Biohack Your Brain, Body, and Business with Dave Asprey

Welcome to Capability Amplifier, the show for business owners and entrepreneurs who want high performance upgrades for their brains, bodies and bank accounts. In this episode, you'll meet Dave Asprey, founder of Bulletproof Coffee Upgrade Labs, host of the top rated bulletproof radio show, Bulletproof Media, and author of multiple New York Times bestsellers, including the Bulletproof Diet, Headstrong, Game Changers, and multiple cookbooks, and featured in dozens of magazines, including Men's Health. Dave Asprey is well known for coining the phrase biohacking. And that's the state of high performance where you take control of and improve your biochemistry, your body and your mind so they work in unison, helping you to execute at levels far beyond what you'd expect without burning out, getting sick, or allowing stress to control your decisions. Dave used his techniques to increase his IQ 20 points, dropped 100 pounds without counting calories or exercise, and. And he's literally a human guinea pig who recently endured the most extensive stem cell treatment ever done on a person at one time in his quest to live to be 180 years old. And I actually saw him the next day, so I can vouch for that. What I love about Dave is he is all heart. And in this interview, you're going to learn about how he thinks and makes decisions and what the biggest dangers are that he's currently facing that he sees for you as well, and where he sees opportunities for in the world of medicine and personal growth and how you can model what he does in your life and business. And full disclosure, I am an investor in Bulletproof and Upgrade Labs and serve as an advisor to Dave. He's also been a member of Strategic Coach. Now, I interviewed Dave at his home in Victoria, British Columbia, with his wife, Lana, two kids, a dog, five sheep, and a spiritual guru. So make sure you check out the photo of me in a cloud of liquid nitrogen on my Instagram feed at Mike Koenigs. It was completely insane. So, without further ado, let's dive into the interview with the always interesting and intriguing Dave Asprey. I wanted to talk about some of your unique abilities and how you think and how you do what you do. So what I wanted to begin with is how do you create intrigue? How do you think about intrigue? Because you've been creating products now for a long time, very successfully, and you have a cult brand.

This is going to sound funny. I have never thought about intrigue. That's not how I do it. What I think about is what can I do to educate and inform and be worth listening to. And it turns out that one of the characteristics of that something that maybe Jay Abraham explains best, who's a dear friend, is about just being noteworthy. So if you want people to learn about anti aging, I've run an anti aging nonprofit for almost 20 years. And you know how many people pay attention to that under age 50? None. Because, well, what do you care about when you're 23?

Well, probably procreating is one of them. And making money.

Yes, it starts. Career, friends, and sex. Let's talk about a health blog. You know how many of those there are? More than anyone can ever use. You know how many people really wake up in the morning and say, I want to be healthy? Only the really sick people. Everyone else, I'd like to wake up. I'd like to feel great. I'd like to maybe procreate, and I'd like to have a career and take care of my family and do all the other parts of being human. So what's going on is it's a failure to communicate. So intrigue is just effective communication. And it's. Instead of saying, what do I want to communicate? Say, what's in it for you? And when I'm successful, when I do my best work that connects with the most people, it's simply saying, what's in it for them? And what's in it for them isn't what's in it for me. They're not me, they're them. And if I can just empathize, use my mirror neurons, I can just get into their mind and I can tell them something that's of service to them in a language they can use. They think it's intriguing. I think sometimes I'm like, do I really have to say it that way? Okay, good.

Well, right now we're chatting, actually, at your barn here in Victoria, British Columbia. Looking out. It's beautiful. I'd like to ask you what you see as some dangers that are present that you are trying to solve right now. And that can be from an intellectual perspective, from a health perspective, both in your life and also what you're trying to do with or for the business.

It's interesting. We have this idea of thrivers, and this is based on a lot of market research. These are people who figured out they can become, as you would call them, super beings or superhumans or people who realize, you know, I can look the way I want to look, I can feel the way I want to feel. I have achieved some degree of control over my state. There's all sorts of paths to get there. Most of them I call in the world of biohacking. And I wasn't always one of those. And I became one of those. There's a much larger group of people who I would call strivers. There are people who are working on it. They realize it might be possible they're not there, but they're on a path. And then there's a much, much, much larger group of people that you could call the strugglers. I don't think I can get there. I don't think there's a path. And I know, either I know or I don't know that things aren't so good. Like when I weighed 300 pounds, I definitely. Maybe in the back of my mind or something, by the time I was 30 or late 20s or something, I figured it out. But in my late teens, when I had arthritis, I was clearly overweight. I had all these things going on. You would ask me, I would have been, oh, no, I'm fine. I'm strong, because you don't even see it.

