Gino Wickman Is Obsessed With Helping Entrepreneurs Take Their Leap

The approach I'm taking is a bit controversial, and I believe half the entrepreneurial world agrees with me. And half dozen. I am ready to turn any organization I have. I'll turn it around on a dime the day I realize that my clients need change. I'm a person who is obsessed about helping entrepreneurs live their ideal life. So when I look at the last 30 years of my life, that's what I do. I'm just able to. I just see the path, I see the trend, I see the problem, I see the solution is I believe a true entrepreneur has six essential traits. And you either have them or you don't.

All right, Gino Wickman, for people who haven't heard of you or eos, who is Gino Wickman?

I am a person who is obsessed about helping entrepreneurs live their ideal life. And it's all about helping them to fully accelerate and maximize their freedom, creativity, and impact on the world. And so I've been doing that for the last 30 years.

All right, and for someone who's never heard of EOS before, why don't you describe that? Because that's certainly going to lead into the book Entrepreneurial Leap that you're releasing right now.

Yeah. So in my 20s, I took over a family business that was in need of a turnaround. I turned it around and in three years, ran it for seven years. And then my partners and I decided to sell. It was my dad, myself, and we had a third partner. And through that experience, and through an experience of being involved in the Young Entrepreneurs Organization now known as the Entrepreneurs Organization, I just realized I have this knack for helping entrepreneurs. And so then I took a leap to help entrepreneurs. And over the last 20 years, I've created a system called EOS, the entrepreneurial operating system that helps an entrepreneur and their leadership team run a better business. I started, like I said, About 20 years ago. It took me about five years to create it. And then I joined forces with a partner of mine, Don Tinney, and we built it up to now over 300 EOS implementers all over the world that are helping tens of thousands of companies to implement eos. That's the fast version of eos, what it is, and how it came about.

All right, one thing I'm curious about is what kind of brain do you have? You've got. What is your Colby score, first of all. And then what kind of brain do you have that enabled you, first of all, to see the pain and actually create a solution? Because the kind of challenges that you fixed are not easy. To fix. You're here.

That is. I love that question. So what kind of brain do I have? So the Colby is four, six, eight, three. Okay. And so I'm an eight. Quick start. I'm a six. Follow through, which I believe a high, quickstart, high follow through person has ocd. So that gets to the brain that I have. And so as we go into the brain I have, Kathy Colby, the creator of Colby, describes my Colby, which is the same Colby that she has, as the ability to see patterns and trends. And when I look at the last 30 years of my life, that's what I do. I'm just able to, when I've seen something enough times, I just see the pattern, I see the trend, I see the problem, I see the solution. And so that's how my brain works. And so my brain, the kind of brain I have, has adhd, has ocd, a touch of dyslexia. I'm a mess, quite frankly, but I am obsessive. And so the thing I obsess about as entrepreneurs. And so in helping my dad with his business and turn around that business, that's when I realized what the passion was in taking this leap to help other entrepreneurs. In my Entrepreneurs organization forum, where 10 of us met every month. About a year into meeting every month with this group of entrepreneurs, I had this aha moment. And the aha moment was, holy cow, these guys are as fucked up as I am. And I literally said it that way, I'm quoting myself, which gives me permission to use profanity. And what I realized is these entrepreneurs all look so perfect on the outside, but I got to see what it looks like on the inside. And I said, wow, opportunity. And I decided I'm devoting my life to helping people like this just absolutely maximize their potential. And that's what I did. And so that's the kind of brain I have. And it was five years of obsession. EOS wasn't an idea I came up with in a day. It was five years of doing tons of sessions with lots of companies until I really put the finishing touches on it.

Okay, so my next question then is, so you went down this path, you built this business, and you've been doing what I would consider a lot of advanced stuff. It's a combination of the system for entrepreneurs. It's also helping the implementer side of the business. So you've got operating systems for a variety of different people. And then in your sixth book, which is coming out, this one is much more general. So why the going?

