Rewind: Sheri Salata- Meet Oprah’s Producer of 20+ Years

There is no question that the fastest way to transformation in your own life, to how you feel about yourself, to how you feel about your partner, to how you feel about your friends and family, to how you feel about your life, your home, your everything, is to slip on a pair of magical glasses and lead with what is working, what's positive, what's sparkly and what's shiny. And here's why. That ignites the transformation of how you view something. And once you start igniting that transformation of how you view something, your actual experience of that person, of that thing changes. It is the simple practice, though not so simple. You have to really focus to do it. That creates outcomes.

Welcome to the Capability Amplifier, the show for business owners and entrepreneurs who want high performance upgrades for their brains, bodies and bank accounts. Thursday morning, 100 pounds overweight, no man in sight. And rounding the bend, 57 years old, a full blown catastrophe. Today's guest on Capability Amplifier is Sherry Salata. She did a 20 year stint at the Oprah Winfrey Show, Harpo Studios and the own network as a producer and she's dedicated decades to her dream job and loved almost every minute of it. But she's also author of the Beautiful no and Other Tales of Trial, Transcendence and Transformation. Thank you for being here, Sherry. And nice to see you.

Hi, I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

It's my pleasure. So I think the way and I want to continue sort of the momentum just from the intro because I love the story and how you open this up. But you went from working at 7:11 to becoming an executive producer at Oprah, working behind the camera to leaving the show to reinvent yourself, write this bestselling book and become the host of your podcast show. Tell us a little bit about your journey. I think that's a good place to start.

Oh, my goodness. Well, it was not a straight shot by any means. And I think that when people Hear about a 20 year career with Oprah Winfrey, it sounds like I just left college and sailed on right into Harvo Studios and started climbing up the ladder. But the truth is I did not start at the Oprah Winfrey show until I was 35 years old in an entry level position. So that should give hope to lots of people.

It does. And that was one of my big takeaways because I actually sat down and I burned through the book and I read it. And what you've really done is first of all, encapsulated your own life in a super genuine, authentic way. But it certainly is representative of anyone who hits their 40s or 50s, men and women included. Definitely. This feels like a woman's book in a lot of ways. I love the way it's framed, although I think it's important that men read it to really understand their spouses, their mates and women they work with. Because psychologically, what you went through and experienced is intense. But to get really focused and to drive to a question, you've spent your life in a lot of ways focused on makeovers, reinventions, and then here you are reinventing yourself and you know, it's not like you had to do it from a business perspective, you had to do it for you. So talk a little bit about just that authentic journey that you went on as a result of this.

Well, Mike, it's the great paradox that I had a seat to some of the world's foremost wisdom keepers of our time. There was no dearth of information. I had all the information. I had information coming out my ears. I had notebooks. I'm an A student man. I had notebooks filled with the latest information and advice and tips and all the best living kinds of things. But like so many people in the transformational world, it's one thing to produce transformation, another thing to write about transformation, another thing to market transformation and then to be transformed. They're very, very different things. And it isn't about a lack of authenticity. What it is is that turn that must be made where you take that information and let it root in your bones and you kind of simplify what transformation really is like. You know, now I see that some of my grandiosity, like I'm going to summit the mountain and then I do it for six months and then I do nothing. I'm gon run half marathons and I trained for eight months and then nothing. And what I realized in all of those big grand plans and schemes and programs and all of that, there inherently was kind of a self sabotage thing going on that, you know, when you make it so high and so difficult that oftentimes you really are setting yourself up for failure. And I think it wasn't until I could clear my calendar and clear my mind and really take a very honest, tender look at what I'd created in my life where I could see that, oh, Sheri, Sheri, Sherry. It is those little things. It's a glass of water, it's a walk around the block. It's five minutes of mindfulness. And I would just always dismiss those things because I was making big things.