So you're like at a struggler phase. You're unconscious. Striver means you're consciously incompetent, perhaps. And super being is where you are consciously competent. You're doing the.

That's a great breakdown. So the trick for bulletproof, we did a press release. We announced we went to 20,000 stores. This, by definition, means, okay, how do we communicate this bulletproof language? Our mission vision is we create products that radically improve people's lives so that they can tap into the unlimited power of being human. If you're in a place where I don't think I have the power, much less unlimited power of being human, and I don't think it's possible to radically improve my life. How do I get someone like that to look at a bottle of bulletproof cold brew or one of our collagen protein bars on the shelf, Pick it up. Not have heard of the brand, not have heard of me, not have read a book, not have listened to bulletproof radio. None of that. Pick it up and say, there's something in this for me that's special. And that is a different problem than we solved before, but it's one that I think that we've created enough of a movement around the brand. It's not just Hollywood and Silicon Valley and New York bankers. Even though Bullpiece started with people like that, it's people everywhere, all the states, so many countries where people talk about it. And you see that guy in the office who lost 50 pounds in three or four months and smiled the whole time. They tend to be evangelical, just like I am about what I do. So I think we're reaching that population. But that's the big question for this year is what's the very best language to help someone who is where I used to be?

So it really comes down to its messaging. In your case, 20,000 stores, which is retail or mainstream, and being able to span struggler, striver, and the super beings or the superhumans.

There you go.

So that brings us to the next question. Which are the opportunities? And through your lens right now, without giving away some gigantic trade secrets, of course, what do you see as being some opportunities that are new and emerging that you're super excited about? Like what's lighting you up right now and getting you super excited?

One of the things that has me really excited is the fact that I've become a curator of the best stuff in biohacking. So it's given me this opportunity to say, look, I am not in a position to manufacture every single thing that I think is amazing or that even has evidence behind it. So Bulletproof radio now gets 2 million downloads or more a month. And it provides the opportunity to talk to all these experts and also to talk about new technologies. And then I have the opportunity to roll them out at Upgrade Labs. This is something we spun out from Bulletproof. We're recording in a bulletproof lab. It's a million dollar facility with all sorts of gear that astronauts and Navy SEALs and neuroscientists and people use to improve performance that I put in place to get control of my own biology. And it's something that we have in Santa Monica at the Beverly Hilton, and the ability to now curate, identify the technologies, share them on the air. Even if they're nothing that we sell at Upgrade Labs, they're nothing that we do at Bulletproof, but they're useful and impactful and empowering for people. That makes me really happy because I get to see it all. It gives me the best view. People bring me the latest things. So I sit in that bird's eye, eagle's eye, whatever you want to call that thing, where I get to see the whole landscape, the lay of the land, and I get to try it and see what works.

It's called the eagle's Nest.

Eagle's nest. There you go.

Just messing with you.

But that ability just to have the visibility and to be able to sense what's in the world that's coming in the world of anti aging, I've stated publicly, you might have Seen the article on men's health? Yeah, I'm going to live to at least 180. I think it's actually doable and to be able to be in that position as a leader and just tell people, hey, old age looks like not tubes and monitors and wheelchairs and forgetting your own name. Old age looks like feeling good, being able to move around under your own power and having so much energy and developed wisdom that you can serve. I mean, let's take Dan Sullivan, your dear friend, both of us. Dan is what it looks like to age. You see him, he wakes up every morning, he's excited. He has friends of all ages and he's giving back. And the more time he's on the earth, the more good stuff he can give back in less time. We have this lack of what I call village elders and still have the energy and the mental and physical ability to stand up and say I want to share and more of those that's going to make the world a better place. That's one of the things I'm most excited about.

So if you're going to pick one thing right now that stands out for this year that you want to solve, overcome, accomplish and again, that could be small. It's a Dave thing or something, a bring to market that pops out.