I'll say it feels backwards in a way, but I know when you and I talked not long ago at a coach meeting, you just said, I want to broaden the appeal and reach more people right now. And I'm curious about the why behind that and then what this new book is all about.

Yeah. So that's really interesting because as I think about as you're saying that, what flashes into my mind is I picture these three eras of my life. And in my 20s it was taking over and turning around and selling the family business. In the next era, my 30s and 40s was creating and building EOs worldwide. And then we ultimately sold that last year. And this next era I'm going into is now this era of entrepreneurial leap and helping entrepreneurs in in the making get a huge jump start on taking their leap. And you're right. When I think about that, wow. You would think it would go in a different order because you want to start by helping them take the leap. The funny thought that came to my mind. I can't give you this perfect scientific answer for why that order. But I will tell you this. There's a hell of a lot more money in doing the phase two work or the ERA two work than the ERA three work. There's not a lot of money in helping an entrepreneur in the making. It's really more of a passion project. I don't care how much or how little money I make with entrepreneurial leap. Certainly financial independence and financial freedom is very important to me. I'm a capitalist.

With that. EOS was a passion project, certainly, but also my intention was to become financially independent and, and give myself total financial freedom. And so all that said, I wish there were a perfect answer, but at 40 I got my calling that at 50, I'm gonna spend a majority of my time and energy helping entrepreneurs in the making take their leap.

That's good. That's good. I think that goes to show your character for sure.

And also more about how you think, which to me is the most important thing of all. My goal is always to help people model how big thinkers think. And one of the things that I'm really impressed with you that I want to talk to you about later on are your non negotiable routines and rituals because you are a very structured person. You've created amazing structure. But for people who want to know more about the book, one of the things that you talk about are the six essential traits of an entrepreneur. And I'm curious if you can walk through what those are and why that's so important in this book.

Yeah. Great. So what I'll do first is I'll put the project in a nutshell and then go into the six essential traits. And so the project is a book that I've written. Again, a ten year project, two year writing project. That book comes out right around the time in the release of this podcast. So it's going to be available at all major retailers. But the book is called Entrepreneurial Leap. And again, it's focused on helping, as I said, an entrepreneur in the making get a huge jumpstart on taking their entrepreneurial leap. And the content is broken into three parts. Part one is called Confirm. Part two is called Glimpse. Part three is called Path. And so in part one, Confirm, it's all about helping this entrepreneur in the making confirm whether or not they even are an entrepreneur in the making, because unfortunately most aren't. And so there's an assessment, but I take them through a vivid journey of helping them discover and confirm if they are. In part two, Glimpse is showing them a glimpse of what their life could look like, all of their options. And then Path is showing them a path that's going to make the road a lot less bumpy and help eliminate some of the mistakes. That's the project in a nutshell. When I think about your audience, certainly your audience, there aren't too many entrepreneurs in the making listening, probably, but there are a lot of entrepreneurs. This project is as much to help the entrepreneur in the making as it is to help your audience. Entrepreneurs that are successful, that want to give back, that want to help entrepreneurs in the making. This is a tool that is literally going to make them heroes. Because I teach a mentor track and I say if you're an entrepreneur that wants to teach an entrepreneur in the making and mentor them, hand them this new book, tell them to read it, schedule a meeting for next week, tell them to bring all of their questions. And what you get to do as an experienced entrepreneur is simply answer their questions and then tell your life story and then teach them everything you want to teach them. And it's really a powerful process. So all that said a mouthful, certainly you're asking about part one, Confirm and the six essential traits. And so what I believe, and this is my belief and this is my experience, and this is my last three decades of living in this world is I believe a true entrepreneur has six essential traits. And you either have them or you don't. And if you don't, it's highly unlikely you're going to be a true entrepreneur. That Builds an organization that makes an impact on the world, has lots of employees, and very quickly those six essential traits are visionary, passionate, problem solver, driven, risk taker, and responsible.

And I'll stop there.

Okay. No, those are good. And I can both see myself and all the people that I know who are successful entrepreneurs inside of that for sure. And it just makes a ton of sense. So I'm curious then.