Happen that is so consistent. And you and I know a lot of the same people, and you talked about them in the book. Deepak was always a regular. One person that we had in common was Debbie Ford. She had cancer while I had cancer. She was my guide while I went through that experience. We both know Jack Canfield. And one thing that Jack has been very, very open about and very transparent is the fact that most people in personal development, their personal lives are usually a wreck. If it's not them, it's their marriage, it's their children. Jack and had an amazing journey with his own son, for example. And again, he's been very. I don't feel like I'm betraying him at all by talking about this, but. And like you say, it's the start, stop, start, stop, which is always looking for the quick fix. There seems to be a high degree of addiction that runs inside the personal development space, no matter what it is, whether it's food or whatever. But, you know, when you as a producer, you got to see behind the scenes, and I'm curious what your experience was, just observing what was real in front of the camera versus what wasn't real behind the camera. How did that affect you?

Well, my observances, you know, weren't super detailed. So, you know, there were times when I. When I would notice some behavior and I'd be like, hmm, that seems inconsistent. And then there were times, like, for instance, you mentioned Deepak, who I love and adore. And mostly I love and adore him because he is who he is. Who he is. Who he is. Whether he and I are having a chat, you know, somewhere in a forest, or whether he is on stage speaking to thousands and thousands of people. He's Deepak. And I like that so much about him, and I respect that so much. You know, I think. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why it's so hard for us to take care of ourselves. I mean, that. That really is like, do we need to excavate to get to that. That love place where we understand that there's nobody on this earth that should be loving us more than us. Nobody. Because all of a sudden, when we're in that place and we've made that decision and we select and inhabit the practices in our daily lives that juice that up, that love of self. When we do that, everybody else in our lives is off the hook. Nobody has to make us happy. Nobody has to behave a certain way for us to feel that all is right with the world. We're in alignment with ourselves. And that is my current dream right now, is to be in that place 80% of the time.

I hear you on that. And that's something that you and I were talking about before we started rolling today is as we go through life and we accomplish professionally what we accomplish. And so often there's the wreckage, as I like to say. Someone said something like, you know, when someone big with a big personality goes through the forest, there's always a lot of timber left behind. There's bodies lying in the street, and it's sort of like your own soul is one of those bodies and what you give up to accomplish and succeed. I'm curious for you, which I didn't see in the book specifically, but you talk a lot about in the book about how you, you were just a big driver and you did everything right, but you weren't rewarded as one of the pretty girls, for example.

Right.

I'm curious from a psychological perspective right now what your observation again of working with so many big personalities and now you're really reaching out mainstream with this new platform of yours and obviously talking to millions through the Oprah Network, how do you bridge that moment of truth again, getting back to like when you've accomplished all you want to accomplish and, and you're at this empty place, Talk a little bit about the emptiness and getting through the, what happens next. The day after you left Oprah, for example.

Right. So let's talk about that. The real fear that was going on and it wasn't like I didn't feel like, oh, I've accomplished all, you know, that I can possibly accomplish.

Everything had come to an end. It was time for that piece to be over. And I think for me what it was was.

Let me start by, let me compliment myself by saying I'm not an idiot. And as unconscious as the talent and the gift that I have for going unconscious is very, very well practiced and I'm very good at it. But there was a big part of me that knew that there were many areas of my life that I wasn't as effective in, that we're just gathering dust on the shelf. So I think what happens in that, in that early beginning and for everybody that could be different for me. I call that process the reckoning, where I had to fire the harsh self critical voice in my head that has driven me since I can remember and I had to insert a new kind of voice, a tender voice, a compassionate voice, because otherwise I didn't think I would be able to get through. Would have been, it might have taken my legs out from underneath me. And once I found that tender voice, that voice that I would use with anybody, stranger or friend, family member, my English bulldogs, Bella and Kissy, that voice that is understanding and compassionate, then I was absolutely willing to go through the process. And here's what I realized. So I came to a few conclusions. All right, I was 56, and I said, if you do all those practices that you know would feel really good, you might live another 40 years. What are you doing with that time? And, okay, you're 56. You've had, you've manifested this amazing career. Is that it now? Is your plate empty? What are you doing? Are you just going camping? What, what, what's happening now? You know, you're creative, you're innovative. You know, there is a life of your dreams that you haven't manifested yet. And the big question for me, Mike, was, what is that? Because for 20 something years, every, every day began with, how would Oprah do this? What would Oprah want? You know, how do we achieve this, this dream and this vision of Oprah? So, you know, I don't think I was even super clear on what is the life of my dreams.