What stands out if it's a Dave thing? I'm going to start small there. The book marketing world is pretty jacked up right now. There are so many people throwing books up on Amazon and I use the word throwing up very consciously there because you can dictate a book in about six hours. It's just a book that's not worth people's time to read it. I look at recording an episode of Bulletproof Radio or writing a book as an exercise in roi. Can I create a return on investment for a listener or a reader much higher than what they did? That means I usually spend eight hours for a one hour show or I might spend thousands of hours for a book. But my last book, Game Changers, USA Today best seller, sold something like 40,000 copies. So far the highest rated book of all of my books, almost exclusively five star reviews. And it was one of the hardest ones to write also and one that's changed a lot of lives. It's been hard to sell and I've been looking at book launch processes, old ones that don't work anymore, affiliate marketing ones like that. And I think for my next book on anti aging that I've got this sorted out where we need to go back and use the Book, not to connect to our own community. My own community is going to probably read my books because they've gotten value from the previous ones. But I want a book that's going to help new people and the people I have now. So changing my thinking around the book launch process to reach people I've never met means going back to advertising, just doing it with excellence.

That's good. I like that. It's very smart. So let's talk a little bit about strengths and specifically I told you this before we started recording through my lens, I see some of your unique abilities and strengths as you're really good at spotting trends, being able to package, name and connect with an audience Right now, what are the strengths that you're going to be honing that you're focused on enhancing yourself with? So again, if you're going to look at ways to amplify your super beingness or your own capabilities, what are you focused on right now? And obviously we just talked about book marketing specifically. But what are some skills that you're really looking at enhancing?

There are two that I've relied on a lot. One of them is event correlation. I'm better at pattern recognition in the domains that I care about than most people. And I don't know if it's probably a mental brain thing. The other one is what I'm going to call feeling language and brands where when I am naming a product or a company or whatever, there's a visceral felt sense that happens before you can think about it. And that's what drives my naming process. Those two things have been very beneficial for me. And that also every word I choose, whether it's a title or even in a sentence, runs through that little filter. So I'm only triggering people if I want to.

Those have gotten me so far, but when I look at what am I working on this year, it's actually more the stuff that Dan would talk about, which is around leadership. Because I am founder and CEO of Bulletproof and we're now a sizable company. We've raised $68 million in venture capital in three round. I mentioned the 20,000 stores and just growing like a weed. We also have Upgrade Labs where I'm chairman and founder, we've got location at the Beverly Hilton and I also have this 40 years of Zen, a neurofeedback program that's been around for several years where there's a couple neuroscientists, people go in for a brain upgrade, a five day intensive thing. Many of our friends have done it and certainly it's changed my life. But I don't have time, I don't run these companies. I started them, I defined them like I'm the energy behind them. But I don't meet with the teams every week. It's not even possible. And I have Homebiotic, the mold spray company, and TrueDark, the company that makes glasses for jet lag. These are things that were innovations that did not exist, that I could not buy. And I always start things I can't buy. But there is no sane way that I can be a husband, a father, a podcaster, New York Times best selling author, CEO of a venture backed company. Oh, and CEO of these other handful of companies. Your head would explode. So then you get into what Tony Robbins and Richard Branson and people like that who have their hands in dozens. I think Tony said something like 5,000 companies he's involved in or something. I don't know if that number's the right one. But the deal is how do I scale leadership? And the biggest thing I'm working on now is how do I deal with this incredible pressure from people who want a piece of my time? Hey, I just want a cup of coffee. Can we just have a quick phone call? And the answer is, even if I really want to, the answer is probably no, because I'm going to go play with my kids. I mean, even this show, my son Alan's waiting to play ping pong with me as soon as we're done. So there's this weird energy that happens where people say, well, I wanted a piece of Dave. Whether they're employees or portfolio companies or friends or potential investors or whatever else, people can get resentful when they don't get the piece of you they want. Then they think, oh, he thinks he's better than me. That's actually how it works. It's like other priorities. Your predators are not mine. And just working on balancing that. How do you lead effectively in very small amounts of time? If you figure that one, let me know.

All right, I love that. That's really good. And I am going to go backwards a little bit to what you just talked about, which was pattern recognition. And if you look back in time as far as what habit or belief has helped you become, is this something that you feel you were innately born with or you evolved or developed? I'm really curious about that. Cause it's something I see very commonly amongst really good startup entrepreneurs.