You'Ve talked a little bit about.

The vision, but why don't you talk a little bit about the mission of the new books or the new book? Because you've got three key parts which are Confirmed, Glimpse and Path. And why those. So first of all, where did they come from and why is that so important through your lens?

Yeah, I love your questions.

Leading into that and the why and the mission. The approach I'm taking is a bit controversial. And I believe half the entrepreneurial world agrees with me and half doesn't because I believe you're born with these things. So I believe it's nature over nurture. I mean, there are people out there that believe you can teach someone these traits, you can teach someone to be an entrepreneur. And so I summarize the whole project and the whole thing by saying an entrepreneur is not something you do, it is something you are. And so you just are this thing. And so what the book is all about and what this content is all about and these three parts are about is it's addressing that. It's addressing the fact that first you've got to confirm you have the traits. Number two, you've got to see what life can look like for you, but also get a jump start clear. Glimpse is all about when you hear people say, I wish I had known then what I know now. Well, Glimpse is helping an entrepreneur in the making know now what they need to know. So it helps them take a better leap by knowing all of their options. Because you know they're either an entrepreneur that's going to build a $2 million company or a $2 billion company. And.

Every entrepreneur is not cut out for a $2 billion company. And so it helps them understand their options. And then Path certainly shows a path.

And a path for how to get there. Eliminate mistakes. I always say it's going to help eliminate half the mistakes they'll make. They still need to make the other half. But the point in all of that is there is no perfect system. There is no perfect process. There is no step by step. There is no. So it's a crime to me when people are teaching a process for Becoming an entrepreneur, because to me, at a very high level, here's the four step process that every entrepreneur goes through. Step one, you have an idea, okay, you have an idea, an impact you want to make on the world, a problem you want to solve. That's step one. Step two, you take an entrepreneurial leap. Step three, you get your ass kicked for one to 20 years. And then step four, you emerge a successful, battle hardened entrepreneur. Hopefully, because 50% of you won't. It's a high failure rate. And my point is everything else in between is totally unpredictable. And the only way you're going to make it all the way through step four is if you have six essential traits because you are making it up every step of the way, every minute, every day, every week, every month, every quarter. So it's totally unpredictable and you've got to be ready for that wild ride. And entrepreneurs, we are screwed up. I mean, we're a little crazy. So it's not for everyone. And so there's, I hope in all of those words you hear the mission, but it's just taking a different approach to helping people take an entrepreneurial leap that's just a little different than what's being taught out there.

It makes a lot of sense.

If you look at today, which we live in a very different world right now. And I'm going to frame this a little bit because I'm going to project on this a little bit too. Our, our existing institutions as we know them are basically broken, obsolete, or already extinct in that, whether that's financial, banking, monetary, transportation, government, our leadership, certainly our medical system, our education, training, college, et cetera. Whether or not they're preparing kids for real is questionable. Right. And we also have the emergence of artificial intelligence and machine learning and augmented reality, virtual, virtual reality, Internet of things. Everything's being connected. And lots of traditional jobs and professions are going away. And with that will be many, many organizations. So I'm curious when you look through the lens of the challenges that you see your existing clients and customers go through, all the entrepreneurs that you're working with, which there are tens of thousands that you touch. I'm curious what advice you have for someone now who wants to follow this path or for that matter, people who you see who are reinventing themselves in a new world with a lot of new rules.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I will start by saying I wish I were smart enough to give the perfect answer to that. So now I'm going to go back to. And this is where you'll start to learn how my Brain works in terms of. I always go back to the fundamentals and I look at what changes over history and what doesn't change over history. If we look at 2000 years of history as an example or 1000 years of history.

What changes is the way we communicate, how we market and sell, how we attract people to what we're doing. The things that don't change are the fact that people have needs.

And entrepreneurs fill those needs. You know, yes, things are going to change and they're going to change drastically, and it's terrifying and it's also exciting at the same time. But God knows what. And I, and I do have a hard time that, you know, believing that artificial intelligence is going to make all of our decisions for us because.