And I'm listening to you right now in the way, even how you answer questions and how you think. I really enjoy this. And, and I'm going to ask you another question. So last night, Vivian, my wife Vivian, who, you know, for all the listeners out there, I actually met Sherry through Vivian, and she said, oh, my God, I just met this amazing woman. I just love her. I love how she thinks. And then, of course, you came and. And produced her last fundraiser, which was just a smashing success. And one of the things that you are amazing at, what both Vivian and I see you do socially, is first of all, you're really interested in people. And I'm curious, how are you able to see a story in someone and not only see that there is a story, but how that represents a bigger lesson for an audience? And how do you listen for that? And what do you listen for?

That is a fantastic question. Well, you know, I mean, I mean, obviously, you know, for years, and specifically the training at the Oprah show, there's nothing better. That was the world class will never be anything like it ever again. Where our job was to dive in and find the stories and then find a way to make that meaningful to an audience. And I would say that Oprah was, it was Professor Winfrey who really walked us through all the grades and levels and coursework that was Required there. You know, I like stories. I've been a storyteller since I was a little girl. And, you know, that's something I think about when I meet people. You know, like when we met and when I remember when I first met Vivian, I'm like, what a story this is. But it's even beyond the obvious. You know, there's. There's facts and details of our lives that we'd put on a resume or that we'd put on in a bio. You know, when for those of us in business who have to do bios, there's something else more tangible, more soulful that I think makes life more interesting. When we're talking to somebody and we're just really willing to feel them. I can't totally describe what that is other than it just feels more like an energetic connection, like watching for the point of distinction. How are you different from everybody else I've ever met? Like, what's shining about you to me? And usually those things jump out and then I just. The more I pay attention to them, the more I discover.

So you use the word shining. What's unique and what's shining? I'm going to ask a version of the same question, which is developing this skill. And you talked about Professor Winfrey and having access to the tools. Can you talk a little bit about those tools? Because I think inside of a transformation and inside of a reinvention, it really is getting to that authentic core and being able to first see it in someone else and is always easier than seeing it in ourselves.

Always.

Yeah, always. So let's go down that path about developing that skill and recognizing that shine, knowing how to amplify that shine so it becomes meaningful.

Right? Well, I mean, there were times I worked for the Oprah Winfrey show, and there might be some of your people in your audience who think that was very touchy feely, but it was a hard drive and billion dollar business. My, that required a lot. I mean, putting 140, 150 shows on a year that are like primetime quality is not for the faint of heart. But here's what I find in my new day as I'm kind of bubbling up things that are more like qualities in myself that are more magnetic and less. Make it happen. Make it happen, because I'm really looking for the life of my dreams and I'm tinkering with that recipe. But there's some things that even I, in my C suite heyday, would have thought were too light. They would better been too, like life work. Light. And there's something that I call magical glasses. And there is no question that the fastest way to transformation in your own life, to how you feel about yourself, to how you feel about your partner, to how you feel about your friends and family, to how you feel about your life, your home, your everything, is to slip on a pair of magical glasses and lead with what is working, what's positive, what's sparkly and what's shiny. And I was not raised that way. You know, I, from a generational point of view, my parents were raised by worrywart depression people, God love every single one of them, but that's kind of. It was like, the other shoe's gonna drop. What's around the corner, what disaster's waiting for you? You know, what's wrong with this? What's wrong with that person? What's wrong with this situation? Don't get too happy, it might get snatched away. So in many, many ways I'm formed by that. So I have to really consciously put on my magical glasses and say, okay, now we are going to look at this person, this situation, this experience we're having in life and we are going to look for the shiny, sparkly things about it. And here's why. That ignites the transformation of how you view something. And once you start igniting that transformation of how you view something, your actual experience.

Of that person, of that thing changes. It is the simple practice, though not so simple. You have to really focus to do it. That creates outcomes. I can't even believe how powerful it is.

Well, it leads me to asking the next question, which is one of the things that was always amazing about Oprah. And I watched it because I loved great television, I love great storytelling, and I'm a big fan of real time social proof. It's hard as hell.

You were an Oprah viewer?