Pattern recognition for me probably comes because my grandmother is an advanced degree in nuclear engineering and all Aunts and knuckles are weird science types, so it may be a genetic brain thing. And also I had the symptoms of Asperger's as a kid. Certainly some neurological chaos that I've since sorted through with all the neurofeedback and bulletproof diet and biohacking and all that. But the core mind that just notices, hey, this is tied to this. And you realize no one else has noticed that. And a lot of the stuff around sleep hacking that you'll read today, I'm correlating, I think this might be something. Then I will run some experiments and I'll do it. And sometimes it's just noticing, hey, there's a pattern. What I did two days ago affects what I do now. And it's just this act of consciousness, of noticing and then being curious and questioning and then writing it down. And it's that last step I started almost 20 years ago. I was trying to figure out why I was a zombie some of the time when I didn't want to be. Not that I'm bored in a meeting, it's that I desperately want to pay attention and my brain is turning off. So I would just take a little note. I'm feeling like crap today. And then pretty soon, well, let me just write down what I'm eating and let me write down how I slept and write down other things. And pretty soon I'm like, oh, there's a clear correlation. I feel like a zombie on Monday because Friday night is my cheat night. And these diets were like, oh, you can eat whatever you want once a week. Don't do that.

Free flow logging and just a notebook. And were you tracking? I mean, were you looking backwards and were these like feeling responses or are you charting things or like, what kind of data were you logging?

It's really easy to say, I want to be a quantified self kind of guy. And I'm going to make all these charts and graphs and I have great charts and graphs from all the sleep apps and things like that. My OURA ring that tracks all my biology, it's fantastic. Now, and that makes correlation easy. But here's the deal. You wake up in the morning and you realize that your stress recovery index, which is a measure of spacing between your heartbeats, it wasn't very good last night. And you could say, well, I noticed that I did these three things and I've probably written a blog about the three most likely things. But for you to run through and go, what is the one thing that I didn't write down? Or That I noticed. I did. Oh, I ate cheese. People don't write cheese in their sleep log unless they're really obsessive of like, oh, wait, okay, there's case iomorphins in there, so maybe I got worse or better sleep or whatever. But just to realize, oh, it comes down to remembering and noting the small things. And when you peel it all the way, most event correlation that we do, we think we do it in our prefrontal cortex in our thinking brain, and that's actually not where it happens. Event correlation is pattern recognition, which is a distributed network system throughout all of the cells in your body. It's actually subcellular. It's in the mitochondria. I wrote a whole New York Times science book that it's that distributed pattern matching. You can listen to that, and then you get a signal that goes, something important is here. And then you think about it. But most of us have learned event correlation through machine learning or whatever else. And we're thinking, oh, we do big data. We draw a graph, and then we look for beer and diapers are sold at the same time. Therefore, there's a correlation that's all cognitive. The real event correlation is emotional and physical in the body and then cognitive. And it's the same way I do.

Company naming, which actually leads me to. I mean, we could spend two hours on the last thing you were just talking about, which I think is really fascinating, because what I still don't totally understand is clearly you're paying attention to the right information, that you're gathering the right data, and, you know, something as minute as what you said, like cheese, for example, then a sleep pattern or sleep behavior, it's. Where'd that jump come from? Is what I'm really curious.

Where did my jump come from? That I. All right, I can tell you that.

Would you give your son Alan, this skill set if he were. He actually just ran down to check out the ping pong table. But if you were going to teach the skill, where do you think it came from and how did you make the leap?

I learned the skill through doing neurofeedback and biofeedback, and one of the coolest studies ever, in my mind, they used a random number generator to decide whether a screen is going to display a picture of a grisly murder or puppies. Now, scientists running the study doesn't know, and the person looking at the screen doesn't know what's going to come up. And they wire something called galvanic skin response or resistance. And this is Micro sweating. So when the body knows something stressful is coming or is happening, you see tiny changes that are measurable with a modern computer, for some reason, which is almost certainly a quantum effect, because there's no other explanation we know of, then this is repeatable in any laboratory out there with good gear. When the grisly picture is going to come up before it hits the screen, when no one knows it's going to happen reliably, the viewer's galvanic skin response will show a stress response. When a stressful image is going to come up prior to your body knows before you do. And that is just a fact. And when I looked at that fact as a scientist, instead of saying that can't happen, therefore it doesn't, I'm like, hey, this happens and we don't know why. I'm just gonna accept that. So there's wisdom in the body, and it's following that. So how do I teach that to kids? I tell them, there is wisdom in your body. And we teach kids to be emotionally aware. Hey, how do you feel? Hey, if we take this, Eat this garbagey food, see how you feel that feeling. Trust the feelings. And it transpired like this. The kids were making fun of one of our friends for going to McDonald's, because we don't really eat junk food. In fact, we've never eaten junk food. And I said, well, kids, that's not cool. People eat wherever they want to eat. And it's okay for them to do that. We're not going to judge them. So I said, we're going to go to McDonald's. You're going to get toys, ice cream, apple pie, French fries. You're going to play on the structure. It's going to be great. And they looked at me and they said, dad, we know how we feel when we eat food. That's not right for us. And I said, yeah, but toys. And they said, you can't make us like, okay, I'm a good dad. But it was because they've learned to trust their visceral scents. My son Alan, he knows the sensitivity to nightshade vegetables that I do. Potatoes. And they cause him the same neck pain I had my entire life until I figured this out when I was 30 or something. So we go to a restaurant and he says, are there potatoes in there? Because he knows how it makes him feel. Kids are better at this than adults. So all you have to do is say, if you feel that, where do you feel it? And I asked them, where in your body is that? Feeling. And I teach them, just listen. And this is what adults are taught to ignore. I ignored everything from the neck down until I was 30 and I started doing neurofeedback and personal development. And that's where these really big powers came. I always had the cognitive stuff, but that's the hard way. The easy way is you notice and then you think. Most people try to think, but they don't notice.

