggles after hockey, because a lot of us go through it. Like, all of a sudden, you, 19 years, they. Next thing you know, you're not putting your skates on. You're used to a routine. You're used to going to the rink. Share with me some of the struggles you had after hockey.

To be honest, Heartsy, I kind of got blessed. You know, obviously a guy that played junior and turned pro at 20 years old, probably much like yourself. I never went to college, so playing it out till pretty much the wheels fell off. Got blessed to play in Russia and had a. You know, made really great money there. And then Finland and then got a couple more years back in the a, you know, making solid cash for the. I just decided, you know, I got tired of being chasing the dollar. I wanted my little girl to remember me playing. So I. I decided to come back close to home and play in the east coast. And, you know, there wasn't all those killers anymore, so got to, like, truly help young guys, whether it was, you know, some little drills I learned along the way, obviously they did them a lot better than me because they're more skilled. But, you know, teaching guys on the mitts, whether they're a skilled guy or not, for conditioning and just kind of getting to be a part of a winner you know, Charleston has a great history, the Stingrays of, you know, be in first or second place almost every year. One year we made it to the finals, one year, the semis and, you know, got to, got to fish and have a lot of great relationships from those guys I played with there. And my captain, Joe Devin and his brother Mike Devin, they're twins, they played at Cornell and their sister, also Molly, played at, I believe it was Union or one of those schools like that. Just a hockey family. Great people. But they introduced me. They do credit card processing for a living. So my last year playing, you know, I knew my body was barking at me. I'd been in pain for like six years. And the year before I retired, I got to fly into Long Island, New York, where obviously I played for the Islanders. And I work for a nationwide, a big nationwide credit card processor called Merchant Pro Express MPX for short. Got to meet my boss, did the training, kind of wine and dine. And I just loved the guy and loved our team. And obviously I get to work with the Devon family and Joe's one of my very best friends. Friends, same with his brother. And I kind of just jumped full, full bore into it, man. You know, got a couple deals early, so had some success. It's not an easy industry, but I truly like to help people, whether it's my teammates or companies. It's an industry that drastically overcharges. And, you know, one thing you have as a pro athlete is a great network, and that's what you need in this job. You need to know a lot of people. And I grow my business by referral partners. I don't cold call, so I reward people that introduce me, give me a warm intro to their friends that own, you know, certain companies. And we guarantee savings. We have next day funding on all card types, including American Express. No contracts. They deal with us directly via our cell phone. There's no one, 800 numbers. And it's. It's been going great. So I did. I have to every day after practice, I might go have lunch with the boys or whatever, but I'd skip golf or something else and I'd just be grinding, man, doing emails, calls, and trying to build up a little book of business. So when I was done the game, because I truly do like what I'm doing. I truly love it. So I kind of got lucky. It hasn't been hard at all. I've stayed in the gym. I take pride and, you know, I believe, like, you start your day off with a workout, those natural Endorphins get going and you just kind of dominate the day, you know, stay blessed and unstoppable as I like to say. So the transition's been great, man. One of the things about playing that long is you miss your family. You know, my son was already in middle school and then high school, so they would stay home and I would be like, almost like military. I'd go away, make my money. You know, when I was in Europe, I'd have to do like Christmas over, over Skype, you know, you know, that stuff's tough. So it's really nice to be in my kids everyday life and be home with my wife and you know, I'm part of a golf group here. I constantly network and constantly helping people and you know, businesses picked really back up here. Was able to get a couple nice accounts in the last little bit and man, life's, life's great, man. I feel blessed to have played that little boys and girls game for so long. But now I'm, you know, on to the next chapter and kind of have it look back. I just started watching hockey again. I'm going to watch the islanders here at 3. Kind of just, you know, I had my fill and it's on to the next chapter. And so far, man, I gotta thank the big guy. I feel blessed, you know, for the relationships and the success I've had after hockey.

Well, you did a lot of things that people don't usually do because a lot of times I talk to guys in the NHL and Glenn Healy said this on the show. He said to me, and it was a great analogy. It was a great example. It was a really good analogy. He said, you know, Mike, some guys play one game. You know, some guys play thousands a game. You know, some guys have a cup of coffee, some guys have a pot of coffee. But I feel really bad for the guys that never had any coffee and you did. So you can go to bed every night saying, you know what? I made it. I played. I talked to guys today that were great players. I mean, I talked to Nick Kipperios about this, another North Bay guy. Nick scored 70 goals. Or he is. He's all time on the OHL list in the top 20 with all the great players since the OHL became in existence.