Well, I'll leave the statement at that. And so what I would suggest is, you know, so what doesn't change is people have needs. If I look at what I've done for 30 years and the value I've created in the world and the systems I've created and the products and the services, I am obsessed about what my customer needs. And I think that if at the end of the day, your audience obsesses about exactly what their customer or client needs all day, every day, and know that like the back of their hand, know that better than even their customers and clients know that as things change, you can evolve and change as an organization. When you talk about what do I see with my clients doing, the ones that are really good at this, that's exactly what they do. They move, they change. When technology changes, as it constantly will and as it has for the last thousand years, you've got to change with that technology.

Back to the six essential traits. If you have those six essential traits, odds are you will make that adjustment. And odds are, if you don't have those six essential traits, you might have gotten lucky and found an idea for a few years and made some money. But you are not statistically going to be able to evolve and make that change because you're just not equipped to turn your company on a dime. I am ready to turn any organization I have. I'll turn it around on a dime. The day I realize that my clients need changed, I'm going to readjust everything to meet that need and, and everything in between that is sadly and truthfully replaceable, changeable. It's all about the customer at the end of the day and providing them incredible value. And you'll last a lot longer with that philosophy. My humble opinion.

No, I happen to agree with you that was good. I think the real big message there is constantly evolve and adapt and pay attention to what people are buying. And ultimately it's the customer's wallet that matters and not your ideals.

The pride is a fast way to not be successful. So I'm also very fascinated in talking to you about what? I don't know if you even described them this way, but it's very apparent in the way you operate, which is your non negotiables. So you have what I would say are non negotiable routines, rituals, self care practices, but also rules of engagement. And I think the biggest challenge that I see entrepreneurs go through I certainly have had myself is this belief of if I don't do this, then this horrible thing will happen. In other words, I have to constantly be adapting and changing and chasing versus doing what I know is the right thing to do. So I'm curious about your perspective on that.

Yeah. Yep. Is there a part two or is that question mark and. And you're ready for me to answer?

No, I think I want you to just go for it and go down the path.

Yeah. And here's what I would ask as I answer this. I don't teach this thing I'm about to share with you and I need you to help pull it out of me. So I've got some thoughts for you immediately. But I'm reminded of a conversation I had in one of my strategic coach classes with a fellow strategic coach student who knows this about me. And we sat there for 15 minutes at lunch and he kept picking and picking and digging and he pulled out of me like 10 of my non negotiables, my boundaries, whatever you want to call them. And so they're in there. So let me start by giving you a few. And so the first is.

Thank God for Dan Sullivan because it's the focus free and buffer days. And so I am fanatical. And so for the last 22, 23 years.

I have built everything I have built by taking 150 free days a year. Those are non negotiable.

You cannot find me on a free day. I do not work at all on a free day and rarely even think business on a free day. So I turn the world off as part of those 150 free days. I take a sabbatical. I take a month long sabbatical every August and you can't find me in August. And. And so most business owners, they think you're crazy. That's crazy. How can that work? It works. And if you work backwards from that, that says you've gotta have great people around you that can run the show when you're gone. And I have taken that August sabbatical now for 20 years running. And where it started, and this is really interesting because where it started is it started when my daughter was born. So from ages 22 to 24, I sold real estate. And I was very.

My daughter was born and I took a month off to be with my daughter in real estate sales, where as a real estate agent, if you leave for a month, I mean, not everything stops. You're it, you're the business. And so I took a month off. I picked someone in my office and I said, you can have all of my business for a month. I'm gonna disappear. I checked out for a month. I lost two deals, all total. That person got the full commission on those deals. Que sera. I got to turn the world off for a month, spend time with my family. It's a no brainer to me. And so that's kind of how that discipline started with that. Then I'm very disciplined about with the remaining 215 days. I work really hard and I'm very disciplined. And like you said, I'm very structured within that. I take 65 buffer days. And that's where they're true buffer days.