Great. So I'm going to just restate what you just said, which is. So you started practicing neurofeedback, biofeedback, and you got used to listening to and knowing what was going on. So you were able to feel these feelings without the hardware and without depending on it eventually. And now you've incorporated that into everything that you do. Is that fair to say?

That's very fair to say. One of my favorite technologies is called heart rate variability. And your body, on a second by second basis goes into or out of fight or flight response. And you put this dumb little app on your phone, a clip on your ear, and you look at it and you breathe, right? It turns green and it's actually.

We're talking about heartmath technology or who else?

Yeah, this is heartmath technology. We use a clinical grade one at 40 years of Zen, but this is the stuff you can do at home for cheap. You look at this thing, you say, all right, it's green. And then all of a sudden you think about something like failure or whatever, and all of a sudden you realize, oh, this is what it feels like to be in a state of rest and reset. And this is what it feels like to swing out of it. And this is the skill to bring yourself back in. And now I walk through after six weeks of training years ago, you walk down the street, I just suddenly, for a reason I don't know, swung out of, hey, things are cool to something's not right. And then comes the thinking, why? And then comes the oh, I have a catalog of environmental things that are likely things. Oh, which one is it? Okay, is there actually a study on PubMed that says, oh, actually there is. What do you know? And maybe it's a correlation that no one's noticed before. And then maybe I write about it on the bulletproof blog or in a book or something and you vet it. And a lot of amazing creativity just comes from that basic process. But if I didn't know how to feel that subtle nuance of my heartbeat spacing, changing, I wouldn't have the trigger to cause me to think.

Love it. So if you were going to, aside from someone like right now signing up and going to 40 years of Zen, we talked about HeartMath, for example. But what gadgets, devices or resources would you recommend for someone to experiment with neurofeedback and biofeedback and get some results and be able to hone these skills?

One of the best things that's going to help on the thinking side there is the OURA ring.

O u r. We're both wearing those right now.

Yeah. And the reason for this is that when you wake up in the morning, it's gonna tell you how much deep sleep, how much rem, and what was your heart rate variability all night long. And based on that stuff, you can pretty much figure out was yesterday a good set of things or a bad set of things? Yeah.

It's pretty easy to intuitively correlate the drinks you had the night before, if you drank some alcohol or the food you had and see how that affected.

Your sleep and your patterns or maybe getting laid or maybe getting in a fight or whatever it was. Those things are all there when you wake up in the morning. It's hard to hide from yourself on that one. I really like that in terms of doing neurofeedback, there are some consumer grade ones that are out there for 2, 3, 400 bucks and they have some utility, but they don't really get into the deep parts of the brain where I've had the most value. You can also go to a neurofeedback practitioner who will do a few sessions. If you decide to do that, you really want to go. Someone who's done 10,000 or more sessions, there's a lot of people who sort of have a couple classes, they go do it. But the people that I work with at 40 years of Zen, 75,000 sessions of experience, because there's nuances and I think it's great to have a consumer grade thing that's hooked up to your phone that you can use at home. But if you were to buy the clinical stuff the way I did 20 years ago and try and do it on yourself, it's like doing brain surgery on yourself. You can give yourself PTSD with bad neurofeedback settings. It is really powerful stuff. So I don't necessarily think you should go down that route unless you're.

So are you not gonna mention a product in particular that you think would be okay or kind of good? And it's okay if that's the case.

But I mean, I haven't had a chance to See the algorithms, Like, I've met the founders of Muse, and I really like Muse, and for years I've.