Yeah, that's incredible. I used to be a big fan of Nick Kipperos. I've watched him, you know, big time back in the day.

Yeah, well, with Nick, I mean, he's done, he's done great after hockey. He stepped, he stepped into something right Away, like yourself. And it's great. Some sometimes people have that identity, that identity crisis when they're done. I know I had it. I didn't know what I was going to do. I, you know, it's tough. I came to Charlotte and I went back to school and even got a degree because I never knew how long hockey was going to last. I did the correspondence thing, but still you have, you're lost. And I think it's amazing how you do that. So what have you learned as an athlete that you could apply today? Tell me some of the things that, like, you know, as an athlete, we were structured. So is there anything that corresponds with the game in life or business that you can give? Like somebody within sales? Because I know you're, you're great within sales. Can you, can you give us a little, like, how does hockey correlate with the everyday life?

Well, I think any professional athlete, you know, if they truly take the lessons they learned while they were playing, even if they just make it to college or whatever, high level, if you take those lessons, you learn like punctuality so big in sports, you know, as it is in business, you know, doing what you say you're gonna do, you know, being a part of a team, you know, constantly working. Like athletes have a great mentality that transfers over to business if, if they apply those things, you know, so I'm big on getting that workout in the morning, get those juices flowing and, you know, smile and dial and, you know, I like to go meet people face to face. And pretty much the only thing I need is, you know, I develop relationships or use relationships to get warm intros and that goes a long way. I receive a merchant statement, I send it to my boss. Whether it's one or multiple we can do, we provide a risk free, side by side cost savings analysis. And then I'm going to always save the money and if we can't, let's pay him a thousand dollars. So I enjoy it, man. It's, you know, it's, it's a challenging job because, you know, especially with what's going on right now. But, you know, I just truly feel blessed to have had the career I had with the talent I had. I met so many great people in this game, you know, you being one of them. Like we never played together, but we chat, you know, quite frequently. It's just hockey was amazing to me. I met my wife from hockey. I live in the south from hockey. No more snow in Canada, you know, love all my family and friends back home. But do not miss the snow. You know, miss all them, but do not miss the snow. And man, I treat every day like my last. And I'm truly a believer in the never quit mentality. And there's no rear view mirrors in life. Business, golf, hockey, so it's only forward, you know, you get that? No. Well, that means I'm that much closer to a yes. So, you know, that's truly how I live my life. And you know, we're not promised tomorrow, so you might as well be giving her.

Well, a lot of people talk to me and they say, boy, what does it take? Well, I said, listen to my guests. Listen to a guy like you. I could hear it in your voice. People say, ah, you, you, you kiss up to the guys that are on your show. Well, no, I bring guys on my show. And women, guys and women that are winners that, that, that talk like you, that have the energy. Some have been through a lot of adversity, some took care of things early. You said some great business things. So the, the one thing you said that I really love, and we'll conclude in a second with this, but the one thing you said is life is built around relationships and that's everything that they could teach in. I don't care what college you go to. And then the other thing is working out is so important for that mind, body and feeling good. Some people will say, what is that having to do with being a good salesman? Well, you want to look refreshed, you want to look fully recovered. And I could say one thing, Trevor, it's been great to have you on the show now. You could have gave a great infomercial. I might even hire you to do. I mean, you're a good speaker. Just if anybody does have a small business, just tell me where they can email you. You know, we don't do sales on the show, but I would love for, you know, if I could help you here. If anybody has a small business, is there somewhere they can email you or get in touch with you?

Yeah, absolutely. Heartsy, I appreciate it. I'd love to provide a risk free side by side to any company whether they're, you know, doing 20,000amonth, which is what we consider a smaller merchant to, you know, doing millions a month, have all those type of accounts. And I can help anyone nationwide in the whole country. And my email is T. Gillies, which is G I L L I E S at M as in Michael, P as in Paul X usa and feel free to hit me up on social media. Gillies 14. Or write me a private message on Facebook, which is Trevor Gillies standing beside Jonathan Zucker. The Zucker family are great philanthropists and on the team in Charleston. So, yeah, there's many ways to reach out to me. I would love to help everybody. And even if they just want to chat, I chat with all my fans, run my own little Facebook fan page. And you know, man, life's life's great, baby. And I'm honored to be on your show.

It's great to have you. And I'll conclude if anybody wants to go to YouTube and type in Trevor Gillies, make sure your kids aren't around. But you can tell you got a gentle heart. You're a good guy, solid guy, and I'm really excited to have you here. Trevor and I wish you all the best, and we'll talk to you soon.

Absolutely. Heartsy, thanks so much, man.