Believe it or not, I was. No, I didn't watch it a lot because I was working my ass off from the day I was 16 years old and, and working hard for over 30. But I watched it because I was just always impressed with the drama and I couldn't help but. And I produced programming. I did a feature film and documentaries and a lot of real time sales level stuff. But we had to create essentially infomercials to and we had to have social proof that touched emotions so people would want to buy. And when you said, you know, this was a multi billion dollar machine, I understand that on a deep level. And I know something you talked about in the book the Ugly Cry, for example, that's what it's called, right?

Yes, the Ugly cry.

But be able to reach that and pull something out again that was authentic and that really created this, such an unbelievable emotional experience for the viewers. And so, going back to the story, the Social proof, can you think of one of your favorite magical glasses moments from a program and what made for that moment to actually happen and occur? Is there anything that pops into your mind when I talk about.

Oh, my gosh, there's a million things. I mean, that's one great story. I mean, that was, that was part of the deal, you know, that was a day in, day out thing. Well, here one of my favorite things was Oprah's favorite things, and for the same reason that Oprah loved that show, because it never was about the things it was about. I remember one day she talked about she'd wake up in the morning and she's looking out her window at Lake Michigan, and what she knows is there's 400 people getting ready to come to their big moment at the show. And it was, it mattered very much to our studio audience to come to Oprah's house at Harpo Studios. And they have no idea that they're about to have this moment. And there were all kinds of things. Sometimes we do teachers, some, you know, like the most underappreciated people on the planet. We do people who had gone through really hard times, you know, people who, who really, like, just weren't sure that life was ever going to work out for them. And then you would see not about the things that the possibility that they could be literally lifted up like that and taken by surprise with love and affection and, and being special and being validated and being rewarded. That was always something that I'd go home that night, and I think that was amazing.

That's great. I love that.

So the next question is this is something. It's also known as the Dan Sullivan question. I had to modify it a little bit, and I don't think you've ever heard of this before. So I'm going to tell you what the Dan Sullivan question is, okay. And I'm gonna reframe it a little bit for you because I think it needs to be modified. But one of the things that Dan loves to ask is if you and I were sitting down three years from now, what would it take to look back at your journey and say that this investment in time or the movement you're making was the best investment you've ever made in your life? And so the way I would reframe that Is if you and I were having this conversation three to five years from now, and I hope we will, what advice would you give the woman you've become to the woman you are now. Let's see. Or the woman you are. You know what I'm asking here.

Woman at three years from now to the woman I've become right now.

Exactly. And what would have happened in your life that you feel is truly evolved you. So it's a little bit of beautiful future pacing.

Yes. I love this. Well, this is such a great question because here's what I know.

I'm going to borrow some things that have really gotten my motor running from Abraham Hicks. You know Abraham Hicks, right?

Absolutely.

Here's what Abraham's talking about right now. Leverage. Leverage. And you know I have that Midwestern sensibility where you're, you know, to do list and push that rock uphill and take your lunch pail down to the salt mine, but leverage, leverage, leverage, leverage. So here's what I'm going to say to the me of right now. The me of three years from now is going to say to the me right now, you have done everything right, girl. Everything right. And what you're doing right now in learning to focus on leveraging the energy that creates worlds, in being in alignment, in sitting down for meditation, in eating a big bowl of plants, has literally put you in, in the middle of the life of your dreams and then some. This isn't even the life of your dream, Sherry. This is beyond what you were capable of dreaming of three years ago. That's good, huh?

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That's really interesting. And I'm going to go down this Abraham Hicks. When Abraham Hicks talks about leverage, what does that mean through that lens? Because I know my interpretation of it, but I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing. Because a lot of our audience, they're hard driving entrepreneurs, serial entrepreneurs. They built businesses and leverage to them is lifestyle. And that's freedom of time, money, relationship and purpose.

Right. And I think we're swimming in the same pond right there. You know, from a spiritual perspective, how I'm using it is saying that this, that there is always an easier way and it always begins with that total connection, that alignment where, where you, you literally unleash synchronicity in, on, on your path. It's like, it's like the magic dust of really putting into practice what you say. You believe that the universe has your back, that there's unseen forces that are literally right there ready to lift us up to put the right person in front of us. The phone rings. This opportunity comes through that. You know, sometimes when we're slogging away at the salt mine, we're just. It's like. It's like we have headphones on, we have blinders on. We can't see all the magic that's being served up to us. And I honestly do believe this. I always have. But. But now I am. I'm. I'm willing to prove that to myself on an hourly basis that this. This life, this experience in this human form is meant to be magical. And that there are some very simple things we can do to really amp up the power of that magic. And part of it is just being willing to be dazzled, being willing to see the sparkle that's sitting right across from us. You know, really just being willing to be delighted at every turn instead of bracing for, you know, what screw up is going to cross our path. It's a decision about how we're gonna walk through the world. And every day that I make that decision and I adhere to it, magic surrounds me again.