And explain what buffer days mean for people. Cause some people might not know the language patterns of coach.

Yeah, yeah, it's great. And so a buffer day is the easy way to back into it is it's everything that is not a free day and everything that is not a focus day. And so a focus day is where you're making money. And so for me, that's doing sessions with clients, that's creating content, that's writing books, that's teaching people stuff. And so it's everything that's left over. And so what a buffer day for me is, it's almost always in a Starbucks. I'm hiding from the world, I'm finishing projects, I'm cleaning up messes, I'm getting organized. I'm preparing for great focus days and great free days. I always, and I highly recommend this to your audience, I always buffer my vacations. And so the day before a vacation and the day after vacation is a buffer. It is jarring to come back from a vacation going 0 miles an hour to 300 miles an hour one hour later on Monday, hypothetically, back to a focus day. So always buffer your vacations. And so I'm very disciplined about that. It starts there with focus free and buffer. And hopefully that defines what that is. Then there's another discipline that I never realized. This and a little bit of it I learned from my dad, who's an incredible entrepreneur. But I have this rule of thumb that I will always get back to you within 24 business hours. So you'll always hear back from me in 24 hours, 24 business hours, but never 15 minutes. I will not live in a 2 minute, 15 minute response time world. We literally, and I literally built EOS Worldwide on this, where the entire organization, the support staff that supports 300 implementers, we'll get back to you in 24 hours, but don't ever expect to call or email and get a response in two minutes or even 15 minutes. We'll get back to you in 24 hours. And if you can do the math on the effect that that has, it's really powerful. And so the other reality is if you ever call me, email me, you will never get ahold of me. You cannot get ahold of me. I operate on my schedule, my time. And so if you call me, you're going to hear back from me in 24 hours. But I am rarely going to grab that call because I'm in the middle of something. I'm either doing a session, I'm creating something, I certainly time block my work. The main point there is that whole I'll get back to you in 24 hours, but never a 15 minute type of a culture. Then the other thing that might be interesting for your audience is within this discipline around focus, free and buffer days. When I built EOS Worldwide with my partner Don Tinney, I took, as I said, the first five years to create EOs working with clients. And then right around the five year mark is when I found Don. We found each other. I was the visionary, he was the integrator. We joined forces to build EOS Worldwide. Well, right out of the chute, I made it very clear to him as your visionary, you have me 45 days a year and not one second more. And so choose wisely. I will give you every second of those 45 days and I'll kill for you, but you get me for 45 days. And so again, if you back into that and understand the power of that, that then helped me clearly understand how much time I had to do sessions with clients, how much time I had to write books. And so it's as opposed to saying we're partners, I'm all in. Whatever you need me, I'll be there. All of a sudden I'd be working 365 days a year. In other words, an entrepreneur given the option will work 365 days a year. You've got to have boundaries or you're going to burn yourself out. That formula that I shared right there, and there are certainly others that aren't coming to me, maybe you can pull out of me, creates a very creative, high energy focused environment for me to do really great work. And that's the best I've got for you off the top of my head.

Well, I want to dive into that a little bit. Why 45 days? Where did that number come from? Because obviously constraints are great and it forces responsibility, it forces preparation on the other party and operating within constraints. But where did that number specifically come from?

So it's the fanaticism around focus free and buffer days. So again, you look at the Math. I've got 150, so those are gone. I'm not gonna be working those days. That leaves 215. I need 65 buffer days. So now we're down to 150 focus days I was doing. I can't remember my session numbers, but, you know, so again, you start adding it up. That then enabled me to do whatever the number of sessions was gonna be at the time. So there were a certain number of session days, there were a certain number of book writing days. And then just giving that math that boiled it down to 45 days. I felt like that was a fair amount of time to give and enough time to give. And then I wanted to make sure I had enough time for the other things. Another example is, as I go forward now, the next two years, and with this new book, Entrepreneurial Leap, I'm giving it 40 days a year. I certainly have a great team in place that's going to be working on it, spending a lot of time on it, but I'm giving it 40 days a year over the next two years to do right by it and launch it. I think that's plenty of time with the right team in place. And so how do I get to that math? Same thing. I'm going to do 50 sessions with my clients this year. I'm going to devote this much time to book writing. And so it's just all simple math. And I'm fanatical about doing the math because again, most entrepreneurs don't do the math well. And then when they add up the time they need to do all of their projects, it comes to 600 days a year. Well, there's only 365 days in the year. So it's just it's doing simple math.