Been using Muse, and I like the device. I've had good luck, and it seems to me it's been a great way to train your brain to meditate. And then it does not take long to know how to, like, balance on the knife's edge, which is kind of what I mentally compare it to. It's like I know what it feels like to be in a good state.

Especially the new Muse 2, which is now cheaper and has more sensors in it.

Yeah, it's really good.

It's a good device. I don't know which meditative parameters they're doing compared to the advanced Zen stuff that. It's a $15,000 program for executive type performers. Not what we're talking about. But there's also some degree of muscle tensing that you get in your forehead, but that's okay. Teaching you to fully relax your face will actually increase your alpha brainwaves also. So even if it's a mix of brainwaves and muscle tension, which all neurofeedback has a mix of those things, I just don't know their algorithms because I don't work at the company, I'm not their cto.

So this is not an endorsement, but it's a device that you can use.

People use it. It helps. I have, in fact, right over there on the shelf.

I know, I see it.

Yeah, I see.

I saw it on the way down the stairs.

So I don't want to not endorse Muse. I just want to say, I don't know the algorithmic stuff they're doing to say, this is going to be better than transcendental meditation. If you don't know how to meditate and you use either a heartmath device or a Muse device, your return on investment for the time you spend meditating will be infinitely higher than if you sit in a room and stare at a candle and chant.

Right. So I think for less than a grand, you can get a Muse 2, an Oura ring, and a heartmath device.

Absolutely.

And then the other device I've been using lately, which doesn't exactly fit in here, but I've got an Apple Watch 4 I've been wearing, and there's some great sensors on that.

You know what's funny? I was CTO of basis. This was the first wristband that could get real time heart rate from the wrist. And intel bought them for 100 million. And the sensors that we started out using there. Like the ones we pioneered are the ones that are in the latest Apple Watch. So that's a good way to get the data from the Apple Watch. I'm a little concerned about having a wifi transmitter on my wrist. I think there's biological risks to that. But if you disable the wifi and the cell phone stuff and using Bluetooth on it. Okay.

Right, right. Yeah. That's another slippery slope we'll avoid going down that right now. So I think the last question that I have for you right now is just based on this conversation we've had, looking at what you've evolved towards and to and where you're going right now, are there any other recommendations, suggestions for someone who wanted to model how you think and what you do? If they wanted to create their own.

Mental map, the first thing that you'd want to do is you would want to recognize that as a human being, your powers of self deception are legion.

Explain that.

Well, neurofeedback taught me that my ability to believe my own story is just epic. And that's the human condition. The real way it works, and this is what I teach people now, is look. The sensation happens through the distributed network of mitochondria in your body. Quadrillions of them, sensing things way before you can ever think about it. They create a sensation. Then they're just trying to keep your meat alive. They're trying to match all possible threats. They're not very good at it, they're just really fast and they'd rather you make a mistake of being afraid than getting eaten by a tiger. So they'll always be oversensitive. But there's a huge amount of knowledge in that signal as well. If you just recognize that, you're going to make up a story about that and you're going to congratulate yourself on the story and believe it's totally true. If you just understand that you're already pretty far along the path. But what that means is that you're also going to fall into that scientific thing of saying that can't happen, therefore it didn't. And I've done training with shamans. I've done ayahuasca in Peru 20 plus years ago, before it was cool, before you could just go there on a tourism for ayahuasca and all that. You have to traipse around the jungle to find the right guy kind of times. And there's a lot of stuff, Chinese energetic medicine, things out of Ayurveda. We don't know how that stuff works. Heck, 20 years ago, acupuncture was for charlatans, and now there's 10,000 studies showing, oh, it does kind of work. We just didn't have good sensors back then. So don't let hubris and things that are impossible. You've got to learn how to trust your intuition, your feelings. And that means constant path of becoming more conscious of what's actually happening versus what you believe is happening. Test your beliefs because they're probably false. And if you're feeling it, there's a reason you're feeling it. You just don't know what it is. That will get you more into the Dave Asprey mindset than studying artificial intelligence, which my concentration in my undergrad was in the form of artificial intelligence. You can go down all that stuff. You should go down that stuff. You should learn how systems work, how to draw pictures in your head. But if you ignore the feelings and go straight to the thinking. Thinking is expensive and slow. Start with the feelings and then think. It's just easier that way.

Thanks, Dave. Appreciate you.

You too, Mike. Love you, man.

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