It really has to do with just recognizing your old programming. You and I have that one thing we have in common. I was born and raised in Minnesota, and Dan was also a Midwest boy. Raised a Catholic. 12 years of parochial education for both of us. So very much this deep programming.

Catholic high school.

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I endured 12 years of it. And now one of the things that you're doing that I personally find delightful. I know you do as well, is you have your podcast, the Sherry and Nancy show, and you've done lots of episodes. I am curious from your perspective, what has that done for you so far? And what do you love most about podcasting?

Well, here. Okay, here's the irony when. When someone suggested we do a podcast to have these middle of life reinvention conversations, I. I was a TV girl, and I was snobbish, and I was like, does anybody listen to those? Oh, my gosh, how embarrassing. This is the way now. This is how people bring the content they really want into their lives. This is how we all become our own little networks. And I love it. And so here's what it's done for me. I was very guarded. Even with people close to me, Mike, I was very guarded. Like the things that you're reading in my book. I wouldn't have said to anyone, but almost a hundred episodes in, I sit in rooms or on Zoom with one of my best friends of 30 years, and we just chat about our fears. About our mistakes, about, you know, what our new dreams are, about what we're doing to get them, how we're stirring up the magic in our lives. And we talk about stuff that I can't even believe I talk about until someone will say, oh, how brave I was. And then I'm like, oh, God, tell my dad not to listen to that one. And, and then that helps me write the book. And then all of a sudden, I'm just a font of, of expression and revelation. Because here's the healing. Once you speak it out loud, there is no shame. Once you speak it out loud, you're no longer humiliated. All those things, that's a made up story. That's a made up story. And once you bring something to the light, it's over. And I feel like I'm that, that this podcast, the Sherry and Nancy show, has healed me in many ways.

Well, let's go down that path. So I'm curious, what has been one of your biggest revelations? And oh, my God, I never would have talked about that, but it came out and you found it to be super healing. And you got a lot of feedback, a lot of reactions that you either didn't expect or oh, yeah, yeah, tell me, tell me a story about something like that.

Well, I mean, the big one, you know, in your, in your audience of people who've run big things and, and gotten tons of validation and have been admired for it and admired and envied or whatever the outside world is like, oh, my gosh, that's so great. And you're so amazing. And yet the humiliation of knowing I'm really not that amazing because I can't get a handle on this weight thing. I have not built a successful love life. I have all these empty holes in my life. You know, for many years, even at the Oprah show, I was smoking, for God's sakes, running from Dr. Oz every time he came in the building because I didn't want. I was ashamed. So as we sit and talk about what we're doing about these areas of our lives, we've, we've had, we've had Dr. Laura Berman, a sex therapist on, and we've shared our intimate conversations with her where, you know, she talks about how Sherry, as a, as a leader, as a make it happen person, did not. And all those qualities did not leave a lot of room for kind of the divine feminine. And, you know, there's, there was a suggestion of pole dancing somewhere in there. So, yeah, so it's those kinds of things. Mike.

I love it.

When I read your book, I did see a lot of stuff. I'm like, God dang it. You know, because you've been very open with Vivian and I. We've, we've been out a few times. We're in TLC together. And, you know, the nature of that group is it's just very open and for listeners. This is called the Transformational Leadership Council. It's, it's run started by Jack Canfield, and it's just filled with some of the original people who began the personal development, personal growth movement, many of which showed up on the Secret Back. Many of them have been on Oprah or friends with Oprah even.

Right.

So there's a lot of history there. And, you know, you're just an open vessel. And it's. It's great listening to it. And it's. It is. It's hard for anyone, especially, I think it's still harder for men in general to be open about our flaws and deficiencies because we're afraid we're going to be abandoned. We're going to be afraid that's going to tap into and remove our ability to be a great provider.