And when you're doing your simple math, how far in advance are you planning? Because clearly this takes a lot of conscientiousness to understand. I mean, if you just start with here's how many free days I'm going to have, for example.

And then determining what are going to be focus and buffer days, you had to arrive at this math not arbitrarily. This came with a base. So let's just look through either an individual who's lived an unstructured entrepreneurial life or a new entrepreneur who listening to this would terrify them. I know for me, when I started coach, and I'll be the first one to say, I'm still pretty undisciplined about it, the distinction is I definitely block out my free days. Generally my Fridays are no work days unless it's something special and it's family oriented, for example. And I have buffer blocks more than I do have buffer days.

And that again comes from.

Honestly, a lack of training of my team more than anything else. And also my own particular style. I don't have a problem with shorter breaks than full day breaks, for example, although that's changing now. I really see the value in it, but it came from a scarcity mentality that I would be like, how am I going to possibly block out that time or have the wherewithal to stick to it? Because an opportunity may come up and I'll be like, oh my God, if I don't do this, then this horrible thing would happen. So I guess my question for you is some of it's the psychology behind the commitment. And the other part is, where do those numbers truly come from? How did you arrive at them in a way that you can plan ahead? So if I ask this question all over again, number one, do you plan years in advance, a year in advance, and then how do you work backwards from there?

I plan years in advance. I would suggest that, yes, there's a lot of thought that goes into it and planning that goes into it. So I'm a big believer in what I and we at EOS Worldwide prescribe our clarity breaks. And everybody's clarity break is different, but that's where you're sitting, quiet time somewhere. For me, it's always a coffee shop. I have my favorite Starbucks that I sit in and for me it's two hours a week. So it's typically a buffer day. I carve out two hours and that's where I'm really thinking about my life, the big picture, getting Clear. And so I do spend time doing this math. And so I literally have a 10 year picture of what I want my focus free and buffer days to look like. At that point, I want to be taking two one month sabbaticals. And so I am looking that far out. And then after looking that far out, I don't spend a ton of time on that. But then I do look one, two, three years out into the future. I have a very clear three year picture for myself as well. And so I am looking that far out. And again, I'm just doing simple math. And my six follow through on my Colby helps me be a little more organized around this. And so for your 1 and 2 follow throughs on this, in your audience, that's where they need to work with their assistant or somebody who is structured and just have them do some of the heavy lifting around this. But it is simple math. There is only so much time in a day and it's backing into it from how many free days do you want to take? Okay, that's only leaving this many days for business. And then what you're reminding me of as you're saying this, because you're right, I know there's a large percentage of your audience that are going, holy cow, how is that even possible? I am obsessed about my business all day, every day. And it reminds me, I did a podcast a couple months ago with a young guy, 21 years old, an entrepreneur getting started, but he's all about growth and a really successful podcast. And when I told him very early in the podcast that I take 150 days off a year, he paused. It knocked him off his chair almost. And he said, I have never heard that before. And so we got in this conversation, I said, listen, it is a fallacy that entrepreneurs have to work 24 7, 365. It is a fallacy. It is not true, it is not real. And so my point in all of that is it's just unfortunately, somewhere people in your audience that think that way, they learn something and they just learned it wrong. If you can take this discipline I'm talking about and back into it like that.

I believe you're going to be more productive as a result of it. Your family's certainly going to stick around.