Right.

And I'm curious right now, like, you obviously have. The podcast from my Lens is definitely for women, but do you have male listeners that you're aware of and commenters?

Yes, it's. About 25% of our audience are men, I'm sure. And, you know, who knows? Maybe the women in their lives bring them into it. And Nancy and I actually, last year we did a big event at 1440, multiversity, and there was this small pocket of men. And I was so curious, like, what. Why they were there, if they were there to be with their women. And then after it was over, I'm like. And I mean, they were like, my life has completely changed forever. Because being around people who are willing to go there and talk about the things that are embarrassing or shameful or feel like failure and just lay their failures out on the table and still say, still I have a dream, still I have hope that I can live the life of my dreams, that it's not too late.

And that is definitely something that resonates especially with our aging baby boomers and frankly, from the Gen Xers who are moving towards that right now as well. You know, we all go through these cycles, and it's my opinion, in fact, that right now, what Gen Y, Gen Z, millennials we're all going to be dealing with, or they'll all be dealing with, is they're going to go through so many faster, more frequent phases of obsolescence because our market is changing, our entire economy, our world is changing so quickly and we've got to deal with reinvention and transformation and transcending the meaning of not being useful anymore in the thing that we train for, that we invest so much in for, or we go into debt over.

Oh, I love that so much and I love that you're bringing up. Because here's what I see that's different for the younger, younger, younger women. Whichever Alphabet letter generation they're a part of, I see them. They're not going to have the same self care issues as women of my generation. They put self care first. They will be like, you just sit down and wait and I'll be at work when my massages over. And I say that in a funny way. But, but that, that, that love piece, that self love piece, that honoring and nurturing one, their, their. So that's not their issue. And here's what I'm excited about for them. They have like a, and maybe this is the evolution of our, our species. They have a resilience. There's resilience all over the place going on there. And what's important for us, 40s, 50s, 60s and beyond is if we don't want to be obsolete, we need to find a way to bring that resilience into our own lives. Because you know, if somebody wants to sit down in a lawn chair and grill out on their, their driveway, you know, like in, in days when I saw middle aged people growing up, that's, that's all great with me if that's your dream. But I suspect for many of us, we're not done. We aren't totally living the lives of our dreams. There's, you know, there's a whole new way to move through the world. There is even more passionate love. There's, you know, more exciting creative projects. There's travel, there's adventure, there's discovery. There's so many things yet to do that we have to change the language around it. I don't like the word retirement. I don't like the word middle age. I like middle of life, middle of life. And now the opportunity is with everything. You know, if you focus on resilience, if you focus on really drilling down to what your dreams are today, I think our glory days can be ahead of us. That's the bold statement I'm making, sir.

Yeah, that's something that you talked about in your book when you said I'm right now, I'm probably halfway through where in the past, you know, we'd look at it and the average age might be 80 and people who are 10 years younger than us are gonna see, you know, you know, there's a hockey stick coming along. One thing that Dan talks about is he's got a book called How I Plan to live to be 156.

Oh, I love that. I gotta read that.

It's everything that he does, it's all about 10xing and 100xing and. And it gives you a different lens to look at life through. So I, I want to ask you a little bit about something else that's a little bit practical and tactical. Again, tied to your podcast, tied to the fact that you spend so much time in the media. But through the lens of building a platform. These days we have unbelievably fragmented media. It's easy and free to create your own podcast show. It's easy and free to have your channels on Instagram and YouTube. What's your advice and what's your plan, your strategy, or what you have in mind for building and growing your platform moving forward? What excites you and what feels approachable and reasonable and realistic to Sherry Salata and also Nancy, your partner with the podcast?