So you'll be happier, you'll be healthier, you'll be more energized. My brain is always working and anytime I do have an idea, which they flash at all kinds of weird times when you're obsessed about your business or your thing, I just Write it down and move on. So I always keep a legal pad near me. I write it down. I don't get obsessed in it during free time. And when I come back, my buffer or focus day, I grab those notes that might have come to mind. For me, that's the best answer I've got for you there.

Good. Next one.

Think past this book for a moment, which I'm sure you have, because you're thinking years in advance. So if this book does what you want it to do for you and your audience.

I would assume that you're looking at other dangers and opportunities in your own strengths. Again, to coin some coach that's called DOS for listeners who aren't familiar with this. And I'm curious what other dangers you see either for yourself, your organization or the next in line people you want to serve. What's going on next?

Yeah, first of all, from an EOS Worldwide standpoint, as I mentioned, Don and I sold that company last year and we sold it really well. From a standpoint of we built a strong team, we planned it out very methodically. Don and I are not involved in that business at all. When you talk about.

Those kind of concerns, I don't think or worry for one second about what's going to happen with EOS Worldwide because there are much smarter people than me that are there to do that. So I don't spend a second on that. Right, wrong or indifferent, I still own 12.5% of that company. I do provide eight days of advisory to them.

Mostly coaching and navigating with the integrator of the business. To answer your question, a two parter here. First of all, for the first time, I don't know what the next thing is going to be and I don't know that I need to right now because just like with Entrepreneurial Leap, it flashed into my mind at age 40 and then 12 years later, here we are and it's finally becoming a reality. And so I've made a 10 year commitment to this Entrepreneurial Leap project. And so, you know, I think the next thing that's going to come, you know, it's going to flash into my mind in the next probably three to five years I am going to be. I love how Dan Sullivan says he's going to die in the middle of multiple projects. What I do, I love so much. Whatever it's going to be, it's around entrepreneurs and helping entrepreneurs. I'm going to do it till I keel over, but I don't know what it is. And then in terms of worrying about what's going to change or.

I don't spend a lot of time on that, Although I do keep my ear to the ground. If I see something changing, my style is again, right, wrong, or indifferent, I will change on a dime. I am not attached to one bit of anything. If the world changes, if my client changes, I'm gonna change on a dime, and I'm gonna do it really fast. And so to sit around and obsess about it, I have a client. It's a personal injury firm. A very large, very successful personal injury firm. Really good people. And he obsessed for the first five years in our relationship, you know, what am I going to do when the laws change? What am I going to do? So he's always thinking about, should I get in other businesses, start a different kind of law firm, do this, do that. And I keep telling him, listen, let's pretend it happens. How many days will it take you to turn on a dime? And the truth of the matter is, stop worrying about it when it happens. You are so entrepreneurial, you'll turn on a dime. And then we went through a couple examples of crises he's had in his life where he solves it in a week, you know, so that's, you know, and again, that's controversial because then there's a group of the world that would say, oh, no, you gotta think about this stuff all day, every day, and you gotta know what your competition is doing, and you gotta research your competition. And so I just. I don't subscribe to that thinking. I just obsess about the client and watch what's going on there and adjust accordingly.

I love that. I agree philosophically, 100%. So I think my other big question for you is.

You'Ve got your free days and your buffer days.

What is fascinating you more than anything right now, either inside or outside of this business? What, where do you enjoy or what do you enjoy thinking about that inspires you, keeps you moving, activates all of your senses that you love daydreaming about and thinking about and what if. Ing about, like, what is taking up that space right now?

I feel like that's such an unfair question from a standpoint of how easy it is for me to answer right now because I am so mired in this new project. I mean, the book hasn't even come out yet.

What I am obsessing about and what gives me great passion and joy and I mean, it's like a kid in a candy store is so another way. In terms of the way My mind works is I always have this visual in my mind and it's similar to what I've been saying. But here's the product, here's the audience or the target market, or the client or the customer or whatever you want to call it. I'm always obsessing about connecting those two dots. There's so many ways to do it. What gives me great joy right now is connecting those dots, obsessing about this content, figuring out how to get this content in the best way possible, in the most efficient way possible to these people.

There's really two major categories in that right now for me. One is deciding what are the right tools to give them that is the most efficient way for them to absorb the content. So in addition to just reading the book, I'm looking at some E classes and I'm creating this something I'm calling a leap journal, which is a way to really reinforce. So that's kind of toolsy related stuff that gets me excited. The second thing that has me excited is.

Dan Sullivan's on this big kick right now about collaborators and collaboration. It's so profound right now. It's so right on where I have this list of 70 collaborators and they all want to help me get from here to here.

I'm just so fascinated about who are the right collaborators. What's the right profile for the perfect collaborator. For me, looking at all these wonderful, exciting ideas out there, I just want to create a business that is very, very unique because I don't want to build another empire. I don't want another organization with 300 people that I'm ultimately responsible for. I want a really small company that's working with a bunch of collaborators that want to help entrepreneurs in the making. And I want to just give them the content. I want to make their lives easier. They have audiences of entrepreneurs in the making that they want to help. And I just want to keep figuring out ways to make it as seamless as possible for them to access this content, teach it to people. And so that's what's got me all lathered up this current point in my life.

I love it. I love it. That's a great answer. That's a great answer to the question. So well, let's wrap up this part because one of the things that I know you have is an entrepreneur in the making assessment@elite.com that's eleap.com that's where they can get a free chapter of your book and also click to order it on Amazon. But what's Your big ask, what would you like people to do that would help you out the most and help them and their entrepreneurs in the making?

Yeah, I love it. So this is assuming that we're talking to an audience of entrepreneurs.

And so if that's true, I mean, my.

We definitely are. We definitely are.

Exactly. And not entrepreneurs in the making and also not.

Librarians. Right. So these are all entrepreneurs. And so my big ask would be, is if you have a passion for helping future entrepreneurs and helping entrepreneurs in the making, please buy this book and hand it to them. Hand it to anyone that you want to help and follow that mentor track where you give it to them. You say, read this, let's meet in a week, bring all of your questions, and again, you get to tell your life story. You get to share all of your wisdom and your nuggets and answer all their questions. So buy them a book, give them this book, follow that mentor track, and hopefully buy a bunch of books and give it to a bunch of entrepreneurs. And then also, if you know of anyone educating and helping entrepreneurs, buy them a book, send them a book, because they might be a great collaborator in this. And then again, to your point, there's a great way to just put your toe in the water. There's a free assessment. And so if you know somebody who you think is an entrepreneur in the making, it might be your son, your daughter, your niece, your nephew, send them to e-leap.com, have them take that free assessment. They'll get a result and have a real good sense of whether entrepreneurship is for them. Certainly, downloading that free chapter, they can get the first 25 pages of the book for free and get a nice taste. But that would be my ask, is buy the book, send it to somebody who you think is an entrepreneur in the making, and embark on a journey to really change and impact their life and help them get there faster to either a decision that they are or they aren't, because knowing that they aren't is a huge step on their journey.

Excellent. Excellent. I appreciate that. Well, let's do this. Don't go anywhere. Gino, I'm going to talk to you offline a little bit, but I'm going to close this off by just letting our viewers know. Number one, head on over to e leap.com, do everything that Gino described. And also, if you enjoyed this podcast episode, certainly share it with an entrepreneur, entrepreneur in the making. Because I think you'll agree with me that Gino has a very unique brain and he represents a great upgrade, a capability upgrade for you or someone you know. And I, I want to model you more in my own life because I know how much freedom thinking this way has given me. My quality of my life, my health, my marriage, my relationship with my 17 year old son has dramatically improved because of this, this type of work. And it's because of the work that you do. So I want to thank you for that. And, and then again, if you love this, rate it, review it, leave your comments, head back over to Capability Amplifier, leave a message to myself. If you leave a message for Gino, I will forward that to him as well. So I want to thank you for another great, great episode of Capability Amplifier. And Gino, you're awesome.

Thanks, Mike. Great job. This was a blast.

Awesome. Thank you.