Yeah, I know this is gonna sound really crazy because in my former life I would have had a million plans. I would have put up my graphics, we would have talked about it that way. My two year plan, my three year plan, my five year plan. I'm trying to do this differently now. And I put myself in a position where it's possible. So let me start by saying that I put myself in a position where I can see what feels good. Like, am I going to write a second book? You know, people are asking and I'm like, well, let's see, let's see if that, you know, if my voice is resonant, if it's resonant, I surely liked doing it. It wasn't the easiest thing, but I think, I think now that I've been through it once, it would be an easier process for me and maybe I'll do that. And you know, people are asking me to come speak at things. That's interesting. I like meeting people. I'm interested to see how that works. I, Nancy and I have our podcast. We have a ball doing it. We have so much fun. And so we'll probably keep doing that. And then we have a digital platform where we kind of take all the principles and, and things that we're learning and kind of put it together into these pillars. And that's the pillar Life dot com. What will become of all those things? The books, the podcast, the this, the that? I am not exactly sure. I'm, you know, I move in the direction of what feels like a yes. And right now, being a first time author, gosh, I guess maybe that was a dream at some point. And it's, it's a fantastical experience. As you know, it's amazing. And I find myself so interested in being in the moment on it and not letting it get past me. Like a lot of first things, got to be perfectly honest, it was like, wow, this is great. Boom, under the next thing. Boom, under the next thing. And so I'm really trying to see what bubbles up. Here's what I think. I think what Nancy and I are talking about, what I write about in the book, there is resonant. There's a little bit of a space here for us to kind of all band together and support each other and uplift each other and give each other hope that we really can live the life of our dreams, that it's not too late and we can encourage and inspire one another to get to it.

I love that it's powerful and I love the fact that, you know, part of what you're saying is, I don't know, let's see where it goes. Kind of, it's nice to live organically.

Oh, my God. And listen that I even hear myself say that. I'm like, that doesn't sound like you, but it is kind of me now. It is kind of me. I kind of like it too. You know, just to see, like, here's an offering. Do people respond? Here's an offering. Do people respond? But the offering was the work. The offering was the creative project. I've already gotten my juice from it, you know, but what am I going to do next? You know, what, what do I want to do next? And what offerings? Like, you know, the Pillar Life is an inspirational lifestyle brand. Maybe that will become the anchor point thing of everything we're, you know, we're doing. And it's, it's, you're right, it's very organic. I remember when you and I were in Mexico, I was like, oh my God, Mike, you are a business mastermind. Remember how you were writing down things for me? It was so great.

I do. It was fun.

I got to meet you in person first. And obviously I knew you through the show, but now that I've been forced to do this interview, you know, I read your book, I poured through all your marketing materials. All your materials and what you're doing. What was refreshing for me to experience through you is the power of the platform. Because the beauty of having a platform is you can just ask your audience, what do you want? And when you've got enough interest, and they say, here's what I want. And you don't have that flexibility. When you're in a broadcast environment, you really are the slave of a channel and the producers. And a lot of people don't realize that still to this day, not as much, but there are a tremendous number of talented people. People have been in television and movies for a long time, and they still don't have a list. And years, right? And years ago, I did a bunch of advisory work for Paula Abdul, and she was on tv. She was doing infomercials. She's really a remarkable person, and she had no list. She had no flexibility or power in her life. And now she's reinvented herself, really four times over. She's really a remarkably resilient person because she's dealt with some incredible challenges. But it was just so sad to talk to her and say, well, what if you did this? She just can't do that because of this. Can't do that because of this. It was a minefield. And now when you look at these young influencers who haven't had the resistance right. In a single channel can give you, you know, remarkable reach worldwide in a short period of time. It's.

Well, that's been the game changer for me, you know, and if I would have known what I know now, back when I was dealing with Oprah's list. Oh, look, I mean, that would have been something. But, you know, I am like. I am like a newbie in this land, and I am soaking it up like rain in the desert. And, you know, I got on that list thing 18 months ago. I saw the power of that. I have learned from many people who are doing innovative and creative things in marketing. And that is the thing that blows me away. Nancy and I sat down, turned on a recorder and started chatting. And we're. We've just topped 1.5 million downloads. I can't even believe. Believe it.

Bam. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, I know.

I can't even believe it. And we reach out to our list, and they, you know, show up and come and support a live event we're doing. So it is really a remarkable thing. But, you know, here's the thing. What I love so much about it is it's the idea that we are all the curators of what comes into our lives now. It isn't like, you know, when I grew up, there was three channels and was it VHS, UHF, that got maybe channel 32. And that was if you wanted to watch TV, you turned it on. And whatever came, came, you know, now, and even when I was, you know, working every day in television, there were limitations to what is possible. Now you have all the reins to decide and the freedom that gives us as entrepreneurs to create specific content for a specific audience. And honestly, Mike, I'm not doing this to create a content company. It's the only conversation I want to have. The fact that other people want to have it too is kind of like frosting on the cake.

I am so with you on that. That is exactly. I can't agree more. And the funny thing is, is, so I'll just reveal this personally. So I've been doing online marketing in some way, shape or form for. For basically 30 years. And I had a marketing agency and then online businesses and software companies. And I did it. And in some ways I loved it. But I was terror driven. It was fear of running out, missing out, being left behind. And when I made a choice that I was going to stop all that and broadcast for broadcast sake, and when I talk to people who've really made it as they built their platforms, especially podcasting, you got to expect 18 to 24 months. And you've just got to accept the fact that this is going to be a sacrifice. It's going to be a big, long give. And there's something truly beautiful about playing that long game and doing what you're doing right now and having the freedom to do that and it is possible for anyone and just having the courage to continue the conversation, even if it seems no one's listening.

For sure. Well, and really. And that's why you do it. You do it because it's the conversation you want to have. Because I'm reminding myself every day what matters to me now. And I find as many ways through a digital platform, through a podcast, through writing a book, through, you know, coming on a pod, somebody else's podcast. I am reminding myself every day what I want to be inspired to do, how I need to really tend to my energy field, how I need to slip on my magical glasses and really look at life through the lens of what is possible. And they're. They're all my little. My little hacks, my little hacks.

It's beautiful. So. Well, I think what I'd like to do is, first of all, don't go anywhere while we wrap this up. But one of the things I always ask at the end of every interview is, what's your ask? Aside from go grab a copy of the Beautiful? No. Definitely subscribe to the Sherry and Nancy show and visit your website, which is the pillarlife.com learn more, join the list. But what other ass do you have? This is a great time to do that. And the listeners who listen to this podcast are mover shakers and influencers themselves.

Oh, my gosh. Those are all my things. Listen, I would. I would love for everybody to read the book. I just got picked as Apple's must listen audiobook. Wow. I recorded it myself.

Who did you have to bribe for that?

I know. I went into a booth for three days and I just got that news, like literally last night. And I thought, wow. Because when I was in the booth, I'm like, do I suck at this? I mean, I know I do the podcast, but am I just awful? Because I really tried to give it some dramatic judge. So, yes, it got picked as a must listen. So if you like to listen to books on tape, that. That would be a really great thing and I'd love for people to. To read the book, have a free companion workbook. And you can find all about that atthe pillar life.com and check out Nancy and I started episode one. Episode one was Nancy literally moved into my house for a year while we cooked up our big middle of life reinvention.

Well, I'm still stuck on your Zush.

Yeah, that was great. I haven't heard that before. I don't know where it comes from, but I like that. I'm going to use that.

I know. I think it might be Yiddish.

It's almost Yiddish. I'm going to check on that actually, because. Yeah, I love it. I love it. Well, that's a great place to wrap this up. And I know you and I are going to be playing again soon. I'm going to see you at the next TLC meeting and beyond, but don't go anywhere. I'm going to talk to you for a couple more moments, but in the meantime, go over again, head over, grab a copy of the book, buy it for especially for the woman in your life, no matter where they are in their transformation, in their shift. Check out the Sherry and Nancy show and the pillarlife.com and while you're at it, certainly share this episode with everyone. You know, head on over to itunes and give us a comment, some thumbs up some stars. If you enjoyed this episode, talk about it because I read every single one of them. So Sherry Salata, thank you so much.

Thanks Mike. Thanks everybody.

All right, that's it for this episode. But but don't go anywhere because my co host Dan Sullivan and I have a really easy ask for you. Will you open up your podcast app and give us a five star review and leave a comment about what you love about it most? Dan and I read every review and it'll take less than a minute. And while you're at it, share this episode or tell someone about it because the best way to grow an audience is by word of mouth. Now if you want detail, detailed show notes, photos, links to all the cool stuff we talked about, or want to ask a question, have a show idea, or want to leave a voice message for Dan or me, just head over to capabilityamplifier.com for all this and lots of free goodies including copies of our best selling books. Now this is Mike Koenigs, so on behalf of Dan and me, thanks for subscribing and listening and we'll see you on the next episode.

Sam.